================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:33:14 EST To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: Ebay problem??? and advise ================= To: "obc" Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:39:03 -0600 From: "ken goetsch" Subject: Trade list------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: ken goetsch To: oct Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:37 AM Subject: Trade list------------------ Hey Guys; I was just getting to this email..sent to me a couple of days ago....................Occasionally I get these ..WHAT DO YOU DO????????????????? I was just going to delete it..............but then I got to thinking...[dangerous]................... My feelings are if you cant properly introduce yourself.and tell me a little about yourself.and how you got my email.....I don't want anything to do with you...Am I out of line??????........ Ken Goetsch What types of things do you have for trade? I know that I have things from your lists to trade you. Thanks, Rick See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ================= To: "obc" Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:47:01 -0600 From: "ken goetsch" Subject: Re: [SPAM][OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise In my opinion, the card was misrepresented and you have every right to complain to him........But.here is where you have to "chime in"........To me itdepends on what card you got,what price, and how bad you "want or need it"..........If it was up to me.And I really did not "need" the card all that much...I would make my complaint.If its card I could live with.ok..Make himsend you a couple of extra cards to make up for the mix-up.or get a partial Just my take ..... Ken Goetsch Hello all, I have a minor ebay problem. Last week I purchased a card from a seller, carefully read the item description and made an offer for the card...the seller made a counter offer which i accepted. this is how the Item description read "The card is in fair condition. The front is in good shape, with some minor scuffing on it. The back has some paper loss were it appears to have been glued to something. There is also a small =BC inch tear on the middle right hand side. Still from the front a great looking card of one of baseball=E2=99s best all-time. Please look at the picture and e-mail any questions. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!! " When i got the card yesterday my wife called me to tell me it had more then 1 tear, it had 3, and the card had 6 holes in it (probably from staples)I just emailed him I am giving him some sort of benefit of the doubt, but by far this card would not rate fair...... am I wrong ? am i being too picky? or do you think i was right in sending him an email? Now I also paid through pay pal, how long should I wait until this guy emails me back b-4 I contact paypal? as usual the seller didn't leave feedback yet. Have I started down the right path to resolve this? Please any and all info would be greatly appreciated THANK YOU ALL and Happy New Year Rob "The FIREMAN" Gioia See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:12:57 EST To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: brockhattox@cs.com Subject: Directions to Brock's house For everyone who would like to come to the Gulf Coast OBC gathering at Brock's house on January 26, here are the driving directions: Gulf Shores, AL is on State Hwy 59. From I-65, take exit 37 and head south. From I-10, take exit 44 and head south. Take AL 59 through Loxley, Robertsdale and Foley. About 3 miles south of Foley, start looking for the Target. (Yes, we do have a competitor for Walmart in Lower Alabama, but only snowbirds go there...) Turn left at the light at Target and follow the street back into Craft Farms. After passing the McCollough Institute (a place for rich folks from Mumgumry to get their faces lifted), you will come to a large traffic circle. Proceed 180 degrees around the circle and you will see the Estates sign. Our house is about a mile down on the left, 636 Estates Drive. It has a tin roof with a little rust and a front porch with a swing, (but no sofa or washing machine). Our house phone is 251-967-4617, cell is 251-978-1875. I am expecting everyone in early afternoon and will provide supper and a bunk for those who don't want to leave after supper. I will have plenty of beer, and maybe a margarita, ready. Happy New Year, ================= To: , Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:48:54 -0700 From: "Walker" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise That does it. I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong with the eVil bay. NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the buyer has paid. After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation has ended. The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flaw of eBay, and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this. Are you with me? Honestly, I don't care if you are or not; I'm going to bust yer life! ----- Original Message ----- From: DaPatriot1@aol.com To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise Hello all, I have a minor ebay problem. Last week I purchased a card from a seller, carefully read the item description and made an offer for the card...the seller made a counter offer which i accepted. this is how the Item description read "The card is in fair condition. The front is in good shape, with some minor scuffing on it. The back has some paper loss were it appears to have been glued to something. There is also a small =BC inch tear on the middleright hand side. Still from the front a great looking card of one of baseball=E2=99s best all-time. Please look at the picture and e-mail any questions. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!! " When i got the card yesterday my wife called me to tell me it had more then1 tear, it had 3, and the card had 6 holes in it (probably from staples) Ijust emailed him I am giving him some sort of benefit of the doubt, but byfar this card would not rate fair...... am I wrong ? am i being too picky?or do you think i was right in sending him an email? Now I also paid through pay pal, how long should I wait until this guy emails me back b-4 I contact paypal? as usual the seller didn't leave feedback yet. Have I started down the right path to resolve this? Please any and all info would be greatly appreciated THANK YOU ALL and Happy New Year Rob "The FIREMAN" Gioia See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:41:21 -0500 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Is this 1940 Play Ball card on eBay item the real thing? This 1940 Play Ball #119 Pete Alexander looks way to sharp to be real to me. I remember old emails about a conversation about 1939/1949 Play Ball reprints but I cannot locate it. Any help is appreciated. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320202363960 Grover Alexander 1940 Play Ball #119 clean (see scans) ================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:04:53 EST To: kshoes@charter.net, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Trade list------------------ ken: typically, these are from folks who see your lists, know that they may have dupes from sets you are collecting, but dont want to take the time to search your lists. they generally send the same email out to dozens of folks at the same time. i usually respond by saying that i really appreciated their looking at my lists, and that i have hundred of dupes from 1952-2000, or whatever it is. if they would like to tell me what they have found from my lists, and a copy of their wantlist, i would be happy to take a look. In a message dated 1/1/2008 8:39:30 AM Central Standard Time, kshoes@ charter.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: _ken goetsch_ (mailto:kshoes@charter.net) To: _oct_ (mailto:OCTraders@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:37 AM Subject: Trade list-------- Trade li Hey Guys; I was just getting to this email..sent to me a couple of days ago.........I was jusI was just getting to this email..sent to me a couple of I was j I was just going to delete it..........I was just going to delete it.........I was justI was jusI was jusI My feelings are if you cant properly introduce yourself.and tell me a little about yourself.and how you got my email.....I don't want anything to do with you...Am I out of line??????..My fee Ken Goetsch What types of things do you have for trade? I know that I have things from your lists to trade you. Thanks, Rick See AOL's _top rated recipes_ (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) and _easy ways to stay in shape_ (http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003) for winter. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ================= Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 06:35:29 -0600 To: DaPatriot1@aol.com From: Yaz Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise I think it is going to depend on what you paid for the card. Since, as a basic rule, (my rule!), the top amount to pay for a 'fair' card would be 5% of NM price and a 'poor' card would be 1-2%, the difference would not be as great as if you paid for a NM card and got an EX instead. If you got a card for a poor price, it really doesn't matter if it had 3 holes or 6, it's still poor and the difference between poor and fair isn't much, though by the description given, it sounds like a poor card to me even before the extra holes and tears you describe. One more thing to consider. The seller might not be used to dealing cards and may be using the word 'fair' literally and not as a baseball card descriptive term. Greg (yaz) DaPatriot1@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > I have a minor ebay problem. Last week I purchased a card from a > seller, carefully read the item description and made an offer for the > card...the seller made a counter offer which i accepted. > this is how the Item description read > /"The card is in fair condition. The front is in good shape, with > some minor scuffing on it. The back has some paper loss were it > appears to have been glued to something. There is also a small ¼ inch > tear on the middle right hand side. Still from the front a great > looking card of one of baseball’s best all-time. Please look at the > picture and e-mail any questions. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!! "/ > When i got the card yesterday my wife called me to tell me it had more > then 1 tear, it had 3, and the card had 6 holes in it (probably from > staples) I just emailed him I am giving him some sort of benefit of > the doubt, but by far this card would not rate fair...... am I wrong ? > am i being too picky? or do you think i was right in sending him an email? > Now I also paid through pay pal, how long should I wait until this > guy emails me back b-4 I contact paypal? as usual the seller didn't > leave feedback yet. Have I started down the right path to resolve this? > Please any and all info would be greatly appreciated > THANK YOU ALL and Happy New Year > Rob /"The FIREMAN"/ Gioia > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See AOL's top rated recipes > and > easy ways to stay in shape > > for winter. ================= Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:55:10 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Massimo" Subject: Any Coin collectors out there? I do not collect coins but I have the following in my possession: 1926 SILVER PEACE DOLLAR 1964 Kennedy Half-Dollar Let me know if you are interested. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:41:24 -0800 From: marcpeter@juno.com Subject: 1959 Playoff...? Hello to all and Happy New Year! I have been searching the Internet for some information on the 1959 National League Playoff between the Dodgers and Braves. I hope to be able to find some box scores and perhaps a game description or two - I've had no luck. I thought about it and realized that the best source for this information might be right here -- with my OBC Brethren and If anyone out there can point me in a direction I would appreciate it a Peter / marcpeter ================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:45:53 EST To: marcpeter@juno.com From: directorth@aol.com Subject: Re: 1959 playoff Go to _http://www.retrosheet.org/_ (http://www.retrosheet.org/) , & on the menu on the left-hand side click on "tiebreaker playoffs" - you'll get a list of all tie-breakers, & you can click on whichever game you want to get a box score & a summary. Another really neat retro site! **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ================= Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:47:25 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "jimbo777777" Subject: Exhibit Lot on Ebay - 56 cards Ebay Item number: 330201215892 contains 56 cards from the 1947-66 Exhibit set. One of them, Sam Mele, is one of the last six I need to complete the set, so I'm going to be going after this lot. If anyone wants to split the lot with me, let me know, I'm sure we can work something out. ================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:37:10 -0500 To: marcpeter@juno.com From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: 1959 playoff How about checking the 1960 Topps set? Check #385 thu #391 for the World Series boxscores on the backs of the cards. On Jan 3, 2008 8:45 AM, wrote: > Peter, > Go to http://www.retrosheet.org/, & on the menu on the left-hand side click > on "tiebreaker playoffs" - you'll get a list of all tie-breakers, & you can > click on whichever game you want to get a box score & a summary. > Another really neat retro site! > Enjoy! > Tom > ________________________________ > See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ================= Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:42:48 EST To: srittenberg@gmail.com, marcpeter@juno.com From: directorth@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: 1959 playoff Oh, yeah, Steve, sure - rub it in for those of us who have a hard time reading the tiny print :-) Just kidding - I hadn't thought about checking the backs of the cards. Great idea. Retrosheet is pretty cool though - they have a tremendous database of old box scores & summaries on-line. A great way to kill a few afternoons. In a message dated 1/3/2008 9:37:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, srittenberg@gmail.com writes: How about checking the 1960 Topps set? Check #385 thu #391 for the World Series boxscores on the backs of the cards. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= To: Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 00:47:17 -0500 From: Mac Wubben Subject: please share your thoughts on the value... What do you guys think this is worth? Love to hear what everyone thinks. Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icidchick_wlhmtextlink1_dec ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 22:30:20 -0800 From: marcpeter@juno.com Subject: 1959 Playoff...? Wow! I knew I could count on you guys! Thanks for the wealth of information and ideas. I will be printing some of this out -- saving other bits and reading on line over the next week or so. I just started a new job so my spare time is short but it will settle down and I can get to the pleasure of research and hopefully some more writing. Funny how there was less information in my Dodger books than what you guys gave me -- and the Dodgers won a couple of games they were not expected to win in amazing ways..! Thank you! Father Pat, Bill, Bob, Jim (x4), Tom, Aaron, Steve and anyone else I may have missed. It was fun coming home to all the e-mails. Peter / marcpeter ================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 03:03:37 -0800 (PST) To: Mac Wubben , obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Geno Wagner Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] please share your thoughts on the value... Mac -- I haven't looked at GOudeys for awhile, but I'd say it's probably in the $400-$500 range, depending on how bad you need it... Take Care, --- Mac Wubben wrote: > What do you guys think this is worth? > Love to hear what everyone thinks. > Thanks, > Mac > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play > Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ================= To: "'Geno Wagner'" , Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:03:00 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] please share your thoughts on the value... I would agree with Geno. I bought my #53 for $440 in 1998 or 9. It's a PSA1 and nicer on the front than that, although with a little paper loss on the back. From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geno Wagner Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:04 AM To: Mac Wubben; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] please share your thoughts on the value... Mac -- I haven't looked at GOudeys for awhile, but I'd say it's probably in the $400-$500 range, depending on how bad you need it... Take Care, --- Mac Wubben com> wrote: > What do you guys think this is worth? > Love to hear what everyone thinks. > Thanks, > Mac > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play > Chicktionary! http://club. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. ================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 06:24:14 -0800 (PST) To: Mac Wubben From: Matthew Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] please share your thoughts on the value... Hi Mac, I just bought a #53 in low-grade condition for $700. I'd say yours is slightly worse off than mine, but does come with the "benefit" of a slab, so would probably fetch around the same amount. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mac Wubben To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 4, 2008 12:47:17 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] please share your thoughts on the value... .hmmessage P What do you guys think this is worth? Love to hear what everyone thinks. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:12:33 -0500 From: "obcjohn@knology.net" Subject: Change of address I'm still in Montgomery but my address is now: John Harrell 1707 Radcliffe Rd. Montgomery, AL 36106 We moved yesterday and the new house looks like a refugee center, with boxes piled everywhere. We are, however, very happy with the move as we now have some space to store stuff and I now have a memorabilia room. It'll takesome time to get things in order but any and all are invited to visit. You'll be able to sleep in the memorabilia room, surrounded by about 100 antique Happy New year to all. ================= Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:50:56 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "T.J. Valacak" Subject: The OBC spirit This ramble is really a thank you to two fantastic OBC experiences. I have posted the tahnks, but wanted to tell the story behind the thanks. OBCers BILL ASHTON and LYNN MILLER both sent over packages this holiday season that really went above and beyond generosity. I have thanked each previously (although I didn't know it was Lynn I was thanking yesterday), but I feel this story needs to rambled. About a week before Christmas, Bill Ashton sent out an email seeking new homes for stamps. Although I do not collect stamps, I replied back to Bill to let him know that my dad did collect stamps, and I would gladly take anything that went unclaimed. Bill asked what types of stamps my dad collected, and I replied that he collected every type. I believ the day before Christmas, a package from Bill arrived. It containded what I believed to be a few thousand stamps, along with a book from 1934. On Christmas day, I handed that box over to my father. The look on his face as he opened it and went through the box was priceless. Both my sister and brother in law said I should have wrapped it up for his gift, since he enjoyed it so much. I talk to my dad almost everyday. I think he has "worked" on his stamps every day since Christmas. Thank you again Bill. Now, I switch over to Lynn. I had posted a few requests for a certain uv card on the uv server. I needed a Clay Buchholz card as part of a gift I was giving my niece - she is a diehard Red Sox fan. I have an autographed Buchholz ball and I have a ball and card display. The one problem is that I did not have a card. Of course, I waited. Our family party is tomorrow, so I figured I had time. I went to a small show on Sunday and was shutout. One guy had a few, but they were part of sets that he didn't want to break up. Yesterday, I visited two local card shops. Neither shop had one. I had also been sniped twice on ebay earlier inthe week. I had resigned myself to the fact that I would have to give the gift without the card, and just get the card at a later date. When I came home and checked yesterdays mail, there wa a small puffy. I tore it open and found 5 Buchholz cards inside. There was no note, just an ebay ID#. I tried to think if I had won a lot, and forgot about it. I checked "my ebay" - Nothing. I checked the OBC directory to match the return address - Nothing. I checked the ebay ID# to see if I might recognize a user id - Nothing. My wife was conviced it was an OBCer, and I was pretty sure myself. Today, Lynn Miller stepped forward to accept responsibility. He said he had snapped up a "Buy it Now" on ebay for me. Lynn, I will be sure to report to you the look on my nieces face tomorrow night when she opens this gift. Thank you. Both of these OBCers truly show why our group is absolutely the BEST group out there. When I joined this group in 2005, I didn't know what to expect. I can say that OBC goes above and beyond. Thanks guys! ================= Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 01:04:21 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "rrrlyons" Subject: Anyone traded with Doug Pederson ================= Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 01:51:58 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "rrrlyons" Subject: Trip to California and Arizona Does anyone live in Palm Springs I'm going there feb 15-21 and some time during that I will probably go to arizona for a day to check out spring training if teams have reported. Rick ================= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 22:09:02 -0500 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Fwd: Revised Vintage Baseball Sales list Hi All. OBC friendly dealer (and OBC member) Mark Macrae has some GREAT deals in his latest newsletter. If interested, please email Mark directly. Remember to say you are a proud member of OBC to get your discount on top of these prices. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Jan 4, 2008 3:07 AM Subject: Re: Revised Vintage Baseball Sales list To: Steve Rittenberg Hi Steve, Here is a list of some of the singles / lots. There should be something for you, or some of the OBCers. Feel free to forward the list to any of them that might be interested. There will be an OBC-discount (at least 10% from this list). On the bulk lots, some are 'one of a kind' , in other cases multiple lots are available, so feel free to inquire. Take care, Mark Macrae 1948 BOWMAN #3 Kiner (Fair) $22 #4 Mize (Fair) $10 #17 Slaughter (Good,Scuff) $15 1949 BOWMAN #46 Roberts (Fair,Stain) $20 #110 Wynn (F-G) $18 1950 BOWMAN #6 Feller (F-G,Stain) $30 #77 Snider (F-G) $40 1952 BOWMAN #17 Lopat (G-VG) $9 #27 Garagiola (G-VG,WOB) $10 #145 Mize (G-VG) $13 1953 BOWMAN #118 Martin (Good) $60 1954 BOWMAN #6 Fox (Good,Stain) $11 #15 Ashburn (Good,MBD) $12 #45 Kiner (G-VG) $9 #45 Kiner (Good,BD) $7.50 #95 Roberts (Good) $8 #138 Hodges (F-G) $8 1955 BOWMAN #10 Rizzuto (G-VG) $22 #10 Rizzuto (Good) $12 #59 Ford (Good) $15 #59 Ford (Fair) $8 #60 Slaughter (F-G) $4 #98 Gilliam (F-G,PH) $3 #103 Mathews (Good) $12 #103 Mathews (F-G) $7 #103 Mathews (Fair) $6 #179 Aaron (Good) $35 #197 Kiner (VG) $9 #197 Kiner (G-VG) $6 1952 TOPPS #11 Rizzuto (F-G) $35 #37 Snider (F-G) $60 #59 Roberts (VG,O/C) $50 #65 Slaughter (G-VG) $30 #88 Feller (F-G) $25 #88 Feller (Fair) $20 #129 Mize (Good,Corner clip) $20 #216 Ashburn (Fair,Staple holes) $20 #216 Ashburn (Fair,Back Damage) $20 1953 TOPPS #54 Feller (G-VG,Miscut) $25 #61 Wynn (Good) $18 #77 Mize (Good) $12 #138 Kell (G-VG) $17 1954 TOPPS #13 Martin (VG-Ex,WOB) $25 #15 Rosen (Ex,WOB) $5 #17 Rizzuto (Fair) $10 #20 Spahn (Good,WOB) $17 #128 Aaron (F-G) $150 #128 Aaron (Poor,Trimmed) $50 #250 Williams (F-G) $100 1955 TOPPS #2 Williams (G-VG,Writing) $125 #2 Williams (F-G) $65 #2 Williams (Fair) $50 #22 Skowron (Good) $6 #25 Podres (G-VG) $5.50 #120 Kluszewski (F-G) $8 #120 Kluszewski (Fair,Writing) $6 #124 Killebrew (Good) $40 #124 Killebrew (F-G) $30 #125 Boyer (G-VG) $18 #155 Mathews (F-G) $20 1956 TOPPS #10 Spahn (Good) $17 #107 Mathews (Good,MBD) $12 #118 Fox (Good) $15 #292 Aparicio (F-G,BD) $15 #307 Wilhelm (F-G,BD) $4 1957 TOPPS #1 Williams (G-VG) $100 #80 Hodges (G-VG) $12 #125 Kaline (F-G,Handcut) $10 #210 Campanella (VG,O/C) $45 #210 Campanella (G-VG) $35 #212 Colavito (VG,O/C) $40 #212 Colavito (Fair,WOF) $10 #250 Mathews (VG) $15 #250 Mathews (G-VG) $11 #312 Kubek (Fair) $8 #338 Bunning (Good) $25 Checklist 1/2 (P-F) $15 Checklist 2/3 (VG,Marked) $65 1958 TOPPS #25 Drysdale (G-VG) $25 #47 Maris (G-VG) $100 #100 Wynn (G-VG) $6 #150 Mantle (Fair) $80 #238 Mazeroski (G-VG) $7 #270 Spahn (G-VG) $13 #270 Spahn (F-G,WOF) $6 #307 Robinson (G-VG) $28 #343 Cepeda (G-VG) $22 #368 Colavito (VG) $15 #484 Robinson (G-VG) $9 1959 TOPPS #10 Mantle (Good) $150 #20 Snider (G-VG) $14 #30 Fox (VG) $9 #30 Fox (F-G,WOF) $3 #40 Spahn (VG) $30 #40 Spahn (F-G,PH) $9 #149 Bunning (VG) $6 #150 Musial (VG) $45 #150 Musial (F-G,WOB) $15 #180 Berra (F-G,WOF) $8 #212 Fence Busters (G-VG) $17 #338 Anderson (VG) $18 #352 Roberts (VG) $6 #352 Roberts (G-VG) $4.50 #360 Kaline (VG) $20 #360 Kaline (G-VG) $18 #387 Drysdale (G-VG) $11 #420 Colavito (VG) $9 #420 Colavito (G-VG) $7 #420 Colavito (Good) $4.50 #435 Robinson (VG,Stain) $15 #461 Mantle (VG) $38 #463 Kaline (VG) $9 #463 Kaline (Good,WOB) $5 #470 Musial (G-VG,O/C) $7 #509 Cash (G-VG) $17 #510 Yankees (G-VG,Unmarked) $25 #515 Killebrew (G-VG,WOB) $25 #515 Killebrew (Good) $19 1960 TOPPS #10 Banks (VG) $15 #50 Kaline (G-VG) $11 #50 Kaline (Good,WOB) $6 BULK LOTS Generally speaking, the newer the cards, the nicer the condition. From '67 back, figure the cards top out at G/VG, '68-71 , VG & less, 72-78 VG+ & less. Most of the 80's-date cards are Ex-Mt, but allow for a few lesser cards (which are usually not counted in the total). 1954 Bowman BB (5 Diff) $10 1955 Bowman BB (5 Diff) $10 1957 Topps BB (16 Diff) $8 1959 Topps BB (50 Diff) $25 , 100 Assorted $35 1960 Topps BB (18 Diff) $9, 100 Assorted $35 1961 Topps BB (10 Diff) $4 1962 Topps BB (19 Diff) $6 1965 Topps BB (20 Diff ) $7 1966/67 Topps BB (57 Diff) $14 1968 Topps BB (25 Diff) $5 1969 Topps BB (20 Diff) $4, 100 Assorted $17 1970 OPeeChee BB (20 Diff) $2 , 100 Assorted $8 1971 Topps BB (30 Diff) $3, 100 Assorted $8 1972 Topps BB (75 Diff) $8, 300 Assorted $18 1973 Topps BB (75 Diff) $8 , 300 Assorted $18 1974 Topps BB (100 Diff) $10, 500 Assorted $30 1976-78 Topps BB (33 Diff) $1, 500 Assorted $10 1981-Date (500 diff) $10, 5000 Assorted $13 Due to the varied shapes & sizes, I'll quote postage for each specific order. Thanks for your interest. Mark Macrae Box 2111 Castro Valley,Ca 94546 ================= Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:09:27 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "mikesportsfan" Subject: FOOT gathering? Some OBCers may not appreciate that even though the Sports Illustrated may not think Detroit is Hockey Town anymore, to many of us it still is. On Saturday, January 19, there is a college hockey doubleheader at the Palace. I have some coupons to get Lower Level tickets for only $10 each. The first game features my Alma Mater Wayne State facing off against Niagara. The second game is a couple of teams known as Michigan vs Notre Dame. Since I did not make the GLI this year, I have only been to 1 college game at Michigan so far this season. Is anyone else available and interested? I expect to go to a Pistons game on the 18th, so I can get the tickets early. Please RSVP to me as early as possible so we can make plans. Mike Rich cell: (248) 709-2235 ================= To: , Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 21:03:39 -0800 From: "Brian Lindholme" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] please share your thoughts on the value... But what do I know? OBC Forever, ----- Original Message ----- From: Mac Wubben To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] please share your thoughts on the value... What do you guys think this is worth? Love to hear what everyone thinks. Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! Check it out! ================= Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 06:13:13 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "uthminsta1" Subject: MAJOR crazy idea... anyone wanna try it? Hey everyone, I've got an idea. I've been thinking about this for a while, but wasn't sure how to "propose" the idea to everyone. Seeing as how we're starting a new year, I thought I'd throw out a crazy idea: I'd like to start an organized process for sending out cards to each other, and maybe scratching off some of our wantlists. I'd like to have others join in the fun, so any ideas or help would be appreciated. But even if no one else participates, I'm gonna give it a go, and see what I can offer. Here's how I see it: Each week (or so), we "feature" a particular year of cards. I will list all my availables from that year, as well as any wantlists I have for that same year. Anyone else who wishes to participate is welcome to do the same. I would think it would be better to do this directly through the server, so everyone has access to the wantlists and availables. Then we just do what we always do - look at each other's lists, send stuff, and request stuff! But this way we're only looking at a small slice at a time, but of several people's lists at once. And then when there's no activity for a while, we'll just move to the next year back. I feel so far behind in what I send out versus what everyone sends me, and I've definitely not been very organized with my collection. I wanted to come up with something that was going to (for lack of a better term) FORCE me to get it in gear, get organized, and (hopefully) send out a few thousand cards. So... I'm starting with 1980 and working backward (I'm doing this on the UV server as well, starting with 1981 and moving forward). I'm not by any means advocating that we don't trade other years of stuff, just that we have a "featured" year that we're working with. What do you think? Here goes... 1980 TOPPS - about a thousand. This is a pretty short section here... PLEASE someone need some of these or I'm gonna look really stupid doing all this. 1980 BURGER KING PITCH HIT & RUN: 2 (Carlton) 5 (Koosman) 17 (R.Jackson) 21 (Rose) 32 (Taveras). Missing 5 cards. Thanks to Spike Glidden for the near set! 1980 FRANCHISE BABE RUTH: 1-23 25-28 30-35 37-50 52-57 59-74 76-80. Missing 74 cards. 1980 TOPPS 387 Fred Stanley yellow letters. *****OTHER SETS I HAVEN'T STARTED: 1980 BURGER KING, O-PEE-CHEE, TCMA 1914 BRAVES, TCMA 1957 BRAVES, TOPPS/OPC PROMOTION CARDS, TOPPS SUPER. *****OTHER SETS FROM WHICH I'M ONLY COLLECTING SPECIFIC PLAYERS: (PLEASE NOTE: I have no idea how hard some of this stuff may be to find, and it's really not nearly as high a priority as actual set building. That's why none of this is on my online wantlist.) 1980 GIANTS EUREKA FEDERAL SAVINGS: 5 Willie McCovey. 1980 GIANTS POLICE: 44 Willie McCovey. 1980 GIANTS TEAM ISSUE: 18 Willie McCovey. 1980 KELLOGGS: 2 24 26 50. 1980 LAUGHLIN 300/400/500: 2 6 10 12 14 16 18 20 21 23 25 27 29 30. In fact, I think this might be a fun set to go for. Anyone have a 1980 LAUGHLIN FAMOUS FEATS: 4 6 10 14 16 23. 1980 MANTLE RESERVE LIFE: is this a 1-card set? 1980 MARCHANT EXHIBITS: 4 9 10 15 18 19. 1980 MARCHANT EXHIBITS HOF: 12 14 31. 1980 ORIOLES POSTCARDS: 21 24. 1980 PADRES FAMILY FUN 17 Bob Shirley. 1980 PHILLIES POSTCARDS 27 Mike Schmidt. 1980 ENQUIRER REDS: 15 George Foster. 1980 TCMA 1961 REDS: 4 Frank Robinson. 1980 TCMA TEAM GREATS: CUBS 10 12. DODGERS 1. GIANTS 1 9. PIRATES 7. TIGERS 4. YANKEES 1 5 6. 1980 TWINS POSTCARDS: 13 Harmon Killebrew. 1980 YANKEES PHOTO ALBUM: 12 Reggie Jackson. Sheesh. That's a lot. Once again, the emphasis in my collection is on sets, not players... ================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:46:23 EST To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: biggies@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MAJOR crazy idea... anyone wanna try it? I think that is a fabulous idea! **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:02:36 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Mike Mroz" Subject: Re: MAJOR crazy idea... anyone wanna try it? I'll give a shot at following your lead and see what happens... I'm not sure if these posts should be put here on on the Wantlist message board, so I'll leave it here for now. *****1980 AVAILABLES 1980 Topps - 26, 80, 125, 130, 176, 321, 338, 360, 373, 451, 468, 504, 572, 603 1980 Kellogg's - 6, 10, 18, 19, 21, 23, 33, 34, 38, 42, 45, 46, 48, 50, 54, 55, 58, 59 1980 Fleer - 2, 11, 30, 31, 62 1980-81 Topps - 2 ***** 1980 WANTS 1980 Topps - 2 77 250 265 482 544 651 1980 Kellogg's - 1 2 13 14 15 20 22 24 25 26 27 29 32 35 41 51 52 60 Mike Mroz ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:33:47 -0500 From: typecard@aol.com Subject: Re:Anyone traded with Doug Pederson I've traded with Doug several times. He's excellent. More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ================= To: "vct" Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0500 From: "ant" Subject: 1963 topps back colors Hello All, Does anyone know the deal with the yellow backs & the orange backs? ================= To: "vct" , Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:50:52 -0500 From: "ant" Subject: 1976-77 hopps wants & dupes Hello All, I am in need of: 1976-77 topps ex condition upgrades to exmt #48(checklist),60(maravich) ,127 (evering as) 1976-77 second set vg up #2,10(lanier),13,23,25,50(barry),54,57(walton),70,81,82,85,90(havlicek),109,123,124,130(maraich),140(mcadoo) I have the following in dupe with vg/ex avg: 1976-77 topps #3,5,7,8,12,15,18,26,27,28,33,35,46, 51,52,53,62,63,84,92,94(issel),95,97,102,106,112,115,117,120(hayes),128,129,131,132(barry),134,139 ,141,142 this includes many unlisted stars & AS cards Anthony Arbeeny ================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 11:00:56 EST To: dugouttraders@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: lost emails virtually all of my emails that come through the yahoo server, or have the yahoo server name in the subject line are being thrown into the spam folder. i mistakenly erased all of those this morning, so if you wrote me in the past 24 hours, there is a chance i did not see it. i would appreciate you sorry for the inconvenience Gary Mandell 3930 North Pine Grove Avenue # 3108 Chicago, IL 60613-5518 Member: OBC, OCT, DT, TB **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= To: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:15:28 -0600 From: "George Vrechek" Subject: Re:MAJOR crazy idea... anyone wanna try it? and names uthminsta1 suggested we try something new which sounds like a good idea. (On the subject of something new, how about adding our names to the emails? While I've been in the group almost 9 years I don't have a good memory for associating someone's email address with their actual name.) We might clutter up "ramblings" with postings so maybe "wantlist" is a more logical place to post haves and needs. If we are just posting 1980 haves and wants, I have 5 measly 1980 duplicates: 110 160 200 322 and 513 that anyone is welcomed to have. Like most other nutty variation collectors I need: 1980 Topps 164 Pryor no name vs name in blue, 343 Vail break in left border and Yellow name variations: 9 Braun, 387 Wathan 537 Stanley, 597 Poquette. If you don't recognize some of these as variations, check out the 2008 SCD Catalog. George Vrechek ================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 13:47:16 EST To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: biggies@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MAJOR crazy idea... anyone wanna try it? I have only 3 1980 dupes. They are: #100 Johnny Bench #393 Ozzie Smith #700 Rod Carew.................... 3 pretty good ones. LMK, Bob Bannon **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:07:12 EST To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, obc-wantlist@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: NEW YEAR Waiver wire Hello All, Well my are is out of the cast....might need surgery but at least I'm not in a cast...I'm putting a few cards up for claiming for the new year. Please add you address in the email 1951 Topps redback #33 1954 bowman # 11 1954 Topps # 46 1955 Bowman #104 1955 Topps #'s 20/32/97/119/121/132/136 1956 Topps #s (all trimmed) 82/116/119/137 1957 Topps # 94 1958 Topps #s139/447/466 1960 Topps 23 1961 Topps #s 123/231 1962 Post 79 1963 Topps # 94/272 1964 Topps #s31/54/66/165/253/277/392 1965 Topps #s 39/43/46/47/189/285/490 1966 Topps #s 3/6/8/11/37/74 1967 Topps # 190/192/196/203/278/277 1968 Topps 384/448 1971 topps 94/349/457/463/484/616/702/752 Rob "The FIREMAN" **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:47:25 EST To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, obc-wantlist@yahoogroups.com From: LUURSCJG@aol.com Subject: Gremlin Help I am just redoing my card onto a new software (at least for me) I found Gremlins have replace my 1961 Post box set with company cards if any one has 1 47 and 71 in box and need company of said # i am willing to trade. If any one is nuts to start company set i have 3 to star you out on if I dont need to trade **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= To: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:07:12 -0800 From: "Brian Lindholme" Subject: Temporary Interruption : 2007 Card collectors? OBC World, pardon the interruption... As announced a couple months ago, the familytoad baseball card collectors have grown from 1 (me) to 2 ( me and son John) We discovered that on the back of the 2007 Upper Deck, Goudey and Fleer (maybe others) there is a short 4-5 alphanumeric code in a box where you can chart your cards on www.kids.upperdeck.com. There are points that you can enter to win prizes, albeit you need an awfullot of points to redeem anything valuable. Since John just started collecting, this has helped keep interest in the sets for him. Are any of you newer card collectors doing this program to collect points and track your collection? If so, shoot us an email and we can talk or trade. If any of you just want to donate your points, you could email me the codesand we'd enter them. Not as fun as getting the cards, but it's within the rules. Back to your regulary scheduled programming... And THANKS!!! OBC Forever ================= Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:32:27 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "uthminsta1" Subject: suggestions for the year-by-year project A couple of suggestions I've received since last night, and I think we should go with: 1. Put all wants and available posts related to this year-by-year project in the WANTLIST server instead of the ramblings server. 2. Be sure to include your name and address. I totally forgot. ================= Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:38:23 -0500 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: A project similar to the year-by-year project Here's a project I've been working on for years without making progress. Its similar to Aaron Shirley's year-by-year project but with some twists. First, for my test case, I've set it up for specific sets, or groups of sets. Second, its web-based, not email based. That means the page will be around next year so I don't have to search emails or recreate it...Eventually I want to get pages like this up on the OBC website. Third, I'm going to be gathering the information from you (and pulling from the directory) until I figure out how to do that automatically. The concept works when there are a limited number of collectors and not much activity for the set(s). If someone wants to build a similar page for another year, I can teach you how. I expect to update the pages I build monthly. Here's a real quick preview with a cover page and information about OBC collectors of BATMAN sets. POW! ZOWIE!! http://srittenberg.googlepages.com/ Let me know what you think. ================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 03:20:34 -0800 (PST) To: Steve Rittenberg , From: Geno Wagner Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A project similar to the year-by-year project Steve -- That's pretty slick! We've come along way since I used to keep a binder of all 30-40 OBC wantlists and take it to shows with me! Take Care, --- Steve Rittenberg wrote: > Here's a project I've been working on for years > without making > progress. Its similar to Aaron Shirley's > year-by-year project but > with some twists. First, for my test case, I've > set it up for > specific sets, or groups of sets. Second, its > web-based, not email > based. That means the page will be around next year > so I don't have > to search emails or recreate it...Eventually I want > to get pages like > this up on the OBC website. Third, I'm going to be > gathering the > information from you (and pulling from the > directory) until I figure > out how to do that automatically. The concept > works when there are a > limited number of collectors and not much activity > for the set(s). > If someone wants to build a similar page for another > year, I can teach > you how. I expect to update the pages I build > monthly. > Here's a real quick preview with a cover page and > information about > OBC collectors of BATMAN sets. POW! ZOWIE!! > http://srittenberg.googlepages.com/ > Let me know what you think. > Steve Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:29:49 EST To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, obc-wantlist@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: These Guys Still Havent Been CLaimed....SO CLAIM These are whats left, these cards are STILL up for claiming CLAIM AWAY Feel Free Please add you address in the email 1955 Topps #'s /32/97//132/136 1956 Topps #s (all trimmed) 82/116/119/137 1958 Topps #s/447/466 1960 Topps 23 1961 Topps #s 123/231 1962 Post 79 1963 Topps # 94/272 1964 Topps #s31//66//277/ 1965 Topps #s 39/43/46/47/189//490 1966 Topps #s 3/6/8/11/37/74 1967 Topps # 190//203/278/277 1969 Topps 384/448 1971 topps 94/349/463/484/616/ Rob "The FIREMAN" **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:26:38 EST To: wguthrie@axint.net, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, DaPatriot1@aol.com From: mikesportsfan@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise I agree completely with you on this. I have had this discussion with a Selelr more than once. Any Seller that says they will leave feedback for me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported. It is blackmail. Mike Rich In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, wguthrie@axint.net writes: > That does it. I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong with > the eVil bay. NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the > buyer has paid. After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation has > ended. The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flaw of eBay, > and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this. > Are you with me? Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= To: , Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:29:55 -0500 From: "Jim Beauchemin" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise Count me in, absolutely. The ebay administration is a joke, and I think it's high time they heard from their membership en masse! ----- Original Message ----- From: mikesportsfan@aol.com To: wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; DaPatriot1@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise I agree completely with you on this. I have had this discussion with a Selelr more than once. Any Seller that says they will leave feedbackfor me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported. It is blackmail. Mike Rich In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, wguthrie@axint.net That does it. I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong with the eVil bay. NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the buyer has paid. After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation has ended. The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flawof eBay, and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this. Are you with me? Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489 ================= To: Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 16:58:46 -0500 From: Mac Wubben Subject: Rcent Thanks (some may be dupes!) Recent arrivals... Andy Cook sends some tall basketballers. I have been thinking about starting these for a long time. Thanks Andy! Joshua Levine sends along three t207's...I have been toying with the idea of starting this set too, but it won't likely appear on the wantlist for a while yet. Thanks Joshua! Joel Freedman sends a small pile of 60 fleer cards...including some HOF'ers. Thanks Joel! Bob Donaldson lets me raid his 54 bowman set...knocking about half off of my list. This set might the next to transition to near complete (and move up in the priority list). Thanks Bob! Thanks everyone! Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocidTXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ================= Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:01:55 -0500 To: "uthminsta1" ,OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sean McGowan Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MAJOR crazy idea... anyone wanna try it? We could have the "featured year" announced on the rablings server and then do all the posting etc on the wants server... I think it is a good idea. I have about 100 80 topps dupes and no real biggies. One idea might be to do only even years or every 3rd year so that we get through era's quicker and then come back and do the other years, or, just do 2 years at a time. This could be fun. At 01:13 AM 1/5/2008, uthminsta1 wrote: >Hey everyone, I've got an idea. I've been thinking about this for a >while, but wasn't sure how to "propose" the idea to everyone. Seeing >as how we're starting a new year, I thought I'd throw out a crazy idea: >I'd like to start an organized process for sending out cards to each >other, and maybe scratching off some of our wantlists. I'd like to >have others join in the fun, so any ideas or help would be >appreciated. But even if no one else participates, I'm gonna give it >a go, and see what I can offer. >Here's how I see it: Each week (or so), we "feature" a particular >year of cards. I will list all my availables from that year, as well >as any wantlists I have for that same year. Anyone else who wishes to >participate is welcome to do the same. I would think it would be >better to do this directly through the server, so everyone has access >to the wantlists and availables. Then we just do what we always do - >look at each other's lists, send stuff, and request stuff! But this >way we're only looking at a small slice at a time, but of several >people's lists at once. And then when there's no activity for a >while, we'll just move to the next year back. >I feel so far behind in what I send out versus what everyone sends me, >and I've definitely not been very organized with my collection. I >wanted to come up with something that was going to (for lack of a >better term) FORCE me to get it in gear, get organized, and >(hopefully) send out a few thousand cards. >So... I'm starting with 1980 and working backward (I'm doing this on >the UV server as well, starting with 1981 and moving forward). >I'm not by any means advocating that we don't trade other years of >stuff, just that we have a "featured" year that we're working with. >What do you think? Here goes... >1980 TOPPS - about a thousand. This is a pretty short section here... >PLEASE someone need some of these or I'm gonna look really stupid >doing all this. >1980 BURGER KING PITCH HIT & RUN: 2 (Carlton) 5 (Koosman) 17 >(R.Jackson) 21 (Rose) 32 (Taveras). Missing 5 cards. Thanks to Spike >Glidden for the near set! >1980 FRANCHISE BABE RUTH: 1-23 25-28 30-35 37-50 52-57 59-74 76-80. >Missing 74 cards. >1980 TOPPS 387 Fred Stanley yellow letters. >*****OTHER SETS I HAVEN'T STARTED: >1980 BURGER KING, O-PEE-CHEE, TCMA 1914 BRAVES, TCMA 1957 BRAVES, >TOPPS/OPC PROMOTION CARDS, TOPPS SUPER. >*****OTHER SETS FROM WHICH I'M ONLY COLLECTING SPECIFIC PLAYERS: >(PLEASE NOTE: I have no idea how hard some of this stuff may be to >find, and it's really not nearly as high a priority as actual set >building. That's why none of this is on my online wantlist.) >1980 GIANTS EUREKA FEDERAL SAVINGS: 5 Willie McCovey. >1980 GIANTS POLICE: 44 Willie McCovey. >1980 GIANTS TEAM ISSUE: 18 Willie McCovey. >1980 KELLOGGS: 2 24 26 50. >1980 LAUGHLIN 300/400/500: 2 6 10 12 14 16 18 20 21 23 25 27 29 30. >In fact, I think this might be a fun set to go for. Anyone have a >1980 LAUGHLIN FAMOUS FEATS: 4 6 10 14 16 23. >1980 MANTLE RESERVE LIFE: is this a 1-card set? >1980 MARCHANT EXHIBITS: 4 9 10 15 18 19. >1980 MARCHANT EXHIBITS HOF: 12 14 31. >1980 ORIOLES POSTCARDS: 21 24. >1980 PADRES FAMILY FUN 17 Bob Shirley. >1980 PHILLIES POSTCARDS 27 Mike Schmidt. >1980 ENQUIRER REDS: 15 George Foster. >1980 TCMA 1961 REDS: 4 Frank Robinson. >1980 TCMA TEAM GREATS: CUBS 10 12. DODGERS 1. GIANTS 1 9. PIRATES >7. TIGERS 4. YANKEES 1 5 6. >1980 TWINS POSTCARDS: 13 Harmon Killebrew. >1980 YANKEES PHOTO ALBUM: 12 Reggie Jackson. >Sheesh. That's a lot. Once again, the emphasis in my collection is >on sets, not players... ================= Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:37:19 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "kevin71058" Subject: Superbowl Pool? Just checking to see if anyone is running the Superbowl pool? Happy Trading, Kevin Martens ================= Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:49:38 -0500 To: "kevin71058" ,OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sean McGowan Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Superbowl Pool? Kevin and all, Yup, I'll be doing the OBC SuperBowl pool again. I usually wait until the Championship games to call for participants. I have 2 weeks and it doesn't take much time to set up :) So, get those dupes boxes full! The Redskins lost, so now I have to say.... Go Pats! At 07:37 PM 1/6/2008, kevin71058 wrote: >Just checking to see if anyone is running the Superbowl pool? >Happy Trading, >Kevin Martens ================= Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 07:24:01 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "uthminsta1" Subject: YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE Hey everyone. Looks like this was successful. So far I've seen ELEVEN 1980 wantlists, from Bill Ashton, Brian Betza, Larry Gersbach, Joel Gyselinck, Rick Lyons, Tom Massimo, Mike Mroz, Don Rice, Mike Rich, Mark Talbot, and of course myself. If there's anyone I left out, I did not get your list. I've checked them all and have a few to send out to Ashton, Gersh, Mroz, Talbot. I'm going to wait until the next round to put a few more cards with them though. The flurry of activity has got me thinking about several things, and I think it might help to get a little input from the players (you)! 1. This one's simple. I just don't know the answer. How does hockey card dating work, alongside the other sports? I mean, if we're working on 1980, which year of hockey belongs, 1979-80 or 1980-81? I just assumed that the 1979-80 were the ones that came out in 1980, so they would be the ones that would go in. But honestly, when I started this, I didn't even think about hockey (sorry hockey fans, don't throw a puck at me). 2. There have been a couple guys (Steve Rittenberg and Mike Mroz who have done work on webpages that could host a compilation of wantlists, to simplify what we're doing. I really like this idea, but I don't want one person to have to do a lot of compiling. Do either of these webpages have the capability to give all the guys in OBC the chance to input and update their own material? If so, and it's user-friendly, I say we should definitely pursue that!!! 3. Would it be simpler to have everyone JUST write their wants, or JUST to post their availables? I know that there have been people who posted a wantlist, and a few minutes later someone posted that they had several hundred dupes from that same set. Perhaps going to a thematically-aligned (or year-by-year) webpage (like the one Steve is suggesting) would solve this problem. Everyone puts their wantlist on the new page, then everyone puts their availables on the wantlist server, so that everyone can read what's up for grabs. 4. Hey, I know there's still activity on 1980 stuff, but if you're like me, you're already thinking about 1979. A couple of people have suggested we do more years at once, but as I said earlier, there have been 11 wantlists to read over, and I think 14-15 lists of availables to consider. And packages to prepare. Envelopes to lick. Etc. And my two small children to play with!!! So do you guys think it would be OK to wait a couple days for the flurry of 1980-activity to die down before we do 1979? 5. Did I just confuse everyone even more? 6. Is everyone enjoying this?!!? 7. What in the world have I done???! ================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 05:40:57 -0800 (PST) To: OBC Ramblings From: Glenn Codere Subject: Re: [OBC-Wantlist] YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE Like Bob, I use the "Who Collects What" page all the time. It makes OBC life so much easier. The problem is that the "Who Collects What" page is part of the OBC website, which as we all know is dedicated to pre-UV era cards only. I'm sure thatany move to "infitrate" the site with references to new stuff would be resisted by quite a number of members. Perhaps the best idea would be for someone to host a similar webpage - independant of the OBC site - which would link in to member's wantlists. Once something like that was set up, the only updating required would be to add people's names/links on to the appropriate lists. ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Donaldson To: smartalecx@aol.com; OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 1:22:28 PM Subject: RE: [OBC-Wantlist] YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE I agree with Gary , the =93Who=92s working on what sets=94 is awesome. I use it all the time. I encourage everyone to keep themselves up to date here as it=92s a real time saver. From: OBC-Wantlist@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:OBC- Wantlist@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of smartalecx@aol. com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:14 AM To: uthminsta@hotmail. com ; OBC-Wantlist@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [OBC-Wantlist] YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE here;s an idea: i think we have a web page already where we can input what sets we are working on. i think its been in place for years. if i have a stack of dupes that i want to get rid of, i should be able to go to that page and see who is collecting that year. then i can go to each persons wantlist as currently posted. seems like a lot of extra work for something that is already there. but i am all in favor of anything that will increase activity. there has definately been a slowdown in this group over the past year. In a message dated 1/7/2008 1:23:19 AM Central Standard Time, uthminsta@hotmail. com writes: Hey everyone. Looks like this was successful. So far I've seen ELEVEN 1980 wantlists, from Bill Ashton, Brian Betza, Larry Gersbach, Joel Gyselinck, Rick Lyons, Tom Massimo, Mike Mroz, Don Rice, Mike Rich, Mark Talbot, and of course myself. If there's anyone I left out, I did not get your list. I've checked them all and have a few to send out to Ashton, Gersh, Mroz, Talbot. I'm going to wait until the next round to put a few more cards with them though. The flurry of activity has got me thinking about several things, and I think it might help to get a little input from the players (you)! 1. This one's simple. I just don't know the answer. How does hockey card dating work, alongside the other sports? I mean, if we're working on 1980, which year of hockey belongs, 1979-80 or 1980-81? I just assumed that the 1979-80 were the ones that came out in 1980, so they would be the ones that would go in. But honestly, when I started this, I didn't even think about hockey (sorry hockey fans, don't throw a puck at me). 2. There have been a couple guys (Steve Rittenberg and Mike Mroz who have done work on webpages that could host a compilation of wantlists, to simplify what we're doing. I really like this idea, but I don't want one person to have to do a lot of compiling. Do either of these webpages have the capability to give all the guys in OBC the chance to input and update their own material? If so, and it's user-friendly, I say we should definitely pursue that!!! 3. Would it be simpler to have everyone JUST write their wants, or JUST to post their availables? I know that there have been people who posted a wantlist, and a few minutes later someone posted that they had several hundred dupes from that same set. Perhaps going to a thematically- aligned (or year-by-year) webpage (like the one Steve is suggesting) would solve this problem. Everyone puts their wantlist on the new page, then everyone puts their availables on the wantlist server, so that everyone can read what's up for grabs. 4. Hey, I know there's still activity on 1980 stuff, but if you're like me, you're already thinking about 1979. A couple of people have suggested we do more years at once, but as I said earlier, there have been 11 wantlists to read over, and I think 14-15 lists of availables to consider. And packages to prepare. Envelopes to lick. Etc. And my two small children to play with!!! So do you guys think it would be OK to wait a couple days for the flurry of 1980-activity to die down before we do 1979? 5. Did I just confuse everyone even more? 6. Is everyone enjoying this?!!? 7. What in the world have I done???! Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_yltAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 05:50:12 -0800 (PST) To: OBC Ramblings From: Glenn Codere Subject: Who Collects What I don't know why, but I read Gary's recent suggestion as being one which includes UV stuff. On second reading, it obviously doesn't and was simply a reminder of sorts to members that this page exists. Sorry about adding to the confusion!! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:30:54 EST To: glenncodere@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: Who Collects What -- something for OBCAC to consider perhaps the powers that be in the obcac would consider allowing the dreaded uv's in a web page that lists what everyone is collecting. i dont think that would "contaminate" things too badly! In a message dated 1/7/2008 7:50:41 AM Central Standard Time, glenncodere@yahoo.com writes: I don't know why, but I read Gary's recent suggestion as being one which includes UV stuff. On second reading, it obviously doesn't and was simply a reminder of sorts to members that this page exists. Sorry about adding to the confusion!! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. _Try it (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ================= Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:02:07 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Mike Mroz" Subject: Re: Who Collects What -- something for OBCAC to consider On that note, one thing I've noticed with the year-by-year project is that alot of us collect sports other than baseball - would it be possible to add other sports to the Who Collects What page? Mike Mroz --- In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, smartalecx@... wrote: > perhaps the powers that be in the obcac would consider allowing the > uv's in a web page that lists what everyone is collecting. i dont think that > would "contaminate" things too badly! > gm > In a message dated 1/7/2008 7:50:41 AM Central Standard Time, > glenncodere@... writes: > Guys, > I don't know why, but I read Gary's recent suggestion as being one > includes UV stuff. On second reading, it obviously doesn't and was simply a > reminder of sorts to members that this page exists. > Sorry about adding to the confusion!! > Glenn > ____________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. _Try it > now._ (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_yltAhu06 > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise? ================= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:15:28 -0800 (PST) To: OBC National , From: Glenn Codere Subject: Thinking ahead..... There is a real possibility that I may be able to attend The National in Chicago this year. There are still a few details to be worked out, but here's how things are panning out. The World AIDS Conference is held every 2 years. I usually submit a piece of work which, if accepted for presentation, allows me to attend the conference (my unit won't fork out the money simply to attend - we must be presenting). This year, the conference is in Mexico City and runs from August 2-8. The National runs from July 30-Aug 3. If I'm able to attend, I'll ask my work to provide me with air fare from Glasgow to Chicago, and from Mexico City to Glasgow. I've checked out Expedia and the cost of doing this is exactly the same as a return fare direct to Mexico City. They've allowed me to do something similar on a few occasions in the past. I'd have to pay my own fare from Chicago to Mexico and of course my accommodation in Chicago. I've had a look at that, and I'm seriously considering taking a flyer on booking a room in Chicago right now. The exchange rate (UK pound to US dollar) is extremely good at present, and I'd hate to lose out on the chance of getting something cheap (I won't know for certain whether I'm going or not until about April). At the moment I can get a great price at the Super 8, 2 of which are only a couple miles from the venue. Of course, the other thing I'd have to consider would be whther or not other OBCers - preferably those with a car - would be staying at the same place (I don't drive). Booking now would certainly be a gamble, but I'm fairly hopeful that things will work out in my favor. I'm keeping my fingers tightly crosssed for this one!!! Anyone else have any plans in the pipeline? Glasgow, Scotland Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ================= Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:16:27 -0500 To: OBC Ramblings From: Don Rice Subject: Year-by-year project: My 2-cents worth Hey folks....
My first impression of this year-by-year project is that it has the potential to be a raging success. As with everything, the devil will be in the details. How do we keep it simple yet effective? For me, simple always works best. And although there have been several suggestions on combining lists, creating web pages, etc., these will all require ongoing yeoman-like effort by somebody. Admiration and kudos to anyone willing and able to do this consistently moving forward!
I like the simple concept of simply posting (at agreed upon times, maybe every two weeks) a Want List and an Available List.
And here's why:
1. It's easy for me to pull available cards from one specific year, set them aside, and post both wants and availables.
2. I can leave those cards on my desk for two weeks, very easy access (as opposed to the several boxes of dupes I have)
3. Interested OBCers can then tell me what to send from that year.... I don't have to review several web pages.
4. If I am sending something to someone, I will naturally review that person's full WL in attempts to beef up the envelope, if necessary.
5. People who may not have ordinarily looked at my WL may be prompted to do so if they have a hit to my posted year WL (or if I send them 6. Changing the focus every 2 weeks or so gives the process a measured pace, an important concept since we all have real lives to balance!
7. Finally, after two weeks, leftover cards go back in the dupe box, and a new year emerges.
So those are my thoughts on this fantastic concept. DR
--
Don Rice
3 Rockefeller Blvd.
Rensselaer, NY 12144

dkrice@nycap.rr.com
On-line WL: http://home.nycap.rr.com/dkrice/
==============================================

=================

Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:44:26 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "uthminsta1" 
Subject: Who collects what

I don't know... I don't think the OBC website should include UV cards.

Now please don't hit me for saying this, but...
Perhaps it would be possible to change how we DEFINE the term UV?  I
mean, early 80's stuff is closing in on 30 years old!  And there
weren't any LITERALLY UV cards until 1989 Upper Deck came around.
Just a stab in the dark, but how about we define VINTAGE as cards
which are 25 years old or more?

I'll be the first to point out that I'm one of the youngest members of
the group.  In fact I think there are only 3 or 4 members younger than
me... So I know my understanding of "old cards" is different than the
majority of the membership of the group.  So please understand, I'm
not trying to push anything here.  Just thinking.  And wondering what
the others think.

Bottom line, I'm honored to be a part of this group!

=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:41:27 EST
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: brockhattox@cs.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

I guess I am one of the oldest members of the group.  In my opinion, "Old
baseball cards" stopped in 1974 when Topps stopped issuing cards in series
throughout the summer.  While not technically "UV", cards after 1973 aren't vintage
to me.
Of course, in 1973, I was 25, married and working in an office, and you were
still a gleam in your Dad's eye, so I understand the difference in opinion...
Take care,

=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 13:54:10 EST
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

aaron:  i was suggesting that the who collects what page include  UV.  the
wantlists and server thank you rules can remain as fair as i'm  concerned.

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:45:01 AM Central Standard Time,
uthminsta@hotmail.com writes:

I don't know... I don't think the OBC website should include UV cards.

Now please don't hit me for saying this, but...
Perhaps it would be  possible to change how we DEFINE the term UV? I
mean, early 80's stuff is  closing in on 30 years old! And there
weren't any LITERALLY UV cards until  1989 Upper Deck came around.
Just a stab in the dark, but how about we  define VINTAGE as cards
which are 25 years old or more?

I'll be the  first to point out that I'm one of the youngest members of
the group. In  fact I think there are only 3 or 4 members younger than
me... So I know my  understanding of "old cards" is different than the
majority of the  membership of the group. So please understand, I'm
not trying to push  anything here. Just thinking. And wondering what
the others  think.

Bottom line, I'm honored to be a part of this  group!

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: "uthminsta1" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:59:03 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE

Hello All,

Well as you can see Aaron you just never know what can happen when you "wake the sleeping giant."  I have put off working on post 1980 sets for many years and the amount of work I put in this weekend for my hobby was staggering - but it was time well spent.  Let me respond to your question:

1) I believe that it is typical for Basketball and Hockey sets to be designated by the year that they are distributed so 1980 Basketball and Hockey sets would be the `79-80 set, the 1981 sets would be `80-81 and so on.

2) Maintaining a web page is time consuming, but having too many people having access to a page can be disastrous.  From experience I can tell you that you do not want this, if one person makes a mistake it can spoil the entire page, then everyone must spend more time.  Compiling the list that I did for interested traders does take some time and effort and I do not know that I would do it for each year that we trade but it is not necessary - I just thought that it made things much easier.  Yahoo-groups has a database feature that has been used in the OPC-Central group (with limited success - My information is woefully out of date) but this might be a consideration.  Certainly "food for thought' is this topic of technology and how to best use it.

3) I have never posted and availables list and probably will not.  There are a few reasons for this but first and foremost is that I do not have the time to keep such a list.  I add 100's of dupes or more to the box weekly and I just don't want to be bothered.  I also think it's the lazy man's way to disburse dupe's and more often than not, particularly with a FCFS mentality, it's not very fair minded.  My list is getting harder and harder to hit and when I'm the second guy to ask for something that is posted that I needed (probably for a long time) it gets very discouraging.  I would have rather not known that anybody had it available.  I say just post want lists.

4) I propose that we move slower rather than faster on this.  We just received a few emails today with members wanting to get involved and I think a few more will do so as well over the next week or so.  Most weekends are filled with family obligations and I don't have time to be all over the Internet, unlike this past weekend where I had some spare time to indulge my hobby.  I think that we will lose a lot of members to this project if we move ahead so quickly that we can't keep up.  I know that I will have to drop out.  I think that we should move ahead adding the next (2) years at the start of each month (so Feb 1 we add 1979 and 1982 and so forth).  I might even go as far as to suggest that we add 1956 to this month's search and add a year each month so that next month we were looking at 1957, 1979 and 1982 and that by the end of 2008 we will have visited all years between 1956 and 1992, but no more than that.

5) If you didn't do a good job of confusing the masses - then I sure have.

6) It's always fun to wake the sleeping giant!!!

7) What have you done - well for me it's spark enthusiasm for seldom worked on eras (the 80's and beyond) of my collection.  With classes beginning on Friday (School Law) I can't say how long my enthusiasm will last but for now I'm pleased to be participating.

Well this Morganesque ramble will have to come to an end, I applaud you if you have stayed with me this far - BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ------------------ MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "uthminsta1" 
Hey everyone. Looks like this was successful. So far I've seen
ELEVEN 1980 wantlists, from Bill Ashton, Brian Betza, Larry Gersbach,
Joel Gyselinck, Rick Lyons, Tom Massimo, Mike Mroz, Don Rice, Mike
Rich, Mark Talbot, and of course myself. If there's anyone I left
out, I did not get your list.

I've checked them all and have a few to send out to Ashton, Gersh,
Mroz, Talbot. I'm going to wait until the next round to put a few
more cards with them though.

The flurry of activity has got me thinking about several things, and I
think it might help to get a little input from the players (you)!

1. This one's simple. I just don't know the answer. How does hockey
card dating work, alongside the other sports? I mean, if we're
working on 1980, which year of hockey belongs, 1979-80 or 1980-81? I
just assumed that the 1979-80 were the ones that came out in 1980, so
they would be the ones that would go in. But honestly, when I started
this, I didn't even think about hockey (sorry hockey fans, don't throw
a puck at me).

2. There have been a couple guys (Steve Rittenberg and Mike Mroz who
have done work on webpages that could host a compilation of wantlists,
to simplify what we're doing. I really like this idea, but I don't
want one person to have to do a lot of compiling. Do either of these
webpages have the capability to give all the guys in OBC the chance to
input and update their own material? If so, and it's user-friendly, I
say we should definitely pursue that!!!

3. Would it be simpler to have everyone JUST write their wants, or
JUST to post their availables? I know that there have been people who
posted a wantlist, and a few minutes later someone posted that they
had several hundred dupes from that same set. Perhaps going to a
thematically-aligned (or year-by-year) webpage (like the one Steve is
suggesting) would solve this problem. Everyone puts their wantlist on
the new page, then everyone puts their availables on the wantlist
server, so that everyone can read what's up for grabs.

4. Hey, I know there's still activity on 1980 stuff, but if you're
like me, you're already thinking about 1979. A couple of people have
suggested we do more years at once, but as I said earlier, there have
been 11 wantlists to read over, and I think 14-15 lists of availables
to consider. And packages to prepare. Envelopes to lick. Etc. And
my two small children to play with!!! So do you guys think it would
be OK to wait a couple days for the flurry of 1980-activity to die
down before we do 1979?

5. Did I just confuse everyone even more?
6. Is everyone enjoying this?!!?
7. What in the world have I done???!

=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:26:11 EST
To: Smartalecx@aol.com, uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: biggies@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

I've honestly never understood how a group called OLD BASEBALL CARDS would
or could trade in UV or hockey or basketball or football or Batman or Farrah
Fawcet (might be an acceptable inclusion there) anyway.

I do agree that "vintage" is a moving target and maybe that should be
adjusted every 5 years. 1980 now, 1985 in 2010, 1990 in 2015 etc always leaving  a
25 year deficit. To the other sports, and by the way I collect some old
Basketball and older hockey, we simply should start side groups. OBBC, OFC and  OHC.

Bob  Bannon

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:38:43 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Tom Massimo" 
Subject: Re: Who collects what

Although 1974 was the first year that I collected cards (as a little 5
year old), I agree with Brock.  There is something different about
cards issued in a serious of sets which makes collecting them more

That being said, I also think there is a big difference between cards
issued from 1974 to 1980 from cards issued post 1980.  The 1981
introductions of Fleer and Donruss in addition to big Topps traded sets
made collecting more difficult.  Collecting was further complicated by
the insert (making an All-Star team gave a player at least 4 cards just
from Topps in the 80's), Chrome, Tiffany, retro sets, and more card
companies entering the fray.

Although it raised Anti-Trust issues, I preferred it when Topps was the
king with a few regional and food issues issuing sets.

=================

To: "uthminsta1" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:42:45 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

Boy oh Boy - Does Aaron Shirley know how to wake the sleeping giant or what?  First a challenge to the collecting bretern and now THIS!!!  The discussion on what constitutes UV and vintage cards and what is a good cut off year has been discussed at nauseum over the years.  The 1980 year has always been the popular choice because of the emergence of Fleer and Donruss brands in 1981and the eventual proliferation of various product with the advent of competition in the marketplace.  From that point on materials were over-produced and to this day are still readily accessible.  I understand that Tom Housley just purchased a wax box of `81 Fleer at the local card shop to jump start his `81 list.  The store owner was probably dancing in the isles to get rid of that product as well.  I tend to lean toward just leaving the designations where they are - that's my 2 cents worth - BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ----------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "uthminsta1" 
I don't know... I don't think the OBC website should include UV cards.

Now please don't hit me for saying this, but...
Perhaps it would be possible to change how we DEFINE the term UV? I
mean, early 80's stuff is closing in on 30 years old! And there
weren't any LITERALLY UV cards until 1989 Upper Deck came around.
Just a stab in the dark, but how about we define VINTAGE as cards
which are 25 years old or more?

I'll be the first to point out that I'm one of the youngest members of
the group. In fact I think there are only 3 or 4 members younger than
me... So I know my understanding of "old cards" is different than the
majority of the membership of the group. So please understand, I'm
not trying to push anything here. Just thinking. And wondering what
the others think.

Bottom line, I'm honored to be a part of this group!

=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 13:22:25 -0800 (PST)
To: obc ramblings 
From: Matthew 
Subject: The UV cutoff

I'd agree that Upper Deck or not, the UV generation starts with 1981's set proliferation. The sheer quantity of material that appeared starting in the 1980s really overwhelms anything before. It's also when people started taking care of everything, so the percentage of discarded collections and low-grade cards really drops. It's so different putting together a set five years before (say, 1975) versus the same set five years later (say, 1985), even when both have high-profile RCs and other stars.

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 16:56:00 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Being OVER THIRTY might sound old enough... ... ...

I always thought Farrah was kind of hawt, and while I MIGHT perhaps like toview
a scan of one of her cards (Body?), I don't want one sent to me, I certainly
don't want to own one, and quite frankly, I don't even want to haveto
read about it (her), either.  While I do enjoy dabbling around with a card
or two from my favorite Original Six hockey team, I really don't want to
read anything more about them, either, or basketball, or football, or Batman,
or Robin or Star Trek, and, well, you get the idea.  I too have to agree
that I think they do not belong in a group that calls itself "OLD BASEBALL

Now, I might enjoy the debate about what defines "old," but all I have to do
to settle that one is look in the mirror.  I too, pretty much gave up on the
hobby in the middle 70's, and by the time the 80's rolled around, I wasmarried,
had job & mortgage responsibilities and I was out of it.  My feelings
were things had gone totally out of control and it took another twentyyears
for me to find any interest again.

A couple of weeks ago I thought it might be an economical set to build so Itoo
added wants for the 1980 Topps issue onto my web pages, but it was done
without fanfare and I told no one.  Now with this added flurry of activity
just over the past weekend, I know I can't keep up and the thrill and lustre
of taking on a new set wore off just as quickly, especially when I started
reading the posts of those who were already gun-ho to jump into the next

Its SKI SEASON in Colorado, and, well, for me, this time of year the card table
is generally going to see more hits of snowflakes and dust than it will
packages coming or going.  Of course, this is a personal choice I proactively
make each year and should have no bearing on what anyone else wants todo
but for me, I too like Mark's idea of slower instead of faster, much slower,
in fact, and I definitely want to see baseball remain the primary focus.

I'll leave my two cents on the soap box for the next caller ... ... ...

----- Original Message -----
From: biggies@aol.com
To: Smartalecx@aol.com ; uthminsta@hotmail.com ; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

I've honestly never understood how a group called OLD BASEBALL CARDS would or
could trade in UV or hockey or basketball or football or Batman or Farrah
Fawcet (might be an acceptable inclusion there) anyway.

I do agree that "vintage" is a moving target and maybe that should be adjusted
every 5 years. 1980 now, 1985 in 2010, 1990 in 2015 etc always leaving a
25 year deficit. To the other sports, and by the way I collect some old Basketball
and older hockey, we simply should start side groups. OBBC, OFC and

Bob  Bannon

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

=================

To: biggies@aol.com, Smartalecx@aol.com, uthminsta@hotmail.com,
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:02:06 -0500
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

I Couldn't agree more with Bobs Email, Im sure some guys will disagree with Bob and I but The group is Old Baseball Cards, and a few years ago when I joined That's all we saw on the thank you servers. ?One time when I first joined Some one sent me UV cards and I sent a thank you and I got an email?..I don't remember who it was from, but He dam near Ripped me a new ONE.

?? Oh...I ?am not saying UV stuff is bad, but its not OBC......

Here is how i look at it..... If my wife threw out my 1988 donruss set I would get over it...
If my wife threw out my 55 Bowman set I would be arrested!!!
Just my 2 cents
Rob Gioia

-----Original Message-----
From: biggies@aol.com
To: Smartalecx@aol.com; uthminsta@hotmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:26 pm
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

I've honestly never understood how a group called OLD BASEBALL CARDS would or could trade in UV or hockey or basketball or football or Batman or Farrah Fawcet (might be an acceptable inclusion there) anyway.

I do agree that "vintage" is a moving target and maybe that should be adjusted every 5 years. 1980 now, 1985 in 2010, 1990 in 2015 etc always leaving a 25 year deficit. To the other sports, and by the way I collect some old Basketball and older hockey, we simply should start side groups. OBBC, OFC and OHC.

Bob? Bannon

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

=================

To: talbot1@comcast.net, "uthminsta1" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:44:11 +0000
From: tvalacak@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE

Good evening everyone,

This has been a good thread to read tonight.  I thought I would add some input to some of the issues.

1.  The 1980 - uv date.  I don;t think we should change it.  No doubt, there is a difference in the availability of the cardboard since Donruss and Fleer entered the market.  I can even understand the difference in 74 and up, considering these sets were all released at the same time.  I think we have an established cut of 1980, and I don't think we should change.

2.  I really like the idea of slowing down a bit.  A grouping a month sounds great.  I was away this weekend, and when I turned on th ecomputer last night, there were over 70 emails waiting.  I decided to wait until today to read them all.  For myself, this takes some time.  I think if we were to change the sets every week, this would lose a great deal of thunder.  Also, my uv is not well organized.  A little time may allow me to find more cards and/or add another set myself.  (I have a stack of 81 Donruss that are eager to get organized.)  I also agree with Mark in that we should add the 56 set into this months group as well.

3. As far as putting all are availables/wants on one database would be problematic for me.  I do not have my dupes listed individually.  I do have them numbered, so it is easy for me to take someones wantlist and go through my dupes boxes.

4.  I don't see any harm in other sports.  There is no doubt that baseball is the primary focus of the group.   I think that is evident in any wantlist within our group.  However, if the group were to decide that we could no longer post other sports, I would gladly join those new groups.  I personally do not collect hockey, but I have a good stack that I like to send out to some of our members.  It's an opportunity to get some cardboard to a fellow OBC member.  Helping out another collector.

Just my two cents.

Time to enjoy the game and tear open a package from Lynn Miller.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Hello All,

Well as you can see Aaron you just never know what can happen when you "wake the sleeping giant."  I have put off working on post 1980 sets for many years and the amount of work I put in this weekend for my hobby was staggering - but it was time well spent.  Let me respond to your question:

1) I believe that it is typical for Basketball and Hockey sets to be designated by the year that they are distributed so 1980 Basketball and Hockey sets would be the `79-80 set, the 1981 sets would be `80-81 and so on.

2) Maintaining a web page is time consuming, but having too many people having access to a page can be disastrous.  From experience I can tell you that you do not want this, if one person makes a mistake it can spoil the entire page, then everyone must spend more time.  Compiling the list that I did for interested traders does take some time and effort and I do not know that I would do it for each year that we trade but it is not necessary - I just thought that it made things much easier.  Yahoo-groups has a database feature that has been used in the OPC-Central group (with limited success - My information is woefully out of date) but this might be a consideration.  Certainly "food for thought' is this topic of technology and how to best use it.

3) I have never posted and availables list and probably will not.  There are a few reasons for this but first and foremost is that I do not have the time to keep such a list.  I add 100's of dupes or more to the box weekly and I just don't want to be bothered.  I also think it's the lazy man's way to disburse dupe's and more often than not, particularly with a FCFS mentality, it's not very fair minded.  My list is getting harder and harder to hit and when I'm the second guy to ask for something that is posted that I needed (probably for a long time) it gets very discouraging.  I would have rather not known that anybody had it available.  I say just post want lists.

4) I propose that we move slower rather than faster on this.  We just received a few emails today with members wanting to get involved and I think a few more will do so as well over the next week or so.  Most weekends are filled with family obligations and I don't have time to be all over the Internet, unlike this past weekend where I had some spare time to indulge my hobby.  I think that we will lose a lot of members to this project if we move ahead so quickly that we can't keep up.  I know that I will have to drop out.  I think that we should move ahead adding the next (2) years at the start of each month (so Feb 1 we add 1979 and 1982 and so forth).  I might even go as far as to suggest that we add 1956 to this month's search and add a year each month so that next month we were looking at 1957, 1979 and 1982 and that by the end of 2008 we will have visited all years between 1956 and 1992, but no more than that.

5) If you didn't do a good job of confusing the masses - then I sure have.

6) It's always fun to wake the sleeping giant!!!

7) What have you done - well for me it's spark enthusiasm for seldom worked on eras (the 80's and beyond) of my collection.  With classes beginning on Friday (School Law) I can't say how long my enthusiasm will last but for now I'm pleased to be participating.

Well this Morganesque ramble will have to come to an end, I applaud you if you have stayed with me this far - BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ------------------ MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "uthminsta1" 

Hey everyone. Looks like this was successful. So far I've seen
ELEVEN 1980 wantlists, from Bill Ashton, Brian Betza, Larry Gersbach,
Joel Gyselinck, Rick Lyons, Tom Massimo, Mike Mroz, Don Rice, Mike
Rich, Mark Talbot, and of course myself. If there's anyone I left
out, I did not get your list.

I've checked them all and have a few to send out to Ashton, Gersh,
Mroz, Talbot. I'm going to wait until the next round to put a few
more cards with them though.

The flurry of activity has got me thinking about several things, and I
think it might help to get a little input from the players (you)!

1. This one's simple. I just don't know the answer. How does hockey
card dating work, alongside the other sports? I mean, if we're
working on 1980, which year of hockey belongs, 1979-80 or 1980-81? I
just assumed that the 1979-80 were the ones that came out in 1980, so
they would be the ones that would go in. But honestly, when I started
this, I didn't even think about hockey (sorry hockey fans, don't throw
a puck at me).

2. There have been a couple guys (Steve Rittenberg and Mike Mroz who
have done work on webpages that could host a compilation of wantlists,
to simplify what we're doing. I really like this idea, but I don't
want one person to have to do a lot of compiling. Do either of these
webpages have the capability to give all the guys in OBC the chance to
input and update their own material? If so, and it's user-friendly, I
say we should definitely pursue that!!!

3. Would it be simpler to have everyone JUST write their wants, or
JUST to post their availables? I know that there have been people who
posted a wantlist, and a few minutes later someone posted that they
had several hundred dupes from that same set. Perhaps going to a
thematically-aligned (or year-by-year) webpage (like the one Steve is
suggesting) would solve this problem. Everyone puts their wantlist on
the new page, then everyone puts their availables on the wantlist
server, so that everyone can read what's up for grabs.

4. Hey, I know there's still activity on 1980 stuff, but if you're
like me, you're already thinking about 1979. A couple of people have
suggested we do more years at once, but as I said earlier, there have
been 11 wantlists to read over, and I think 14-15 lists of availables
to consider. And packages to prepare. Envelopes to lick. Etc. And
my two small children to play with!!! So do you guys think it would
be OK to wait a couple days for the flurry of 1980-activity to die
down before we do 1979?

5. Did I just confuse everyone even more?
6. Is everyone enjoying this?!!?
7. What in the world have I done???!

=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 20:53:55 EST
To: Biggies@aol.com, Smartalecx@aol.com, uthminsta@hotmail.com,
From: mikesportsfan@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

While I understand that some people feel that oldbaseball.com should exclude
anything that is not baseball, I disagree.  When I tell people about my hobby,
I do not say that I collect sports cards.  I say I collect BB cards.  To me
it is a generic term, for all trading cards.  That said, if you go back into
the archives, a few years ago, I half jokingly suggested we change our name to
oldsportscards or oldtradingcards.
As for the Who Collects What, I too have used it frequently.  However, it is
far from inclusive.  Take it from someone who is collecting a few hundred
sets.  I guess it would be possible to greatly expand that site to include every
possible vintage BB set.  Maybe a few links for those that collect other sports
or non-sports as well.
Mike Rich

Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: Tom Massimo , 
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 01:53:18 +0000
From: LYONS RONI 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Ultimately there is only one thing that matters and that is that the systemcontinues
and thrives. We all know that the world is always changing and this
group will be no different you have to to survive. If you get stuck in tunnel
vision you get left behind . I am one of the new guys but there willbe
a day that I will be the most senior guy and I don't even have a pre-war
set I'm working on what do you think the new member in 20 years from now will
be collecting. I think anything that get the ball rolling again is a good
idea but like most ideas they are not perfect at the start this will probably
evolve into something that is workable for everyone. If this anyway offends
anyone I'll say I'm sorry now thanks Rick

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.comFrom: tdmassimo@yahoo.comDate: Mon, 7 Jan 2008
20:38:43 +0000Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Although 1974 was the first year that I collected cards (as a little 5 yearold),
I agree with Brock. There is something different about cards issued in
a serious of sets which makes collecting them more interesting. That being
said, I also think there is a big difference between cards issued from 1974
to 1980 from cards issued post 1980. The 1981 introductions of Fleer and
Donruss in addition to big Topps traded sets made collecting more difficult.
Collecting was further complicated by the insert (making an All-Star team
gave a player at least 4 cards just from Topps in the 80's), Chrome, Tiffany,
retro sets, and more card companies entering the fray.Although it raised
Anti-Trust issues, I preferred it when Topps was the king with a few regional
and food issues issuing sets.Tom

=================

To: 
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:53:35 -0700
From: "Marshall West" 
Subject: card identify?

Does anyone know about this?  I just picked up a couple of "Official Baseball
Quiz" cards, with 1968 on the front, taller than standard cards, questions
and answers in the middle, blank back, and 7 team logos on the bottom.  What
in the heck are these?  Maybe Fleer?

Thanks ahead of time.

Marshall West
=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:50:45 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: am i missing something?

in all of this conversation, did anyone suggest that obc should cover
anything more recent than 1980 baseball?   i keep reading comments  about it, but
except for one person saying we should add 5 years every 5 years  (which i dont
agree with), i havent seen anyone suggest it.

what i did suggest was that, if we work on a who collects what webpage,  that
if someone wants to list other sets or sports, that would be fine.   its not
in your face server postings about it, its a simple list.  if you  dont want
to see who is collecting what, dont look.

look at the directory page now.  there is plenty of mention of  non-baseball
sets being collected.  i havent read my blurb in a while, but  i think i
mention football and even beatles cards. is anyone offended by  that?

while i too dont want to read a lot about uv trading on the thanks server,  i
dont mind reading about it on the uv server if i choose to.  and i  certainly
post thanks for each and every hit i get, uv or not.  i just use  the correct
server for it.  i know for a fact there are an awful lot of us  that try to
complete the most recent topps set each year.  so if someone  goes to a group
web page and sees that i am working on the 2008 topps set, would  ANYONE in obc
seriously be offended?  i wont thank anyone on the obc thanks  server, but i
will on the uv server.

seriously, is that a problem for anyone?

can we stop the debate about what's uv or not?  does it matter?   as far as i
know, the only thing it effects is whether or not we can have a  particular
set listed on the wantlist page that we link to our name in the  directory.

if you want to see my uv list, you can find a link to it on my "obc
approved" page.

tnx for letting me rant.  i see the fun being taken out of this hobby,  and
sure hope we can nip it in the bud.

now, who wants to buy an extra chrome refractor matrix SP black diamond red
lettered PSA graded autographed 1 of 1 fukodome game used toenail clipping
that  i have?

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:50:43 EST
To: Smartalecx@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: biggies@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] am i missing something?

Sorry if anyone was offended.

Actually it was suggested by someone that the vintage bar be  moved.

I was the one who said that we might slide the bar every 5 years as an
agreement with that suggestion. Since then argument against it has swayed me and
in very Romneyesque fashion, I have changed my position. I don't collect
anything post 1980 so my position was really more sympathetic than anything, but  I
yield to greater minds.
But I think some people find the fun in this hobby within the discussion.
What else do we do, but talk about cardboard. I want you to rant. I want
everyone to rant. OBC has a great reputation of Cardboard Academics and has  also
long been held as the place where curmudgeon traders might come to  fade away. A
place where opinions race and sometimes stink but should always  have a place.
I was a new guy for a very long time and may still seem it to some, and
always felt like I was swimming somewhat up the OBC stream, but when the last
flipped card settles I find great fraternal kinship here.

I think our strength is in our ability to find difference.

So lets not stifle any voices and hear them all respectfully but debate the
other side freely and respectfully.

And finally, we always have the option of not listening and certainly not
participating in any discussion. But I for 1 would like to have more choices to

Respectfully,  BB

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:34:49 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Re: Who CARES who collects what; what I want to know is who DEFENDS What  ???

Just flippin' too funny:

" ... ...Here is how i look at it..... If my wife threw out my 1988 donrussset
I would get over it...
If my wife threw out my 55 Bowman set I would be arrested!!!"

Sweet words, Rob, and yes, too funny.  I had my four "Reggies" along my entire
'near complete '69 set ripped off.  They got away with another dozen ormore
pieces of crap from the eighties and nineties; factory sets and update
sets and all else still in the shrink wrap, along with some hand built late
80's and early 90's trash sets were lifted.  While I'll FOREVER carry a grudge
and be perturbed about any and all of the loss, it's those '69's that
I still have "issues" with.  I just KNOW it was an inside job, but until I
can prove it, there wont be any reasons.  Once I learn how I can prove who
I think did it, the retaliatory massacre wont just be grounds to throw away
the key; even here in Colorado, where we haven't had an execution since the
gold rush daze, they'll be warmin' up and testin' out the circuitry in their
new electric chair.

As long as I know I get to them first; I wont care!

Touch any of my 50's, and I'm movin' to Wyoming where I can shoot first andask
questions later.

... ... ...and somehow I'm guessing these beliefs could cause a decrease ofattendance
in the next RMCCC gathering.

----- Original Message -----
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
To: biggies@aol.com ; Smartalecx@aol.com ; uthminsta@hotmail.com ; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

I Couldn't agree more with Bobs Email, Im sure some guys will disagree withBob
and I but The group is Old Baseball Cards, and a few years ago when I joined
That's all we saw on the thank you servers.  One time when I first joined
Some one sent me UV cards and I sent a thank you and I got an email ..I
don't remember who it was from, but He dam near Ripped me a new ONE.

Oh...I  am not saying UV stuff is bad, but its not OBC......

Here is how i look at it..... If my wife threw out my 1988 donruss set I would
get over it...
If my wife threw out my 55 Bowman set I would be arrested!!!
Just my 2 cents
Rob Gioia

-----Original Message-----
From: biggies@aol.com
To: Smartalecx@aol.com; uthminsta@hotmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 2:26 pm
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who collects what

I've honestly never understood how a group called OLD BASEBALL CARDS would or
could trade in UV or hockey or basketball or football or Batman or Farrah
Fawcet (might be an acceptable inclusion there) anyway.

I do agree that "vintage" is a moving target and maybe that should be adjusted
every 5 years. 1980 now, 1985 in 2010, 1990 in 2015 etc always leaving a
25 year deficit. To the other sports, and by the way I collect some old Basketball
and older hockey, we simply should start side groups. OBBC, OFC and

Bob  Bannon

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!

=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:19:43 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Re: Lets Slow Down the  YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE

Thank you, TJ, a nice two cents indeed.

I agree with almost everything, but I still think "Old Baseball Cards" needs
to stick with "old baseball."  Tis' such a story is the only and REAL reason
I begged to join.  I wanted to have chance at working with a group of "old
baseball card collectors."  No debate!!!  If that changes, then I mighttoo,
have to consider changing.    ... ... ...and that would sux.

I'm not at all against other sports; I LOVE hockey, and almost ALL hockey. However,
it just doesn't seem right within this particular group.  I too, love
bunches of the UV, no matter where we "define" that the old is versus the
new.  I joined this group because I wanted to believe that this group is
OLD BASEBALL.  Just like it says.  No debate.  No changes.  Leaving thoseother
options open to myself are the reasons why I maintain membership in some
of the other card collection groups, which I would defend just a vehemitely,
for their reasons, just like I'm doing for OBC.  I don't know some of
the guru's in this group like I would like to, but I continue to hope to learn,
and I am confident that when I continue to do learn about the pre-1980's
and 1970's stuff, I will be learning from the best.  Inviting post 1980
expertise, to me, would be like inviting information I both don't need, or

I'll push once again, then again shut up, but I do want OBC to remain "Old Baseball."

Bitch to me if you don't like; but preach to the choir.

...and, of course, I love the slowing down idea.  Even one issue per every three
to six months is still more than enough to leave me in the snowflake dust.
Anything more frequent than that and I'm going to feel "pressure" just
to try to keep up.  .... .... and, if I'm feelin' any kind of pressure for
anything, I'll bail out first before I try to keep up.

I'll leave four cents on the soap box this time.

----- Original Message -----
From: tvalacak@comcast.net
To: talbot1@comcast.net ; uthminsta1 ; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] YEAR-BY-YEAR PROJECT UPDATE

Good evening everyone,

This has been a good thread to read tonight.  I thought I would add some input
to some of the issues.

1.  The 1980 - uv date.  I don;t think we should change it.  No doubt, there
is a difference in the availability of the cardboard since Donruss and Fleer
entered the market.  I can even understand the difference in 74 and up,considering
these sets were all released at the same time.  I think we have
an established cut of 1980, and I don't think we should change.

2.  I really like the idea of slowing down a bit.  A grouping a month sounds
great.  I was away this weekend, and when I turned on th ecomputer last night,
there were over 70 emails waiting.  I decided to wait until today to read
them all.  For myself, this takes some time.  I think if we were to change
the sets every week, this would lose a great deal of thunder.  Also, my
uv is not well organized.  A little time may allow me to find more cards and/or
add another set myself.  (I have a stack of 81 Donruss that are eager
to get organized.)  I also agree with Mark in that we should add the 56 set
into this months group as well.

3. As far as putting all are availables/wants on one database would be problematic
for me.  I do not have my dupes listed individually.  I do have them
numbered, so it is easy for me to take someones wantlist and go through my
dupes boxes.

4.  I don't see any harm in other sports.  There is no doubt that baseball is
the primary focus of the group.   I think that is evident in any wantlist
within our group.  However, if the group were to decide that we could no longer
post other sports, I would gladly join those new groups.  I personally
do not collect hockey, but I have a good stack that I like to send out to
some of our members.  It's an opportunity to get some cardboard to a fellow
OBC member.  Helping out another collector.

Just my two cents.

Time to enjoy the game and tear open a package from Lynn Miller.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: talbot1@comcast.net

Hello All,

Well as you can see Aaron you just never know what can happen when you
"wake the sleeping giant."  I have put off working on post 1980 sets formany
years and the amount of work I put in this weekend for my hobby was staggering
- but it was time well spent.  Let me respond to your question:

1) I believe that it is typical for Basketball and Hockey sets to be designated
by the year that they are distributed so 1980 Basketball and Hockey sets
would be the `79-80 set, the 1981 sets would be `80-81 and so on.

2) Maintaining a web page is time consuming, but having too many people having
access to a page can be disastrous.  From experience I can tell you that
you do not want this, if one person makes a mistake it can spoil the entire
page, then everyone must spend more time.  Compiling the list that I did
for interested traders does take some time and effort and I do not know that
I would do it for each year that we trade but it is not necessary - I just
thought that it made things much easier.  Yahoo-groups has a database feature
that has been used in the OPC-Central group (with limited success -My
information is woefully out of date) but this might be a consideration.Certainly
"food for thought' is this topic of technology and how to best use

3) I have never posted and availables list and probably will not.  There are
a few reasons for this but first and foremost is that I do not have thetime
to keep such a list.  I add 100's of dupes or more to the box weekly and
I just don't want to be bothered.  I also think it's the lazy man's wayto
disburse dupe's and more often than not, particularly with a FCFS mentality,
it's not very fair minded.  My list is getting harder and harder to hit
and when I'm the second guy to ask for something that is posted that I needed
(probably for a long time) it gets very discouraging.  I would have rather
not known that anybody had it available.  I say just post want lists.

4) I propose that we move slower rather than faster on this.  We just received
a few emails today with members wanting to get involved and I think afew
more will do so as well over the next week or so.  Most weekends are filled
with family obligations and I don't have time to be all over the Internet,
unlike this past weekend where I had some spare time to indulge my hobby.
I think that we will lose a lot of members to this project if we moveahead
so quickly that we can't keep up.  I know that I will have to drop out.
I think that we should move ahead adding the next (2) years at the start
of each month (so Feb 1 we add 1979 and 1982 and so forth).  I might even
go as far as to suggest that we add 1956 to this month's search and add ayear
each month so that next month we were looking at 1957, 1979 and 1982 and
that by the end of 2008 we will have visited all years between 1956 and1992,
but no more than that.

5) If you didn't do a good job of confusing the masses - then I sure have.

6) It's always fun to wake the sleeping giant!!!

7) What have you done - well for me it's spark enthusiasm for seldom worked
on eras (the 80's and beyond) of my collection.  With classes beginning on
Friday (School Law) I can't say how long my enthusiasm will last but fornow
I'm pleased to be participating.

Well this Morganesque ramble will have to come to an end, I applaud you
if you have stayed with me this far - BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ------------------ MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "uthminsta1" 

Hey everyone. Looks like this was successful. So far I've seen
ELEVEN 1980 wantlists, from Bill Ashton, Brian Betza, Larry Gersbach,
Joel Gyselinck, Rick Lyons, Tom Massimo, Mike Mroz, Don Rice, Mike
Rich, Mark Talbot, and of course myself. If there's anyone I left
out, I did not get your list.

I've checked them all and have a few to send out to Ashton, Gersh,
Mroz, Talbot. I'm going to wait until the next round to put a few
more cards with them though.

The flurry of activity has got me thinking about several things, and I
think it might help to get a little input from the players (you)!

1. This one's simple. I just don't know the answer. How does hockey
card dating work, alongside the other sports? I mean, if we're
working on 1980, which year of hockey belongs, 1979-80 or 1980-81? I
just assumed that the 1979-80 were the ones that came out in 1980, so
they would be the ones that would go in. But honestly, when I star! ted
this, I didn't even think about hockey (sorry hockey fans, don't throw
a puck at me).

2. There have been a couple guys (Steve Rittenberg and Mike Mroz who
have done work on webpages that could host a compilation of wantlists,
to simplify what we're doing. I really like this idea, but I don't
want one person to have to do a lot of compiling. Do either of these
webpages have the capability to give all the guys in OBC the chance to
input and update their own material? If so, and it's user-friendly, I
say we should definitely pursue that!!!

3. Would it be simpler to have everyone JUST write their wants, or
JUST to post their availables? I know that there have been people who
posted a wantlist, and a few minutes later someone posted that they
had several hundred dupes from that same set. Perhaps going to a
thematically-aligned (or year-by-year) webpage (like the one Steve is
suggesting) would solve this problem. Everyone puts! their wantlist on
the new page, then everyone puts their availables on the wantlist
server, so that everyone can read what's up for grabs.

4. Hey, I know there's still activity on 1980 stuff, but if you're
like me, you're already thinking about 1979. A couple of people have
suggested we do more years at once, but as I said earlier, there have
been 11 wantlists to read over, and I think 14-15 lists of availables
to consider. And packages to prepare. Envelopes to lick. Etc. And
my two small children to play with!!! So do you guys think it would
be OK to wait a couple days for the flurry of 1980-activity to die
down before we do 1979?

5. Did I just confuse everyone even more?
6. Is everyone enjoying this?!!?
7. What in the world have I done???!

=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:30:13 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] am i missing something?

I like yer ideas, Gary, but I think anything newer than 30 years could be considered

I'm just young enough to be willing to be happy enough to allow thirty yearold
cards to be considered "vintage."

I'll never argue those who think 30 years is just not old enough, but less than
that, doesn't work for me.

I dunno where this number came to me, but nevertheless, I still like it.  Screw
the moving target; thirty years is vintage, anything less is "trash."

----- Original Message -----
From: smartalecx@aol.com
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 7:50 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] am i missing something?

in all of this conversation, did anyone suggest that obc should cover anything
more recent than 1980 baseball?   i keep reading comments about it, butexcept
for one person saying we should add 5 years every 5 years (which i dont
agree with), i havent seen anyone suggest it.

what i did suggest was that, if we work on a who collects what webpage, that
if someone wants to list other sets or sports, that would be fine.  its not
in your face server postings about it, its a simple list.  if you dont want
to see who is collecting what, dont look.

look at the directory page now.  there is plenty of mention of non-baseballsets
being collected.  i havent read my blurb in a while, but i think i mention
football and even beatles cards. is anyone offended by that?

while i too dont want to read a lot about uv trading on the thanks server, i
dont mind reading about it on the uv server if i choose to.  and i certainly
post thanks for each and every hit i get, uv or not.  i just use the correct
server for it.  i know for a fact there are an awful lot of us that try
to complete the most recent topps set each year.  so if someone goes to a
group web page and sees that i am working on the 2008 topps set, would ANYONE
in obc seriously be offended?  i wont thank anyone on the obc thanks server,
but i will on the uv server.

seriously, is that a problem for anyone?

can we stop the debate about what's uv or not?  does it matter?  as far as i
know, the only thing it effects is whether or not we can have a particular
set listed on the wantlist page that we link to our name in the directory.

if you want to see my uv list, you can find a link to it on my "obc approved"

tnx for letting me rant.  i see the fun being taken out of this hobby, and sure
hope we can nip it in the bud.

now, who wants to buy an extra chrome refractor matrix SP black diamond redlettered
PSA graded autographed 1 of 1 fukodome game used toenail clippingthat
i have?

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:37:29 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] am i missing something?

Yo bubba, but not just Bob, or anyone else.  I speak for myself, and as always,
I speak for what I believe is what is best for our group as a whole, and
for us Colorado commuters.

Make it snow, snow deep in the foothills; and keep yerself save; let's playhooky
2morrow and take the day off to go skiing !!!

----- Original Message -----
From: biggies@aol.com
To: Smartalecx@aol.com ; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] am i missing something?

Sorry if anyone was offended.

Actually it was suggested by someone that the vintage bar be moved.

I was the one who said that we might slide the bar every 5 years as an agreement
with that suggestion. Since then argument against it has swayed me and
in very Romneyesque fashion, I have changed my position. I don't collect anything
post 1980 so my position was really more sympathetic than anything,
but I yield to greater minds.
But I think some people find the fun in this hobby within the discussion. What
else do we do, but talk about cardboard. I want you to rant. I want everyone
to rant. OBC has a great reputation of Cardboard Academics and has also
long been held as the place where curmudgeon traders might come to fade away.
A place where opinions race and sometimes stink but should always have
a place.
I was a new guy for a very long time and may still seem it to some, and always
felt like I was swimming somewhat up the OBC stream, but when the last flipped
card settles I find great fraternal kinship here.

I think our strength is in our ability to find difference.

So lets not stifle any voices and hear them all respectfully but debate theother
side freely and respectfully.

And finally, we always have the option of not listening and certainly not participating
in any discussion. But I for 1 would like to have more choicesto

Respectfully,  BB

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 01:11:53 EST
To: talbot1@comcast.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: directorth@aol.com
Subject: Re: Who collects what

In order to protect what's left of my reputation ("street cred" as the kids
today might say), I must offer, nay demand, the following correction:

A certain Mr. Talbot (also known by the thug-like alias "Snake") stated:
>>I understand that Tom Housley just purchased a wax box of `81 Fleer at the
local card shop to jump start his `81 list. The store owner was probably
dancing in the isles to get rid of that product as well<<

Sir, you wound me! I must state for the record that my purchase was limited
to approximately 15 cards, not the aforementioned and potentially slanderous
"wax box."

(Of course a wax box o'those puppies would probably run about 3 bucks, which
is the sum total of what I paid for the variations I found! And Mr. Store
Owner was in the back room the entire time playing fantasy football).

A hopefully somewhat-humorous retort & reply to the subject d'jour.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:51:08 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "uthminsta1" 
Subject: perhaps it's time I apologized.

Hi.  I'm the naive idiot who started this mess.  And I really didn't
mean to.  I am sorry.

It's been such a mixed blessing.  For a couple days I felt great.  I
had an idea that seemed to be accepted by a lot of people.  It made me
smile to see so many people posting their 1980 lists on the wantlist
server... and their 1981 lists on the UV server... and it looked like
people were happy to ask, happy to offer, happy to send, excited about
the idea, having a generally good time of it.

Then so many variables got brought in (some by me, some by others) and
now people are nearly saying they want to leave the group.  Sheesh.
If anyone should leave, it should be me.  And I will if I've made some
unpardonable mistake.  I certainly hope not, because I count it a
privilege to be accepted in such a fellowship.  Just a few days ago I
looked at some pictures of an OBC gathering at a show, and thought to
myself how much I would like to meet you people in person... and
actually get to know you... and give you tons of cards, and even more

Here is a link to the post I originally made, where I asked if the
term UV could be redefined:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/message/16579
I tried to make it clear that it was a question, not my unmovable
stance.  I also thought it was clear that I thought UV stuff should
not be pushed on the OBC site and server, because we have a separate
server for that very thing.

I've somehow stepped on a lot of toes, and didn't even know I was
doing it.  So once again, I am sorry.  If there is anyone in
particular that I have offended, please email me individually and I
hope we can work it out.  But here in front of the whole group, I
don't know what else to say.  Right now, I feel that the more I say
the worse it's getting.  I don't want to be misunderstood.  I simply
wanted to start a fun new project, and see how it went.  I personally
would be fine to not get a single card out of this project, if only
people would have fun with it and help each other out a little.

I'm not a member of 5 or 6 online trading groups.  I'm a member of
one.  And that's how I'd like it to stay.

Honored to be a OBC member since November 2005

=================

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 23:45:12 -0800 (PST)
To: smartalecx@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] am i missing something?

----- Original Message ----
From: "smartalecx@aol.com" 
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:50:45 AM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] am i missing something?

now, who wants to buy an extra chrome refractor matrix SP black diamond red lettered PSA graded autographed 1 of 1 fukodome game used toenail clipping that i have?

Hey!! I've got one of those!!

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

To: "uthminsta1" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:30:13 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] perhaps it's time I apologized.

Give yourself a break Aaron.  You have never lived through one of these "What is vintage?" discussions, many of us have.  They tend to follow much the same pattern with guys spouting off about this pet peeve and that, don't take any of it personally.  It's usually a rookie that begins the discussion with a simple premise and it takes on a life of its own.  I mean even Gary Mandell, a veteran of heated discussions started a flurry of discussion on "other sports", when that's all he wanted to do was bring something to the OBC-AC's attention - DON'T WORRY ABOUT THESE THINGS - we are all friends in this group and we all have our collecting preferences.  Take a deep breath Aaron, no one wants you to leave the group over this.  BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ----------------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "uthminsta1" 
Hi. I'm the naive idiot who started this mess. And I really didn't
mean to. I am sorry.

It's been such a mixed blessing. For a couple days I felt great. I
had an idea that seemed to be accepted by a lot of people. It made me
smile to see so many people posting their 1980 lists on the wantlist
server... and their 1981 lists on the UV server... and it looked like
people were happy to ask, happy to offer, happy to send, excited about
the idea, having a generally good time of it.

Then so many variables got brought in (some by me, some by others) and
now people are nearly saying they want to leave the group. Sheesh.
If anyone should leave, it should be me. And I will if I've made some
unpardonable mistake. I certainly hope not, because I count it a
privilege to be accepted in such a fellowship. Just a few days ago I
looked at some pictures of an OBC gathering at a show, and thought to
myself how much I would like to meet you people in person... and
actually get to know you... and give you tons of cards, and even more

Here is a link to the post I originally made, where I asked if the
term UV could be redefined:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/message/16579
I tried to make it clear that it was a question, not my unmovable
stance. I also thought it was clear that I thought UV stuff should
not be pushed on the OBC site and server, because we have a separate
server for that very thing.

I've somehow stepped on a lot of toes, and didn't even know I was
doing it. So once again, I am sorry. If there is anyone in
particular that I have offended, please email me individually and I
hope we can work it out. But here in front of the whole group, I
don't know what else to say. Right now, I feel that the more I say
the worse it's getting. I don't want to be misunderstood. I simply
wanted to start a fun new project, and see how it went. I personally
would be fine to not get a single card out of this project, if only
people would have fun with it and help each other out a little.

I'm not a member of 5 or 6 online trading groups. I'm a member of
one. And that's how I'd like it to stay.

Honored to be a OBC member since November 2005

=================

To: "Marshall West" , 
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:48:21 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] card identify?

I have these listed as `68 - `79 Fleer Baseball Quiz cards.  I believe they were sold in packs of Major Leauge patches that also included Team Logo Quiz cards.  I have a number of these and I'm trying to get more, that's what I know - BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ------------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Marshall West" 
Does anyone know about this?  I just picked up a couple of "Official Baseball Quiz" cards, with 1968 on the front, taller than standard cards, questions and answers in the middle, blank back, and 7 team logos on the bottom.  What in the heck are these?  Maybe Fleer?

Thanks ahead of time.

Marshall West

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 01:29:47 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Address change

I've decided to start directing OBC material to my work address. I already do this with any purchases from ebay, Amazon, etc.

Essentially, it saves me a trip to the Post Office if for any reason the mailman can't get an item through our rather tiny mailslot.

The new address is:

Glenn Codere
Clifton House, Clifton Place
GLASGOW   G3 7LN
United Kingdom

This address can be used with immediate effect.

Don't all rush at once!

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
=================

To: "uthminsta1" ,
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 05:34:51 -0500
From: "Jim Beauchemin" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] perhaps it's time I apologized.

Yep.  What Mark said.  In fact, I personally got my ebay handle, "pernongrat",
as in persona non grata, from just such an incident when I first joinedback
in '98 or so.  One of the veterans at the time bashed me for my rookie
mistake, and my feathers were considerably ruffled.  We go through these cycles
every once in a while.

----- Original Message -----
From: talbot1@comcast.net
To: uthminsta1 ; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] perhaps it's time I apologized.

Give yourself a break Aaron.  You have never lived through one of these "What
is vintage?" discussions, many of us have.  They tend to follow much the
same pattern with guys spouting off about this pet peeve and that, don'ttake
any of it personally.  It's usually a rookie that begins the discussion
with a simple premise and it takes on a life of its own.  I mean even Gary
Mandell, a veteran of heated discussions started a flurry of discussion on
"other sports", when that's all he wanted to do was bring something to the
OBC-AC's attention - DON'T WORRY ABOUT THESE THINGS - we are all friendsin
this group and we all have our collecting preferences.  Take a deep breath
Aaron, no one wants you to leave the group over this.  BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ----------------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "uthminsta1" 

Hi. I'm the naive idiot who started this mess. And I really didn't
mean to. I am sorry.

It's been such a mixed blessing. For a couple days I felt great. I
had an idea that seemed to be accepted by a lot of people. It made me
smile to see so many people posting their 1980 lists on the wantlist
server... and their 1981 lists on the UV server... and it looked like
people were happy to ask, happy to offer, happy to send, excited about
the idea, having a generally good time of it.

Then so many variables got brought in (some by me, some by others) and
now people are nearly saying they want to leave the group. Sheesh.
If anyone should leave, it should be me. And I will if I've made some
unpardonable mistake. I certainly hope not, because I count it a
privilege to be accepted in such a fellowship. Just a few days ago I
looked at some pictures of an OBC gathering at a show, and thought to
myself how much I would like to meet you people i n person... and
actually get to know you... and give you tons of cards, and even more

Here is a link to the post I originally made, where I asked if the
term UV could be redefined:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/message/16579
I tried to make it clear that it was a question, not my unmovable
stance. I also thought it was clear that I thought UV stuff should
not be pushed on the OBC site and server, because we have a separate
server for that very thing.

I've somehow stepped on a lot of toes, and didn't even know I was
doing it. So once again, I am sorry. If there is anyone in
particular that I have offended, please email me individually and I
hope we can work it out. But here in front of the whole group, I
don't know what else to say. Right now, I feel that the more I say
the worse it's getting. I don't want to be misund erstood. I simply
wanted to start a fun new project, and see how it went. I personally
would be fine to not get a single card out of this project, if only
people would have fun with it and help each other out a little.

I'm not a member of 5 or 6 online trading groups. I'm a member of
one. And that's how I'd like it to stay.

Honored to be a OBC member since November 2005

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 05:13:39 -0800 (PST)
To: uthminsta1 , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Geno Wagner 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] perhaps it's time I apologized.

Aaron --

Your idea was great - it seems to have generated a lot
of trading and a lot of interest.  As far as the other
stuff, don't worry about it - it's just people
thinking out loud...

Take Care,

--- uthminsta1  wrote:

> Hi.  I'm the naive idiot who started this mess.  And
> I really didn't
> mean to.  I am sorry.
> It's been such a mixed blessing.  For a couple days
> I felt great.  I
> had an idea that seemed to be accepted by a lot of
> people.  It made me
> smile to see so many people posting their 1980 lists
> on the wantlist
> server... and their 1981 lists on the UV server...
> and it looked like
> people were happy to ask, happy to offer, happy to
> send, excited about
> the idea, having a generally good time of it.
> Then so many variables got brought in (some by me,
> some by others) and
> now people are nearly saying they want to leave the
> group.  Sheesh.
> If anyone should leave, it should be me.  And I will
> if I've made some
> unpardonable mistake.  I certainly hope not, because
> I count it a
> privilege to be accepted in such a fellowship.  Just
> a few days ago I
> looked at some pictures of an OBC gathering at a
> show, and thought to
> myself how much I would like to meet you people in
> person... and
> actually get to know you... and give you tons of
> cards, and even more
> thanks!
> Here is a link to the post I originally made, where
> I asked if the
> term UV could be redefined:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/message/16579
> I tried to make it clear that it was a question, not
> my unmovable
> stance.  I also thought it was clear that I thought
> UV stuff should
> not be pushed on the OBC site and server, because we
> have a separate
> server for that very thing.
> I've somehow stepped on a lot of toes, and didn't
> even know I was
> doing it.  So once again, I am sorry.  If there is
> anyone in
> particular that I have offended, please email me
> individually and I
> hope we can work it out.  But here in front of the
> whole group, I
> don't know what else to say.  Right now, I feel that
> the more I say
> the worse it's getting.  I don't want to be
> misunderstood.  I simply
> wanted to start a fun new project, and see how it
> went.  I personally
> would be fine to not get a single card out of this
> project, if only
> people would have fun with it and help each other
> out a little.
> I'm not a member of 5 or 6 online trading groups.
> I'm a member of
> one.  And that's how I'd like it to stay.
> Aaron
> Honored to be a OBC member since November 2005

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:14:26 EST
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: directorth@aol.com
Subject: Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

Aaron, My 2 cents here? You have nothing to apologize for, & please don't
even entertain the idea of stepping away from the group. You gave us a little
project to get the cardboard moving, & asked some innocent questions -questions
which can & should occassionally be re-visited. Sure, some of the replies have
been spirited, but that's OK. We are a community (a family really), and no one
is going to agree 100% of the time with everyone else. If we took a vote of
the entire membership I'd bet real money that no one would want you or anyone
to leave over such a trivial issue.

I am reminded of the scene in The Godfather when Clemenza tells Michael
something to the effect that (when speaking about the Mafia gang wars, when Mike
was about to gun the Turk) "we need these things every 10 years or". Only with
OBC it's every couple of years & there's hopefully a little less bloodshed!

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:37:11 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

So, what would be the OBC equivalent of "sleeping with da fishes"?

"OK, Shoiley....for yer suggestion, we're gonna have ta downgrade yer condition from near mint to Tipton........VERY Tipton"

----- Original Message ----
From: "directorth@aol.com" 
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:14:26 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

Aaron, My 2 cents here? You have nothing to apologize for, & please don't even entertain the idea of stepping away from the group. You gave us a little project to get the cardboard moving, & asked some innocent questions -questions which can & should occassionally be re-visited. Sure, some of the replies have been spirited, but that's OK. We are a community (a family really), and no one is going to agree 100% of the time with everyone else. If we took a vote of the entire membership I'd bet real money that no one would want you or anyone to leave over such a trivial issue.

I am reminded of the scene in The Godfather when Clemenza tells Michael something to the effect that (when speaking about the Mafia gang wars, when Mike was about to gun the Turk) "we need these things every 10 years or". Only with OBC it's every couple of years & there's hopefully a little less bloodshed!

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:52:35 -0800 (PST)
To: Glenn Codere ,
From: Matthew 
Subject: Re: OBC for dead

Definitely! How about "let's give him some significant back damage" or the way-too-creepy "it's time to get skinned."

----- Original Message ----
From: Glenn Codere 
To: OBC Ramblings 
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 9:37:11 AM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

So, what would be the OBC equivalent of "sleeping with da fishes"?

"OK, Shoiley....for yer suggestion, we're gonna have ta downgrade yer condition from near mint to Tipton........VERY Tipton"

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 07:10:28 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: OBC for dead

How about "He kept talkin' UV trash on the Ramblings server, see, so we had to send him out to get slabbed"

Said in your best James Cagney voice, or with the simple addition of a few key expletives, Joe Pesci!

----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew 
To: Glenn Codere ; OBC Ramblings 
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:52:35 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: OBC for dead

Definitely! How about "let's give him some significant back damage" or the way-too-creepy "it's time to get skinned."

----- Original Message ----
From: Glenn Codere 
To: OBC Ramblings 
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 9:37:11 AM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

So, what would be the OBC equivalent of "sleeping with da fishes"?

"OK, Shoiley....for yer suggestion, we're gonna have ta downgrade yer condition from near mint to Tipton...... ..VERY Tipton"

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
=================

To: directorth@aol.com, uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:32:38 +0000
From: tvalacak@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

Aaron, I agree with the masses.  What you have done is sparked some exchanging of cards, some checking of wantlists, and some discussion of a hobbythat we all love.  Don't sweat it.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: directorth@aol.com
Aaron, My 2 cents here? You have nothing to apologize for, & please don't even entertain the idea of stepping away from the group. You gave us a little project to get the cardboard moving, & asked some innocent questions -questions which can & should occassionally be re-visited. Sure, some of the replies have been spirited, but that's OK. We are a community (a family really), and no one is going to agree 100% of the time with everyone else. If we took a vote of the entire membership I'd bet real money that no one would want you or anyone to leave over such a trivial issue.

I am reminded of the scene in The Godfather when Clemenza tells Michael something to the effect that (when speaking about the Mafia gang wars, when Mike was about to gun the Turk) "we need these things every 10 years or". Only with OBC it's every couple of years & there's hopefully a little less bloodshed!

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

=================

To: "'Glenn Codere'" ,
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:14:39 -0500
From: "Bob Donaldson" 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

I think the equivelant of "sleeping with da fishes" might be slabbing as in
"watch it or you'll end up in a slab"

From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Glenn Codere
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:37 AM
To: OBC Ramblings
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

So, what would be the OBC equivalent of "sleeping with da fishes"?

"OK, Shoiley....for yer suggestion, we're gonna have ta downgrade yer
condition from near mint to Tipton........VERY Tipton"


----- Original Message ----
From: "directorth@aol.com" 
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:14:26 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

Aaron, My 2 cents here? You have nothing to apologize for, & please don't
even entertain the idea of stepping away from the group. You gave us a
little project to get the cardboard moving, & asked some innocent questions
-questions which can & should occassionally be re-visited. Sure, some of the
replies have been spirited, but that's OK. We are a community (a family
really), and no one is going to agree 100% of the time with everyone else.
If we took a vote of the entire membership I'd bet real money that no one
would want you or anyone to leave over such a trivial issue.

I am reminded of the scene in The Godfather when Clemenza tells Michael
something to the effect that (when speaking about the Mafia gang wars, when
Mike was about to gun the Turk) "we need these things every 10 years or".
Only with OBC it's every couple of years & there's hopefully a little less

Start the year off right. Easy

ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
  it now.

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:17:02 -0500
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

See attachment...I have way too much time on my hands....

---- Bob Donaldson  wrote:
> I think the equivelant of "sleeping with da fishes" might be slabbing as in
> "watch it or you'll end up in a slab"
>   _____
> From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Glenn Codere
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:37 AM
> To: OBC Ramblings
> Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.
> So, what would be the OBC equivalent of "sleeping with da fishes"?
> "OK, Shoiley....for yer suggestion, we're gonna have ta downgrade yer
> condition from near mint to Tipton........VERY Tipton"
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "directorth@aol.com" 
> To: uthminsta@hotmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:14:26 PM
> Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.
> Aaron, My 2 cents here? You have nothing to apologize for, & please don't
> even entertain the idea of stepping away from the group. You gave us a
> little project to get the cardboard moving, & asked some innocent questions
> -questions which can & should occassionally be re-visited. Sure, some of the
> replies have been spirited, but that's OK. We are a community (a family
> really), and no one is going to agree 100% of the time with everyone else.
> If we took a vote of the entire membership I'd bet real money that no one
> would want you or anyone to leave over such a trivial issue.
> I am reminded of the scene in The Godfather when Clemenza tells Michael
> something to the effect that (when speaking about the Mafia gang wars, when
> Mike was about to gun the Turk) "we need these things every 10 years or".
> Only with OBC it's every couple of years & there's hopefully a little less
> bloodshed!
> Tom
> Start the year off right. Easy
> 
> ways to stay in shape in the new year.
>   _____
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
>  DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20>  it now.

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:18:25 -0500 (EST)
To: 
From: 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.

Now that, my friends, is funny!

> See attachment...I have way too much time on my hands....
> ---- Bob Donaldson  wrote:
>> I think the equivelant of "sleeping with da fishes" might be slabbing as
>> in "watch it or you'll end up in a slab"
>>   _____
>> From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Codere
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:37 AM
>> To: OBC Ramblings
>> Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.
>> So, what would be the OBC equivalent of "sleeping with da fishes"?
>> "OK, Shoiley....for yer suggestion, we're gonna have ta downgrade yer
>> condition from near mint to Tipton........VERY Tipton"
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: "directorth@aol.com" 
>> To: uthminsta@hotmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:14:26 PM
>> Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re:perhaps it's time I apologized.
>> Aaron, My 2 cents here? You have nothing to apologize for, & please
>> don't even entertain the idea of stepping away from the group. You gave
>> us a little project to get the cardboard moving, & asked some innocent
>> questions -questions which can & should occassionally be re-visited.
>> Sure, some of the replies have been spirited, but that's OK. We are a
>> community (a family really), and no one is going to agree 100% of the
>> time with everyone else. If we took a vote of the entire membership I'd
>> bet real money that no one would want you or anyone to leave over such a
>> trivial issue.
>> I am reminded of the scene in The Godfather when Clemenza tells Michael
>> something to the effect that (when speaking about the Mafia gang wars,
>> when Mike was about to gun the Turk) "we need these things every 10
>> years or". Only with OBC it's every couple of years & there's hopefully
>> a little less bloodshed!
>> Tom
>> Start the year off right. Easy
>> 
>> ways to stay in shape in the new year.
>>   _____
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
>> > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20>  it now.

=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:34:41 -0800 (PST)
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Joel GYselinck 
Subject: It's a fantastic day at the Hall Of Fame

The Goose is in... what a day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:00:13 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Before there was Morganti-esque, there was Chico-esque...

The drugs must have kicked in from my broken nose surgery  today...Everything
seems to have gone well. I even have what they call a "nose  cast"!  Wow have
we made advances in medicine or what???

Excellent discussion so far gentlemen.  We have gone down this road  before.
Remember, when OBC started in its present form, 1980 was only 15 years
earlier. Around 2000 we had this discussion. I made a suggestion that we add 1  year
to the OBC set every 3-5 years. That was quickly shot down. And I  understand
the reasoning. We took 1980 for what has already been spoken about.  The
influx of Fleer and Donruss, the massive amounts of cards that flooded the  hobby,
the overproduction, etc.  After a few "rides" in the car and cement  shoe
fittings, we kept the dates in tact. In hind site, I believe this was the  right
thing to do. We are a vintage card group.

Next point- I don't have a problem with people adding hockey or basketball
to their ramblings. Years ago when we were much smaller, finding items for
someone became tough for some because many lists pretty much expired. I just
couldn't get my hands on a Mantle rookie to send out (you get the idea). Hell,
Long Island is as tough a place to find old cards as there is. I went to a show
this weekend trying to find some paybacks and didn't find a damn thing. Only
one  table had anything close to what I was looking for (and that was Danny-
who a  few local OBCers know). Guys like Steve and Ken actually started
working on 2nd,  3rd and 4th sets just so guys might be able to find something to
send to them  (Kudos for those who did this, they kept activity running). As
long as the  "other" sports cards fall under vintage, I think its great. I've
also learned  about other sets from these postings and expanded my meager card
knowledge.  Eddie Giacomin would be my "other" sports HOMer. I have Jets,
Knicks, Nets,  Islanders want lists. I don't post my needs too often unless I am in
"hero"  territory. Those lists are on my web page. My needs have their own
links, so you  don't have to go thru all the other sports to get to my vintage
baseball. In  reading some of these posts, my interest in beginning the Beatles
color set  has been rejuvenated and I might start it.

Another thing I personally don't have a problem with is if someone adds a  UV
thanks to their list of thanks. ie- if someone got a 56, 68, 71, 75 mini and
a 94 fleer, it doesn't bother me they added the fleer to thanks. Saves me
from  getting another email. Now if you only got UV, then direct it to the proper
server. Combining thanks works well for me, can save as many as 3-5 separate
emails to look through.

Aaron, debate and discussion has been going on in this group for ages.
Because of these discussions, we have the OBCAC. A few might remember that  period
of time. Damn near broke OBC apart until Jim Montgomery put together an
advisory board (I was an original member of that) where the present rules for
engagement (some say the articles of confederation) were established.  We  have
made changes over the years as we grew. Out of this, some good and great  things
will come about. Always has, always will. If you want my email from way  back
when on the origins of the OBCAC and such and the fighting that took place
then, let me know and I'll forward that over.  "I may not agree with what  you
say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Patrick  Henry.

Family was mentioned. We are a tremendous family here. Ups and  downs, birth
and death, marriage and divorce. This group has gotten many  through some
rough roads. Me and Kent go back to the real early days of OBC  and he is one of
my closest OBC buds. I look forward to every National where we  can hang out
together. There is NOTHING like when we all get together en masse.  If any of
you guys have the chance to do the National, DO IT!  Even guys we  have never
met in person are warmly welcomed and I know every "National Rookie"  has had
his/her eyes opened to how cool a group of folks we have here. We have  never
met a cardboard stranger. Let me tell you, Larry Zurawski is one tall  Mofo! (no
comments Kent, I know I'm one short SOB lol!)

Other things that caught my eye in these series of emails....

Sending out waiver wires.  I really like this idea and has helped me  out
tremendously. When I do a wavier wire, I try to make sure everyone who sends  a
request gets something. I break down who asked for what and split requests
seeing who may need what more. When I try to hit a list directly, I get more
depressed in that I sometimes just can't find anything. With the wavier wire,
guys have requested stuff I had no idea they would like. Or they would tell me,
"I was thinking of starting that set", or "that is a cool card for my type
set".  Cards get out there to guys who I didn't think I had something for. I'm
sure  others feel good about sending out wavier wires too. Not to mention,
sometimes  it does make it easier with the insane hours I work.

The "year" concept.  I am really loving this idea. This would help me  work
heavily on my "supp" list and allow me to get rid of lots of 80s stuff. My
thought would be to make the year available at least 2 weeks (probably a month).
If its too short, guys will feel too obligated or just pressured and they
will  fall off. My 80s cards (and I have LOTS) are buried in the deepest depths
of my  card closet. Rob said it best.  If I lost my 3600 count box of 84-86
cards  I would not feel the pain as much as someone running off with my 500 box
of  VARIATIONS!  My only question (and I think I read all the emails, but may
have missed this) is how do we avoid everyone sending a 1980 common that is
needed to one person? They might need one card, but not 15 of them.   Keeping
the lists updated will be key here I guess. Maybe just a separate  "email"
group would be needed just for this project, composed of the lists, the  wants,
the thanks. _OBC_YearlyCardProject@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:OBC_YearlyCardProject@yahoogroups.com) ,  something like that. we can also do one pre 80s and one
post 80s so we would  work on 2 years in one month, keep the vintage guys
happy and the "younger"  members who think 40 year olds are OLD into the trading
(I remember when Josh  was a young whippersnapper!).

George had a good idea. I am not familiar with everyone's email. How about
you just pop your name at the bottom in signing off?

Walker, I WHOLE HEARTEDLY endorse your ebay idea. How come I have to wait
for my feedback to be posted before I get feedback?  I usually am looking  at an
item as it closes and send payment within 5 minutes of its ending. My
feedback is perfect. So if I did my part and the other party screws up, does  that
mean I can't send a neutral for fear of retaliatory feedback?

Well if you have gotten this far, you get my nomination for OBC Hall Of
Fame. (Speaking of which, why don't we have one? Set up a page dedicated to  those
individuals who get voted in about their influence on this group. Jim
Montgomery is my first ballot OBC-HOFer).

And Morganti-esque needs to be added to the OBC dictionary as well as a

Well that does it for now. I'm sure I'll be taking more painkillers over  the
next few days....

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:48:54 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Mike Mroz" 
Subject: Vintage vs. UV

Hi All,

Since reading the recent "all hell breaking loose" posts, I have
been doing a bit of quiet reflection and have decided to post a few
thoughts of my own.  First of all, I regret ever losing the passion
years ago for cards and collecting.  I collected cards from 1972 (my
dad bought me my first wax pack during a trip with him to Kings
Drugs at age 6 - funny how we remember these things, huh?) until
after high school in the mid-80's.  I worked for a candy and tobacco
wholesaler back then and used to go through cello boxes after work
looking for good rookies on top - shame on me.

At that point I decided baseball values were getting out of hand and
decided to collect hockey, which I have a passion for and I also
loved the fact that sets were a fraction of the size of baseball.
It also helped that NOBODY collected hockey back then and cards were
very cheap - hell all anybody cared about were '81 Fleer errors, and
Boggs, Mattingly and Strawberry rookies.  I finished up a few sets
and then promptly met my ex-wife, got married and "gave up" the
hobby, since I couldn't afford it back then.  After not quite a
decade, I promptly got divorced and sold a bunch of 60's and 70's
star BB cards to finance that "deal".

Anyway, sorry for digressing, but I have tried collecting evreything
from beer cans to coins; from stamps to die-cast cars and NOTHING
really compares to CARDS.  And what I have really come to realize is
that its all in the set completion for me.  Adding that last card in
a set gives me such a high!  There is really no other collectible
out there that compares - you have a list and you check every last
one off and finally you are done - kinda like finishing a really
good book - the high is so great, but then there's that little bit
of letdown afterward.

My last point is actually the title of this post.  While I keep
hearing about vintage vs. UV, I think it's a bit more complicated
than that.  I see a few more "eras", which I define as follows:

Pre-WWII - The True Vintage Era - Need I say more?
1948-1973 - The Topps Era - Dominated by Topps, with a few
exceptions, and cards issued in series.
1974-1980 - The Market Maturity Era - No more series, cards were
beginning to be marketed toward adults, the innocence is gone.
1981-1988 - The Commercialization Era - Fleer and Donruss emerge and
massive overproduction begins.
1989-present - The Greed Era - More companies (and sets) emerge and
we go from the 60's collecting philosophy (where the cards were kept
and the inserts were tossed) to the 90's collecting philosophy
(where the inserts are kept and the cards are tossed)

If you made it this far, you deserve a medal (or at least a 1984
Topps Leon Durham), but all-in-all, I long for the days of finding a
box of cards in the cardy aisle of the drug store.  They were
usually under the Bubble Yum and next to the Snickers, and carried
the same retail price as the Snickers (well, at least as the
Snickers King Size).

Sorry for the long post (I believe the term is "Morganti-esque") and
thanks for listening...

Mike Mroz

=================

To: "vct" ,
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:15:49 -0500
From: "ant" 
Subject: promotion a-do

Hello All,
For those who do not know have been,for a long time, the Regional ExecutiveChef
for the Grand Hyatt Hotel overseeing 21 other Hotels. It has been in the
works for over 1 year and finally came to pass. I have officially givenup
the Chef's Hat & all the "fame" to move up to a Food & Beverage Director
in the same Hotel. Tuff decision to change, but my goals will be set on becoming
a General Manager of a Hotel in the future versus a Corporate Chef.
I will still keep my tag name as chefant but the journey into a Suit is going
to be a challenge.
Thanks for your time on this non-sport card issue

Anthony Arbeeny
=================

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:10:32 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] promotion a-do

Does this mean Ant just went from a Vintage Chef to a UV Director because  of
the suit? They do tend to be shiny or at least you look it wearing one... So
when is the farewell cook-down Iron Chef? And good luck in the new position!
I  wonder if there are local grand hyatt's in Chicago?  We can bring you in as
the guest Chef for the Saturday swap meet!

In a message dated 1/8/2008 10:16:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
senthi@earthlink.net writes:

Hello All,
For those who do not know have been,for a long  time, the Regional Executive
Chef for the Grand Hyatt Hotel overseeing 21  other Hotels. It has been in the
works for over 1 year and finally came  to pass. I have officially given up
the Chef's Hat & all the "fame" to  move up to a Food & Beverage Director in
the same Hotel. Tuff decision to  change, but my goals will be set on becoming a
General Manager of a Hotel in  the future versus a Corporate Chef.
I will still keep my tag name as chefant but the  journey into a Suit is
going to be a challenge.
Thanks for your time on this non-sport card  issue

Anthony Arbeeny

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 05:39:08 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "rrrlyons" 
Subject: 80-81 project

I think we are close to coming up with a working plan with all the
ideas being thrown out there. On the directory we have member features
can we have a new one called year of the month or 2 weeks since 2 weeks
seem to be the prefered length. then everyone can add or subtract to it
I know there was some concern about everyone having access to one list
but it seem to be the best way to get everyone's list on the same page.
Making updates to it seems to be the problem not one person should have
to be responsible for the list. like the last person said I don't want
15 people sending me card # 456 so if we could all take care of our
part of the list by putting parentheses around numbers if people say
they can send it or just deleting the number. I know if we pick 1952
we're not going to have that problem but the newer years we could. At
the end of the time period delete it and pick a new year and start all
over. someone please prefect the idea even more Rick

=================

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:58:23 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Yet another suggestion.......

We seem to be presently enduring a rich vein of discussion and suggestions on how fine tune our little group of cardboard enthusiasts. I suppose now would be a good time for me to throw an idea against the wall and see if it sticks. It's actually quite a simple suggestion, which I don't believe requires any action by the OBCAC.

While perusing ebay or (when I get the chance) other purveyors of sports memorabilia, I often see a non-card item which I think might be of some interest to an OBCer. More often than not, the item is team-related in some way - say, for example, an old endorsed glove, or a book - and I start thinking about who I might send this to if I were to make the purchase. This can be fairly important if you're keen to send something to someone with a "tough to hit" card list. I'm sure that in many cases an off-the-wall item which relates to their own team might provide a great deal of enjoyment.

Here is where my suggestion comes in. We all know the team affiliations of many of our OBC compatriots. The FOOT guys, Steve Rittenberg and his Red Sox collection, Rick Svetecz's Phillies connection, etc. However, there are a BUNCH of guys who rarely give any indication of who they root for! Any Royals fans out there? How about the Cardinals? What I'd like to see is some easy way to match OBCers with their own team(s) of choice. And the answer lies right on your OBC Profile page.

I'd like to encourage everybody to include a simple indication of the team(s) that you follow in your profile "Preferences". We'd then have an easy reference point on the OBC Directory page, and I can tell right away who might appreciate that Dal Maxvill signed glove, or a game-used Paul Splittorff jock strap.

So c'mon guys! Update those Preferences lines today!!

Glasgow, Scotland

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:48:22 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "jimbo777777" 
Subject: One Lonely Leaf

Up for grabs on the waiver wire this morning is One Lonely Leaf, 1960,
Lee Walls, outfielder, Cinci Reds, card #111.

Lee's a bit on the beaten side.  He has three major creases, soft
corners, and a blue J written in blue ink on the back.  Despite all of
that, believe it or not, he still displays pretty well.  The creases
don't jump out at the viewer all that much unless he/she looks closely.

And, as always, you can't beat the price!  Free Shipping, satisfaction
guaranteed or your money back!  Please include address for quick

=================

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:10:34 -0800 (PST)
To: obc ramblings 
From: Matthew 
Subject: Wikipedia updates

Hi all,

Spent some time looking through the baseball entries on Wikipedia last night and noticed that their entry on baseball cards is OK, but nowhere near the comprehensive account it could be. Any other OBCers interested in helping fill it out? We could cross-check related items like Goudey, Topps, and so forth, for people who have that knowledge. (I'll leave the Old Judge updates for Ol' Griz.)

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
=================

To: 
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:52:32 -0500
From: Mac Wubben 
Subject: Scary Fakes on Ebay

Not sure how many of you follow the net54 board, but there has been a pretty
interesting discussion of fake PSA cards on there.  Really makes me appreciate
my well-loved cards.

One example of the (supposed) fakes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item320205240980

Interestingly, a bunch of these types of fakes were being sold on craigslist...so
that doesn't look like the best place to hunt for bargains.

I am always surprised that people want their hundred year old cardboard to look
like it was printed yesterday.  In the real game-used market, signs ofhonest
wear add to the value.  I think the same should be true of cards, although
that can be faked too.  I know I like seeing tobacco stains on my polar
bears, and caramel stains on my cracker jacks.  I also like a bit of vintage
fountain pen here and there, or some 50 year old cellophane tape.

I now return you to your 1980 discussion.

Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocidTXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008
=================

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:08:16 EST
To: obcmac@hotmail.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Scary Fakes on Ebay
Content-Language: en

just curious:  how do you know they are fakes?  wouldn't psa pick  up on that?

In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:52:57 AM Central Standard Time,
obcmac@hotmail.com writes:

Not sure how many of you follow the net54 board, but there has been a  pretty
interesting discussion of fake PSA cards on there.  Really makes  me
appreciate my well-loved cards.

One example of the (supposed)  fakes:
_http://cgi.ebay.http://cgi.ebay.http://cgi.eb&item320205240980_
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item320205240980)

Interestingly,  a bunch of these types of fakes were being sold on
craigslist..Interestingly,  a bunch of these types of fakes were being sold

I am  always surprised that people want their hundred year old cardboard to
look  like it was printed yesterday.  In the real game-used market, signs of
honest wear add to the value.  I think the same should be true of cards,
although that can be faked too.  I know I like seeing tobacco stains on  mypolar
bears, and caramel stains on my cracker jacks.  I also like a  bit of vintage
fountain pen here and there, or some 50 year old cellophane  tape.

I now return you to your 1980  discussion.

Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=E2=84=A2.
_Start now!_
(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocidTXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: , 
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:08:21 -0500
From: Mac Wubben 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Scary Fakes on Ebay

The tags are faked...(but with a real cert number), cases apparently can beopened,
then resealed in a difficult to detect manner.  Apparently fake low
grade mantles have been also been found...much more troubling for our group
than psa6 cobbs.  I'd like to see one of those fake Mantles.

To: obcmac@hotmail.com; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.comFrom: smartalecx@aol.comDate:
Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:08:16 -0500Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Scary Fakes
on Ebay

just curious:  how do you know they are fakes?  wouldn't psa pick up on that?

In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:52:57 AM Central Standard Time, obcmac@hotmail.com

Not sure how many of you follow the net54 board, but there has been a pretty
interesting discussion of fake PSA cards on there.  Really makes me appreciate
my well-loved cards. One example of the (supposed) fakes: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item320205240980
Interestingly, a bunch
of these types of fakes were being sold on craigslist...so that doesn't look
like the best place to hunt for bargains. I am always surprised that people
want their hundred year old cardboard to look like it was printed yesterday.
In the real game-used market, signs of honest wear add to the value.
I think the same should be true of cards, although that can be faked too.
I know I like seeing tobacco stains on my polar bears, and caramel stains
on my cracker jacks.  I also like a bit of vintage fountain pen here andthere,
or some 50 year old cellophane tape. I now return you to your 1980 discussion.

Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.Start

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real people making a real difference.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?sourcetext_watchcause
=================

To: ,
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:06:23 -0500
From: "Jim Beauchemin" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Fwd: Website for collectors

Yeah, I got it too.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Delott
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; vct@lists.vintagecardtraders.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:45 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Fwd: Website for collectors

Anybody get this email?

Jeffrey Delott

-----Original Message-----
From: Libby O'Sullivan 
To: info@collectzing.com
Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 6:23 pm
Subject: Website for collectors

FREE WEBSITE FOR COLLECTORS LAUNCHES
collectZing.com is a new, free, website just for collectors. Join
as an individual or as a club.
Members can upload images of their collectibles and showcase their
collections using the collectZing customized cataloging templates. Any
collection can be marked as private, just for friends, or for public exhibition.
collectZing also offers the Marketplace, where members can buy,
sell and swap their collectibles, with flexible options and no listing fees
or commissions during the beta period.
YOUR VERY OWN ONLINE CLUBROOM!
Ever feel days are shorter and shorter and you hardly have time
to do what=E2=99s necessary, let alone what you really love? If some of
your club members are unable to attend your meetings and membership is dropping
off, or you=E2=99re just looking for a better way to keep everyone
in touch - why not offer an online meeting place?
We can offer clubs a number of benefits so all members can be
engaged and involved when it suits them.
A Collector Club on collectZing.com offers your club its own website
address (www.collectzing.com/club/YourClubName). As a club, you decide
who is eligible to join, or you can make it open to the public. Memberscan
discuss topics in the Club forum, plus on request we can set up your very
own club email discussion list (YourClubName@collectzing.com), giving all
your members an easy way to communicate with each other all day every day.
If you=E2=99d like further information about signing your club
up for its very own online Collector Club please email us at .
If your club isn't ready to sign up to www.collectzing.com yet,
please make sure you let your members know about this fabulous, free service,
so they too can share their passion and knowledge with other collectors
around the world.
Kind regards

David Eedle

T:   +61 3 9863 9030
E:   david@collectZing.com
W: www.collectZing.com

This email, and any attachment, is confidential. If you are not theintended
recipient, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose
the information in any way, and notify the sender immediately.  Any views
expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may notbe
the views of the collectZing.com, unless specifically stated.  No warranty
is made that the e-mail or attachment (s) are free from computer viruses
or other defects.

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!

=================

To: 
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:53:26 -0600
From: "George Vrechek" 
Subject: Goodwin Goldfaden?

Have any of you met and/or dealt with Goodwin Goldfaden? I'm doing yet
another SCD article on hobby pioneers. Someone mentioned to me that
Goldfaden was still alive. This astounded me since he advertised as a dealer
(Adco Sports Book Exchange) in publications and cards starting in the 1930s.
He started collecting in 1925. If alive, he would be older than Lionel
Carter, Bob Solon, or any other collector I know. Well he is very much alive
and still advertising to buy and sell publications from his home in Sherman
Oaks, California. I talked to him last night for 30 minutes.

He had the first memorabilia store and has been featured in many
publications. He is 93 years old, lives with his wife and still drives.

If anyone has had any contact with him and would like to share a story or
two for the article, please let me know. Jim McConnell is a long-time
collector and writer and has shared some stories already.

George Vrechek

=================

To: "Mike Mroz" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:32:34 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Vintage vs. UV

Well put!!

REGARDS -------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Mroz" 
Hi All,

Since reading the recent "all hell breaking loose" posts, I have
been doing a bit of quiet reflection and have decided to post a few
thoughts of my own. First of all, I regret ever losing the passion
years ago for cards and collecting. I collected cards from 1972 (my
dad bought me my first wax pack during a trip with him to Kings
Drugs at age 6 - funny how we remember these things, huh?) until
after high school in the mid-80's. I worked for a candy and tobacco
wholesaler back then and used to go through cello boxes after work
looking for good rookies on top - shame on me.

At that point I decided baseball values were getting out of hand and
decided to collect hockey, which I have a passion for and I also
loved the fact that sets were a fraction of the size of baseball.
It also helped that NOBODY collected hockey back then and cards were
very cheap - hell all anybody cared about were '81 Fleer errors, and
Boggs, Mattingly and Strawberry rookies. I finished up a few sets
and then promptly met my ex-wife, got married and "gave up" the
hobby, since I couldn't afford it back then. After not quite a
decade, I promptly got divorced and sold a bunch of 60's and 70's
star BB cards to finance that "deal".

Anyway, sorry for digressing, but I have tried collecting evreything
from beer cans to coins; from stamps to die-cast cars and NOTHING
really compares to CARDS. And what I have really come to realize is
that its all in the set completion for me. Adding that last card in
a set gives me such a high! There is really no other collectible
out there that compares - you have a list and you check every last
one off and finally you are done - kinda like finishing a really
good book - the high is so great, but then there's that little bit
of letdown afterward.

My last point is actually the title of this post. While I keep
hearing about vintage vs. UV, I think it's a bit more complicated
than that. I see a few more "eras", which I define as follows:

Pre-WWII - The True Vintage Era - Need I say more?
1948-1973 - The Topps Era - Dominated by Topps, with a few
exceptions, and cards issued in series.
1974-1980 - The Market Maturity Era - No more series, cards were
beginning to be marketed toward adults, the innocence is gone.
1981-1988 - The Commercialization Era - Fleer and Donruss emerge and
massive overproduction begins.
1989-present - The Greed Era - More companies (and sets) emerge and
we go from the 60's collecting philosophy (where the cards were kept
and the inserts were tossed) to the 90's collecting philosophy
(where the inserts are kept and the cards are tossed)

If you made it this far, you deserve a medal (or at least a 1984
Topps Leon Durham), but all-in-all, I long for the days of finding a
box of cards in the cardy aisle of the drug store. They were
usually under the Bubble Yum and next to the Snickers, and carried
the same retail price as the Snickers (well, at least as the
Snickers King Size).

Sorry for the long post (I believe the term is "Morganti-esque") and
thanks for listening...

Mike Mroz

=================

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@lists.vintagecardtraders.com, Jeff Delott 
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:03:12 -0500
From: "obcjohn@knology.net" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Fwd: Website for collectors

Yep, I got it.  Sounds like somebody looked at us and at Net54.

On Wed Jan  9 19:45 , Jeff Delott  sent:

> Anybody get this email?
>Jeffrey Delott
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Libby O'Sullivan 
>To: info@collectzing.com
>Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 6:23 pm
>Subject: Website for collectors
>FREE WEBSITE FOR COLLECTORS LAUNCHES
>collectZing.com is a new, free, website just for
>    collectors. Join as an individual or as a club.
>Members can upload images of their collectibles and
>    showcase their collections using the collectZing customized catalogingtemplates.
>    Any collection can be marked as private, just for friends, or for public
>    exhibition.
>collectZing also offers the Marketplace, where members
>    can buy, sell and swap their collectibles, with flexible options and no
>    listing fees or commissions during the beta period.
>YOUR VERY OWN ONLINE CLUBROOM!
>Ever feel days are shorter and shorter and you hardly
>    have time to do what=E2=99s necessary, let alone what you really love?
>    some of your club members are unable to attend your meetings and membership
>    is dropping off, or you=E2=99re just looking for a better way to keep
>    everyone in touch - why not offer an online meeting place?
>We can offer clubs a number of benefits so all
>    members can be engaged and involved when it suits them.
>A Collector Club on collectZing.com offers your club its
>    own website address (www.collectzing.com/club/YourClubName). As a club,
you decide who is
>    eligible to join, or you can make it open to the public. Members can
>    discuss topics in the Club forum, plus on request we can set up your very
>    own club email discussion list (YourClubName@collectzing.com), giving all
your members an
>    easy way to communicate with each other all day every day.
>If you=E2=99d like further
>    information about signing your club up for its very own online Collector
>    Club please email us at .
>If your club isn't ready to sign up to www.collectzing.com yet, please
make sure you let your members know about
>    this fabulous, free service, so they too can share their passion and
>    knowledge with other collectors around the world.
>Kind regards
>David Eedle
>T: +61 3 9863 9030
>    E: david@collectZing.com
>    W: www.collectZing.com
>This email, and any attachment,
>  is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete itfrom
>  your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify
>  the sender immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those
>  the individual sender and may not be the views of the collectZing.com, unless
>  specifically stated. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment
>  (s) are free from computer viruses or other defects.
>More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail!

=================

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:52:17 -0600
From: Yaz 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Fwd: Website for collectors

I have tagged it as spam, so if it turns into anything but, someone
might want to let us know because I shouldn't get it anymore.

Greg (yaz)

obcjohn@knology.net wrote:
> Yep, I got it. Sounds like somebody looked at us and at Net54.
> Bama
> On Wed Jan 9 19:45 , Jeff Delott sent:
> >
> > Anybody get this email?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey Delott
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >
> >From: Libby O'Sullivan  >
> >
> >To: info@collectzing.com 
> >
> >Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 6:23 pm
> >
> >Subject: Website for collectors
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > FREE WEBSITE FOR COLLECTORS LAUNCHES
> >
> >
> >collectZing.com is a new, free, website just for
> > collectors.  Join as an individual or as a club.
> >
> >
> >Members can upload images of their collectibles and
> > showcase their collections using the collectZing customized
> cataloging templates.
> > Any collection can be marked as private, just for friends, or for public
> > exhibition.
> >
> >
> >collectZing also offers the Marketplace, where members
> > can buy, sell and swap their collectibles, with flexible options and no
> > listing fees or commissions during the beta period.
> >
> >
> >YOUR VERY OWN ONLINE CLUBROOM!
> >
> >
> >Ever feel days are shorter and shorter and you hardly
> > have time to do what’s necessary, let alone what you really love? If
> > some of your club members are unable to attend your meetings and
> membership
> > is dropping off, or you’re just looking for a better way to keep
> > everyone in touch - why not offer an online meeting place?
> >
> >
> > We can offer clubs a number of benefits so all
> > members can be engaged and involved when it suits them.
> >
> >
> >A Collector Club on collectZing.com offers your club its
> > own website address (www.collectzing.com/club/YourClubName). As a
> club, you decide who is
> > eligible to join, or you can make it open to the public. Members can
> > discuss topics in the Club forum, plus on request we can set up your
> very
> > own club email discussion list (YourClubName@collectzing.com
> ), giving all your members an
> > easy way to communicate with each other all day every day.
> >
> >
> >If you’d like further
> > information about signing your club up for its very own online Collector
> > Club please email us at  >.
> >
> >
> > If your club isn't ready to sign up to www.collectzing.com yet,
> please make sure you let your members know about
> > this fabulous, free service, so they too can share their passion and
> > knowledge with other collectors around the world.
> >
> >
> >Kind regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >David Eedle
> >
> >
> >Co-Founder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >T:   +61 3 9863 9030
> >
> >
> > E:   david@collectZing.com 
> >
> >
> > W: www.collectZing.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >This email, and any attachment,
> > is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> delete it from
> > your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and
> notify
> > the sender immediately.  Any views expressed in this message are
> those of
> > the individual sender and may not be the views of the
> collectZing.com, unless
> > specifically stated.  No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment
> > (s) are free from computer viruses or other defects.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> >

=================

To: "vct" ,
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:44:20 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] promotion a-do

CHECK IT OUT !!!    We're all gonna need to send a classic (Well dressed version,
of course!) 8 x 10 of ourselves holding up a card, so he can line the
shelves of his new office suite with "important dignitary" type photo's. ...at
least until he can obtain a few showcase Mantle, Mays and Maris type
jersey's and signed baseballs.

Congratulations Anthony, and GOOD LUCK !!!

----- Original Message -----
From: ant
To: vct ; obc rambling ; dugout thanks ; trading bases
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] promotion a-do

Hello All,
For those who do not know have been,for a long time, the Regional ExecutiveChef
for the Grand Hyatt Hotel overseeing 21 other Hotels. It has been in the
works for over 1 year and finally came to pass. I have officially givenup
the Chef's Hat & all the "fame" to move up to a Food & Beverage Director
in the same Hotel. Tuff decision to change, but my goals will be set on becoming
a General Manager of a Hotel in the future versus a Corporate Chef.
I will still keep my tag name as chefant but the journey into a Suit is going
to be a challenge.
Thanks for your time on this non-sport card issue

Anthony Arbeeny

=================

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:46:10 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "mikesportsfan" 
Subject: FOOT area happenings

A quick reminder about the College Hockey at the Palace on Saurday,
January 19 for $10 for the doubleheader.  This of course is followed by
the Redford show on Sunday, January 20.  Please let me know f you plan
on going to either or both.
I went to the weekly Wednesday show for the first time ina  while
yesterday and picked up a small stack from Mark's fav dealer Harold.
Among the pick-ups was the 1962 Post Blue Line versions of Clemente and
Koufax and a 1940 Playball Mel Ott.  I also got an upgrade on the 1963
Fleer Drysdale, a 1961 Topps AS of Frank Robby and some Nu Card
Scoops.  Harold will be setting up this weekend at Gibraltar North and
has a bunch of BB & FB from the 50s and 60s.  This includes 1965 Topps
FB tallboys and even some 1969-70 & 1970-71 Topps Basketball.  I do not
know if this stash will last until the Redford show and you may want to
check them out.  He also has a stack of 1953 Topps high numbers.
Mike Rich
cell:  (248) 709-2235

=================

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 03:27:56 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "jimbo777777" 
Subject: Spring Training

I'll be heading south on Feb 27 for Spring Training, staying at a beach
front place in Cocoa Beach.  I'll definitely hit Viera (Nationals),
Vero Beach (LA) and Port St Lucie (Mets), hope to make a side trip to
see the Braves and Astros, maybe even the Tigers.  Will be there until
march 14.

Anybody else going down?

=================

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 9:10:28 -0500
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: 
Subject: Spring Training

Will be in Lakeland for Spring Training from Mar 1 -15. Usually have extra tickets. Cell phone is 757.567.0752.

George (TigersGAM) Moore

=================

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:47:17 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: directorth@aol.com
Subject: Months-old Helmar news
Content-Language: en

As I was cleaning out my very full AOL inbox, I ran across an e-mail exchange
I had with Helmar bigwig Charles Mandel, which occurred just after the
National. If you are/were collecting the carriers, you might find the following
information helpful:

According to the info on the Helmar website, the carriers were listed as:

1) Christy Mathewson 2) Jimmy Foxx 3) Lefty Grove 4) not issued 5) Mordecai
Brown and 6) Honus Wagner.
I had ony three - and they were numbered as: 1) Mathewson 2) Lefty Grove and
6) Wagner.
So, I asked Mr. Mandel about it. Here's his reply:
"Regarding the carriers, I apologize that our web site is so out of date. The
pages listing the carriers was written quite a long time ago and there were
errors. Our new site is now being constructed and will correct many of the
mistakes. We=E2=99re also adding quite a bit of information and I think that
it will be
quite nice once it is updated.

So=E2=A6 you are correct that Grove was #2. More importantly, the three carriers
that you have are the only ones that exist. The others were sent to the printer
but he mistakenly reprinted the first three. They were perfectly good
carriers so I didn=E2=99t feel right about refusing the job. For your information,
he also
double printed the Wagner. That one, then, is more common than the others."
So, there you have it - straight from the source. Mr. Mandel also mentioned
how thrilled he was to meet all of the OBC'ers who stopped by his table.
Tom Housley

From: DirectorTH@aol.com [mailto:DirectorTH@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 8:03 PM
To: cmandel@helmarbrewing.com
Subject: National thanks, and a question

Hello Mr. Mandel,

I wanted to personally thank you for helping me finish my bottle cap & bottle
collection at The National in Cleveland; I stopped by the Helmar table
Thursday afternoon & you were most kind in locating the cap & the two bottles
needed. I wanted to let you know I did come by again on Friday mrning & purchased
a complete 2nd series from the gentleman who was manning your table; they are
beautiful cards & I can't wait until the 3rd series comes out.

You & I also had a discussion about the beer carriers, & which ones might or
might not exist. I wanted to be able to clarify the information, & find outif
I do have a complete set as it exists. From the Helmar Brewing website, the
carriers are listed as:

1) Christy Mathewson

2) Jimmy Foxx

3) Lefty Grove

4) not issued

5) Mordecai Brown

6) Honus Wagner

I have:

1) Mathewson

2) Lefty Grove (note - this is different from what the website lists)

6) Wagner

Can you confirm that  5) Brown and 3) Foxx (or so I assume, since 2 is listed
as Foxx on the website & I have #2 but Grove is pictured) - do not exist? Or,
if one or both do exist, might you happen to have them available for purchase?

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:04:30 -0500
To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" 
From: "Steve Rittenberg" 
Subject: Helmar news, questions, and availables

I'm at the site to find a checklist for Series I.  There are new
products coming out -- 35 Goudey 4-in-1s.  They look cool.
http://www.helmarbrewing.com/     Hmm...  No checklist.   Wait -
here's one at a different site.  http://helmarcards.com/page3.html
Now I'm offficially done with this set.   How do you display them?
They are too think for 15 pocket pages.  They fly around 9 pocket
pages.   I'm open to suggestions.

Also, I have a box of dupes available to anyone.   Take them all or
just the ones you want.

=================

To: 
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:45:59 -0500
From: Mac Wubben 
Subject: Remaining t205 dupes

Well, the t205 set is down to two...one common (Lush) and Wilhelm.  Obviously
if you have either of them, I'm interested in trading.  Here are my remaining
t205 dupes if anyone wants to propose a trade.

Ford (white cap)
Dougherty (red sock and white sock version)
Graham (cubs)
Gray (no stats)
Hoblitzell (no Cin, name correct)
Leifield (A.)
Wallace (no cap)
Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real people making a real difference.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?sourcetext_watchcause
=================

To: srittenberg@gmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:26:28 -0500
From: mma3026559@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Helmar news, questions, and availables

The Helmars are one of the few "New" cards that I actually enjoy. The
Snack cards have two series, so far. The Silks have three series, so
far. The Goudey 4/1 and the Integrity series exclusively feature one of
a kind, hand-painted cards. Both of these series will be added to in
the future. A checklist for the Integrity Series is available through
the artist, Monty Sheldon. He can be reached at
(monty@montysheldon.com). Monty & I have worked together for ten years
with the Hand painted "Artballs", with over 400 projects completed. In
terms of storing the snack cards, they do not fit in the 15 or 18
pocket sheets (designed for T/E cards) as the paper is too thick. You
have to use a sheet designed for '75 Topps Minis or 51 Bowmans...

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Rittenberg 
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:04 pm
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Helmar news, questions, and availables

I'm at the site to find a checklist for Series I.  There
are new

products coming out -- 35 Goudey 4-in-1s.  They look cool.

http://www.helmarbrewing.com/     Hmm...  No checklist.   Wait -

here's one at a different site.  http://helmarcards.com/page3.html

Now I'm offficially done with this set.   How do you display them?

They are too think for 15 pocket pages.  They fly around 9 pocket

pages.   I'm open to suggestions.

Also, I have a box of dupes available to anyone.   Take them all or

just the ones you want.

More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

=================

To: "Tom Massimo" ,
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:27:23 -0500
From: "Chuck Paris" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Who collects 1962 Topps stamps?

----- Original Message -----
From: LYONS RONI
To: Tom Massimo ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Ultimately there is only one thing that matters and that is that the system
continues and thrives. We all know that the world is always changing andthis
group will be no different you have to to survive. If you get stuck in
tunnel vision you get left behind . I am one of the new guys but there will
be a day that I will be the most senior guy and I don't even have a pre-war
set I'm working on what do you think the new member in 20 years from now
will be collecting. I think anything that get the ball rolling again is agood
idea but like most ideas they are not perfect at the start this will probably
evolve into something that is workable for everyone. If this anyway
offends anyone I'll say I'm sorry now thanks Rick

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: tdmassimo@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 20:38:43 +0000
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Although 1974 was the first year that I collected cards (as a little 5
year old), I agree with Brock. There is something different about
cards issued in a serious of sets which makes collecting them more

That being said, I also think there is a big difference between cards
issued from 1974 to 1980 from cards issued post 1980. The 1981
introductions of Fleer and Donruss in addition to big Topps traded sets
made collecting more difficult. Collecting was further complicated by
the insert (making an All-Star team gave a player at least 4 cards just
from Topps in the 80's), Chrome, Tiffany, retro sets, and more card
companies entering the fray.

Although it raised Anti-Trust issues, I preferred it when Topps was the
king with a few regional and food issues issuing sets.

=================

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:22:31 EST
To: srittenberg@gmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: larrygers@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Helmar news, questions, and availables

I warmed the 15 pocket pages by heating the oven & holding them
in front of the open door to make them more pliable & slipped the
thick Helmars cards into the pockets. It worked pretty good.

My problem is that I don't have enough 15 pocket pages.
Anyone have a few extra they could spare?

In a message dated 1/12/2008 3:05:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
srittenberg@gmail.com writes:

I'm at the site to find a checklist for Series I. There are new
products  coming out -- 35 Goudey 4-in-1s. They look cool.
_http://www.helmarbrhttp://www_ (http://www.helmarbrewing.com/)   Hmm... No
checklist. Wait -
here's one at a different site. _http://helmarcards.http://helhttp_
(http://helmarcards.com/page3.html)
Now  I'm offficially done with this set. How do you display them?
They are too  think for 15 pocket pages. They fly around 9 pocket
pages. I'm open to  suggestions.

Also, I have a box of dupes available to anyone. Take them  all or
just the ones you want.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: "obc" 
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:59:33 -0600
From: "ken goetsch" 
Subject: 68 Football stand ups avail..............

I have the following 1968 Topps Football stand-ups avail.......fcfs.....no payback
These are all "punched"......................
I have 2 of each.....................
Blanks, Ryan, Richardson.

Please enclose your address for speedier shipment.
Ken Goetsch

=================

To: 
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:51:53 -0500
From: "Chuck Paris" 
Subject: What happenned to eBay's "Compare" feature

You used to be able to check a box to the side of certain items that came up
in a search and get a window to compare them in.  I didn't find the comparison
capability that worthwhile but it was an easy way to click a button and
add all of those items to your watch list.

Anyway, I don't see that Compare feature anymore.  Any clues?

=================

To: 
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:46:27 -0800
From: "KIT OKAMURO" 
Subject: does anybody live near hazel park michigan?

please lmk, kit okamuro
=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:41:59 -0500
From: "Jim Beauchemin" 
Subject: Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I got one of these tonight, from a seller named "koolgoods".  It's a piddlylittle
six dollar transaction, yet I got the infamous:

"Once your item arrives in satisfactory condition, please leave feedback for
me. I will do the same for you."

I'll be going ahead with the report to ebay. Am I the first one on our new crusade?

----- Original Message -----
From: mikesportsfan@aol.com
To: wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; DaPatriot1@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise

I agree completely with you on this.  I have had this discussion with
a Selelr more than once.  Any Seller that says they will leave feedbackfor
me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported.  It is blackmail.
Mike Rich
In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, wguthrie@axint.net

That does it.  I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong with
the eVil bay.  NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the
buyer has paid.  After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation
has ended.  The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flawof
eBay, and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this.

Are you with me?

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: Jim Beauchemin , ,
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 06:00:50 +0000
From: LYONS RONI 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I don't know any seller that doesn't say that. I have gone around with manysellers
about that and who is responsible to
get the item to me ,my job stops when you say you got my money.I stopped for
2 years leaving feedback because feedback
helps the seller not the buyer. if you are only going to buy and not sell what
do I care if my feedback is 100,500 or 5000.

To: wguthrie@axint.net; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com; DaPatriot1@aol.com; mikesportsfan@aol.comFrom:
jimbo7777777@earthlink.netDate: Mon, 14 Jan 200800:41:59
-0500Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I got one of these tonight, from a seller named "koolgoods".  It's a piddlylittle
six dollar transaction, yet I got the infamous:

"Once your item arrives in satisfactory condition, please leave feedback forme.
I will do the same for you."

I'll be going ahead with the report to ebay. Am I the first one on our new crusade?

----- Original Message -----
From: mikesportsfan@aol.com
To: wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; DaPatriot1@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise

Walker,       I agree completely with you on this.  I have had this discussion
with a Selelr more than once.  Any Seller that says they will leave feedback
for me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported.  It is blackmail.Mike
RichIn a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,wguthrie@axint.net
That does it.  I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong with the
eVil bay.  NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the buyer
has paid.  After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation has
ended.  The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flaw of eBay,
and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this.Are you with me?**************Start
the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: "LYONS RONI" ,
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:02:53 -0500
From: "Jim Beauchemin" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I have to disagree on at least one point.  I've dealt with many sellers, even
the majority I'd say, that do leave feedback after payment is made.   Tome,
it is the right thing to do, and is as much a matter of principle as anything

----- Original Message -----
From: LYONS RONI
To: Jim Beauchemin ; wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ;dapatriot1@aol.com
; mikesportsfan@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I don't know any seller that doesn't say that. I have gone around with many
sellers about that and who is responsible to
get the item to me ,my job stops when you say you got my money.I stopped for
2 years leaving feedback because feedback
helps the seller not the buyer. if you are only going to buy and not sellwhat
do I care if my feedback is 100,500 or 5000.

To: wguthrie@axint.net; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com; DaPatriot1@aol.com;
From: jimbo7777777@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:41:59 -0500
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I got one of these tonight, from a seller named "koolgoods".  It's a piddly
little six dollar transaction, yet I got the infamous:

"Once your item arrives in satisfactory condition, please leave feedback
me. I will do the same for you."

I'll be going ahead with the report to ebay. Am I the first one on our new

----- Original Message -----
From: mikesportsfan@aol.com
To: wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; DaPatriot1@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise

I agree completely with you on this.  I have had this discussion
with a Selelr more than once.  Any Seller that says they will leave feedback
for me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported.  It is blackmail.
Mike Rich
In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, wguthrie@axint.net

That does it.  I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong
with the eVil bay.  NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after
the buyer has paid.  After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation
has ended.  The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flaw
of eBay, and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this.

Are you with me?

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: "Jim Beauchemin" ,
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:02:37 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I'm all over this, Jimbo; as you might have picked up on from my previous Rambling,
this is my biggest peeve about eVil Bay.  I too, fully believe that
as a purchaser, MY obligation "mostly" ends once I've made payment. Oh sure,
I should check the product when it arrives and make sure the goods wereas
the seller described, and if condition, communication, shipping time and
costs are in order, my "obligation" should continue to provide feedback describing
such.  However, if a seller "withholds" feedback from any point on,
after payment has been made, then, to me, it is for one reason and one reason
only.  To withhold for retaliatory purposes simply in response to my feedback.
 That, in MY belief, should be considered illegal, or fraud.

I have long tried to avoid these sellers, and I have recently found myself sending
them "question to the seller," asking them to explain their policy.I've
yet to find one response that prompted me to bid on their product.

This s** needs to stop, or at least have some way to be flagged, and I'm amcontinuing
to search the nasty eVil Bay site to find the appropriate "location"
to complain about this.  If anyone knows the proper "thread" to complain
about this, I'll jump all over ANY and ALL of your prospective sellers who
proclaim this wonderful crap about posting feedback "AFTER" you do.

ENOUGH SUX; Let's FIX !!!!

Once enough of us do so, I still have faith in eBay that this crap can be reduced.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Beauchemin
To: LYONS RONI ; wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; dapatriot1@aol.com
; mikesportsfan@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I have to disagree on at least one point.  I've dealt with many sellers, even
the majority I'd say, that do leave feedback after payment is made.   Tome,
it is the right thing to do, and is as much a matter of principle as anything

----- Original Message -----
From: LYONS RONI
To: Jim Beauchemin ; wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ;dapatriot1@aol.com
; mikesportsfan@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I don't know any seller that doesn't say that. I have gone around with many
sellers about that and who is responsible to
get the item to me ,my job stops when you say you got my money.I stopped for
2 years leaving feedback because feedback
helps the seller not the buyer. if you are only going to buy and not sellwhat
do I care if my feedback is 100,500 or 5000.

To: wguthrie@axint.net; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com; DaPatriot1@aol.com;
From: jimbo7777777@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:41:59 -0500
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I got one of these tonight, from a seller named "koolgoods".  It's a piddly
little six dollar transaction, yet I got the infamous:

"Once your item arrives in satisfactory condition, please leave feedback
me. I will do the same for you."

I'll be going ahead with the report to ebay. Am I the first one on our new

----- Original Message -----
From: mikesportsfan@aol.com
To: wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; DaPatriot1@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise

I agree completely with you on this.  I have had this discussion
with a Selelr more than once.  Any Seller that says they will leave feedback
for me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported.  It is blackmail.
Mike Rich
In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, wguthrie@axint.net

That does it.  I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong
with the eVil bay.  NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after
the buyer has paid.  After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation
has ended.  The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flaw
of eBay, and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this.

Are you with me?

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:21:12 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: eBay Feedback

Okay, please, if anyone else can help me here, please do so.  This is the best
I've found so far:

Contact Us
  Feedback     -     Continue
Select Topic   - - -   Feedback Concerns
Member Threatened to Leave Negative Feedback if demands weren't met
- - -  here is where I get lost
- - -   I think "feedback extortion" is the best file

dunno what to do from here   - - -    any help?

----- Original Message -----
From: mikesportsfan@aol.com
To: wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; DaPatriot1@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise

I agree completely with you on this.  I have had this discussion with
a Selelr more than once.  Any Seller that says they will leave feedback for
me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported.  It is blackmail.
Mike Rich
In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, wguthrie@axint.net

That does it.  I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong withthe
eVil bay.  NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the buyer
has paid.  After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligationhas
ended.  The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flaw of
eBay, and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this.

Are you with me?

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:24:28 EST
To: wguthrie@axint.net, jimbo7777777@earthlink.net, rrrlyons@msn.com,
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I agree I cant stand sellers who pull this crap. I  help up my end of the
deal. I paid I want the feedback that I am due. I had an  incident 2 weeks
ago, I purchased a lot of 50s and 60s cards I paid 2 minutes  after the auction
was over... Did not receive my feedback I was to say the least  annoyed. I was
not going to leave feedback. When the package arrived  I  opened the package
and saw the note" Please leave positive feedback and I will  do the same."
Now this pissed me off and I was about to leave  nothing. then I went to
look at the cards and saw another note " Hey I had these  extras laying around
I am throwing them in for you ant no cost." Now he threw me  4 mint 61 posts,
and a bunch of 75 and 76 odd ball hofers... Now was he sending  me a bribe?
Id say so...since his kind gesture I did leave positive feedback,  But it took
a so to say bribe to get it out of me.
Walker  these dealers that refuse to leave +  feedback must be hiding
something, and you unfortunately need to leave yourself  either a mental note or
actual note not to buy from  again.

Rob "The FIREMAN"

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: "'OBC Ramblings'" 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:31:09 -0500
From: "Bob Donaldson" 
Subject: Bogus Ebay Second Chance offers

Has anyone else gotten emails with bogus second chance offers after bidding
on an item on Ebay?

=================

To: 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:34:23 -0500
From: Bob Reed 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

How about if we, as a group, start leaving positive feedback for these people
that says something like

"Package was fine but seller wouldn't leave feedback until
I did".

That may help others who want to avoid buying from these sellers.

To: wguthrie@axint.net; jimbo7777777@earthlink.net; rrrlyons@msn.com; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com;
Mikesportsfan@aol.com; vct-vintagecardtraders.com@lists.vintagecardtraders.comFrom:
DaPatriot1@aol.comDate: Mon, 14 Jan 200807:24:28
-0500Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I agree I cant stand sellers who pull this crap. I help up my end of the
deal. I paid I want the feedback that I am due. I had an incident 2 weeksago,
I purchased a lot of 50s and 60s cards I paid 2 minutes after the auction
was over... Did not receive my feedback I was to say the least annoyed.
I was not going to leave feedback. When the package arrived  I opened thepackage
and saw the note" Please leave positive feedback and I will do thesame."
Now this pissed me off and I was about to leave nothing. then I went tolook
at the cards and saw another note " Hey I had these extras laying around
I am throwing them in for you ant no cost." Now he threw me 4 mint 61 posts,
and a bunch of 75 and 76 odd ball hofers... Now was he sending me a bribe?
Id say so...since his kind gesture I did leave positive feedback, Butit
took a so to say bribe to get it out of me.
Walker  these dealers that refuse to leave + feedback must be hiding something,
and you unfortunately need to leave yourself either a mental note or
actual note not to buy from again.

Rob "The FIREMAN" Gioia

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocidTXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008
=================

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:25:33 EST
To: jimbo7777777@earthlink.net, wguthrie@axint.net,
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

ur wasting your time.  people get scammed for $$$ on ebay all the time  and
they dont do anything.  do you think they care about feedback?

In a message dated 1/13/2008 11:42:19 PM Central Standard Time,
jimbo7777777@earthlink.net writes:

I got one of these tonight, from a seller named  "koolgoods".  It's a piddly
little six dollar transaction, yet I got the  infamous:

"Once your item arrives in satisfactory  condition, please leave feedback for
me. I will do the same for  you."

I'll be going ahead with the report to ebay. Am I the  first one on our new

----- Original Message -----
From: _mikesportsfan@mikespo_ (mailto:mikesportsfan@aol.com)
To: _wguthrie@axint.wgu_ (mailto:wguthrie@axint.net)  ;
_obc-ramblings@obc-ramblingobc_ (mailto:obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com)   ; _DaPatriot1@aol.DaP_
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 3:26  PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay  problem??? and advise

I agree  completely with you on this.  I have had this discussion with a
Selelr  more than once.  Any Seller that says they will leave feedback for me
only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported.  It is  blackmail.
Mike Rich
In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern  Standard Time,
_wguthrie@axint.wgu_ (mailto:wguthrie@axint.net)   writes:

That does  it.  I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong with
the  eVil bay.  NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the
buyer has paid.  After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's  obligation has
ended.  The ability of a seller to withhold feedback  is a major flaw of eBay,
and I'm going to embark on a mission to change  this.

Are you with me?

Start the year  off right. Easy ways to stay in  shape.
http://body.http://body.
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:40:03 -0600
From: "Tim Newcomb" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I hate to rain on your parade, guys, but as someone who has sold plenty of stuff
on ebay, I can definitely see why a seller would hesitate to leave feedback
as soon as payment is made.  The truth is there are unscrupulous buyers
(not among OBC, obviously, but in the wider world) who will pay, claim they
never received the goods, and then demand their money back.  This has happened
to me more than once.  Or they can get their money back from paypal.
If you didn't send with signature confirmation you're pretty much out of
luck as a seller--paypal will do a chargeback in this situation.  Paypal makes
this very easy for buyers to run this scam, and if you polled the OBC-friendly
dealers you know, I bet almost all of them would say this had happened
to them.  The seller is out the cards and the $$.

So-- the buyer's obligation does not stop with payment: it stops when he acknowledges
receipt of the goods.  At that point, I agree, the seller shouldleave
feedback whether the buyer does or not.  One way of acknowledging buyer's
receipt is to leave feedback, and that may be one reason for the notes
"please leave feedback and I will do the same."  If you don't like this, you
can acknowledge receipt to the seller via email, and ask that he leave feedback,
and leave it yourself only when he does.  That's equally reasonable
as his asking you for it.  But the bottom line is that someone has to leave
it first, or no one ever will.  It makes sense to me that the buyer would
leave it first, signaling a successful, complete transaction.  I leave it
first all the time as a buyer, to indicate I am satisfied.  Sellers usually
reciprocate eventually.

Just remember there are bad apples on both sides.  I can't see getting worked
up about this-- ebay is all about selling, it's not a consumer protection
entity.  And it has much bigger problems to deal with-- out and out scams,

=================

To: Tim Newcomb , 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:54:00 -0500
From: Mac Wubben 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

Thanks Tim...it saved me from having to write the same thing.  (now a shorter
version of the same thing) A buyer's obligation includes working with the
seller to resolve any potential problems.  If the buyer gets the cards, then
leaves positive feeback, the seller knows that the transaction is completed
to the satisfaction of both parties.  My biggest criticism of the whole
system is buyers who are so afraid of "ruining" their perfect rating thatthey
are afraid to leave negative feedback for negative experiences.  There
is not a seller around who is going to reject a buyer because of a 99% positive
rate as opposed to a 100% positive rate, so why is everyone so afraid
to let their feedback reflect the truth???

To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.comFrom: apspr@msn.comDate: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:40:03
-0600Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I hate to rain on your parade, guys, but as someone who has sold plenty of stuff
on ebay, I can definitely see why a seller would hesitate to leave feedback
as soon as payment is made.  The truth is there are unscrupulous buyers
(not among OBC, obviously, but in the wider world) who will pay, claim they
never received the goods, and then demand their money back.  This has happened
to me more than once.  Or they can get their money back from paypal.
If you didn't send with signature confirmation you're pretty much out of
luck as a seller--paypal will do a chargeback in this situation.  Paypal makes
this very easy for buyers to run this scam, and if you polled the OBC-friendly
dealers you know, I bet almost all of them would say this had happened
to them.  The seller is out the cards and the $$.

So-- the buyer's obligation does not stop with payment: it stops when he acknowledges
receipt of the goods.  At that point, I agree, the seller shouldleave
feedback whether the buyer does or not.  One way of acknowledging buyer's
receipt is to leave feedback, and that may be one reason for the notes
"please leave feedback and I will do the same."  If you don't like this, you
can acknowledge receipt to the seller via email, and ask that he leave feedback,
and leave it yourself only when he does.  That's equally reasonable
as his asking you for it.  But the bottom line is that someone has to leave
it first, or no one ever will.  It makes sense to me that the buyer would
leave it first, signaling a successful, complete transaction.  I leave it
first all the time as a buyer, to indicate I am satisfied.  Sellers usually
reciprocate eventually.

Just remember there are bad apples on both sides.  I can't see getting worked
up about this-- ebay is all about selling, it's not a consumer protection
entity.  And it has much bigger problems to deal with-- out and out scams,

Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocidTXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008
=================

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:43:04 EST
To: obcmac@hotmail.com, apspr@msn.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: JEdward@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

When I first started buying on eBay I would always leave positive feedback
for satisfactory transactions.  However, I noticed that sometimes the  sellers
still did not return a positive feedback for me.  I therefore came  to the
conclusion that some sellers either do not care if I was satisfied or  not, or
they were not interested in the "feedback concept".  Since it  didn't make much
difference to me if they left feedback or not I decided that  once I promptly
paid for an item and there was no feedback response from them  that I would
simply assume that they weren't interested and therefore there was  no need for
me to bother with it either.

Of course, as Rob mentioned, sometimes a seller goes over and above what's
expected, in which case I am willing to make an exception.  But that is  very,
very rare.

Perhaps a buyer could leave a message in the little message box when making
a payment to the effect that if feedback is not received then it will be
assumed  that the seller is not interested in giving or receiving feedback.

John McLaughlin

In a message dated 1/14/2008 10:54:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
obcmac@hotmail.com writes:

Thanks Tim...it saved me from having to write the same thing.   (now a
shorter version of the same thing) A buyer's obligation includes  working with the
seller to resolve any potential problems.  If  the buyer gets the cards, then
leaves positive feeback,  the seller knows that the transaction is completed to
the satisfaction of  both parties.  My biggest criticism of the whole system
is  buyers who are so afraid of "ruining" their perfect rating that they  are
afraid to leave negative feedback for negative experiences.  There is  not a
seller around who is going to reject a buyer because of a 99% positive  rate as
opposed to a 100% positive rate, so why is everyone so afraid to let  their
feedback reflect the  truth???

To: obc-ramblings@ To: ob
From: apspr@msn.com
Date:  Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:40:03 -0600
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay  Feedback Blackmail

I hate to rain on your parade, guys, but as  someone who has sold plenty of
stuff on ebay, I can definitely see why a  seller would hesitate to leave
feedback as soon as payment is made.   The truth is there are unscrupulous buyers
(not among OBC, obviously, but in  the wider world) who will pay, claim they
never received the goods, and then  demand their money back.  This has happened
to me more than  once.  Or they can get their money back from paypal.  If you
didn't send with signature confirmation you're pretty much out of luck  as a
seller--paypal will do a chargeback in this  situation.  Paypal makes this
very easy for buyers to run  this scam, and if you polled the OBC-friendly
dealers you know, I  bet almost all of them would say this had happened to them.
The seller is out the cards and the $$.

So-- the buyer's obligation does not  stop with payment: it stops when he
acknowledges receipt of the goods.   At that point, I agree, the seller should
leave feedback whether the  buyer does or not.  One way of acknowledging buyer's
receipt is to  leave feedback, and that may be one reason for the notes
"please leave  feedback and I will do the same."  If you don't like this, you can
acknowledge receipt to the seller via email, and ask that he leave  feedback,
and leave it yourself only when he does.  That's equally  reasonable as his
asking you for it.  But the bottom line is that someone has to leave it first,
or no one  ever will.  It makes sense to me that the buyer would leave it
first,  signaling a successful, complete transaction.  I leave it first all the
time as a buyer, to indicate I am satisfied.   Sellers usually reciprocate

Just remember there are bad apples on both  sides.  I can't see getting
worked up about this-- ebay is all about  selling, it's not a consumer protection
entity.  And it  has much bigger problems to deal with-- out and out scams,

Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. _Get it now!_
(http://www.windowslive.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:49:30 EST
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

i generally leave feedback as soon as an item is received.  i would  say i
get feedback as son as i pay about 60% of the time.

on my ebay summary page, it lists all the items i have won over some
specified time period, and it is pretty easy to see if a seller has left me
feedback.  if they haven't within a week after i have received the item, i  will drop
them a short email.  i'd say that clears it up about 80% of the  time, which
is fine with me.

a second email on occasion knocks half of the remaining 20% out.  for  the
final 10%, i just amend my feedback indicating that the seller will not  leave
feedback.  i have never recieved a negative becuase of that, and i  assume
these sellers dont care.  it is usually a high volume guy (like over  10,000

if i didnt think i would be selling at some time in the future, i wouldnt
care at all.

In a message dated 1/14/2008 12:43:47 PM Central Standard Time,
JEdward@aol.com writes:

When I first started buying on eBay I would always leave positive  feedback
for satisfactory transactions.  However, I noticed that  sometimes the sellers
still did not return a positive feedback for me.  I  therefore came to the
conclusion that some sellers either do not care if I was  satisfied or not, or
they were not interested in the "feedback concept".   Since it didn't make much
difference to me if they left feedback or not I  decided that once I promptly
paid for an item and there was no feedback  response from them that I would
simply assume that they weren't interested and  therefore there was no need for
me to bother with it either.

Of course, as Rob mentioned, sometimes a seller goes over and above  what's
expected, in which case I am willing to make an exception.  But  that is very,
very rare.

Perhaps a buyer could leave a message in the little message box when  making
a payment to the effect that if feedback is not received then it will  be
assumed that the seller is not interested in giving or receiving  feedback.

John McLaughlin

In a message dated 1/14/2008 10:54:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
obcmac@hotmail.In a messag

Thanks Tim...it saved me from having to write the same thing.   (now a
shorter version of the same thing) A buyer's obligation includes  working with the
seller to resolve any potential problems.  If  the buyer gets the cards, then
leaves positive feeback,  the seller knows that the transaction is completed to
the satisfaction  of both parties.  My biggest criticism of the whole system
is  buyers who are so afraid of "ruining" their perfect rating that  they are
afraid to leave negative feedback for negative experiences.   There is not a
seller around who is going to reject a buyer because of a 99%  positive rate as
opposed to a 100% positive rate, so why is everyone so  afraid to let their
feedback reflect the  truth???

To: obc-ramblings@ To:
From:  apspr@msn.com
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:40:03 -0600
Subject: Re:  [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I hate to rain on your parade, guys, but as  someone who has sold plenty of
stuff on ebay, I can definitely see why a  seller would hesitate to leave
feedback as soon as payment is made.   The truth is there are unscrupulous buyers
(not among OBC, obviously, but  in the wider world) who will pay, claim they
never received the goods, and  then demand their money back.  This has happened
to me more than  once.  Or they can get their money back from paypal.  If you
didn't send with signature confirmation you're pretty much out of  luck as a
seller--paypal will do a chargeback in this  situation.  Paypal makes this
very easy for buyers to run  this scam, and if you polled the OBC-friendly
dealers you know, I  bet almost all of them would say this had happened to  them.
The seller is out the cards and the $$.

So-- the buyer's obligation does  not stop with payment: it stops when he
acknowledges receipt of the  goods.  At that point, I agree, the seller should
leave feedback  whether the buyer does or not.  One way of acknowledging buyer's
receipt is to leave feedback, and that may be one reason for the notes
"please leave feedback and I will do the same."  If you don't like  this, you can
acknowledge receipt to the seller via email, and ask  that he leave feedback,
and leave it yourself only when he  does.  That's equally reasonable as his
asking you for  it.  But the bottom line is that  someone has to leave it first,
or no one ever will.  It makes sense  to me that the buyer would leave it
first, signaling a successful,  complete transaction.  I leave it first all the
time as a  buyer, to indicate I am satisfied.  Sellers usually  reciprocate

Just remember there are bad apples on both  sides.  I can't see getting
worked up about this-- ebay is all about  selling, it's not a consumer protection
entity.   And it has much bigger problems to deal with-- out and out  scams,

Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. _Get it now!_
(http://www.windowslive.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008)

Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489)  in the new year.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: "Gary Beard" , "'Walker'" , , , , 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:46:35 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Vct] eBay Feedback

Interesting Strand,

I am probably not your typical eBayer - or maybe I am.  Ever since receiving a retaliatory negative about a year ago from a seller who deserved the negative I posted for him I do not leave feedback.  I don't have the time for all the drama.  My dealings w/eBay to remove the unjustified negative led me to surmise that they didn't care and would not do anything about it (and they didn't).  Frankly their complacent attitudes lead to my complacency.  In the immortal word of the late great Rhet Butler "Frankly my dear - I don't give a damn."  BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ----------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Gary Beard" 

With EVERY Ebay purchase I make, I leave a note at checkout that says:

Please remember to leave feedback asap for my prompt payment so I can do the same for you once the item arrives.  I no longer leave feedback first unless I am the seller!  Thanks for the lot.

I don’t sell or buy on Ebay enough to care if someone doesn’t leave me feedback.  I AM only concerned with my 100% feedback rating.  But I too got tired of sellers wanting feedback before they would leave feedback, and I just WON’T play that game any more!

My two cents,
Gary Beard

From: Walker [mailto:wguthrie@axint.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:21 PM
To: mikesportsfan@aol.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com; jimbo7777777@earthlink.net; vct-vintagecardtraders.com@lists.vintagecardtraders.com
Subject: [Vct] eBay Feedback

Okay, please, if anyone else can help me here, please do so.  This is the best I've found so far:

Contact Us
  Feedback     -     Continue
Select Topic   - - -   Feedback Concerns
Member Threatened to Leave Negative Feedback if demands weren't met
- - -  here is where I get lost
- - -   I think "feedback extortion" is the best file

dunno what to do from here   - - -    any help?

----- Original Message -----
From: mikesportsfan@aol.com
To: wguthrie@axint.net ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; DaPatriot1@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay problem??? and advise

I agree completely with you on this.  I have had this discussion with a Selelr more than once.  Any Seller that says they will leave feedback for me only AFTER I have left them feedbck, gets reported.  It is blackmail.
Mike Rich
In a message dated 1/1/08 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, wguthrie@axint.net writes:

That does it.  I'm on a personal vendetta to "fix" all that is wrong with the eVil bay.  NO seller should be able to "hold back" feedback after the buyer has paid.  After said transaction is paid for, the buyer's obligation has ended.  The ability of a seller to withhold feedback is a major flaw of eBay, and I'm going to embark on a mission to change this.

Are you with me?

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM
=================

To: "'Tim Newcomb'" ,
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:32:18 -0500
From: "Bill Malson" 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I have to second what Tim says. As a fairly regular Ebay seller (not cards,
mostly toys), I can tell you there are unscrupulous buyers out there - and
if you leave the feedback first, then you'll learn that the package "never
arrived."  I always left feedback immediately on payment (and I still do, if
I know the buyer) - but if the seller leaves feedback first, he will get

From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tim Newcomb
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:40 AM
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I hate to rain on your parade, guys, but as someone who has sold plenty of
stuff on ebay, I can definitely see why a seller would hesitate to leave
feedback as soon as payment is made.  The truth is there are unscrupulous
buyers (not among OBC, obviously, but in the wider world) who will pay,
claim they never received the goods, and then demand their money back.  This
has happened to me more than once.  Or they can get their money back from
paypal.  If you didn't send with signature confirmation you're pretty much
out of luck as a seller--paypal will do a chargeback in this situation.
Paypal makes this very easy for buyers to run this scam, and if you polled
the OBC-friendly dealers you know, I bet almost all of them would say this
had happened to them.  The seller is out the cards and the $$.

So-- the buyer's obligation does not stop with payment: it stops when he
acknowledges receipt of the goods.  At that point, I agree, the seller
should leave feedback whether the buyer does or not.  One way of
acknowledging buyer's receipt is to leave feedback, and that may be one
reason for the notes "please leave feedback and I will do the same."  If you
don't like this, you can acknowledge receipt to the seller via email, and
ask that he leave feedback, and leave it yourself only when he does.  That's
equally reasonable as his asking you for it.  But the bottom line is that
someone has to leave it first, or no one ever will.  It makes sense to me
that the buyer would leave it first, signaling a successful, complete
transaction.  I leave it first all the time as a buyer, to indicate I am
satisfied.  Sellers usually reciprocate eventually.

Just remember there are bad apples on both sides.  I can't see getting
worked up about this-- ebay is all about selling, it's not a consumer
protection entity.  And it has much bigger problems to deal with-- out and
out scams, etc.

=================

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:02:30 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Tom Massimo" 
Subject: re:  EBAY feedback blackmail

The sellers may have a legitimate concern if the buyer doesnt have any
feedback, but for somene like me with almost 300 feedbacks, mostly from
buying cards, and many others in OBC that should not be a concern.
If I win an auction, I expect immediate feedback after I pay.

=================

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:39:00 -0500
To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" 
From: "Steve Rittenberg" 
Subject: Not an HOMer but a cool guy

Whenever I see a headline about an old-timer, I figure its bad news.
I'm happy to hear this time its not.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/01/13/conley_had_twice_as_much_fun/
Conley had twice as much fun
Email|Print| Text size =96 + By Stan Grossfeld
Globe Staff / January 13, 2008
ORLANDO, Fla. - He struck out Teddy Ballgame in the All-Star Game,
broke Billy Martin's jaw in a brawl, and, nursing a hangover, held
Wilt Chamberlain to fewer than 20 points.

more stories like this
She's loyal to father's 'Ideal'
Soon the Celtics' will take a backseat to no one
Stars are Sox supporters
Answer all 20 questions correctly and win a prize!
Forget Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, and Michael Jordan. Gene Conley is
the only athlete to win world championships in basketball and
baseball, and nobody played two major professional sports longer. For
six years, he played both sports continually - that's 12 seasons
without a vacation.

"I didn't stop," he says with a boyish grin. "I had to wear a
jockstrap year-round."

His athletic feats aside, Conley is also known for bolting from the
Red Sox team bus with teammate Pumpsie Green in New York in an aborted
attempt to fly to Israel in 1962. And he knows that's going to be in
his obituary.

"I don't care, probably because I played with some of the best
ballplayers in the history of the game," says Conley. "In baseball I
was with [Warren] Spahn and [Henry] Aaron and [Eddie] Mathews. In
basketball, I'd come over with [Bill] Russell, [Bob] Cousy, and [Tom]
Heinsohn. [Red] Auerbach was the coach."

He's 77 now, and for the New Year he got a pacemaker. He drives a
Lincoln Continental with the front seat extended on rails into the
backseat so he can stretch out his 6-foot-8-inch body. He can't wear
his championship rings because his fingers are bent and arthritic from
hoops and hardball. But he still has some spring in his size 16 shoes,
plenty of heart, and a smile that never seems to fade.

Conley lives in Clermont, Fla., with his wife of 56 years, Kathryn.
Recently she wrote a biography about him titled, "One of A Kind,"
which is how statistician Bill James categorized Conley's career.

Conley played center and forward on three consecutive Celtic world
championship teams (1958-61) and he pitched for the 1957 world
champion Milwaukee Braves. He also was the winning pitcher in the 1955
All-Star Game. And he is the only man to play for three professional
teams in the same city: Boston Braves, Red Sox, and Celtics.

See link for the rest.   I'll look for the biography at the library.

=================

To: 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:58:06 -0500
From: "Jim Beauchemin" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

Interesting perspective.  I'm far from being a high volume seller, but I'vesold
maybe 40 or 50 items over the years.  I always give positive feedbackas
soon as I get the money, and I've never had anybody pull the "never received
item" scam.  I guess I was lucky!

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Malson
To: 'Tim Newcomb' ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I have to second what Tim says. As a fairly regular Ebay seller (not cards,
mostly toys), I can tell you there are unscrupulous buyers out there - and
if you leave the feedback first, then you'll learn that the package "never
arrived."  I always left feedback immediately on payment (and I still do,
if I know the buyer) - but if the seller leaves feedback first, he will get

From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tim Newcomb
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:40 AM
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay Feedback Blackmail

I hate to rain on your parade, guys, but as someone who has sold plenty of
stuff on ebay, I can definitely see why a seller would hesitate to leave feedback
as soon as payment is made.  The truth is there are unscrupulous buyers
(not among OBC, obviously, but in the wider world) who will pay, claim
they never received the goods, and then demand their money back.  This has
happened to me more than once.  Or they can get their money back from paypal.
If you didn't send with signature confirmation you're pretty much outof
luck as a seller--paypal will do a chargeback in this situation.  Paypal
makes this very easy for buyers to run this scam, and if you polled the OBC-friendly
dealers you know, I bet almost all of them would say this had happened
to them.  The seller is out the cards and the $$.

So-- the buyer's obligation does not stop with payment: it stops when he acknowledges
receipt of the goods.  At that point, I agree, the seller should
leave feedback whether the buyer does or not.  One way of acknowledging buyer's
receipt is to leave feedback, and that may be one reason for the notes
"please leave feedback and I will do the same."  If you don't like this,
you can acknowledge receipt to the seller via email, and ask that he leave
feedback, and leave it yourself only when he does.  That's equally reasonable
as his asking you for it.  But the bottom line is that someone has to leave
it first, or no one ever will.  It makes sense to me that the buyer would
leave it first, signaling a successful, complete transaction.  I leaveit
first all the time as a buyer, to indicate I am satisfied.  Sellers usually
reciprocate eventually.

Just remember there are bad apples on both sides.  I can't see getting worked
up about this-- ebay is all about selling, it's not a consumer protection
entity.  And it has much bigger problems to deal with-- out and out scams,

=================

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:09:45 -0500
To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" 
From: "Steve Rittenberg" 
Subject: 10 year OBC anniversary

According to the directory, next month marks 10 years since I joined
OBC.   Since then, I've made 150+ friends and I acquired a couple of
cards too.   Thanks to all.   -- Steve Rittenberg

=================

To: 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:49:16 -0500
From: Mac Wubben 
Subject: Redmen--with tabs

1952 #4AL =96 Cliff Chambers
1952 #19AL =96 Saul Rogovin
1953 #4AL =96 Walt Dropo
1953 #6AL =96 Jackie Jensen
1953 #7AL =96 Eddie Joost
1953 #8NL =96 Sal Maglie
1953 #24NL =96 Gerry Staley
1953 #25NL =96 Bobby Thomson
1954 #7NL =96 Don Mueller
1954 #10AL =96 Billy Pierce
1954 #21NL =96 Johnny Antonelli

Like to trade them for hits on my list, but if you don't have any hits, feel
free to put in a claim.

Watch =93Cause Effect,=94 a show about real people making a real difference.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?sourcetext_watchcause
=================

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:06:04 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "uthminsta1" 
Subject: PROJECT: 1979

Hey everyone.  I wanted to come back with an update on the
year-by-year project.  Specifically, I wanted to share my thoughts on
the pace.  There were several people who talked about going faster or
going slower, and no two people seemed to have exactly the same idea
on the "perfect speed" to proceed.

When I first came up with the idea, I was going to stick with each
year for about a week.  That would have meant "catching up" to the
current year in mid-July on the UV side, at which time the vintage
side would have made it back to 1953.  Then there would be a few more
weeks with just the vintage side working further back.  I thought the
activity would probably be less and less the further back we went,
since less people are able to collect prewars, 19th century cards,
etc.  So I thought the remaining guys could determine their own pace
once it got that far back.  Heck, once we reach 1968, I don't have a
whole lot more to offer - just a handful (literally) of dupes and
bigger and bigger wantlists!

So anyway, I thought 6-8 months was a LOT of time to allow for a
project which, at the time, I had no idea whether people would want to
participate in.  I've since found out that there are many who are on
board, on both the vintage and UV sides, and I am pretty excited about
that.  My idea worked! (in more ways than one!)

As I said, I was originally going to go at about a week at a time.
But I think maybe a LITTLE slower might encourage a few more people to
dig out their dupes and participate.

So at least for the time being, I'm going to move forward (backward)
with the project, bringing each new year into light...

ON THE FIVES.

That means every 5th, 15th, and 25th (or so) we add a new year.  That
gives more than a week for each year to be discussed, but not so much
more that people are waiting to move on.  If you're ahead of the pack,
when you've finished organizing your cards, LOOK at 'em a little.  If
you're behind, do what I do and pull out 3-4 years at a time and
organize them to be ready for the next year.

And that reminds me - there are some who have said it would take a lot
of work to get their stuff organized, and if we were moving on too
quickly, they would just drop out.  But this project wasn't meant to
be the only stuff going on, so everyone is ALWAYS free to proceed at
their own pace.  (Thanks Aaron for stating the obvious)  You could
just post a few years at once if you're behind.  Or take a while and
get organized then post whatever you want.  I'm not by any means
saying your posts shouldn't include any other years.  I hope that all
sounded right.  I'm not trying to take over, I just want to provide
some new structure for those who want to go along with it.

Starting ON THE FIVES will allow each stage to start on a different
day of the week, and allow for different people to be there to kick
off each year.  Some people have more time on the weekends, others
(like me) sometimes have rather busy weekends (overnight youth trips,
church, etc) and the occasional lighter day during the week.

This pace, if we stick to it, will get us to the beginning of Topps by
the beginning of November, so as the project is wrapping up, we can
all watch (bet on) the postseason together, and then start looking for
our OBC Santa stuff.  Yeah, almost a whole year for this project.  I'm
sure there will be times when a certain year will not have a whole lot
of stuff available or something like that, and we can always adjust

One other thing.  If you've read this far, cool.  Thanks.  But I
thought it might be good to give the project an official name.  I'm
going with the subject of this post.  PROJECT 1979.  And next time it
will be called PROJECT 1978, etc.

1979... Let's get started!

=================

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:31:17 EST
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] PROJECT: 1979

aaron:  after all is said and done, where do i find an easy list where  i can
see who said they were collecting a specific year, e/g 1980?

In a message dated 1/15/2008 10:06:59 AM Central Standard Time,
uthminsta@hotmail.com writes:

Hey everyone. I wanted to come back with an update on the
year-by-year  project. Specifically, I wanted to share my thoughts on
the pace. There  were several people who talked about going faster or
going slower, and no  two people seemed to have exactly the same idea
on the "perfect speed" to  proceed.

When I first came up with the idea, I was going to stick with  each
year for about a week. That would have meant "catching up" to  the
current year in mid-July on the UV side, at which time the  vintage
side would have made it back to 1953. Then there would be a few  more
weeks with just the vintage side working further back. I thought  the
activity would probably be less and less the further back we  went,
since less people are able to collect prewars, 19th century  cards,
etc. So I thought the remaining guys could determine their own  pace
once it got that far back. Heck, once we reach 1968, I don't have  a
whole lot more to offer - just a handful (literally) of dupes  and
bigger and bigger wantlists!

So anyway, I thought 6-8 months was  a LOT of time to allow for a
project which, at the time, I had no idea  whether people would want to
participate in. I've since found out that  there are many who are on
board, on both the vintage and UV sides, and I am  pretty excited about
that. My idea worked! (in more ways than  one!)

As I said, I was originally going to go at about a week at a  time.
But I think maybe a LITTLE slower might encourage a few more people  to
dig out their dupes and participate.

So at least for the time  being, I'm going to move forward (backward)
with the project, bringing each  new year into light...

ON THE FIVES.

That means every 5th, 15th,  and 25th (or so) we add a new year. That
gives more than a week for each  year to be discussed, but not so much
more that people are waiting to move  on. If you're ahead of the pack,
when you've finished organizing your  cards, LOOK at 'em a little. If
you're behind, do what I do and pull out  3-4 years at a time and
organize them to be ready for the next  year.

And that reminds me - there are some who have said it would take  a lot
of work to get their stuff organized, and if we were moving on  too
quickly, they would just drop out. But this project wasn't meant  to
be the only stuff going on, so everyone is ALWAYS free to proceed  at
their own pace. (Thanks Aaron for stating the obvious) You could
just  post a few years at once if you're behind. Or take a while and
get  organized then post whatever you want. I'm not by any means
saying your  posts shouldn't include any other years. I hope that all
sounded right. I'm  not trying to take over, I just want to provide
some new structure for  those who want to go along with it.

Starting ON THE FIVES will allow  each stage to start on a different
day of the week, and allow for different  people to be there to kick
off each year. Some people have more time on the  weekends, others
(like me) sometimes have rather busy weekends (overnight  youth trips,
church, etc) and the occasional lighter day during the  week.

This pace, if we stick to it, will get us to the beginning of  Topps by
the beginning of November, so as the project is wrapping up, we  can
all watch (bet on) the postseason together, and then start looking  for
our OBC Santa stuff. Yeah, almost a whole year for this project.  I'm
sure there will be times when a certain year will not have a whole  lot
of stuff available or something like that, and we can always  adjust

One other thing. If you've read this far, cool.  Thanks. But I
thought it might be good to give the project an official  name. I'm
going with the subject of this post. PROJECT 1979. And next time  it
will be called PROJECT 1978, etc.

1979... Let's get  started!

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:27:47 EST
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, Biggies@aol.com
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: NY SUNDAY GATHERING

Hello All,
This Sunday Their is a Baseball card show in white plains  NY. I wanted to
try and get a bunch of NY/CT or weher ever guys together to do  the show, and
Maybee even go out afterwards and watch some football game...LOL .  Not sure
how great the show will be, but if we get a bunch of OBCers together it  can
only be great.....Let me know if you can make it....
I know I will be their I dont want to be alone...LOL  Lets get a good  OBC
gathering IN NY and make a day out of it

My Cell # is 914-409-2365

Call me if you need info or directions

Rob "The FIREMAN"

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:12:48 EST
To: uvlist@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [uvlist] Project 1982/1979
Content-Language: en

In a message dated 1/15/2008 7:35:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
talbot1@comcast.net writes:

Although I appreciate Tom's enthusiasm I implore you all to wait till
February to move on to other years.  I am just catching up with `80-81  andhaven't
even gotten the cards out that I have been pulling for  people.  If you move
on you will have to do it w/o me because I can't  keep up - I want my hobbyto
be FUN not work so let's please just do 1  grouping a month - just my 2 cents
- do what you wish.

REGARDS --------- MARK

--------------------------  Original mes---
From: "Tom Housley"  

I got a nice jumpstart on the 82 Fleer & Donruss sets I just started  -
I timed it out almost perfectly for Aaron's "PROJECT"  project(?).

I've managed to end up with roughly 200 or so dupes from  the 82 Fleer
& 82 Donruss sets, so if you need 'em - post  em!

My 1982 Wantlist:
383 Perez (no position on  front)

001 003 005 012 016 031 042 054 070 071 073 074  081 094 095 111 113
148 168 200 216 228 231 237 252 294 299 304 312 331  367 387 389 400
405 408 410 419 454 462 480 483 493 510 531 535 557 575  585 624 628
638 639

004 005 007 010 013 014 016 021 024  025 027 030 032 033 036 039 042
043 047 052 053 056 057 066 082 091 092  097 109 114 128 142 143 145
146 153 154 155 156 167 174 175 176 177 185  192 202 204 205 206 210
215 225 226 229 230 233 243 245 247 251 254 256  258 259 261 264 270
271 272 274 276 278 280 281 282 283 284 286 287 289  294 295 300 301
303 305 311 312 314 325 333 337 362 371 387 388 398 405  438 441 442
443 444 447 453 455 456 460 466 468 469 470 473 478 487 489  496 498
499 500 509 530 534 535 538 541 543 544 552 580 582 584 592 596  603
609 611 620 623 626 630 632 633 634 635 636 637 640 641 642 643 645
646 647 659 660

And, why not - here's an "81 rerun" - the  remaining 1981 Fleer &
Donruss variations I need:

1981  DONRUSS VARIATION:
555 (1980 highlights begin with  "Overcame...555

1981 FLEER VARIATIONS:
5a Mike Schmidt  portrait
6C Steve Carlton P3 "Pitcher of the Year" on front, 1966 on  back
7a Tug McGraw "Game Saver" on front
24B Kevin Saucier P2 Name on  front Ken
28A George Brett batting
29A Willie Wilson portrait w/  "Willie Wilson/Outfield" on front.
32A Amos Otis P1 Batting  Pose (in action? If so I have it)
32B Amos Otis P2 Series Starter 483 on  back (portrait?)
79A Reggie Jackson portrait
177A Rick Dempsey P1  Small hand/finger on front
202A George Foster P1 Slugger Number on back  216
362A Kent Tekulve P1 Back 1071 Waterbury
419B Jesse Jefferson P2  Back says Pirates (I have one that says
Pirates on the back =E2=93 but one  variation list I've seen lists TWO
cards with Pirates on the back.  What's the difference??c
419C Jesse Jefferson P3 Back says Blue  Jays
480B Stan Papi P2 Front as Shortstop
483B Amos Otis P2 portrait  See card 32
493A Tim Flannery P1 Batting right (photo reversed)
640  Mike Schmidt portrait, #5 on back
650B Reggie Jackson P2 "Mr. Baseball",  #79 on back
653 Hal McRae Double Threat
655B George Brett P2 390  average on front, #28 on back
657A Tug McGraw P1 Game Saver Number on  back 7
660A Steve Carlton [Golden Arm], date 1066, #6 on  back

Thanks for looking,
Tom Housley

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:27:27 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, uvlist@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [uvlist] Project 1982/1979
Content-Language: en

Yeah I know a lot of you were excited to see such a short note from me on
the last post LOL...

Even though I am ready to move forward, I tend to agree with Mark. 7-10  days
seems kinda short. Only gives basically one weekend for guys to find the
cards. How about a compromise of every 3 weeks? I personally don't care if this
project reaches an end before the National or next Christmas. The ongoing
activity is the key here and I'm sure we will be able to knock the crap outof
each others non-mainstream lists.  I know I have 3-4 3600 count boxes of  80s
stuff that hasn't seen light of day in ages, so this project is great in my
book. I would still like to see a separate group created just for this project,
so guys can sign up if they want to or not (_Yearly_Project@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:Yearly_Project@yahoogroups.com)   ?). And I can organize my emails so
I can just concentrate on the project. Is  this a feasible request? In this
case, it wouldn't matter if it was UV or old  cardboard, just put in the subject
which year you are posting about (i.e. 1982  project, 1979 project). Best
part is we are creating a new way of good activity.

Some where along the line I must have missed the 1981 posts. So having the
separate group would work in this case too.

In a message dated 1/15/2008 7:35:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
talbot1@comcast.net writes:

Although I appreciate Tom's enthusiasm I implore you all to wait till
February to move on to other years.  I am just catching up with `80-81  andhaven't
even gotten the cards out that I have been pulling for  people.  If you move
on you will have to do it w/o me because I can't  keep up - I want my hobbyto
be FUN not work so let's please just do 1  grouping a month - just my 2 cents
- do what you wish.

REGARDS --------- MARK

--------------------------  Original mes---
From: "Tom Housley"  

I got a nice jumpstart on the 82 Fleer & Donruss sets I just started  -
I timed it out almost perfectly for Aaron's "PROJECT"  project(?).

I've managed to end up with roughly 200 or so dupes from  the 82 Fleer
& 82 Donruss sets, so if you need 'em - post  em!

My 1982 Wantlist:
383 Perez (no position on  front)

001 003 005 012 016 031 042 054 070 071 073 074  081 094 095 111 113
148 168 200 216 228 231 237 252 294 299 304 312 331  367 387 389 400
405 408 410 419 454 462 480 483 493 510 531 535 557 575  585 624 628
638 639

004 005 007 010 013 014 016 021 024  025 027 030 032 033 036 039 042
043 047 052 053 056 057 066 082 091 092  097 109 114 128 142 143 145
146 153 154 155 156 167 174 175 176 177 185  192 202 204 205 206 210
215 225 226 229 230 233 243 245 247 251 254 256  258 259 261 264 270
271 272 274 276 278 280 281 282 283 284 286 287 289  294 295 300 301
303 305 311 312 314 325 333 337 362 371 387 388 398 405  438 441 442
443 444 447 453 455 456 460 466 468 469 470 473 478 487 489  496 498
499 500 509 530 534 535 538 541 543 544 552 580 582 584 592 596  603
609 611 620 623 626 630 632 633 634 635 636 637 640 641 642 643 645
646 647 659 660

And, why not - here's an "81 rerun" - the  remaining 1981 Fleer &
Donruss variations I need:

1981  DONRUSS VARIATION:
555 (1980 highlights begin with  "Overcame...555

1981 FLEER VARIATIONS:
5a Mike Schmidt  portrait
6C Steve Carlton P3 "Pitcher of the Year" on front, 1966 on  back
7a Tug McGraw "Game Saver" on front
24B Kevin Saucier P2 Name on  front Ken
28A George Brett batting
29A Willie Wilson portrait w/  "Willie Wilson/Outfield" on front.
32A Amos Otis P1 Batting  Pose (in action? If so I have it)
32B Amos Otis P2 Series Starter 483 on  back (portrait?)
79A Reggie Jackson portrait
177A Rick Dempsey P1  Small hand/finger on front
202A George Foster P1 Slugger Number on back  216
362A Kent Tekulve P1 Back 1071 Waterbury
419B Jesse Jefferson P2  Back says Pirates (I have one that says
Pirates on the back =E2=93 but one  variation list I've seen lists TWO
cards with Pirates on the back.  What's the difference??c
419C Jesse Jefferson P3 Back says Blue  Jays
480B Stan Papi P2 Front as Shortstop
483B Amos Otis P2 portrait  See card 32
493A Tim Flannery P1 Batting right (photo reversed)
640  Mike Schmidt portrait, #5 on back
650B Reggie Jackson P2 "Mr. Baseball",  #79 on back
653 Hal McRae Double Threat
655B George Brett P2 390  average on front, #28 on back
657A Tug McGraw P1 Game Saver Number on  back 7
660A Steve Carlton [Golden Arm], date 1066, #6 on  back

Thanks for looking,
Tom Housley

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 03:47:18 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "uthminsta1" 
Subject: PROJECT - read me!

Okay, I've taken your replies into consideration.  And I know... I've
made a misstep.  I took the lack of posts as a sign that everyone was
done with this year, and waiting to move on.  Not sure why I made that
assumption.  I never wanted this project to be the only thing people
were working on, but I also didn't want it to take forever.

So... let's see if we can do it this way.

1.  Since I've already introduced the 1979 stuff, anyone who wants to
post stuff between now and the end of January can feel free to put
their 1979 AND 1980 stuff up, or just wait until February 1st.

2.  We'll go ahead on February 1st, focusing on 1979.  That means this
project will take several years (wow), but who ever said we were in a
hurry?  It's just something we can look forward to each month.

3.  I'll see if I can set up a Yahoo group specifically for this
project, and try to have it ready by February 1st.  At that time I
will send out a request to the OBC membership to sign up and help out.
Do I need to ask the OBCAC to use the OBC name on a new Yahoo group?

4.  And now I'm going to go watch a movie with my wife instead of
organizing 1979 dupes.  So there!!!

=================

To: "vct" ,
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:56:52 -0500
From: "ant" 
Subject: off to Palm Springs

Hello All,
I will be doing some business until Sunday mourning. I am staying at the Hyatt
Grand Champs & should be free saturady after 2 pm. I am having my Father
come along.
Anyone in the hood just let me know & leave me a message

anthony arbeeny
=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:16:44 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "jimbo777777" 
Subject: The Feedback Fiasco

Regular programming is interrupted for a special news bulletin.

I know everyone is tired of hearing about this, so I'll be brief.

I wrote to my seller, to get his perspective on the "buyer feedbacks
first" issue.  We had a nice exchange.  His perspective was much as our
dissenters noted, having been burned by unscrupulous buyers.  He then
decided to go ahead and leave my feedback, even though I haven't gotten
the card yet.

I'm sure they won't all turn out this well, but at least this one did.

We now return to our regularly scheduled fiascos.  :)

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:37:38 EST
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] PROJECT - read me!

wow, has this become about 100 times more complicated than it needed to  be!

In a message dated 1/15/2008 9:47:37 PM Central Standard Time,
uthminsta@hotmail.com writes:

Okay, I've taken your replies into consideration. And I know...  I've
made a misstep. I took the lack of posts as a sign that everyone  was
done with this year, and waiting to move on. Not sure why I made  that
assumption. I never wanted this project to be the only thing  people
were working on, but I also didn't want it to take  forever.

So... let's see if we can do it this way.

1. Since I've  already introduced the 1979 stuff, anyone who wants to
post stuff between  now and the end of January can feel free to put
their 1979 AND 1980 stuff  up, or just wait until February 1st.

2. We'll go ahead on February 1st,  focusing on 1979. That means this
project will take several years (wow),  but who ever said we were in a
hurry? It's just something we can look  forward to each month.

3. I'll see if I can set up a Yahoo group  specifically for this
project, and try to have it ready by February 1st. At  that time I
will send out a request to the OBC membership to sign up and  help out.
Do I need to ask the OBCAC to use the OBC name on a new Yahoo  group?

4. And now I'm going to go watch a movie with my wife instead  of
organizing 1979 dupes. So there!!!

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:52:58 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Ken M" 
Subject: (1980) Project Ideas

--- In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, "uthminsta1"  wrote:
> 1.  Since I've already introduced the 1979 stuff, anyone who wants to
> post stuff between now and the end of January can feel free to put
> their 1979 AND 1980 stuff up, or just wait until February 1st.
> 2.  We'll go ahead on February 1st, focusing on 1979.  That means this
> project will take several years (wow), but who ever said we were in a
> hurry?  It's just something we can look forward to each month.
> 3.  I'll see if I can set up a Yahoo group specifically for this
> project, and try to have it ready by February 1st.  At that time I
> will send out a request to the OBC membership to sign up and help out.
>  Do I need to ask the OBCAC to use the OBC name on a new Yahoo group?
> 4.  And now I'm going to go watch a movie with my wife instead of
> organizing 1979 dupes.  So there!!!
> Aaron
Aaron (all),
Why not use the wantlist server and UV list for the two years we concentrate
on every
month? Currently both servers rarely see over 50 messages per month (at least
over the
last six years that each are archived). That might change with the added activity
from the
project(s), but it still doesn't compare to the 200+ messages per month on the
Thanks and
Ramblings servers. We could post the year the message relates to in the subject
line (as I
have done with this message), so that those who aren't interested or have no
dupes from a
particular year can easily decide if the message is worth reading.
I think once a month is a pretty good pace, even if it might take a couple
years to
eventually concentrate on all the sets in our collections. Maybe as we go further
back and
people's dupes boxes become sparser (like when we eventually reach the early
60's and
50's), then we can pick up the pace to maybe a couple weeks. I think the recent
lack of
activity isn't because people lost interest and were ready to move on, but rather
they were
waiting for the Post Office to do their jobs and lists to get updated. Well,
that's what I'm
waiting for anyway. It took me a couple days to sort out my 1980 (and 1981)dupes
team order to numerical, so I'm just ready to hit some lists NOW. However, I
don't want to
send the same card to someone who just got it, nor do I want to see the rest
of you move
the dance now that I'm all dressed up and ready to go. I might've lost out on
opportunity to get rid of the twenty or so Otto Velez cards, but I'm all ready
if we happen
to revisit these sets a few years down the road (or somebody joins the party
later on). I
haven't even looked to see if I have any football, hockey or basketball in the
mess of a
closet I have yet either. Sure the project might take a few years to finish,
but I don't have a
time limit on when I have to finish all my sets, nor do I plan on going anywhere
for the
next few years - I'll be here when we end this thing and start back over again
Spending some QT with the wife is definitely the way to go instead of sorting
out those
1979's. I was fortunate enough to have my girlfriend ask me if she could help
me sort out
the 7 or 8 Land O Lakes cheese boxes of 1981's with me - whatta gal!
I was also thinking that those of you who might be so inclined could retell
a collecting
story or two (or non-collecting stories for that matter) about the particular
year we're
concentrating on that month on the Ramblings server. Yeah, a few of you youngin's
still in diapers in 1980, so you might have to wait a couple months to share
your stories
on the UV server  I think it would be great to hear from some of the... ahem,
life experienced" OBC'ers on what they were doing, if they went to any games
that year,
how their team did, or whatever. I think in 1980, I was a freshman in High School,
there's probably no stories that wouldn't make me look completely akward orfoolish
(as if
anything's changed in 28+ years since then). Well, if you're still reading,you
have my
highest commendation. I'll let you get back to sorting cards/checking lists/something
more constructive that you were doing before you read this. TAYL,

Ken M

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:03:42 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com,
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: wantlists

seems to me there is a simple solution.  i think somewhere we have a  "who
collects what" list posted.   its probably linked to the obc  site.

my understanding was that if i have a bunch of 1980 dupes i want to get rid
of, i should be able to go to that list, see who is collecting, for example,
1980 topps, and then check out their lists.

while that is not as easy as having all of the actual wantlists on one  link,
i dont think that was ever going to happen anyway.  i could print out  each
email with a 1980 wantlist on it, but i already have enough paper  floating

to be honest, i have been too lazy to check out this list, wherever it  is.
but if i wanted to get rid of all my 1980s dupes, as long as that list  of
"lookers" is up to date, i should be fine.

so instead of deciding how many months/days/hours/minutes/seconds need to
pass before a new year gets "activated", why dont we concentrate first on making
sure the "who collects what" list is up to date.  once that occurs, if
someone wants to send a post saying "ok, lets hit the 1980 lists", that would be
fine.  but sending all these emails is counter productive.  like mark,  i just
tend to ignore them unless they hit on the day when i am sending out  cards.

so, if someone who knows could let us al know once again where the "who
collects what" list is and how we can update our listing (i assume the list is
organized by year and not by collector), that will go a long way to helping
those who want to hit a certain year.

great idea to get this started, i think just an easier, less complicated  and
less time pressured solution is available.

tnx, gm

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:28:25 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com,
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)

ahh, the uv conundrum.  i just checked out the who collects what  list.
guess what?  it stops at 1980.

with all of the emails flying around, it should be obvious now that there
are a lot of obc'ers who collect post-1980 cards.

if the obcac does not want to change their stance on where uv lists can be
posted, or where thanks are posted, i am fine with that.

what i would ask is that the obcac consider allowing post-1980 lists to be
added to the "who collects what" list if that is what everyone wants.

and can someone tell me how we can add/delete our names from a particular
set on that list?

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:42:54 -0800 (PST)
To: Originaleek@webtv.net, OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

Do you know that Gladding had perhaps the lowest non-.000 career batting average in major league history?

(.016 - 1 for 63)

----- Original Message ----
From: "Originaleek@webtv.net" 
To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:55:37 PM
Subject: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

A couple of names that keep popping up on the Thanks server of late have
included me in their mailings.

An apologetic late thanks out to T.J. VALACAK for a couple psychos one
of which was former Tiger Fred Gladding. For some reason I want to say
that Fred was referred to as the "Bear". Perhaps a FOOT member could
confirm this? Or not!
Regardless Fred & his traveling mate are much appreciated T.J. Thanks!

ROB "the Fireman" GIOIA II fires three 55T's my way including Tiger Reno
Bertoia. As a kid I thought that was a cool name and my cruddy buddy
Alan, thought I was weird for thinking so. I don't think it's such a
cool name now, but Alan still thinks I'm weird. Thanks Rob, much

"We keep what we give away"

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

To: OBC Ramblings 
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:16:21 -0500
From: Bob Reed 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

That's correct, Gladdings .016 average is the lowest for players with at least
1 hit.  However the lowest with a minimum of 500 at bats belongs to my HOMer
Dean Chance (44 for 662, .066 with 420 STRIKEOUTS!)

Gladding got his hit on July 30, 1969 of Ron Taylor of the Mets.  He singled
in the 9th and scored on a grand slam by Jim Wynn.  It was the second grand
slam Houston hit during the 11 run inning.

To: Originaleek@webtv.net; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.comFrom: glenncodere@yahoo.comDate:
Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:42:54 -0800Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Thanks]
Busy OBCers

Do you know that Gladding had perhaps the lowest non-.000 career batting average
in major league history?

(.016 - 1 for 63)

----- Original Message ----From: "Originaleek@webtv.net" To:
OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:55:37
PMSubject: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

A couple of names that keep popping up on the Thanks server of late haveincluded
me in their mailings.An apologetic late thanks out to T.J. VALACAK for
a couple psychos oneof which was former Tiger Fred Gladding. For some reason
I want to saythat Fred was referred to as the "Bear". Perhaps a FOOT member
couldconfirm this? Or not!Regardless Fred & his traveling mate are much
appreciated T.J. Thanks!ROB "the Fireman" GIOIA II fires three 55T's my way
including Tiger RenoBertoia. As a kid I thought that was a cool name andmy
cruddy buddyAlan, thought I was weird for thinking so. I don't think it's
such acool name now, but Alan still thinks I'm weird. Thanks Rob, muchappreciated."We
keep what we give away"

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocidTXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:58:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Bob Reed ,
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

...and I'm sure that I actually saw Chance strikeout in person!

Chance pitched with a very good 1971 Detroit Tigers team. Unfortunately, Deano didn't get too much support as a starter in the early part of the season. In 11 starts for Apr 11 to May 30, Chance went 1-6 with 4 no-decisions - despite putting up a very respectible 2.98 ERA. Billy Martin sent him to the bullpen soon afterwards. He started only 3 more games that season to finish his career.

I remember going to Tiger Stadium with my local Boys Club early that year. The Tigers were playing the Senators, and Chance was the starter. Turned out to be one of his better games. He pitched 7+ innings of shutout ball, and the Tigers won 1-0 (Baseball Reference is truly an amazing tool!).

The Tigers finished 12 games behind the Orioles that year, thanks to their inability to find some consistency from the #3 and #4 starting slots. After Lolich and Coleman. there were slim pickings indeed!

ps Chance DID strike out in that game - twice!

----- Original Message ----
From: Bob Reed 
To: OBC Ramblings 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:16:21 PM
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

That's correct, Gladdings .016 average is the lowest for players with at least 1 hit.  However the lowest with a minimum of 500 at bats belongs to my HOMer Dean Chance (44 for 662, .066 with 420 STRIKEOUTS!)

Gladding got his hit on July 30, 1969 of Ron Taylor of the Mets.  He singled in the 9th and scored on a grand slam by Jim Wynn.  It was the second grand slam Houston hit during the 11 run inning.

To: Originaleek@ webtv.net; OBC-Ramblings@ yahoogroups. com
From: glenncodere@ yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:42:54 -0800
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

Do you know that Gladding had perhaps the lowest non-.000 career batting average in major league history?

(.016 - 1 for 63)

----- Original Message ----
From: "Originaleek@ webtv.net" 
To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:55:37 PM
Subject: [OBC-Thanks] Busy OBCers

A couple of names that keep popping up on the Thanks server of late have
included me in their mailings.

An apologetic late thanks out to T.J. VALACAK for a couple psychos one
of which was former Tiger Fred Gladding. For some reason I want to say
that Fred was referred to as the "Bear". Perhaps a FOOT member could
confirm this? Or not!
Regardless Fred & his traveling mate are much appreciated T.J. Thanks!

ROB "the Fireman" GIOIA II fires three 55T's my way including Tiger Reno
Bertoia. As a kid I thought that was a cool name and my cruddy buddy
Alan, thought I was weird for thinking so. I don't think it's such a
cool name now, but Alan still thinks I'm weird. Thanks Rob, much

"We keep what we give away"

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Start sharing!

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

=================

To: "obc" 
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:37:10 -0600
From: "ken goetsch" 
Subject: Anybody goin to the AFC. Championship Game?????????????????

Is there anyone going to the AFC championship game this Sunday.Patriots-vs-Chargers?

I am looking for somebody to get  me a game program....for trade.for a Packers-vs-Giants

My boss is going and getting some programs..........I would love to trade 1for

Ken Goetsch

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:11:28 -0500
To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" 
From: "Steve Rittenberg" 
Subject: Moving tips

Has anyone moved recently?  What advice can you give about how to pack
albums for moving long distance (900 miles).   I know dealers pack
albums into tubs but I have too many for that.  How many?  Well, I
think I have 2 6' bookcases, a 4' bookcase and a 3' bookcase, all full
of albums.  That's a lot of HEAVY tubs.  So maybe we are talking about
lots and lot of small boxes?

Any real suggestions appreciated.  Any suggestions such as "how about
you send me all your cards and then you don't have to pack" will be
viewed with scorn.

Hmm - Geno:  How did the Air Force move your stuff?   I don't have
unlimited funds but you are the first person that comes to mind.   JSG
- Have you moved several times since you joined OBC?

I'm also thinking about storing cards with a friend.  I don't need to
move the box with my 1980s Donruss or Fleer run.   That's two boxes
(each one holds 9 800 count boxes).  What about the other 20 or 30?
Ugh.  What have I gotten myself into?

Steve Rittenberg

=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:02:43 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "rrrlyons" 
Subject: Has anyone traded with Jim Hopkins of OPCC

=================

To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" , "Steve Rittenberg" 
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:03:38 -0500
From: "obcjohn@knology.net" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Moving tips

I just moved about 4 miles at a cost of about 4K (lots of heavy antiquesthat
needed disassembly and assembly)  If you can move the records and books
yourself, you'll save mucho bucks, as you are charged by the pound.  I would
suggest book boxes for the records, not tubs.  When I moved 20 years ago,
rather than paying the moving charges, I donated most of my record collection
of around 1500 albums to the Hampden-Sydney College radio station and
took a tax write off.

On Wed Jan 16 19:11 , "Steve Rittenberg"  sent:

>            Has anyone moved recently?  What advice can you give about howto
>albums for moving long distance (900 miles).   I know dealers pack
>albums into tubs but I have too many for that.  How many?  Well, I
>think I have 2 6' bookcases, a 4' bookcase and a 3' bookcase, all full
>of albums.  That's a lot of HEAVY tubs.  So maybe we are talking about
>lots and lot of small boxes?
>Any real suggestions appreciated.  Any suggestions such as "how about
>you send me all your cards and then you don't have to pack" will be
>viewed with scorn.
>Hmm - Geno:  How did the Air Force move your stuff?   I don't have
>unlimited funds but you are the first person that comes to mind.   JSG
>- Have you moved several times since you joined OBC?
>I'm also thinking about storing cards with a friend.  I don't need to
>move the box with my 1980s Donruss or Fleer run.   That's two boxes
>(each one holds 9 800 count boxes).  What about the other 20 or 30?
>Ugh.  What have I gotten myself into?
>Steve Rittenberg

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:10:43 -0800 (PST)
To: Steve Rittenberg ,
From: Geno Wagner 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Moving tips

Steve --

The USAF just contracts it out.  A bunch of guys show
up and stick everything into non-descript boxes.  If
you're not careful, they'll stick your dog in there...

I never let the USAF move my stuff - I always stuffed
the car with it - much to my wife's annoyance.  She
always thought other stuff was more important to fit
in, like wedding pics, kids, pets, etc.  Of course,
when I moved to England, this created a bit of a
problem.  I ended up UPSing all my stuff to my parents
house, where it sit to this day.  The upside is that I
have more room in my house; the downside is that my
dupes box blows.

To tell you the truth, I'm thinking of selling/trading
off a lot of my stuff to finance my T202/T205 craze.
I had fun putting together some of those sets, but
they are "trading cards" after all.  I'd rather have
another T202 than a McGwire RC, so if somebody wants
to buy it from me, I say let them have it...

Take Care,
--- Steve Rittenberg  wrote:

> Has anyone moved recently?  What advice can you give
> about how to pack
> albums for moving long distance (900 miles).   I
> know dealers pack
> albums into tubs but I have too many for that.  How
> many?  Well, I
> think I have 2 6' bookcases, a 4' bookcase and a 3'
> bookcase, all full
> of albums.  That's a lot of HEAVY tubs.  So maybe we
> are talking about
> lots and lot of small boxes?
> Any real suggestions appreciated.  Any suggestions
> such as "how about
> you send me all your cards and then you don't have
> to pack" will be
> viewed with scorn.
> Hmm - Geno:  How did the Air Force move your stuff?
>  I don't have
> unlimited funds but you are the first person that
> comes to mind.   JSG
> - Have you moved several times since you joined OBC?
> I'm also thinking about storing cards with a friend.
>  I don't need to
> move the box with my 1980s Donruss or Fleer run.
> That's two boxes
> (each one holds 9 800 count boxes).  What about the
> other 20 or 30?
> Ugh.  What have I gotten myself into?
> Steve Rittenberg

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

=================

To: Ken M , 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:48:06 +0000
From: LYONS RONI 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] (1980) Project Ideas

I have to agree 3 to 4 weeks would be the best turn around. I do stuff withmy
cards every day buy on ebay ,trade ,put cards away,pull cards for people
and I would not be able to keep up every 10 days. It took quite a few days
for people to post then pull cards, I just got 2 packages today for the 80's
project then I have to find time to pull cards for these and firing back
will take priority over starting in the next year it's the first year andI'm
already behind.  And yes I needed that Otto Velez card and I got 3. thanks

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.comFrom: cardclctor@aol.comDate: Wed, 16 Jan 2008
14:52:58 +0000Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] (1980) Project Ideas

--- In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, "uthminsta1"  wrote:>>1.
Since I've already introduced the 1979 stuff, anyone who wants to> poststuff
between now and the end of January can feel free to put> their 1979 AND
1980 stuff up, or just wait until February 1st.> > 2. We'll go ahead onFebruary
1st, focusing on 1979. That means this> project will take severalyears
(wow), but who ever said we were in a> hurry? It's just something wecan
look forward to each month.> > 3. I'll see if I can set up a Yahoo group
specifically for this> project, and try to have it ready by February 1st.
At that time I> will send out a request to the OBC membership to sign up and
help out.> Do I need to ask the OBCAC to use the OBC name on a new Yahoo
group?> > 4. And now I'm going to go watch a movie with my wife instead of>
organizing 1979 dupes. So there!!!> > Aaron>Aaron (all),Why not use the wantlist
server and UV list for the two years we concentrate on every month?
Currently both servers rarely see over 50 messages per month (at least over
the last six years that each are archived). That might change with the added
activity from the project(s), but it still doesn't compare to the 200+messages
per month on the Thanks and Ramblings servers. We could post the year
the message relates to in the subject line (as I have done with this message),
so that those who aren't interested or have no dupes from a particular
year can easily decide if the message is worth reading.I think once a month
is a pretty good pace, even if it might take a couple years to eventually
concentrate on all the sets in our collections. Maybe as we go furtherback
and people's dupes boxes become sparser (like when we eventually reach
the early 60's and 50's), then we can pick up the pace to maybe a couple weeks.
I think the recent lack of activity isn't because people lost interest
and were ready to move on, but rather they were waiting for the Post Office
to do their jobs and lists to get updated. Well, that's what I'm waiting
for anyway. It took me a couple days to sort out my 1980 (and 1981) dupesfrom
team order to numerical, so I'm just ready to hit some lists NOW. However,
I don't want to send the same card to someone who just got it, nor doI
want to see the rest of you move the dance now that I'm all dressed up and
ready to go. I might've lost out on an opportunity to get rid of the twenty
or so Otto Velez cards, but I'm all ready if we happen to revisit thesesets
a few years down the road (or somebody joins the party later on). I haven't
even looked to see if I have any football, hockey or basketball in the
mess of a closet I have yet either. Sure the project might take a few years
to finish, but I don't have a time limit on when I have to finish all my
sets, nor do I plan on going anywhere for the next few years - I'll be here
when we end this thing and start back over again ;-)Spending some QT with
the wife is definitely the way to go instead of sorting out those 1979's.I
was fortunate enough to have my girlfriend ask me if she could help me sort
out the 7 or 8 Land O Lakes cheese boxes of 1981's with me - whatta gal!I
was also thinking that those of you who might be so inclined could retell
a collecting story or two (or non-collecting stories for that matter) about
the particular year we're concentrating on that month on the Ramblings server.
Yeah, a few of you youngin's were still in diapers in 1980, so you might
have to wait a couple months to share your stories on the UV server 
I think it would be great to hear from some of the... ahem, "more life experienced"
OBC'ers on what they were doing, if they went to any games that year,
how their team did, or whatever. I think in 1980, I was a freshman inHigh
School, so there's probably no stories that wouldn't make me look completely
akward or foolish (as if anything's changed in 28+ years since then).
Well, if you're still reading, you have my highest commendation. I'll let
you get back to sorting cards/checking lists/something way more constructive
that you were doing before you read this. TAYL,Ken M

=================

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:22:36 EST
To: srittenberg@gmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: LUURSCJG@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Moving tips

they wouldn't take my cards when we moved because of the cost to replace
them if something happened

In a message dated 1/16/2008 6:11:48 P.M. Central Standard Time,
srittenberg@gmail.com writes:

Has anyone moved recently? What advice can you give about how to  pack
albums for moving long distance (900 miles). I know dealers  pack
albums into tubs but I have too many for that. How many? Well,  I
think I have 2 6' bookcases, a 4' bookcase and a 3' bookcase, all  full
of albums. That's a lot of HEAVY tubs. So maybe we are talking  about
lots and lot of small boxes?

Any real suggestions appreciated.  Any suggestions such as "how about
you send me all your cards and then you  don't have to pack" will be
viewed with scorn.

Hmm - Geno: How did  the Air Force move your stuff? I don't have
unlimited funds but you are the  first person that comes to mind. JSG
- Have you moved several times since  you joined OBC?

I'm also thinking about storing cards with a friend. I  don't need to
move the box with my 1980s Donruss or Fleer run. That's two  boxes
(each one holds 9 800 count boxes). What about the other 20 or  30?
Ugh. What have I gotten myself into?

Steve  Rittenberg

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: "Ken M" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:31:20 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] (1980) Project Ideas

Ken is BACK - with a ramble worthy of his namesake Morganesque.  Thanks for your words and Yes I read the WHOLE thing.  BE WELL!!!!

REGARDS -------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ken M" 
--- In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, "uthminsta1"  wrote:
> 1. Since I've already introduced the 1979 stuff, anyone who wants to
> post stuff between now and the end of January can feel free to put
> their 1979 AND 1980 stuff up, or just wait until February 1st.
> 2. We'll go ahead on February 1st, focusing on 1979. That means this
> project will take several years (wow), but who ever said we were in a
> hurry? It's just something we can look forward to each month.
> 3. I'll see if I can set up a Yahoo group specifically for this
> project, and try to have it ready by February 1st. At that time I
> will send out a request to the OBC membership to sign up and help out.
> Do I need to ask the OBCAC to use the OBC name on a new Yahoo group?
> 4. And now I'm going to go watch a movie with my wife instead of
> organizing 1979 dupes. So there!!!
> Aaron
Aaron (all),
Why not use the wantlist server and UV list for the two years we concentrate on every
month? Currently both servers rarely see over 50 messages per month (at least over the
last six years that each are archived). That might change with the added activity from the
project(s), but it still doesn't compare to the 200+ messages per month on the Thanks and
Ramblings servers. We could post the year the message relates to in the subject line (as I
have done with this message), so that those who aren't interested or have no dupes from a
particular year can easily decide if the message is worth reading.
I think once a month is a pretty good pace, even if it might take a couple years to
eventually concentrate on all the sets in our collections. Maybe as we go further back and
people's dupes boxes become sparser (like when we eventually reach the early 60's and
50's), then we can pick up the pace to maybe a couple weeks. I think the recent lack of
activity isn't because people lost interest and were ready to move on, but rather they were
waiting for the Post Office to do their jobs and lists to get updated. Well, that's what I'm
waiting for anyway. It took me a couple days to sort out my 1980 (and 1981) dupes from
team order to numerical, so I'm just ready to hit some lists NOW. However, I don't want to
send the same card to someone who just got it, nor do I want to see the rest of you move
the dance now that I'm all dressed up and ready to go. I might've lost out on an
opportunity to get rid of the twenty or so Otto Velez cards, but I'm all ready if we happen
to revisit these sets a few years down the road (or somebody joins the party later on). I
haven't even looked to see if I have any football, hockey or basketball in the mess of a
closet I have yet either. Sure the project might take a few years to finish, but I don't have a
time limit on when I have to finish all my sets, nor do I plan on going anywhere for the
next few years - I'll be here when we end this thing and start back over again ;-)
Spending some QT with the wife is definitely the way to go instead of sorting out those
1979's. I was fortunate enough to have my girlfriend ask me if she could help me sort out
the 7 or 8 Land O Lakes cheese boxes of 1981's with me - whatta gal!
I was also thinking that those of you who might be so inclined could retell a collecting
story or two (or non-collecting stories for that matter) about the particular year we're
concentrating on that month on the Ramblings server. Yeah, a few of you youngin's were
still in diapers in 1980, so you might have to wait a couple months to share your stories
on the UV server  I think it would be great to hear from some of the... ahem, "more
life experienced" OBC'ers on what they were doing, if they went to any games that year,
how their team did, or whatever. I think in 1980, I was a freshman in High School, so
there's probably no stories that wouldn't make me look completely akward or foolish (as if
anything's changed in 28+ years since then). Well, if you're still reading, you have my
highest commendation. I'll let you get back to sorting cards/checking lists/something way
more constructive that you were doing before you read this. TAYL,

Ken M

=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:56:40 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Moving tips

Ray raises a good point here.

If you do contract the moving of your valuables out (I'm talking cards and albums here, not the useless items like appliances, furniture, etc.) be sure that you have adequate insurance to protect you should anything go wrong.

Have you considered hiring a self-drive van for a few days? That might be the cheapest option all told.

----- Original Message ----
From: "LUURSCJG@aol.com" 
To: srittenberg@gmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Moving tips

they wouldn't take my cards when we moved because of the cost to replace them if something happened

In a message dated 1/16/2008 6:11:48 P.M. Central Standard Time, srittenberg@ gmail.com writes:
Has anyone moved recently? What advice can you give about how to pack
albums for moving long distance (900 miles). I know dealers pack
albums into tubs but I have too many for that. How many? Well, I
think I have 2 6' bookcases, a 4' bookcase and a 3' bookcase, all full
of albums. That's a lot of HEAVY tubs. So maybe we are talking about
lots and lot of small boxes?

Any real suggestions appreciated. Any suggestions such as "how about
you send me all your cards and then you don't have to pack" will be
viewed with scorn.

Hmm - Geno: How did the Air Force move your stuff? I don't have
unlimited funds but you are the first person that comes to mind. JSG
- Have you moved several times since you joined OBC?

I'm also thinking about storing cards with a friend. I don't need to
move the box with my 1980s Donruss or Fleer run. That's two boxes
(each one holds 9 800 count boxes). What about the other 20 or 30?
Ugh. What have I gotten myself into?

Steve Rittenberg

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:23:00 EST
To: uthminsta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: biggies@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] PROJECT: 1979

Here are my 79's for trade:

1979:  2.5.11.13.20.21.31.34.37.38.46.59.61.62.

Lmk and thanks to all,  Bob   Bannon

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:44:04 -0500
From: "Chuck Paris" 
Subject: eBay PayPal Problem I think

Anyone seen/used a new feature that allows you to checkout/pay for wins from
multiple sellers at once.  I figured I'd go along with it but had a bad feeling
about it.

Now as I look back at one of the items, the seller doesn't even take PayPal.

I think the entire amount may have gone to one seller.  It's not much but probably
will be a pain to fix.

You may want to be careful if you run into this.

=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:41:09 -0500
To: Chuck Paris 
From: Don Rice 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] eBay PayPal Problem I think



I would advise AGAINST using
that feature, as it doesn't (or at least it didn't the last time I
looked at it) allow you to review each sale individually for accuracy.
On it's surface, it looks quick and convenient. BUT... you thus run the
risk of losing out on shipping discounts, combined
orders (depending on the seller's settings), etc. It is fraught with
downside risks, so beware.  Don

Chuck Paris wrote:



Anyone seen/used a new feature that
allows you to checkout/pay for wins from multiple sellers at once.  I
figured I'd go along with it but had a bad feeling about it.


Now as I look back at one of the
items, the seller doesn't even take PayPal.


I think the entire amount may have
gone to one seller.  It's not much but probably will be a pain to fix.


You may want to be careful if you
run into this.


Chuck


=================

To: "Don Rice" 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:33:34 -0500
From: "chuckparis" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] eBay PayPal Problem I think

Looks like I don't have a problem after all........ I was thinking I only won
two items but it was actually three.  Looking at things in better detailnow
after a few cups of coffee, it appears that the system did pay for thetwo
items that took PayPal properly and left the third for me to pay by check.

I do agree with Don though and will probably avoid this process in the future.
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Rice
To: Chuck Paris
Cc: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] eBay PayPal Problem I think

I would advise AGAINST using that feature, as it doesn't (or at least it didn't
the last time I looked at it) allow you to review each sale individually
for accuracy. On it's surface, it looks quick and convenient. BUT... you
thus run the risk of losing out on shipping discounts, combined orders (depending
on the seller's settings), etc. It is fraught with downside risks,
so beware.  Don

Chuck Paris wrote:

Anyone seen/used a new feature that allows you to checkout/pay for winsfrom
multiple sellers at once.  I figured I'd go along with it but had a bad
feeling about it.

Now as I look back at one of the items, the seller doesn't even take PayPal.

I think the entire amount may have gone to one seller.  It's not much but
probably will be a pain to fix.

You may want to be careful if you run into this.

=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:35:35 EST
To: dkrice@nycap.rr.com, chuckparis@comcast.net
From: biggies@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] eBay PayPal Problem I think

I use the multiple payment option all the time. The set up is still while  on
the Ebay site and you can definitely look at individual auctions, delete any
that you don't want paid at that time and configure shipping discounts

Unless I am missing something or speaking about the wrong thing, I find it  a
time savor.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: ,
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:38:19 -0500
From: "Jim Beauchemin" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] eBay PayPal Problem I think

I've had excellent experiences with it also.  In fact, I've gone so far as to
hold off paying for a brief time, if I have another auction ending shortly,
just so that I could get them all in one swoop.

----- Original Message -----
From: biggies@aol.com
To: dkrice@nycap.rr.com ; chuckparis@comcast.net
Cc: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] eBay PayPal Problem I think

I use the multiple payment option all the time. The set up is still whileon
the Ebay site and you can definitely look at individual auctions, delete
any that you don't want paid at that time and configure shipping discounts

Unless I am missing something or speaking about the wrong thing, I find it
a time savor.

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

=================

To: 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:36:20 +0000
From: david.skoglund@att.net
Subject: Re: (1980) Project Ideas

Ken M. said:

> Spending some QT with the wife is definitely the way to go instead of sorting  out those
> 1979's. I was fortunate enough to have my girlfriend ask me if she could help me
> sort out the 7 or 8 Land O Lakes cheese boxes of 1981's with me - whatta gal!

A wife and a girlfriend? Its a wonder you have time for cards at all.... ;)

=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:51:46 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: (1980) Project Ideas

You forgot to add in his role as the OBC Mafia Enforcer.

----- Original Message ----
From: "david.skoglund@att.net" 
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:36:20 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: (1980) Project Ideas

Ken M. said:

> Spending some QT with the wife is definitely the way to go instead of sorting  out those
> 1979's. I was fortunate enough to have my girlfriend ask me if she could help me
> sort out the 7 or 8 Land O Lakes cheese boxes of 1981's with me - whatta gal!

A wife and a girlfriend? Its a wonder you have time for cards at all.... ;)

david.skoglund@ att.net

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

To: o b 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:10:20 -0500
From: jeff sinclair 
Subject: 1979 short story

Before I tell my tale I do want to say that this project is a good idea andlike
Ken I have no time limits on my collecting and hope to be here when we
start over in a couple of years.......

1979 was a great year in my life. A couple of weeks from now I'll be turning
47, but in 1979 I was turning eighteen, getting ready to graduate from Chartiers
Valley High School, and preparing to start my higher education at Indiana
University of PA. (the latter would take me a few extra years to complete
and wind up at Pitt). The Pirates and Steelers were on top of the world,
Bradshaw and Stargell were on the cover of Sports Illustarted, and I was
driving a 1971 Mercury Comet for about three bucks a week in gas. I played
against Marino the previous fall and stuck him pretty good one time, thatmay
have been the only time I touched him. They ran the option and he was pretty
slick on the move then. That game (non-conference) was all his but we
went on to the WPIAL Playoffs that year for the first time in a very longtime
as I remember. Of course we promptly lost our first game against Upper
St Clair when my best friend in the world fumbled the kick off with minutes
to play leading to the winning score and a furious comeback for the bad guys.
Still a win for me as I met one of their cheerleaders after the game and
fell in love (until the fall of '79 at least). And, my butterfingered friend
was the best man at my wedding years later proving that time does heal
all wounds. Time to use three bucks in gas taking my son to baseball conditioning
before pulling out the box of '79 dupes.

"Do you remember the feel of the candy store steps?"
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?sourcetext_hotmail_join
=================

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 03:29:14 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "uthminsta1" 
Subject: Tha PROJECT.

Hey... I went ahead and set up the OBC Year Project mailing group.

If you're interested in joining, whether you want to post availables
and wants, or just check out what goes on, email:

This should take the bulk of that activity out of the Ramblings,
Wantlist and UV servers, so others don't have to see so many posts
they're not interested in.  I will occasionally post an update in the
Ramblings server, such as when we begin a new year, set kills, etc.

=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:36:07 EST
To: david.skoglund@att.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: (1980) Project Ideas

I kinda looked twice at that also....will there be an OBC table at the
wedding? Think of all the envelopes filled with cards instead of cash...

In a message dated 1/17/2008 11:37:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.skoglund@att.net writes:

Ken M. said:

> Spending some QT with the wife is definitely the way to go instead  of
sorting  out those
> 1979's. I was fortunate enough to have my girlfriend ask me if she  could
help me
> sort out the 7 or 8 Land O Lakes cheese boxes of 1981's with me -  whatta

A wife and a girlfriend? Its a wonder you have time for cards at all....  ;)

_david.skoglund@david.s_ (mailto:david.skoglund@att.net)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: , ,
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:06:12 -0500
From: Aaron Shirley 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: (1980) Project Ideas

Yeah, umm... that was MY wife and KEN's girlfriend.  I wish my wife liked sorting
cards.  She doesn't even buy cards for me because she says if I wantsomething
I'm going to get it anyway, so why should she buy me the wrong ones,
etc... And then she says all those guys in OBC send you more cards than
you need anyway!
So, hey... are there any OBC guys who are getting married soon?  That wouldbe
awesome to "shower" them with a bunch of cards like that :)

To: david.skoglund@att.net; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:36:07 -0500
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: (1980) Project Ideas

I kinda looked twice at that also....will there be an OBC table at the
wedding? Think of all the envelopes filled with cards instead of cash...

In a message dated 1/17/2008 11:37:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
david.skoglund@att.net writes:

Ken M. said:

> Spending some QT with the wife is definitely the way to go instead
of sorting  out those
> 1979's. I was fortunate enough to have my girlfriend ask me if she
could help me
> sort out the 7 or 8 Land O Lakes cheese boxes of 1981's with me -
whatta gal!

A wife and a girlfriend? Its a wonder you have time for cards at all....

Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?sourcetext_hotmail_join
=================

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:51:00 EST
To: OBCWantlist@yahoogroups.com, OBCYearProject@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: 1979 Project

Well I figure I'd give this a shot.  These are the cards I'm sending  out so
far. Maybe once everyone joins the year project group, we can minimize  the
amount of triples that get sent around. I know it kinda kills the surprise,  but
does anyone really want 15 Rafael Landestoy's?

To Bob Reed:

To Rick Lyons:

I have some also for the less condition sensitive, so post that in your

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:53:54 EST
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: 52 Topps Snider

Hey all,
Since my wife Banned me  from buying on ebay I figured id share this
with you.
I saw this on ebay to see what i will be missing out on for a little while
Im not wokring on the 52T but if you are this looks like a good deal..
_1952  Topps Duke Snider #37 vg Great Filler Card no res! - eBay (item
320207347688 end  time Jan-20-08 13:55:06 PST)_
(http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-Topps-Duke-Snider-37-vg-Great-Filler-Card-no-res_W0QQitemZ320207347688QQihZ011QQcat

I hope an OBCer wins it...Not this card dealer

Rob "The FIREMAN"

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:53:07 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: directorth@aol.com
Subject: AOL/Wantlist problem

I'm having upload problems with AOL when I try to update my wantlist. Even
though I have plenty of space on my FTP space, each time I attempt to upload a
file I get an upload failed meesage, with this explanation - "no space on
device". So, my vintage list & my football, hockey & baskletball lsits aren't

I tried deleting all cookies & files & even re-starting the computer but no
luck. Tried searching AOL for a solution & also ggogled it, but again, no luck.

Has anyone ever encountered this problem? Any suggestions?

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:10:06 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: brockhattox@cs.com
Subject: Thanks to Don

Thanks to Don Rice for 4 1965 Topps transfers.  It is great to get these, but
I still have a long way to go on this set.
Thanks, Don.
Take care,

=================

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:39:59 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "kevin71058" 
Subject: Today's Baseball Quiz

Which one of the following Philadelphia Phillies pitchers never won
the CY Young Award?

A.Steve Bedrosian
B.John Denny
C.Jim Bunning
D.Steve Carlton

Scroll Down for the Answer

Answer - C (Jim Bunning)

=================

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:35:16 -0800 (PST)
To: Tigers List ,
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Another good read.....

I seem to have re-discovered the reading bug in recent months. Since Xmas, I've picked up and finished Denny McLain's recent autobiography, and a biography of James Webb ("The Man Who Ran The Moon") who was the head of NASA from its inception through to 1968.

Keeping within the same era featured in those two volumes, I've just this morning received "A Well Paid Slave" - the story of Curt Flood's fight for free agency. On the bus to work, and during morning coffee break and lunch, I've managed to knock off the first 3 chapters and it's already shaping up to be an extremely interesting read.

I find the whole issue of free agency in sports fascinating, especially because it is still a relatively new concept in the world of professional soccer here in Europe. The player's unions, clubs and the ruling organisations have not yet appreciated the mutually beneficial idea of a "Basic Agreement", and as a result the market for players in Europe is completely chaotic. Believe it or not, players are ALLOWED to sign for other clubs up to 6 months prior to the end of their current contract. Rather than advise a player to see out his contract then let the market decide his worth, agents actively encourage the clients to sign these so-called "pre-contract" deals. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Every season, we see guys playing against a team that they've already been contracted to play for the very next year. Teams also continue to pay vast transfer fees for players still under contract (for some reason unbeknownst to me, player trades don't really
exist). Literally millions of $$$. Most clubs don't seem to have the savvy to offer that money directly to a free agent player in the form of better contract terms. Instead, they pay a huge "transfer fee" for a contracted player, and basically tear up and re-negotiate that players contract. The concept of honoring a signed contract, or "contract following player" simply doesn't exist. There is also no method of allowing clubs to protect their investment in young players. Highly successful teams buy up young talent from less financially secure provincial clubs and promptly dump them into their reserve teams.

The legal picture is a bit more complex over here, as we are dealing with employment laws from a variety of countries, not to mention European Union legislation. The "pyramid" league systems operated by most European countries also means that any agreement would cover not just 30 clubs as in major league baseball, but literally hundreds of clubs all over the continent (there are 42 clubs in Scotland's main league alone).

I'm looking forward to reading in depth the battles that Curt Flood faced in order to try to change the system back in the early 1970s. It'll give me some good ammunition next time I talk about free agency over a beer with my friends (which tends to happen just about every time a big transfer occurs)!

ps I've already got my NEXT book lined up. It's back to NASA again for the autobiography of former flight director Gene Kranz.

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

=================

To: "OBC Ramblings" 
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:51:20 -0500
From: "Jim Beauchemin" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Another good read.....

I still think Charlie Finley had the right idea.  Let 'em all be free agents,
every year!  Marvin Miller was scared to death that somebody would thinkof
that, Charlie did.....but his fellow owners wouldn't listen.   Serves 'em

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Codere
To: Tigers List ; OBC Ramblings
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:35 AM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Another good read.....

I seem to have re-discovered the reading bug in recent months. Since Xmas,
I've picked up and finished Denny McLain's recent autobiography, and a biography
of James Webb ("The Man Who Ran The Moon") who was the head of NASAfrom
its inception through to 1968.

Keeping within the same era featured in those two volumes, I've just thismorning
received "A Well Paid Slave" - the story of Curt Flood's fight forfree
agency. On the bus to work, and during morning coffee break and lunch,
I've managed to knock off the first 3 chapters and it's already shaping up
to be an extremely interesting read.

I find the whole issue of free agency in sports fascinating, especially because
it is still a relatively new concept in the world of professional soccer
here in Europe. The player's unions, clubs and the ruling organisations
have not yet appreciated the mutually beneficial idea of a "Basic Agreement",
and as a result the market for players in Europe is completely chaotic.
Believe it or not, players are ALLOWED to sign for other clubs up to 6 months
prior to the end of their current contract. Rather than advise a player
to see out his contract then let the market decide his worth, agents actively
encourage the clients to sign these so-called "pre-contract" deals. Why?
Your guess is as good as mine. Every season, we see guys playing againsta
team that they've already been contracted to play for the very next year.
Teams also continue to pay vast transfer fees for players still under contract
(for some reason unbeknownst to me, player trades don't really exist).
Literally millions of $$$. Most clubs don't seem to have the savvy to offer
that money directly to a free agent player in the form of better contract
terms. Instead, they pay a huge "transfer fee" for a contracted player, and
basically tear up and re-negotiate that players contract. The concept ofhonoring
a signed contract, or "contract following player" simply doesn't exist.
There is also no method of allowing clubs to protect their investment
in young players. Highly successful teams buy up young talent from less financially
secure provincial clubs and promptly dump them into their reserve

The legal picture is a bit more complex over here, as we are dealing withemployment
laws from a variety of countries, not to mention European Unionlegislation.
The "pyramid" league systems operated by most European countries
also means that any agreement would cover not just 30 clubs as in majorleague
baseball, but literally hundreds of clubs all over the continent (there
are 42 clubs in Scotland's main league alone).

I'm looking forward to reading in depth the battles that Curt Flood facedin
order to try to change the system back in the early 1970s. It'll give me
some good ammunition next time I talk about free agency over a beer with my
friends (which tends to happen just about every time a big transfer occurs)!

ps I've already got my NEXT book lined up. It's back to NASA again for the
autobiography of former flight director Gene Kranz.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

=================

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:57:37 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Another good read.....

For those of you interested, a friend of mine does a weekly sports talk
program on the web. He did an interview with Denny McLain and its archived on  the
site. You might want to check it out. McLain shoots from the lip, gotta like
the guy. And sign up and come on in for a listen if you have the time.
Schedule  should be posted there also.

_http://web.mac.com/rosenmans11/site_3/SPORTSTALKNY.html_
(http://web.mac.com/rosenmans11/site_3/SPORTSTALKNY.html)

In a message dated 1/21/2008 11:35:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
glenncodere@yahoo.com writes:

I seem to have re-discovered the reading bug in recent months. Since  Xmas,
I've picked up and finished Denny McLain's recent autobiography, and a
biography of James Webb ("The Man Who Ran The Moon") who was the head of NASA  from
its inception through to 1968.

Keeping within the same era featured in those two volumes, I've just this
morning received "A Well Paid Slave" - the story of Curt Flood's fight for  free
agency. On the bus to work, and during morning coffee break and lunch,  I've
managed to knock off the first 3 chapters and it's already  shaping up to be
an extremely interesting read.

I find the whole issue of free agency in sports fascinating, especially
because it is still a relatively new concept in the world of professional  soccer
here in Europe. The player's unions, clubs and the ruling organisations  have
not yet appreciated the mutually beneficial idea of a "Basic Agreement",  and
as a result the market for players in Europe is completely chaotic.  Believe
it or not, players are ALLOWED to sign for other clubs up to 6 months  prior to
the end of their current contract. Rather than advise a player to see  out
his contract then let the market decide his worth, agents actively  encourage
the clients to sign these so-called "pre-contract" deals. Why? Your  guess is as
good as mine. Every season, we see guys playing against a team  that they've
already been contracted to play for the very next  year. Teams also continue
to pay vast transfer fees for players still  under contract (for some reason
unbeknownst to me, player trades don't really  exist). Literally millions of
$$$. Most clubs don't seem to have the savvy to  offer that money directly to a
free agent player in the form of  better contract terms. Instead, they pay a
huge "transfer fee" for a  contracted player, and basically tear up and
re-negotiate that players  contract. The concept of honoring a signed contract, or
"contract following  player" simply doesn't exist. There is also no method of
allowing clubs to  protect their investment in young players. Highly successful
teams buy up  young talent from less financially secure provincial clubs and
promptly dump  them into their reserve teams.

The legal picture is a bit more complex over here, as we are dealing with
employment laws from a variety of countries, not to mention European Union
legislation. The "pyramid" league systems operated by most European countries
also means that any agreement would cover not just 30 clubs as in major league
baseball, but literally hundreds of clubs all over the continent (there are 42
clubs in Scotland's main league alone).

I'm looking forward to reading in depth the battles that Curt Flood faced  in
order to try to change the system back in the early 1970s. It'll give me
some good ammunition next time I talk about free agency over a beer with my
friends (which tends to happen just about every time a big transfer  occurs)!

ps I've already got my NEXT book lined up. It's back to NASA again for  the
autobiography of former flight director Gene Kranz.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? _Find  them fast with Yahoo! Search._
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/cat

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:21:47 -0800 (PST)
To: glenncodere@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Geno Wagner 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Another good read.....

Glenn --

If you want another good space read, try Two Sides of
the Moon.  It was written by a cosmonaut and tells the
Soviet side of the space race story.  It's extremely
interesting to see how they perceived us, since it's
usually the other way around.  I gave my copy to my
dad, otherwise I would send it along...

Take Care,

--- Glenn Codere  wrote:

> Guys,
> I seem to have re-discovered the reading bug in
> recent months. Since Xmas, I've picked up and
> finished Denny McLain's recent autobiography, and a
> biography of James Webb ("The Man Who Ran The Moon")
> who was the head of NASA from its inception through
> to 1968.
> Keeping within the same era featured in those two
> volumes, I've just this morning received "A Well
> Paid Slave" - the story of Curt Flood's fight for
> free agency. On the bus to work, and during morning
> coffee break and lunch, I've managed to knock off
> the first 3 chapters and it's already shaping up to
> be an extremely interesting read.
> I find the whole issue of free agency in sports
> fascinating, especially because it is still a
> relatively new concept in the world of professional
> soccer here in Europe. The player's unions, clubs
> and the ruling organisations have not yet
> appreciated the mutually beneficial idea of a "Basic
> Agreement", and as a result the market for players
> in Europe is completely chaotic. Believe it or not,
> players are ALLOWED to sign for other clubs up to 6
> months prior to the end of their current contract.
> Rather than advise a player to see out his contract
> then let the market decide his worth, agents
> actively encourage the clients to sign these
> so-called "pre-contract" deals. Why? Your guess is
> as good as mine. Every season, we see guys playing
> against a team that they've already been contracted
> to play for the very next year. Teams also continue
> to pay vast transfer fees for players still under
> contract (for some reason unbeknownst to me, player
> trades don't really
>  exist). Literally millions of $$$. Most clubs don't
> seem to have the savvy to offer that money directly
> to a free agent player in the form of better
> contract terms. Instead, they pay a huge "transfer
> fee" for a contracted player, and basically tear up
> and re-negotiate that players contract. The concept
> of honoring a signed contract, or "contract
> following player" simply doesn't exist. There is
> also no method of allowing clubs to protect their
> investment in young players. Highly successful teams
> buy up young talent from less financially secure
> provincial clubs and promptly dump them into their
> reserve teams.
> The legal picture is a bit more complex over here,
> as we are dealing with employment laws from a
> variety of countries, not to mention European Union
> legislation. The "pyramid" league systems operated
> by most European countries also means that any
> agreement would cover not just 30 clubs as in major
> league baseball, but literally hundreds of clubs all
> over the continent (there are 42 clubs in Scotland's
> main league alone).
> I'm looking forward to reading in depth the battles
> that Curt Flood faced in order to try to change the
> system back in the early 1970s. It'll give me some
> good ammunition next time I talk about free agency
> over a beer with my friends (which tends to happen
> just about every time a big transfer occurs)!
> Glenn
> ps I've already got my NEXT book lined up. It's back
> to NASA again for the autobiography of former flight
> director Gene Kranz.
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

=================

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:45:53 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "mikesportsfan" 
Subject: New Year has been kind to the collection

When the year began, I figured if I got over 300 vintage hits this
year, it would be a good year, unless I started some new sets.  I think
I am already at 77 hits, after yesterday's show.  In addition to the
hits from Ron & Mark, I got my first 1975 Twinkies, with a Ryan; 1969-
70 Topps Basketball Ruler #17 Frazier, leaving me needing Lucas to
complete the set; R311 Terry (I now have 7); 1971 Milk Duds Clemente &
Mays to cut that to 5; 1963 Bazooka ATG 2 hits including Cobb; 1962
Post FB #28 Shofner to match Peter Mead in only needing Baker to
complete the set; 1966-67 Topps Hockey USA Test #10; 1933-4 Hamilton
Gum HCKY giving me 6 of the 21 skip numbered cards; 1933-4 Ice Kings 3
hits getting me to within 1 of the /2 way mark; 1936-37 OPC HCKY series
D including Shore & Broda, 2 of the biggest hits in hockey, getting me
to 75% of the set, needing 9!
So with Mark's hits to the 1963 GAD Fun card set, I was able to get 2
sets to within 1; 2 sets moved to the 5 and under and another set
joined the 10 and under.  What a day for the collection!
Mike Rich

=================

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:27:20 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Tom Massimo" 
Subject: Any heroes out there 1968 set?

It has been a great couple of days.

Yesterday, I won 1969 Topps Mickey Mantle on EBAY to complete the set
and then my Giants won in a great game.  It is hard to believe that
they are going to the Super Bowl.

Then today I won a 1968 Topps cards of Hank Aaron and Mickey Mantle on
EBAY to bring my 1968 Topps set down to one card.

So are there any heroes out there who have an extra 1968 #530 (Bird
Belters with Frank and Brooks Robinson) to spare?  Any help would be
greatly appreciated.

=================

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:06:40 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: 1965 lot

I've just taken delivery of a very nice ebay lot of 80 1965s. I've been able to knock off 8 cards from my list (Tony C, Kaline, McLain, Stargell, Freehan, EHoward, Tigers & Angels Rookies), which leaves me with a LOT of dupes to distribute.

So, if you're looking for '65s, keep an eye on your mailbox in about a week's time. I'll try to spread 'em around as much as I can!

I think I might start working on the '65 list with just a bit more urgency. I've only got 64 cards to go, and there's only a few toughies among them.

Glasgow, Scotland

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
=================

To: 
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:44:24 -0500
From: "Chuck Paris" 
Subject: Re: Who collects 62T stamps

Stamps on the way to Mark, Mike, Don, Marshall, Rick and Gersh.  I have a few
left....did I miss any one?

----- Original Message -----
From: talbot1@comcast.net
To: Chuck Paris
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Ya Man!!!

There  on my list - here it is:

1962 Topps Stamps

Runnels, Landis, Perry, Phillips, Wood, Lumpe, Posada, Ramos, Edwards, F.Robinson,
Aspromonte, Jones, Shantz, Smith, Drysdale, Spencer, Hook, Landrith,
Miller, Walls, Zimmer.

Any and all help will be appreciated - I also have a fon of dupes.  LMK what
you need - BE WELL!!!

REGARDS -------------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Chuck Paris" 

Who collects 1962 Topps stamps?

----- Original Message -----
From: LYONS RONI
To: Tom Massimo ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Ultimately there is only one thing that matters and that is that the system
continues and thrives. We all know that the world is always changingand
this group will be no different you have to to survive. If you get stuck
in tunnel vision you get left behind . I am one of the new guys but there
will be a day that I will be the most senior guy and I don't even have a pre-war
set I'm working on what do you think the new member in 20 years from
now will be collecting. I think anything that get the ball rolling again is
a good idea but like most ideas they are not perfect at the start this will
probably evolve into something that is workable for everyone. If this anyway
offends anyone I'll say I'm sorry now thanks Rick

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: tdmassimo@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 20:38:43 +0000
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Who collects what

Although 1974 was the first year that I collected cards (as a little
year old), I agree with Brock. There is something different about
cards issued in a serious of sets which makes collecting them more

That being said, I also think there is a big difference between cards
issued from 1974 to 1980 from cards issued post 1980. The 1981
introductions of Fleer and Donruss in addition to big Topps traded sets
made collecting more difficult. Collecting was further complicated by
the insert (making an All-Star team gave a player at least 4 cards just
from Topps in the 80's), Chrome, Tiffany, retro sets, and more card
companies entering the fray.

Although it raised Anti-Trust issues, I preferred it when Topps wasthe
king with a few regional and food issues issuing sets.

=================

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:17:20 -0500
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Sean McGowan 
Subject: OBC Super Bowl Pool VIII

Dear Gamblers!
I'm taking names (but not kicking ass) for this year's OBC Super Bowl(tm)
In case you don't know how it works, check out
http://home.comcast.net/~seankatie/pool-07.htm
for last year's results, and you can even link to all the previous pools to see
who has won over the years.
The idea is simple... the "losers" send cards to the "winners".  This is
for fun, so if you are stuck, you can send to "substitute winners" which could
be other "losers" or winners from previous years, or me! :)  The point is the
same as everything else we do here... have fun, send cards.  I only keep
track of numbers just to see how good we are as a group at sending cards.
I do not keep track of who sends, or doesn't send.  This is for fun.
So, send me your name and as soon as I get a bunch of participants, I'll
put up the new grid.    I will draw numbers on Wednesday or Thursday evening
of next week.
Go Pats! :)

=================

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:24:57 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: brockhattox@cs.com
Subject: 1965 Topps Transfers

After following this eBay auction:   360014115664   , I may have made a
mistake trying to go after this set seriously....

=================

Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 06:13:21 -0500
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Originaleek@webtv.net
Subject: FOOTogether

As was previously reported by the other FOOT members present, 5 of us
attended the Redford card show on Sunday. My attendance was a last
minute late decision so I was the last one to arrive. As per the FOOT
rules of etiquette, my first duty was to locate and greet other members
in attendance. Knowing I would find at least one FOOT there, I headed
directly over to FOOT favorite dealer Mike Sandles table. Sure enough I
found Mike "Motor mouth" Rich rummaging through the nickel and dime
boxes. So engrossed was he that I stood right next to him for a minute
before he even noticed me. When he did finally come up for air, I
inquired as to other FOOTs in attendance and he informed me that Mark
"Snake" Talbot, Ron "Traveling Man" Perry, and Mike "Mr Oz" Mroz were
some where in the building.

I had noticed upon my arrival that Mark's favorite dealer Harold had set
up at the show, and sure enough, I found Mark there digging for
treasure. After greetings and some typical OBC banter, I struck out to
find Ron and Mike Mroz. I eventually located Ron, got an update on his
world travels and with a promise to reconnect later, I endeavored to
persue the final OBCer in attendance. Although his attendance was
documented by Talbot and Rich, I never did find the mysterious Mr. Oz.
As a matter of fact I never even found the yellow brick road. I did find
a Lion or two, but I was more interested in Tigers. I was determined to
find a few of the vintage variety so I headed over to a table that
always has memorabilia featuring Detroit teams. Sure enough, I found
three of the five 49 Bowman Tigers I needed, in very good condition at a
reasonable price. I tucked my bounty into my official card show satchel
and headed back to Mike Sandles table.

I spent the rest of time there, save for a quick tour of tables in
search for some hits to my UV wantlists, to no avail, I might add. As
per usual I was able to find a few cards I needed, or thought I needed
at Sandles table before time ran out. Sometime along the way, Ron bid
his farewell and headed back to visit his home in the Bay City area
before his next trip to Europe, Asia or the Easter Islands? Alas all
good things must come to an end and The Motor City Motor Mouth and I
helped Mike break down his Table and load up his vehicle in the cold and
windy Michigan weather. Meanwhile Mark held out until the last dog was
on the scaffold and the noose was swinging, as he continued to rummage
through boxes of cards until we put them on a dolly and carted them and
him away.

As is customary, Mike, Mark and I finished up our FOOTogether with a
visit to Eastside Mario's for Marks mussels, chicken strips and Buffalo
Wings. We stuck around for typical traders talk through the first half
of the Pats vs Bolts game before salutations and my trip back to Grand
Blanc. Another great day with some of my favorite people had come to an
end as does this ramble for those few who stayed for the duration.

"We keep what we give away"

=================

To: 
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:52:48 -0600
From: "Shawn Adkins" 
Subject: FW: Helmar article

Okay, this is UV related but it's also Helmar related which generally has a
fair amount of interest with the group.  This was published in the current
Beckett Elite Magazine (not sure exactly what that is as I've never seen
one) and I thought there would be some interest in giving it a look.
Charles just sent me a scanned copy of it so I figured I'd forward it along.

=================

To: 
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:44:46 -0700
From: "Marshall West" 
Subject: Helmar

Speaking of Helmar, I have one card in my set with a scratched-off backside:
JJ MCGRAW-New York.  Anyone have an unscratched MCGRAW?  You will be rewarded
with several other Helmars.  I still have a big box of Series One dups.
 Please send your Helmar wants to me and I'll fill what I can.

Nice Helmar article Shawn- thanks!

Marshall West
=================

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:23:24 -0500
To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" 
From: "Steve Rittenberg" 
Subject: Movin to Alabammy

I'm movin to Alabammy sometime around the end of March.   Oh the
anxiety of packing all this stuff away.   Do you know how much space
is taken up by a Topps run from 1952 to the present?  Add in a run of
football, basketball and hockey sets and you've scratched the surface.
I expect I will store away all the low value stuff (like the run of
Donruss sets) and take the higher value sets and all the uncompleted
stuff.   Even my Red Sox collection (excuse the UV mention) takes up
half of a 6 foot book case.   I clearly am I hoarder.....     Now its
time to pay the price.    Any local guys who want to help organize,
pack, store any of this, come by whenever you want.

On the bright side, the lines at the Post Office should be much
shorter in Huntsville Alabama.

Steve R

=================

To: 
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:11:28 -0500
From: Mac Wubben 
Subject: 55 bowman hero needed

With tonight's ebay victory, i am down to one 55 bowman needed: #296 B.Virdon.
 Any last card heroes out there?

Climb to the top of the charts!Play the word scramble challenge with star
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icidstarshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
=================

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:23:50 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC Ramblings 
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: The world.......small place, huh?

Ever have one of those moments when you feel that the world truly is getting smaller?

This morning,  I received an envelope containing a beautiful 1963 York Bruce MacGregor - a terrific addition to my Red Wings collection...........from a dealer in Finland!

When I first "re-discovered" card collecting after a trip to the States in 1990, I thought how difficult it was going to be to build any kind of meaningful collection. And now here I am 17 years later (Great Caesar's Ghost!!!! Has it been that long??) sending and receiving cards transatlantically, and picking up vintage stuff from strange, tundra strewn lands (apart from Canada).

The internet has really changed the way that we all live in this world, hasn't it?

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

To: 
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:25:04 -0500
From: Bob Reed 
Subject: T206 Wagner

I believe it was Josh who said this card was trimmed many years ago.  Lookslike
he was right!

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/iteam/2007/06/photos-prove-wagner-card-was-t.html

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?sourcetext_hotmail_join
=================

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:27:58 -0500
To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" 
From: "Steve Rittenberg" 
Subject: All expense paid trip to Alabama available

This offer is available to anyone in the North America.  Sorry Glenn.
Want a free trip to Alabama?   Come to DC and drive down with me in a
van in February or March and help me move my card collection.  I'll
pass gas, tolls, food, and lodging.  If you are flying in, I might be
able to pay at least some of that cost too.  Glenn - if you can get to
New York, I'll pay the rest of the way.   Its 700 miles from my place
to Huntsville Alabama.  For anyone but Ken, that's too far to drive
alone.  When we get to Alabama, we'll unload the cards either into
storage or perhaps someone's house (TBD).

Does anyone have the time and enjoy driving enough for a trip like
this?  Please let me know.  I can probably chip in about $300 for
airfare from your home to Washington and back.  All the costs will be
part of the "relocation allowance" I can tap into so don't be shy.

=================

To: ,
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:36:54 -0500
From: "chuckparis" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] All expense paid trip to Alabama available

"pass gas" ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Rittenberg
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:27 AM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] All expense paid trip to Alabama available

This offer is available to anyone in the North America. Sorry Glenn.
Want a free trip to Alabama? Come to DC and drive down with me in a
van in February or March and help me move my card collection. I'll
pass gas, tolls, food, and lodging. If you are flying in, I might be
able to pay at least some of that cost too. Glenn - if you can get to
New York, I'll pay the rest of the way. Its 700 miles from my place
to Huntsville Alabama. For anyone but Ken, that's too far to drive
alone. When we get to Alabama, we'll unload the cards either into
storage or perhaps someone's house (TBD).

Does anyone have the time and enjoy driving enough for a trip like
this? Please let me know. I can probably chip in about $300 for
airfare from your home to Washington and back. All the costs will be
part of the "relocation allowance" I can tap into so don't be shy.

=================

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:21:01 EST
To: boreed@hotmail.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Wite3@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T206 Wagner

Old news...I nearly got booted out of the Anaheim National about 10 years
ago when I held this Wagner on top of another t206 and you can clearly see the
border of the card behind. It was cut from a sheet or printers scrap. I have
been saying it was trimmed for years and years.

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025

=================

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:25:00 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Bill Ashton" 
Subject: 1968 Topps Game Cards

I have two of these in EX condition.  You can crease them when you get
them.  Free to a good home;

# 7- Frank Robinson

# 8- Willie Mays

Bill Ashton

=================

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:48:17 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Bill Ashton" 
Subject: 1968 Topps Game cards

These have been claimed.  I'll post some again next time I go the the
stamp shop.

=================

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 01:49:10 -0500
To: Wite3@aol.com
From: John Collins 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T206 Wagner

Just goes to show though, if PSA can admittedly screw up on something
like oh, the single largest ticket item in the entire history of the
hobby (despite the fact it was intentional) how should any of us
also-ran collectors trust them to grade any of our also-ran cards with

I've always said that grading can be defined to within reasonable
standards, but in the end is something very hard to agree precisely on.
Big snafu for PSA...

Wite3@aol.com wrote:
> Old news...I nearly got booted out of the Anaheim National about 10
> years ago when I held this Wagner on top of another t206 and you can
> clearly see the border of the card behind. It was cut from a sheet or
> printers scrap. I have been saying it was trimmed for years and years.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
> Music.
> 

John Collins

=================

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:04:30 -0500
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Originaleek@webtv.net
Subject: FOOT notes....

As recently reported there was a gathering of FOOTs at a local card show
on Sunday. Given the fact that there were 5 of us in attendance, we had
a quorum and were therefore able to conduct official business. What
follows is my recall of the events and activities during our meeting. It
should be noted that some of the following content is actually true,
more is simply exaggeration for nonsense sake, and most is down right
lies. After all, my grandma was a Kelly and an FBI. Given that Irish
heritage I am reluctant to let the truth get in front of a good story.

So.... First on the agenda was the FOOT artifact donated by the generous
OBCer, Spike Glidden. After close examination it was determined that
said artifact was a photo. Closer inspection revealed that it was a
photo of the players that made up the 1934 Detroit Tigers Outfield. Once
the identification phase was completed we moved on to the placement
phase. This was an important phase as it would determine where this
valuable artifact would reside. Several suggestions were offered
regarding placement. One FOOT member was so engrossed in card hunting
that he made a suggestion for placement that is unprintable here and in
fact was anatomically impossible. Ron Perry suggested that we hold a
contest and place the artifact with the FOOT member who could name the
three Tigers in the photo. It was a great suggestion until Mr.Oz pointed
out that none of us in attendance would be eligible because we had
already seen the photo with the names printed on it. Since the winner
would need to be someone who had not seen the photo, we decided to Chuck
it to Paris who will receive it sometime next week. In appreciation for
his donation of the photo, we unanimously voted to waive the usual
application process and bestow TOE membership upon Spike immediately
upon his request.

Speaking of TOE, the only other agenda item was the anticipated flood of
requests for TOE membership as Spring Training nears. With the
acquisitions the Tigers made over the off season it is expected that
folks around the country will be jumping on the Tigers bandwagon. Well
at least they will be trying to jump on. The bandwagon is already full
with true Tiger fans so the best the out of State folks can hope for is
to get toed along behind....and what a ride we expect it to be! As a
demonstration of our good will to all the wanna be Tiger fans out there,
we have decided to extend the TOE application period. Instead of the cut
off date being the beginning of Spring Training as in years past, we
will accept applications up to Opening Day. So for OBCers who wish
Tigers Outstate Enthusiast membership, please contact any FOOT member
for the criteria and application process.

Enjoy your weekend!

"We keep what we give away"

=================

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:56:51 GMT
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Bob Saxton" 
Subject: Super Saturday

Huge thanks to Lynn Miller this morning for a nice stack of hits to the 54 Bowman
and 60 Topps lists!  Thanks, Lynn, much appreciated!
Click to find great rates on home insurance, save big, shop here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m3GAvOngT183y88dqD4JVUfVOMFAz7VWebDs4rqTBeR5tgg/

=================

To: vct@lists.vintagecardtraders.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:18:39 -0500
From: Jeff Delott 
Subject: Anyone want to trade Clemente for Mantle?

I have an off grade 1960 Topps Rival All Stars #160, which I am looking to trade for a 1960 Clemente #326.? Any takers?

?Jeffrey Delott

More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

=================

To: 
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:29:09 -0500
From: "Mark Holland" 
Subject: need input

I want to take my collection back to the 50's.  My oldest complete set so far
is the 1960 set & my oldest work in progress set is the 62.  So how did those
of you that "built backwards" acquire your cards?  The yard sale market
has dried up on that kind of stuff.  Do you buy starter lots on eBay?  What
year would be the easiest 50s set to start?  It looks like 58 although my
favorite would be the '57.

Looking for feedback on how to get started.

Mark Holland
Vintage Wantlist: http://www.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep16&groupid169083&ck/
=================

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:14:50 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Bill Ashton" 
Subject: Who's Who in Major League Baseball, 1934

I have this old book falling apart with Babe Ruth's and Lou Gehrig's
pages missing.  So I'm pulling it apart and there are some sections I
don't need that one of you might like;

Major League Umpires- all shown with photo & short bio

Major League Baseball Writers- ditto

Baseball Radio Broadcasters- ditto

Professional Baseball Official Playing Rules

Let me know if you're interested.

Bill Ashton

=================

To: wholla_m@bellsouth.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:22:49 -0500
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] need input

?? I started my 50s collecting at shows. Got some deals on? lower grade commons. The easiest 50s id say through experience is 59 topps, and even the 55 bowman. The 55 bowman was my 3rd set completed in obc, after 76 topps and 69 topps.?Even the 54 bowman isnt that terrible. Im down to like 12 cards, the only real tough cards in the set are the Williams and Mantle, But the Mantle can be had for a decent price.?57 has the high priced mid series which can be a pain. The 58 has the yellow variations (not sure if your a variation guy).? You can get lots on ebay, but of late on lots ive gotten better deals at shows. Individual cards ive noticed can be better priced on ebay.
? I hope this helps
Rob Gioia

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Holland 
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 8:29 am
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] need input

I want to take my collection back to the 50's.? My oldest complete set so far is the 1960 set & my oldest work in progress set is the 62.? So how did those of you that "built backwards" acquire your cards?? The yard sale market has dried up on that kind of stuff.? Do you buy starter lots on eBay?? What year would be the easiest 50s set to start?? It looks like 58 although my favorite would be the '57.?

Looking for feedback on how to get started.?

Mark Holland
Vintage Wantlist: http://www.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=169083&ck=/

More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

=================

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:10:51 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Geno Wagner 
Subject: Gulf Coast I

OBCers --

I had the pleasure of attending the Inaugural OBC Gulf
Coast Get Together at Brock's house yesterday, and
what a great time we had!  After being shown around
the Hattox Estate, I met Bama finally after all these
years, and proceeded to learn everything there is to
know about vintage bats.  He had an amazing collection
of bats dating back to about 1850 I believe.  Father
Pat showed up with some King Cake (?) - an incredible
delicacy featuring a hidden baby that Chris
Stufflestreet managed to bite into, thus assuring
himself of hosting the next gathering!  Brock promised
a surprise visitor, and sure enough the doorbell rings
while we are having some wonderful stew and in walks
Lynn Miller!  Lynn had driven 39 straight hours to get
there on time, showing meritorious service, second to
none in OBC punctuality and distance records!

I ended up spending the night and shared a room with
Bama, which warrents a quick story.  At 5:00, his
alarm goes off, but it is like no other alarm I have
ever heard.  At first I thought it was Curtis LeMay
calling all the B-52s to the alert pad, but nope, it
was just his clock.  It went on for a good minute and
finally stopped, but there was no movement from that
side of the room.  I couldn't believe somebody could
actually have slept through that, so I assumed he hit
the snooze or something.  About five minutes later,
the klaxon went off again, alerting the volunteer fire
department down the street, but not Bama.  I was
utterly amazed that he didn't budge!  I figured I
better wake him up, when I see a bit of rustling from
his sheets.  He pulls himself out of bed, walks over
to me, taps me on the shoulder and says, "I think your
phone is ringing."  Priceless...

I would like to extend my deepest gratitude to Brock
for hosting the night - it was a lot of fun!  I love
your house and the baseball mecca inside of it.  Also,
thanks for the T205 that you graciously added to my
variation quest!  Bama Van Winkle also added a card to
my type list with a 1941 Goudey of Carl Hubbell.  I
had a great time talking to the guys and can't wait to
do it again!!

Take Care,

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

=================

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:56:34 -0500
From: "obcjohn@knology.net" 
Subject: Gulf Coast I

Guys and Gal,

What a treat this past Saturday was!!  Five OBCers descended upon Brock Hattox's
estate in Gulf Shores for the usual OBC session of story telling, adult
beverages, good food and, of course. old cardboard.  Our gracious host has
one beautiful place and after seeing, was struck by the email directionshe
sent, describing the place ..."turn into the Estates, go about a mile, and
look for the house with the tin roof with a little rust".  Folks, the roof
may be tin but there are no swings on the front porch or old washing machines.

I had met Brock at some of the old Georgia mafia meetings in Madison some years
back but got to meet 4 new faces.  They included Chris Stufflestreet, his
lovely wife and daughter, Geno Wagner, Father Pat, and, just as we weredigging
into some of Brock's wife's delicious beef stew, who should appearbut
Lynn Miller.  He had just driven 39 hours from Las Vegas and was beat,but
we gave him a warm welcome and a bowl of stew.

Thanks go out to Brock for a t205, a 60 nose bleeder, and 53 Topps.  Lynn Miller
brought a huge dupes box from which I withdrew a stack of 55 Bowmansand
some 62 and 63 Topps.  The best part, of course, was seeing old friends,
even though most of us were meeting for the first time.

Brock's memorabilia room is truly amazing, with lots of autographed items, including
a Hank jersey autographed by all the postwar 500 home run club.  He
has a second room upstairs in his house with more autographs of tremendous
variety.  Of course the card binders were very nice as well (beautiful sets
of 33 and 34 Goudeys).

Geno showed us a video of the type of aircraft he files.  I'd hate to be the
ground forces he decided to target.

Father Pat brought a scrumptious King cake from the Big Easy.

Geno, sorry for the alarm business.  At 5:00 am I was a bit groggy.  When Iwoke
up, I thought the alarm was Father Pat's.  As it turned out when I got
downstairs, Lynn was about to leave, so I left a bit early and We grabbedsome
breakfast at Waffle House.  Nothing like a couple of old Navy guys chewing
the fat.

I got back to Mungumry just in time to shower, change clothes, and make it to
church in time for choir (Orlando di Lasso).  Father Pat had left the previous
evening to get back for early Mass.

To Brock,  thanks again for hosting and the  beautiful accomodations.  Hopefully
this will be the first of more Gulf Coast gatherings.

=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 03:00:10 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "jmoleta30341" 
Subject: Something's not right here...

Is it just me, or does the lettering look funny on the front of this card?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ty-Cobb-Bat-off-shoulder-1909-1911-T206_W0QQitemZ280194383773QQihZ018QQcategoryZ86841QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:45:22 EST
To: james_moleta@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Something's not right here...

In a message dated 1/27/2008 10:00:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
james_moleta@hotmail.com writes:

_http://cgi.ebay.com/Ty-Cobb-Bat-off-shoulder-1909-1911-T206_W0QQitemZ28019438
(http://cgi.ebay.com/Ty-Cobb-Bat-off-shoulder-1909-1911-T206_W0QQitemZ280194383773QQihZ01

The Lettering does look alittle suspicious. I  bought a couple pre war
fakes on ebay, and since then I wont buy anything pre  war or mantle unless it
is a graded card, just to guarantee its authenticity.  once i get the card i
crack it out, but just for my peace of mind. Id stay away,  if a deal looks to
good to be true, it probably isnt  a deal.
just my opinion

Rob "The FIREMAN"

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 05:23:26 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Matthew 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Something's not right here...

Personal opinion, that's a horrible fake, just tragically easy to spot and purposelessly committed to paper. It makes Spotty McFakerbean ashamed to be in the forgery business at all. It's probably made by the guy they included in the "People who faked something in 2007" Christmas card only out of pity.

----- Original Message ----
From: "DaPatriot1@aol.com" 
To: james_moleta@hotmail.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:45:22 AM
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Something's not right here...

In a message dated 1/27/2008 10:00:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
james_moleta@hotmail.com writes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ty-Cobb-Bat-off-shoulder-1909-1911-T206_W0QQitemZ280194383773QQihZ018QQcategoryZ86841QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:00:00 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: brockhattox@cs.com
Subject: Gulf Coast OBCers

It was great to get the folks together at our cabin for several hours of
camaraderie.  I confess I was not at my best as a host, hobbling around on my new
knee, but Geno and Bama pitched in to help make everyone feel comfortable.  It
was a special treat to have Lynn Miller make the drive from Las Vegas.
Father Pat and Chris Stufflestreet shared their knowledge of cards and history to
match Professor Bama's bat symposium.

I would like to thank Geno for a 1969 Topps stamps panel and a Jim Palmer on
a Milk Duds box.  Bama left me my first Sports Kings card.

Thanks to everyone for making the drive and brightening up a Saturday for a
Take care,

=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:41:59 -0800 (PST)
To: Carol Codere ,
From: Glenn Codere 
Subject: Some good news!

As some of you may be aware, I was effectively down-graded last year as a result of the NHS Pay & Conditions re-organisation programme "Agenda For Change" (AfC). Thanks to an inefficient and inherently unfair method of assessment, my job was assessed to be a Band 5, while the majority of my peers around me were assessed at Band 6. This meant not only a loss of pay, but also a considerable loss of status, neither of which were merited by either my level of responsibility or my ability and competence.

The reasons for my low grading seemed to be a combination of timing (my job was one of the earliest to be assessed and the assessors were still trying to understand the process themselves - later assessments received more favourable consideration), a lack of experience on my part in the art of writing job descriptions (I had to write my own job description, and as I have no line management responsibilities, it was something that I had no experience in doing. I didn't fully understand the correct "phrases and terminology" which would score well with the assessors), and poor advice given by the human resources people within my own department (assessments are carried out by panels of staff from outwith one's own unit. HR staff within your unit were supposed to offer advice and assistance in order to help staff present the best possible case for their new grading. The advice and assistance which I initially received proved to be inadequate and in some
instances completely incorrect).

On receiving my grading in May 2007 - which I'm sure you can imagine left me EXTREMELY angry and frustrated - I immediately set the appeal process in motion with the full support of my boss and colleagues. After many, many months of waiting, I was unofficially informed today that my appeal has been successful.  Strangely, I'm more relieved  than happy at the moment. I feel that the right decision has finally been made, but I'm still exceptionally angry at the organisation for forcing me to jump through a series of hoops in order to put things right. I feel that after 25 years of service, a string of exceptional annual assessment ratings, and a proven ability to continually accept and cope competently with an ever increasing level of responsibility (unlike some of my colleagues who DID receive the higher grading) I deserved a much better outcome in the first place. While I'm sure that once my colleagues find out about my success (its still not public
knowledge) they'll be quick to offer their congratulations, to a certain extent it's not necessary as I feel that I'm getting no more than I should have had almost a year ago.

The award of a Band 6 means an increase in salary, backdated to October 2004 (which in turn means a considerable lump sum of back pay), but more importantly in many ways it returns to me my lost level of status in relation to my peers, something which meant more to me than I ever imagined it would.

Anyway, once the back money comes through it'll be my pleasure to buy you a drink when I see you. Hopefully, it'll also help me to pay off a whack of my credit card, buy a big screen TV for the house, and get me over to the States in July for the 2008 Sports Collectors Convention in Chicago (prior to heading down to Mexico City for the 2008 World AIDS Conference)!!

And to those of you who've listened to my woes, moans, and curses over this issue (and there have been PLENTY of those) throughout the recent months and who have offered both your support and understanding, thanks so much. It really is appreciated!

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:02:35 -0500
To: glenncodere@yahoo.com (Glenn Codere)
From: Originaleek@webtv.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Some good news!

Good news indeed, congrats! Of course this whole mess could have been
avoided had the powers to be consulted OBC in the first place. We've
always known you were a band 6 at the very least! Maybe a band 8 or 9.

Looking forward to seeing you in Chicago!

"We keep what we give away"

=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:06:04 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: brockhattox@cs.com
Subject: Fwd: Subj: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item # 300193932098, 60X ZOOM PO...
From: "Cortney" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Subj: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item # 300193932098, 60X ZOOM POCKET MIC
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:51:21 -0500

That is what I aways charge as my shipping and handling fee,  If you have aproblem
with it, we can mutually agree to void the transaction.  It is my fault
for not putting the shipping cost on the auction.  I always do however
I may have relisted an auction that didn't have the price by accident.

From: Brockhattox@cs.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:49 PM
To: cortneyandfaith@hotmail.com
Subject: Subj: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item # 300193932098, 60X ZOOM
POCKET MIC

Your charge of $7.99 is not a fair price for shipping a small light item.  Please
reconsider this price and send me a fair price for the true shippingcosts.
"ecru" on eBay

=================

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:09:46 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: brockhattox@cs.com
Subject: Fwd: Subj: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item # 300193932098, 60X ZOOM PO...
From: "Cortney" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Subj: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item # 300193932098, 60X ZOOM POC...
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:06:59 -0500

That's fine.  If you look at my completed items you would notice that I never
did that and I didn't even realize it until know.  I agree it seems sneaky
to list without shipping price.

From: Brockhattox@cs.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 7:05 PM
To: cortneyandfaith@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Subj: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item # 300193932098, 60X
ZOOM POC...

Let's void it by mutual consent.  I know I got a good price, but I am rebelling
against sellers who do not list their shipping price and then overcharge.
 Is this agreeable with you?

=================

To: ,
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:05:00 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: HEADS UP !!!  REFERENCE ???     - - -      Re: want list

I'm sure I wont be interested in working with this person, and I already responded
to him by suggesting that he go to eBay, but just as heads up warning,
I received this solicitation a few minutes ago, and I am curious if anyone
else has received the same, or has had any previous experience with said

----- Original Message -----
From: Hijomom@aol.com
To: wguthrie@axint.net
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 5:29 PM
Subject: want list

Do you only trade? I have cards that you could use but I want to sell them.

Let me know

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:33:43 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "uthminsta1" 
Subject: number of OBCers I've met: ONE.

What a great day.

A few days back I got an email from Lynn Miller saying he was coming
through Georgia visiting family... he wanted to see if we could get
together.  I was honored to be asked, and I'm glad we got a chance to
visit.  Circumstances didn't work out for Keith Summers or James
Moleta, the other two Georgia OBCers, but I hope that we can get
together soon.  Perhaps a Braves game...

I've seen some posts about the OBC Gulf Coast group meeting this past
weekend - and Lynn was there too... then he went up to meet Keith
Summers north of Atlanta!  This guy's been busy!

So as I said, today was a great day.  I got to eat lunch with a guy
who shares my appreciation of Hank Aaron, I got a BUNCH of cards, and
most importantly I got to experience a more personal side of OBC.  I
had seen pictures and read ramblings about other gatherings, and
thought this was a pretty cool group, but even still I didn't know
what to expect today.  I did my best to find something, ANYthing, to
give Lynn that would express the excitement at meeting an OBC brother.
It was funny to sit and look at a Hank Aaron puzzle and talk about
actually putting it together, even though that meant it wouldn't be
"mint" any more.  We got to talk about his kids and grandkids and OBC
cards and hats and shirts and pins and...

It's just nice to spend some time with someone who shares this weird
little hobby!  Here's a link to a picture of our meeting, taken by an
employee at the fine establishment where we met.  Can you tell where
it was?

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/photos/view/75dc?b1

So yeah, the VERY FIRST person I ever met in OBC lived in the
Philippines for 30 years, and was driving all the way from Las Vegas
to Brock's house to McDonald's (high class eats) to South Carolina!
Maybe a Starbucks gift card would have been a nice welcome gift for
you, Lynn!  Stay safe on the road, and thanks again bro.  I look
forward to meeting you again, and hopefully some of the other guys in
this strange and awesome band of brothers.

PS when I was on the way home I called my wife and she said "I don't
know why you drove to Madison for OBC, because you got THREE packages
that came right to your door today."  More about that on the thanks

=================

To: "obc rambling" 
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:26:14 -0500
From: "ant" 
Subject: 1967 leader dupes

Hello All,
I happen to pick up some & wondering who is interested:
1967 #235,236,239,240,241,242,243,244

Anthony Arbeeny
=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:12:31 -0500
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBCYearProject@yahoogroups.com
From: Originaleek@webtv.net
Subject: Postal Problem

I sent out several envelopes to OBCers yesterday of which a couple we
illegal. That is to say they were too thick and ridged, which could also
be said of the US Postal Service. At any rate I sent out two or three
envelopes via the automated self serve system before a Postal employee
informed "sir, there is a sur-charge on hand cancelled mail" I told her
that I already sent a few out and asked if Tommy Lee Jones was coming to
arrest me. Postal workers don't have much of a sense of humor. She
simply informed me that the envelopes in question would either be
returned to me or would arrive at their destination "postage due". So a
few of you YearProject participants may get two envelopes in a few days,
one with cardboard in them and one to pay the "dues". My humble
apologies to the victims of my transgression. Meet me in Chicago in July
and I will reimburse you with interest.

The more senior I become the more I yearn for the old days when all mail
was hand cancelled, stamps were 3=A2, gas was 17.9 and baseball cards
and comic books were 5=A2. Yes, I do "remember the feel of the candy
store steps" and am slightly sad for my grandchildren who will never
know such simplicity and innocence! I think I'll go watch reruns of
Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best.

"We keep what we give away"

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:30:53 EST
To: obc-announcements@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

i think the OBCAC has lost touch with what's going on.

there is probably a record amount of cards flying around these days with  the
year by year project.  to not allow something as simple as adding uv  lists
to the "who collects what" page is ridiculous.

your precious post-1980 restrictions on our web pages would be preserved,
and all would be well.  but instead, we need to make more work for  ourselves
despite a large number of members participating.

you are supposed to be representing the members -- maybe a poll would be in

In a message dated 1/29/2008 12:19:23 PM Central Standard Time,
jwi62@hotmail.com writes:

There was only one item that the OBCAC  voted in January.

Motion to add UV sets to the "Who collects  what" page - FAILED 5-2

Geordie Calvert will conduct  the bi-annual membership opt-out poll soon.
Please check your directory  info for inaccuracies.

Don't forget about the upcoming AC  elections - Fr. Pat will serve as the
election commissioner and will have  more on the elections later this week.  As
in the past, don't  forget to contact somebody before nominating them.

Remember  to bring up any thoughts, concerns, etc to the Ramblings server if
you think  the AC should consider something.

Your OBCAC is Andy Cook, Wayne  Delia, Spike Glidden, Ken Morganti, Mike
Rich, Steve Rittenberg and Mark  Talbot.

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we
give. _Learn more._
(http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: 29 Jan 2008 18:34:06 -0000
From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: New poll for OBC-Ramblings

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
OBC-Ramblings group:

Would you be in favor of allowing UV sets (post-1980) to be listed on our "Who Collects What Page"?  Please note that this would not change the restrictions of having post-1980 sets listed on your OBC linked wantlist page.

o Yes, I would be in favor of allowing UV sets on the "Who Collects What" page
o No, I want to leave things the way they are

To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/surveys?id=12711336

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:06:13 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "larrygersh" 
Subject: OBC to the left coast

Just a note to the Los Angeles contingent
of OBCers, I will be in the LA area next Monday
and Tuesday (Feb 4 & 5) for a business meeting.
I will be staying out by the Ontario Airport.
Anyone interested in getting together please
let me know. Would love to hook up with some folks.

=================

To: smartalecx@aol.com, obc-announcements@yahoogroups.com,
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:44:13 -0500
From: topgolf@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

I disagree with the poll. We have elected the OBCAC to make decisions and we should let them do so. If we are going to have a poll on every issue, there is no need for the OBCAC.

-----Original Message-----
From: smartalecx@aol.com
To: obc-announcements@yahoogroups.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:30 am
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

i think the OBCAC has?lost touch with what's going on.

there is probably a record amount of cards flying around these days with the year by year project.? to not allow something as simple as adding uv lists to the "who collects what" page is ridiculous.

your precious post-1980 restrictions on our web pages would be preserved, and all would be well.? but instead, we need to make more work for ourselves despite a large number of members participating.

you are supposed to be representing the members -- maybe a poll would be in order.

In a message dated 1/29/2008 12:19:23 PM Central Standard Time, jwi62@hotmail.com writes:

There was only one item that the OBCAC voted in January.
Motion to add?UV sets to the "Who collects what" page -?FAILED 5-2
Geordie Calvert will?conduct the bi-annual membership opt-out poll soon.? Please check your directory info?for inaccuracies.
Don't forget about the upcoming AC elections - Fr. Pat will serve as the election commissioner?and will have more on the elections later this week.? As in the past,?don't forget?to contact somebody before nominating them.
Remember to bring up any thoughts, concerns, etc to the Ramblings server if you think the AC should consider something.
Your OBCAC is Andy Cook, Wayne Delia, Spike Glidden, Ken Morganti, Mike Rich, Steve Rittenberg and Mark Talbot.?

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give. Learn more.

i think the OBCAC has?lost touch with what's going on.

there is probably a record amount of cards flying around these days with the year by year project.? to not allow something as simple as adding uv lists to the "who collects what" page is ridiculous.

your precious post-1980 restrictions on our web pages would be preserved, and all would be well.? but instead, we need to make more work for ourselves despite a large number of members participating.

you are supposed to be representing the members -- maybe a poll would be in order.

In a message dated 1/29/2008 12:19:23 PM Central Standard Time, jwi62@hotmail.com writes:

There was only one item that the OBCAC voted in January.
Motion to add?UV sets to the "Who collects what" page -?FAILED 5-2
Geordie Calvert will?conduct the bi-annual membership opt-out poll soon.? Please check your directory info?for inaccuracies.
Don't forget about the upcoming AC elections - Fr. Pat will serve as the election commissioner?and will have more on the elections later this week.? As in the past,?don't forget?to contact somebody before nominating them.
Remember to bring up any thoughts, concerns, etc to the Ramblings server if you think the AC should consider something.
Your OBCAC is Andy Cook, Wayne Delia, Spike Glidden, Ken Morganti, Mike Rich, Steve Rittenberg and Mark Talbot.?

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give. Learn more.

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:50:31 EST
To: Topgolf@aol.com, obc-announcements@yahoogroups.com,
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

thanks mike:

i certainly wouldnt assume that any poll would be binding.  i just  have the
sense that they are off on this one, and was curious what everyone else

nice to hear from you.

In a message dated 1/29/2008 1:44:38 PM Central Standard Time,
topgolf@aol.com writes:

I disagree with the poll. We have elected the OBCAC to make decisions and  we
should let them do so. If we are going to have a poll on every issue, there
is no need for the OBCAC.

-----Original Message-----
From:  smartalecx@aol.Fro
To: obc-announcements@To: obc-annoTo: obc-announcements@To: obc-annoTo:
Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:30  am
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

i think the OBCAC has lost touch with what's going on.

there is probably a record amount of cards flying around these days with  the
year by year project.  to not allow something as simple as adding uv  lists
to the "who collects what" page is ridiculous.

your precious post-1980 restrictions on our web pages would be preserved,
and all would be well.  but instead, we need to make more work for  ourselves
despite a large number of members participating.

you are supposed to be representing the members -- maybe a poll would be  in

In a message dated 1/29/2008 12:19:23 PM Central Standard Time,
jwi62@hotmail.In a messag

There was only one item that the OBCAC  voted in January.

Motion to add UV sets to the "Who  collects what" page - FAILED 5-2

Geordie Calvert  will conduct the bi-annual membership opt-out poll soon.
Please  check your directory info for inaccuracies.

Don't forget  about the upcoming AC elections - Fr. Pat will serve as the
election  commissioner and will have more on the elections later this week.   As
in the past, don't forget to contact somebody before nominating  them.

Remember to bring up any thoughts, concerns, etc to the  Ramblings server if
you think the AC should consider  something.

Your OBCAC is Andy Cook, Wayne Delia, Spike Glidden,  Ken Morganti, Mike
Rich, Steve Rittenberg and Mark  Talbot.

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we
give. _Learn more._
(http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join)

Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489)  in the new year.

More new features than ever. Check out the new _AOL Mail_
(http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003) !

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:51:33 -0800
From: "grains" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings

Personally, I will take a pass on the poll. We have an OBCAC
to make these types of decisions, and end runs serve no
purpose. I think the viable alternatives are:

1. If you don't care for the OBCAC decisions, don't vote for
them again. If you like the decisions, vote for them again.

2. Run for the OBCAC and have a voice in where these
decisions are discussed and voted upon.

My 2 cents (Canadian, which is back around par!)

----- Original Message -----
From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings
Date: 29 Jan 2008 18:34:06 -0000

>Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
>OBC-Ramblings group:
>Would you be in favor of allowing UV sets (post-1980) to be
>listed on our "Who Collects What Page"?  Please note that
>this would not change the restrictions of having post-1980
>sets listed on your OBC linked wantlist page.
>  o Yes, I would be in favor of allowing UV sets on the
>"Who Collects What" page
>  o No, I want to leave things the way they are
>To vote, please visit the following web page:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/surveys?id=12711336
>Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
>not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo!
>Groups  web site listed above.

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:58:11 -0500
To: smartalecx@aol.com
From: Originaleek@webtv.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

Poll or not, I fully support the OBCAC. Our group is "Old" Baseball
Cards.  My 2=A2.

"We keep what we give away"

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:00:32 EST
To: OriginalEEK@webtv.net
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

In a message dated 1/29/2008 1:58:24 PM Central Standard Time,
OriginalEEK@webtv.net writes:

Poll or  not, I fully support the OBCAC. Our group is "Old" Baseball
Cards.  My  2=A2.

"We keep what we give away"

to everyone who got my email.  FORGET IT !!!

sorry i wanted to know what the group as a whole thought -- my  apologies.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:01:25 EST
To: grains@dccnet.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings

this wasnt supposed to be a referendum!

In a message dated 1/29/2008 1:52:16 PM Central Standard Time,
grains@dccnet.com writes:

Personally, I will take a pass on the poll. We have an OBCAC
to make  these types of decisions, and end runs serve no
purpose. I think the viable  alternatives are:

1. If you don't care for the OBCAC decisions, don't  vote for
them again. If you like the decisions, vote for them again.

2. Run for the OBCAC and have a voice in where these
decisions  are discussed and voted upon.

My 2 cents (Canadian, which is back  around par!)

----- Original Message -----
From: _OBC-Ramblings@OBC-RamblingOBC_ (mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com)

To: _OBC-Ramblings@OBC-RamblingOBC_ (mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com)
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings
Date: 29 Jan 2008  18:34:06 -0000

>Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created  for the
>OBC-Ramblings group:
>Would you be in favor of  allowing UV sets (post-1980) to be
>listed on our "Who Collects What  Page"? Please note that
>this would not change the restrictions of  having post-1980
>sets listed on your OBC linked wantlist page.
> o Yes, I would be in favor of allowing UV sets on  the
>"Who Collects What" page
> o No, I want to leave things the  way they are
>To vote, please visit the following web  page:
>_http://groups.http://grohttp://grohttp://grohttp://grouhttp://g_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/surveys?id=12711336)
>Note:  Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
>not collected via  email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo!
>Groups web site listed  above.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:32:58 EST
To: Originaleek@webtv.net, Smartalecx@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

I agree with EEk, I fully stand by the OBCAC all the way

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: o b 
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:41:04 -0500
From: jeff sinclair 
Subject: uv debate

Hey guys,
Thought I would throw my opinion out to all of you concerning the "what to do
about (new) cards"  issue. I have boxes and boxes of cards from the mid to
late eighties when the hobby took off and every other week gave us a newmanufacturer
with subset after subset of cards for us to run out and buy hoping
to find the days hot rookie or error, can anybody say Billy Ripken? And
I have boxes and boxes of cards from the early nineties when waxpacks, rack
packs, sets, and more lined the aisles at the big box retailers and every
weekend had a show at the mall or local hotel. Those boxes and boxes of cards
never made it into a binder, back then there wasn't any time to put aset
together when you were trying to get every Griffey card you could pullout
of a pack. After several years I realized that I was getting zero enjoyment
out of something that I had enjoyed thoroughly as a kid, and I just stopped
buying cards, period. When work brought us back to Pittsburgh I retrieved
the one shoebox of cards that was still under my bed at my parents. As
I sat there looking through them I remembered the feel of the candy storesteps
and more than that I remembered the game for what it was to me, a place
where heroes were born. I hadn't felt that in a long time and realized that
I had been missing that feeling and those "old" players, guys who spent
most of their careers with the same team, guys who came to your little league
baseball banquet and talked to you about the game. Right then I decided
to attempt to finish the collection in that box and began to slowly fill sets
from 1969-1973. It was slow going, I just didn't, and still don't, seehow
a piece of cardboard could cost me as much as 300 packs or so cost me twenty
years earlier. Once we bought a computer I did have some early success
on Ebay but that soon became as ridiculous as the shows, I didn't, and still
don't, care if a card was good, fair, mint, or Tipton as long as I could
read it. But the internet did give me options and one day I stumbled upon
the OBC site and thought it looked promising. Old Baseball Cards sounded good
but how old? After reading the FAQ'S that stated this was a group thatconcentrated
on pre 1980 cards and went on to state that this probably wasn't
the place for "newer" card collectors I was hooked. I didn't want to see
or read about Donruss, Upper Deck, Choice, Score, Platinum, Pinnacle, etc,
etc, etc..... Old Baseball Cards to me meant when I was a kid, and that also
meant Topps and only Topps. I joined the group to fill those "old" setsin
my shoebox and while I was at it I thought that collecting all of the Topps
sets from my youth would be kind of cool. I put wantlists together from
1961 (birth year) to 1979 (high school graduation). It's coincidence thatthe
years matched up with the groups "deadline" but had the homepage said anything
other than pre 1980 I would never have landed here. I later added the
1960 set to finish the decade. Because of the way I feel about baseballtoday
compared to the way I felt about it in 1970 I like having a place togo
where I can remember the feel of the candy store steps and would preferthat
the days of Walmart didn't intrude. But that's me and I realize that a
lot of guys in this group were born or started buying cards after the candy
stores had been torn down and "old" has different meaning. Still, when any
of us joined we knew the terrain, "to preserve the intent of the group as
it was when it was formed".
All of that being said, I like the yearly project idea, I have boxes and boxes
of cards that I would like to be rid of (how many Rueben Sierras does one
man need). But I also like that it remains separate from the Old Baseball
Card site and traditional servers. If an email has a heading of OBC year project
I can delete it, I may not want to see where somebody received a 1984
Topps All Star Glossy card that I probably have a dozen of. I always want
to see thanks for the 1964 whatever card that I may or may not have one of.
I don't think I would have liked it as much if the database idea hadn't been
added. I can go to a year, check the lists, and be done, hopefully ridding
myself of three or four 1988 Oddibe "Young Again" McDowell cards in the
process. I really don't find any enjoyment in that though, you could buy that
card for a nickel from anybody! I want to send that 1967 Wally Bunker with
the rounded corners and crease that everybody is trying to sell as a Gem
Mint #10 for fifteen bucks. You'll notice that I posted lists on the database.
Speaking for myself, the fact that I joined in on this new endeavor in
no way reflects what I want OBC to be or where I want it to go. It's a coincidence
that these new lists of mine are pre 1980 but they are football cards,
something else that is separate from Old Baseball Cards, as they should
be. Somebody said that the OBCAC was off the mark and not correctly gauging
the wants of the membership. I suppose this was directed at the amountof
activity that the project has created. My activity changes nothing about
why I joined this group. To me it is and will always be not only Old Baseball
Cards but the breed of men on those cards, and the times those cards represent.
I applaud our OBCAC for trying to preserve something that is fast
becoming nothing more than a fading memory, the feel of the candy store steps.
That's why I'm here.

"Do you remember the feel of the candy store steps?"

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get your
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:19:36 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Larry Zurawski" 
Subject: Outgoing Packages

I've been quiet for a long time, but that has given me a chance to
replenish my dupes box. I'll be sending out a lot of OBC packages in
the next few days; I'm especially trying to hit the want lists of
those of you to whom I've never sent anything before. So be on the
lookout for your mailman.
Larry Z.

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 17:09:58 -0800 (PST)
To: smartalecx@aol.com, Topgolf@aol.com, obc-announcements@yahoogroups.com,
From: Geno Wagner 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Announcements] January report

Fellas --

I think the poll is fine, as it will let the AC see
where the members stand.  However, I agree with Mike
that the AC can totally disregard it if they like and
vote the way they think is in the best interest of the
future of OBC.

Take Care,

--- smartalecx@aol.com wrote:

> thanks mike:
> i certainly wouldnt assume that any poll would be
> binding.  i just  have the
> sense that they are off on this one, and was curious
> what everyone else
> thought.
> nice to hear from you.
> In a message dated 1/29/2008 1:44:38 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> topgolf@aol.com writes:
> I disagree with the poll. We have elected the OBCAC
> to make decisions and  we
> should let them do so. If we are going to have a
> poll on every issue, there
> is no need for the OBCAC.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  smartalecx@aol.Fro
> To: obc-announcements@To: obc-annoTo:
> obc-announcements@To: obc-annoTo:
> Sent: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:30  am
> Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Announcements]
> January report
> i think the OBCAC has lost touch with what's going
> on.
> there is probably a record amount of cards flying
> around these days with  the
> year by year project.  to not allow something as
> simple as adding uv  lists
> to the "who collects what" page is ridiculous.
> your precious post-1980 restrictions on our web
> pages would be preserved,
> and all would be well.  but instead, we need to make
> more work for  ourselves
> despite a large number of members participating.
> you are supposed to be representing the members --
> maybe a poll would be  in
> order.
> gm
> In a message dated 1/29/2008 12:19:23 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> jwi62@hotmail.In a messag
> OBCers:
> There was only one item that the OBCAC  voted in
> January.
> Motion to add UV sets to the "Who  collects what"
> page - FAILED 5-2
> Geordie Calvert  will conduct the bi-annual
> membership opt-out poll soon.
> Please  check your directory info for inaccuracies.
> Don't forget  about the upcoming AC elections - Fr.
> Pat will serve as the
> election  commissioner and will have more on the
> elections later this week.   As
> in the past, don't forget to contact somebody before
> nominating  them.
> Remember to bring up any thoughts, concerns, etc to
> the  Ramblings server if
> you think the AC should consider  something.
> Your OBCAC is Andy Cook, Wayne Delia, Spike Glidden,
>  Ken Morganti, Mike
> Rich, Steve Rittenberg and Mark  Talbot.
> Joe
> ____________________________________
> Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant
> messaging. You IM, we
> give. _Learn more._
(http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join)
> ____________________________________
>  Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in
> shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489)
>  in the new year.
> ____________________________________
>  More new features than ever. Check out the new _AOL
> Mail_
(http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003)
> !
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways
> to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

=================

To: 
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:23:44 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: Soap Boxin'

I'm not even going to "visit" this poll 'cause I know I'd be tempted to wander
over to the "dark side."  Somewhat concurring with Cap Jeff's Ramble, Icame
to OBC for basically one simple reason.  "OLD."

Now, for me, the kicker is "where" do you define "old."  I'm all over the idea
of x number of years ago, but I also don't want to see us trying to hita
moving target every year, so I think we should just leave the pre-1980 date
in place.  FOREVER!

Alas, I think a whole new group should be founded.  The "Flavor (Year?) of the
Month" group, or perhaps, the NBC (New Baseball Cards) where every fourto
six weeks, members flaunt and pass the latest chosen set of cards.  If he
would accept, I'd nominate Aaron as the Inaugural President with a four year
term, and if such an idea should ever bare fruit, this whole debate could,
and would, forever be eliminated from OBC rafters.

I can't imagine wanting to sift through the additional Email from yet another
group, but, I'd probably join anyway, just so I wasn't left out when thelatest
hot-to-trot 1990's set once again hit the market.

----- Original Message -----
From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:34 AM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
OBC-Ramblings group:

Would you be in favor of allowing UV sets (post-1980) to be listed on our "Who
Collects What Page"? Please note that this would not change the restrictions
of having post-1980 sets listed on your OBC linked wantlist page.

o Yes, I would be in favor of allowing UV sets on the "Who Collects What" page
o No, I want to leave things the way they are

To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/surveys?id12711336

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

=================

To: ,
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:31:06 -0700
From: "Walker" 
Subject: OMGosh     - - -    Re: deepski57, important seller pricing changes

Untitled DocumentWhine and cry, and they listen?

I will NEVER, EVER, believe any of this had anything to do with all the whining
and bitching Email I've sent over the past few years, (Especially the past
few weeks.) but whatever changes are happening, it appears they are heading
in the right direction.

I absolutely LOVE the first entry under number  3.)  Buyers will only be able
to receive positive feedback.      Finally, perhaps no more retaliatory feedback
just because the seller screwed up.

Oh my thank the seven eleven heavens if this should come to "law."

One less soapbox to stand on.

----- Original Message -----
From: eBay
To: wguthrie@axint.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:02 PM
Subject: deepski57, important seller pricing changes

eBay sent this message to Walker L. Guthrie (deepski57).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated
from eBay.
Learn more.

Seller Update: Fees, Rewards & Standards
eBay buyers want value and selection from sellers they can trust--and
good sellers deserve rewards for delivering great customer service. That's
why we're making a number of important changes that may affect you:

1.. Reduced Listing Fees
You asked, we listened. We're reducing Insertion Fees and adjusting
Final Value Fees to lower your up-front cost to sell on eBay. You wanted
free Gallery, now you've got it--plus more feature discounts.
a.. Lower Insertion Fees
b.. Making Gallery free
c.. Lower fees for Gallery Plus, Picture Pack, and Feature Plus

2.. Rewards for great sellers
There will be discounts and incentives for those who satisfy customers
best. Who decides who gets rewarded? Customers do, by giving sellers
high Detailed Seller Ratings (DSRs).
a.. More search exposure through Best Match
b.. Fee discounts for PowerSellers
c.. Increased protection for PowerSellers

3.. Feedback Changes
Significant changes coming soon will increase buyer confidence
and showcase good sellers.
a.. Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback.
b.. Positive repeat customer Feedback will count and Feedback
more than 12 months old won't.
c.. Negative and neutral Feedback left by the buyer will beremoved
for transactions in which a buyer doesn't respond to the Unpaid Item
(UPI) or if the member is suspended.

For more details on how these changes may affect you, attend a special
Seller Webinar at 10:00 a.m. this Friday, February 1. You may also see
announcements from eBay executives on the Announcement Board.

Learn More to protect yourself from spoof (fake) emails.

eBay sent this email you at wguthrie@axint.net about your account
registered on eBay.com.

eBay will periodically send you required emails about the site and
your transactions. Visit our Privacy Policy and User Agreement if you have
any questions.

Copyright =A9 2008 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks
and brands are the property of their respective owners. eBay and the
eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. eBay is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue,
San Jose, CA 95125.

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:40:29 EST
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: larrygers@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] uv debate

Amen I say Amen
You are preaching to the choir I am sitting in.

In a message dated 1/29/2008 6:44:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
suzguy11@hotmail.com writes:

Hey guys,
Thought I would throw my opinion out to all of you concerning  the "what to
do about (new) cards"  issue. I have boxes and boxes of  cards from the midto
late eighties when the hobby took off and every other  week gave us a new
manufacturer with subset after subset of cards for us to  run out and buy hoping
to find the days hot rookie or error, can anybody say  Billy Ripken? And I have
boxes and boxes of cards from the early nineties when  waxpacks, rack packs,
sets, and more lined the aisles at the big box retailers  and every weekend
had a show at the mall or local hotel. Those boxes and boxes  of cards never
made it into a binder, back then there wasn't any time to put a  set together
when you were trying to get every Griffey card you could pull out  of a pack.
After several years I realized that I was getting zero  enjoyment out of
something that I had enjoyed thoroughly as a kid, and I  just stopped buying
period. When work brought us back to Pittsburgh I  retrieved the one shoebox
cards that was still under my bed at my parents.  As I sat there looking
through them I remembered the feel of the candy store  steps and more than that
remembered the game for what it was to me, a place  where heroes were born.I
hadn't felt that in a long time and realized that I  had been missing that
feeling and those "old" players, guys who spent most of  their careers withthe
same team, guys who came to your little league baseball  banquet and talkedto
you about the game. Right then I decided to attempt to  finish the collection
in that box and began to slowly fill sets from  1969-1973. It was slow going,
just didn't, and still don't, see how a piece  of cardboard could cost me as
much as 300 packs or so cost me twenty years  earlier. Once we bought a
computer I did have some early success on Ebay but  that soon became as ridiculous
as the shows, I didn't, and still don't, care  if a card was good, fair, mint,
or Tipton as long as I could read it. But the  internet did give me options
and one day I stumbled upon the OBC site and  thought it looked promising. Old
Baseball Cards sounded good but how old?  After reading the FAQ'S that stated
this was a group that concentrated on pre  1980 cards and went on to state that
this probably wasn't the place for  "newer" card collectors I was hooked. I
didn't want to see or read about  Donruss, Upper Deck, Choice, Score, Platinum,
Pinnacle, etc, etc, etc..... Old  Baseball Cards to me meant when I was a
kid, and that also meant Topps  and only Topps. I joined the group to fill those
"old" sets in my  shoebox and while I was at it I thought that collecting all
of the  Topps sets from my youth would be kind of cool. I put wantlists
together  from 1961 (birth year) to 1979 (high school graduation). It's coincidence
that  the years matched up with the groups "deadline" but had the homepage
said anything other than pre 1980 I would never have landed here. I later  added
the 1960 set to finish the decade. Because of the way I feel about  baseball
today compared to the way I felt about it in 1970 I like having  a place togo
where I can remember the feel of the candy store steps and  would prefer that
the days of Walmart didn't intrude. But that's me and I  realize that a lot
of guys in this group were born or started buying  cards after the candy stores
had been torn down and "old" has  different meaning. Still, when any of us
joined we knew the terrain, "to  preserve the intent of the group as it waswhen
it was formed".
All  of that being said, I like the yearly project idea, I have boxes and
boxes of  cards that I would like to be rid of (how many Rueben Sierras does
man need). But I also like that it remains separate from the Old Baseball
Card site and traditional servers. If an email has a heading of OBC year
project I can delete it, I may not want to see where somebody  received a 1984
All Star Glossy card that I probably have a dozen  of. I always want to see
thanks for the 1964 whatever card that I may or may  not have one of. I don't
think I would have liked it as much if  the database idea hadn't been added.
can go to a year, check the  lists, and be done, hopefully ridding myself of
three or four 1988 Oddibe  "Young Again" McDowell cards in the process. I
really don't find any enjoyment  in that though, you could buy that card for
nickel from anybody! I want to  send that 1967 Wally Bunker with the rounded
corners and  crease that everybody is trying to sell as a Gem Mint #10 for fifteen
bucks. You'll notice that I posted lists on the database. Speaking for
myself, the fact that I joined in on this new endeavor in no way reflects what
want OBC to be or where I want it to go. It's a coincidence that these  new
lists of mine are pre 1980 but they are football cards,  something else that
separate from Old Baseball Cards, as they should  be. Somebody said that the
OBCAC was off the mark and not correctly gauging  the wants of the membership.
suppose this was directed at the amount of  activity that the project has
created. My activity changes nothing about why I  joined this group. To me it
and will always be not only Old Baseball  Cards but the breed of men on those
cards, and the times those cards  represent.  I applaud our OBCAC for trying
to preserve something that is fast becoming nothing more than a fading
memory, the feel of the candy store steps. That's why I'm  here.

"Do you remember the feel of the  candy store  steps?"

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get your
"fix". _Check it out._ (http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:24:43 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Favorite Ebayers?

Not sure if we even have a category for this, but I have had a real good
dealing with americards  on ebay. I won a few old Jets cards and the 59  Spahn
partial obscured.  I noticed he had a bunch of 58s that wound up with  no bids
on them so I approached him about making a deal. Now the deal was fair  (just a
shade under a buck each, but the cards are much better than tipton). He  was
a pleasure to deal with and his communication was great. I told him I would
pass the word to you boys. He's definitely on my favorite sellers list now. Has
a lot of older stuff and decent prices. His feedback is aces also....

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:01:42 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "uthminsta1" 
Subject: I have two cents burning a hole in my pocket, so...

Hey here's my suggestion.  But it's only MY suggestion.  I don't think
anyone needs to agree with me, I just feel maybe I oughtta say it.
And I promise not to get sad if someone disagrees. :)

1.  I stand behind the OBCAC vote.  Leave the Who Collects What page
the way it is.  If it is changed, I would think it could be to add
more vintage era ODDBALL stuff.  VINTAGE.  And keep it BASEBALL.

2.  If you're interested in joining the OBCYearProject, then that's
great.  It seems to be working quite well for several guys.  If you're
not interested, that's perfectly fine too.  When it works its way back
to an era where you may be interested, you will still be welcome to
join or not.  But please don't bash it.  As I said, it seems to be
working quite well for several guys.  Especially with the help of Bob
Reed's database ideas.

3.  Don't make me the president or whatever of a new group.  I want to
be a part of OBC.  I don't know if I can say that any more clearly.

4.  Thanks for cards received should still be placed in the proper
server.  If you received some 1979 Hostess because of the Project, you
should post in the main OBC Thanks server.  If you got a stack of 1982
Topps Stickers, you should post your thanks in the UV server.
(I confess, that part was a little reactionary, because it seems as if
some of the people in the group are equating the Project with UV, and
assuming that my intent was to infiltrate the pure focus of OBC with
new junk.  And that's simply not true.)

5.  Leave the UV cutoff where it is.  Just leave it alone.  But now
stand back and take the rest of this one with a grain of salt.
Translation: don't get mad, it's just an idea.  Here goes.  CONSIDER
revisiting the subject in THREE more years.  In 2011, perhaps we could
think about allowing "30 years old" to be the cutoff.  By which I
mean, 30-year-old cards are Old Baseball Cards.  But look at it like
this.  We don't even have to talk about it until sometime in 2010.
Right now the cutoff for some people is 35 years, because 1973 Topps
are 35 years old.  For others it's 28 years, because they collect up
to 1980.  I don't know.  I've just been thinking.  Maybe?

Signed... Aaron - aka
the "stirrer-upper" ...
the "ruckus-causer" ...
the "guy-with-all-these-crazy-stupid-ideas" ...
the "young-whipper-snapper-who-started-collecting-in-1982" ...

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:10:49 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "cjmdpi" 
Subject: Sitting on the fence "poll"

I am not so sure the idea of a poll to gauge the membership interest
in this (or any other topic) is necessarily a bad thing.  It probably
should have been initiated by a different person/group (i.e. someone
in the OBCAC).  It never hurts to hear how people feel about an issue
before you vote on it.  Likewise, voting on this poll should not be
construed as anything but that: expressing my opinion on whether I
would like to see the information be made available to other members.
As we all know, we all have opinions.

How bout that Santana trade!  It would appear, if it finalizes, that
the Twins came up a little short on talent in this trade.  Oh well,
they will be able to keep their payroll below $50,000,000 this year.
Translation, Carl Pohlad is the big winner.

Go Tigers

=================

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:22:30 -0800 (PST)
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Joel GYselinck 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] I have two cents burning a hole in my pocket, so...

I am new here so I will keeo this short....I think my definition of vintage is a lot different than most in the group... and I don't see a problem with occasionally talking about changing the cutoff line. That said I tend to agree with Aaron that we should wait and continue on with the yearly project until it is time to revisit this again.... Old baseball cards to me is about bringing back the childhood feeling of collecting ballcards. It brings back for me the little lady at Hilltop Store on Vancouver Island shaking her head at me while I chewed away with about 10 pieces of gum in my mouth ripping open packs on her front doorstep. Jumping up and down when I found a 79 OPC Reggie Jackson or Goose Gossage. Running in for more when the pack was a bit of dud and was loaded with players I never ever got to see on Saturda morning baseball. I guess my cutoff for those memories would be the 83 or 84 OPC sets... the years in which I discovered all those things that teenage boys
discover :) For me joining this group has been about sharing nostalgia and getting to know people like Grant and Rick in person or guys like Aaron and the rest of you through the mail. Sometimes I think we take these dates and things a little too seriously. Let's keep everything the same and just move on to this cool year by year project on whichever server is appropriate.

Tkae care and keep smiling, Joel

uthminsta1  wrote:
Hey here's my suggestion. But it's only MY suggestion. I don't think
anyone needs to agree with me, I just feel maybe I oughtta say it.
And I promise not to get sad if someone disagrees. :)

1. I stand behind the OBCAC vote. Leave the Who Collects What page
the way it is. If it is changed, I would think it could be to add
more vintage era ODDBALL stuff. VINTAGE. And keep it BASEBALL.

2. If you're interested in joining the OBCYearProject, then that's
great. It seems to be working quite well for several guys. If you're
not interested, that's perfectly fine too. When it works its way back
to an era where you may be interested, you will still be welcome to
join or not. But please don't bash it. As I said, it seems to be
working quite well for several guys. Especially with the help of Bob
Reed's database ideas.

3. Don't make me the president or whatever of a new group. I want to
be a part of OBC. I don't know if I can say that any more clearly.

4. Thanks for cards received should still be placed in the proper
server. If you received some 1979 Hostess because of the Project, you
should post in the main OBC Thanks server. If you got a stack of 1982
Topps Stickers, you should post your thanks in the UV server.
(I confess, that part was a little reactionary, because it seems as if
some of the people in the group are equating the Project with UV, and
assuming that my intent was to infiltrate the pure focus of OBC with
new junk. And that's simply not true.)

5. Leave the UV cutoff where it is. Just leave it alone. But now
stand back and take the rest of this one with a grain of salt.
Translation: don't get mad, it's just an idea. Here goes. CONSIDER
revisiting the subject in THREE more years. In 2011, perhaps we could
think about allowing "30 years old" to be the cutoff. By which I
mean, 30-year-old cards are Old Baseball Cards. But look at it like
this. We don't even have to talk about it until sometime in 2010.
Right now the cutoff for some people is 35 years, because 1973 Topps
are 35 years old. For others it's 28 years, because they collect up
to 1980. I don't know. I've just been thinking. Maybe?

Signed... Aaron - aka
the "stirrer-upper" ...
the "ruckus-causer" ...
the "guy-with-all-these-crazy-stupid-ideas" ...
the "young-whipper-snapper-who-started-collecting-in-1982" ...

Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
=================

To: cjmdpi , 
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:06:36 +0000
From: LYONS RONI 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Sitting on the fence "poll"

I agree totally with all these points even politicians listen to the massesonce
in a while thats why they do polls. Being new my view point is a little
different I know because I don't collect pre war not because I don't want
to  but because my collection is not to that stage yet. Hopefully some day
I will get there. "OLD " is a relative term and I don't think we are at the
stage for needing change but change will happen just when. I just want to
point out 20 years from now a 30 year old man is going to want to join OBC
because he likes the ideals you have pointed out "simpler times" etc. and"collect
older cards" what kind of collection do you think he really has? He
is 10 years old right now. I know alot of you are in the group for the camaraderie
and do little "trading" which I think is great I have learn so much
listening to you guys about older cards and it has opened my eye on alot
of stuff and I want to keep learning but these new ideas have opened up the
trading part of the club which I think it is good also. I'm afraid of ifwe
stand still forever we will just become a chat room about old baseball cards
which is only half of the reason I want to be apart of this club. just
my opinion Rick

To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.comFrom: cjmdpi@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 30 Jan 2008
05:10:49 +0000Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Sitting on the fence "poll"

I am not so sure the idea of a poll to gauge the membership interestin this(or
any other topic) is necessarily a bad thing. It probablyshould have been
initiated by a different person/group (i.e. someonein the OBCAC). It never
hurts to hear how people feel about an issuebefore you vote on it. Likewise,
voting on this poll should not beconstrued as anything but that: expressing
my opinion on whether Iwould like to see the information be made available
to other members.As we all know, we all have opinions.How bout that Santana
trade! It would appear, if it finalizes, thatthe Twins came up a little
short on talent in this trade. Oh well,they will be able to keep their payroll
below $50,000,000 this year.Translation, Carl Pohlad is the big winner.CarlGo

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:03:56 -0500
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Keith Summers" 
Subject: 5-2 vote / 2 OBCers met/ 2 pics with Lynn Miller
Content-Disposition: inline

OBCers I've met [2]

Al Autry [1991 in Marietta GA]
Lynn Miller [1-27-09 in Marietta GA]

For the record I just voted to allow UV sets to be listed [7th vote]
on the WHO COLLECTS WHAT page.   By the way, I consider UV to start at
1987 myself but that's another poll/issue.  I've only read a couple of
the recent messages as I have not been subscribed to RAMBLINGS emails.
I set myself months ago to SPECIAL NOTICES ONLY but I am switching
back now, at least for a while.  I was alerted to the discussion by
the ANNOUNCEMENTS email.  I saw the vote was 5-2 but do we know who
voted for what?  If not, and assuming this issue was someone's MAIN
concern, how would they know who to vote for in the 2008 OBC elections
without emailing all 7 guys to see what their views are or reading all
the OBCAC member's posts to try to see how each stands :-)   Also I
wish that the current poll had been set up so that when the poll is
over, you could see who voted for what by looking at the email addys.

Anyway, attached is 2 pics taken on a cell phone of Lynn & I at the
bowling alley 1-27-09 in Marietta GA :-)  I have on my OBC shirt but
you can't really tell.   It was great to meet Lynn after years of
trading emails! :-)  And thanks Lynn for the yellow 70 Dodge
Challenger 1:24 scale die cast car model too!

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 07:22:10 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Keith" 
Subject: 2 pics uploaded in PHOTOS album  KEITH's STUFF

I put the 2 pics of Lynn Miller & I in the PHOTOS section in the album
called KEITH's STUFF.

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:25:29 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: curious

first off, i would like to thank everyone who took the time to write and  say
its OK for us to get a sense of what the membership is thinking, and not
some sort of grass roots mutiny.  for those of you who thought the poll was
designed to override the OBCAC, i believe that you were mistaken on its  intent.

secondly, i would like some clarification on the rules about thanking folks
for UV on the OBC Thanks server.  i frequently see postings like "thank you
to joe for hits to an unmentionable set that will be posted elsewhere".  is
that some kind of code that we can't figure out?  i even seem to  remember some
of these posts coming from OBCAC members.

personally, those coded posts don't bother me at all, but since  the powers
that be seem to be so intent about protecting the "old" in  obc, i would be
curious about what the exact rule is, and what, if anything, is  being done to
stop these postings?  without naming names, can you give me  some idea as to how
many emails have been sent out in the past two years  telling the author that
these posts are not welcomed on the thanks server?

if such responses are not being sent out, please let us know why not?   is
this "old baseball cards" all the time, some of the time, or never?

if its not "old" all the time, then i would like an explanation  from the 5
OBCAC member of your vote to not allow UV sets on the who collects  what page.
how do you determine when to apply the "old only"  standard?

i'm not trying to cause trouble, i am just trying to understand when the
"old" standard is firm, and when it seems to be ignored.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: ,
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:46:39 -0500
From: "Bob Donaldson" 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] curious

First off, although I don't agree with you on the who collects what page
issue I don't consider you a mutineer.  Disagreements are ok ;-)

If you look at the "Rules of Conduct" on the main OBC website should answer
all your questions.  Basically the OLD in OBC has been defined to be pre
1981 and it is not a sliding scale.  I think that's how many of us prefer
it, as illustrated by the results of your poll, which was about 2-1 against
your proposal.  However, as we are nearing an OBCAC election, I think you
have a perfect oppurtunity to try and change OBC's direction by running for
the OBCAC and helping shape the direction of the group.

I must say, based on past OBCAC elections I will take greater pleasure in
voting there knowing that I am picking from the best of the best, rather
than the upcoming presidential primary where I don't have the same warm
feeling about the candidates!

From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of smartalecx@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:25 AM
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] curious

first off, i would like to thank everyone who took the time to write and say
its OK for us to get a sense of what the membership is thinking, and not
some sort of grass roots mutiny.  for those of you who thought the poll was
designed to override the OBCAC, i believe that you were mistaken on its

secondly, i would like some clarification on the rules about thanking folks
for UV on the OBC Thanks server.  i frequently see postings like "thank you
to joe for hits to an unmentionable set that will be posted elsewhere".  is
that some kind of code that we can't figure out?  i even seem to remember
some of these posts coming from OBCAC members.

personally, those coded posts don't bother me at all, but since the powers
that be seem to be so intent about protecting the "old" in obc, i would be
curious about what the exact rule is, and what, if anything, is being done
to stop these postings?  without naming names, can you give me some idea as
to how many emails have been sent out in the past two years telling the
author that these posts are not welcomed on the thanks server?

if such responses are not being sent out, please let us know why not?  is
this "old baseball cards" all the time, some of the time, or never?

if its not "old" all the time, then i would like an explanation from the 5
OBCAC member of your vote to not allow UV sets on the who collects what
page.  how do you determine when to apply the "old only" standard?

i'm not trying to cause trouble, i am just trying to understand when the
"old" standard is firm, and when it seems to be ignored.

Start the year off right. Easy

ways to stay in shape in the new year.

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:19:41 EST
To: obcbobd@gmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] curious
Content-Language: en

thanks bob:

i for one am not trying to change our definition of OBC.  i like that  it is
pre-81, and have no desire to change that.

as far as the poll, last time i looked, 18 members voted, hardly
representative, but thats not the issue either.

i was not suggesting changing our definition of vintage/UV
i am not trying to get UV thanks on to the Thanks server
i am not trying to get UV sets listed on OBC pages

what i was suggesting is something that i thought was very innocent. adding
some newer sets to the who collects what page because it seems like there are
a  large number of members who collect newer stuff.

i was simply trying to make it a little easier for those  members who collect
post-1980 sets to have an easy way to see who may need  something that is
lying in my dupes box.  it wouldnt be shoved in someones  face. it would beseen
on a little used database file that no one has to look at  if they dont want

as i pointed out in my earlier email, there is plenty of reference to UV  all
over OBC.  i dont think anyone would say we have become a UV  group.  if two
thirds of the folks out there are opposed to UV mentions on  the server, than
why doesnt the OBCAC put a stop to it.  the fact that  we dont seem to be
consistent in how those rules are applied seems to be  something at least worth
taking a look at.

In a message dated 1/30/2008 8:47:22 AM Central Standard Time,
obcbobd@gmail.com writes:

First off, although I  don=E2=99t agree with you on the who collects what
issue I don=E2=99t consider you  a mutineer.  Disagreements are ok ;-)
If you look at the  =E2=9CRules of Conduct=E2=9D on the main OBC website
should answer
all your  questions.  Basically the OLD in OBC has been defined to be pre
1981 and  it is not a sliding scale.  I think that=E2=99s how many of usprefer
it, as
illustrated by the results of your poll, which was about 2-1 against your
proposal.  However, as we are nearing an OBCAC election, I think you have  a
perfect oppurtunity to try and change OBC=E2=99s direction by running for
the  OBCAC
and helping shape the direction of the group.
I must say, based on  past OBCAC elections I will take greater pleasure in
voting there knowing that  I am picking from the best of the best, rather than
the upcoming presidential  primary where I don=E2=99t have the same warmfeeling
about the  candidates!

From:  OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of  smartalecx@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:25  AM
To:  OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings]  curious

first off, i would  like to thank everyone who took the time to write and say
its OK for us to get  a sense of what the membership is thinking, and not
some sort of grass roots  mutiny.  for those of you who thought the poll was
designed to override  the OBCAC, i believe that you were mistaken on its  intent.

secondly, i would  like some clarification on the rules about thanking folks
for UV on the OBC  Thanks server.  i frequently see postings like "thank you
to joe for hits  to an unmentionable set that will be posted elsewhere".  is
t some  kind of code that we can't figure out?  i even seem to remember some
of these posts coming from OBCAC members.

personally, those  coded posts don't bother me at all, but since the powers
that  be seem to be so intent about protecting the "old" in obc, i would  be
curious about what the exact rule is, and what, if anything, is being done to
stop these postings?  without naming names, can you give me some idea  as to
how many emails have been sent out in the past two years telling  the author
that these posts are not welcomed on the thanks  server?

if such responses  are not being sent out, please let us know why not?  is
this "old  baseball cards" all the time, some of the time, or  never?

if its  not "old" all the time, then i would like an explanation from the 5
OBCAC member of your vote to not allow UV sets on the who collects what  page.
how do you determine when to apply the "old only"  standard?

i'm not trying to  cause trouble, i am just trying to understand when the
"old" standard is firm,  and when it seems to be ignored.

Start the year off  right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489)  in
the new year.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCIDaolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:27:38 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: friar4@aol.com
Subject: My concern

I hope that what I am about  to write does not come through as,
"holier than thou." It is certainly is not  intended to be self-righteous. I don't
feel holier than anybody, nor do I feel  more righteous.

I have been a proud member  of OBC since its earliest days; and you
should put the emphasis on the word  "proud." As has been stated many times, it
is more than just a group of people  who trade cards. We all know the
wonderful stories.

There have only been a few  times when I have been disappointed with
OBC; but when it has happened, it has  driven me to the verge of quitting,
and, on one occasion, it did put me on the  inactive list for a while. The
recurring theme that bothers me periodically is  the one that causes us to get lost
in our own importance - the one that makes us  lose sight of the reality of
what we are talking about. That reality still is  that we are collectors of
cardboard. The friendships and common causes that have  been spurned by that are
great and more than just positive related benefits,  but cardboard is still the
basic reason for the creation of the  group.

In my opinion, the current  dust-up about what constitutes "vintage
cards" is a case in point. I could care  less about what years qualify and I do
generally believe that it should be left  to OBCAC; but the whole point is
that this discussion is not worth any  possibility for hard feelings. I contend
this because, in the past, hard  feelings, and not cardboard, has been the
only enemy that has threatened our  existence. Soon we will be closing in on two
decades of existence, and I can't  begin to tell you how many guys have left
the group because of misunderstandings  and perceptions of ill will or intent.
I won't go into details, but a number of  valued friendships were lost because
people overreacted to what seemed to  be some pretty silly things. All of
this over cardboard and corollary  "issues."

I would like to urge  everyone to think about this when they are
tempted to take themselves and, yes,  OBC, too seriously. I value the friendships
too much to lose any more of them  over the definition of a word or challenges
to the wonderful and selfless  volunteers who man the OBCAC. Don't get me
wrong. Friendly debate is fine. As a  matter of fact, I think it is great; but
let's be sensitive to one another and  avoid words that are bound to create
resentment. The world and our country are  plagued with much more important
problems that we can get steamed about.

Hope you all accept this in  the way it was intended. Thanks for

Bob Corvello (proud new grandfather for the first  time)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:56:48 EST
To: Friar4@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: Wite3@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] My concern

I too have been a member of OBC for the past 20 years and have just a  simple
opinion on this issue. OBC was created for cards pre-1980. I collect  pre-war
cards. Everyone knows that means pre-WWII eventhough there have been ten
wars since then. Just because the time changes does not mean the nomenclature
should change. Most people still view vintage as 1980 and before (the expansion
of companies).

My simple point is this. It is not really all that difficult to be a member
of two groups. There are other trading groups for post-1980 cards that you can
join in addition to OBC. We are not exclusive. This is an open relationship
and  you are free to court UV, pre-war, even 19th century if you are into the
really  old!

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:11:03 EST
To: Wite3@aol.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] My concern

tnx joshua:

just so i understand, do you believe that this current year by year  project,
which seems to be involving post-1980 cards, should not be "affiliated"  with
OBC in any way?

In a message dated 1/30/2008 11:57:29 AM Central Standard Time,
Wite3@aol.com writes:

I too have been a member of OBC for the past 20 years and have just a  simple
opinion on this issue. OBC was created for cards pre-1980. I collect  pre-war
cards. Everyone knows that means pre-WWII eventhough there have been  ten
wars since then. Just because the time changes does not mean the  nomenclature
should change. Most people still view vintage as 1980 and before  (the expansion
of companies).

My simple point is this. It is not really all that difficult to be a  member
of two groups. There are other trading groups for post-1980 cards that  you
can join in addition to OBC. We are not exclusive. This is an open  relationship
and you are free to court UV, pre-war, even 19th century if you  are into the
really old!

Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489)  in the new year.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:12:25 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "Bill Ashton" 
Subject: My penny thought (not worth 2 cents)

Have you ever noticed that if you have one duplicate you can send it
off fairly easily.  But when you get two of the same card, you're stuck
with them for eternity.

I researched the trading clubs and determined OBC was for me.  Nobody
tells me often to trade.  Then there are the cards that just show up
unexpectedly that are better than trading.  Change is inevitable and
desired, but it doesn't mean a complete change over.  I don't think we
should be encouraging members to join other clubs.  I just want to
belong to one and I'm flexible to keep it fun.  I suggest we leave all
the Vintage card rules and websites as they are.  The new UV server and
web posting of wants is terrific.  Lets leave it as is for a while and
maybe future changes will become more evident with tme.

Bill AShton

=================

To: jeff sinclair , o b , smartalecx@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:07:15 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: Some random thoughts

Hello All,

I was initially prompted by Cap's eloquent expose' which once again brought us all back to the candy store steps.  I have enjoyed the banter over the communication lines of late, OBC'er are certainly not devoid of opinion and it is refreshing to be able to voice that opinion in an arena of tolerance, unlike so many other venues that are tainted by bias.  We may not always agree with one another but when we are through we usually don't "take our bat and bat and leave the field, we stay and continue the game."  It's always been this way.
Some of the earlier voices still resound in my memory banks; Rick Ellison, Skelley, Mike Hair, George Hay, Unk Phil, Roger Raum, among others all had things to say and we listened and chimed in accordingly.  Who out there remembers "Fernando" - I think I laughed for a week!!!  Over all this time some things have changed and some things have remained the same.  Some have actually "taken their things and left the field" because of too much change, yet we will always have those who advocate more of it.  The line in the "base-path" that denotes what is vintage and what is not has been one of those things that has not moved and if I still have an accurate sense of the groups feelings on this - that is not likely to change in the near future.
I've been with OBC for 7 1/2 years and would have been a member longer but it took me over a year to get in.  That's one of the things that HAS changed.  Many of you are not even aware that at one time there was a "cap" on the size of the group, I'm sure that topic had a number of discussions on its own.  Unlike many of you, I had to wait to become a member for two membership polls until there was "room" for a new member.  Now I'm sure that there were good reasons for this idea at the time and when it was no longer a good idea that "rule" was changed.  So in this group I have learned to Never say Never, as anything is subject to discussion and perhaps change when it is warranted.  So I fully expect that the discussion will continue and regardless of the topic, some will disagree, some will agree - and that's the way it should be.
It has been my pleasure to serve the past year on the OBC-AC and if asked again I will certainly serve my fellow members again.  From time to time this past year individual members have contacted me about one concern or another and I have brought those items to the AC.  When its time to vote on an issue I do my best to "represent" those who I have been in contact with but at the end of the day my vote is mine.  If I in good conscience cannot vote for something even though a number of members are in favor of it I will have to vote my conscience - and that's that.  The OBC-AC is a voluntary position and I believe that when voted in by the membership it was partly to do with my collecting philosophy and how I have conducted myself over these many years.  I think those credentials speak for themselves regardless of my stand on any particular issue as they do for all those with whom I serve.  Preserving OBC "as it should be" is the obligation of the OBC-AC and sometimes that will i
nvoke criticism as the recent discussion is evidence of.  This is all OKAY!!!
In light of preserving OBC "as it should be" let me say a few words about the "vintage" debate.  This 1980 line in the "base-path" has been a historical line that was established in the prodigy days of this group.  In my mind it is one of those stipulations that define what OBC is.  There are plenty of other groups out there, I was a charter member of VCT in 1999 and continue to be a member there (remember OBC wouldn't let me in) and there is rarely the kinds of discussions in that group as we have over here.  UV and vintage cards are discussed openly and often in VCT to no ones chagrin.  It is a good thing that OBC and VCT are different, they each speak to the collecting interest of their membership and both have a well defined identity that attracts members to them.  We will always be defining what it means to be OBC and there is certain to be additional change, but I expect that many things will always remain the same about our group - for me that's not such a bad thing.
Someone mentioned the etiquette that is used when thanking individuals on the thanks server, which has always been one of my pet peeves.  I believe that it has always been acceptable to mention your thanks to someone who has sent you post 1980 material but not to elaborate on it.  I can tell you that I don't care what anyone says I'm going to thank publicly anyone who takes the time out to think of me and pop me something in the mail.  JUST TRY AND STOP ME!!!  In fact, I do get a bit disappointed when other do not do the same, but that's an entire different ramble.  I will not and do not go into extensive discourse over post 1980 materials but I will always post a thank you.
I would like to say publicly that I appreciate those like Gary Mandell, Aaron Shirley and others who like those before them are confident enough in their opinions to share them with the rest of us and open up lines of dialogue that often times need to be discussed.  I do not believe that the UV listings on the "Who collects what" page is a dead issue, despite the poll that seems to indicate that the OBC-AC "got it right".  In fact, like the Year Project that has established itself with a separate email account, it is within the realm of possibilities that a listing of "UV - Who collects what" could be established separate from the "official" OBC listing.  Remember anything is possible and Never say Never.  I also wanted to mention that I appreciated the input of Cap, Joel and Rick among others who remind us of why they enjoy OBC and thus kindle in ourselves our own rationale.
Finally, I remember my first on-line trade (Dan Austin), the first OBC'er I met (Mike Rich), my first National (Cleveland 2005), my first overseas phone call (Glenn Codere), my first "official"  FOOT gathering (Comerica Park), my first Morganti Ramble (this one probably rivals that one), my first pre-war card (Tim Newcomb), and I remember the many charitable drives we have undertaken and ROAK's, SCP's, MOOF, and BYOB (wait that must be another group).  I've enjoyed welcoming all who have come to the Southeastern Michigan area who had time to get together and I have enjoyed the welcome of others when I have been in your part of the country.  Yes, it's true that cardboard usually went flying but it was never expected and always so much more than cardboard fellas.  These are just a few of the reasons that I enjoy OBC and I look forward to more reasons and more OBC moments in the years to come.  Yes Cap - I remember the candy store steps and the allure of a much simpler time and I
do believe that we in OBC can also keep things simple and I remind all that this OBC'er always wants you to - BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ------------------------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: jeff sinclair 
Hey guys,
Thought I would throw my opinion out to all of you concerning the "what to do about (new) cards"  issue. I have boxes and boxes of cards from the mid to late eighties when the hobby took off and every other week gave us a new manufacturer with subset after subset of cards for us to run out and buy hoping to find the days hot rookie or error, can anybody say Billy Ripken? And I have boxes and boxes of cards from the early nineties when waxpacks, rack packs, sets, and more lined the aisles at the big box retailers and every weekend had a show at the mall or local hotel. Those boxes and boxes of cards never made it into a binder, back then there wasn't any time to put a set together when you were trying to get every Griffey card you could pull out of a pack. After several years I realized that I was getting zero enjoyment out of something that I had enjoyed thoroughly as a kid, and I just stopped buying cards, period. When work brought us back to Pittsburgh I retrieved the one shoebox
of cards that was still under my bed at my parents. As I sat there looking through them I remembered the feel of the candy store steps and more than that I remembered the game for what it was to me, a place where heroes were born. I hadn't felt that in a long time and realized that I had been missing that feeling and those "old" players, guys who spent most of their careers with the same team, guys who came to your little league baseball banquet and talked to you about the game. Right then I decided to attempt to finish the collection in that box and began to slowly fill sets from 1969-1973. It was slow going, I just didn't, and still don't, see how a piece of cardboard could cost me as much as 300 packs or so cost me twenty years earlier. Once we bought a computer I did have some early success on Ebay but that soon became as ridiculous as the shows, I didn't, and still don't, care if a card was good, fair, mint, or Tipton as long as I could read it. But the internet did give me o
ptions and one day I stumbled upon the OBC site and thought it looked promising. Old Baseball Cards sounded good but how old? After reading the FAQ'S that stated this was a group that concentrated on pre 1980 cards and went on to state that this probably wasn't the place for "newer" card collectors I was hooked. I didn't want to see or read about Donruss, Upper Deck, Choice, Score, Platinum, Pinnacle, etc, etc, etc..... Old Baseball Cards to me meant when I was a kid, and that also meant Topps and only Topps. I joined the group to fill those "old" sets in my shoebox and while I was at it I thought that collecting all of the Topps sets from my youth would be kind of cool. I put wantlists together from 1961 (birth year) to 1979 (high school graduation). It's coincidence that the years matched up with the groups "deadline" but had the homepage said anything other than pre 1980 I would never have landed here. I later added the 1960 set to finish the decade. Because of the way I feel ab
out baseball today compared to the way I felt about it in 1970 I like having a place to go where I can remember the feel of the candy store steps and would prefer that the days of Walmart didn't intrude. But that's me and I realize that a lot of guys in this group were born or started buying cards after the candy stores had been torn down and "old" has different meaning. Still, when any of us joined we knew the terrain, "to preserve the intent of the group as it was when it was formed".
All of that being said, I like the yearly project idea, I have boxes and boxes of cards that I would like to be rid of (how many Rueben Sierras does one man need). But I also like that it remains separate from the Old Baseball Card site and traditional servers. If an email has a heading of OBC year project I can delete it, I may not want to see where somebody received a 1984 Topps All Star Glossy card that I probably have a dozen of. I always want to see thanks for the 1964 whatever card that I may or may not have one of. I don't think I would have liked it as much if the database idea hadn't been added. I can go to a year, check the lists, and be done, hopefully ridding myself of three or four 1988 Oddibe "Young Again" McDowell cards in the process. I really don't find any enjoyment in that though, you could buy that card for a nickel from anybody! I want to send that 1967 Wally Bunker with the rounded corners and crease that everybody is trying to sell as a Gem Mint #10 for fifte
en bucks. You'll notice that I posted lists on the database. Speaking for myself, the fact that I joined in on this new endeavor in no way reflects what I want OBC to be or where I want it to go. It's a coincidence that these new lists of mine are pre 1980 but they are football cards, something else that is separate from Old Baseball Cards, as they should be. Somebody said that the OBCAC was off the mark and not correctly gauging the wants of the membership. I suppose this was directed at the amount of activity that the project has created. My activity changes nothing about why I joined this group. To me it is and will always be not only Old Baseball Cards but the breed of men on those cards, and the times those cards represent.  I applaud our OBCAC for trying to preserve something that is fast becoming nothing more than a fading memory, the feel of the candy store steps. That's why I'm here.

"Do you remember the feel of the candy store steps?"

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out.

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:09:28 -0500
To: friar4@aol.com
From: Originaleek@webtv.net
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] My concern

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking since the start of this
discussion. It is often not what is said, but rather the manner and tone
in which it is said. Words with negative connotations will fuel
defensiveness. I defended the OBCAC because I know them and believe they
are acting in the best interest of OBC. I am uncomfortable with their
actions being described using disparaging terms. I believe that to do so
disparages them. I have been through a few discussions of this type
since joining OBC. It seems that it usually ends with someone getting
angry, hurt, or both. I am sad to say that persons have left the group
over some of those discussions.

Healthy discussions are a very good thing. However, I would hope we can
voice our opinion without belittling the opinions and beliefs of others
through use of derogatory terms.

Earl (proud old grandfather to the 9th power!)

OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: friar4@aol.com Date: Wed, Jan 30,
2008, 12:27pm To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings]
My concern

I hope that what I am about to write does not
come through as, "holier than thou." It is certainly is not intended to
be self-righteous. I don't feel holier than anybody, nor do I feel more

I have been a proud member of OBC since its
earliest days; and you should put the emphasis on the word "proud." As
has been stated many times, it is more than just a group of people who
trade cards. We all know the wonderful stories.

There have only been a few times when I have
been disappointed with OBC; but when it has happened, it has driven me
to the verge of quitting, and, on one occasion, it did put me on the
inactive list for a while. The recurring theme that bothers me
periodically is the one that causes us to get lost in our own importance
- the one that makes us lose sight of the reality of what we are talking
about. That reality still is that we are collectors of cardboard. The
friendships and common causes that have been spurned by that are great
and more than just positive related benefits, butcardboard is still
the basicreason for the creation of the group.

In my opinion, the current dust-up about what
constitutes "vintage cards" is a case in point. I could care less about
what years qualify and I do generally believe that it should be left to
OBCAC; but the whole point is that this discussionis not worth any
possibility for hard feelings. I contend this because, in the past, hard
feelings, and not cardboard, has been the only enemy that has threatened
our existence. Soon we will be closing in on two decades of existence,
and I can't begin to tell you how many guys have left the group because
of misunderstandings and perceptions of ill will or intent. I won't go
into details, but a number of valued friendships were lost because
people overreactedto what seemed to be some pretty silly things. All
of this over cardboard and corollary "issues."

I would like to urge everyone to think about
this when they are tempted to take themselves and, yes, OBC, too
seriously. I value the friendships too much to lose any more of them
over the definition of a word or challenges to the wonderful and
selfless volunteers who man the OBCAC. Don't get me wrong. Friendly
debate is fine. As a matter of fact, I think it is great; but let's be
sensitive to one another and avoid words that are bound to create
resentment. The world and our country are plagued with much more
important problems that we can get steamed about.

Hope you all accept this in the way it was
intended. Thanks for reading.

Bob Corvello (proud new grandfather for the first time)

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:16:05 EST
To: Smartalecx@aol.com
From: Wite3@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] My concern

I have no problem with post 1980 cards...heck my phillies list has post  1980
cards on it. But I prefer to keep the focus of the group on 1980 and  before.
In doing that I think that the project is a great idea and should be  done
from 1980 and back. If you all want to do a post-1980 project, I know there  are
groups out there for post-1980 and I am sure an idea this good will work
fine in those groups.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:19:14 EST
To: Originaleek@webtv.net, Friar4@aol.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] My concern

Dear OBC:

While I tried to be as diplomatic and unbiased as possible when wording the
poll I sent out yesterday, I apparently failed in those efforts in  presenting
the poll.

For that, I sincerely apologize, and hope that you can respond to the poll
and the way it was worded, and not my hot headed, flown off the handle
presentation of it.

You can change your votes up until the close of the poll, which I think is
February 12.

Gary Mandell

In a message dated 1/30/2008 1:10:03 PM Central Standard Time,
Originaleek@webtv.net writes:

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking since the start of  this
discussion. It is often not what is said, but rather the manner and  tone
in which it is said. Words with negative connotations will  fuel
defensiveness. I defended the OBCAC because I know them and believe  they
are acting in the best interest of OBC. I am uncomfortable with  their
actions being described using disparaging terms. I believe that to do  so
disparages them. I have been through a few discussions of this  type
since joining OBC. It seems that it usually ends with someone  getting
angry, hurt, or both. I am sad to say that persons have left the  group
over some of those discussions.

Healthy discussions are a  very good thing. However, I would hope we can
voice our opinion without  belittling the opinions and beliefs of others
through use of derogatory  terms.

Earl (proud old grandfather to the 9th power!)

_OBC-Ramblings@OBC-RamblingOBC_ (mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com)
From: _friar4@aol.com_ (mailto:friar4@aol.com)  Date: Wed, Jan 30,
2008,  12:27pm To: _OBC-Ramblings@OBC-RamblingOBC_
(mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com)   Subject: [OBC-Ramblings]
My concern

I hope  that what I am about to write does not
come through as, "holier than thou."  It is certainly is not intended to
be self-righteous. I don't feel holier  than anybody, nor do I feel  more

I  have been a proud member of OBC since its
earliest days; and you should put  the emphasis on the word "proud." As
has been stated many times, it is more  than just a group of people who
trade cards. We all know the wonderful  stories.

There  have only been a few times when I have
been disappointed with OBC; but when  it has happened, it has driven me
to the verge of quitting, and, on one  occasion, it did put me on the
inactive list for a while. The recurring  theme that bothers me
periodically is the one that causes us to get lost in  our own importance
- the one that makes us lose sight of the reality of  what we are talking
about. That reality still is that we are collectors of  cardboard. The
friendships and common causes that have been spurned by that  are great
and more than just positive related benefits, but cardboard  is still
the basic reason for the creation of the  group.

In my  opinion, the current dust-up about what
constitutes "vintage cards" is a  case in point. I could care less about
what years qualify and I do  generally believe that it should be left to
OBCAC; but the whole point is  that this discussion is not worth any
possibility for hard feelings. I  contend this because, in the past, hard
feelings, and not cardboard, has  been the only enemy that has threatened
our existence. Soon we will be  closing in on two decades of existence,
and I can't begin to tell you how  many guys have left the group because
of misunderstandings and perceptions  of ill will or intent. I won't go
into details, but a number of valued  friendships were lost because
people overreacted to what seemed to be  some pretty silly things. All
of this over cardboard and corollary  "issues."

I would  like to urge everyone to think about
this when they are tempted to take  themselves and, yes, OBC, too
seriously. I value the friendships too much  to lose any more of them
over the definition of a word or challenges to the  wonderful and
selfless volunteers who man the OBCAC. Don't get me wrong.  Friendly
debate is fine. As a matter of fact, I think it is great; but  let's be
sensitive to one another and avoid words that are bound to  create
resentment. The world and our country are plagued with much  more
important problems that we can get steamed  about.

Hope you  all accept this in the way it was
intended. Thanks for  reading.

Bob Corvello (proud new grandfather for the first  time)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:29:47 EST
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, uvlist@yahoogroups.com
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
Subject: Possible Idea???

Hello All,
Over the past few weeks ideas and opinions have  been tossed around. The
ideas were not bad ideas at all.  That being said,  now I have an Idea. Just a
thought as it has been running through my head over  the past few days to
possible resolve this issue.

First I want to make it clear that I LOVE OBC and  LOVE being a member of
OBC. I love the standards of the group and it ideas of  the group. I also
think the name should speak for itself Old Baseball  Cards.  That being said, I
myself collect a wide range of cardboard ranging  from 1895 (only 1 card)-
through 2007  Now i really dont swap cards from  years over 1980+ sometimes guys
send me cards as i have a UV list and i thank  them on the UV server.

Here is my Idea: (please don't shoot me down)

As a member of OBC, I would be interested in  starting a group with the
same standards as OBC and keep the membership open to  all OBC members.  One of
the rules I was thinking about is You must go  through OBC  before joining
the newer group so we all know the person is a  legit  member and passed through
a vigorous acceptance. We can have the  who's collecting what on the site and
use the UV server as our postings. I am  home a lot, so I can help run the
web site as long as i get help on how to make  it work. Not sure of a name just
yet, but UVBC could be a possibility if its not  taken. we can run the group
the same way OBC is run.

I am sure their a lot of ideas that can be thrown out at this project. If
you like my idea let me know, if you dont..again let me know and if you want to
help out please LET me KNOW
Thank you

Rob "The FIREMAN"

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:05:58 -0800 (PST)
To: obc ramblings 
From: Matthew 
Subject: Spotted in Miami over the weekend...

The girlfriend and I went to Miami for the weekend, ostensibly to run in the ING Marathon (just the half for me, thanks). They let you put a name on your race number and I couldn't pass that up.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_gnsNN-zOZ0g/R6D-yNqIPBI/AAAAAAAAACA/QYYVDJh3RSo/s1600-h/miami_finish.jpg

Miami's January weather sure beats the heck out of Boston's scurrilous snow showers! Nuts to you, grimy ice piles.

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:15:55 -0000
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: "T.J. Valacak" 
Subject: Hoover

Not the vacuum cleaner.  Jerry Hoover contacted me for a trade.  Has
anyone in the group traded with Jerry?  How was the tradee?  I would
appreciate any feedback.

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:52:40 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: larrygers@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Hoover

I traded with Jerry Hoover a while back & was very satisfied
with my dealings with him. I seem to recall that Curt Flood
was his hero.

In a message dated 1/30/2008 6:16:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tvalacak@comcast.net writes:

Not the vacuum cleaner. Jerry Hoover contacted me for a trade. Has
anyone in the group traded with Jerry? How was the tradee? I would
appreciate any feedback.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:19:28 EST
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: larrygers@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted in Miami over the weekend...

You're my hero.
Finally an athlete that eats donuts while he runs.

In a message dated 1/30/2008 6:06:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
obc_spike@yahoo.com writes:

The girlfriend and I went to Miami for the weekend, ostensibly to run in  the
ING Marathon (just the half for  me, thanks). They let you put a name on your
race number and I couldn't pass  that up.

_http://bp2.blogger.http://bp2.http://bp2http://bp2.blogghttp://bp2.blogghttp:
//bp2.blohttp://bp2_
(http://bp2.blogger.com/_gnsNN-zOZ0g/R6D-yNqIPBI/AAAAAAAAACA/QYYVDJh3RSo/s1600-h/miami_finish.jpg)

Miami's  January weather sure beats the heck out of Boston's scurrilous snow
showers!  Nuts to you, grimy ice piles.

Never miss a thing. _Make Yahoo  your homepage._
(http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs)

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:48:06 EST
To: DaPatriot1@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, uvlist@yahoogroups.com
From: smartalecx@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Possible Idea???

there is a wonderful group called Trading Bases that our own Kevin Martens
moderates, and I am sure he would be happy to have any obc'ers join that would
be interested.  keep in mind it is a trading group and not so much a send
out without expecting anything in return, but just like with obc, it all evens

In a message dated 1/30/2008 3:31:20 PM Central Standard Time,
DaPatriot1@aol.com writes:

Hello All,
Over the past few weeks ideas and opinions have  been tossed around. The
ideas were not bad ideas at all.  That being  said, now I have an Idea. Just a
thought as it has been running through my  head over the past few days to
possible resolve this issue.

First I want to make it clear that I LOVE OBC and  LOVE being a member of
OBC. I love the standards of the group and it ideas of  the group. I also
think the name should speak for itself Old Baseball  Cards.  That being said, I
myself collect a wide range of cardboard  ranging from 1895 (only 1 card)-
through 2007  Now i really dont swap  cards from years over 1980+ sometimes guys
send me cards as i have a UV list  and i thank them on the UV server.

Here is my Idea: (please don't shoot me down)

As a member of OBC, I would be interested in  starting a group with the
same standards as OBC and keep the membership open  to all OBC members.  One of
the rules I was thinking about is You must go  through OBC  before joining
the newer group so we all know the person is  a legit  member and passed through
a vigorous acceptance. We can have the  who's collecting what on the site and
use the UV server as our postings. I am  home a lot, so I can help run the
web site as long as i get help on how to  make it work. Not sure of a name just
yet, but UVBC could be a possibility if  its not taken. we can run the group
the same way OBC is run.

I am sure their a lot of ideas that can be thrown out at this project. If
you like my idea let me know, if you dont..again let me know and if you want  to
help out please LET me KNOW
Thank you

Rob  "The FIREMAN"

Start the year off right. _Easy ways to stay in shape_
(http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489)  in the new year.

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t=50284/*http://finance.yahoo.com/personal-finance)
Guides, news,
advice & more.

Lawn & Garden
_on  Yahoo! Groups_
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.I-/J=1201728638747987/A=5170414/R=0/SIG=11btjb8oo/*http://new.groups.yahoo.co
For all things
green and growing.

Yahoo! Groups
_w/  John McEnroe_
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Day 10 Club.

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:32:37 EST
To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com
From: ChicoD1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Sitting on the fence "poll"

I personally kinda like the Santana trade :-)... But you guys are going to
love Gomez....has the potential to be real exciting and he is great in the
field  (maybe not Tori Hunter great, but give him some time and he will be). Watch
for  the kid in A ball, you may forget about Johan if this kid comes up as

In a message dated 1/30/2008 12:11:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cjmdpi@yahoo.com writes:

I am not so sure the idea of a poll to gauge the membership interest
in  this (or any other topic) is necessarily a bad thing. It probably
should  have been initiated by a different person/group (i.e. someone
in the  OBCAC). It never hurts to hear how people feel about an issue
before you  vote on it. Likewise, voting on this poll should not be
construed as  anything but that: expressing my opinion on whether I
would like to see the  information be made available to other members.
As we all know, we all have  opinions.

How bout that Santana trade! It would appear, if it  finalizes, that
the Twins came up a little short on talent in this trade.  Oh well,
they will be able to keep their payroll below $50,000,000 this  year.
Translation, Carl Pohlad is the big winner.

Go  Tigers

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

=================

To: ,
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:15:13 -0500
From: "Mark Holland" 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Possible Idea???

I don't venture into these discussions very often because like Rob, I am very
pleased to be a member of OBC.  My only regret is that I can't meet you guys
in person.  I have been fortunate enough to talk with a few of you on the
phone and we feel like instant friends as soon as we start a conversation.

In that spirit, I would like to endorse Rob's suggestion of a "spinoff" OBCgroup
that is totally independent of our existing group. We could apply the
best of both worlds to the "good old cardboard" as well as the newer stuff
we buy because we are addicted to baseball cards. It isn't right to change
OBC.  We knew coming in that it was a pre 1980 group. I had to work awfully
hard to get in and still maintain 2 wantlist to meet the rules. But thatis
my choice.  I am a member of other great UV groups including Kevin's Trading
Bases. It has many fine traders.  But for the most part they are traders
and not OBCers.  Many of them use price guides and quote BVs.  I choosenot
to play that game.  If a guy asked for BV or mint only or maybe he wants
an insert for a 91 Topps beauty I just pass without even checking their list.
If we could capture the magic of OBC in a UV group then everybody would
win.  I like the idea of maintaining the current OBC screening process but
don't want to burden our committee with UV duties.

I hope that this is taken as intended and is not offensive to anyone.  I endorse
leaving OBC as it is and would be excited to see Rob start an OBC satellite
UV group.

Thanks to anyone still with me.
Mark (the loner on NC) Holland

P.S  I became a grandfather for the first time tonight.  My son & daughter in
law had a baby boy at 5:45PM (or 1745 for you Geno).

----- Original Message -----
From: DaPatriot1@aol.com
To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; uvlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:29 PM
Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Possible Idea???

Hello All,
Over the past few weeks ideas and opinions have been tossed around. The
ideas were not bad ideas at all.  That being said, now I have an Idea. Just
a thought as it has been running through my head over the past few daysto
possible resolve this issue.

First I want to make it clear that I LOVE OBC and LOVE being a memberof
OBC. I love the standards of the group and it ideas of the group. I also
think the name should speak for itself Old Baseball Cards.  That being said,
I myself collect a wide range of cardboard ranging from 1895 (only 1 card)-
through 2007  Now i really dont swap cards from years over 1980+ sometimes
guys send me cards as i have a UV list and i thank them on the UV server.

Here is my Idea: (please don't shoot me down)

As a member of OBC, I would be interested in starting a group with the
same standards as OBC and keep the membership open to all OBC members.  One
of the rules I was thinking about is You must go through OBC  before joining
the newer group so we all know the person is a legit  member and passed
through a vigorous acceptance. We can have the who's collecting what on the
site and use the UV server as our postings. I am home a lot, so I can help
run the web site as long as i get help on how to make it work. Not sure of
a name just yet, but UVBC could be a possibility if its not taken. we can
run the group the same way OBC is run.

I am sure their a lot of ideas that can be thrown out at this project. Ifyou
like my idea let me know, if you dont..again let me know and if you want
to help out please LET me KNOW
Thank you

Rob "The FIREMAN" Gioia

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

=================

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:42:21 -0500
To: Matthew 
From: Jimmy Parker 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted in Miami over the weekend...

I'm assuming they wouldn't give you # 5?

Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Matthew wrote:

> The girlfriend and I went to Miami for the weekend, ostensibly to
> run in the ING Marathon (just the half for me, thanks). They let
> you put a name on your race number and I couldn't pass that up.
> http://bp2.blogger.com/_gnsNN-zOZ0g/R6D-yNqIPBI/AAAAAAAAACA/
> QYYVDJh3RSo/s1600-h/miami_finish.jpg
> Miami's January weather sure beats the heck out of Boston's
> scurrilous snow showers! Nuts to you, grimy ice piles.
> Spike
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

=================

To: 
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:35:59 -0500
From: Mac Wubben 
Subject: cheap slabbed sport king cobb on ebay--$150

http://cgi.ebay.com/1933-Sport-Kings-Ty-Cobb-SGC-Authentic_W0QQitemZ160204440052
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get your
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
=================

To: obc ramblings 
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:52:01 -0500
From: Bob Reed 
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted in Miami over the weekend...

Well with some arithmetic operators you can make 13913 be 1+(((3+9)*1)/3)
1+((12*1)/3)  1+(12/3)  1+4 which equals 5!

CC: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.comTo: obc_spike@yahoo.comFrom: catfish.obc@gmail.comDate:
Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:42:21 -0500Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted
in Miami over the weekend...

I'm assuming they wouldn't give you # 5?

Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Matthew wrote:

The girlfriend and I went to Miami for the weekend, ostensibly to run in the
ING Marathon (just the half for me, thanks). They let you put a name on your
race number and I couldn't pass that up.http://bp2.blogger.com/_gnsNN-zOZ0g/R6D-yNqIPBI/AAAAAAAAACA/QYYVDJh3RSo/s1600-h/miami_finish.jpgMiami's
weather sure beats the heck out of Boston's scurrilous snow showers! Nuts
to you, grimy ice piles.Spike

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/
=================

To: Bob Reed , obc ramblings 
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:59:39 +0000
From: talbot1@comcast.net
Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted in Miami over the weekend...

Someone has too much time on their hands - Well done Bob, I didn't even see that.  BE WELL!!!

REGARDS ----------------- MARK

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bob Reed 

Well with some arithmetic operators you can make 13913 be 1+(((3+9)*1)/3) = 1+((12*1)/3) = 1+(12/3) = 1+4 which equals 5!

CC: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
To: obc_spike@yahoo.com
From: catfish.obc@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:42:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted in Miami over the weekend...

I'm assuming they wouldn't give you # 5?

Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Matthew wrote:

The girlfriend and I went to Miami for the weekend, ostensibly to run in the ING Marathon (just the half for me, thanks). They let you put a name on your race number and I couldn't pass that up.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_gnsNN-zOZ0g/R6D-yNqIPBI/AAAAAAAAACA/QYYVDJh3RSo/s1600-h/miami_finish.jpg

Miami's January weather sure beats the heck out of Boston's scurrilous snow showers! Nuts to you, grimy ice piles.

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.

=================

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:13:30 -0500
To: Bob Reed 
From: Jimmy Parker 
Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted in Miami over the weekend...

Of course! If it was a snake, it would have bitten me!

On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:52 PM, Bob Reed wrote:

> Well with some arithmetic operators you can make 13913 be 1+(((3+9)
> *1)/3) = 1+((12*1)/3) = 1+(12/3) = 1+4 which equals 5!
> CC: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
> To: obc_spike@yahoo.com
> From: catfish.obc@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:42:21 -0500
> Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Spotted in Miami over the weekend...
> I'm assuming they wouldn't give you # 5?
> Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
> ...Save the gum for me!
> On Jan 30, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Matthew wrote:
> The girlfriend and I went to Miami for the weekend, ostensibly to
> run in the ING Marathon (just the half for me, thanks). They let
> you put a name on your race number and I couldn't pass that up.
> http://bp2.blogger.com/_gnsNN-zOZ0g/R6D-yNqIPBI/AAAAAAAAACA/
> QYYVDJh3RSo/s1600-h/miami_finish.jpg
> Miami's January weather sure beats the heck out of Boston's
> scurrilous snow showers! Nuts to you, grimy ice piles.
> Spike
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
> ...Save the gum for me!
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.

Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

=================

To: obc ramblings 
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:23:08 -0500
From: Jimmy Parker 
Subject: Resources for Gloves & Bats

Hey gang,

Over the last couple of years I've managed to pick up a few older
gloves and bats at flea markets and yard sales. It was all under
control and healthy until my wife recently bought me a 1950s Tom
Brewer (hometown hero) glove as a birthday gift. Now I'm really
enamored with the idea of adding more "display" quality items to my

I know several of our members also collect vintage gloves and bats
and I'm just curious as to what types of references (both printed and
online) you've found helpful in identifying and cleaning up such
items. To me, that's the great thing about a glove, unlike a card you
can find a really beat up glove and clean it up a bit and make it a
nice display piece.

Not that I have any problems what so ever with beat up cards!!!

Thanks in advance for any leads,
Jimmy "Catfish" Parker
...Save the gum for me!

=================

To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:36:50 -0500
From: typecard@aol.com
Subject: obc, uvbc, etc

I've been in OBC since December 1997 since I was inducted on the lawn at Ft Washington and Howard led the mugging of my dupes box. I came for the cards, stayed for the fun. I think the discussion the past week has been healthy and I hope everyone who wanted to voice an opinion, any opinion, felt able to do that. Regardless of how each individual member feels about UV cards, I think we all have some similarities:
1. We all have busy lives - jobs, families, bills, etc and our cards are a fun thing for us to relax with
2. We all are nuts about baseball and most of us would rather be out in the frontyard playing catch with someone than doing most other activities
3. We collect old, often mangled, baseball cards for a million different reasons
4. We like hanging out (sometimes in-person, often on-line) with people who share these characteristics

Todd Knowles, Steve Rittenberg, Mac Wubben and I had lunch this week in the DC Union Station foodcourt. I had never met Todd before; couldn't have picked him out of a lineup. But like the times before when I'd met OBCers for the first time, it was like meeting an old friend. As Steve noted, Mac and I did a big prewar swap there in the middle of the foodcourt - no price guides - it really was just I'll trade you this stack for that stack. I don't know who got the "better" deal, and it doesn't matter. We both ended up with cards we wanted. While I'm emulating Morganti, I'll digress for a couple more sentences to remember the time in Detroit in the willcall line at Comerica with the FOOT guys where we got to stand directly behind Frank Tanana to pick up our tickets! Awesome!

I own some UV cards -- I admit to weaknesses for 1981 Fleer and 2007 Goudey. I don't want to do arranged trades for these cards. I'd rather give my dupes to someone who needed them and hope someone would do the same for me. I remember back in 1982 when I was trading with Matt W. and we were trading dupes to complete our 1982 sets. He actually sorted all his dupes into piles of 2 cents, 3 cents, 5 cents and 10 cents. I was totally appalled -- he actually cared that a card was a "three-center" and not a "two-center"! I was appalled back then, and in retrospect, am even more appalled. I don't believe this is what card trading should be, but my impression is this is often what UV collecting is outside of OBC. I do think Rob has an interesting idea about an OBC for UV -- I might actually finish my 2007 Goudey set. I would be interested in more discussion of this idea.

I am on the OBCAC and I voted to limit the sets on the "what do you collect" page to pre-1980 because this group has always had that era focus, most of our collections are focused on pre-1980, and I think that's a nice clean break before the gross proliferation of sets in the 80s.

Every three years or so I aspire to write a Morgantiesque monologue and someday I'll reach his standards, not today, but I just wanted to add my $.02.

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