================= Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:03:11 EDT To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, obc-wantlist@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: May Waiver wire Hello All Its may 1st and im offering some Waiver wires.......Email me if you are working on any of these sets and need these guys to fill some holes...... Rob "The FIREMAN" 1955 topps # 30, 97 1955 Bowman #222 1956 Topps #85,102 1957 Topps # 137, 243 1958 Topps # 126,149,474 1959 Topps # 134,483 1960 Topps # 11,85,228 1963 Topps # 93 1964 Topps # 83,104,277 1965 Topps # 46,61,157,189,574 1967 Topps #9,206,232 1968 Topps #57 1971 Topps # 461 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: "obc" Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:35:20 -0500 From: "ken goetsch" Subject: New set added.....1969 Topps ...Football 4 in 1's.....separated panels I have added Topps 4 in 1 football separated panel to my wants.... I have a complete set of the complete panels.......thought I should have the separated 1's........ Any help greatly appreciated. Here it issss.....My wants for the 69' Topps separated 4 in 1's...... Alderman, Smith, Sayers, LeBeau, Allison, Buncom, Emanuel, Alworth, Maynard, McDole, Anderson, Tailaferro,Otis Taylor,Baker,Ballman, Hill, Jefferson, Dowler,Beer, Farr,Bishop,Banazak,Guidry,Day,Wilburn, Buoniconti,Saimes,MacKinnon,Duranko,Burson, Mackey,Meredith, Turner,Mitchell,Rochester,Nance,Dunaway,Csonka,Nelson, Munson,Ramsey,Curtis,Otto,Herman,Pardee,Snead,Baynham,Rassas, Smith,Grabowski,Charlie Taylor, Stratton,Brannan,Keyes,Dawson,Denson,Talamini,Blanda,Whalen, Kemp,Trull Philbin,Garrison,Buchannon,Unitas,Cox,Renfro,Walker,Lorick,Wilcox, Ken Goetsch ================= Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 00:13:43 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "jimbo777777" Subject: Availables From the 1947 Exhibits, Yogi (portrait, not Larry) Berra, decent Also, still a handful of orphans from the earlier 1960 Leaf offering. They are: 11 15 23 32 36 42 43 66 67 70. Would make a nice little starter set for somebody, since nobody apparently has them on their want list. Don't be shy! ================= Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:38:26 -0400 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Placeholder bid on ebay I've put in a placeholder bid on this one. Feel free to outbid me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220108372098 ================= To: "Steve Rittenberg" , "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 01:59:53 +0000 From: talbot1@comcast.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Placeholder bid on ebay Okay Steve - Got one in on the Gibson RC, some of you might remember my story about how I had this card for about 1 hour at the Redford Show. Hope I can get a break on this one. REGARDS ---------------- MARK -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Steve Rittenberg" I've put in a placeholder bid on this one. Feel free to outbid me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220108372098 ================= To: Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:42:03 +0100 From: "geno.wagner" Subject: HOF question OBCers -- So let's assume Orlando Cepeda gets put in the clink for drug possession. He has been in trouble for it before, so it's not a new thing for him. Does the Hall of Fame kick him out? If not, how can they keep Pete Rose out? Or Joe Jackson? What about Mark McGwire? What do you think? Personally, I say it leaves Cepeda unaffected in terms of the HOF. The other guys were in trouble for things they did during their playing days, so that's a bit harder. With the steroids of today, lots of guys elected now are going to be pointed at in the future for illegal drugs I would guess - do they get kicked out after they go in? My personal feeling is to let Rose and Jackson in, however, guys who cheat with performance enhancing drugs need to hit the street, unless they weren't illegal at the time... Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 12:03:08 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "jimbo777777" Subject: Leafing through the dupes Here's another bunch of 1960 Leaf availables. I picked up a lot of 10 last week. It included the Curt Flood card, but cost less than I would have expected to pay for just the Flood alone. Guess the guy scared off bidders by lumping them together or something. Anyway, here's some looking for a good home: #18 Gilliam #25 Grant error card, Lawrence pictured, heavily creased. #33 Hunt #46 Clete Boyer (Yo Jazzgirl, this one is crying out to you!) #60 Labine #62 Gabler #89 Blanchard, one really bad corner. All of the above are free to a good home. The lot also contained extras of #94 The Two Smiths, and #139 DeMaestri. I'm thinking about putting those two back out on ebay, but if you need 'em, get in touch, maybe we can work something out and save me listing fees. :) ================= Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:12:28 EDT To: geno.wagner@ntlworld.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question I think Cepeda is a disgrace to the sport, and that merits an expelling from the hall. Cepeda never should have gotten in ,in my opinion because he brought disgrace to the sport. I might think differently if this was Cepedas first offence and wouldn't say kick him out, because he is no longer a player..... I think what you do after you Play is up to you... As for Pete Rose well he was caught gambling on baseball as a manager so his merits as a player should get him into the hall Joe Jackson...Was found not guilty in a court of law he should be in Mark McGwire ,Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Palmero..these guys should all be banned...They cheated drugs are illegal and they used them for an edge. Only problem is who else used them in the 80's and 90's? do we keep them all out do you put an asterisk next to their names? Here's another question to Ponder....If we kick out/ban guys who used steroids for gaining an edge what do you do with all the Pitchers who are in the hall who threw a spit ball or who scuffed the ball? isn't that cheating as Rob "The FIREMAN" ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:29:55 -0400 To: geno.wagner From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question Content-Disposition: inline I don't know that any HOF in any sport has kicked someone out for behavior after they were elected. The HOF is for performance during the time they were in the game (including as a manager). That means Pete Rose is out. Joe Jackson is out. McGwire is debatable. Cepeda should stay in. OJ Simpson was under a cloud of suspicion for a while and eventually acquitted but that didn't affect his HOF status. Bill James wrote a cool book about the HOF called "Politics of Glory" (now retitled as "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame"). I do NOT consider this a technical book, at least not the first version "Politics of Glory". It has some really good chapters about how the HOF came about and how it has evolved. And a LOT has happened since then too. The Veterans Committee has been revamped once or twice. Another project added in more of the Negro League players. Here's a wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whatever_Happened_to_the_Hall_of_Fame%3F I recommend the book to help give people some context to the current debates. You can see that whatever argument we make today about Joe Schmoe was made 30 years ago about someone else. Here's my two cents on the players you mentioned below: (1) Joe Jackson -- if someone did some really good research and figured out that Jackson was screwed unfairly by Landis' decision, I wouldn't have a problem if he were made eligible for the HOF. I don't know if the material is out there to clear his name. But if you don't clear his name, you can't let him in. Jackson was recalcitrant (see my stuff about Rose next) but letting him in sets a BAD precedent. One thing I learned from the Bill James book is that popular debate is often framed in terms of the "lowest common denominator" argument. I fear that if an Joe Jackson gets in without his name being cleared, then the case against some other cheater (Rose, McGwire, whoever) is going to be that much weaker. Well, we let Joe Jackson in and he helped throw the WS. Why can't we let in Joe Schmoe who only throw the pennant? (2) Pete Rose -- I am BIG on feeling guilty about your mistakes. If people piss me off but tell me genuinely feel bad about the error, my anger dissipates quickly. Rose never regretted what he did. First he denied it. Then he said in a book "well ya. I did it." Now can you let me in to the HOF? His motivation seems to be money driven -- if he's sanctioned by MLB, he'll be able to appear at more events and make more money than he is making now. If Rose had shown regret after he had been kicked out and if he had acknowledged that he had a gambling problem that crossed the line, I'd be willing to let the guy go in. Until the latest announcement that he felt proud about betting on the Reds everynight, I thought he might sneak in during his last year of eligibility. Or maybe he'd get in after his death. [There is a large "halo" effect for the HOF. Several members have been elected in the year after their death.] But now I don't believe that will ever happen. (3) Mark McGwire -- Did anyone come off worse during the Senate hearings? Sammy Sosa claiming he didn't understand English well enough to answer was close enough to believable to let him skate. Palmiero totally ruined himself by waving his finger at everyone else and then getting caught. McGwire looked like a deer in the headlights. I don't see how he will be elected in the next five years. First of all, the memories are still fresh. Second, there are some basic logistics about the election process that will make it hard for him. Writers usually don't fill vote for as many guys as the ballot allows. Usually just two or three. So Ripken and Gwynn "took away" votes from other guys. Rickey Henderson will take votes away when he's eligible. I can't remember who else will be eligible. Here's a good article on what happened in 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_balloting,_2006 Wow. This email is Morganti-esque except for the $10 SAT words that Ken wisely does not use. I hope it was worth your time reading it. On 5/3/07, geno.wagner wrote: > OBCers -- > So let's assume Orlando Cepeda gets put in the clink for drug possession. > He has been in trouble for it before, so it's not a new thing for him. > Does > the Hall of Fame kick him out? If not, how can they keep Pete Rose out? Or > Joe Jackson? What about Mark McGwire? > What do you think? > Personally, I say it leaves Cepeda unaffected in terms of the HOF. The > other guys were in trouble for things they did during their playing days, > so > that's a bit harder. With the steroids of today, lots of guys elected now > are going to be pointed at in the future for illegal drugs I would guess - > do they get kicked out after they go in? My personal feeling is to let > Rose > and Jackson in, however, guys who cheat with performance enhancing drugs > need to hit the street, unless they weren't illegal at the time... > Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:56:16 -0400 To: geno.wagner@ntlworld.com (geno.wagner) From: Originaleek@webtv.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question A great question! Since this is essentially an opinion poll, I'm sure that responses will be divided not only by fact, but along lines of personal feelings and moral judgements as well. The mind boggles as we consider the variables that could be considered in this case. My humble opinion is greatly influenced by the fact that as an Addictions Specialist I see this as less a legal/moral issue and more as a medical/psychological issue. Although the AMA in theory accepts addiction as a disease, many physicians and much of society remain dubious. Medical Research Journals are full of articles documenting the physiological, bio-chemical basis for addiction. Studies involving brain chemistry, receptor sites and genetic markers provide fascinating reading for those with an interest. Some of the most fascinating research and controversy surrounds the area of "behavioral" addictions such as gambling, spending, sexual and eating disorders. The present conventional wisdom in the field is that the section and chemistry in the brain that determines whether a person will become addicted is the same regardless of what substance or behavior one is addicted to. Having said that, do I believe that having an addiction should provide a free pass for legal and moral transgressions? Absolutely not! In fact being accountable and responsible for their behavior is essential for an addict. Hopefully the judicial system will not be influenced by who Orlando is but rather by what he has done in terms of the law. I have not read anything on this yet so I'm not sure if the charge was possession with intent to distribute or for personal use, that will depend on the amount and other factors. At any rate, Orlando should serve whatever sentence a fair and just system deems appropriate. Finding such a system is another issue. I apologize to those OBCer's who are Criminal Justice Professionals. My wife and I have had many lively discussions. She has a doctorate in Criminal Justice and is a Management Analyst for the Drug Courts in the State of Michigan. I tease her that Criminal Justice is an oxymoron. Of course she simply replies that I am a moron sans the oxy. Even so, we both would agree that this should be bound over to a Drug Court and whatever the sentence in Orlando's case it should include treatment. So and finally, in answer to the question should Orlando be kicked out of the HOF? Unless and until the HOF establishes well delineated moral and legal positions and policies governing admission / expulsion, I think not! My professional side says that remaining in the Hall should be contingent upon completion of successful treatment and future continuing abstinence. I would like to say that my attitude in this regard is based upon fact and empirical data, however I must admit that my personal feelings about Orlando play a role. Orlando was a member of my HOM/HOF before his induction into The Hall. Even if he is booted from the Hall he will forever be a HOM/HOFer. Pete Rose is another story. While I believe he has an addiction in need of treatment, typically he continues to deny such. If and when we see a sincere & humble acknowledgement of such, inclusive of treatment, perhaps he should be inducted. His case is of course a bit different from Orlando's, in that his actions had a greater negative impact on the game of baseball. Besides I didn't like Pete before I knew he was gambling on baseball and he has never been and never will be in my There you have my half a mills worth. Thanks again Geno for giving me an opportunity to Ramble, not that I need a reason. We keep what we give away! ================= Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 10:25:04 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: friar4@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question - an Epiphany? This discussion about the Hall of Fame has really helped me to focus my own position. I don't think I take a back seat to anyone in my love for the game; so I have struggled with this for a very long time. The current dialogue has helped me to conclude that I think membership in the Hall should be based solely on performance on the field, whatever the nature of the performance (playing, managing, etc.). I do, however, believe that this guideline should be instituted along with some fundamental changes in the nature of what the Hall of Fame purports to be. Putting other restrictions on Hall membership seems to me to open the doors widely for subjective and relativist bias. How do you differentiate among steroids, other drugs, spit balls, other forms of cheating, gambling, the supposed racism and overall nastiness of players like Cobb, criminal behavior, womanizing, before and after playing days in attempting to make decisions related to a moral and values code that we can all accept as required for Hall membership? A quote from history comes to mind. I believe it was French foreign minister Georges Clemenceau who commented on Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points, saying, "Mr. Wilson bores me with his Fourteen Points, God Almighty only had ten." Moreover, I believe that precious little attention has been paid to the question of what the role of the baseball Hall of Fame should be in a complex society. Those who would deny membership to one player or another because of moral, ethical or values reasons seem to imply by their opinion that the Hall should represent virtue and be firmly established as a cultural icon. There is an implicit understanding in this current debate that players should be role models for children and society in general. While I think they should be, I also think that judging who has succeeded in this goal and who has not may be expecting too much from the Hall. Here is what I suggest. Let's take the Hall off of that visionary mountaintop and bring it into the real world. Structure Hall membership based purely on baseball performance; but change the image and function promoted by the Hall. Rather than organize it as an idealistic residence for baseball's pantheon, why don't we structure it more along the lines of a Presidential library. In other words, I think we should make the Hall an institution devoted to the history and promotion of baseball with both its glory and its warts. All, I repeat, all of the evidence related to a player's merit should reside in the Hall. Bonds would be there and so would McGwire, Rose, Cepeda and the rest - with records of the great things they did and also records of the various controversies that surrounded their contributions to the game. Let each individual viewer of the evidence come to his or her own conclusions on what it means. Why does membership in the Hall need to represent a decision that a player be worthy of reverence in a personal sense? From what I have heard or been told about Ty Cobb, I certainly have questions and problems with him as a person; but I have to respect the skills he had as a player. To me, the Hall would actually rise in my esteem if it attempted to deal with what baseball means to American (and world) culture, both in a good way and a bad. Quite frankly, I am tired of institutions that seem to exist for the sole purpose of promoting something whether that something is good or bad. I think that is one of the biggest problems in what labor unions have become. The Hall does not need to be that way and would benefit from becoming something else. The Hall of Fame is not a church, nor should it be. People can become famous for good reasons, bad reasons, or both. It seems to me that we are considering a group of men who fall into that "both" category. Why not admit that and look at it in detail with an eye toward changing evaluation when times change or new evidence emerges. As we have seen in recent years, that tends to happen quite often. Why not incorporate it into the Hall's charter? Great communications on this. Like I wrote earlier, it has really helped me arrive at a position. Bob Corvello ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:25:53 -0700 (PDT) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Brian Betza Subject: Re: HOF question Here's my opinion... if a guy gets into the Hall I don't think he comes out--- at the time of election he was deemed a HOF'er--for good or bad...it would be a bad precedent to remove someone once elected-- the whole process is subjective as is... As far as who belongs in--- one of the big issues that will keep someone out is the possibility that they messed with the integrity of the game-- gambling issues will always hang over Rose's head--- and the ultimate question-- were any games altered because of his bets--- His lack of honesty in addressing the allegations and suiting/timing his comments to his own agenda of self-promotion has destroyed the possibility of believing his testimony on the subject. So for Rose and Jackson there is the POSSIBILITY that they fixed and or altered the outcome of a game-- that is the "ultimate sin" and will probably keep them out of the Hall despite their on-field accomplishments. As far as steroid/performance drug use... I think the use is far more widespread than anyone thinks... I think the guys who have been accused so far is just the tip of the iceberg-- and not just in baseball and it's not just the elite performers either. The difference between spitballs and steroids lies with what's being altered...the equipment or the person--- as a society we don't take kindly to altering people (see: cloning and genetic research)and are a lot more lienient when it comes to other forms of "getting an edge".. also there's a chance for an umpire or referee to identify holding--spitballs--scuffed balls-- etc. but there's no chance of an ump throwing Bonds out of the game for steroid use... It's going to be interesting to see who makes it to the Hall with steroid allegations hanging over them-- Good subject... Brian Betza ================= Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 11:57:51 EDT To: geno.wagner@ntlworld.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question Honestly...I am sick of this argument... The national statistics say that 1 in every 7 people has some form of drug or alcohol addiciton. If that is the case then more than 3 or 4 past HOFers would need to be kicked out...Grover Alexander was an alcoholic (albeit to control his epilepsy), so was Waddell, so Billy Martin and probably Mantle. Ruth did drugs as did Cobb and Anson and probably Reggie Jackson. I would bet that future HOFers did as well. Leave them alone. And let us look at the so called performance enhancing drugs. Steroids may make you stronger but at what price. It has been shown often enough that Steroids affect your eyesight, hand-eye coordination, and can cause tremors, lapses in judgement, etc. They are not performance enhancing. The major leagues made a huge error by terming them this. The real reason that MLB does not want steroids is the adverse health effects and the huge dangers they pose children and student athletes. If they just said that they were illegal drugs (which most are) then they could have moved on. Hitting a baseball (and consequently hitting homeruns) has less to do with power than with bat speed and hand-eye coordination. Yes, you may get an extra few feet on the ball but how many do you miss because you had a tremor, tunnell-vision, etc. Give Orlando some rehab, keep Pete out of the Hall, and leave the "*" at PS Feeling very soapboxy today ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 17:34:20 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Housley" Subject: Re: HOF question All the postings regarding this issue have been very well-thought out & logical. Here's my two cents. First, Cepeda should stay in the Hall. I haven't seen anything to indicate his criminal activity occurred WHILE he was a player. Hall of Fame membership does not constitute sainthood; while in a perfect world all members elected to the HOF would lead uptanding, moral lives after their playing careers - we don't live in a perfect world. If we consider that a player retires at around age 40, and the average life span is in the 80's, every HOF who lived a long life would have to constantly look over his shoulder, wondering if he would be kicked out of the Hall for his future transgressions. My humble opinion is that these guys are voted into the HOF based on their on-field accomplishments - not lifetime accomplishments. Next, let me tackle the Rose question. This one is difficult for me, as I grew up in the Big Red Machine era & the Reds were - and are - my favorite team, and I loved watching Charlie Hustle. For the longest time I felt Rose was the victim of a witch-hunt or a frameup. Of course that hope was gradually eroded & then eventually smashed. Here's where my opinion will generate controversy: I believe Rose should be admitted as a player, based on what he accomplished as a player. His gambling occurred while he was a manager; and to split hairs, has it ever been shown he bet AGAINST his own team? Now, don't get me wrong, gambling on the outcome of a contest in which your team is a participant isn't right. I would NEVER allow him back in the game as a manager or in any position where he could affect the outcome of a game. My solution: allow him to be eligible for Hall admission, & if he's elected (as he should be, based solely on what he did as a player), there should be a very prominant mention on his plaque that he was banned for betting on games as a manager. As a person, Pete is a classic horse's ass. As a player, he was no angel, but personal character (or lack thereof) has never been a criteria for HOF admission (see Cobb, Ty - among many others.) I know that's not going to be a popular opinion, but allow me one other point here: until Rose was banned & it was obvious he would be elected, there was NO RULE prohibiting election to players banned from the game. To me, this is a clear example of an ex-post facto law - and ex-post facto laws are themselves illegal. Says so in a little document we call the Constitution. Of course ML & the HOF don't have to follow the Constitution - but really, they should, shoudn't they? Shoeless Joe is a tough case. He accepted money to throw the games, yet his performance during the 1919 Series doesn't seem to indicate any lack of effort (unlike Gandil, Risberg, Cicotte & Williams). After the Series he attempted to confess his involvement to Comiskey but was rebuffed. How are we then to judge his worthiness for HOF admission? Again, I go back to my argument that his ban from being placed on the HOF ballot - or being elected by the Veterans Committee - is an ex-post facto law violation. Does he belong based on his career prior to the 1919 Series? Absolutely. Should his participation in the fix, even if half-heartedly, serve to negate everything else he did as a player? Well, I'm not sure I have an answer to that. Perhaps he could also be elected with a mention on his plaque about his banishment. Or perhaps, in the case of Rose & Jackson (and perhaps McGwire in the future), they should have their own "black sheep" wing in Cooperstown. Regarding McGwire - well, yeah, in the Congressional hearings he stonewalled. And many of us suspect that he did more than andro during his career - but nothing has ever been proven that he took anything illegal, has it? Even if something does come to light that he took steroids - they were not banned from MLB at the time. So, unless the HOF pulls another Rose/Jackson ruling out of it's collective ass & says "Oh, yeah, um, steroids are illegal NOW. They weren't THEN, but we're gonna ban anyone who took them THEN anyway" - then, based on his 1998 season & career, he belongs. And sadly, and it pains me to say this, but so does Barry Bonds. (see "horse's ass" comment above). Turns out this rant/ramble was more like 2 bucks instead of 2 cents, but thanks for reading anyway! --- In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, "geno.wagner" > OBCers -- > So let's assume Orlando Cepeda gets put in the clink for drug > He has been in trouble for it before, so it's not a new thing for him. Does > the Hall of Fame kick him out? If not, how can they keep Pete Rose out? Or > Joe Jackson? What about Mark McGwire? > What do you think? > Personally, I say it leaves Cepeda unaffected in terms of the HOF. > other guys were in trouble for things they did during their playing days, so > that's a bit harder. With the steroids of today, lots of guys elected now > are going to be pointed at in the future for illegal drugs I would guess - > do they get kicked out after they go in? My personal feeling is to let Rose > and Jackson in, however, guys who cheat with performance enhancing > need to hit the street, unless they weren't illegal at the time... > Take Care, Geno ================= To: Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:39:06 -0400 From: "Bob Donaldson" Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question My two cents. Cepeda - I don't think you kick someone out for what happened after being elected. Besides, I don't think I'd not vote for someone for off field Rose - Out. He's shown no contrition and he's lied at every turn. He did not bet on the Reds to lose? Well if he bets on them to win Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, what does that say about how he's gonna manage on Thursday? Jackson - Out. Yes he had a high BA for the series. However, take a look at how he batted in games the White Sox lost vs. those they won. I believe he also had a number of questionable fielding plays. Please don't tell me Cobb was a racist, Ruth was a drunk etc. We are not electing saints. However, betting on BB and throwing games are such a crime against the integrity of the game that banishment from the game and the HOF is an appropriate penalty. McGwire et al. - See my answer to Cepeda. Once in, they are in forever. I think I'd wait a few years for all the evidence to appear before voting for any of them. Good question Geno. ================= Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:42:04 EDT To: obcbobd@comcast.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question i think i heard rose say recently that he bet the reds to win every game. not that i believe him necessarily, but one of the arguments against betting is that not betting on your team is as bad as betting on them. if he bet for them every day, i think that argument against him goes out the window. In a message dated 5/4/2007 9:38:44 AM Central Daylight Time, obcbobd@comcast.net writes: My two cents. Cepeda - I don't think you kick someone out for what happened after being elected. Besides, I don't think I'd not vote for someone for off field Rose - Out. He's shown no contrition and he's lied at every turn. He did not bet on the Reds to lose? Well if he bets on them to win Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, what does that say about how he's gonna manage on Thursday? Jackson - Out. Yes he had a high BA for the series. However, take a look at how he batted in games the White Sox lost vs. those they won. I believe he also had a number of questionable fielding plays. Please don't tell me Cobb was a racist, Ruth was a drunk etc. We are not electing saints. However, betting on BB and throwing games are such a crime against the integrity of the game that banishment from the game and the HOF is an appropriate penalty. McGwire et al. - See my answer to Cepeda. Once in, they are in forever. I think I'd wait a few years for all the evidence to appear before voting for any of them. Good question Geno. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 15:22:20 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "b_betza" Subject: Re: HOF question Have to disagree with your assessment of steroids. They allow the body to recover faster which allows for more intense and frequent training.. If the net effect of steroid use was zero why would highly paid athletes even consider their use? If they didn't work to enhance performance to some degree they wouldn't be used.... I'm by no means taking a pro-steroid stance-- there are serious health consequences to steroid use-it's illegal etc. but it's a risk some athletes are willing to take to get a small advantage. The small differences-- an extra 1/100 th of a second in speed.. and extra couple feet on a hit.. and a small bit of extra strength are what can separate a good athlete from a great one so while hitting a ball is not directly related to strength the use of steroids can improve performance. I was a competitive powerlifter from 1987-1997. I chose to compete drug free but many of my competitors chose another path. It was frustrating to train your body as hard and intelligently as possible and still not make progress as quickly as others who used steroids. That's where much of my feeling about widespread use in pro sports comes from. If a good number of competitors in a little known unpublicized sport like powerlifting (I'm willing to bet most of you don't even know the sport!) took all the risks and chose to use steroids for a chance to win a simple trophy how many would take the risk to make millions in pro-sports--I'm betting a lot more than most people think... Boy do I like good topics!! Brian Betza --- In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, Wite3@... wrote: > Honestly...I am sick of this argument... > The national statistics say that 1 in every 7 people has some form of drug > or alcohol addiciton. If that is the case then more than 3 or 4 past HOFers > would need to be kicked out...Grover Alexander was an alcoholic (albeit to > control his epilepsy), so was Waddell, so Billy Martin and probably Mantle. Ruth > did drugs as did Cobb and Anson and probably Reggie Jackson. I would bet that > future HOFers did as well. Leave them alone. > And let us look at the so called performance enhancing drugs. Steroids may > make you stronger but at what price. It has been shown often enough that > Steroids affect your eyesight, hand-eye coordination, and can cause tremors, > lapses in judgement, etc. They are not performance enhancing. The major leagues > made a huge error by terming them this. The real reason that MLB does not want > steroids is the adverse health effects and the huge dangers they pose children > and student athletes. If they just said that they were illegal drugs (which > most are) then they could have moved on. Hitting a baseball (and > hitting homeruns) has less to do with power than with bat speed and hand-eye > coordination. Yes, you may get an extra few feet on the ball but how many do > you miss because you had a tremor, tunnell-vision, etc. > Give Orlando some rehab, keep Pete out of the Hall, and leave the "*" at > home. > Joshua > PS Feeling very soapboxy today > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:29:51 EDT To: b_betza@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: biggies@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: HOF question Wow! This has been a great discussion. There are many well formed opinions and comments on this one and many of us no doubt have spent time with others on this topic in one way or another. It seems fairly universal that Cepeda's transgression or that of anyone's after their career in baseball and after they have been elected into the Hall should bare no reflection on their status there. Pete Rose. There are very few bigger Reds fans out there and he is my #2 all time favorite player. But he should never be allowed in the Hall. You can enjoy many of his experiences and momentos in the museum. But he should not be enshrined. Landis dictated that there be only one rule, one absolute posted in every clubhouse in MLB. Anyone involved in gambling will be banned from baseball. Not drinking, not drugs, not pistol whipping your wife or girlfriend, gambling. He did it. Giamati banned him and I for one am glad there is at least that much dignity in this continually tarnished game. Many forget or don't know that when Landis handed down his decisions in 1920 that baseball was really teetering. It had been dealt a heavy blow in 1877 with the Louisville Scandal as well as many other similar transgressions leading up to 1919. There were many who felt baseball was doomed when the papers reported the 1919 story. Many believe that Landis saved baseball with his strong arm sweeping actions. And many still feel that any compromise in his directive could tear apart that cloth and render baseball far less than it is. Pete must stay out. Lets also not forget that there have been acceptable compromises in the past. Mantle, Mays and Stienbrenner to name a few who have been excused from the sport and allowed back in. But none of them committed the strident sin of betting on baseball. Unlike 1919 the steroid issue will never have any closure or finality. There will be a giant asterisk over the years, I don't know, 1990 to 200? forever and we can do nothing about it. Our thirst for home runs our desire to see our team win and our ambivalence to the toxic effect of the money allowed everyone to ignore the obvious activities as people like Barry and Sammy changed before our eyes like so many transformers that our kids played with. I was in a bar when McGwire hit #60 and someone naively asked if he was "juiced." An ardent Cards fan whipped around and said "who cares?" And he was right. The comparison of "enhancement drugs" to drinking and lifestyle abuses doesn't make much sense. One helps the other hurts. What Ruth and Mantle and others like them did while partying all night makes their numbers even more impressive. It wasn't what you wanted your kids to be aware of though. But, steroids and the like. Well, you can call it anything you want, but it is cheating. Now. Now that it is against the rules it is cheating. It will remain a blurry issue for a long time. I hope the writers keep McGwire and Palmero and yes even Barry out because of it. And what a shame that is for them but at least it would put a moral stamp on the issue from some of baseball's viewpoint. Finally, I agree that the Hall of Fame should be about what a player did for baseball. But its not just players. Its managers and owners and umpires and women. As someone who has brought his children to the Hall 4 times including this past Thanksgiving, it really is a bit of a religious experience. Like most of you who have been, you go through the Hall after the museum. After you have bathed in the history. After you have triggered some of the greatest memories of your life. After you have told your son or daughter what Joe DiMaggio did and why it is so hard, then, you go in that hallowed Hall. It is always quiet. A mausoleum. A true shrine. You look and point with reverence at the people that represent the absolute best in the game. And you whisper that reverence because you want to share in its glow. At that moment I, at least, surely know that there must be a standard. I believe that the problems all stem from the money...................... that is for another day. Best to all, good trading, Bob Bannon ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 17:36:17 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "T.J. Valacak" Subject: Derby Availables As a fan of the ponies, I regularly look forward to the first Saturday in May. Although I won't be able to see the game live because our softball team has a few games tomorrow, I will be watching on tape delay (VCR).I have not put out too many availables lately. THe softball season and the upcoming birth of my first born have kept me quite busy. So, here's a few for the taking. For sppedy shipping, please include your address. I will try to hit as many claims as possible. Thanks 1960 - 32 228 298 320 360 383 393 1962 - 363 426 1967 - 25 178 256 272 1968 - 9 85 124 137 168 221 252 275 334 1971 - 455 1972 - 285 ================= Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 13:37:27 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: friar4@aol.com Subject: Epiphany addenda As I said in my last chapter, my love for baseball has caused me to struggle over this for quite some time; and a number of the installments that followed mine have resurrected some of the causes for that struggle. Nevertheless, I'm going to stick to my guns and try respectively to address some of the comments made. Neighbor Bob Bannon's most recent comments particularly spur me on to further comment. While I did feel the reverence Bob wrote of when I visited the Hall, I believe it was for the game itself and the institution of the Hall, not so much for individual players. I feel that when I think of baseball players, both the great ones and the also-rans, I think of a representation of society at large. They are not gods or even demi-gods and they are susceptible to the same foibles and temptations that confront all of us. Some were and are probably very virtuous in the way they dealt with that truth while others were probably as weak as many are in the general population. Should evaluation of that spectrum of virtue be part of the role of the baseball Hall of Fame? As a people, Americans like to think of themselves as generous and forgiving. Time and again in recent decades, academics and members of the medical professions have told us that alcoholism, drug addiction, and addictions to sex and gambling, among other addictions, are diseases. I have not heard of too many people who have not accepted those findings. Yet, despite those conclusions by people far more learned and informed than we are, we still seem to attempt to apply a different standard to athletes aspiring to be members of the Hall of Fame. Would we deny admittance to a cancer victim? Of course, you might say that a cancer victim had no choice when he contracted the dreaded disease; but the doctors might also tell us that there was also no choice for a person who fell into addiction to drugs, gambling, sex, etc. The human mind is as complex as human cells. Who are we to determine that, in one case, the ailment represents a character flaw and, in the other, a simple case of bad luck or genetic or environmental causation or disposition? It seems like that is what we are doing when we attempt to vicariously play the role of the Hall of Fame(and its voters), as a spiritual arbiters, in judging the likes of Pete Rose and others. To repeat what I wrote earlier, why not take the Hall out of this role while promoting it to an even higher calling? Keep selection simple. Base selection on demonstrated skills and resulting records, but raise the Hall to the level of academia in giving it full responsibility to research and tell the full story. In regard to Rose, for instance, the Hall would admit him along with all the evidence about what happened in his career. It would include the "hero worship" stuff, but it would also lay out all the evidence against Pete as a role model. If he did not like the academic / balanced approach, then, and only then, everything would be removed. You see, to me, there is a certain integrity of inclusion and continuity that the Hall needs to have in order for it to be the Hall. As with Rose, I do not like Barry Bonds and I don't condone what we think he has done; but there would seem to be an intellectual imbalance to have a Hall that includes Ruth and does not include Bonds. I don't think of the Hall as a reward for Bonds. That is not what it should be about. I think of the Hall as the shrine (not church) for the sport of baseball with all of its integrated achievements. I don't think any other sport works quite that way, but baseball does. To allow entry to those we deem as virtuous and deny entry to those we deem as lacking in virtue puts the emphasis on judgement of individuals (something I do not feel capable of doing) rather than emphasizing the glory of the game As to the comment about "who cares," I have to raise my hand on that one and say that I do. I do because of all that we have been considering in this wonderful series of opinions. To the best of my knowledge, I don't know of any serious charges about steroids being leveled at my beloved Sox yet; but I do remember that an interesting phone call came in to WFAN the spring after the Senate hearings. The caller commented on how thin David Ortiz looked when he arrived as spring training, the implication being that maybe he was physically diminished out of fear of discovery of something. I felt awful hearing that - not because I am a big Ortiz fan(although I am), but because I feared diminishment of what my team had accomplished as a team in 2004. In other words, it was an attack on the game itself that saddened me. To repeat, I do care about all of this. I want the cheating stopped and I want it all to go away. In a world that has many things that are ugly, baseball is too beautiful to ruin. To me, the Hall needs to represent that beauty and integrity, not by conducting witch hunts, but by consistently attempting to tell what is true about the game and to document changes in understanding about the truth when evidence dictates. The other half of the equation is that MLB and the player union has to police their ranks so that these aspersions do not have to be dealt with well after the fact when the evidence has dried up or been Sorry for the length of this. Bob Corvello ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:45:49 -0400 From: "Bob Donaldson" Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question >>i think i heard rose say recently that he bet the reds to win every game. Previously, Rose had said he NEVER bet on baseball. Frankly, I'm not sure we can believe anything he says. The Dowd report had plenty of evidence (bookie slips, phone records) to establish that he bet on some Reds games, not all. From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of smartalecx@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:42 AM To: obcbobd@comcast.net; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF question i think i heard rose say recently that he bet the reds to win every game. not that i believe him necessarily, but one of the arguments against betting is that not betting on your team is as bad as betting on them. if he bet for them every day, i think that argument against him goes out the window. In a message dated 5/4/2007 9:38:44 AM Central Daylight Time, obcbobd@comcast.net writes: My two cents. Cepeda - I don't think you kick someone out for what happened after being elected. Besides, I don't think I'd not vote for someone for off field Rose - Out. He's shown no contrition and he's lied at every turn. He did not bet on the Reds to lose? Well if he bets on them to win Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, what does that say about how he's gonna manage on Thursday? Jackson - Out. Yes he had a high BA for the series. However, take a look at how he batted in games the White Sox lost vs. those they won. I believe he also had a number of questionable fielding plays. Please don't tell me Cobb was a racist, Ruth was a drunk etc. We are not electing saints. However, betting on BB and throwing games are such a crime against the integrity of the game that banishment from the game and the HOF is an appropriate penalty. McGwire et al. - See my answer to Cepeda. Once in, they are in forever. I think I'd wait a few years for all the evidence to appear before voting for any of them. Good question Geno. See what's free at AOL.com . ================= Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 19:41:58 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "cjmdpi" Subject: SHOF? Having read all comments, it got me to thinking that perhaps the HOF should rename itself to the SHOF for (Subjective HOF or Sort of HOF). Obviously, there is a great degree of subjectivity that goes into who is "elected" into the HOF. Since the Hall hasn't "published" any Standards for Entrance, there are no Standards. Hence, you end up with memebers who seem "Good but not Great" and others who are nowhere to be found (Jackson and Rose). Some accept this as the beauty of the Hall (you never know who will get in). This seems to make the Hall more about non-baseball issues and less about talent. To say you're the HOF and not have the all time hit leader "in the building" seems peculiar. When you are banned from baseball it would seem that edict goes "from this day forward". It doesn't go retroactively, hence anything that player did up to that point stands in the Baseball recordbook. My suggestion: Have guidelines for peformance admission (300 wins, 1800 RBI's etc.) to eliminate any "subjective" exclusion. If the player (Bonds) doesn't get along with the press, it doesn't affect his ability to be recognized as ONE of the best at his trade(baseball). This should get me in the "Long Winded HOF"!!!! ================= Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 15:36:53 -0700 (PDT) To: friar4@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Chris Stufflestreet Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Epiphany addenda As always, a lucid, thoughtful response. I always feel somehow more intelligent by reading some of your random thoughts. The thing I find interesting is that while I can usually be counted on to jump waist-deep in these kinds of conversations, I've suddenly deicided I'm just going to sit on the bench this time. A few years ago I was hell-bent about the HOF and the way it represented the game. Of course, I was also claiming that Pete Rose should be let in as long as the evidence brought forth in the court of public opinion was conjecture and hearsay. Then Pete wrote his book and made me sorry I stood up for him all that time. The thing about the HOF is that -- despite what I've believed and what I've wished for it to mean -- it's a reflection of the best of the men who have been lucky enough to play the game. And as long as the owners allowed (knowingly or not) the game to become statistically gaudy because they realized that big hits led to more people in the stands, which led to more concessions, which meant a financial bonanza...then the HOF is going to have to let in some of the people who took advantage of that fact. And while the more idealistic, 15-years-younger version of myself would have been irate about this development, I'm actually becoming ambivalent after the events since the '94 strike. Because I'm beginning to realize that the men who play baseball aren't heroes. They shouldn't be held up as role models. And those of us who still love the game for what it was have no right to expect that they behave like pious choirboys; they're humans and are prone to the same vices, failures and disorders as the rest of us. Expecting them to be virtuous and of high moral fiber just because they happen to be skilled enough to earn millions of dollars a year to play a kid's game is ridiculous. You want heroes? Look at the men and women who rushed into the burning towers of the World Trade Center to save others. Look at the men and women who now risk their lives in very dangerous areas (by thier own conscious decision) overseas. The fact is, kids are going to learn more from their parents and teachers than by an athlete they watch on TV or in a game. In the case of my daughter, Melissa is going to learn how to handle herself based on how her mother and I handle situations and treat other people...not from some rapper or athlete. Whether I like it or not, I had to understand that from the time I noticed she was watching. I've been good and decent towards others, I haven't follwed my father's lead and slept around on my wife, I've tried to generally follow a straight and narrow path. It wasn't because that's what Don Mattingly would have done, but rather because it's what I want my daughter to think of when she gets old enough to set out onher own. Because whether I like it or not, I'm that little girl's role model. As the years go by, I've began to realize that if the HOF let in McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, hell even admitted cheaters like Canseco or Rose...it isn't going to affect my life in any way. And it isn't going to turn me away from the game. I've had a vested interest in the sport for 30 years and the current state of affairs isn't going to change that. Take care, --- friar4@aol.com wrote: > All, > As I said in my last chapter, my love for > baseball has caused me to > struggle over this for quite some time; and a > number of the installments that > followed mine have resurrected some of the causes > for that struggle. > Nevertheless, I'm going to stick to my guns and try > respectively to address some of > the comments made. Neighbor Bob Bannon's most > recent comments particularly > spur me on to further comment. > While I did feel the reverence Bob wrote of > when I visited the Hall, > I believe it was for the game itself and the > institution of the Hall, not so > much for individual players. I feel that when I > think of baseball players, > both the great ones and the also-rans, I think of a > representation of society > at large. They are not gods or even demi-gods and > they are susceptible to the > same foibles and temptations that confront all of > us. Some were and are > probably very virtuous in the way they dealt with > that truth while others were > probably as weak as many are in the general > population. Should evaluation of > that spectrum of virtue be part of the role of the > baseball Hall of Fame? > As a people, Americans like to think of > themselves as generous and > forgiving. Time and again in recent decades, > academics and members of the > medical professions have told us that alcoholism, > drug addiction, and addictions > to sex and gambling, among other addictions, are > diseases. I have not heard > of too many people who have not accepted those > findings. Yet, despite those > conclusions by people far more learned and informed > than we are, we still seem > to attempt to apply a different standard to > athletes aspiring to be members > of the Hall of Fame. Would we deny admittance to a > cancer victim? Of course, > you might say that a cancer victim had no choice > when he contracted the > dreaded disease; but the doctors might also tell us > that there was also no choice > for a person who fell into addiction to drugs, > gambling, sex, etc. The human > mind is as complex as human cells. Who are we to > determine that, in one case, > the ailment represents a character flaw and, in the > other, a simple case of > bad luck or genetic or environmental causation or > disposition? It seems like > that is what we are doing when we attempt to > vicariously play the role of the > Hall of Fame(and its voters), as a spiritual > arbiters, in judging the likes > of Pete Rose and others. > To repeat what I wrote earlier, why not > take the Hall out of this > role while promoting it to an even higher calling? > Keep selection simple. Base > selection on demonstrated skills and resulting > records, but raise the Hall to > the level of academia in giving it full > responsibility to research and tell > the full story. In regard to Rose, for instance, > the Hall would admit him > along with all the evidence about what happened in > his career. It would include > the "hero worship" stuff, but it would also lay out > all the evidence against > Pete as a role model. If he did not like the > academic / balanced approach, > then, and only then, everything would be removed. > You see, to me, there is a certain > integrity of inclusion and > continuity that the Hall needs to have in order for > it to be the Hall. As with > Rose, I do not like Barry Bonds and I don't condone > what we think he has done; > but there would seem to be an intellectual > imbalance to have a Hall that > includes Ruth and does not include Bonds. I don't > think of the Hall as a reward for > Bonds. That is not what it should be about. I think > of the Hall as the > shrine (not church) for the sport of baseball with > all of its integrated > achievements. I don't think any other sport works > quite that way, but baseball does. > To allow entry to those we deem as virtuous and > deny entry to those we deem as > lacking in virtue puts the emphasis on judgement of > individuals (something I > do not feel capable of doing) rather than > emphasizing the glory of the game > itself. > As to the comment about "who cares," I have > to raise my hand on that > one and say that I do. I do because of all that we > have been considering in > this wonderful series of opinions. To the best of > my knowledge, I don't know > of any serious charges about steroids being leveled > at my beloved Sox yet; > but I do remember that an interesting phone call > came in to WFAN the spring > after the Senate hearings. The caller commented on > how thin David Ortiz looked > when he arrived as spring training, the implication > being that maybe he was > physically diminished out of fear of discovery of > something. I felt awful > hearing that - not because I am a big Ortiz > fan(although I am), but because I > feared diminishment of what my team had > accomplished as a team in 2004. In other > words, it was an attack on the game itself that > saddened me. To repeat, I do > care about all of this. I want the cheating stopped > and I want it all to go > away. In a world that has many things that are > ugly, baseball is too beautiful > to ruin. To me, the Hall needs to represent that > beauty and integrity, not > by conducting witch hunts, but by consistently > attempting to tell what is true > about the game and to document changes in > understanding about the truth when > evidence dictates. The other half of the equation > is that MLB and the player > union has to police their ranks so that these > aspersions do not have to be > dealt with well after the fact when the evidence > has dried up or been > distorted. > Sorry for the length of this. > Bob Corvello > ************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ================= Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:37:19 EDT To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: crazy question hello crazy question does anyone in OBC live in Hawaii? Im not sure if anyone does, but i figured id throw out the uestion....let me know Rob "The FIREMAN" ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:48:25 EDT To: DaPatriot1@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: LUURSCJG@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] crazy question There is a guy who used to be in OBC has since gone inactive John Pugsley who is stationed out there. I dont have his email address eiher but maybe some one can get it if they are on he inactive list ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 15:42:04 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "b_betza" Subject: 52 Topps Pafko question... I understand why card #1 of the set in high grade is highly valued.. not many exist. I saw a VERY low grade Pafko (with basically a missing face) selling for a substantial sum-- I wondered to myself why would a low grade example of this card sell at a premium to the I came up with 2 possibilities--- 1) The excess wear and tear on card #1 has resulted in some being worn to the point of being discarded leaving a total shortage of the cards in circulation... 2) The high price on the high grade has skewed the "real" value of the low grade versions of the card-- (although a true value is what a buyer and seller agree on)and sellers price based on "high book value" of a card (which in this case is driven by the high grade that this card lacks!!) Any thoughts? Any guys want to share their Pafko experiences? Brian Betza ================= Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 13:32:07 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: site problems/written address list its about 12:30 pm CDT on saturday afternoon, and i cant succesfully pull up our directory, making wantlists unreachable. first, is anyone else having the same issue? second, can we put out an up to date word doc with the address list once in a while. that way, if the site is down, at least we have something we can use to cut and paste a wantlist address into. not sure this would work for those wantlists posted through the obc site if the site is down, but for all others (the majority?), we could still get obcac, can you please consider this? tnx, gm ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 13:33:25 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: go figure! of course, as soon as i send the email, the site comes back to life! still, the idea of a written list would be helpful. tnx, gm ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: DaPatriot1@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 21:36:31 +0000 From: talbot1@comcast.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] crazy question Hello Rob, John Pugsley use to be a part of OBC he entered in 2003, he left a few years back and does not collect cards anymore (at least that's the way it was the last time we spoke). From an older listing here is John's info: JOHN PUGSLEY obcpugs@yahoo.com P.O. Box 2203 Ewa Beach, HI 96706-0203 (808) 689-4273 Birthday: 7/2/60 http://johnpugsley.20m.com eBay: obcpugs, AIM: obcpugs I still send John a B-Day card and he usually responds with a nice email, but it's been since July since I've heard from him. To my knowledge ge is/was our only Hawaii connection. Hope that is helpful Rob - BE WELL!!! REGARDS --------------------- MARK -------------- Original message -------------- From: DaPatriot1@aol.com hello crazy question does anyone in OBC live in Hawaii? Im not sure if anyone does, but i figured id throw out the uestion....let me know Rob "The FIREMAN" Gioia See what's free at AOL.com. ================= To: b_betza@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 23:43:48 -0400 From: mikesportsfan@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... I have noticed this same issue on numerous occasions and believe your theory #2 is the reason why. It should not be that way, but many instances of card pricing do NOT make any sense. Mike Rich -----Original Message----- From: b_betza@yahoo.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:42 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... I understand why card #1 of the set in high grade is highly valued.. not many exist. I saw a VERY low grade Pafko (with basically a missing face) selling for a substantial sum-- I wondered to myself why would a low grade example of this card sell at a premium to the I came up with 2 possibilities--- 1) The excess wear and tear on card #1 has resulted in some being worn to the point of being discarded leaving a total shortage of the cards in circulation... 2) The high price on the high grade has skewed the "real" value of the low grade versions of the card-- (although a true value is what a buyer and seller agree on)and sellers price based on "high book value" of a card (which in this case is driven by the high grade that this card lacks!!) Any thoughts? Any guys want to share their Pafko experiences? Brian Betza AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ================= To: mikesportsfan@aol.com, b_betza@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 04:50:55 +0000 From: dodgergeo@comcast.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... I have owned three of these since I joined the gang. The first one I picked up at a Tri-Star show in S.F. with Rick Ellison - I paid $40 for it. It was actually a very nice card - the only major flaw was a tack hole in the top center. At the time I thought that the '52 Topps Dodger set was an impossible dream, so I sent it away to someone in the group. A year or so later, David Kolenda sent me one as a bookmark in a 1998 Standard Catalog big book - '52 Topps Dodgers still an impossible dream, so I sent it away to someone in the group. The last one I've owned is still in my collection. I paid $90 at last year's national in Anaheim. Of the three, this is the poorest example, but I'm glad to have it. I've now got three of the big four Dodgers in the '52 Topps set (Pafko, Campy, Pee Wee - missing the Jackie), so I know at some point I'll able to finish it off. -------------- Original message -------------- From: mikesportsfan@aol.com I have noticed this same issue on numerous occasions and believe your theory #2 is the reason why. It should not be that way, but many instances of card pricing do NOT make any sense. Mike Rich -----Original Message----- From: b_betza@yahoo.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:42 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... I understand why card #1 of the set in high grade is highly valued.. not many exist. I saw a VERY low grade Pafko (with basically a missing face) selling for a substantial sum-- I wondered to myself why would a low grade example of this card sell at a premium to the I came up with 2 possibilities--- 1) The excess wear and tear on card #1 has resulted in some being worn to the point of being discarded leaving a total shortage of the cards in circulation... 2) The high price on the high grade has skewed the "real" value of the low grade versions of the card-- (although a true value is what a buyer and seller agree on)and sellers price based on "high book value" of a card (which in this case is driven by the high grade that this card lacks!!) Any thoughts? Any guys want to share their Pafko experiences? Brian Betza AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ================= Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 06:59:52 EDT To: Mikesportsfan@aol.com, b_betza@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: biggies@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... Another question is, why does Dr. Buckett value the Red back version of the Pafko higher than the black back? Of the 80 cards printed with both backs this is the only one with different values. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 06:45:05 -0500 From: "George Vrechek" Subject: Lionel Carter Article FYI Lionel Carter has been making the news lately due to the sale of his collection. I wrote a story about Lionel and his collection a few years ago for SCD that is now on the library page of the OBC website thanks to Dan Austin's efforts. Carter's card collection is now with Mastro (or buyers who've paid $1.6 million to date) so I felt I could share the story. I updated the story to report that he no longer has any cards. George Vrechek ================= To: , Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 13:07:19 +0100 From: "geno.wagner" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Lionel Carter Article FYI OBCers -- I went back to reread George's article and started poking around and reading other stuff. We really do have some good content on the Library page andOBC Specials. I was looking at the old OBC Newsletters and came across Jim Montgomery's name. I know I asked before, but does anyone know what happened to Jim? For those of you who weren't around then, Jim was famous for sending out cards that were simply mind-boggling. They always came in these giant envelopes that said JAMO on the front. When a JAMO came through the 'ol mailslot, you hands would start shaking! I wish I kept better records, but I know he sent me a bunch of tobacco cards that about doubled my collection of pre-war at the time. Anybody else have any JAMO stories?? By the way, great article George! Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: George Vrechek To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:45 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lionel Carter Article FYI Lionel Carter has been making the news lately due to the sale of his collection. I wrote a story about Lionel and his collection a few years ago forSCD that is now on the library page of the OBC website thanks to Dan Austin's efforts. Carter's card collection is now with Mastro (or buyers who've paid $1.6 million to date) so I felt I could share the story. I updated thestory to report that he no longer has any cards. George Vrechek ================= To: "obc" Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:13:44 -0500 From: "ken goetsch" Subject: 1972 Milwaukee Bucks vs. Lakers dvd I was able to get a DVD of the game from Jan. 9 1972 game between the Lakers and Bucks played in Milwaukee......It was the game that broke the Lakers 33 game winning streak...Still the longest in the NBA. Players in the game a young Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain....... My brother burned off a bunch for me..... Anyone who would like 1....just send me your address ....to make things easier,.......and I will send 1 out, its pretty good...... Keith Jackson and Bill Russell are doing the game for ABC. Ken Goetsch-OBC ================= To: Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 13:04:15 -0400 From: Mac Wubben Subject: Help needed for a 58 Senators Team set Looking to put together a 1958 senators team set for a gift. This is what I still need. Happy to trade or buy. Let me know if you can help me out. Thanks! 1958 TOPPS - SENATORS15 Jim Lemon 31 Tex Clevenger 72 Bud Byerly 92 ClintCourtney 109 Herb Plews 124 Bobby Usher 137 Russ Kemmerer 156 Dick Hyde 173 Eddie Yost 188 Milt Bolling (photo actually Lou Berberet) 219 Camilo Pascual 239 Chuck Stobbs 274 Rocky Bridges 288 Harmon Killebrew 317 Albie Pearson 331 Pedro Ramos 356 Bob Malkmus 403 Steve Korcheck 455 Hal Griggs 458 Julio Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?localeen-us&sourcewlmailtagline ================= To: Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 20:06:14 +0100 From: "geno.wagner" Subject: Old school OBCers -- Am I just an old, fuddy-dutty, or does anybody else absolutely HATE the way players wear their pants these days? I can't stand that long-pants look! Basketball is much better for going away from the mini-shorts of the seventies, but I wish baseball would return to showing the socks... Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 15:44:08 EDT To: geno.wagner@ntlworld.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: friar4@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Old school Put me in the fuddy-dutty ranks too. I could not agree with you more. It all shows you about the power of fashion and conformity. As with so much of fashion, the long pants are an example of a copy-cat mentality, no matter how ugly the result may be. To me, they even look uncomfortable and not nearly as functional as the sox showing option. Anyway, as a former middle school teacher and administrator, I could give you dozens of other examples of ugly conformist fashions; but I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. It just always seems so obvious to me that some things just look awful. Tough getting old. Bob Corvello ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: mikesportsfan@aol.com, b_betza@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 23:41:44 +0000 From: talbot1@comcast.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... Well my story is the OBC story. Pafko has been on my list since I posted a want list for `52 Topps some 7 years ago. My beat up, trimmed and well loved card #1 came from our very own Mike Rich in a stack of cards we recently traded. It's a perfect OBC card from a great guy whose become my friend over the years. I may upgrade it sometime but won't be actively searching for it (I will be on the lookout for a black back) thanks to the kindness and generosity of one of our own. Thanks again Mike!!! REGARDS ------------------- MARK -------------- Original message -------------- From: mikesportsfan@aol.com I have noticed this same issue on numerous occasions and believe your theory #2 is the reason why. It should not be that way, but many instances of card pricing do NOT make any sense. Mike Rich -----Original Message----- From: b_betza@yahoo.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:42 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... I understand why card #1 of the set in high grade is highly valued.. not many exist. I saw a VERY low grade Pafko (with basically a missing face) selling for a substantial sum-- I wondered to myself why would a low grade example of this card sell at a premium to the I came up with 2 possibilities--- 1) The excess wear and tear on card #1 has resulted in some being worn to the point of being discarded leaving a total shortage of the cards in circulation... 2) The high price on the high grade has skewed the "real" value of the low grade versions of the card-- (although a true value is what a buyer and seller agree on)and sellers price based on "high book value" of a card (which in this case is driven by the high grade that this card lacks!!) Any thoughts? Any guys want to share their Pafko experiences? Brian Betza AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ================= Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 20:45:26 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: brockhattox@cs.com Subject: Pafko question I always thought Pafko and the other first and last cards in the old sets were more valuable because us kids used to put rubberbands around our cards, and these two cards had the most damage and dents... ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 08:51:29 -0600 From: "todd knowles" Subject: Re: Old School Geno, Bob, and all, I really hadn't given this much thought until I asked my son about it; he's always 'shown sock' when he plays, even though most of his teammates wear their pants long. He says he likes the 'old school' look. Attached is a picture of my favorite 'old school' pitcher. ================= Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:41:25 EDT To: dugouttraders@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: Great Story! Saw this on line today. Enjoy! gm Ballplayers take different approaches in dealing with the loud drunks sitting in the outfield cheap seats. _Josh Hamilton wins them over with his honesty_ (http://mlb.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/03/josh-hamilton-is-honest/) , while _Curtis Granderson passes the time looking for funny signs_ (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2857631&name=granderson_curtis) . Toronto's Vernon Wells, though, actually fires back. From the _Toronto Sun_ (http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2007/05/06/4157856-sun.html) via _Home Run Derby_ (http://homerderby.com/archives/446) comes this funny story about a group of hecklers in Cleveland: : "It was the usual stuff," Wells said yesterday. "Stuff like 'You suck' or 'You like men'. "One guy was also yelling at me to give him a ball. He said that Torii Hunter (of the Twins) had given him a ball." So Wells decided to do something. Between innings he got a new ball and wrote a message to the fan, then when he went back on the field the next inning he tossed it to him. The message? "Here's your ball, now please tell me what gas station you work at so I can come and yell at you when you're working. Please sit down, shut up and enjoy the game. From your favorite centre fielder, Vernon Wells." Not surprisingly, it worked: the fans went from obnoxious hecklers to Wells' personal cheering section just like that. It's an awesome strategy, since most of the time all the hecklers really want is to get some kind of reaction out of a player. But will it work now that everyone knows about this? Seems to me that he might be setting himself up for an endless stream of abuse from fans who suddenly feel entitled to some free swag. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 19:02:54 EDT To: tknowles1@bresnan.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: LUURSCJG@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Old School Now there's a ball player ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 00:00:38 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "jimbo777777" Subject: Hilltown Hit Thanks going out tonight to Chuck Paris for a '55 Bowman of Al Lopez - my first high number of that set. Thanks Chuck! ================= To: "trading bases" , Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 21:22:54 -0400 From: "ant" Subject: 1976 star trek cards Hello All, I am starting a set and need some hits vg up condition: I do have a few dupes II am organizing Anthony Arbeeny ================= Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 17:57:22 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Linda" Subject: Re: 1976 star trek cards-Are there any cards of Mr. Sulu? < In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, "ant" wrote: Hello All, I am starting a set and need some hits vg up condition: I do have a few dupes II am organizing Anthony Arbeeny> I am working on this set too.I only have a few cards from the set and no dups unfortunately.I look for cards from this set on ebay frequently and i have discovered something very odd about this set. I haven't seen a single card yet with Mr. Sulu (George Takei).Ant, do you have any cards that picture Mr. Sulu?I would sure like to know if he is on ANY of the cards in this set. This is a very frustrating set to work on because only mint condition cards which are expensive seem to show up for sale at shows or on ebay.Cards from this set which are always in mint condition sell for $5 up at shows or even more on ebay. I would like to find lower grade creased G condition cards for 25 cents each or less.If anyone finds any of these 1976 Star Trek cards at a show for 25 cents or less please pick them up for me. Also searching for any Mars Attacks 1962 cards for $1 or less.Everytime i see them at shows they are $10 up and to me they are grossly overpriced for a non sports obscure oddball set. Also the cards in the set are too wierd and gross to appeal to many collectors so if demand for the cards must be less the cards shouldn't be over $1 each.I doubt this is a very popular set and dealers are just price gouging asking $10 for these cards- Linda ================= To: "obc rambling" , Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:04:51 -0400 From: "ant" Subject: Harlem Globe Trotters Hello All, I just got some dupes to help hit my 71 set. They are just a great looking set. I need: 1972 harlem globetrotter from fleer #2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10,11,12,22,23,24,25, ,31,32,45,46,47,48,49,54,55,59,60,61,62,80,81 I have in vg tex+ condition dupes Anthony Arbeeny ================= Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:07:49 EDT To: talbot1@comcast.net, b_betza@yahoo.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: mikesportsfan@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... I only remember it as trimmed. I do not remember it as beat up. Got to love those cards that were trimmed to fit in pockets or for some other reason. The one Mark got was because I upgraded it last year. I had picked up the trimmed one about 30 years ago from a dealer that had a stack of beat up 1952s for about $.35 each or 3/$1. Too bad he did not have a Mantle or high numbers. Mike Rich See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 02:56:21 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "mikesportsfan" Subject: Toronto report This past weekend was the semi-annual Toronto show. I try not to go with high expectations, as I go every 6 months and have looked through most dealers stuff multiple times. The last show, was one of my best ever, highlighted by the 52 Topps Mantle and Mathews. This show was NOT nearly as successful, but there were some pleasant surprises. Many of us make jokes about the number of sets on my lists. However, this comes in handy. I went to Toronto needing 33 cards to finish 12 Canadian issued sets. I picked up 10 of the 33, but only finished 2 sets. Therefore, I now need 23 cards to complete 10 more sets. Meanwhile, I ended up with close to 80 hits for the weekend, but they covered close to 40 sets. Many guys in the group would never have 40 sets on their lists. I got type card hits to 1921-30 Major League Ball Die Cuts - Brooklyn Robins #14 Carey. My 2005 SCD does not even list this card in the set. Can anyone verify it belongs to that set? The other type card was the most expensive buy of the weekend: 1951 Topps Connie Mack All Star of Lou Gehrig, in quite poor condition. I also got my first 2 1957 Swift Meats. They were not in card form, but had been punched out and assembled. Truly neat looking. The 2 I got were Logan and Aaron. Under my definition, getting 2 means I am working on the set. I also got my 2nd 1958 Bond Bread. So 2 sets finished and 2 sets I am now working on. The 2 sets finished were 1967 OPC BB. This almost caused a dilemma as I picked up a Stargell, which Steve needs to finish his set. Later I got card #1 to finish my set and solve my dilemma about possibly sending the Stargell to Steve. Sorry, but I am not breaking my set for you. The other set was a 1959-1960 Topps Hockey. I picked up 2 of the last 5 1968 OPC BB I needed, however, I saw a Bert Campaneris thatI need. Dealer informed me he was a star and gets triple a common. Even though I only need 3 more to finish the set, I refused to pay $10 for a $3 card. By Sunday, he was willing not come down to $5, but I held my ground at $3 and did NOT buy it. Similarly I found teh last 1951-52 Laval Dairy Hockey card I need to complete my set. However, the dealer wanted $13 for it. I normally paid 44 - $5 for my commons. He came down to $10 and again I walked. Could have finished a set. With only 80 hits spread over 40 sets, the most hits were 7 to the 1949-66 Exhibits which was part of possibly the best buy of the weekend. I got 6 Hires, inclluding a creased Drysdale, 8 beautiful condition Exhibits, including Mantle, Clemente, Mays, Aaron, etc. and a complete set of 1981 MSA Peter Pan/Sunbeam discs all for $60. Also got 7 of the last 20 1961 Topps stamps I needed. Mainly the stars, so now I only need the commons. Sets that moved within 10 of completion include 1950 Bowman with the pickup of Snider. Picked up a pair of 1962 Post Canadian shortprints, a 4 pack of low grade Berk Ross highlighted by Musial, and a gorgeous 1933 WWG english highnumber version of Moe Berg (this is the 4th most expensive card in the set). Only got 3 prewar hockey and about 8 other prewar BB. If not for all the sets I am willing to buy cards for, there would not have been much picked up this weekend. As evidenced by the cards I did NOT buy, that I needed, I will not just pay whatever is needed to get the cards I want. I can spend my money on other sets and make progress there. I also bought some complete sets, including a 1960? Red Sox Team photo pack with the Splinter and in honor of Linda an Origin Of BB Somehow, I did not see Carlos Alcazar there on Saturday. I did see his buddy Wes on Sunday. I did another swap on Friday with potential OBCer Gord Ellis. While the show was not as good as last November's it was still a successful show. Next Toronto show is Nov. 9 -11 for anyone that wants to join me. Mike Rich ================= To: Mikesportsfan@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 02:36:30 +0000 From: talbot1@comcast.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 52 Topps Pafko question... The card is in perfect OBC condition and if I am fortunate enough to live to 82 it will be in my possession for the next 30 years. Oh the history of the card I will share with a grandchild - God willing. REGARDS --------------- MARK -------------- Original message -------------- From: Mikesportsfan@aol.com I only remember it as trimmed. I do not remember it as beat up. Got to love those cards that were trimmed to fit in pockets or for some other reason. The one Mark got was because I upgraded it last year. I had picked up the trimmed one about 30 years ago from a dealer that had a stack of beat up 1952s for about $.35 each or 3/$1. Too bad he did not have a Mantle or high numbers. Mike Rich See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: "todd knowles" , Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:39:28 -0500 From: "Bill Malson" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Old School Its been a few years - but I had an "old school" pitcher too. I'd give a lot to go back and see him again..... ----- Original Message ----- From: todd knowles To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Old School Geno, Bob, and all, I really hadn't given this much thought until I asked my son about it; he's always 'shown sock' when he plays, even though most of his teammates wear their pants long. He says he likes the 'old school' look. Attached is a picture of my favorite 'old school' pitcher. ================= To: , Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 20:46:57 -0700 From: "Dave Fallen" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: 1976 star trek cards-Are there any cards of Mr. Sulu? I don't have any of these cards but I've gone over the check list for them.In the main set of 88 cards, cards 2 through 7 are Kirk, McCoy, Spock, Scott, Uhura, and Ceckov. Sulu is not listed. Also in the 22 stickers Kirk,Spock, McCoy, Scott, Uhura, and Checkov are mentioned but again no Sulu. It sure looks like Sulu is not in this set. I would guess that Topps couldn't come to contract terms with him. Looks like a neat set, I'll keep my eyes open. -Dave Fallen ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: 1976 star trek cards-Are there any cards of Mr. < In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, "ant" wrote: Hello All, I am starting a set and need some hits vg up condition: I do have a few dupes II am organizing Anthony Arbeeny> I am working on this set too.I only have a few cards from the set and no dups unfortunately.I look for cards from this set on ebay frequently and i have discovered something very odd about this set. I haven't seen a single card yet with Mr. Sulu (George Takei).Ant, do you have any cards that picture Mr. Sulu?I would sure like to know if he is on ANY of the cards in this set. This is a very frustrating set to work on because only mint condition cards which are expensive seem to show up for sale at shows or on ebay.Cards from this set which are always in mint condition sell for $5 up at shows or even more on ebay. I would like to find lower grade creased G condition cards for 25 cents each or less.If anyone finds any of these 1976 Star Trek cards at a show for 25 cents or less please pick them up for me. Also searching for any Mars Attacks 1962 cards for $1 or less.Everytime i see them at shows they are $10 up and to me they are grossly overpriced for a non sports obscure oddball set. Also the cards in the set are too wierd and gross to appeal to many collectors so if demand for the cards must be less the cards shouldn't be over $1 each.I doubt this is a very popular set and dealers are just price gouging asking $10 for these cards- Linda No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/793 - Release Date: 5/7/2007 2:55 ================= Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 04:53:23 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "T.J. Valacak" Subject: It's a boy! I am very proud to announce the birth of our first baby, Anton Joseph. He is named after our grandfathers. Although he arrived almost five weeks early, he is doing just fine. He weighed in at 6lbs 12 ounces, and is 20 inches long. It was a long day that started at 3:30 this morning, but like I said, a very happy finish. Mom and baby have to stay in the hospital for a few days. Because Anton did not make it to the 36 week mark, they have to monitor him for a few days. Looks like I will be heading out to the store tomorrow to buy Anton his first pack of 2007 Topps baseball cards. Thanks to all who have emailed in their support. ================= Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:29:25 -0400 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Today's Transactions Schott, E (BAL) - 15 day DL retro to May 3 (hard drive problems) Until Schott is fully back on his feet, he can be reached via Etch-A-Sketch or carrier pigeon. ================= Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 21:49:56 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Linda" Subject: Grab bag of "beards" This morning when i visited one of my local card shops to check out the weekly bid board there was another collector there familiar to me.This guy occasionally brings in a bag with damaged cards and allows all present to pick out a card from the bag.Today he announced all the cards in the bag were stars with beards drawn on them in ink. I guess this collector likes to break the boredom in the card shop by bringing in these bags of cards and offering to give them away by picking one from the bag.Last month it was trimmed cards. When it was my turn i reached in and the card i pulled out was a 1960 topps Duke Snider. I observed other star cards being pulled by other collectors and each time a card was pulled i was saddened the card had to have a beard drawn on the player in ink. I saw a 61 Stan Musial,65 Sandy Koufax( i didn't mind seeing that card defaced though),56 Harmon Killebrew,1967 Yaz,62 Mays,57 Gil Hodges and others... but then one card had me really excited and wishing i had pulled it- a 54 Bowman Ted Williams! What a shame! Somebody drew a beard on the card in blue ball point ink. Everyone immediately offered to buy the card but the new owner refused to sell. That is the first time in all my years of collecting i have seen that ================= Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 02:48:10 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Linda" Subject: Re: Grab bag of "beards"-Duke Snider with beard 60 topps available I would like to make the 60 topps #493 Duke Snider with beard drawn on available to the group.It's a good space filler of a great Dodgers star. Also available-another 60 topps of a Dodger Star-#295 Gil Hodges but this time no drawn on beard. And from a previous available of mine is a card no one claimed-another 60 topps-# 132 Dodgers "Big Man" rookie card Please include name and address with requests- Linda ================= To: Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 07:50:13 +0100 From: "geno.wagner" Subject: T205 Lot OBCers -- Here's a lot that belongs in OBC: http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-T205-BASEBALL-CARDS-X-17-HOFers-MINOR-LEAGUER_W0QQitemZ170108854101QQihZ007QQcategoryZ44821QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 01:03:29 -0700 (PDT) To: "geno.wagner" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Big Al Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T205 Lot Nice OBC cards. Since I know so much about T206, it says they are 1911, but they look like different series/years. Stop laughing and help a Pre-war n00b out. Big Al in Seattle "geno.wagner" wrote: OBCers -- Here's a lot that belongs in OBC: http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-T205-BASEBALL-CARDS-X-17-HOFers-MINOR-LEAGUER_W0QQitemZ170108854101QQihZ007QQcategoryZ44821QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Take Care, Geno Yahoo! Groups Links ================= To: Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 17:06:58 +0100 From: "geno.wagner" Subject: 1981 Scratchoffs OBCers -- I think Ken is the only guy that collects these cards (although I have a set around here somewhere). I thought this was hilarious - somebody actually paid about $20 for a graded Rose that isn't even a whole panel! Who pays to get these graded, and then who would actually bid that much?!? Obviously the answer is "at least one" to the former question, and "at least two" to the latter...I'd sell my whole set for half that price - shipping included! Unbelievable what that plastic tomb does... http://cgi.ebay.com/1981-TOPPS-SCRATCH-OFF-62-PETE-ROSE-PSA-9-LOW-POP_W0QQitemZ230123325602QQihZ013QQcategoryZ55928QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Take Care, Geno ================= To: "'geno.wagner'" , Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 11:53:04 -0700 From: "Grant" Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] 1981 Scratchoffs Geno, in this case, it=92s a craving to have the very best Master Set going for Pete Rose=85.on a hunch, I went to the PSA site and looked up who was putting together a master set of Rose=85..sure enuff, the guy who over paid for that card is the #1 guy listed=85=85=85=85.having a big ego can expensive=85.. P.T. Barnum was right. -----Original Message----- From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of geno.wagner Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 9:07 AM To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] 1981 Scratchoffs OBCers -- I think Ken is the only guy that collects these cards (although I have a around here somewhere). I thought this was hilarious - somebody actually paid about $20 for a graded Rose that isn't even a whole panel! Who pays get these graded, and then who would actually bid that much?!? Obviously the answer is "at least one" to the former question, and "at least two" the latter...I'd sell my whole set for half that price - shipping Unbelievable what that plastic tomb does... "http://cgi.ebay.com/1981-TOPPS-SCRATCH-OFF-62-PETE-ROSE-PSA-9-LOW-POP_W ZViewItem"http://cgi.ebay.-com/1981--TOPPS-SCRATCH--OFF-62-PETE--ROSE-PS Take Care, Geno No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: 5/11/2007 7:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: 5/11/2007 7:34 PM ================= Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 19:13:48 -0400 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sean McGowan Subject: '52 Jackie Robinson crazieness! Ok, look at what a graded card costs you... I lost this auction, and was a little angry that my $180 bid didn't win it.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320106694511&rd=1&rd=1 But then, just a few days later I won this one for $10 more. The seller has a high pos feedback and the card appears genuine in every way (particularly now that I have it in my hand) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270114140838&rd=1&rd=1 I'll take the ungraded one, thankyou, unless it is something like a '63 Rose where there are tons of really good fakes. The old rule about being patient on ebay holds true again. ================= Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 21:33:17 -0700 (PDT) To: obc ramblings From: Matthew Subject: 1944 Yankee stamps available An interesting eBay lot left me with several extra 1944 Yankee Stamps. Let me know if you're interested in any of them! Donald, Murphy, Turner, O'Dougherty, Stirnweiss, Johnson, Bruer, Borowy, Hemsley Checklist here: http://www.oldbaseball.com/MegaChecklists/ChecklistSet.php?setname=Yankees~Stamps&year=1944 ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@lists.vintagecardtraders.com Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:16:17 -0400 From: jdelott@aol.com Subject: card software I lost my card inventory, which took three years to catalogue, about 3 years ago after a computer crash. I'm considering trying again. Is there a simple and reliable software program for baseball cards, preferably a free one? My old program used a plain checklist system, yet the ones I found on the internet do not. Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ================= To: "obc" Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 16:17:18 -0500 From: "ken goetsch" Subject: Mothers day birth rememberences..................... I was just reading T.j.'s new event for his first baby................... Brings back...memories for me............ This Oct. it will be 32 years for me............I am so lucky to have 3 healthy I remember my second child......................Kate,,,,,,, who was born May 1982.............. during the Milwaukee Bucks playoff run.......... The Bucks played in Boston on a Wed. night..... then in ........MilwaukeeFriday night...mother to be said to me..... if I go in "labor on Friday.......your not going to the game........"oh ya...... get a grip" [at thattime I was a 8 year season ticket holder]................she has a Dr.'s........appoint. on that thurs......... all ready 1 week late......They were going to induce labor so she can have the baby on Thurs.....night...........YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS......................[Marv Albert impression inserted here]..... You guessed it.......Kate born on a Thursday night.......Ken in Attendance at the Friday night game.. witnessing a big Bucks victory..........All is well to this day............ I would be interested in other "stories"......of birth events..................everybody has a "STORY'....... Ken Goetsch ================= To: Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:43:08 -0400 From: "Chuck Paris" Subject: Bill Ashton Guys: I recently completed a couple of trades with Bill Ashton. He's a real nice guy and the trades went off without a hitch. I think he may be or have contacted some of you so don't hesitate at all if he does!! Chuck ================= Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:37:07 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Linda" Subject: Rare Jackie Robinson card? For $10 starting bid The whole set this card came from i have won on ebay for $5- check out ebay # 140116532240.Read the item description just above the picture of the card about half way down the listing.It is really good.-Linda http://tinyurl.com/yvamsx ================= Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 05:24:36 +0100 (BST) To: obc ramblings From: Matthew Subject: Card ID question Hi all, An eBay lot supplied two cards unknown to me. I think the Collins is W590--it's hard to tell with the trimming. The other is obviously a game card, but does anyone know which game? Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ================= Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:42:10 -0700 (PDT) To: obc ramblings From: Matthew Subject: Availables People jumped on the Yankees stamps and they're all gone. Here's an assorted follow-up lot that stretches back to pre-war. Be low-grade-ready and include your address for priority claiming! 1922 American Caramel E122 - Steve O'Neill (trimmed to the picture and name) 1934 Diamond Stars - 82 Babich (skinned, no back) 1941 Double Play - 10 Werber (no #9) 1950 Bowman - 46 (skinned), 56 (50% paper loss on back), 73 (50% paper loss on back), 141 (60% paper loss on back), 180 (50% residue on back), 230 (back covered with paste), 243 (back mostly covered with paste) Tattoo Orbit reprint (year?) - Foxx (A's) ____________________________________________________________________________________Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ================= Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:36:33 EDT To: kgoetsch@gdinet.com From: larrygers@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Mothers day birth rememberences..................... My first child, Elizabeth, was born June 28, 1976. Nancy's water broke in the middle of the nite & she went into labor. I drove her to the hospital in Cincy about 30 miles away. She was in labor all the next day. Fetal distressed occurred because Nancy would not dilate so they decided to take the baby via C-section. All went well from there. It got to be late that evening when I decided to head for home about midnight. It was very dark & pouring rain. The road I was traveling on away from the hospital had a concrete divider. I came up to the intersection where I was to turn left. There was normally street lights but apparently the storm had knocked out the electricity. Not being real familiar with the area I turned a little too soon. I flattened both tires on the left side of the car by driving over the concrete divider. Making matters even worse the road I was on was a steep hill & with little berm. Needless to say I was not carrying two spare tires. It was after midnight & everything in the area is I walked in the down pour about a half mile to a Waffle House. They are always open. A patron was kind enough to run me to a gas station he worked at, where I was able to buy a couple of tires. He was kind but they were the most expensive tires I had ever bought. Being young & making about 10K per year I always bought used tires or retreads. He then drove his tow truck back to the mishap, moved the front right tire to the left rear & then towed my car back to his garage where he finished the Exhausted I made it home with no further mishaps. Nancy & Elizabeth were blissfully unaware of my adventure. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:01:36 -0400 (EDT) To: From: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Mothers day birth rememberences..................... This thread brings back great memories that we laugh about all the time. My oldest son, Eric, was born while we were living in Pittsburgh. I was working tons as a fellow, and came home on the night of April 13, 1998 about 4 pm after a 30+ hour shift. I told me wife Terri (who was due in about a week) I was going to lay down for an hour, but to wake me up because we had Pirates tickets that night (not hard to get in 1998). She woke me up at 5 pm, and told me her water broke. Now, my wife isn't one to miss a baseball game, so she called her OB, who told her that there was no rush, and to come in when the contractions got a bit closer together. Since Three Rivers Stadium was on the way to the hospital, we decided to go to the game, and when the contractions got closer together, we would leave. I kept score (as I always do), but in this case, I added a new column that timed Terri's contractions based on the outfield scoreboard clock. We left in the 8th inning with the Bucco's on their way to losing 7-2 to the Marlins(to beat the traffic) and got to the hospital soon after, where Eric was born about 6 hours later. Maybe that is why he is the son who loves baseball the most???? > My first child, Elizabeth, was born June 28, 1976. > Nancy's water broke in the middle of the nite & she went into labor. I > drove her to the hospital in Cincy about 30 miles away. > She was in labor all the next day. Fetal distressed occurred > because Nancy would not dilate so they decided to take > the baby via C-section. All went well from there. It got to be > late that evening when I decided to head for home about midnight. It was > very dark & pouring rain. The road I was traveling on away from the > hospital had a concrete divider. I came up to the intersection where I > was to turn left. There was normally street lights but apparently the > storm had knocked out the electricity. Not being real familiar with the > area I turned a little too soon. I flattened both tires on the left side > of the car by driving over the concrete divider. Making matters even > worse the road I was on was a steep hill & with little berm. Needless to > say I was not carrying two spare tires. It was after midnight & everything > in the area is closed. > I walked in the down pour about a half mile to a Waffle House. > They are always open. A patron was kind enough to run me to a gas station > he worked at, where I was able to buy a couple of tires. He was kind but > they were the most expensive tires I had ever bought. Being young & > making about 10K per year I always bought used tires or retreads. He > then drove his tow truck back to the mishap, moved the front right tire > to the > left rear & then towed my car back to his garage where he finished the > repairs. > Exhausted I made it home with no further mishaps. Nancy & Elizabeth > were blissfully unaware of my adventure. > Gersh > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:07:59 EDT To: dugouttraders@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: puffy mailing - a costly dilemna i am sure you all know that rate increases went into effect today. this, is addiotn to sorting machines that will destroy thicker envelopes causes a real problem. in order to avoid having a regular envelope destroyed, puffies make the most sense. the cost of mailing a puffy that is less than one ounce more than doubled today, going from 52 cents to $1.13. anything heavier does not increase as much as it once did, but you are starting at a higher number. the same is true for oversized flats. expect to see this reflected in eBay rates as well. bottom line, aside from inflating vintage card prices, these changes just made this hobby a lot more expensive! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:02:15 -0400 From: "Chuck Paris" Subject: New pre-war cards for trade I've added a few interesting cards to my list of pre-war tradables. They include an Old Judge, a 1923 Fleer, some 1915 Cracker Jacks and some 1935 Goudeys. Below is a link...... http://home.comcast.net/~chuckparis/t206dups.html My main interest remains additional T206 back versions in my quest to hit the 1000 mark. ================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 01:34:44 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "b_betza" Subject: Re: Mothers day birth rememberences..................... Mine is not an actual birthday memory but since both of my daughters were born on May 20th ( in 1997 and in 2002-- 5 years apart to the day) it's a sports memory of those first few weeks that they both have in common that I'll always remember. I would always try to take the baby out to the living room in the wee hours for a nap on Dad while Mom caught up on her sleep... I'm not much of a hockey fan but I must have watched every playoff and Stanley Cup game on replay (what else is on at 1:30 AM!!--T.J you might be best equipped to answer!!).... 1997 Red Wings over Flyers... 2002 Red Wings over Carolina....try cheering while making no noise and having a small baby asleep on your chest!! Maybe another Betza is what the Red Wings need this year (sorry not a chance!!) Brian Betza --- In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > This thread brings back great memories that we laugh about all the time. My > oldest son, Eric, was born while we were living in Pittsburgh. I was working > tons as a fellow, and came home on the night of April 13, 1998 about 4 pm > after a 30+ hour shift. I told me wife Terri (who was due in about a week) I > was going to lay down for an hour, but to wake me up because we had > tickets that night (not hard to get in 1998). She woke me up at 5 pm, and > told me her water broke. > Now, my wife isn't one to miss a baseball game, so she called her OB, who > told her that there was no rush, and to come in when the contractions got a > bit closer together. Since Three Rivers Stadium was on the way to > hospital, we decided to go to the game, and when the contractions got closer > together, we would leave. > I kept score (as I always do), but in this case, I added a new column that > timed Terri's contractions based on the outfield scoreboard clock. We left > in the 8th inning with the Bucco's on their way to losing 7-2 to the > Marlins(to beat the traffic) and got to the hospital soon after, where Eric > was born about 6 hours later. > Maybe that is why he is the son who loves baseball the most???? > Neal > > My first child, Elizabeth, was born June 28, 1976. > > Nancy's water broke in the middle of the nite & she went into labor. I > > drove her to the hospital in Cincy about 30 miles away. > > She was in labor all the next day. Fetal distressed occurred > > because Nancy would not dilate so they decided to take > > the baby via C-section. All went well from there. It got to be > > late that evening when I decided to head for home about midnight. It was > > very dark & pouring rain. The road I was traveling on away from > > hospital had a concrete divider. I came up to the intersection where I > > was to turn left. There was normally street lights but apparently the > > storm had knocked out the electricity. Not being real familiar with the > > area I turned a little too soon. I flattened both tires on the left side > > of the car by driving over the concrete divider. Making matters > > worse the road I was on was a steep hill & with little berm. Needless to > > say I was not carrying two spare tires. It was after midnight & > > in the area is closed. > > I walked in the down pour about a half mile to a Waffle House. > > They are always open. A patron was kind enough to run me to a gas station > > he worked at, where I was able to buy a couple of tires. He was kind but > > they were the most expensive tires I had ever bought. Being young > > making about 10K per year I always bought used tires or retreads. He > > then drove his tow truck back to the mishap, moved the front right tire > > to the > > left rear & then towed my car back to his garage where he finished the > > repairs. > > Exhausted I made it home with no further mishaps. Nancy & > > were blissfully unaware of my adventure. > > > > Gersh > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > > http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 04:48:22 -0700 (PDT) To: obc ramblings From: Matthew Subject: OBC grade strip card and V61 lots on eBay Found this lot of strip cards with HOFers: ($10 bid at the moment) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220110613577&rd=1&rd=1 Also this lot of Neilson's V61s: ($13 BIN) http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Diff-c1921-V61-NIELSONS-CHOCOLATES-Baseball-Cards_W0QQitemZ180117588504QQihZ008QQcategoryZ31719QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ____________________________________________________________________________________You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html ================= Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:34:09 EDT To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: Detroit Area? Hello all, after my surgery tomorrow ,If i am feeling well I am debating on taking the trip Detroit to go to the Redwings Ducks game 5, I will be leaving very early on Saturday morning, so if its an 1 hour trip i figure i would get to Detroit around 5 or 6pm....I was wondering who lives in the area and would like to get together...I know i will be Meeting Mike Rich who extended a great offer to me and I will most likely take him up on his offer, but who else lives in the area? Let me know if we can do alittle OBC gathering in ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:44:46 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Linda" Subject: Rare 1968 set of BB greats on ebay There is a rare set from 1968 called "All Time Baseball Team Set" on ebay right now. ebay # 230130682528 http://tinyurl.com/2k856j I wonder if even "Mighty Mike"( King of the Oddballs is getting kinda old) Rich even has this set- Linda ================= To: Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 22:03:55 -0500 From: "Ed Schott" Subject: brand new dell After 6 years the old hard drive (my computer, for all you gutter minds : )) has finally wiffed. So my lovely wife bought us a brand new one. thanks hunny Anyway I should be back in business within a few days. ================= Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:25:52 -0400 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Are these 1939 PB high numbers real? Maybe its the scan but the color doesn't look quite right on these. What do you think? Any answers I can get before the items close at 12:00 EST, Thursday are appreciated. 1939 Play Ball Bill Trotter Browns High Number Item number: 290114984898 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290114984898&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:12 1939 Play Ball Pete Coscarart Dodgers High Number Item number: 290114985637 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290114985637 ================= Date: 17 May 2007 15:57:52 -0000 To: "Steve Rittenberg" , From: "obcjohn@knology.net" Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** [OBC-Ramblings] Are these 1939 PB high numbers real? They look o.k. to me. I think they're just a bit yellowed with age, probably based on where and how they were kept. ------------- Original message follows ------------- Maybe its the scan but the color doesn't look quite right on these. What do you think? Any answers I can get before the items close at 12:00 EST, Thursday are appreciated. 1939 Play Ball Bill Trotter Browns High Number Item number: 290114984898 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290114984898&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:12 1939 Play Ball Pete Coscarart Dodgers High Number Item number: 290114985637 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290114985637 ================= Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:03:56 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Massimo" Subject: White Plains Card Show this weekend Anyone in the New York/NJ/Conn area planning on going to the White Plains card show this weekend? I am thinking about taking a ride there on Saturday. ================= Date: 17 May 2007 23:48:38 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "obcjohn@knology.net" Subject: T205 trade? I have the following T205 dups and am looking for T205s from my list. Dickson, Murray, Snodgrass, Wallace, and Wiltse. All low grade. Here is what I need: Adkins, Bailey, Baker, Ball, Batch, Bender, Bescher, Bridwell, Brown, Cady, Carrigan, Chance, Cobb, Collins, Crandall, Criger, Dahlen, Daubert, Devlin, Donohue, Dougherty, Duffy, Dunn, Dygert,Egan, Engle, Fisher, Ford, Frick, Gardner, Gibson, Graham , Grant, Gray , Griffith, Harmon, Jennings, Johnson, D. Jones, T. Jones, Joss, Karger, Killian, Kleinow, Knight, Laporte, Lang, Latham, Leach, Lee, Leifield, Lennox, Lush, Magee, Marquard, McBride, McConnell, Merritt, Mitchell, Moriarty, Mullin, Nee, Oldring, O'Leary, Paskert, Pfeister, Raymond, Reulbach, Rowan, Scanlan, Schmidt, Simmons, Speaker, Stahl, Steinfeldt, Stovall, Street, Suggs, Summers, Sweeney, Titus, Wagner, Wheat, K. White, Wilhelm, Willett, Wolter, Young (need 88) Anybody want to swap? ================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 02:56:22 EDT To: OBC-National@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Subject: National Plans Ok kids.. I'm starting to put my trip together. Been reading the site about events. Is anyone going to be in Cleveland on Tuesday and want to catch the Indians game that night? If guys will be there, I will come in to town that day instead of Wednesday. I'm looking to book the flight soon. I expect that gas prices will rise and affect the price of flights. Been seeing a few specials from NY. Also trying to figure what time to leave Sunday. Looks like a flight at 12:30 and one at 3:30. The early flight means practically no time at the show. Is anyone going to be hanging around Sunday that could drop me off at the airport? If so, I'll stick around for the later flight. I'm going to start to put together our contact list with cell numbers. If anyone has their information (hotel, days staying, cell number, going to either the Indians game or minor league game on Friday, etc.) send it over. Last time we stayed in that beautiful section right near the airport (I know Steve loved it there). Ken, if you have a place yet, do you remember where we did the swap meet Sat nite? Things I remember most about our last Cleveland trip was catching a card flipped across the room on the bill of my cap and Ken starting me on green tints. Oh yeah and the rain in my hotel room! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: , Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 07:47:42 -0700 From: "Dave Fallen" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] National Plans Say dad, could you give us the link to the National? -Dave Fallen ----- Original Message ----- From: ChicoD1@aol.com To: OBC-National@yahoogroups.com Cc: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:56 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] National Plans Ok kids.. I'm starting to put my trip together. Been reading the site about events.Is anyone going to be in Cleveland on Tuesday and want to catch the Indians game that night? If guys will be there, I will come in to town that day instead of Wednesday. I'm looking to book the flight soon. I expect that gas prices will rise and affect the price of flights. Been seeing a few specials from NY. Alsotrying to figure what time to leave Sunday. Looks like a flight at 12:30 and one at 3:30. The early flight means practically no time at the show. Isanyone going to be hanging around Sunday that could drop me off at the airport? If so, I'll stick around for the later flight. I'm going to start to put together our contact list with cell numbers. Ifanyone has their information (hotel, days staying, cell number, going to either the Indians game or minor league game on Friday, etc.) send it over. Last time we stayed in that beautiful section right near the airport (I know Steve loved it there). Ken, if you have a place yet, do you remember where we did the swap meet Sat nite? Things I remember most about our last Cleveland trip was catchinga card flipped across the room on the bill of my cap and Ken starting me on green tints. Oh yeah and the rain in my hotel room! See what's free at AOL.com. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.3/809 - Release Date: 5/17/2007 5:18 ================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:38:26 EDT To: david.fallen@comcast.net, OBC-National@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] National Plans Here's the link to the National Web Page. Take note on the new way of getting your tickets... Not sure if I'll do VIP again or go for the whole autograph package. _http://www.nsccshow.com/_ (http://www.nsccshow.com/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 19:42:37 +0100 From: "geno.wagner" Subject: Old Professor OBCers -- As I peer through my dupes box while I wait for the Cubs/Sox game to start, I seem to have found a lonely 1977 TCMA Casey Stengal card that needs a new home. Anybody want to offer room and board to the ol' skipper?? Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 19:21:09 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Ken M" Subject: Re: National Plans Hey guys, I've got my room booked (actually since early January) at: Homestead Studio Suites 24851 Country Club Blvd North Olmsted,=CAOhio=CA44070 The rate they currently offer online (http://www.extendedstayhotels.com) is (there's another Extended Stay hotel in the same area at the same rate too). I got mine through priceline.com for a bit less, but you have to stay wherever they dump you if you want to roll the dice through them. It's close to the airport (and the I-X center where the show is being held). As far as the swap goes, as has been the norm for the last few years, I have no idea where it will be held. Normally my plans to reserve a room get changed or cancelled altogether, so I'm not scheduling anything in advance. I was looking at oneplace seems to fit the bill: Play to Win Cafe - 5100 Pearl Rd, Cleveland, 44129 - (216) 749-5549 It's right off of Brook Park Road, where most of us stayed the last time wewere in town (probably close to that Applebee's if we can ever find that again ). I'll check it out when I get into town on Tuesday (I'm leaving the following Monday after theshow). anyone who's local to the area wants to check the place out now (to see if it's still open and in an area where we won't have to run through sniper fire) and/or make a for 20 or so on Aug. 4th at 7PM, that would be a big help. I don't think I'll be buying a VIP badge, as I have a couple leads for a dealer badge, which came in handy for us last time when we wanted to bring in a cooler. I'd be up for attending either the MLB or minor league games, since I have no firm plans other thanthe session after the show on Saturday. If anyone else wants to get updated info on the OBC events in Cleveland, there's dedicated e-mail server for that purpose. You can be added to the list by contacting me or sending an email to (OBC-National-subscribe@yahoogroups.com). That's all for Ken M ================= To: "vct" Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 23:18:51 -0400 From: "ant" Subject: 1962 post needs I am in need of some action on this set: 1962 post ceareal- any condition (12 left) #10(ralph terry),20(kaline),55(wynn),83(bob allison-sp),84(billy martin),125(jim brosnan),131(mccovey),145(joe adock),152(torre),175(bill virdon),189(sam taylor),199 I HAve the following dupes in different conditions: 1962 post #3,13,15,16,17,18,21,27,39,41,42,43,48,49,52,53,57,58,66,67,71,74,79, Anthny Arbeeny ================= Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 03:21:57 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "malsman250" Subject: 1960 availables Trying to shake out of the OBC doldrums by offering up some horizontal beauties - some of them are even pretty decent.....feel free to stake a claim, leave an address. 029 040 059 060 066 091 120 152 193 251 261 265 280 401 409 424 Bill Malson ================= To: Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 20:22:50 -0500 From: "George Vrechek" Subject: Just had to tell someone..Averill and Carter I acquired a baseball card on my wantlist for the first time in many months. I had been a second-place finisher on many ebay auctions, on others I thought the selling prices were surprisingly high. I was finally successful on one auction - a #100 Averill Diamond Star. I've had Diamond Stars on my want list for 26 years. Assuming this card is accurate, I'm down to #98 Rowe and #103 Dickey which I'm sure I'll be able to pick up for reasonable prices within the next 26 years. I looked into bidding on at least one Lionel Carter card through Mastro until I found that it costs you $75 just to register which is more than I (or Lionel Carter) ever spent on any card in a lifetime. George Vrechek ================= To: Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:32:57 -0500 From: "Mark Z" Subject: Fred Lynn model glove for trade I picked up a child size Fred Lynn model glove recently. up for trade for whatever you think it is worth including postage. I have a couple of pictures if you would like to see it. it can fit on my average size hand barely, so it is more for collector's interest than using.. thanks, Mark Zentkovich ================= Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:47:38 EDT To: dugouttraders@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: green tint mayhem as a i was going through my 62 set on a cold and rainy sunday, i noticed that the #173 i had (chico fernandez) was a green tint, and i do not have the regular version. so, my '62 set is no longer complete. if anyone has a spare in VG available, i would be happy to trade in your favor. tnx, gary mandell ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:34:13 EDT To: CardClctor@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: National Plans Ok I have a room. Staying same place as Ken... Homestead Studio Suites 24851 Country Club Blvd N. Olmstead, Oh, 44070 Here are the caveats... Ken got the better rate because he is staying min 6 days. I am staying 5 so the rate is 54.99/nite. Instead of doing it on line, I called directly. Pestered the guy a little and he took 5% off per nite ($52.24). Room has a full kitchen. Now all I need to do is find a cheap flight. Halfway there! I'll start the contact spreadsheets going out in a week or two after hearing from more folks. Any National rookies going? And remind me to hit the "Benchwarmers" Booth at the beginning! Has anyone gotten their national tickets on line yet with the new system? I'm up for the game at the Jake on Tuesday and the minor league game on Friday. If anyone is getting tix in advance and needs cash sent, let me know. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:00:20 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Subject: National update Ok I'm all set..arriving in sunny Cleveland Tues the 31st. I should be at the hotel by 12:15 or so (just in time for lunch with anyone already there). I'll be leaving Sunday at 3:30 flight. I remember getting a few last minute deals as guys where packing up, so I wanted to be there for Sunday. Don't forget to email me your details (place staying, cell number, what days, are you going to the Tues and/or Friday game, etc). If you go to the Homestead, call them direct and ask for the 5% off per nite that I got. Anyone hear from Kent ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:12:06 EDT To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: A Super Weekend Thanks Hello All, I wasn't sure if this should go into Ramblings or Thanks, so I will sent it to both...LOL OK here is how it all began.... I am a huge Hockey fan. One of my goals has been to see a Red Wings (hockey Town USA) play a home Playoff game, now all other years tickets are impossible to get for a reasonable price...well for some reason this year they didn't sell out the place (Joe Louis Arena) so i jumped on a ticket. I put out a ramble to see if any obcers wanted to met up for the weekend, and with in a few hours Mike Rich replied with an offer to meet up oh yeah and put me up for the trip. So needless to say I took Mike up on his offer. Now as I pulled up to mikes house i should have know that this trip was going to be great, as it started on the right foot, For the first time in my life i got pin point directions on MAPQUEST.....i was floored when i pulled up to mikes house with out getting lost. OK, I pulled into Mikes place, unpacked , and then we went out to the Tigers game. We got into Downtown area and parked not too far from the park, and took a little "People Mover" looks like a mini subway to the ball park. We got into the park, and wow was it beautiful. we had great seats, upper deck, but right behind home plate. The Food at the Park was also great. I put down 4 hot dogs. 2 Hebrew national, 1 Chicago style and 1 regular, and YES mike was right, that Chicago style killed me...wow was I feeling it, I thought I was having a heart attack, but of course it didn't stop me for going for my 4th dog...LOL mike and I were bull shitting the entire game having great time watching the game and in conversation. Oh yeah the tigers won a squeaker. After the game we went back to mikes place and we chatted about cards more, and about sports.Mike also showed me his AMAZING card collection and I was FLOORED again. what a collection When I went to call it a night I found a few hits to my 54 bowman 73 and 64 Topps, 55 Topps double header and a 1986 tcma mets team set in my room...WOW better then the bed mints....LOL OK now for the second day in Detroit. Mike and I go to a local card show and Meet up with Mark Talbot. At the show mark hands me a stack of cards a ton of NY Islanders cards and 20 hits to my 61 Topps, 8 hits to my 60 Topps and 2 hits to my 60 leaf. WOW thank you Mark. At the show mike introduced me to a dealer who had great box's I found a ton of 50's and 60's for $0.25 each..... mike talked the dealer and got me over 40% off oh yeah mike also paid for the cards behind my back and would take my $$$$ so another big thanks to mike over 60 cards. Mike also told the dealer I drove in to see the Red Wings game and the dealer threw in a Red Wings Puck for me. again thank you. Now it was time for me to say goodbye It was getting close to face off at the Red Wings game. I went to the game and I got to tell you the fans in Detroit were so great They all embrace me I went solo, but all the people around me were nice we started talking I told them I came in form NY and they made me feel like part of their party...great people in Detroit... I was in Heaven as it has been one of my dreams to see a playoff game there, I had a smile ear to ear the entire time I LOVED it so much. So thanks go out to Mike Rich for the cardboard, room and the great conversation,thanks to Mark Talbot for the cards and the conversations as well I had a great time meeting both of you, hope to see you both soon at the Thank you very much Rob "The FIREMAN" ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:25:49 -0700 (PDT) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Denise Fortier Subject: remember when. Was going through some stuff and found this link. Enjoy http://hometown.aol.com/dkolenda1/ftwash98.html ================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 01:10:11 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Subject: Address Directory Has anyone got the latest and greatest or where I can find it in Yahoo groups? In the meantime, Jeff, send me the address and I'll get that CD on its ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:59:46 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Linda" Subject: Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping I would like to warn members of this ebay seller who charges $16 to ship just one 1953 Topps card. See ebay # 290113990764. http://tinyurl.com/2qr434 ================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 06:53:02 EDT To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: LUURSCJG@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping Since he says he ships by weight of package he must of used Pee Wee weight on back of card to come to that total ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: LUURSCJG@aol.com, Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 08:04:04 -0400 From: jdelott@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping I saw an auction fromthat seller last week where he added that the $16 was a mistake - the correct amount was only $6. What a bargain, only $6! -----Original Message----- From: LUURSCJG@aol.com To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 22 May 2007 6:53 am Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping Since he says he ships by weight of package he must of used Pee Wee weight on back of card to come to that total Since he says he ships by weight of package he must of used Pee Wee weight on back of card to come to that total See what's free at AOL.com. Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:09:47 EDT To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping This seller is Broadway Rick's Strike Zone and is a hobby scumbag. He has been caught shilling his own auctions, fabricating authenticity letters, overcharging, shorting, trimming, etc. Check out his feedback. I cannot believe he is still in business but he is a true ass. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:14:46 -0400 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping Content-Disposition: inline Perhaps 50 of us should submit complaints about him via ebay. On 5/22/07, Wite3@aol.com wrote: > This seller is Broadway Rick's Strike Zone and is a hobby scumbag. He > has been caught shilling his own auctions, fabricating authenticity letters, > overcharging, shorting, trimming, etc. Check out his feedback. I cannot > believe he is still in business but he is a true ass. > Joshua > ------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com . ================= Date: 22 May 2007 22:34:54 -0000 To: "Steve Rittenberg" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "obcjohn@knology.net" Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping Anybody who collects vintage cards and is on ebay has run across BRSZ and his garbage. You quickly learn to steer clear of him but he hangs around preying on novices or people unfamiliar with his underhanded practices. Suffice it to say, forewarned is forearmed. ------------- Original message follows ------------- Perhaps 50 of us should submit complaints about him via ebay. On 5/22/07, Wite3@aol.com wrote: > This seller is Broadway Rick's Strike Zone and is a hobby scumbag. He > has been caught shilling his own auctions, fabricating authenticity letters, > overcharging, shorting, trimming, etc. Check out his feedback. I cannot > believe he is still in business but he is a true ass. > Joshua > ------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com . ================= To: , Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:30:17 -0700 From: "Grant" Subject: RE: *****SPAM***** Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping I am particularly fond of the 1956=85..yes, 1956=85=85=85Minnesota Twins lineup card he has for sale=85the guy=92s a pro. -----Original Message----- From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of obcjohn@knology.net Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:35 PM To: Steve Rittenberg; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Beware of ebay seller who overcharges for shipping Anybody who collects vintage cards and is on ebay has run across BRSZ his garbage. You quickly learn to steer clear of him but he hangs around preying on novices or people unfamiliar with his underhanded practices. Suffice it to say, forewarned is forearmed. -------------- Original message follows -------------- Perhaps 50 of us should submit complaints about him via ebay. On 5/22/07, HYPERLINK "mailto:Wite3%40aol.com"Wite3@aol.com wrote: > This seller is Broadway Rick's Strike Zone and is a hobby scumbag. He > has been caught shilling his own auctions, fabricating authenticity > overcharging, shorting, trimming, etc. Check out his feedback. I > believe he is still in business but he is a true ass. > Joshua > -------------------------------- > See what's free at AOL.com Subject: Does he have any Los Angeles Angels 1956 lineup cards for sale? In OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, "Grant" wrote: I am particularly fond of the 1956=85..yes, 1956=85=85=85Minnesota Twins lineup card he has for sale=85the guy's a pro. Maybe Broadway Rick can come up with a 1956 Los Angeles Angels lineup card too.I would not be inclined to buy it though. By the way is Broadway Rick related to Broadway Joe?-Linda ================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 23:06:58 EDT To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: LUURSCJG@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Does he have any Los Angeles Angels 1956 lineup cards for... Just the broad part beween the ears ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 23:12:06 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Linda" Subject: Great OBC lot of (54) 1957 topps on ebay ebay # 300108709663 http://tinyurl.com/2zqyg3 ================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 19:43:19 -0400 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: Question about the value of a T-207 Duffy Lewis Does someone have a 2007 SCD available? Dave Kolenda asked me about the value of a T207 Duffy Lewis. His 2005 SCD shows Duffy to be worth about $9G and Irving to be worth about $600. My 2003, 2004, and 2006 show the opposite information -- Duffy is expensive but not a $9000 card. Also, if anyone has actual experience buying/selling this card or observing that, please let me know. All information will be passed along to Dave, who seems to be having some problems receiving ================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 19:56:13 -0400 To: srittenberg@gmail.com (Steve Rittenberg) From: Originaleek@webtv.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Question about the value of a T-207 Duffy Lewis To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 19:43:19 -0400 Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Question about the value of a T-207 Duffy Lewis ================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:56:23 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "mikesportsfan" Subject: Need help IDing a card This question is probably best for Andy Cook, but just in case, the whole group can weigh in. There are a number of prewar sets that use the same cards and pictures. The only differences are frequently the backs. A great example are the 1922 E-120 American Caramel, Neilson's Chocolates and W-573 sets. The W-573 are blank backed and the backs are quite distinct on the American Caramel and Neilsons. However, I thought therre were also color differences throughout the sets. I have a Virgil Cheeves, with a greenish coloring on the front, but is blank backed. Greenish coloring would lead me to believe it is an American Caramel, but blank back would be W-573. Anyone know for sure. Ironic part is that I had listed it as a Neilsons, which I am now fairly certain it is not. I do have another W-573 and a couple of Neilsons. I am hoping the Cheeves would be my first E-120 American Caramel. If it is a W-573, I will be officially working on the set, as I will now have 2, so you can see how important this distinction is. Mike (need another set to work on) Rich ================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 02:45:18 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "malsman250" Subject: 1960 availables - revisited One more try - gotta be somebody out there that still needs 1960s. Didn't get a nibble last time..... Trying to shake out of the OBC doldrums by offering up some horizontal beauties - some of them are even pretty decent.....feel free to stake a claim, leave an address. 029 040 059 060 066 091 120 152 193 251 261 265 280 401 409 424 Bill Malson ================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:05:48 EDT To: srittenberg@gmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Question about the value of a T-207 Duffy Lewis The 2005 edition has a mistake in the t207 set and all the prices are off by a couple of spots...go by the later books. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 01:57:38 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "T.J. Valacak" Subject: 68 set complete I ran into a nice deal on Sunday and just wanted to let the group know about it. There is a dealer out here in Northwest Chicago who runs a few small shows on a weekly basis. I have been going to his shows for a few years. A few months ago, he told me he had some vintage at home but he doesn't like to bring it with to the small shows. He told me that I could leave a wantlist with him and he would fill it. He ended up doing some damage to a few of my uv sets. Last week, he emailed me saying he had some more cards. I was able to stop by the show before it opened, and sure enough, he had some cards for me. He let me know that he had the remaining 7 cards for my 68 set. I took a look at them. Brooks Rob, Steve Carlton, Roger Maris, A tigers Team card, Mayo Smith, Dick Tracewski, and the Bench rookie. The cards ranged in condition from good(bench rookie- probably a shade below good with rounded corners and creasing,) to vg/ex(Brooks). He said he wanted 25 bucks for the 7 cards. Deal! What a feeling. I definitley did not expect to put that set to rest in one shot. I had been watching and unsuccessfully bidding on some Bench rookies over the last few weeks. BUt to get all 7 in one shot. Wow. I also ended up purchasing some 8 sleeve shhets from him so I could put my 56 set in a binder. I am loving these binders. I left him with my wants for 69 and 73. Hopefully I can put those to rest soon as well. Anyway, I just wanted to share the good news. On another note, our softball team lost in the regional semifinals yesterday. Although I am a bit down about the loss, I can't tell you how nice it was to come home after school today and spend some time with my son. Priceless. Have a good one. ================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 23:33:26 EDT To: OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com, dugouttraders@yahoogroups.com, From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: 67 topps football - parker bros? hi: i seem to remember that parker brothers put out a game that used copiues of the 1968 topps baseball cards. you could tell the copies because the backs were definately a brighter yellow orange. today, i received a 1967 topps football card. it seemed to be made of slightly thinner stock than the other 67s i had, was very glossy, and the back was very bright. did parker bros. or some other company use copies of the 67 football set for some other set? are there conterfeits of semistar 67 cards making the rounds? this was a john hadl card, not a real toughie. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 04:05:27 +0000 From: talbot1@comcast.net Subject: V-A-C-A-T-I-O-N !!!!!!!!!! Hello All, I am on vacation for a few days, well sort of today - I missed my connection in Chicago to meet up with my wife who is now in Los Cabos MX waiting for my arrival tomorrow as I fly out of Midway at 6 am. So it was an unexpected lay-over in Chi-town and wouldn't you know the Sox are off and the Cubbies are out of town. Oh well, I'll be out of the loop till Tuesday as the wife and I will be enjoying the "fun in the sun" - BE WELL!!! REGARDS ------------------ MARK ================= Date: 25 May 2007 13:52:35 -0000 To: "T.J. Valacak" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "obcjohn@knology.net" Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** [OBC-Ramblings] 68 set complete Congrats on the set completion. Always nice to put one away. ------------- Original message follows ------------- I ran into a nice deal on Sunday and just wanted to let the group know about it. There is a dealer out here in Northwest Chicago who runs a few small shows on a weekly basis. I have been going to his shows for a few years. A few months ago, he told me he had some vintage at home but he doesn't like to bring it with to the small shows. He told me that I could leave a wantlist with him and he would fill it. He ended up doing some damage to a few of my uv sets. Last week, he emailed me saying he had some more cards. I was able to stop by the show before it opened, and sure enough, he had some cards for me. He let me know that he had the remaining 7 cards for my 68 set. I took a look at them. Brooks Rob, Steve Carlton, Roger Maris, A tigers Team card, Mayo Smith, Dick Tracewski, and the Bench rookie. The cards ranged in condition from good(bench rookie- probably a shade below good with rounded corners and creasing,) to vg/ex(Brooks). He said he wanted 25 bucks for the 7 cards. Deal! What a feeling. I definitley did not expect to put that set to rest in one shot. I had been watching and unsuccessfully bidding on some Bench rookies over the last few weeks. BUt to get all 7 in one shot. Wow. I also ended up purchasing some 8 sleeve shhets from him so I could put my 56 set in a binder. I am loving these binders. I left him with my wants for 69 and 73. Hopefully I can put those to rest soon as well. Anyway, I just wanted to share the good news. On another note, our softball team lost in the regional semifinals yesterday. Although I am a bit down about the loss, I can't tell you how nice it was to come home after school today and spend some time with my son. Priceless. Have a good one. ================= To: "obc rambling" , Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 22:24:28 -0400 From: "ant" Subject: Fleer globetrotters set collects? I am willing to list on my page any traders that collect this set including the cocco puff version I know of the following thus far: Steve Ritt. Mike Rich Howard Morgan M. Talbot Whom else is activly looking and would care for me to putt his on my page. I am also looking for some cocco puff hits if anyone is ambitious over the weekend ================= To: "obc rambling" , Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 09:41:23 -0400 From: "ant" Subject: 1973-74 dondruss super freak footbal & baseball cards in need Hello All, I am very close to this set with 1973 or 1974 dondruss superfreak -"ugly " cards. They have cartoon like animals in football type poses with green on the back. They prduced a similar set in baseball as well.. 42 card set Need #19,24 1973 or 1974 super freaks baseball series 1 with white backs #10 any heros out there I do have the following dupes football #41,39,37,35,33,29,21,18,16,15,14,4, baseball series 2 1980 (yellow backs)? #31,40,37,38 anthony arbeeny ================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 13:51:05 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Massimo" Subject: Any Patriots fans out there? Someone gave me a $50 gift certificate to Pro Sports Memorabilia. They didnt have anything that I collected so I arranged a trade. The person that I traded with chose an 8x10 framed photo of Tom Brady holding the Super Bowl 38 Trophy. When the package arrived the glass was broken so they sent another one and told me to keep the one with the broken glass. So if any Patriot fan out there wants the photo, it is yours, all you have to do is get the glass fixed. ================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 09:56:57 -0500 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ddejong@everestkc.net Subject: Available 61 and 66 Topps Hey gang - Been hitting some wantlists this morning and thought I would throw a few availables out for everyone. Please don't be shy and if you include your address in your response, it would be appreciated. Have a great holiday weekend! 61 Topps --- 17 36 72 90 98 111 125 130 145 152 166 167 168 252 253 262 267 268 273 274 276 279 293 329 437 463 66 Topps ---13 26 34 42 46 47 49 63 66 67 68 69 73 80 96 96 101 173 174 178 186 188 192 194 237 253 297 308 345 377 394 395 408 ================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 12:43:44 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: kwg0@aol.com Subject: The Great Pacific Northwest Trek starts today. Never thought this day was going to come. Vacation time started at noon yesterday. Plane leaves tonight. After not taking any time off since the National I'm ready for this For you Pacific Northwest contingents, I'll be arriving in Seattle late afternoorn and headup to Vancouver on Saturday. With all said I will be away for two weeks of R & R. Hope I'll have time for pitstops at shops. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 22:53:13 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Massimo" Subject: Can anyone with a Becketts give me some BV help? I am working on a trade with someone from another group and need the BVs for the following: 1972 Baseball Topps #'s 222 (71 AL Playoffs, G), 378 (Unmarked CL, VG), 675 (G), 681 (VG/EX), 758 (EX) 1982 Baseball Topps Traded Set in NRMT minus the Ripken RC. ================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 11:12:23 -0400 To: "OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com" From: "Steve Rittenberg" Subject: obc friendly dealer with cheap '56 stars on ebay Content-Disposition: inline Check out this '56 Aaron from OBC-friendly dealer Randy Kniffin. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130118620565&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSEL:US:1 He has a few others as well. ================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 16:07:38 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Massimo" Subject: Waiver Wire availables Here are some cards that are available to be claimed, please include your address: 1963 Baseball Topps #'s 8, 75 1965 Baseball Topps # 35 1968 Baseball Topps # 532 1973 Baseball Topps # 416 1972 Football Topps #'s 60, 243 1975 Football Topps #'s 343, 352 1977-78 Hockey Topps #'s 144, 229 1979-80 OPC Hockey # 383 I also have many Baseball Topps from 1976 to 1981 so if you need anything from those years, email me your list. ================= To: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:23:15 +0100 From: "geno.wagner" Subject: Last Europe Fling OBCers -- The Wagner clan is off on our last vacation before heading back to the land of baseball, pick-up trucks, water pressure, and garbage disposals. We leave on Wednesday for a week in Croatia, hanging out on a small island off of the old town of Split. It wasn't all that long ago that I was flying missions into Brindisi, Italy for the war in Croatia and Bosnia. It's a gorgeous place that was a victim of the haphazard border shaping after WWII when it became part of what we all knew as Yugoslavia. Anyway, when we get back, we start packing boxes for the move to Florida. The family is leaving for Chicago in July to visit our families, while I'm headed out the first week of August to find a house in the panhandle. My luggage will consist of a couple pairs of skivvies, a few shirts, and a box of tobacco cards! I have always moved my whole collection from assignment-to-assignment in the past, but here I have to put them on a ship if I don't carry them. For that reason, I've pretty much shipped most of my cards to my parent's house over the past few years, leaving me with my pre-war collection for the most part. The funny thing about it, I haven't really missed the Topps cards like I thought I would. I suppose that's why my list has dwindled to T202s and random pre-war - I just can't get excited about dishing out huge cash for another Mantle. Not that Cobbs are cheap, but beaters can be reasonable. I'm looking forward to hooking up with OBCers again when I get back. I miss the old Ft Washington days and the California Fudruckers nights. Looks like my closest team will be the Mobile BayBears, about 90 miles to the west. Any BayBear fans in the house?!? Take Care, Geno ================= Date: 28 May 2007 22:20:41 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "obcjohn@knology.net" Subject: Memorial Day Thanks As an old Navy vet, I'd like to thanks all those who are on current active military duty, those who are retired, and those who have given the ultimate sacrifice for their country. We owe a great debt to those who put themselves in harm's way to maintain our freedoms. So to all who have served or are still serving their country, I say "Thank You". ================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 16:55:24 -0700 (PDT) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jerry Coker Subject: change of address... Just a quick note...we are home owners again! We just purchased a house in Poultney, VT (the village). We've been renting outside Poultney for (3) years now, so it feels good to be a home owner again. I've made the address change in the OBC directory. All that changed was my street address (it is now 234 York St.). And...now I can walk to work and Sarah can walk to school :) One of the other great things about this move is I will have more room to sort thru and display my collection of baseball cards and magazines! Just wanted to share my good fortune! Go Braves!! Jerry Coker Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. ================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 20:49:49 EDT To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, DaReALDrZa@aol.com, NJDevChick@aol.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: my sons fist ebay auction From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:18:21 EDT Subject: (no subject) To: DaPatriot1@aol.com _eBay: Dragon Ball Z - Vegeta Saga I: Saiyan Showdown (2005... (item 220116826231 end time Jun-02-07 14:17:33 PDT)_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220116826231) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= To: "obcjohn@knology.net" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 00:48:52 +0000 From: hoot-owl@comcast.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Memorial Day Thanks I will second Bama's thanks. Every Memorial Day I get a little choked up thanking my brother for his Naval service. He retires next Friday after a 27-year career. Must be the both of us are getting older. Thanks to all who have served..... Peter Mead -------------- Original message -------------- From: "obcjohn@knology.net" As an old Navy vet, I'd like to thanks all those who are on current active military duty, those who are retired, and those who have given the ultimate sacrifice for their country. We owe a great debt to those who put themselves in harm's way to maintain our freedoms. So to all who have served or are still serving their country, I say "Thank You". ================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 07:11:03 -0700 (PDT) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Dan Angland Subject: FW: The Impossible Dream Team Card Show This email was sent to you by Mohegan Sun. To ensure delivery to your inbox (not bulk or junk mail folders), please add mohegansun@codeworksonline.com to your address book. Please do not "Reply" to this email. If you are having trouble viewing this email, click here. Friday, June 1st, 5:00 pm - 9:00 pm Saturday, June 2nd, 9:00 am - 5:00 pm Sunday, June 3rd, 10:00 am - 5:00 pm The Sox Stars will be here. How about you? Saturday, June 2nd 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Bill Landis Dennis Bennett Dick Williams George Scott Jose Santiago Reggie Smith 12:00 pm - 2:00 pm Carl Yastrezemski 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm Billy Rohr Dalton Jones Don Osinski Dave Morehead Jose Tartabull Learn more » Sunday, June 3rd 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Carl Yastrezemski Dick Williams Gary Bell Mike Ryan Norm Siebern George Thomas Lee Stange 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm Darrell Brandon Gary Waslewski Jerry Moses Jim Lonborg Rico Petrocelli Russ Gibson For questions or comments regarding this promotion, please contact 1.888.MOHEGAN Our records indicate that you wish to receive email offers from Mohegan Sun. If you prefer that we not send future emails, please click here to unsubscribe. Copyright 2007 Mohegan Sun. 1 Mohegan Sun Boulevard, Uncasville, CT 06382. All rights reserved. www.mohegansun.com. Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:50:56 EDT To: duph182@yahoo.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] FW: The Impossible Dream Team Card Show Didn't Dick Williams die a year or so ago? In a message dated 5/29/2007 9:13:05 AM Central Daylight Time, duph182@yahoo.com writes: This email was sent to you by Mohegan Sun. To ensure delivery to your inbox (not bulk or junk mail folders), please add mohegansun@codeworkmohegansun@to your address book. Please do not "Reply" to this email. If you are having trouble viewing this email, _click here_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m14637081&j1596&uhttp://promotions.mohegansun.com/ io/2007_05/red_sox/team.html) . (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m14637081&j1596&uhttp://www.mohegansun.com) Friday, June 1st, 5:00 pm - 9:00 pm Saturday, June 2nd, 9:00 am - 5:00 pm Sunday, June 3rd, 10:00 am - 5:00 pm The Sox Stars will be here. How about you? Saturday, June 2nd 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Bill Landis Dennis Bennett Dick Williams George Scott Jose Santiago Reggie Smith 12:00 pm - 2:00 pm Carl Yastrezemski 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm Billy Rohr Dalton Jones Don Osinski Dave Morehead Jose Tartabull _Learn more =BB_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m14637081&j1596&uhttp://www.signingshotline.com) Sunday, June 3rd 11:00 am - 1:00 pm Carl Yastrezemski Dick Williams Gary Bell Mike Ryan Norm Siebern George Thomas Lee Stange 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm Darrell Brandon Gary Waslewski Jerry Moses Jim Lonborg Rico Petrocelli Russ Gibson For questions or comments regarding this promotion, please contact Our records indicate that you wish to receive email offers from Mohegan Sun. If you prefer that we not send future emails, please _click here_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m14637081&j1596&uhttp://promotions.mohegans un.com/email/) to unsubscribe. Copyright 2007 Mohegan Sun. 1 Mohegan Sun Boulevard, Uncasville, CT 06382. All rights reserved. _www.mohegansun.www_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m14637081&j1596&uhttp://www.mohegansun.com) Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. _Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. _ (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt48224/*http://sims.yahoo.com/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) To: smartalecx@aol.com, duph182@yahoo.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Chris Stufflestreet Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] FW: The Impossible Dream Team Card Show Darrell Johnson -- the skipper of that '75 squad -- died a short time ago. Perhaps you're getting him confused with Dick Williams (who was a Boso manager in the late 1960s). Take care, --- smartalecx@aol.com wrote: > Didn't Dick Williams die a year or so ago? > In a message dated 5/29/2007 9:13:05 AM Central > Daylight Time, > duph182@yahoo.com writes: > FYI > This email was sent to you by Mohegan Sun. To > ensure delivery to your inbox > (not bulk or junk mail folders), please add > mohegansun@codeworkmohegansun@ to > your address book. > Please do not "Reply" to this email. > If you are having trouble viewing this email, > _click here_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m=14637081&j=1596&u=http://promotions.mohegansun.com/ > io/2007_05/red_sox/team.html) . (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m=14637081&j=1596&u=http://www.mohegansun.com) > Friday, June 1st, 5:00 pm - 9:00 pm > Saturday, June 2nd, 9:00 am - 5:00 pm > Sunday, June 3rd, 10:00 am - 5:00 pm > The Sox Stars will be here. How about you? > Saturday, June 2nd > 11:00 am - 1:00 pm > Bill Landis > Dennis Bennett > Dick Williams > George Scott > Jose Santiago > Reggie Smith > 12:00 pm - 2:00 pm > Carl Yastrezemski > 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm > Billy Rohr > Dalton Jones > Don Osinski > Dave Morehead > Jose Tartabull > _Learn more »_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m=14637081&j=1596&u=http://www.signingshotline.com) > Sunday, June 3rd > 11:00 am - 1:00 pm > Carl Yastrezemski > Dick Williams > Gary Bell > Mike Ryan > Norm Siebern > George Thomas > Lee Stange > 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm > Darrell Brandon > Gary Waslewski > Jerry Moses > Jim Lonborg > Rico Petrocelli > Russ Gibson > For questions or comments regarding this promotion, > please contact > 1.888.MOHEGAN > Our records indicate that you wish to receive email > offers from Mohegan Sun. > If you prefer that we not send future emails, > please _click here_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m=14637081&j=1596&u=http://promotions.mohegans > un.com/email/) to unsubscribe. > Copyright 2007 Mohegan Sun. 1 Mohegan Sun > Boulevard, Uncasville, CT 06382. > All rights reserved. _www.mohegansun.www_ (http://promotions.mohegansun.com/exec.asp?m=14637081&j=1596&u=http://www.mohegansun.com) > . > ____________________________________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. > _Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. _ (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48224/*http://sims.yahoo.com/) > ************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. I am an avid collector of vintage baseball cards. To view my online wantlist, visit: http://www.geocities.com/chrisstufflestreet/wantlist.html It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ================= Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 02:32:29 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "rayluurs" Subject: Conlon collection Our Minnesota SABR group has taken on the a project of writing a book on Minnesota natives (Most of them anyhow). I was assigned Wally Gilbert who until a few days ago never heard of him. However in doing some research I found a Wally Gilbert who played professional football for the Duluth Kelleys in 1923 though 27 He started playing baseball in 1928-32. My question o the Conlon collecters is I found a 1992 conlan card on ebay of Wally Gilbert tha states on it two sports. What I am wondering is the football and baseball player the same guy or two different ================= To: Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:51:36 -0400 From: Mac Wubben Subject: Anybody have 1958 #173 Yost? Need just that one to finish off the team set. Can anybody help with this one? Thanks in advance! Download Messenger. Start an i=92m conversation. Support a cause. Join now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?sourceTAGWL_MAY07 ================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:51:00 EDT To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: DaPatriot1@aol.com Subject: my sons ebay auction Hello all I see a few OBCers have bid on my sons Ebay auction, right now someone bid on it, and im not sure if its an OBCer.......is anyone in the group ebay name _monty10001_ (http://myworld.ebay.com/monty10001/) ??? if not please dont bid anymore...i have a legit buyer for my son...thank you guys for the help...... Rob Gioia ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:30:32 EDT To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OCTraders@yahoogroups.com, From: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: one good problem deserves another in order to avoid having our beloved postal service rip enevelopes to shreads, i notice many folks completely encasing the envelope in tape. problem is, how do you open it? scissors coud ruin the contents, and a knife may be worse. any suggestions? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:00:07 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Massimo" Subject: Anyone need Top Loaders or Soft Sleeves? I have boxes of used Top Loaders, some good for storing cards and others good for shipping cards and Soft Sleeves lying around. If you need either, then email me and I will send some out to you. ================= Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:31:55 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Tom Housley" Subject: My first YouTube upload Hi all, As most of you know, I work for a TV station. As part of my job, I produce our annual Children's Miracle Network telethon (it airs this weekend). This year marks the 25th anniversary of the telethon, & my station has been carrying it every year. I edited 25 years of highlights into a 30 second piece (we'll air ir a few times this weekend), but I uploaded it to YouTube a few days early. Here's the URL if you 'd like to see it: http://youtube.com/watch?v0KaUI-PW9EQ If the URL doesn't work, go to youtube.com & search for "WHIO". Feel free to leave comments or rate it. I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out :-)