================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:27:08 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] more fraud To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com Way to flush him out joshua! I also wrote him an email saying I was interested but that it looked like an archive card, no response as of yet. In his reply he says that ebay woulf not let him edit the description after a bid was places, however the listing shows no bidders. 167 Days til V2002, pitcher and catcher to report earlier. Rest well., ================= To: topgolf@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] more fraud Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 11:10:49 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" If you click on Bid History you'll see a retraced bid. That's probably why he can't edit or delete it. I'm not positive but I think he should be able to end it early. >From: topgolf@aol.com >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] more fraud >Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:27:08 EST >Way to flush him out joshua! I also wrote him an email saying I was >interested but that it looked like an archive card, no response as of yet. >In his reply he says that ebay woulf not let him edit the description after >bid was places, however the listing shows no bidders. >167 Days til V2002, pitcher and catcher to report earlier. >Rest well., Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:08:08 EST Subject: A Lot of Stuff Up For Grabs! To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: lzurawski@aol.com I finally got a chance to sort thru my dupes box. It's been quite a while since I sent anything out, so I'm trying to make up for lost time. I've got about 12 OBC deliveries going out in today's mail (also my OBC dues), and have put together a list of everything else I have available. The list below includes baseball, basketball, and (a few) football singles, as well as some starter sets and mixed lots. You guys have been keeping my mailman busy lately, so please don't be shy in claiming stuff from my list of availables so I can get even! Larry Z. BASEBALL SINGLES 1954 (Topps) 2 91 1956 204 1958 95 110 123 125 126 130 242 279 318 434 1959 94 111 148 151 303 335 389 415 417 429 436 491 517 539 1961 20 150 189 190 209 361 468 479 487 492 1962 36 42 44 47 66 98 120 1964 261 271 277 343 348 1965 9 11 15 20 26 33 36 38 39 46 63 64 66 73 74 82 85 88 94 97 101 104 125 129 131 159 174 181 183 188 189 191 201 213 216 224 261 267 273 277 310 342 344 349 361 366 372 427 452 503 541 546 552 557 570 574 578 579 584 590 1966 139 1972 51 100 130 132 BASEBALL ODDBALLS 1970 Milton Bradley - Brock Haller Howard Marichal McDowell Menke Petrocelli Powell F. Robinson Stottlemyre Taylor 1969 Topps Deckle Edge - 17 (F. Alou) 1975 Hostess - Aaron 1980 Kelloggs - 28 29 39 43 44 51 Supplement to 1984 Baseball Cards Magazine - "1949 Bowman" Mantle BASEBALL STARTER SETS - Condition varies, average is probably VG or VG-EX 1970 (36 different) 1971 (78 different) 1973 (220 different) 1974 (210 different) 1976 (235 different) Topps Archives 1953 (130 different) BASEBALL MIXED LOTS - refill your dupes box! Mixed lot 1 - 115 assorted 1968-1972 Mixed lot 2 - 240 assorted 1973-1976 Mixed lot 3 - 180 assorted Topps Archives 1953 and 1954 TOPPS BASKETBALL SINGLES 1969-70 22 37 39 48 53 57 63 86 89 1970-71 8 22 24 (marked) 55 57 101 (marked) 150 169 1971-72 5 6 8 15 23 24 37 39 40 49 56 77 81 89 90 92 111 115 144 146 163 185 196 197 198 207 216 217 218 231 1972-73 27 43 57 66 82 96 97 98 101 126 137 139 147 156 170 191 193 202 212 1973-74 52 different, avg EX 1974-75 1 (Kareem) FLEER BASKETBALL SINGLES (Most are NM/M) I guess these are technically UV-infected, but... 1987-88 1 5 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 29 30 31 33 34 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 63 73 78 79 80 82 83 86 87 88 94 95 96 97 98 99 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 124 1988-89 3 9 15 21 22 28 60 63 69 70 76 82 88 94 119 121 123 129 130 BASKETBALL STARTER SETS 1979-80 30 different NM w/stars 1981-82 59 different NM w/stars Mixed lot - 134 assorted 74-75 thru 81-82 FOOTBALL SINGLES 1952 Bowman - 7 19 1970 Kelloggs - 18 19 24 31 37 39 47 49 52 58 1966 Philadelphia - 29 1974 Wonder Bread - 14 1975 Wonder Bread - 19 24 ================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 15:02:04 EST Subject: Boob Tube Award? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Last night while flipping around the TV, I was very excited to stumble upon "The Natural" on the AMC cable network. I hadn't seen it for a few years and, let's face it...it is a modern baseball classic. However, my excitement soon turn to frustration as during the movie there were blue and green stripes at the bottom of the screen with ticker-like updates on an online auction they were running at the same time. As it turns out, this showing of "The Natural" was AMC's "Big Bid Movie" (or something) where viewers could bid on baseball "artifacts" such as a 1998 Jeter auto'd ball or an auto'd photo of Glenn Close. Every so often, they would cut into the movie and have in studio discussions with memorabilia "experts" and current Met Al Leiter. They did not mention (at least while I was watching) that this was an auction for charity, in which case this would be forgivable, but I certainly got the feeling that it wasn't. The feeling I had was closer to watching those baseball card clowns on home shopping television than it was watching an American Movie Classic. And now, back to your regularly scheduled program (so to speak). Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:55:10 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] more fraud To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com In a message dated 12/1/2001 11:11:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, boreed@hotmail.com writes: << If you click on Bid History you'll see a retraced bid. That's probably he can't edit or delete it. I'm not positive but I think he should be able to end it early. >From: topgolf@aol.com >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] more fraud >Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:27:08 EST >Way to flush him out joshua! I also wrote him an email saying I was >interested but that it looked like an archive card, no response as of yet. >In his reply he says that ebay woulf not let him edit the description after >bid was places, however the listing shows no bidders. >> I'm almost positive that you can add a supplement to the description after someone has placed a bid. This guy is full of it. ================= To: Subject: Lynn Miller Assault Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:25:48 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Just a quick reminder that Monday is mail-out day for your card and/or Lynn Miller PSC 517 Box RS FPO AP ================= To: Subject: New sets! 1959 and 1965 Topps Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:55:37 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Some years when I wasn't so actively collecting, I unloaded complete sets of 1959 and 1965 Topps. I thought since my want list was getting so hard to hit, it would be fun to see how far OBC can take me into these sets again. So if you're looking for anything to send me (and I know you all are), any 1959 or 1965 Topps cards (since I currently have none) would be most Tim N ================= To: Subject: 53 mantle.....not Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:27:26 -0800 From: "yaz" My correspondence with the seller below: Greg (yaz) Withdraw this item now. This is not a 1953 Mantle. Question from: yazmon Title of item: 1953 Mickey Mantle Topps # 82 Seller: pyt497 Starts: Nov-27-01 13:41:01 PST Ends: Dec-02-01 13:41:01 PST Price: Starts at $500.00 To view the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1039995019 His reply: If you so kindly would look just above the card. I believe that there is a statement that says this card is a reprint. DUH!!! you tend to your ebay and I will tend to mine. GOOD DAY! He has apparently found a way to change the listing, (It is quite easy), after the one bidder was wised up to the deal. Greg (yaz) ================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:01:30 EST Subject: Prewar Trading Website To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com To facilitate discussion, trading, collecting of prewar cards, I set up a simple website this weekend that has a classified ad feature (anyone can post one for free in seconds) and a discussion board (that will hopefully gain the traction of the former Full Count board). Please let me know what you think. Like it? Hate it? Ideas? All feedback is welcome. The link is http://prewarcards.bravepages.com/ ================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:08:25 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Prewar Trading Website To: AMCOOK93@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com andy: i think anything that facilitates trading and discussion is great. but i am a little concerned that this new site might remove activity from the obc and vct groups. if everyone has their want lists posted, including pre-war needs, i'm not sure what the purpose of the new site is. ================= Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 16:50:52 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: '51 Topps Red/Bluebacks From: jimbo@albany.net I'm coming along nicely with my '51 Redbacks. I see that the bluebacks are going to be a challenge, though! Speaking of which - I have exactly four of the plastic pages that hold these cards. Does anyone know where I could get more? The dealer I got these from had only the four. ================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:23:54 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Prewar Trading Website From: Neal Thomas It looks great--a pre-war discussion board will be very informative, and since I usually ask you and a few other OBCers my pre-war questions, your message board will be a great place to put it. Nice ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: amcook93@aol.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Prewar Trading Website Date: 12/02/2001 11:01am To facilitate discussion, trading, collecting of prewar cards, I set up a simple website this weekend that has a classified ad feature (anyone can post one for free in seconds) and a discussion board (that will hopefully gain the traction of the former Full Count board). Please let me know what you think. Like it? Hate it? Ideas? All feedback is welcome. The link is http://prewarcards.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Promise to Quit Nicotrol will help http://us.click.yahoo.com/5vN8tD/AqSDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Available : 1972 Kellogg's Babe Ruth #15 Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:44:33 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" One of the best vintage guys on ebay, Bob Marquette ("tbob") sent me a bonus in the last shipment, so I thought I'd pass it along to someone in OBC who's working on the set. Priority given to anyone I owe, then FCFS. Cheers, Tim ================= Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 23:16:38 -0500 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, Subject: TEST - TEST - TEST From: Mark S Talbot Hello All, Dave Fallen called me today (just the 3rd OBC'er I've actually talked to), he let me know that he has made it back to the net and has a new email address. You can now reach Dave at: Dave also asked me to add him to the mail groups which is the purpose of this message. Dave you should be receiving (4) copies of this note (as is everybody else), one for each of the mail groups. LMK that your getting them REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * ================= To: Subject: Available claimed Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 22:46:58 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" The Kellogg's Ruth card has been claimed-- I'm happy to say it completes someone's set. Cheers-- Tim ================= Date: 3 Dec 2001 08:17:00 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for OBC-Ramblings The following OBC-Ramblings poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Which of these current N.L. teams is your "least" fav? Vote by Dec 1st, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. Pick up to 4 this time. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Mets, 5 votes, 10.20% - Expos, 4 votes, 8.16% - Phillies, 0 votes, 0.00% - Reds, 2 votes, 4.08% - Cards, 1 votes, 2.04% - Braves, 10 votes, 20.41% - Pirates, 0 votes, 0.00% - Diamondbacks, 1 votes, 2.04% - Padres, 0 votes, 0.00% - Giants, 2 votes, 4.08% - Rockies, 1 votes, 2.04% - Marlins, 3 votes, 6.12% - Dodgers, 3 votes, 6.12% - Astros, 0 votes, 0.00% - Cubs, 1 votes, 2.04% - Brewers, 1 votes, 2.04% - I pick the Mets again!, 2 votes, 4.08% - I pick the Expos again!, 2 votes, 4.08% - Yankees :-P, 8 votes, 16.33% - Team with the most non-USA born players., 0 votes, 0.00% - Team with the most blacks., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Mark McGwire. , 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Hideo Nomo., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Luis Gonzalez., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Barry Bonds., 3 votes, 6.12% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Mets - nthomas@pol.net - pearceg@ev1.net - keithsummers@webtv.net - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - debrick@onemain.com - Expos - tnbw@gci.net - Sweendoger@aol.com - keithsummers@webtv.net - debrick@onemain.com - Phillies - Reds - RWP521@AOL.COM - alcattle@hotmail.com - Cards - Sweendoger@aol.com - Braves - nthomas@pol.net - KEVINM38@aol.com - JEdward@aol.com - alcattle@hotmail.com - bdonaldson@callisma.com - geordie@cell2000.net - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - debrick@onemain.com - tknowles@mocc.com - tldietrick@yahoo.com - Pirates - Diamondbacks - alcattle@hotmail.com - Padres - Giants - geordie@cell2000.net - keithsummers@webtv.net - Rockies - tnbw@gci.net - Marlins - RWP521@AOL.COM - tnbw@gci.net - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - Dodgers - dan@iamdanaustin.com - RWP521@AOL.COM - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - Astros - Cubs - Sweendoger@aol.com - Brewers - pearceg@ev1.net - I pick the Mets again! - nthomas@pol.net - debrick@onemain.com - I pick the Expos again! - tnbw@gci.net - keithsummers@webtv.net - Yankees :-P - nthomas@pol.net - dan@iamdanaustin.com - RWP521@AOL.COM - KEVINM38@aol.com - geordie@cell2000.net - pearceg@ev1.net - talbot1@home.com - tknowles@mocc.com - Team with the most non-USA born players. - Team with the most blacks. - Any team with Mark McGwire. - Any team with Hideo Nomo. - Any team with Luis Gonzalez. - Any team with Barry Bonds. - alcattle@hotmail.com - geordie@cell2000.net - Sweendoger@aol.com For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ ================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:19:37 EST Subject: FT Washington mini-gathering To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: HMorgan707@aol.com I joined Steve Rittenberg, Morganti and Ed Schott on Saturday and we swapped some cards. Good catching up with the guys. Newguy Schott really loves them Orioles! Looks like we are filling up all wantlists rapidly. What to collect next? Thanks guys. It is always fun! ================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:31:52 EST Subject: The spirit of OBC To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com The spirit of OBC, shown in old and new members: Ed Schott recently sent me a few from my 65 list. In my thanks I mentioned that I was close to completing the set. New guy Ed immediately finds two additional cards from the list and old (vintage?) member Jim Wiehe doesn't find any in his dupe box so he goes to his binder to take cards out and help me on the way to the completion of the set. With the cards from these two great OBCers I am only 2 cards away, and know of an online dealer that should be able to help me on those. It's great to be a member of this group!! Rest well, ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Show report Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:41:23 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" I am drawing down my savings but I went to the Fort Washington, Pennsylvania show this weekend anyway..... I got to the show about 4:43 pm Friday and saw about 50 people in line. Members get in early (at 4:45) so I walked to the front of the line and (not so) innocently asked if there was a separate line for members. They said no. I figured (not so innocently) that since there was only a minute until the show opened, there was no real need to walk all the way to the backof the line, just to have to walk again to the front when they let all themembers skip ahead. I thought no one I knew had seen my trick but a few minutes later I hear "Rittenberg! I saw you cut to the front of the line." It was Howard Morgan. Luckily for me, he didn't beat me up for my heinous We looked through Mike Wheat's bargain boxes. Didn't seem like there was as much great stuff as usual. There was a great big pile of Obaks for $5 but I didn't have Jim Hatchs list. (Side note: I can add web pages to my Palm 3 and check them at the show. Now Jim's page has been added to the ones that I carry around. LMK if you want to know how you can do this.) Later Brett Domue came by Mike's table and heard about the Obaks. Brett scooped up the HOFers. I ended up with a few pieces of junk from the bargain box, nothing special. I did find some great stuff in his cases: 1934Goudey Greenberg for just $30 ! Other highlights from Friday night include my first Allen & Ginter baseball card from Bill Henderson's box for just $10. When I showed it to a friendly dealer, he immediately offered me $20 so I know I did something right for a change. I got to the show Saturday started up the search again. My first stop wasat a Canadian dealer I met at the National, Larry Kerrigan. You may remember him as the guy who had the "2/3 of a Mickey Mantle" on ebay. I bought a 1980-81 basketball set from him -- DETACHED. So now I have extra detached cards if anyone else is dumb enough to work on these. An hour later, a guy saw me and said "you look like another one of those OBC guys". Turns out it was rookie Ed Schott. I hadn't brought anything for him but fortune smiled on me and I found something he liked. As I was looking through a bargain box elsewhere, a dealer accidentally gouged a 1956 Colts Team card while he was trying to split open the PSA holder. He was pretty mad so he ripped the card in half and through it out. I told him I'd takethe card so he fished the two halves out of the trash and gave me some tape to tape it back together. This card is now a proud member of Ed's collection. Ken and I had hoped to see Bob Reed and meet Robert Pigeon at the show but neither appeared. Nor did Roger Neufeldt, OBC friendly dealer. I spentthe next hour or so dragging Howard from table to table where I thought hemight find things he liked. I might be inspired to work on a '50s Callahan set after seeing him work on them. The show ended and Ken and I went for pizza followed by a trip up to ex-obcer Joe Greco. When I asked if itwas ok for me to come up to Joe's house, he said it was fine as long as I didn't give him any cards. Last time I was at Joe's house, he wasn't there but Ken and I found his list so I secretly left a pile of cards for Joe without him knowing it. Joe paid me back this trip. Late in the night, he opened up a safe where all his best cards are kept. I ended up with a 68-69 Lemaire and 54-55 Kelly, both of which will be the nicest hockey cards I own from those sets. And I got a 1971 Topps Greatest moments Rico Petrocelli for my Red Sox collection. I woke up early Sunday and went back to sorting cards for another hour or so. Around 10:30, Ken and I left Joe's house. Ken headed for home. I went back to the show. I had a T206 in my dupes box but the name was not legible. Ken, Joe and I spent lots of time Saturday night trying to figure out who it was. We even looked through Joe's T206 reprint set for a picture that looked like my card but we couldn't come up with one. I asked dealers Ron Barrett and Kevin Savage about it. They both made their guesses and I tried to find the player the guess so I could confirm the guess but no luck. When I got home, I looked again in my T206 reprint set. After 2 more passes through the set, I finally figured out it was a stinkin' Yankee. Well, a "N.Y., Amer" anyway. All in all, I had a great time. The only thing that would have made it better would have been more OBCers. I tried not to add cards to my dupes box but couldn't resist. Thanks for reading! ================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:26:21 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Smoltzie (fwd) From: Josephine Sue Young I was bored enough to ramble to Rob Neyer today. To my surprise he wrote back fairly quickly. The original article is at the ESPN site. His response is on top...my ramble below. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:04:14 -0800 From: Rob Neyer To: 'Josephine Sue Young' Subject: RE: Smoltzie You know what's funny? When I write a column like today's, I get a bunch of notes from actual economists. Half of them are like yours, telling me I don't know what the hell I'm talking about ... and other half tell me that it's wonderful to find economics in a baseball column, even though I might not have got every detail exactly right. > -----Original Message----- > From: Josephine Sue Young [SMTP:jsyoung@emory.edu] > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:56 PM > To: Rob Neyer > Subject: Smoltzie > As an economist, your article regarding atlanta's beloved John Smoltz made > me cringe. I'll forego any lesson in formal economics and stick to your > can of beans example. First, it's absurd to suggest the any rational > person would pay more for a product than it's worth to them. Thus, if > there is only one can of beans in the world and everybody were bidding for > it, it would go to the person who valued it the most (and probably for a > lot more than $20). Now, if I were the person selling the can of beans, > would I estimate its value at the price the person with the highest value > would pay, or the price at which the average consumer would buy the can? > Clearly I expect the value to be the price I would recieve for the > can...the higher of the two prices which is the market value. The reason > there is a "curse" is that the winner has paid more than anyone else would > for the can. Thus, if he decides to sell it, he will lose money. It is > quite possible however that the person buying the can of beans got a great > deal too. But that relates to the complimentarity of the good in > question...which reverts us back to the baseball analysis... > Consider the 2001 baseball season...what would be the value of a pitcher > who can always get the last three outs in world series, but cannot get > any other outs? The value to the expos (or any other team not in the world > series) would be close to zero, but this pitcher would be worth more to > the yankees because they had the comlimentary players to make his skills > highly valuable. Would the yankees be overpaying this pitcher if they > offered him 10 million for 1 inning of work? Probably not. Would the > Expos be overpaying him at 50 cents? Probably. So the question really is > does adding Smoltz at 10 million per year help or hurt the franchise. > That is actually a more difficult question than it might look like. From > a "chance to win a World Series" standpoint, I think it probably hurts. > That 10 million could have brought a big bat to Atlanta which would win > more games than Lightenberg would lose as a closer. However, Atlantans > love Smoltz. I think the fans here would prefer a 10% chance of winning > the Series with Smoltz over a 20% chance of winning without Smoltz. I > don't blame the fans for this sentiment, and I appreciate the > owner's/GM's recognition of this. So although ignorance of baseball's > heirarchy is often demonstrated, signing Smoltz gives me hope that there > are a few baseball people who actually care about what the fans want. > Mac Wubben ================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:58:31 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for OBC-Ramblings From: Jerry Coker On 3 Dec 2001 OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com wrote: > Which of these current N.L. teams is your "least" fav? > - Braves, 10 votes, 20.41% Aaaak...I'm hurt ;) I guess success can breed ill feelings. Although I sure wish we could win another World Series...particularly by sweeping the Yankees :) BTW, what was the mission/goal of this poll? To find out who should be contracted? If I lost the Atlanta Braves, I'd be heartbroken. Well...I guess I could go back to being a Giants fan pretty easilly. Living in SF during the 60's was a blast! My fondest memories of baseball are still Candlestick Park, hotdogs, hot cocoa (it was bloody cold in Candlestick), Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Gaylord Perry, Juan Marichal..., bubblegum cards (I can still taste the bubblegum!). Ahhh...childhood memories :) Jerry Coker Computer Network Support Career Services Center University of Georgia ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: eBay assistance needed Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:23:58 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" If anybody is planning on listing an item on ebay within the next day or two please email me directly. I'm having a problem with a seller and I'd like to know how one of the checkout features work. Bob R. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:43:27 EST Subject: Anyone want a '41 Double Play? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jocraig@aol.com I tried to unload this pair of Indians on Mr. Indian (Bill M.) but he already has the card. It's Ken Keltner and Hal Trotsky (#79,80). If anyone is interested, let me know. FCFS. ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: 1964 Availables! Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:05:24 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" Hi guys! Thanks to my recent ebay win, I've got some 1964s up for grabs. Get 'em while they're bent! 14 16 17 18 20 24 26 30 43 45 51 52 63 72 76 90 96 97 102 105 110 121 122 126 131 141 142 145 149 157 169 170 171 173 179 185 192 195 199 208 209 214 249 255 256 274 305 319 405 Glenn Codere Glasgow, Scotland ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: ebay Mantle Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:50:08 -0800 From: "John Collins" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1039305797 What am I missing about this card that makes it worth a $500 bid (and still hasn't met reserve)? High book is only $250, and card appears to be VG at best. Either an extreme shill bid or somebody needs some serious BB card advice. ================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:14:14 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: WOHR! From: Originaleek@webtv.net Got what looked like a typical envelope from OBC land. Some place in Illinois called Napervlle. The kind of name that lulls one into a sense of peace and serenity. The envelope from one Larry Zurawski contained a nice hit to my 65 list. That hit was followed by Frank Howard, the final card on my 73 list. In my estimation that was not just a hit, but the equivalent of a Walk Off Home Run. I tucked the big guy in the binder next to fellow big guy, Willie Horton and put the 73's to bed. Thanks a bunch Larry you will be forever remembered on my wantlist as the guy who "brought em home". Happy Holidays to all. ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" , Subject: black beauty availables Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:06:48 -0500 From: "John Collins" I have the following 1971 Topps available, FCFS. Most fall into the VG range. Say the word and they are yours: 75, 81, 96, 118, 158(2), 167, 172, 173, 175, 218, 242, 353, 363, 383, 432. John C. Collins ================= Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:37:44 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Tri-City ValleyCats! From: jimbo@albany.net I ordered my season tickets today for the Tri-City ValleyCats - the new New York-Penn league franchise of the Houston Astros which is relocating to Troy New York. I'm psyched to have an affiliated team here again. We used to have the AA Yankees, but lost them to Norwich CT several years ago. The local Independent League team is fun, but it's just not the same as an affiliated franchise. Play Ball! ================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:55:06 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] ebay Mantle To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Hello jcollins12@triad.rr.com (John Collins), In reference to your comment: =E8 =E8 hrefmip://{relative}>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayIS =E8 API.dll?ViewItem&item1039305797 JC, from the looks of the back, it may be lucky to be a G..so if we figure "hi book" as 200.00, then the lead bidder is overpaying right now about 70 bucks. Sheesh! Original Message Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] ebay Mantle Date: 12/4/01 4:25:35 PM Eastern Standard Time From: jcollins12@triad.rr.com (John Collins) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1039305797 What am I missing about this card that makes it worth a $500 bid (and still hasn't met reserve)? High book is only $250, and card appears to be VG at best. Either an extreme shill bid or somebody needs some serious BB card advice. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: < Received: from rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (rly-yc04.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.36]) by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINYC510-1204162535; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:25:35 -0500 Received: from n10.groups.yahoo.com (n10.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.60]) by rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC410-1204155336; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 15:53:36 -0500 Received: from [216.115.97.162] by n10.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2001 20:50:10 -0000 X-Sender: jcollins12@triad.rr.com X-Apparently-To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_2); 4 Dec 2001 20:50:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 11574 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2001 20:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Dec 2001 20:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.mailstart.com) (207.231.76.67) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Dec 2001 20:50:08 -0000 Received: from muave [207.231.76.117] by mail.mailstart.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A700D3300CA; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 12:50:08 -0800 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: <041201338.46208@webbox.com> From: "John Collins" X-Yahoo-Profile: jccollins12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com; contact Delivered-To: mailing list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:50:08 -0800 Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] ebay Mantle ================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:19:58 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Tri-City ValleyCats! To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: WMDpks@aol.com In a message dated 12/4/2001 8:42:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, jimbo@albany.net writes: > I ordered my season tickets today for the Tri-City ValleyCats - the > new New York-Penn league franchise of the Houston Astros which is > relocating to Troy New York. I'm psyched to have an affiliated team > here again. We used to have the AA Yankees, but lost them to Norwich > CT several years ago. The local Independent League team is fun, but > it's just not the same as an affiliated franchise. Play Ball! Did the Astros move there from Pittsfield by any chance? Last year that team was pretty good but they all moved up to AA or sideways to long season A ball. My family and I had a chance to see the old Waconah Park in Pittsfield last year and to our surprise they let us on the field after the game to run the bases and roam the outfield. My son and I must have been out there for almost an hour and we got some great pictures. Waconah Park is the "Fenway Park of minor league baseball," over a hundred years old, really falling apart and believe it or not the park faces due west, which was never a problem during day games but for evening games there is usually a 20-minute "sun delay" where they wait for the sun to set so the batters can see the ball being pitched. I'd really be sorry to hear if they don't have any team using that park this year because it's the last of the true old-time minor league parks. Wayne M. Delia, WMDpks@aol.com Grand Delta, North Atlantic Region, Phi Kappa Sigma International Fraternity "To do what ought to be done, but would not be done unless I did it, I thought to be my duty." (Robert Morrison, 1849) ================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:24:36 EST Subject: BAD EBAY SELLER To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com It seems we need to be careful even when an ebay seller has an apparent favorable feedback rating. I won two auctions on ebay from Bob Bennett who sells under the name Cardsnvideos@yahoo.com. He had a rating of 2238 so I felt it was safe to buy from him. He cashed my check, but did not send me my winnings, and has not responded to my emails. I looked at his feedback tonight. While he has 2238 positive feedbacks (from 1788 buyers), he also has 21 neutrals and 81 negatives, which means that 1 out of 20 people did not have positive things to say about this buyer. ================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:08:04 EST Subject: Update on Up For Grabs List To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: lzurawski@aol.com I'm sending something to each of you who responded to my up for grabs posting over the weekend. There are a total of about 30 packages. Most went out Saturday or Monday, but I still haven't sent the biggest ones because I need to get my hands on some appropriate packaging. They might not go out until next week because I'll be out of town for a long weekend. I decided not to respond to requests individually, because I figure it will be more fun to wait for the mailman to see what I sent. Larry Z. ================= To: Subject: Big AL Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:57:58 -0800 From: "Diamanti" Well Guys: I spoke with Big Al's wife, Dottie, this evening. Al's surgery was pushed back today, but eventually the procedure started. (he went in to have a heart valve replaced). They had trouble getting the valve to attach to the vessel - - it kept tearing out. Dottie said they had to put a patch on it to hold it in place. It was actually touch and go for awhile during the procedure and Al's family was very shook up. Dottie told me that Al came out of the surgery OK, with minimal bleeding, and that he is in the ICU area and breathing on his own already - definitely a good sign. I will keep all of you posted on Al's progress as I hear more. I told Dottie that OBCers wouldbe sending along prayers, good wishes, etc. We sure don't want to lose ourSpiritual Leader during such troubled times......Holiday Blessings ..... Mike ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: PayPal Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:36:04 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" Guys and Girl, I've avoided signing up for Pay Pal on ebay all this time because I'm afraid I might get carried away. Well, I just won an item for my wife for Christmas and decided to finally sign up so I can pay for it. There used to be a $5.00 referral for getting somebody to sign up. If that's still in effect then the first person that emails me back, I'll use as a referral. If that's no longer the case than sorry for the -Bob R. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:07:35 EST Subject: Obaks--oh my To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com Well, ummm...since the t-205s, '53 B/W, and '59 Fleer are all real short lists now, people are always asking me to add stuff to my list since it is getting short, i added the '55 bowman but my urge to add another pre-war set became too strong...i decided it would be time so, after some reasearch and a little personal touch, i decided to try the obak sets...yep, the pcl is cool and i love cards with stats and bios which the last set has...wantlist is currently--anything...i only have one obak and cant even read the name on it...condition, as long as i can read the name and back, i am happy. i think i have definitely gone crazy.... ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] PayPal Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:09:49 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" Thanks Bob, And congratualtions on your quick typing. -Bob R. >From: "Bob Donaldson" >Reply-To: >To: "Robert Reed" >Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] PayPal >Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:47:48 -0500 >You can use me. >thanks either way! >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Reed [mailto:boreed@hotmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:36 PM >To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] PayPal >Guys and Girl, >I've avoided signing up for Pay Pal on ebay all this time because I'm >I might get carried away. Well, I just won an item for my wife for >Christmas and decided to finally sign up so I can pay for it. >There used to be a $5.00 referral for getting somebody to sign up. If >that's still in effect then the first person that emails me back, I'll use >as a referral. If that's no longer the case than sorry for the >-Bob R. >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:24:40 EST Subject: need directory To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com can someone send out the latest directory please, thanks ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Stadium Pics]] Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 02:54:47 From: "jeff sinclair" Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 21:07:21 -0500 From: FRANK ADAMS To: John McKibbin , Subject: [Fwd: FW: Stadium Pics] From: Frank Adams To: "'frankadams@home.com'" Subject: FW: Stadium Pics Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:02:16 -0700 Frank M. Adams > -----Original Message----- > From: Manny Martin > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:03 AM > To: Andy Yhelka; Charles Greback; Charles Higgs; Chuck Yanchak; Eric > Williams; Frank Adams; Tom Koloski; Richard Hicks; Robert Johnson; Ron > Chevront; Thomas Belan > Subject: FW: Stadium Pics > <> <> <> < 12.jpg>> <> <> <> > <> <> <> <> > <> <> <> ================= Date: 6 Dec 2001 08:15:53 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for OBC-Ramblings The following OBC-Ramblings poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Which of these current A.L. teams is your "least" favorite? Vote by Dec 4th, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. Pick up to 4 this time. CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yankees, 15 votes, 30.61% - Mariners, 1 votes, 2.04% - Blue Jays, 3 votes, 6.12% - Tigers, 0 votes, 0.00% - Royals, 1 votes, 2.04% - White Sox, 0 votes, 0.00% - A's, 1 votes, 2.04% - Rangers, 0 votes, 0.00% - Angels, 1 votes, 2.04% - Devil Rays, 6 votes, 12.24% - Red Sox, 1 votes, 2.04% - Twins, 0 votes, 0.00% - Indians, 2 votes, 4.08% - Orioles, 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Roberto Alomar., 1 votes, 2.04% - Any team with John Rocker., 3 votes, 6.12% - Any team with Al Belle., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Ichiro., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Robert Fick., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Suzuki., 0 votes, 0.00% - Team with the most blacks., 0 votes, 0.00% - Team with most non-USA born players., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Carl Everett., 0 votes, 0.00% - Any team with Juan Gonzalez., 1 votes, 2.04% - I vote Yankees again! :-P, 13 votes, 26.53% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yankees - nthomas@pol.net - dan@iamdanaustin.com - RWP521@AOL.COM - KEVINM38@aol.com - JEdward@aol.com - alcattle@hotmail.com - geordie@cell2000.net - pearceg@ev1.net - talbot1@home.com - Sweendoger@aol.com - keithsummers@webtv.net - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - debrick@onemain.com - tknowles@mocc.com - tldietrick@yahoo.com - Mariners - keithsummers@webtv.net - Blue Jays - tnbw@gci.net - keithsummers@webtv.net - debrick@onemain.com - Tigers - Royals - tnbw@gci.net - White Sox - A's - alcattle@hotmail.com - Rangers - Angels - tnbw@gci.net - Devil Rays - nthomas@pol.net - tnbw@gci.net - bdonaldson@callisma.com - talbot1@home.com - Sweendoger@aol.com - debrick@onemain.com - Red Sox - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - Twins - Indians - nthomas@pol.net - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - Orioles - Any team with Roberto Alomar. - Sweendoger@aol.com - Any team with John Rocker. - KEVINM38@aol.com - alcattle@hotmail.com - bdonaldson@callisma.com - Any team with Al Belle. - Any team with Ichiro. - Any team with Robert Fick. - Any team with Suzuki. - Team with the most blacks. - Team with most non-USA born players. - Any team with Carl Everett. - Any team with Juan Gonzalez. - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - I vote Yankees again! :-P - nthomas@pol.net - dan@iamdanaustin.com - RWP521@AOL.COM - KEVINM38@aol.com - JEdward@aol.com - alcattle@hotmail.com - geordie@cell2000.net - pearceg@ev1.net - talbot1@home.com - Sweendoger@aol.com - keithsummers@webtv.net - debrick@onemain.com - tknowles@mocc.com For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ ================= To: , Subject: Re: OBC Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 05:10:14 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" ----- Original Message ----- From: rhankins@mcguirewoods.com To: illini90@earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:54 AM Subject: RE: OBC Thanks Geno. Let me know if you need anything else from me. Richard B. Hankins McGuireWoods LLP 1170 Peachtree Street, NE Suite 2100 Atlanta, GA 30309 Office Telephone: 404.443.5723 Mobile Telephone: 770.335.7857 Fax: 404.443.5776 email: rhankins@mcguirewoods.com web: www.mcguirewoods.com This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please erase this e-mail immediately without reading it or sending it to anyone else. I would also appreciate your advising me (by return e-mail) if you have received this e-mail by mistake. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Geno Wagner [mailto:illini90@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:38 AM To: rhankins@mcguirewoods.com Subject: OBC Richard -- Hello again! I'm running the membership right now for OBC and noticed your application on the web. I have forwarded it to the group for discussion, so we'll probably have a vote next week. It's a rather drawn out process that takes way too long, but it will be worth it in the end! I'll keep in Take Care, Geno ================= To: , Subject: New Member Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 05:17:45 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Good Morning! First, sorry about the last message, I hit send before I wrote anything! Second, I would like to introduce our newest member - Richard Hankins, to the group! Many of you have already traded with him and the rest of you should, he's an asset to our group. His mentor will be Dan Austin. For the computer dudes, please add Richard to the Directory, mail servers, and wantlist page. Also, the new application page can be cleared (just check to make sure there isn't a new one today). Thanks! Take Care, Geno ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Back on line Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:12:08 -0500 From: "Donna Wells" Merry Christmas to all !!! It is good to have finally completed the move to the big town of Peachland NC. ( pop. 900) There is no cable service, no newspaper service but having a house in the middle of a hay field does have it's advantages. In the process of moving two wonderful things happened to me. First, I became a grandfather for the first time. Oliva Lynn Wells a precious 7 pound girl. Could someone tell me where to get a set of 2001 cards for her? During this time I also was ordained a Southern Baptist minister. Performing most of my duties in the North Corlina prision system. It is a great privilage that I pray I can live up to. If I can be of any assistance or offer aid as a minister I am here. Thank-you and may the blessing of Christmas be you and your family... Rev. Bob Wells..... ================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:23:40 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Digest Number 138 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ehpiii@aol.com ================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:29:37 EST Subject: AOL question To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ehpiii@aol.com Ooops, looks like in cleaning out old emails I may have accidentally sent out a blank response - with concerns about viruses, etc, just wanted to let you know what happened. By the way, if anyone knows how to delete large blocks of old email all at once on AOL, please LMK - thanks. ================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:24:17 EST Subject: TriStar show in Marlborough, Mass. To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Seasons Greetings all! For the first time, this promoter is having a show in New England. It's a three day show next weekend. The details can be found here: http://www.tristarproductions.com/shows/Bos1201/index.htm I'm going Friday after work and probably Saturday morning. If anyone else is going, I'd like to say HI! So far, I know Bob Donaldson is going on Friday. Happy Collecting! ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Ft Washington Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:23:19 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" Since joining OBC, I've heard of the great shows at Ft. Washington, sadly I've never attended one. I believe that I will be working in Frazer, PA for a few months. Does anyone have a schedule of Ft. Washington shows - I'd like to catch one if at all possible. ================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:30:45 -0500 (EST) To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ft Washington From: Neal Thomas here is the expo center webpage. Hope to see you there. http://www.expocenters.com/home.htm ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: "Bob Donaldson" Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Ft Washington Date: 12/06/2001 09:23pm Since joining OBC, I've heard of the great shows at Ft. Washington, I've never attended one. I believe that I will be working in Frazer, PA for a few months. Does anyone have a schedule of Ft. Washington shows - like to catch one if at all possible. ================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 23:05:10 EST Subject: Some Availables--first to claim -Gets To: vct@yahoogroups.com, octraders@yahoogroups.com, From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- these are available- anyone need any of them?--1940 Play Ball # 59- "Rabbit" Warstler--( i have heard old ballplayers worked for peanuts- What did this guy work for ? Carrots??)---1950 bowman # 141---1952 Bowman Hi # 250- Ivan Delock--( i recognize this guy as a hi number 52 topps also --# 329)---1966 topps # 310 - Frank Robinson---1969 topps #'s--581,612,652----1970 topps # 680- Rico Petrocelli ( card says he set AL homer mark for shortstops of 40 in '69)---1953 topps # 195--Ed McGhee-- this one's in nice condition.bye, Linda ================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 01:12:56 EST Subject: Please look at your 61 topps # 372 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- please look at your 61 topps # 372- Bob Hendley- is that a real picture of that guy or a drawing??- i didn't think they used drawings of players on cards as late as the early 60's - 50's yes like the 53 set- but this # 372 card looks like a drawing of the player- anybody have an ================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:42:40 EST Subject: Back problems... To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: XTrJmx@aol.com Hi guys... I was just enjoying reading through the backs of the cards that Mike sent me and noticed something puzzling. On the '59 Topps #5, Dick Donovan, Topps notes that "Dick started in baseball in '47, but it wasn't until 1954 that he found himself at Atlanta where he won 18 games." The problem is that in the complete major league record below, Mr. Donovan *never* played for Atlanta (though he did play for the Boston Braves in '50, '51, and '52), but was with Detroit in '54. However, the maximum number of games Dick won in any given year was 16 for Chicago in '57. Can anyone clear up this confusion? Who was right... the writer of the text or the editor of the stats? Any of you, um, senior members remember? Thanks! ================= To: Subject: Another useless quiz Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:54:33 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Putting off making out my final exams, I made out one for you. There have been 9 pitchers who amassed more than 1000 career at-bats in the majors without hitting a single home run. (This excludes two middle-infielders who happened to pitch a few games, and one 19th-century veteran who split his career between pitching and the field- they don't count.) See how many you can name: -They were all solid-to-great pitchers (can't get 1000 at-bats otherwise), whose cumulative record was 1938-1551 (.555) -All of them won at least 150 games -Only one was under .500 for his career --8 of the 9 appeared in the World Series, winning 19 games and losing 14. -The earliest of the 9 began his ML career in 1899; the latest ended his in -3 of the 9 are HOFers -one had a good chance for the HOF, but made a big mistake along the way -one of them threw a pitch that fractured a HOFer's skull and ended his playing career -one of them, a knuckleballer, played 21 years without ever winning a -one started 338 regular season games only to wind up losing the exact number of games that he won; however, he did win a famous World Series game, striking out 13 even though he was anything but a strikeout pitcher -the single lefthander in the group, although he is not in the HOF, is one of only 20 lefties since 1900 to win 200 games -one went 150-102 in the 1930s, pitched his whole 16-year career for one team, and went 4-1 in 4 World Series GOOD LUCK! ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: OBC-type 58 Maris RC on ebay... Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:09:02 -0500 From: "Gonzalez, Ignacio Alberto" Any takers on this 58 Maris RC??? As my dad used to say - first appearances mean everything. A strategically-placed speck of scotch tape on the back-side, will make this one tower above all the other 58 Tiptons in the old binder... Good luck to the taker.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1041658464 After a 3 month self-imposed exile, looks like I'm back in circulation. Hmmmm...now, what was the last thing I was doing..... Oh yeah, the old Mod-9 auction. It's been a longgg longggg longggg wait for all of yuz (except for Larry Tipton who somehow managed to receive his cards), but all Modular-Nine auction winnings are going out on Monday (and this time I mean it, I've actually have everything (well almost everything) packaged and ready to go). A few winners no longer needed the card they won, so I tried to substitute with some other cardboard. I really wanted to stay quiet until I mailed-out all the packages, since actions speak louder then words. But I just couldn't let this Maris RC sit there without warning somebody... My sincere apologies for not sending the packages in a timely manner. But I always had problems with the curveball. -Lovely Day, Iggy... ================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:34:26 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Back Problems From: Neal Thomas Looks like the "stats" guy was right. Donovans complete stats are at: http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/donovdi01.shtml He was a 20 game winner in 1962 with Cleveland, but not before that card was issued. Hi guys... I was just enjoying reading through the backs of the cards that Mike sent me and noticed something puzzling. On the '59 Topps #5, Dick Donovan, Topps notes that "Dick started in baseball in '47, but it wasn't until 1954 that he found himself at Atlanta where he won 18 games." The problem is that in the complete major league record below, Mr. Donovan *never* played for Atlanta (though he did play for the Boston Braves in '50, '51, and '52), but was with Detroit in '54. However, the maximum number of games Dick won in any given year was 16 for Chicago in '57. Can anyone clear up this confusion? Who was right... the writer of the text or the editor of the stats? Any of you, um, senior members remember? Thanks! ================= To: "VCT" , Subject: 59 Topps back variation question Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:23:22 -0500 From: "John Collins" Can anybody tell me what is the breakdown on the back variations (white vs.grey) for 1959 topps? Are a certain series available in either, or another series in only one color.....or just what. Any info. would be appreciated. John C. Collins ================= Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:13:35 -0500 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Back Problems From: "Brett W. Domue" Don't forget that the Braves didn't move to Atlanta until 1966. The Atlanta mentioned on the back of this card was a minor league team. At 03:34 PM 12/7/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Looks like the "stats" guy was right. Donovans complete stats are at: >http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/donovdi01.shtml >He was a 20 game winner in 1962 with Cleveland, but not before that >card was issued. >Hi guys... I was just enjoying reading through the backs of the cards >that Mike sent me and noticed something puzzling. On the '59 Topps >#5, Dick Donovan, Topps notes that "Dick started in baseball in '47, >but it wasn't until 1954 that he found himself at Atlanta where he >won 18 games." The problem is that in the complete major league >record below, Mr. Donovan *never* played for Atlanta (though he did >play for the Boston Braves in '50, '51, and '52), but was with >Detroit in '54. However, the maximum number of games Dick won in any >given year was 16 for Chicago in '57. Can anyone clear up this >confusion? Who was right... the writer of the text or the editor of >the stats? Any of you, um, senior members remember? Thanks! >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Richmond VA show report Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:24:09 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Well, I wasn't really supposed to go to the show today. It started at 3pmand I needed to be 3 hours away at 8pm. If it was a lousy show I could have made it but it turned out much better than I could have hoped for. My first stop was AG Womble, George Moore's hometown dealer. AG didn't have as much stuff out as usual but with some persistence I ended up with a 54T Rizzuto, 59 Drysdale, 66T Perry and 56 Aparicio for about $29, about half of what I expected. Next stop was at a table with loads and loads of singles, each in a top loader. At the front of the table was an album full of Hostess cards, all miscut as usual. I hoped to get some for Andy Cook but I didn't have his list with me. I called Andy on my way home to let him know of the potential find. I ended up with my last 51B football card, a 68-69 T Gerry Cheevers and a 74-75 Havlicek. I paid a bit more than I wanted but the FB card finished a set and the BKB card is for Ken M. Of course, I later found the same card in a dollar box. Without a doubt, the highlight was "the dollar box guy". People who went to the National should remember him as the guy who had a ring of tables with stuff at 3/$1 on up to $5. At this show, everything was $1. It simplified the math greatly. I immediately went for the non-sports box and found about 70 or so cards, mainly T59 Flags. I had to wait for some other guy to look at every card before I could. And he rejected every card. His loss was my gain. Also found a T37 Turkey Red Automobile, some Get Smart cards and a few others. I found some "OPC Batman" cards I crave but turned them down at $1 each. Right next to non-sport was a few rows of basketball. I pulled out a few for Ken Morganti from his list but don't have the names so I wasn't as successful as I wanted. I also found some Globetrotters cards and I thought "Mike Rich". I looked through about 50 of these but found only one of the three he needs. At the national, I found lots of OPC baseball in the dollar boxes but very little luck this time. I found some 1967 OPC world series cards and the 1968 OPC Mickey Mantle checklist. In between finding all this stuff, I came across a 2 strip cards, one boxer and one Earle Combs, 3 72-73 OPC WHA high numbers and my best pull of the show: a 1976-77 Gordie Howe. I looked through about 10 1962 high number cards and picked them up but no SPs. But wait, there's more! This guy either opens up or buys up some new stuff -- Topps Archives. Maybe its UV but its still a thrill to pull a SeaverRC, Clemente RC and similar cards for $1 each. So I was finally done pulling, or at least exhausted from pulling when I saw a 3000 count box on the floor behind the table. In it were 1200 80-81 basketball panels. I begged to take a look at it. I found almost all the cards I need and pulleda bunch of extras for Larry Zurawski. My list has just a couple of commons on it, plus most of the Bird and/or Magic cards. That's about it for this show report. Between shows, Im able to add a couple more OBC lists to my Palm so I can pull them up at shows. I figure in a year or so, I should probably have the whole OBC website on my palm. Then no one can stop me! MWAH HAHA HAHAHA. ================= Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 12:31:51 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: what am I doing wrong or am I From: "rayluurs" Being compelely computer illeriate when I post my wantlist it seems i must type in all the stuff each and everytime. Is there a way I can cut and paste and then edit off numbers I don't need anymore before sending WHAT AM I DOING WRONG ================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:33:39 EST Subject: Re: Back Problems To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated 12/8/01 7:30:57 AM, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com writes: << Hi guys... I was just enjoying reading through the backs of the cards that Mike sent me and noticed something puzzling. On the '59 Topps #5, Dick Donovan, Topps notes that "Dick started in baseball in '47, but it wasn't until 1954 that he found himself at Atlanta where he won 18 games." The problem is that in the complete major league record below, Mr. Donovan *never* played for Atlanta (though he did play for the Boston Braves in '50, '51, and '52), but was with Detroit in '54. However, the maximum number of games Dick won in any given year was 16 for Chicago in '57. Can anyone clear up this confusion? Who was right... the writer of the text or the editor of the stats? Any of you, um, senior members remember? Thanks! I checked out Donovan's 1957 card (#181) and it also mentioned his 18 wins at Atlanta in 1954. He only pitched 6 innings in the majors that year, so I can assume he spent the rest of the year in the minors. Remember, the Braves were still in Milwaukee at this point in time, so Atlanta very well could have had a minor league franchise at the time... come to think of it, don't they still do? Ken M ================= To: Subject: THE YEAR IN REVIEW Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:13:25 -0600 From: "David Kolenda" 2001 was a slow year for me in OBC terms, but hardly slow in any other area. Early Feb. saw the start of framing for the new house. In Mid June we closed and moved in a week later. In between, the annual trip to Vegas was made. It seems each year the Vegas trip gets a little better and those that make the trip get a little closer. Mikes ribs don't get any better as they have always been the best around. Now if you want to talk about room for improvement we could write 3 pages on Trips golf game ( A subject for later). Moving date into the house put the big halt on making the Natl. for the 3rdyear in a row (yuk). The previous 2 years I was in Ireland, and Kentucky. This years is in Chicago and will not be missed. The term on OBCAC has been a good one, and an easy one compared to some years. A few hard decisions had to be made a few years back. While not all agreed on all decisions, it looks like we are no worse for the wear. Work has been a little better, but still has a long way to go. We finally built a new 11,000 sq. ft. building. This eliminates one we were renting about a mile from the main plant. After doing the general specs and mechanical layout, I was able to turn it over to another to complete the task. Was able to hire a few very talented persons which was suppose to lighten my travel time (YA). All it did was add more complicated jobs to our work load. Will be leaving again tomorrow. 19th flight since 9/11. We are currently working on a machine that will produce 32,225 tortilla shells an hour.Roughly about 12,000 an hour more than anything on the market today. I was able to put a few more baseball sets to bed this year, and decided toadd some football sets to give me something to work on. The dupes box is full. Hope to find some time to send some cards, but willhave a ton of them available when the NAtl. rolls into town. Watch for details from our NATL coordinator (Ken M) coming to an e-mail in the near future. Happy Holidays to ALL David K. I GOT UM, YOU NEED UM, YOU GET UM ================= Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 09:17:34 EST Subject: Mike Kinney reinstatement To: , , From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi gang, Former member Mike Kinney has applied to be reinstated into OBC. As per OBC rules, I am informing the membership so you can make any comments. Please respond by Monday, since I will forward any comments to the OBCAC, which will then vote. Thanks for your help. I am sending this across all the lists so everyone will be covered. Bob D'Angelo ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Availables... Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:09:24 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" Not much response to my list of 1964s last week. Let's try these on for size. Have at 'em! 1953 Bowman: 4 6 1960 Topps: 26 48 137 253 1961 Topps: 5 6 11 12 13 15 16 31 3354 55 56 60 71 75 76 81 82 90 96 99 113 115 121 136 140 147 149 155 162 172 183 209 212 230 237 242 263 264 267 339 354 368 433 444 1965 Topps: 444 479 480 563 Glenn Codere Glasgow, Scotland ================= To: Subject: Big Al Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:45:14 -0800 From: "Diamanti" Well Guys: I'm on hold right now from the CCU area at Virginia Mason, the hospital where Big Al is recovering....... OK, here's what they told me -- Al had the breathing tube removed a couple of days ago and he was rather quiet the first day of his recovery. (Must behard to talk after the trauma of having your CHEST CRACKED OPEN!) The nurse informed me that he is doing remarkably well and coming along just fine.She said his recovery "is a miracle in some ways", but refused to elaborate, repeating instead that he is doing really well and recovering at a goodpace, though not up to having any visitors. He got out of bed yesterday for a short time, and they hope to get him walking today. In a day or two he will be out of CCU and moved upstairs to telemetry, where they can keep track of his heart and start his phsical therapy soon. Since Al has BEEN, and IS, our OBC spiritual leader, and since his recovery"is a miracle in some ways", I think the title, "ST. AL" is entirely appropriate, and I'm going to start working my Vatican connections (remember, I DID go to Rome and see the Big Guy two years ago, well, I saw him from a distance during Mass, and it wasn't a face-to-face, but I was within 500 yards of His Holiness....) and let's see if we can't start a HOLY MAN campaign for ST. AL..... A HOLY MAN campaign is an unofficial Puget Sound designation that can be put on business cards, stationary, and other official correspondence, for the purposes of good will, PR, and the intitiation of discussions beyond grading services, Tipton Mint, vaudeville, how much Morganti caneat, This campaign is informal and spearheaded by me, so feel free to help out in anyway you can. I can collect cards and cash for Big Al, but all donations are confidential and private, known only by me. When Al's physical body catches up with his spiritual one, and he can receive visitors, I will bring him any offerings, I mean dontions, and inform him of his HOLY MAN status. All pkgs. mailed to me should be marked ST. AL or HOLY MAN. Big Al is the name his friends can call him, but ST. AL or HOLY MAN will be his official designation, a term of respect, justified by someone who can work miracles, at least when it comes to surgery or recovery....not to mention obtaining bargain cards at joke prices..... That's it for now, Mikey Dee-oh-manti ================= To: Subject: Diamanti's Holy War Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 11:03:17 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Thanks for the great report Mike! Wish I had more off Al's list, but I pledge 2 TV's (107,186) and a '59 (42). Get well real soon Big Al! ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: available stuff Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:33:45 -0500 From: "Donna Wells" 1957 Topps: (all four sides trimmed) 132, 140, 162 1971 Topps: 124, 171, 179, 217, 220 (SAnto), 227, 228, 235, 241, 261, 362, 421, 429. 1953 Topps Archives: 163, 215 1982 K-mart - Steve Garvey 1987 Topps: 313 (Clemente), 314 (Yaz), 315 (Wills), 300 Reggie Jackson 264 CL, 128 CL, 120 Eddie Murray, 749 Oz, 741 Molitor. 1986 Topps 780 Robin Yount 1988 Donruss DK Trammell, Molitor 1978-79 Topps: 85 (Jo-Jo), 15 Ford, 40 Dave Cowens 1989-90 Hoops: 17 (Lewis), 332, 73, 136 90-91 Hoops: 245, 168, 79, 50, 203 Ewing) The Merriest of The blessings of Christmas to all. ================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 16:21:59 EST Subject: Happy BD To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com Happy Bob Donaldson day as he sends a couple of '72s. Thanks much. ================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:16:35 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Homeland Terrorism! From: Originaleek@webtv.net Good Evening, I was just watching cspan & the Congressional hearings on contraction. How confusing!? I couldn't help but notice that if you were to put a long straggly beard on Bud Selig he'd be a dead-ringer for Bin Laden. Then I got to thinking, has anyone ever seen the two of them in the same place at the same time? The answer, I believe, is no! They are about the same height, weight & build and have that same evil glint in their eye. Also they both speak a language I can't understand and are never seen without an entourage. Most importantly they both use the same tactics and are a huge threat to our American way of life. Maybe I should turn this over for an official OBC inquiry, I mean survey? Whataya think John? We keep what we give away! ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Homeland Terrorism! Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:38:45 -0500 From: "John Collins" If Bud Selig himself is Bin Laden, then are the rest of the owners the Taliban....? Just wondering. ----- Original Message ----- From: Originaleek@webtv.net To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Homeland Terrorism! Good Evening, I was just watching cspan & the Congressional hearings on contraction. How confusing!? I couldn't help but notice that if you were to put a long straggly beard on Bud Selig he'd be a dead-ringer for Bin Laden. Then I got to thinking, has anyone ever seen the two of them in the same place at the same time? The answer, I believe, is no! They are about the same height, weight & build and have that same evil glint in their eye. Also they both speak a language I can't understand and are never seen without an entourage. Most importantly they both use the same tactics and are a huge threat to our American way of life. Maybe I should turn this over for an official OBC inquiry, I mean survey? Whataya think John? We keep what we give away! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 20:11:00 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Homeland Terrorism! To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hey EEK, You've got it wrong, Bud Selig looks like the character who played Moe Greene in "The Godfather." And the way he was getting grilled the other day, Bud was facing the same fate -- right between the eyes! ================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:34:39 EST Subject: Richmond Show Report To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com Thanks to Steve Rittenberg who called me last night, my first stop this morning was the Hostess guy who managed to make three hits on my 76 & 77 sets driving my 1976 Hostess wantlist down to just #28 Cowans (anyone who hits this is in for retribution!) and my 77 Hostess wantlist down to just 4 more! There was a noticeable absense of caramel cards - I was able to find 0 that I needed out of the only 4-5 that were there. I did pick up a bunch of W515s I needed and some stuff to fill my prewar trading box (bunch of canadian goudeys, playballs). I also hit the famous "dollar guy" and picked up about 20 cards for me and 30 for distribution to obc. As with most shows, there was an overabundance of slabbed and shiny cards, and quality obc material at only a few tables -- the only tables that appeared to have the bulk of the business --- a lot of shiny tables had no ================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 01:25:54 EST Subject: eBay To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com I've been trying to do some auctions on eBay, but they are not being accepted. My scans start to upload, but never finish. Any suggestions? ================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:11:16 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Digest Number 215 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated 12/9/01 8:34:16 AM, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com writes: << I've been trying to do some auctions on eBay, but they are not being accepted. My scans start to upload, but never finish. Any suggestions? Try going to keyword "My Place" on AOL. You can upload your pics there (It should be pretty user friendly, since I can do it ) If you have a picture named mantle.jpg then the URL for it in your case would be http://members.aol.com/jdelott/mantle.jpg Hope this helps you out, Ken M ================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:11:54 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Digest Number 215 To: CardClctor@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com In a message dated 12/9/2001 9:11:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, cardclctor@aol.com writes: Try going to keyword "My Place" on AOL. You can upload your pics there should be pretty user friendly, since I can do it ) If you have a picture named mantle.jpg then the URL for it in your case would be http://members.aol.com/jdelott/mantle.jpg Hope this helps you out, Ken M >> Ken is right except on some versions of aol your personal server space is at "my ftp space". Andy ================= To: Subject: The latest Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:50:23 -0500 From: "Chuck Paris" Hi Guys: Thought I'd take a minute to update everyone , just in case anyone's interested ;-) Big changes on the computer front in the last week .... ATT shut me down for a week and in the middle of it our new Dell 4300 P4 1.6Ghz computer arrived. Got it going pretty smoothly with the help of a friend and it is pretty cool as is Windows XP. Got some tax work lined up for this tax season so the wifey is anxious to get me out of the house...... apparently she doesn't think selling baseball cards on eBay is work. On that front, I'm doing pretty well having recovered about 1/4 of what I bought the collection for. I've quit buying completely (although I may needto put on my Santa hat and get me something for my stocking). I did want to go to Ft Washington but that didn't work out A few guys have bought from me and I think they're happy ..... I always take the opportunity to throw in a few extra. I could use your opinions on the eBay market ...... from a buyer's perspective, what do the prices seem like?? I've heard that they are down quite a bit since 9/11 and even before. I don't have a track record to compare against. I'm thinking about shutting down after the holidays and resuming later if the market isn't right. Well, hope all is well...... also, does anyone have Lynn Miller's wantlist and ================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:59:10 EST Subject: Paper, anyone? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: XTrJmx@aol.com Hi all... I know that some of you out there are college football fans and I wanted to offer to pick up a copy of the Omaha World Herald today. They had a terrific section in it about Eric Crouch winning the Heisman last night. Please let me know ASAP if you would like one, as I'm sure their getting tougher by the hour to find on the newsstand. However, since it's the Sunday paper, it should be available throughout the week and I should be able to get extra copies by going down to the paper's customer service center. Also, please let me know if you want the full paper or just the sections pertaining to the Heisman. Take care and have a terrific week... ================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 21:02:34 EST Subject: Notes on Collecting 1934 Batter Ups To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, prewartraders@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com I met a man this weekend who has been working on his batter up set for over 60 years and still hasn't been able to finish the high numbers. (He's relatively rich so it's not a question of money, just scarcity). Anyone working on this set, please send me your wantlist. I'll compare any I get to try to figure out if any of the high numbers are relatively scarcer than others and will post the results. Thanks, Andy ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: some available stuff Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:00:34 -0500 From: "Donna Wells" 1981 Donruss unopened wax pack 1987 Sportflic unopened foil pack 1981 Topps "Hit to Win" unscratched game card 1985 Topps #700 Eddie Murray 1990 "Collect-a-books" have a bunch send your wants.... The merriest of Christmas joy to all ================= Date: 10 Dec 2001 08:20:42 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for OBC-Ramblings The following OBC-Ramblings poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Does Pete Rose belong in the HOF? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. CHOICES AND RESULTS - YES!, 4 votes, 19.05% - Yes, if he apologizes., 5 votes, 23.81% - Yes, but only if he is exonerated., 5 votes, 23.81% - Not sure, 2 votes, 9.52% - No, even if he apologizes., 4 votes, 19.05% - NO! Even if he is exonerated I say NO!, 1 votes, 4.76% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - YES! - KEVINM38@aol.com - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - tldietrick@yahoo.com - MatShirley@aol.com - Yes, if he apologizes. - nthomas@pol.net - dan@iamdanaustin.com - bdangelo@aol.com - geordie@cell2000.net - debrick@onemain.com - Yes, but only if he is exonerated. - JEdward@aol.com - alcattle@hotmail.com - pearceg@ev1.net - Sweendoger@aol.com - talbot1@home.com - Not sure - keithsummers@webtv.net - boreed@hotmail.com - No, even if he apologizes. - RWP521@AOL.COM - bdonaldson@callisma.com - dsh46@aol.com - tknowles@mocc.com - NO! Even if he is exonerated I say NO! - tnbw@gci.net For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ ================= Date: 10 Dec 2001 08:20:42 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for OBC-Ramblings The following OBC-Ramblings poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Does Roger Maris belong in the Hall of Fame? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Email votes can NOT be added. CHOICES AND RESULTS - NO!, 10 votes, 47.62% - probably not, 9 votes, 42.86% - not sure, 1 votes, 4.76% - probably so, 1 votes, 4.76% - YES!, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - NO! - RWP521@AOL.COM - JEdward@aol.com - bdonaldson@callisma.com - bdangelo@aol.com - geordie@cell2000.net - pearceg@ev1.net - Sweendoger@aol.com - talbot1@home.com - dsh46@aol.com - keithsummers@webtv.net - probably not - nthomas@pol.net - dan@iamdanaustin.com - KEVINM38@aol.com - alcattle@hotmail.com - debrick@onemain.com - tknowles@mocc.com - tldietrick@yahoo.com - MatShirley@aol.com - boreed@hotmail.com - not sure - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - probably so - tnbw@gci.net - YES! For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ ================= Date: 10 Dec 2001 08:20:41 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for OBC-Ramblings The following OBC-Ramblings poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Does Gil Hodges belong in the HOF? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. CHOICES AND RESULTS - NO!, 3 votes, 15.00% - probably not, 6 votes, 30.00% - not sure, 1 votes, 5.00% - probably so, 5 votes, 25.00% - YES!, 5 votes, 25.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - NO! - pearceg@ev1.net - keithsummers@webtv.net - tknowles@mocc.com - probably not - JEdward@aol.com - alcattle@hotmail.com - bdonaldson@callisma.com - Sweendoger@aol.com - cjmdpi@mail.goldengate.net - debrick@onemain.com - not sure - tldietrick@yahoo.com - probably so - nthomas@pol.net - dan@iamdanaustin.com - KEVINM38@aol.com - talbot1@home.com - boreed@hotmail.com - YES! - tnbw@gci.net - bdangelo@aol.com - geordie@cell2000.net - dsh46@aol.com - MatShirley@aol.com For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ ================= To: "Chuck Paris" , Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] The latest Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 06:33:22 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" Hi Chuck, It seems to me that Ebay prices are down quite a bit. I did a lot of buying last year, mainly Goudeys, T206 and some Topps/Bowman from the early 50's. I stopped buying this summer and have started up again both buying and selling. Prices seem down as best I can tell. ================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:14:44 EST Subject: HOF List To: Smartalecx@aol.com From: smartalecx@aol.com does anyone know where i might find a listing of hall of fame indictees broken down by the year of induction? ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Re: TriStar show in Marlborough, Mass. Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:10:08 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Do people think this will be a good show? Good enough for me to drive up for a few days, visit family/friends and go to the show over the weekend? Anyone want to host an OBC party for all the New England folks? I'd love to meet some people for the first time and hand out some of my dupes. LMK. AOL IM: srittenber Message: 6 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:24:17 EST From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Subject: TriStar show in Marlborough, Mass. Seasons Greetings all! For the first time, this promoter is having a show in New England. It's a three day show next weekend. The details can be found here: http://www.tristarproductions.com/shows/Bos1201/index.htm I'm going Friday after work and probably Saturday morning. If anyone else is going, I'd like to say HI! So far, I know Bob Donaldson is going on Friday. Happy Collecting! ================= To: smartalecx@aol.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF List Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:58:10 -0800 From: "John Collins" Go to the hall of fame website: There they have lists and you can break down the HOFers by voting percentage, year of induction, team, position, favorite jockstrap color, etc. Hope this helps. >--- Original Message --- >From: smartalecx@aol.com >To: Smartalecx@aol.com >Date: 12/10/01 8:14:44 AM >does anyone know where i might find a listing of hall of fame >broken down by the year of induction? > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:52:04 EST Subject: Need help with value of Mecca's To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda- i think one of the big benefits of being an OBC member is being able to get expert advice from old time card collectors in the group on the value of older cards so i don't get ripped off or grossly overcharged-scum dealers don't have morals but OBC members do! i was at a hotel card show yesterday and saw some of those Mecca folder cards that look like the 1950's topps double headers- they were in VG-EX condition- the dealer wanted $40 each- is that a good price for these cards?? the only player i recognized the name of was Cicotte- wasn't he later on the White Sox and got banned in the betting fix of 1919?? this is a card which looks like it is way before he was in that scandal- he is even on some other team- this has to be the same Cicotte involved in the scandal- is his mecca folder card worth $40?? also i got a T206 tobacco card for $5 of Dunn --Brooklyn-does any member have a Baseball Encyclopedia which lists the statistics of players- i would like to know this guys first name and how many years he played and any other info on him--i also picked up a 1934 Goudey #15 Alvin Crowder of the Senators at the show in real nice sharp EX condition for $5. i don't know the value of the Mecca's but i know an old Goudey in EX condition for $5 is worth it- thanks for any information you can give me- Linda ================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:07:58 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1971 s Up For Grabs From: "coop951" I bought an 1971 OBC lot on e bay just to pass around for the holiday season. Let me know what you need and I will send them out.Alot of the cards have small pen or pencil marks on the back around the numbers but are really nice cards otherwise.I know most of you dont care. Take as many as you want and anyone who would like whatever is left over after all requests are made can have the rest.Im determined to send them all out. 71s Up For Grabs: ================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:13:52 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Need help with value of Mecca's To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com a doublefolder of cicotte in vg/ex is worth more than $40. he is the same as the black sox ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: eBay item 1044315529 (Ends Dec-12-01 153907 PST ) - 61TOPPS # 300 MICKEY MANTLE Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:36:41 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" OBC condition Mantle ends in two days. Dealer has an Aaron too! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1044315529 ================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 03:07:08 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Moose! From: "jimbo777777" Thanks going out tonight to Andy Cook, who sends along a beautiful Tipton Mint Moose Skowron, '62 Post variety. Card Number ONE in that great set from my childhood. Thanks Andy, the Moose is a beautiful sight to these sore eyes! ================= To: Subject: Talk about an unselfish act! Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:08:52 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" We all know Big Al (St. Al to some) is in hospital for heart surgery, and hasn't had a real good time. Listen to this. About 3 months ago, Al emailed me every now and then, asking if I had gotten an envelope from him. I kept saying no, what did you send, in case I missed a Thank You. He wouldn't tell me, just checked every now and then. He said he had some repaying to do, and this envelope just might do it. Never got it, might have been in with those 10,000 stolen pieces of mail recovered by the RCMP not far from me, who knows? Big (St.) Al was up here for a card show about 3 weeks back, and Tiger Dave was there, and they finally got to meet up. Dave was delighted to meet "alcattle", (Ebay ID) who has been a regular customer for quite some time. After about 15 seconds, Al said to Dave, "I might be going crazy, didn't I buy an OPC Ozzie Smith rookie from you that I was going to send to Grant?" Dave said "Yes, and I didn't tell him." The card never made it here, and it had St. Al quite perturbed. Now here's a guy who goes home, gets ready for serious heart surgery. Goes out and finds another OPC Ozzie rookie, which arrived today. Looks like the envelope may have been addressed by one of his daughters actually, I don't think St. Al's penmanship is that good...it reminds me of my own. (I'm not going to mention how cranky he is first thing in the morning.) I admit it took me a bit to figure out "alcattle"...before I met Al, I thought he must be a farmer or something. After a while, the light bulb went into the "on" position....al-c-attle. Geez. I continue to be amazed by members of this group. This may have belonged ont he Thanks server, but I thought it was worth a Ramble. Good luck Al! ================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:10:37 -0500 To: vct@yahoogroups.com,octraders@yahoogroups.com, Subject: "Cards for Kids" 2001 - REMINDER! From: Dan Austin Well, the Christmas season is fast upon coming us, so I wanted to send out one final reminder about the 2001 "Cards for Kids" Program. Cards are already rolling in to Dr. Manary. I'd like to encourage you to take this opportunity and dig out some goodies that might brighten some kid's day. A few cards or a zillion - both will be greatly appreciated. Attached is the original message, in case you missed it the first time. For the past few years, members from many of the web's top notch baseball card trading groups have gotten together and given up some of their sports cards in order to make a donation to St. Louis Children's Hospital. Our intent has been to lift the spirits of some kids who probably didn't want to be there, while at the same time providing them with some goodies in the hopes of spreading the joy of trading cards. It was all a very simple effort but one that we hoped would add a few smiles to some young faces and provide the children with a little something they may not otherwise have had. The project has been a huge success with great participation across many card groups, and we have collected 10's of thousands of cards during this time along with card supplies, various toys, ball caps, ball gloves, etc. As it so happens, the pediatrician who hands out the cards is a baseball card fan as well and has generously agreed to head up the effort again this year. (edited from last year's message) Dr. Mark Manary: "I am a pediatrician in the St. Louis Children's Hospital emergency room. Last Christmas we had something special to give our young visitors on the days around Christmas. There were some donated baseball cards from a trading card group, I was told. Neatly boxed, we offered them to boys and girls of school age. The response was magnificent. Squeals of delight as they recognized current and recent Cardinals (St. Louis is a baseball town). Whether the trip to the ER was for something simple like stitches or something serious like a systemic infection, the cards did bring joy to these young hearts. For our very young visitors another group donated stuffed animals, so it was nice to have the cards to offer the older kids. It was a great way to bring a some cheer at Christmas time, a superb service project. I would be eager to see baseball card collectors do it again. Members could send me their donated cards and I would package them in envelopes and distribute them at Christmas at the hospital to our young collectors." This is a great opportunity to spread some good cheer and to clear out some extra cards at the same time. Got a ton of dupes you don't know what to do with? Send em! New cards? Old Cards? Football? Basketball? Baseball? Hockey? NASCAR? Send em! Whatever you have to send would be great. Since this will be targeted at kids in the St. Louis area, Cardinals/Rams cards, or cards of Cards stars from the past or present would probably be especially prized. A Mark McGwire or Albert Pujols card here and there would probably make some kid's week. But, whether you are simply clearing out some dupes or unwanted cards, or selecting a few "treasures" from your collection, please know that any effort on your part will be greatly appreciated by these children. In the past, various trading card organizations have spearheaded this effort, but I believe it has grown well beyond any single group. Its a powerful effort of good will that we all can participate in. Dr. Manary again has graciously offered to be the point of contact for the donations this year. You can send donations of all shapes and sizes to him at the following address: "Cards for Kids" c/o Dr. Mark Manary 7435 Flora Avenue St. Louis. MO 63143 e-mail: Manary@kids.wustl.edu Mark notes that "It would be great to receive tons of cards (of all kinds)", so fire away! Pass the word to your collecting buddies! Thanks for your support! Thanks for reading to the end, and may God bless you and yours during this holiday season. - Dan Austin ================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:54:13 EST Subject: Does this guy pitch right or left handed?? To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, octraders@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- while searching for cards off fellow OCT member Braves fan Dennis Medbourn's want list i noticed something unusual about pitcher Lou Burdette-check out his 1959 topps card # 440 and his 1963 topps card # 429- on the 59 topps card his glove is on his right hand and pitching left handed- on the 63 topps card his glove is on his left hand and he is pitching right handed- -was this guy right or left handed or both??? Linda ================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:48:30 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OCTraders@yahoogroups.com Subject: The feel of the Red Sox... From: Neal Thomas ...in the words of Nomar. Great ESPN.com article: http://espn.go.com/gammons/s/2001/1209/1292554.html ================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:08:13 EST Subject: Tiger Dave To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com I bought my first card from Tiger Dave, a 49B Bob Lemon for about $30. The card never arrived. When I notified him again this week that the card still had not arrived the response I got was a polite you didn't ask for it to be insured, tough luck. He says he shipped it Nov. 1 or 2. Daves feedback is excellent. This is the first time a card I bought on ebay has not arrived. Is that the proper answer from him? Whats the proper response from me? An item for discussion perhaps. - Doug ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Tiger Dave Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:45:04 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Doug -- Personally, I would ask him to split the difference. Either he sends $15 or gives a credit. If the card does show up, you can send the $15 back. This same thing happened to me once (different dealer) and I was nice about it so he agreed with me. If you get confrontational about it, you'll end up with nothing. That's my humble opinion... Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:08 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Tiger Dave > I bought my first card from Tiger Dave, a 49B Bob Lemon for about $30. > card never arrived. When I notified him again this week that the card > had not arrived the response I got was a polite you didn't ask for it to > insured, tough luck. He says he shipped it Nov. 1 or 2. Daves feedback > excellent. This is the first time a card I bought on ebay has not > Is that the proper answer from him? Whats the proper response from me? > item for discussion perhaps. - Doug > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Does this guy pitch right or left handed?? Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:38:18 -0500 From: "John Collins" Burdette intentionally took a southpaw stance on his 1959 card to pull a joke on the photographer. I remember that card being included in the "Bubble Gum Bozos" gallery in one of the "Baseball Hall of Shame" books by Bruce Nash and Allan Zullo. Also interesting cards from those books are the 1969 Topps Aurilo Rodriguez (photo is actually the batboy...Rodriguez taking advantage of the fact that he wasn't a household name...) and the 66 and 67cards of Astros pitcher Claude Raymond. In both photos, Claude's fly is unzipped. ----- Original Message ----- From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; octraders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:54 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Does this guy pitch right or left handed?? hi- this is Linda- while searching for cards off fellow OCT member Braves fan Dennis Medbourn's want list i noticed something unusual about pitcherLou Burdette-check out his 1959 topps card # 440 and his 1963 topps card # 429- on the 59 topps card his glove is on his right hand and pitching left handed- on the 63 topps card his glove is on his left hand and he is pitching right handed- -was this guy right or left handed or both??? Linda Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] "Cards for Kids" 2001 - REMINDER! Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:19:12 -0500 From: "Chuck Paris" Guys: I stumbled on a Cards for Kids drop off bin here in Grand Rapids. The Jaycees and Blue Cross/ Blue Shield are sponsors as well. Maybe there is a drop off in your local area that would work better for you. I was ableto contact a Jaycees member who I am going to take my donation to. Happy Holidays !!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Austin To: vct@yahoogroups.com ; octraders@yahoogroups.com ; tradingbases@yahoogroups.com ; chcaco@yahoogroups.com ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:10 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] "Cards for Kids" 2001 - REMINDER! Well, the Christmas season is fast upon coming us, so I wanted to send out one final reminder about the 2001 "Cards for Kids" Program. Cards are already rolling in to Dr. Manary. I'd like to encourage you to take this opportunity and dig out some goodies that might brighten some kid's day. A few cards or a zillion - both will be greatly appreciated. Attached is the original message, in case you missed it the first time. For the past few years, members from many of the web's top notch baseball card trading groups have gotten together and given up some of their sports cards in order to make a donation to St. Louis Children's Hospital. Our intent has been to lift the spirits of some kids who probably didn't want to be there, while at the same time providing them with some goodies in the hopes of spreading the joy of trading cards. It was all a very simple effort but one that we hoped would add a few smiles to some young faces and provide the children with a little something they may not otherwise have had. The project has been a huge success with great participation across many card groups, and we have collected 10's of thousands of cards during this time along with card supplies, various toys, ball caps, ball gloves, etc. As it so happens, the pediatrician who hands out the cards is a baseball card fan as well and has generously agreed to head up the effort again this year. (edited from last year's message) Dr. Mark Manary: "I am a pediatrician in the St. Louis Children's Hospital emergency room. Last Christmas we had something special to give our young visitors on the days around Christmas. There were some donated baseball cards from a trading card group, I was told. Neatly boxed, we offered them to boys and girls of school age. The response was magnificent. Squeals of delight as they recognized current and recent Cardinals (St. Louis is a baseball town). Whether the trip to the ER was for something simple like stitches or something serious like a systemic infection, the cards did bring joy to these young hearts. For our very young visitors another group donated stuffed animals, so it was nice to have the cards to offer the older kids. It was a great way to bring a some cheer at Christmas time, a superb service project. I would be eager to see baseball card collectors do it again. Members could send me their donatedcards and I would package them in envelopes and distribute them at Christmas at the hospital to our young collectors." This is a great opportunity to spread some good cheer and to clear out some extra cards at the same time. Got a ton of dupes you don't know what to do with? Send em! New cards? Old Cards? Football? Basketball? Baseball? Hockey? NASCAR? Send em! Whatever you have to send would be great. Since this will be targeted at kids in the St. Louis area, Cardinals/Rams cards, or cards of Cards stars from the past or present would probably be especially prized. A Mark McGwire or Albert Pujols card here and there would probably make some kid's week. But, whether you are simply clearing out some dupes or unwanted cards, or selecting a few "treasures" from your collection, please know that any effort on your part will be greatly appreciated by these children. In the past, various trading card organizations have spearheaded this effort, but I believe it has grown well beyond any single group. Its a powerful effort of good will that we all can participate in. Dr. Manary again has graciously offered to be the point of contact for the donations this year. You can send donations of all shapes and sizes to him at the following address: "Cards for Kids" c/o Dr. Mark Manary 7435 Flora Avenue St. Louis. MO 63143 e-mail: Manary@kids.wustl.edu Mark notes that "It would be great to receive tons of cards (of all kinds)", so fire away! Pass the word to your collecting buddies! Thanks for yoursupport! Thanks for reading to the end, and may God bless you and yours during this holiday season. - Dan Austin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:46:16 EST Subject: TigerDaves Response To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com I would be willing to give you a full credit towards any of my auctions on yahoo or ebay. You can use it at your convience. I love OBC . Its the best group in the world!!!! Also 50/50 split is more than fair. I loved that card and it hurts me its lost. Merry Christmas Doug. Pretty fare guy I'd say. thanks for all the advice guys. - Doug ================= To: "VCT" , Subject: Tuesday Availables Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:11:54 -0500 From: "John Collins" I have cleaned up what passes for my dupes box, and am trying to get a few hits out before Christmas. The following are available FCFS, just drop me a line. Condition is VG or better on most unless noted. Get 'em while they're hot !! 1957 Topps: 1958 Topps: 168, 170, 194, 247(2), 283, 426, 429, 447 1964 Topps: 19, 43, 63, 115, 133, 173, 185, 220, 227, 308, 327, 421, 444, 1965 Topps: 1966 Topps: 4, 12 (2), 46, 88, 151 122, 393, 399 1967 Topps: 206, 251 (Woodie Held - doesn't somebody collect him?) 431 1968 Topps: 112, 127, 139, 149, 176, 179, 181, 185, 438 1969 Topps: 18, 30 (Bob Allison - the man most like Roger Maris), 39, 63, 77, 341, 356 1971 Topps 'Black Beauties': 75, 96, 158 (2), 172, 218 1972 Topps 'Psychos': 126, 302, 318, 465 (Hodges), 469, 480 (L. May), 519 1973 Topps: 78, 88, 123 (Alomar), 143, 178, 180 (F. Jenkins) Whew, that is all for now. Have a good one ! John C. Collins ================= To: Subject: Re: Another useless quiz Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:44:19 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" This really was a useless quiz, but here are the answers... There have been 9 pitchers who amassed more than 1000 career at-bats in the majors without hitting a single home run. (This excludes two middle-infielders who happened to pitch a few games, and one 19th-century veteran who split his career between pitching and the field- they don't count.) -They were all solid-to-great pitchers (can't get 1000 at-bats otherwise), whose cumulative record was 1938-1551 (.555) -All of them won at least 150 games -Only one was under .500 for his career --8 of the 9 appeared in the World Series, winning 19 games and losing 14. -The earliest of the 9 began his ML career in 1899; the latest ended his in -3 of the 9 are HOFers [That would be DON SUTTON, WAITE HOYT, and JOE -one had a good chance for the HOF, but made a big mistake along the way {EDDIE CICOTTE} -one of them threw a pitch that fractured a HOFer's skull and ended his playing career {BUMP HADLEY] -one of them, a knuckleballer, played 21 years without ever winning a pennant [DUTCH LEONARD the second] -one started 338 regular season games only to wind up losing the exact number of games that he won; however, he did win a famous World Series game, striking out 13 even though he was anything but a strikeout pitcher [HOWARD -the single lefthander in the group, although he is not in the HOF, is one of only 20 lefties since 1900 to win 200 games {BILLY PIERCE] -one went 150-102 in the 1930s, pitched his whole 16-year career for one team, and went 4-1 in 4 World Series [TOM BRIDGES] ================= To: "VCT" , Subject: 71 OPC Ryan available Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:23:19 -0500 From: "John Collins" Also found this one in the dupes box (though obviously not a dupe). 1971 OPC #513 Nolan Ryan - Mets. Condition is borderline Tipton, F/P range, though appears at least Ex when looking at the front of the card. It is extremely well centered. When you flip to the back however, there is a large patch of paper loss where somebody pasted "Lanceur" Nolan Ryan into a scrapbook. The paper loss is accompanied by a thin and hard to see tear that extends across the back of the card. When held out of a card saver, it becomes apparent that the card is nearly ripped in half (the bottom half will hang down), but oddly enough, this is not visible at all from the front of the card. I belive this card originated from the Dan Austin collection some time ago. Would prefer to trade for a star of the same value and low condition from one of the sets I am working on (1959 would be particularly nice since I just started that one) but will consider all offers. Let me know if you are interested and would like to propose a trade !! John C. Collins ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: cards for kids Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:32:45 -0500 From: "John Collins" Could somebody forward me Dan's email about the cards for kids program again? I deleted mine by mistake. John C. Collins ================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:36:11 EST Subject: Bob Gibson, closer To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com We all (or most of us) remember Bob Gibson as one of the best starting pitchers ever to play the game. Today he became a closer.... his card became the last one in my 65 collection, closing it out after a mere 36 years! Rest well, ================= To: "Thanks" , Subject: Thanks guys (and a ramble) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:21:54 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Two days of thanks plus this weeks edition of "your tax dollars at work" -- Yesterday I received my first '50s Callahan card. A beautiful Jimmie Foxx (in a Red Sox uniform) courtesy of Gary Mandell. Maybe I will have toget another one of these for my Red Sox binder. :-) Thanks Gary! -- Today I received a massive shipment of unmentionables from Neal Thomas, including a Cal Ripken and Neal's cousin, Frank Thomas! Thanks Neal. -- I saved the description of the best package for last. Bob Reed promised me HOFers from all four sports. He sends a 1975-76 Topps Bobby Orr card-- the last for this set and for the 70s! From the world of baseball, I get a 70 Kelloggs Willie Mays and 71 Kelloggs Billy Williams plus some hitsto my '59/60 variations. For basketball, Bob found a Dr. J in mid-air, Big E and the Iceman from the 80-81 set. And the biggest pile are hits tomy 81 FB set, including Bradshaw, Harvey Martin and Fouts In Action. Thanks In this weeks segment of "your tax dollars at work", we bring you Rick Ellison who met this reporter yesterday for lunch at the Brickskeller, a DC watering hole known for having the largest selection of beer in the world (approx 500 different). Rick says he changed hotels because there was nothing to do at night at the previous hotel. Know we know where Rick has been spending his off hours. Rick treated me to a wonderful lunch of pierogieswith sour cream, a juicy bacon cheeseburger with fries, topped off with a nice Czech Pilsner. Rick graciously covered the tab with his lunch per diem. We had a nice talk where I learned that Rick's golf game, though ridiculed by others, is better than mine will ever be and that Rick has plans to buy an RV and drive around the country watching baseball after retirement. This is being kept secret from his wife for now. :-) I'm glad we could get together even while Rick has been working 6 or 7 day weeks since he came to Washington this month. Andy Cook and I will make plans to see him again in January. Thanks for listening. This is Steve Rittenberg, reporting live from Washington, ps I like that last line. Maybe I will add saying that on tv as one of mylifetime ================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:55:38 EST Subject: Re: TriStar show in Marlborough, Mass. To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Seasons Greetings all! Here's an update from the folks I've heard from: Bob Donaldson: trying for Friday Spike Glidden: Saturday, possibly Friday Jim Hatch: Friday and Saturday AM Robert Pigeon: possibly Saturday (if you plan on coming, please drop me a note with your ETA and I'll meet you at the entrance) Steve Rittenberg: maybe making the trip?? If I see anyone else, I'll be sure to say Hi! Don't know how the show will be as it's a new offering here. But what the heck...anything beyond Wilmington up here is a bonus! Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:50:41 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: OBC Santa From: "larryobc" After arriving home from work today, I parked the VW and walked back to the road to retrieve the trash can and pick up the mail. Inside was a "puffy" with a return address OBC Santa 1 Cardboard Lane North Pole The back clearly marked do not open until 00:01 AM December 25th So we have the first gift under our tree, and I've got a two week Thanks Santa whoever you are. ================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:28:43 EST Subject: Robin Roberts and the Scoreless Angels To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- me and my husband went to the local hotel card show this weekend and i got a card i had been searching around for some time for- 66 topps hi # 530-Robin Roberts -1st time i had seen the card at a dealers table-- i picked up the card because i knew it would be good trading material because i have seen it on quite a few 66 want lists- the card brought back memories for my husband- he remembers going to a Los Angeles Angels game in the early 60's when they were playing the Orioles and Roberts was pitching- the Angels couldn't hit him- he was getting one batter out after another- by the 5th or 6th inning the Orioles were ahead by something like 7-0. My husband remembers an Oriole player charging around 3rd base and sliding hard into home- as the player walked to the dugout my husband who was sitting in back of their dugout yelled-" Why you trying so hard?-You're 7 runs ahead and the Angels ain't getting any runs off your pitcher today anyway"- The player looked up and smiled at my husband- a year passed and again my husband was at an Angels game aginst the Orioles and Roberts was pitching again- and again it was a shutout- when my husband saw the Angels manager out on the field after the game he yelled at Bill Rigney ," hey skipper , when is your team going to score a run off Robin Roberts?? i have seen him pitch 2 games against you guys and you haven't scored a run yet-Why don't you save yourself the trouble when Roberts is pitching against your team and just stay home? "----The usual talkative Rigney offered no reply. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Re: TriStar show in Marlborough, Mass. Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:24:00 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" I am driving up today (Thursday) so I will be at the show at least tomorrowand Saturday. I'd love to participate in an OBC swap if anyone would like to host. Ken, Sean & Rick: any chance of you guys showing up? I'llbring my dupes boxes just in case. :) Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:55:38 EST From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Subject: Re: TriStar show in Marlborough, Mass. Seasons Greetings all! Here's an update from the folks I've heard from: Bob Donaldson: trying for Friday Spike Glidden: Saturday, possibly Friday Jim Hatch: Friday and Saturday AM Robert Pigeon: possibly Saturday (if you plan on coming, please drop me a note with your ETA and I'll meet you at the entrance) Steve Rittenberg: maybe making the trip?? If I see anyone else, I'll be sure to say Hi! Don't know how the show will be as it's a new offering here. But what the heck...anything beyond Wilmington up here is a bonus! Happy Collecting! ================= To: Subject: obc changing card logo Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:32:54 -0500 From: "Robert Fitts" I love the changing card logo on the OBC web site. I'd like to add one with different images to my Japanese card page. Does anybody know how to do this? Please respond directly to me and not to the group. rob fitts http://www.robsjapanesecards.com http://www.robsjapanesecards.com ================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:39:30 EST Subject: 6's for 5's? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, jgreco@us.imshealth.com From: cardclctor@aol.com Hi gang, I recently went to the Ft. Washington show and bought a few cheapo tobacco cards to use as trade bait. There's plenty of commons (almost 100) left on my T205 list (below), plus I have a couple bigger post-war cards to trade if anyone has one of the (about 50) bigger names I need. Here's what I have to trade. Condition varies from very bad to "Wow, what's holding that together?" Thanks for looking! T205 (gold borders): Richie, Delahanty*(this is the only decent one - but I still overpaid for it) T206 (white borders): Birmingham, Frill, Ganzel, Geyer, Lindaman, Oldring(bat), Ritchey, Street(Catching), Sullivan (Br Hindu back*), T210 (red borders): Unknown?? (Galveston - Series 3), Wysong (Greenville - Series 5) T205 wantlist: A: Adkins*, Ames, Archer B: Bailey, Baker*, Ball, Barger(partial B)*, Barry, Batch*, Beck, Bescher, Bransfield, Bresnahan(mouth open)*, Bridwell, Byrne C: Cady*, Camnitz, Chase(gold frame ends at shoulders), Cicotte, E. Collins(mouth open)*, E. Collins(mouth closed)*, J. Collins, Crandall(crossed "t"), Crandall(uncrossed "t"), Criger D: Dahlen*, Daubert, Devlin, Devore, Dickson, Donohue*, Dooin, Doolan, Downey, Doyle, Duffy*, Dunn* E: Egan, Elberfield, Engle, Evers*, Ewing F: Ferguson, Fisher*, Ford(red cap), Ford(white cap)*, Frick*, Fromme G: Gaspar, Gibson, Graham(Cubs)*, Grant*, Gray(no stats), Gray(stats)*, Griffith*, Groom H: Hanford*, Harmon(both ears), Harmon(one ear)*, Hoblitzell(Cin 1908)*, Hoblitzell(2 L's, no Cin)*, Hoblitzel(1 L, no Cin), Hoffman, Hummel J: Jacklitsch, Jennings*, Johnson*, D. Jones, T. Jones, Joss* K: Karger*, Killian, Kleinow*, Kling, Knight, Konetchy, Krause, Kroh L: LaPorte, Lang, Latham(W. A. Latham), Latham(A. Latham), Leach, Lee*, A. Leifield, A. P. Leifield, Lennox, Livingston, B. Lord, H. Lord, Lush M: Maddox, Marquard*, McAllister*, McBride, McConnell, McElveen, McClean, Merritt*, Milan, Mitchell, Moran(stray line), Moran(no stray line), Moriarity, Mullin, Murphy, Murray N: Nee* O: Oldring, O'Leary, Olmstead, Overall P: Parent, Paskert, Payne, Phelan* Q: Quinn R: Raymond*, Reulbach, Rowan*, Rucker S: Scanlan*, Scott, Sharpe, Sheckard, Simmons, Snodgrass, Speaker*, Stahl, Stanage, Stovall, Street, Suggs*, Sweeney* T: Thomas, Tinker*, Turner* V: Vaughn W: Wagner*, Walsh*, Wheat*, D. White, K. White*, Wilhelm*, Wiltse(one ear)*, Y: Young* ================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:01:38 EST Subject: some holiday cheer? To: TopCat657@aol.com From: smartalecx@aol.com howdy folks. i hope you are all enjoying this holiday season. december 13 in chicago and we haven't seen a bit of snow -- yet! one of my "missions" when i first hooked up with the group was to finish off my 70s and 80s so i could concentrate on the fun stuff. i am under 30 cards (less than 10 in several) to go in each of topps sets 73 regular, 78-85 regulars and 86 Traded. any help to get these out of the way will be handsomely rewarded. you can check out my want list at: http://gmcards.homestead.com/html thanks for reading, and happy holidays to all. gary mandell ================= To: Subject: Tiger Dave Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:02:43 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Thought I would stay out of the Tiger Dave "controversy" from a couple of days ago, for obvious reasons. Thought I would forward this from the OBC Message Board for those that may not have seen it: Hi gang. Tigerdave from Canada. I am currently collecting 1957-67 Kubek,Pepitone,Ford, E.Howard, C.Boyer, Bouton, Stottlemyre, Richardson, Tresh cards. Also Berra. I am looking to pay $2.99 for VG or better, prefer no or limited (Kubek,Boyer,Richardson,E.Howard,Pepitone),$1.99 for Bouton,Stottleymre's. $3.99 to $4.99 for Ford or Berra's. If you have a big lot email me at tigerdave@shaw.ca. And I will see what I can offer. Kubek,Richardson,Bouton,Pepitone,Tresh,Stottlemyre rookies will offer more. I also have cards to trade as well. Let me know what you can use. No quantity too big or small. Thanks for your help. This is purely a labour of love. Just ask Grant from Vancouver and Big Al from Seattle! Hope you get over the operation Big Al we are all pulling for you! ================= To: Subject: Tiger Dave Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:57:35 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Just to clarify, I wasn't drawing attention to the fact that Dave wants to buy Yankees...heck, as far as I am concerned he can have them...well...most of them...it was his last line I was referring to, wishing Big Al well...thought that was nice. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1045232430: 1934 GOUDEY WRAPPER Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:57:28 PST From: srittenberg66@earthlink.net Wow! A 34 Goudey wrapper. I've never seen one as old as this. I hope someone I know bids on it so that I can see it in person. :) Title of item: 1934 GOUDEY WRAPPER Starts: Dec-07-01 12:35:12 PST Ends: Dec-14-01 12:35:12 PST Price: Currently $21.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1045232430 Item Description: 1934 GOUDEY WRAPPER This is a real nice wrapper from 1934 Goudey. Has some soiling but no tears NO RESERVE Shipping for this item is $1.50Multiple lot winners - add $.50 for each additional item.Insurance is $2.00 and is optional on orders under $50Please check out the other auctions we currently have running on eBay. PA RESIDENTS MUST ADD 6% SALES TAX TO TOTAL Free counters provided by Honesty.com This listing created by eBay Seller's Assistant Basic. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: 1962 Willie Mays on Ebay Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:32:31 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" There is a '62 Mays on ebay right now (13:20 eastern), which is described as a 1963 Mays. No bids so far. Starts at $9.99. Looks like it could be a steal for someone. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1047316266 The guy doesn't take PayPal, so I'm out of the running. Go to it, my Glasgow, Scotland ================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:08:07 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1959 Topps Set Completed From: "larryobc" After months of ebay bidding on overpriced 1959 Topps Clemente cards, I finally won an auction for $5.59 plus $1.50 shipping. The Clemente card arrived today and I crossed off the last card for my set. Thanks for all the help in completing my set over the past few ================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:09:37 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: OK, what did I buy? From: Neal Thomas Imagine if you will, the scene in a small town in central PA. The kids skipped their naps, and were in bed by 7:30. Terri was tired and in bed soon after. So I am left alone for the night. Being the party animal that I am, I decide to make good on a promise-- I told me 12 year old nephew I would take him to see "The Lord of The Rings" and so I sat down to read the first book (which I haven't read since high school) so I could appear knowledgeable on a story I knew very well long ago. A few (ok, maybe a bit more than a few) Rolling Rocks later, I sit down to play on eBay a bit. I stumble across a lot called "60+ tobacco cards" and check it out. No baseball cards like I hoped, but I bid anyway. SO now I need some of you non-sports guys to tell me what sets I have just added to my wantlists: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1047506896 The moral of the story: Free time and good beer are a bad combination for the wallet and wantlists! Any help on IDing these cards (and letting me know if I got a good deal or wasted 30 bucks) would be appreciated. ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:37:47 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lost my OBC Santa Partner From: "coop951" Can anyone help me. I lost my Santa partner.Dont know who to send to or my number. Lost that e mail Appreciate anyones help Jim Cooper ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:43:12 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Lost my OBC Santa Partner To: coop951@optonline.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com LOL...any oldtimers remember Robbie Moore? (not picking on you Coop, just a classic OBC memory!) Original Message Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] Lost my OBC Santa Partner Date: 12/14/01 11:39:10 PM Eastern Standard Time From: coop951@optonline.net (coop951) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Can anyone help me. I lost my Santa partner.Dont know who to send to or my number. Lost that e mail Appreciate anyones help Jim Cooper To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: < Received: from rly-xa02.mx.aol.com (rly-xa02.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.71]) by air-xa05.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINXA52-1214233909; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:39:09 -0500 Received: from n26.groups.yahoo.com (n26.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.76]) by rly-xa02.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXA28-1214233903; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:39:03 -0500 Received: from [216.115.97.187] by n26.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2001 04:31:50 -0000 X-Sender: coop951@optonline.net X-Apparently-To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 15 Dec 2001 04:37:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 67440 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2001 04:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m6.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Dec 2001 04:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.56) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2001 04:37:49 -0000 Received: from [216.115.96.116] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2001 04:37:49 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <9vek2r+fsfl@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "coop951" X-Originating-IP: 67.81.22.22 X-Yahoo-Profile: coop951 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com; contact Delivered-To: mailing list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:37:47 -0000 Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lost my OBC Santa Partner ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:15:28 EST Subject: re: lost my OBC Santa Partner To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com Robby Moore is one of four current members who's email address no longer works, at least for me, The others are Bob Farrell, Iggy Gonzalez, and Bob Wells. In addition I have not gotten any response to dues payment requests from Carlos Alcazar, Terry Dietrick, John Hathcock, Doug Julien, Dennis Linden, Jeff Sackman, and Kevin Wolf. I know some of these folks are at least semi-active. Any help any of you can give me in finding accurate addresses for these guys or getting an answer on whether they want to continue or not would be appreciated. - Doug ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:15:56 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Lost my OBC Santa Partner To: ChicoD1@aol.com, coop951@optonline.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com I think that would have to be Robbie Moore and Terry Woods, especially Terry Woods! I remember it well and had to laugh when I read your email and coop's! ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:49:05 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1959 Topps Set Completed To: larry.tipton@netzero.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: GHAY1@aol.com In an amazing coincidence, I too, just got word that I had won two high number '59's, Jim Perry & Casey Stengel A.S. ($2.00 + shipping) to complete the reconstruction of my childhood set. Like Larry, I would like to thank OBC for helping me over the past number of years to finish the 1959 set. George Hay ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Cards-I-would-buy-in-a-minute(if they weren't too overpriced)-Wantlist Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:55:04 -0600 From: "George Vrechek" 1965 O PeeChee 208 Tommy John 1958 yellow team letters 76 Farrell and 79 Williams 1974 Baseball Firsts 6 7 13 1980 Topps 387 Stanley and 547 Wathan - names in yellow Marshall Merrell prints While all of us have collections, we focus on what we don't have - the wantlists. Most of us (theoretically) have the 1952 Topps Mantle on our want list but we aren't out there looking for it. You can actually find the 52 Mantle rather easily in all types of grades if you wander over to Levi Bleam's 707 Sportscards table at a big show. But since many of us throw around $1,000's of dollars like locomotives, we aren't likely to scratch Mantle off our However each of us have cards on our list that have eluded us for some timeand aren't terribly expensive. These cards are actually fun to look for. If you find them, you hope they aren't too overpriced so that you can just buy them and make some progress on your list. So why are the above cards on my list? (and who cares?) 1965 OPC Tommy John I don't collect OPC sets but I do collect "type" cards and all cards of Tommy John. While I have a "type" of the 1965 OPC I havenever been able to find Tommy in 1965 OPC. John is about my age, I met himat card show and affordably started collecting all his cards. The only oneI don't have is the 65 OPC and I have a lot of stuff: stickers, photos, stamps etc. You see him age and change uniforms if you put his cards in a binder. His first card is in 1964 and his last regular card was 1989. Fortunately he finally retired before the explosion in the number of player cards in one year. 1958 yellow team Many ebay advertisers (and some dealers) have no idea what a yellow letter variation is. Consequently you can find some of the yellow team variations in with the commons. These two (Farrell and Williams) I haven't found anyplace - yet. Fleer Baseball Firsts I see that a few of my fellow OBCers also collect these early Fleer cards. They aren't of much sentimental value, but they are cheap and hard to find. I have all of the pre 1980 Fleer cards (I think) except these 3 and the 1963 checklist. 1980 Topps Stanley and Wathan The Stanley yellow name variation is listed at something like $3. I have never seen one and I am a variation collector and self-proclaimed unofficial expert. (I also haven't found any dealers who gave a hoot about the card either.) The Wathan is even tougher in that I'm not sure it exists. It is not a listed variation. If it exists, it shouldbe properly priced at 3 cents market value. Marshall Merrell prints These 8 and 1/2 by 11 inch black and white glossy drawn portraits were sold at Milwaukee Braves games for 25 cents. As a kid I visited my aunt and uncle in Milwaukee and went to many games. I splurgedon buying the stars - Aaron, Mathews etc but never bought the regular guys. I've been looking for them for about 10 years. A few were on ebay about ayear ago and I didn't win them. A fellow in Wisconsin sent me his do-it-yourself reprints of all the "cards." They look identical to the real thing -but they aren't. So I keep looking. If you've read this far, I would be interested in what cards other collectors are looking for that would fit the same category of "not-too-expensive-but-darned-if-I-can-find-them." Send a note in reply to Ramblings. George Vrechek ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:15:00 EST Subject: legit or not ? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ehpiii@aol.com I have a question about an item offered from someone w/out an established track record. If you pay w/ Paypal, can you reverse payment if the item turns out to not be legit ? I can't tell from the scan on this card if it is, or not. Thanks ! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1048761199 ================= To: "Ramblings" , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Cards-I-would-buy-in-a-minute(if they weren't too overpriced)-Wantlist Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:47:33 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" George -- My favorite example of a tough card that I could afford and not find was the T205 Wagner card to complete my set. It is not Honus Wagner and it is not a T206. It is listed as a little tougher than a common gold-border, but in the year I was really willing to pay anything for it, I never saw it on Ebay. I finally ended up winning it in a lot and passing the rest of the cards on to OBCers, but man was that quite a search! If only I would have had another lawnmower to trade for it... Thanks for the great ramble! Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: George Vrechek To: Ramblings Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 7:55 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Cards-I-would-buy-in-a-minute(if they weren't too 1965 O PeeChee 208 Tommy John 1958 yellow team letters 76 Farrell and 79 Williams 1974 Baseball Firsts 6 7 13 1980 Topps 387 Stanley and 547 Wathan - names in yellow Marshall Merrell prints While all of us have collections, we focus on what we don't have - the want lists. Most of us (theoretically) have the 1952 Topps Mantle on our wantlist but we aren't out there looking for it. You can actually find the 52 Mantle rather easily in all types of grades if you wander over to Levi Bleam's 707 Sportscards table at a big show. But since many of us throw around $1,000's of dollars like locomotives, we aren't likely to scratch Mantle off our lists. However each of us have cards on our list that have eluded us for some time and aren't terribly expensive. These cards are actually fun to look for.If you find them, you hope they aren't too overpriced so that you can justbuy them and make some progress on your list. So why are the above cards on my list? (and who cares?) 1965 OPC Tommy John I don't collect OPC sets but I do collect "type" cards and all cards of Tommy John. While I have a "type" of the 1965 OPC I have never been able to find Tommy in 1965 OPC. John is about my age, I met him at card show and affordably started collecting all his cards. The only one I don't have is the 65 OPC and I have a lot of stuff: stickers, photos, stamps etc. You see him age and change uniforms if you put his cards in a binder. His first card is in 1964 and his last regular card was 1989. Fortunately he finally retired before the explosion in the number of player cardsin one year. 1958 yellow team Many ebay advertisers (and some dealers) have no idea what a yellow letter variation is. Consequently you can find some of the yellow team variations in with the commons. These two (Farrell and Williams) Ihaven't found anyplace - yet. Fleer Baseball Firsts I see that a few of my fellow OBCers also collect these early Fleer cards. They aren't of much sentimental value, but they are cheap and hard to find. I have all of the pre 1980 Fleer cards (I think) except these 3 and the 1963 checklist. 1980 Topps Stanley and Wathan The Stanley yellow name variation is listed at something like $3. I have never seen one and I am a variation collector and self-proclaimed unofficial expert. (I also haven't found any dealers who gave a hoot about the card either.) The Wathan is even tougher in that I'm not sure it exists. It is not a listed variation. If it exists, it should be properly priced at 3 cents market value. Marshall Merrell prints These 8 and 1/2 by 11 inch black and white glossy drawn portraits were sold at Milwaukee Braves games for 25 cents. As a kid I visited my aunt and uncle in Milwaukee and went to many games. I splurged on buying the stars - Aaron, Mathews etc but never bought the regular guys. I've been looking for them for about 10 years. A few were on ebay abouta year ago and I didn't win them. A fellow in Wisconsin sent me his do-it-yourself reprints of all the "cards." They look identical to the real thing- but they aren't. So I keep looking. If you've read this far, I would be interested in what cards other collectors are looking for that would fit the same category of "not-too-expensive-but-darned-if-I-can-find-them." Send a note in reply to Ramblings. George Vrechek Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:24:53 EST Subject: local card shop bid board helps me beat high card prices! To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- my local card shop bid board on saturdays continues to be a source for card bargains and this saturday was no exception- Occasionally most of the bidders are kids into new cards leaving the older cards for me- i wish i could have attended that tri state show in MA. today that member Jim Hatch and some of the other obcer's are attending with some of these cards i won.It would have been fun to use these cards i won to trade with OBC members attending the show- i got each of these cards for the minimum bid board amount of 25 cents except the 33 goudey of Waite Hoyt i paid $1 for- today's haul-- 1960 topps hi # Sport Magazine All-Star Selection card #'s--557,562,569,572---59 topps #'s--79,154,323---more 1960 topps - # 247 Gil McDougald---# 400- Colavito---# 258- Groat---# 408-Furillo---# 83--Kubek---# 450 Cepeda---# 240 Apparicio--and # 50- Al Kaline----1953 bowman B&W # 1- Gus Bell-- and nice to get a 33 goudey # 60 Waite Hoyt for $1-i also picked up a red heart of Frank Bumholtz at the card show last weekend for $1/ -i would really liked to have been at that big show this weekend in MA and met Jim Hatch and other obc'ers attending- i hope all you guys find a lot of good cards at that show- let me know how you did-- Linda ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 03:33:38 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: What OBC has meant to me From: "rayluurs" I hope I dont get booted out of OBC for putting in a sappy rambling about what OBC has meant to me :-). You see Christmas and for that matter the last four years hasnt really meant a heck of alot. Been searching for answer that no one seems to have the answers to. Since Dick Cumming and Brett Domue(OBCers) and Steve Simms(former OBCer) are probably the only people who knowwhat going on. I will give a little back ground of the story. Four years ago Monday (december 17th) I lost my daughter, Jamie to a car/pedestrian accident she was 12, and while she was a royal pain in the rear as all teenager are:-) she was my pain i would give anything for an arguement right now. I dont want to tell you the pain or you to feel sorry for me, because to be truthful because i have been blessed with two other children Courtney(18) and Geoff(14). But the lost lingered and i really fought depression by feeling sorry for myself for what i was missing out on. She was 5'7 125 lb offensive lineman for the youth football team and backup center on my 9th grade bb team as a seventh grader. she was a coaches dream or nightmare depending on moods:-) Dick Brett and Steve got me involved in OBC last year and I kind of went through the motion sending a few cards out and never (i know Steve) getting around to to putting up a wantlist. That is until this year Dick got me on the bug to start back with my birthyear, now i dont need to tell you I am old but i thought that would be neat start collecting a few here and there an by the time i am ready to retire i will be ready to have a collction complete. Needless to say the bug hit hard, starting with John Harrel and going through about every OBCer of stature I not only collected all the 1953 Topps, but both Bowman sets and am 10 card short of having the football set done also. You made the year go so fast that it is ironic that next Saturday at 3:00 it will be as Dickens said the best of times and the worse of times. You see 4 years ago at the time and date I was buring my daugher this saturday at the same exact time date and church I will be walking my daughter down the isle so she can start a new life with the the dad of my granddaughter. It took 4 years and while I still want answer, what has happened to me and you people have put happiness back into my life. when i sit and look at those old cards something i havent done in 25 years I remember so events and i am a kid again and for breif moment the hurt goes away and when i tcomes back it doesnt hurt as much. thanks for listening to me ramble, therapy like this is really good during this time. ================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:54:26 EST Subject: Ebay private auctions To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ehpiii@aol.com Thanks to all OBC Ebay'ers who responded to my auction question and reinforced my initial scepticism. One new tip I learned is that "private auctions" are a potential tip-off for bogus stuff, because then potential buyers can't be warned off. ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:41:22 EST Subject: Vintage track cards/ Starting Lineup stocking stuffers ? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ehpiii@aol.com I've put together a list of vintage to more recent track & field - Odgen's, Mecca, Pan Handle Scrap, etc that I have available if you are interested. I also have the following Legends Track Stars Set Starting Line up figures + cards: Jesse Owens, Michael Johnson, Jackie Joyner Kersee, Olga Korbet, Nadia Comaneci from a lot I just won. If you are interested in any of these as stocking stuffers, please LMK and I'll see if the seller can send them to you directly to arrive for X-mas. (http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1044349640) Don't be shy about asking !!! ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:34:04 EST Subject: Show report and Thanks To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Dateline: this Friday and Saturday just passed. Place: Marlborough, Massachusetts After an uneventful day at work on Friday evening, I made my way to Marlborough for a new show offering in New England: a three day show put on by TriStar Promotions. I set my expectations low, as it was a new venture and I'm a bit afraid of the unknown. Upon arrival, I started to wander aimlessly which worked out to my benefit as I ran into Spike Glidden, Steve Rittenberg and Bob Reed! Cool...now I feel a lot more comfortable :-) Spike handed me a puffy from he and Steve, which was found to contain 9 1970 hi numbers (including a Frank Robinson!), a 1967 Yaz, a 1969 hit and a 1975 Hostess Steve Carlton! Double teamed! Help!! Thanks guys! A bit later, Ken Morganti made his appearance, too. Nice to see everyone there. My finds? An E254 Colgan's chip card for cheap and a 1962 hi number for .08! Hit the road early Saturday and was at the show for the opening bell. Wandering around aimlessly really pays off, folks as I found Bob Donaldson going through some stacks of cardboard. After a while I started to wonder about Robert Pigeon, who was going to make the trip up. We had pre-arranged a scheme where he would call my wife's cell phone (on my person) when he arrived. Now, I do not own a cell phone so I have a litle bit of anxiety when I use my wife. I checked it every 15 minutes or so to see if I missed Robert's call. Well, sure enough I did! I figured out how to make a call back and called him. I met Robert for the first time at the front entrance and started to walk the floor in search of other OBC'ers. By this time, Steve and Spike made the show (who handed me a pair of football hits). I started to scope out an open area for a little swap session, but the best I could find was a corner on the floor next to a radio broadcast. Ken joined us soon thereafter. The show itself was so-so. Affordable pre-war was non-existant and bargain bins didn't offer too many bargains. This show would probably do better in the spring when its not so close to the holidays and the Wilminton Shriner's show. The weekend was highlighted by meeting up with six other OBC'ers, which is always a thumbs-up in my book! Thanks for the crdboard and great company guys!! Happy holidays (and of course, Happy Collecting) ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:48:34 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fwd: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] What OBC has meant to me From: Originaleek@webtv.net From: OriginalEEK@webtv.net (Earl Kilbourn) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:16:38 -0500 (EST) To: LUURSCJG@aol.com (rayluurs) Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] What OBC has meant to me ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Show report from Bob R. Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:32:03 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" I did manage to sneak on over to the Tri-Star show in Marlborogh Mass on Friday night. I walked in the door and noticed a sign that said “Bargain Box”. I looked at the person sorting through the box and recognized Matt “Spike” Glidden. Later met up with Steve Rittenberg, Jim Hatch, and Ken Morganti. I was hoping to find the last 5 1963’s I needed but didn’t have any luck. The best deal I could find was $7.00 for the Jay Hook card. Offered the dealer $5.00 but he wouldn’t take it. I agree with Jim that there wasn't a lot of baseball bargains but I did pick up a few hits for the 3D sets. Also found some football cards in a 50 cent box to help some of those sets and picked up a box of 2002 cards. I also met a dealer from New York (Greg Fisher) who liked the idea of OBC and agree to a trade through the mail where I'd send him 3 cards for 2. This should help me with some of my UV sets I'm working on. After the show Jim headed home and the rest off us went to Papa Gino’s for pizza. After Pizza Ken took off but Steve, Spike and I got together for some swapping. Steve, in addition to the 4 puffies that arrived in Thursday’s mail, wasn’t done attacking my want list. He handed me a 1956 Aparicio rookie at the show and after dinner passed over a couple of tough SP’s from the 64 Giant set, Staurt and Cisco. We also worked out a deal, I gave him a 57 Ted Williams for the entire 1956 Dodger Team and a 52 high number to be named later. He then passed the Williams to Spike for future considerations. Steve also convinced me to add more football sets to my list so the Phily 66, and Topps 68, 70, and 71 sets have been added. The dealer scum Steve even helped me out by letting me reimburse him for a couple of 51 Red Backs that he picked up, including the Berra. Spike let me take some cards he bought at the show. I ended up with both 1956 Hal Smiths, a 56 A’s team and a hit for the 54 set. He also got a 1965 embossed Banks and a Seaver scratch off for me at the show. It’s also enjoyable to meet up with other OBC’ers and even though I could only make it on Friday I wasn’t disappointed. Thanks guys for the great Company and great Cardboard. -Bob R MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ================= To: Subject: Big St. AL Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:41:31 -0800 From: "Diamanti" Well Guys: Finally got through to the BIG GUY - St. Al. It was like talkin' to Marlon Brando in the Godfather, but no Italian accent. St. Al says the worst part of his recovery is not the surgery, but the factthat they had the breathing tube in and out of his throat twice. Says his voice box is wanged up a bit, but he'll get better. He's been dozing and sleeping a lot. He tells me that the main focus of his recovery is not the post-surgery, but the medics' ability to keep all his body systems in sync - - blood sugar, amount of water in his system, blood pressure, heart rate, etc. He says that once they feel all these factors are in sync and under control, he can go home. He believes that his steady progress will get him home by Christmas. I've now got his daughter's cell phone number so I can get updates from the family as well as call Al direct at the hospital. Everything I know is in this e-mail. The CARE package is coming along nicely - - I have 3 donations so far and Itold Al that I would pay him personal homage, I mean a visit, once he is comfortable at home. So sometime after the first of the year I should be ready to go see him. I will keep all of you posted on that process, and of course, I will be accepting donations to the St. Al Return Home Basket up to the last minute. My mailing is 864 Prairie View Ave., Coupeville, WA 98239. Just mark his pkgs. 'St. AL' or 'BIG AL'. That's it for now! Mike Diamanti PS Al was touched at the OBC concern for his health andwelfare.......... ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: question Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:26:03 -0500 From: "John Collins" At the risk of sounding ignorant, what is all of this Modular-9 stuff? Could somebody explain it to me? I either misunderstood a whole series of e-mails, or I truly am ignorant. John C. Collins ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:55:17 EST Subject: Lynn Miller To: , , From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi gang, Hopefully many of you read Rick Redpath's note from Lynn Miller. Since I am in charge of the reinstatment process with the OBCAC, I now formally put his name back out there to the group for comments, and we will get it back to the OBCAC (is there such a thing as reinstatement by acclamation?). We also have Mike Kinney to reconsider, we have gotten some feedback already and I think we can wrap both of these guys up by Monday at the latest. Let's hear from you. ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:45:47 EST Subject: Marlborough Show To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM It took some of the latest technology available but I finally have met some of the New England OBC army plus one. Jim and I both borrowed our wives cell phones so we wouldn't miss each other again. I called him when we arrived and got no answer. I thought I was going to be in trouble. I took my wife and junior over to get them a ticket for a Trot Nixon autograph. I was going to look around and my pocket started ringing. Not being a techie took me a minute to answer. It was Jim:) We met and then he acted as the tour guide and brought me around to meet the guys. It was great to meet everybody who up until now has been just numbers on a web page. We found a corner and the guys brought out their dupes boxes. Me, I remembered to bring it to Ft. Washington but it was at home this time:( The guys grabbed my wantlist and started to attack it while I went and took a photo of my women hugging Trot Nixon. I returned to a pile of hits to my list which I'll get to on the Thanks server. It was fun watching the cardboard being passed around. Next time I will definitely remember the dupes box. I really enjoyed meeting the guys it was like when we were kids passing around the cards. I look forward to the next big show. Thanks guys. ================= To: Subject: Lynn Miller et al Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:08:58 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" First, re Lynn Miller...I don't get it. Why all the fuss, he never left. John Collins hasn't gotten an answer yet about Modular whatever....John, this was a semi-contest that Iggy G. ran a while back. You applied to be entered in the contest, and higher math took over. It had something to do with combinations of runs, hits and errors from various boxscores, and it somehow ended up in a number between 0 and 9 or something. This of course after the number of players on the DL was factored in, minus the number holding out for more money, divided by the number of stadiums being rebuilt, then working out the square root of the number of players who aren't in the Hall but maybe should be, and multiplying that figure times the number of baseballs used in an average season. Then Iggy sends you cards. Hope this ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:54:53 EST Subject: seeking strip card research help To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com I'm trying to put together a more complete checklist of all the strip card sets than exists in the big SCD. I want to put teams on the list for every card and then crossreference the whole thing to a team by team checklist. I need help particularly with W513, W514, W519, W521, W572 and W575-1, but seek help for ALL strip cards (because there are still new uncatalogued variations out there - I've found about 10 in the last year). Scans are appreciated, and are most desired for the W519s and W521s. If you could send scans of any uncut strips such that the captions are readable. If you have any strip cards, if you could send me this information for each one (in this format): card number (if any) / first line of caption exactly as it appears / second line of caption exact / third line of caption exact Thanks in advance! It's going to take me a while, but when this is all done I'll share copies out with OBC. If you have strip cards you'd like to swap for other prewar stuff, just let me know. ================= Subject: Cuban card lot on ebay Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:00:41 -0500 To: "OBC Ramblings" From: Matthew Glidden An interesting lot of Cuban cards is on ebay for the international http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1046473487 OBC: Because every card is "one of one" ================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:18:58 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Wantlist] Lynn Miller To: BDAngelo@aol.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com, From: ChicoD1@aol.com Hi Bob, I guess this goes under the catagory of "no brainers"... Kind of like the Mets being offered Roberto Alomar :)... Some things are just meant to be! Original Message Subj: [OBC-Wantlist] Lynn Miller Date: 12/16/01 4:56:32 PM Eastern Standard Time From: bdangelo@aol.com To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Announcements@yahoogroups.com Hi gang, Hopefully many of you read Rick Redpath's note from Lynn Miller. Since I in charge of the reinstatment process with the OBCAC, I now formally put his name back out there to the group for comments, and we will get it back to the OBCAC (is there such a thing as reinstatement by acclamation?). We also have Mike Kinney to reconsider, we have gotten some feedback already and I think we can wrap both of these guys up by Monday at the latest. Let's hear from you. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: < Received: from rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (rly-xb01.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.102]) by air-xb03.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINXB32-1216165632; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:56:32 -0500 Received: from n32.groups.yahoo.com (n32.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.82]) by rly-xb01.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXB17-1216165602; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:56:02 -0500 Received: from [216.115.97.190] by n32.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2001 21:55:23 -0000 X-Sender: BDAngelo@aol.com X-Apparently-To: obc-wantlist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 16 Dec 2001 21:55:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 93530 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2001 21:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2001 21:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d01.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.33) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2001 21:55:22 -0000 Received: from BDAngelo@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id r.fe.10c81e2e (5711); Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:55:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from web30.aolmail.aol.com (web30.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.6]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID44-1216165518; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:55:18 -0500 To: , , , X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: From: bdangelo@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com; contact Delivered-To: mailing list OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:55:17 EST Subject: [OBC-Wantlist] Lynn Miller ================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:44:25 -0500 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: OBC-style '53 Bowman Color Mantle From: Dan Austin http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1048348940&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1008901664&indexURL=0&rd=1 Someone in OBC has got to win this! Dan Austin - dan@iamdanaustin.com Visit me at http://iamdanaustin.com "How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world." - William Shakespeare ================= To: "OBC Ramblings (E-mail)" Subject: The New Mayor of Overgrade City Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:45:27 -0800 From: Steve Carter Yikes! VG+ seems a bit high, how about Fair? Also, nice to see the reserve on this beauty isn't met yet. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1046672705 Steve Carter Applications Engineering Manager Multek - Roseville (651) 697-8971 Direct (651) 697-8900 Main ================= To: Subject: Frank's List ?? Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:40:53 -0500 From: "Chuck Paris" Does anyone know if Frank Thomas' list is accurate and what condition he prefers? I noticed that it is dated in February and I emailed David Kolenda but haven't heard from him yet. BTW, I have a couple of key cards to send to him (hopefully he still needsthem) plus three of his cards to get autographed. Since I already have a couple I thought I would ask him to sign them and forward them directly. Who needs an auto'd Original Frank Thomas ?? ================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:09:03 EST Subject: HOF wants my stuff! What do I do? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: t206guy@aol.com Greetings friends! I got an interesting email today. It was from Jeremy Jones from the Baseball Hall of fame. He said that the Baseball Hall of Fame has been unable to locate a copy of the earliest known baseball recording. The first recording known is a piece called Slide Kelly Slide and was issued on Edison Wax Cylinder. I have one and have it pictured on the "rare recordings" page of my web site. He basically asked if I would be interested in donating my copy as well as copy of Who's On First issued on Abbot and Costello's private label. (which I have two of) Some of you have donated to the Hall before. What should I do? I would love for them to have it if they are willing to display it or use it in some way. I would also LOVE to spend a few hours in their sound library. Should I attempt a trade or should I just be honored they asked? Should I give them the item then ask if arrangements could be made for me to paruse the sound Mark Atnip ================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:15:30 EST Subject: anyone know about the traveling hall of fame exhibit To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- anyone know when the traveling Hall of Fame exhibit is set to hit Los Angeles?-does anyone have a schedule of the dates it is to be in certain cities? also anyone remember the admission price to the Hall in ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF wants my stuff! What do I do? Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:03:52 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" Mark: The Baseball Hall of Fame is kind of like the Smithsonian in that they only display a fraction of their collection. On the other hand, they are quite liberal about access to their research materials, including sound recordings so there would be a use for your recordings in that it would makethem available to researchers and other interested baseball aficionados. I met Tim Wiles on my trip to Cooperstown. Tim is the director of the research center, a nice guy, and a straight shooter. If you wanted to call himand ask questions, I'm sure he would be glad to talk to you. Incidentally, he is aware of OBC and sympathetic to its philosophy. When I told him about Guru's Tipton guide to grading cards, he asked for a copy (which I gavehim) to be added to the HOF collection. If you do decide to donate, get them to specify a value for the donation. They are a not-for-profit educational institution, so the donation should be tax deductible. -Dave Fallen ----- Original Message ----- From: t206guy@aol.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:09 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF wants my stuff! What do I do? Greetings friends! I got an interesting email today. It was from Jeremy Jones from the Baseball Hall of fame. He said that the Baseball Hall of Fame has been unable to locate a copy of the earliest known baseball recording. The first recording known is a piece called Slide Kelly Slide and was issued on Edison Wax Cylinder. I have one and have it pictured on the "rare recordings" page ofmy web site. He basically asked if I would be interested in donating my copy as well as copy of Who's On First issued on Abbot and Costello's private label. (which I have two of) Some of you have donated to the Hall before. What should I do? I would love for them to have it if they are willing to display it or use it in someway. I would also LOVE to spend a few hours in their sound library. Should I attempt a trade or should I just be honored they asked? Should I givethem the item then ask if arrangements could be made for me to paruse the sound Mark Atnip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:15:28 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF wants my stuff! What do I do? To: T206Guy@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sweendoger@aol.com Yeah it happens to me all the time. I wish that damn HOF would stop pestering me about my collection... they call more often than the telemarketers! But seriouslly folks - what an honor to have something you own in the Hall. Congrats Mark! In a message dated 12/17/01 6:10:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, t206guy@aol.com > Subj:[OBC-Ramblings] HOF wants my stuff! What do I do? > Date:12/17/01 6:10:04 PM Pacific Standard Time > From:t206guy@aol.com > To:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Sent from the Internet > Greetings friends! > I got an interesting email today. It was from Jeremy Jones from the > Baseball Hall of fame. He said that the Baseball Hall of Fame has been > unable to locate a copy of the earliest known baseball recording. The > first recording known is a piece called Slide Kelly Slide and was issued on > Edison Wax Cylinder. I have one and have it pictured on the "rare > recordings" page of my web site. > He basically asked if I would be interested in donating my copy as well as > copy of Who's On First issued on Abbot and Costello's private label. > (which I have two of) > Some of you have donated to the Hall before. What should I do? I would > love for them to have it if they are willing to display it or use it in > some way. I would also LOVE to spend a few hours in their sound library. > Should I attempt a trade or should I just be honored they asked? Should I > give them the item then ask if arrangements could be made for me to paruse > the sound library? > Help > Mark Atnip ================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:37:47 EST Subject: Type Card List To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: dsh46@aol.com Hey Gang: Been thinking about this for a while..... In the early 90's I put together a list of all the baseball type cards I could find through 1980. it's based upon other checklists (buckett, scd, sports collector's bible, etc.) and my collections of ad and article clips. I haven't updated it in 10 years and i gave away most of my type card collection a while back, but I have hundreds of articles and ads I've saved from various hobby rags since then with bits and pieces of info i haven't organized and indexed yet. the list is rather long (2500+ entries, counting front/back/color variations, etc.) but i think it would make a good addition to the obc library, especially updated and corrected. the questions before the house are: 1) is there a place it could be posted, either on the website or another location, where it could be a "live" document, that is, updatable on the fly at least while it is being recompiled, with the ability to add notes and comments to the working copy? 2) whom among us would like to help me get this monstrosity in order? i think the work of updating it would have to be subdivided up into ACC groupings, with one or two people handling a category they are familiar with. i'll warn you, this is not a simple task! some sections (topps, tobacco, R-cards) are in pretty good shape and won't need much work, others are so-so (W cards in particular). also have a similar list with all topps cards (sport/non-sport) through 1980 as well that may warrant attention. the lists are in spreadsheet format and based on acc designations. if interested, e-mail me together with what types of cards you mignt be able to help out with. i'll keep a list for the next month or so and then see how it all looks. if you have any obscure price guides or checklist books, let me know too, although I have a good bookshelf of hobby pubs and periodicals, including some old guides. having said that, i hardly have any Trader Speaks or pubs pre 80/81 (old ads are a great source of information on certain sets). i may just post a list of what reference material i have after xmas. i think this will be a fun project and hope some of you are interested--i can't do the whole thing by myself! ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:33:39 -0800 Subject: A done deal... From: Peter M Iversen I thought you should know - that thanks to the prodding of my good friend Rick Redpath - after he sent me one of the last 4 cards I needed for the 1964 set (Hank & Willie) - I have found one of the high#'s at a show - then I found the #433 Yankee Team on e-bay and then #571 Gene Conley on e-bay too...! So after 37 years (with a brief break between 1965 and 1989) I have FINISHED my 1964 Topps - boyhood - set!!! The only problem is... I bought #433 second to the last and #571 last - but sellers on e-bay being what they are with their mailing habits - I received #571 second to the last and #433 last - so - for those of us who like to keep track of these things - which one was the LAST card for my set...? The one I BOUGHT last or the one I RECEIVED last....??? Any input would be appreciated before I render my final decision... GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ================= To: , Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] anyone know about the traveling hall of fame exhibit Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:44:45 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" Here is the web site for the traveling exhibit http://www.baseballasamerica.org/ and here's information on admission to the HOF http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/visitor_info/hours.htm I've been 4 times and would strongly recommend visiting it. -----Original Message----- From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com [mailto:jazzgirl1920s@aol.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:16 PM To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] anyone know about the traveling hall of fame hi- this is Linda- anyone know when the traveling Hall of Fame exhibit is to hit Los Angeles?-does anyone have a schedule of the dates it is to be in certain cities? also anyone remember the admission price to the Hall in To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:51:48 -0500 (EST) To: marcpeter@juno.com (Peter M Iversen), Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A done deal... From: Originaleek@webtv.net In my humble opinion, as Grant can tell you possession is far greater then intent. I believe you gotta go with the final card in your possession. Now I could certainly debate either side and you never know how any 12 people might respond, so I say settle the issue out of actual formal proceedings and go with logic. Unless you're Iggy to whom logic escapes. My $.02. We keep what we give away! ================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:02:23 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A done deal... To: Originaleek@webtv.net, marcpeter@juno.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jocraig@aol.com In a message dated 12/18/01 8:01:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, Originaleek@webtv.net writes: I must agree. It's the last card you receive, not plan to receive. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Ebay Dealer Advisory Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:13:24 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Hi friends. I feel burned but I hope I can prevent you from having similar misfortune with this dealer. Gory details to those who are interested. The short version is: overgrading, no refund on shipping, curt responses to my verbose letters. This will be the first time I will leave negative feedback after over 400 ebay transactions. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1036664710&ed1006919077 ================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:46:31 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A done deal... To: marcpeter@juno.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com Peter - I would think the last one you received would be the one to offically complete the set. If you are like me and have your collection in binders the empty space in a binder would be veery telling and until it is filled the set cannot be considered complete. ================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:08:40 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Type card collection followup w/shameless request From: "p_u_bil" I'd be willing to help with the aforementioned type card project, at least on the level of cleaning up the existing list with info from a newer SCD. I'm not sure that I have the knowledge of older/scarce issues required to arrange everything "just so," but it's worth a shot. About a year ago, I had the thought that OBC could assemble a member-collected image type list (members send in a scan example that we arrange on a web page list), although that project has admittedly gone not much further (one of these days!). From the "shameless request" dept, I made a nice step forward in my personal type collection this weekend at the TriStar show, picking up more than 100 #5 cards. My type collection is to gather the #5 card from every possible set (I don't count sets that lack number designations), thus I make a general request for any #5 that you may have sitting around, new or old. I'm currently building a list of #5 cards I have, but it's safe to say right now that anything you send is probably needed. Thanks in advance for any help! OBC: Because every card is "one of one" ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Phabulous Phillie! Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:06:29 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Just learned that I have a connection to Phillie phenom Nelson Figueroa. He graduated my alma mater, Brandeis University, in 1998 which is 10 years after I did. I think I will start searching for his cards as an excuse tolook in dime boxes at shows. :-) ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Phabulous Phillie! Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:16:17 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" Did you know that Nelson is the answer to a trivia question? He is one of the few Major Leaguers to have all 5 vowels in his last name. The others (along with their debut year) are: Dee Cousineau 1923 Ralph Mauriello 1958 Gene Rounsaville 1970 Ed Figueroa 1974 Dave Wainhouse 1991 Jesus Figueroa 1992 Bien Figueroa 1992 And if that wasn't enough useless knowledge there were 3 players that had all vowels in the first name. Aurelio Monteagudo 1963, Aurelio Rodriguez 1967, and Aurelio Lopez 1974. I'm really looking forward to the day when someone named Aurelio Figueroa makes his debut. >From: "Steve Rittenberg" >Reply-To: "Steve Rittenberg" >To: "Ramblings" >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Phabulous Phillie! >Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:06:29 -0500 >Just learned that I have a connection to Phillie phenom Nelson Figueroa. >He graduated my alma mater, Brandeis University, in 1998 which is 10 years >after I did. I think I will start searching for his cards as an excuse to >look in dime boxes at shows. :-) Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:04:33 EST Subject: Cards available for new homes and a history question. To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com, octraders@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- i have a question about a player on a card i have available - Mickey Owen- on his 1950 Bowman card it says "returned to organized baseball in 1949 when five-year banishment for jumping to Mexico was lifted" - Wouldn't the only reason a player jump to another league be more money? Was there more money playing in Mexico than the Major Leagues in the 40's?Hard for me to believe you could make more money playing in Mexico than Major Leagues! - that is my question and can you give me the names of other players besides Owen to leave major league teams to play in Mexico- did a lot of players do this in the 40's??? Now for the availables- 1950 Bowman # 78- Mickey Owen---# 111-Walter Cooper-----1951 Bowman # 167---- 1952 topps # 188 - Pobielan- Brooklyn Dodgers ( being a life long Yankee fan i hate the Dodgers- Brooklyn or L A- any time i get a dup of a Dodger card it's outta here- my husband just said, "Ok, when you get a dup of 52 topps # 312 Jackie Robinson let's see you put that one up for grabs!" i am lucky enough to have one- but if i ever get another - OUT it goes-!!)-# 51 Black Back- another Brooklyn Dodger-Jim Russell ----# 233- Bob Friend----1953 topps #'s 85- Bobby Morgan( another Dodger to be rid of)----- # 77- Mize- he is a Yankee but i have 2 of these now- good card for a new home--1956 topps # 109-- Enos Slaughter--# 129-Jake Martin---1957 topps # 33- Jim Small-----1960 topps #'s 348--Barry Shetrone--- 456-Red Sox coaches--- 472- Alvin Dark------1960 Leaf # 39---1969 topps # 636 - Woody Held---1970 topps # 449 - Jim Palmer----1972 topps # 650 - Sal Bando---NO TRADES required here just willing new owners-- Linda ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Mexican League Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:06:21 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" Linda's question about Mickey Owen got me interested so I searched the Net to find some information. The information I came across was very interesting so I thought I'd share it with the rest of you. I was not aware of this info and found it amazing that this all happened 25 years before Curt Flood. I'm surprised it took that long for someone to challange the reserve clause. I also found a book called "Veracruz Blues" by Mark Winegardner that mentions the Mexican League jumbers. I have not read it but it sounds interesting. The Mexican League was controlled by the millionaire Pasquel brothers, Jorge and Bernardo. With their major-league ambitions they began in 1946 to recruit talent with the lure of top-dollar contracts. In all 18 major leaguers defected. By offering unheard-of-salaries and multi-year contracts, the Pasquels put baseball's reserve clause in jeopardy. To Commissioner A.B. "Happy" Chandler and the owners, this posed an attack on the whole industry, not to mention an affront to U.S. pride, which was running pretty high after the war. The perception of danger was heightened since this threat was not an isolated instance. On June 3, 1946, an hour before a game against the Giants, Pittsburgh Pirates players had voted to strike. They sought recognition of an American Baseball Guild. While the walkout was averted at the last moment, in July a special meeting of clubs agreed on a minimum salary and other demands. The men in charge of baseball moved quickly to protect their interests. In April of '46, the commissioner banned for five years all players who went to Mexico. Though the ban would be overturned in 1949 as the result of a civil suit, it worked to stem the tide of defections. Still, organized baseball sought to end the Mexican threat altogether. Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Show report from Steve R. Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:49:37 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" My first attempt at writing this yesterday from a public computer bounced.... Lots of good stuff has been left out but this message is long enough I have about a half hour to kill and a big breakfast under my belt so here goes: I decided to make the trip up from Maryland to MA for the 3 day show this weekend. Had thought about visiting friends and family but that mostly fell through. I left about Thursday at 3pm and arrived at Spike Glidden's house at 9:30. Took a half hour for me to unpack all the dupe boxes I brought so I forgot about a 69 OPC Bench on ebay ending at 10pm and lost out. This was my first experience with a cable modem. I couldn't believe how fast it was! Spike and I immediate got down to bidding on ebay for fillers, cards with tape, ripped and so on. I think he stayed up until about 12:30, me until about 2:30am. Friday Spike worked from home while I continued to play on ebay. I went out to have lunch with college friends and then met Spike at the show at 3pm. The show was better than I expected. One of the first tables had a row of bargain boxes... Mainly stars from all four sports. I picked up a bunch of hockey for me and Ken and few Kelloggs stars, 51 Berra & Irvin and a few other things that have been forgotten by now. :) I asked the dealer about OPC baseball and he referred me to the table next door. Greg Fisher is a dealer who is eager to start doing business with OBC. Over the weekend, we all spent lots of time talking about what could be worked out. As I continued to walk around, I ran into Bob Reed and Spike looking over some trashed Kelloggs. I mentioned that I needed them all. :) The dealer had a 80-81 detached Magic and Erving. I offered him $5 but he said he'd have to check with his son about a price so low. (Gee. I should have written this report Friday when I still remembered everything. ) I found a guy with dime boxes and pulled out some hockey for my sets. Before we left, I purchased some cheap wax so we could open it at dinner. The guys (Ken, Spike, Bob) let me choose Papa Gino's. It brought back fond memories. At dinner, we used one table for opening wax, another for serving pizza and a third for eating of the pizza. After dinner, Spike and I sat in Bob Reeds car and handed cards back and forth. Spike and I went back to his home and this time he stayed up until 2:30. I think I was up until 4:30am. :) Saturday we woke up and headed back to the show. The highlights were meeting Robert Pigeon and family and trading some 58 commons in exchange for a brownie that his daughter didn't like. I told Robert and Bob Donaldson that I'd be willing to exchange cards for baked goods in the future. :) The afternoon consisted of Spike and I sitting in front of a dime box for four hours. Spike pulled every card #5 from every set for his collection. I pulled a near set of the Topps Pete Rose for Howard (and others, I hope). Ken was ready to go home but Spike and I kept stalling by asking him if he could find a good deal on new wax. Finally Ken wised up and left. :) Spike and I continued to the bitter end. I unconsciously left my list at the show to ensure I returned the next day. In fact, Friday night I did this as well but remembered as I was pulling out of the parking lot. I caused Bob Reed lots of confusion and nearly an accident as he was following me to Papa Ginos. :) Spike and I drove out to Ken's place. Can't remember if Ken was awake or not when we got there. I searched for my list a few dozen times and cursed myself for not having it. Instead, we had to check the lists I carry on my PDA though they aren't as up to date. Ken helped me with a huge pile of UV stuff, plus a near set of 85-86 Topps hockey (vintage to me). I also loaded up on stuff that was growing old in Ken's box, if I knew where it could be sent elsewhere. Meanwhile, Spike was opening up some of the NINE wax boxes I bought at the show. :) Dinner of chinese food and pizza soon followed. Because of my screw-up, I decided I'd come back to Ken's house the next day with my Donruss list. Spike and I again stayed up very late... I think I went to bed around 6am Sunday. Spike diligently put lots of effort into printing out an electronic version of the my wantlist, which I had e-mailed to myself as a zipped spreadsheet. Armed with list, I went back to Ken's Sunday and we started going through his Donruss vault. 2 1/2 hours later, I had finished 81D and got down to 2 or 3 cards for 82D, 83D, 82 Fl. THANKS Ken!! (More thanks to appear in a separate message). Being the compulsive fool I am, I returned to the show. Luckily, someone gave me a comp ticket outside so I didn't have to pay the stiff entrance fee. I tried finding the last 20-30 Pete Rose cards that I couldn't find the day before but no luck. I did make a great buy at the end of the show... A dealer I've seen a few times recently, Randy Kniffin, had some 64-65 Tall Boys that I passed on in Wilmington. This time I grabbed a Hull, Howe, Horton AS and SPs for pretty good money, reducing my list from 15 for that set down to just 4. Also picked up my first Mickey Mouse card from the thirties. That about wraps up this edition of "Steve bores us". Its snowing here in Mass as I sit in the library writing you. Again, really really big thanks to Spike for putting me up and putting up with me over the weekend. My 20000 dupes went from my card into his house and upstairs to his office (and back) 2 or 3 times. Spike couldn't have been a better host. I hope I can repay the kindness to him or perhaps someone else, on a visit to the Washington DC area. That's all for now. Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:55:26 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 54T Question/fake/variation? From: Josephine Sue Young A very odd looking 54T arrived today. #54 Vern Stephens...it's printed on slighly thicker cardboard stock that feels rough. Also, the scale is off a bit...the card is significantly longer than a regular card (about the width of the letters of the player's name), but it appears that the whole card is stretched rather than being cut long. It most noticable on the back, where the biography is 2-3 letters wider than it is on any other card. I thought maybe a sports illustrated variation except they were done on paper (right?). Maybe a fake, but the printing is great (and why would you fake a vern stephens?). Anybody have any thoughts on the card? ================= To: Subject: A NEW FACE #41 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:37:10 -0600 From: "David Kolenda" It's been a while since I've been able to put an OBC face with a name. On Sunday Bob Schaub became the 41'st OBCer I've meet. I've had a crew in Kentucky doing modifications to a pizza plant off and onsince mid October. A few weeks back when I was home, I decided to check the directory. Had a feeling that one of the newer members was in Ky. Hopedby chance he was only an hour or so away and I could find some time to getaway and hook up. My to my surprise the good ole Lycos driving directionssaid. 7.8 miles from the plant. On Sunday I drove over and picked Bob up and off we headed to Cincy for a show. Much to my surprise there was a couple of dealers with some old stuff. Even more surprised was I to find the 62 Uecker rookie, puting that setto We got to spend a few hours at the show and a chance to grab some lunch before the cell phone went off. Droped Bob off and back to the grind. Next stop, South side of L.A. sometime in the next 10 days. Hopefully I can meet up with # 42. Happy Holidays to all. David K I GOT UM, YOU NEED UM, YOU GET UM. ================= To: Subject: type card lists Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:36:59 -0600 From: "George Vrechek" In response to type card list idea: I also have a type card list which is on an old appleworks data base file. The apple worked pretty well given its 64K memory. That's the problem in that I don't know it can be converted. I think it is pretty complete with: year of issue, name ACC designation if any, and estimated value of a common circa 1982. The list stops in about 1988. If anyone can figure out how to use it I will send it to them - via regular mail on alarge ================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:37:20 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Warning!!! UV Trivia From: Josephine Sue Young Probably not Topps best quality control year. In a brief look at the 2002 Topps issue, a couple of great trivia questions came up. Here they are... According to the 2002 Topps set... Which player with over 200 career steals has the fewest career steals? Which player with over 100 career wins has the fewest career wins? Who shattered the single season mark for walks (left Barry in the dust!)? Who is the all time stolen base leader? I'll try to find a real card for people answering one or all questions... ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: some available stuff Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:30:40 -0500 From: "Donna Wells" 72 Kelloggs ATG Mickey Cochrane 70 Kelloggs #36 Fregosi 63 Topps # 388 72 Topps # 371, 382, 383, 389 82 Kmart Bench 89 Bowman insert of Ted Williams 88 Score Henderson #13 have several 92 Bazooka 1953 topps repros send wants. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:09:33 -0800 Subject: a done deal - is done...! From: Peter M Iversen The vote is in and it's unanimous (including my vote) - the last card got is the last card got - not the last card bought! Thanks to Mike H, Earl, Rick R., Lorin, Bob R., Rick E., Grant, Mark T., Guru, Bob D'., Marshall and Keith for your responses! Here are some excerpts for those who are "Must be present to be put in the binder." "so I say settle the issue out of actual formal proceedings and go with logic. Unless you're Iggy to whom logic escapes." "For the purposes of determining which card shall be designated as the last card to complete a set, use the following guideline: The last card to complete a set shall be identified as the last card (hereafter referred to as "the final card" or "the last card") that is added to the set, which, being the last or final card (i.e. "the final card" or "the last card") added to the set shall receive the designation of: last card to complete the set." "It's the last card you receive, not plan to receive." "...the set is not complete until you can set back and browse through the binder and see every space occupied by a card." "..the empty space in a binder would be very telling and until it is filled the set cannot be considered complete." "...the last card to go in the binder is the one that counts. It's without doubt the most satisfying." "I say received last - I too like to give credit to the rascal that sends me the last card." "I also think the last card that fills the hole in your binder completes your set. "It's absolutely the last card in your possession, no question!" "No matter when it is paid for, until you get the card, the set isn't finished :-)" Who can argue with all of that? So I would like to announce that after a 37 year quest my 1964 Topps set was completed by e-bayer / dealer John Morrison with card # 433 - the Yankee Team. It is interesting to note that this is the second set that was completed with a team card - Josh got me the 1963 Braves card to put that set to bed... I have rambled enough - goodnight! ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Fw: Recent Acquisitions -- Mike Wheat Cards Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:05:01 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Mike Wheat has a few low grade T206s available for those working on that set. Shipping is usually $5 per order. ----- Original Message ----- From: Orders To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: Recent Acquisitions -- Mike Wheat Cards Our website has just been updated to include all cards which we have recently inventoried. The latest selection is comprised of a diverse assortment of nearly 1000 cards dating from 1909 through 1966, and encompassing baseball, football, and basketball. Click on the links below to visit our site. MIKE WHEAT RECENT ACQUISITIONS (to TABLE OF CONTENTS) RECENT ACQUISITIONS (to beginning of listings) <<<< Since the few people who've tried this, missed my apparently obscure point, I'm going to give one answer away.... Which player with over 100 career wins has the fewest career wins (according to topps 2002 baseball cards) Answer...Mike Mussina...after win totals of 4 18 14 16 19 19 15 13 18 11 and 17, his 2002 card gives him a career total of 64 wins. Good luck with the others. On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Josephine Sue Young wrote: > Probably not Topps best quality control year. In a brief look at the 2002 > Topps issue, a couple of great trivia questions came up. Here they are... > According to the 2002 Topps set... > Which player with over 200 career steals has the fewest career steals? > Which player with over 100 career wins has the fewest career wins? > Who shattered the single season mark for walks (left Barry in the dust!)? > Who is the all time stolen base leader? > I'll try to find a real card for people answering one or all questions... > Mac > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: New Blooper Card Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:05:02 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" Please excuse the mentioning of a UV card, but it does deal with a vintage player. We all know that many times Topps put the wrong picture on a card. Well, they did it again. The 2001 Topps Tribute is a set containing only players who have had their jersey numbers retired. Well, Earl Averill (Howard EarlAverill) is in the set, but the picture is of his son Earl Douglas Averillwho was also a major leaguer in the mid 50's to early 60's. Even if you don't know what either Averill looks like, the hat was a dead give-a-way as Earl Sr. ended his career in 1941, long before the hat pictured on the cardwas invented. Back in Sr's day, the caps had a simple C on it. Here is alink to an eBay picture if you are curious: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1049948516 You all know I collect Earl Averill memorabilia, so now I need TWO of thesecards - one for the father's binder and one for the son's binder. I checked with my local card shop -- $40 for a pack of four cards (choke, gasp). I've seen them on eBay for a buck plus inflated shipping which I may just have to pay because I'll never buy a pack at that price. I any of you have that card and want to get rid of it, it sure would be welcome here! -Dave Fallen ================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:58:42 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A done deal... To: marcpeter@juno.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com One thing I have learned is that the sale is never completed until you have a PO in hand. To me, it's always been the last one I place in the binder or ================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:42:47 EST Subject: Rocker hits the road, and the Purple Raiders rock on.... To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: malsman250@cs.com The short but eventful era of John Rocker with the Tribe ended today - none too soon. When Rocker came to Cleveland, I was all for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe, I thought, he was just a guy who runs his mouth too much - something I can empathize with. Turns out, the guy is just a big jerk. Came to the point in Cleveland that nobody on the team was talking to him. Ought to be a lot of fun in Texas, with both Rocker and Everett. Maybe there are some more free agents that Hart can add. Too bad Ty Cobb is dead. And, I also have to give the annual props to the Mount Union Purple Raiders, the old alma mater, for once again winning the Division III NCAA football championship. I think that the won-loss record now is up to about 80 wins in the last 81 games, 5 championships in the last 8 years. Not too shabby, if I do say so myself. Bill Malson ================= To: Subject: availables Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:55:02 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Fellas -- Here's a few that have been in my dupes box for too long, including some basketball: 1977-78 Basketball: 25, 42, 64, 84, 89, 98, 109, 131 1973: 2, 6 1971: 13, 17, 80, 82, 87, 96, 103, 106, 108, 111, 116, 119, 120, 125, 127,128, 129, 130, 153, 171, 172, 223, 256, 257, 258, 261 1970: 274, 397 1969: 333, 351, 352, 360, 361 1968: 238 Please claim them! Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:30:59 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker hits the road, and the Purple Raiders rock on.... To: Malsman250@cs.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com In a message dated 12/19/2001 8:44:46 PM Central Standard Time, malsman250@cs.com writes: > Maybe there are some more free agents that Hart can add. Too bad Ty Cobb is > dead. We'd take him in a flash. - Doug ================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:25:31 EST Subject: An odd assortment: Update To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jocraig@aol.com The following 12 cards are still available. 1960 172, 249, 278, 284 1961 33, 123 1963 35 1964 71 1966 64 1967 214, 216, 225 Cards are going out today to Geno, Grant, Ray, Mac, John C., Mike W., Bob D'A, Jeff D., and Gary M. Help me find good homes for Christmas for these remaining guys. Thanks. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Don't you love it when.... Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:32:55 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" .... you find things like this on ebay? Makes up for lots of things thatdon't go our way. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1050455414 ================= To: "'OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Ebay Tipton 58 Mantle/Aaron???? Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:21:49 -0500 From: "Gonzalez, Ignacio Alberto" Here is about a ~20% Tipton 58 Mantle/Aaron for the taking. Seller has subpar feedback, but a couple of the complaints seem to be about his shipping costs. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1051354239 -Lovely Day, Iggy... ================= To: "VCT" , Subject: 64 Topps availables Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:41:29 -0500 From: "John Collins" 20 different 1964 Topps cards arrived in my mailbox from ebay this afternoon. As luck would have it, between winning this lot and receiving it, I have given up on the 64 set, as some of you know. So these are going immediately to the waiver wire, and will not see the dupe box if I can help it. First come, first serve, so speak up if you need them! Also, this is a nice lot, with most cards EX or better: 15, 26, 30, 49, 54, 61, 77, 83, 91, 96, 110, 117, 122, 123, 132, 239, 366, 369, 370, 484. John C. Collins ================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:18:20 EST Subject: Auctions by mzccards To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi gang, Just a little tip to pass along about this eBay auctioneer, since I notice that some of you are bidding. You may have noticed in the payment description the phrase "Please do not bid on items and then try to get shipping prices discounted." Call that Bob's Rule, LOL. This is what happened last week. I won 12 auctions from this guy, good stuff, too, cards from 52 and 53 for a buck or two. My total came to $22.09. He sends me an e-mail that says my total with shipping is $35.59 -- in other words, $13.50 for shipping. Well I wrote him back and said that most reputable dealers combine shipping, and I told him that since SASE was an option, I would send him a dozen SASEs if he didn't come down on the cost. He did come down to $7, which includes shipping and insurance. I haven't gotten my cards yet, as I only won over the weekend, but I am going to be interested in seeing how it all pans out. His feedback is almost spotless, so I don't know if many people have won multiple auctions from this Just thought I'd pass that along. ================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:30:04 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Input requested! From: Originaleek@webtv.net I am 99.9% sure what the consensus will be but here is my mini-dilemma: As folks are probably aware from my wantlists, I collect Detroit Tigers cards and my HOM nominee is Charlie Maxwell. Now I believe that it is only appropriate that Smokey have his very own binder separate and apart from the other Tiger cards. That being said, I have anxiety attacks with the thought of taking my Maxwells out of the Tigers binders. Once one has filled a hole in a binder I think it is un-natural to de-fill it. Therefore the answer seems to be simple: dupes. But then again dupes are for trading or giving away! So, unless someone has some info on bi-location techniques, I need input. Do I leave my present Maxwells in their respective Tiger Team binders and add those years to my Charlie Maxwell HOM wantlist, cognizant of the fact that I am seeking dupes? Is that legal in OBC? I may regret asking this but, what say you out there? We keep what we give away! ================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:56:09 -0500 (EST) To: Originaleek@webtv.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! From: Neal Thomas It's simple--two binders--two Maxwells. Then the third one you get would technically become a dupe (or I guess it would be a "trip" if you want to be real technical. This is all well within the common etiquette boundaries as defined by guys who collect beat-up pieces of ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Originaleek@webtv.net Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! Date: 12/20/2001 10:30pm I am 99.9% sure what the consensus will be but here is my mini- As folks are probably aware from my wantlists, I collect Detroit cards and my HOM nominee is Charlie Maxwell. Now I believe that it is only appropriate that Smokey have his very own binder separate and from the other Tiger cards. That being said, I have anxiety attacks the thought of taking my Maxwells out of the Tigers binders. Once one has filled a hole in a binder I think it is un-natural to de-fill it. Therefore the answer seems to be simple: dupes. But then again dupes for trading or giving away! So, unless someone has some info on bi-location techniques, I need input. Do I leave my present Maxwells their respective Tiger Team binders and add those years to my Charlie Maxwell HOM wantlist, cognizant of the fact that I am seeking dupes? that legal in OBC? I may regret asking this but, what say you out We keep what we give away! ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:05:05 -0500 To: Originaleek@webtv.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! From: Mark S Talbot You don't get it EEK!!!! You are to amass a shrine to "Paw-Paw" - which means hoards of "Sunday Homers" in the folder. I have my sets and my "Stormin' Norman" folder - there are plenty of dupes, trips or more in the folder but I also have a card in with my sets. Now EEK, don't get me wrong, I gladly send out a Cash card if someone needs one and I have an extra - but in due time I fully expect to be the go to guy for Norm Cash stuff. Just like Grant is the point man for Hoeft, Rick for Callison, Dan for Piersall, Andy for Gordon etc... All these guys have plenty of stuff from their HOM nominee. I mean Rick if your tuned in to this - How many `64 Giants of your Hero Callison do you have now? He's probably close to being able to send every guy (and gal) in OBC one of those babies, or maybe not but I know we all send Rick various Callison stuff when we come across it. In the final analysis EEK, its your collection - you collect as many and as much of something that you want. If it pleases you to only keep one or two in your collection and pass on all the rest - then do it. If you want to see if you can "corner" the market and snatch up all the "Chucks" that you can then go for it. JUST HAVE FUN WITH IT!!!! For what it's worth - That's my take on the issue. Have a happy Holiday all!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * Originaleek@webtv.net wrote: > I am 99.9% sure what the consensus will be but here is my mini-dilemma: > As folks are probably aware from my wantlists, I collect Detroit Tigers > cards and my HOM nominee is Charlie Maxwell. Now I believe that it is > only appropriate that Smokey have his very own binder separate and apart > from the other Tiger cards. That being said, I have anxiety attacks with > the thought of taking my Maxwells out of the Tigers binders. Once one > has filled a hole in a binder I think it is un-natural to de-fill it. > Therefore the answer seems to be simple: dupes. But then again dupes are > for trading or giving away! So, unless someone has some info on > bi-location techniques, I need input. Do I leave my present Maxwells in > their respective Tiger Team binders and add those years to my Charlie > Maxwell HOM wantlist, cognizant of the fact that I am seeking dupes? Is > that legal in OBC? I may regret asking this but, what say you out there? > We keep what we give away! > EEK > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:07:29 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Dear Mr. Kilburn....no...Kilburne...Kilbourne...uh....Erle, how's that? This is a total no-brainer. As Pseudo-Commish of the HOM, it is my firm opinion that: A. The cards you have in your binder stay in your binder. B. The new "Smokey" or "Smoky" binder obviously has holes where you could put cards, but they are already taking up space in a previously occupied binder, so squatter's rights exist, and the first cards in the first binder must remain there. Clear? C. If you haven't already got a separate binder for Smokey, or as some would call him, Smoky, this would constitute an absolute disgrace and could very easily lead to expulsion from the HOM. Look at the trouble Pete Rose is having, do you want that to happen to Charley? (Charlie?) D. As you can plainly see, this task is not one to be taken lightly. By now I would hope you have begged and pleaded for anyone with one of those alphabetical listing catalogs (catalogues) to have provided you with a complete (Walton would call it compleat) list of ALL issues of Chuck. I trust this clarifies things for you Earle. I am 99.9% sure what the consensus will be but here is my mini-dilemma: As folks are probably aware from my wantlists, I collect Detroit Tigers cards and my HOM nominee is Charlie Maxwell. Now I believe that it is only appropriate that Smokey have his very own binder separate and apart from the other Tiger cards. That being said, I have anxiety attacks with the thought of taking my Maxwells out of the Tigers binders. Once one has filled a hole in a binder I think it is un-natural to de-fill it. Therefore the answer seems to be simple: dupes. But then again dupes are for trading or giving away! So, unless someone has some info on bi-location techniques, I need input. Do I leave my present Maxwells in their respective Tiger Team binders and add those years to my Charlie Maxwell HOM wantlist, cognizant of the fact that I am seeking dupes? Is that legal in OBC? I may regret asking this but, what say you out there? We keep what we give away! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:09:33 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! From: Neal Thomas Speaking of those catalogs, I am very far behind on getting my Don Zimmer lists posted, and would love to have a list of Zim's cards to add to my page. Any help out there? ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: "Grant Rainsley" Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! Date: 12/20/2001 08:07pm Dear Mr. Kilburn....no...Kilburne...Kilbourne...uh....Erle, how's This is a total no-brainer. As Pseudo-Commish of the HOM, it is my opinion that: A. The cards you have in your binder stay in your binder. B. The new "Smokey" or "Smoky" binder obviously has holes where you put cards, but they are already taking up space in a previously binder, so squatter's rights exist, and the first cards in the first must remain there. Clear? C. If you haven't already got a separate binder for Smokey, or as some would call him, Smoky, this would constitute an absolute disgrace and could easily lead to expulsion from the HOM. Look at the trouble Pete Rose having, do you want that to happen to Charley? (Charlie?) D. As you can plainly see, this task is not one to be taken lightly. By now I would hope you have begged and pleaded for anyone with one of those alphabetical listing catalogs (catalogues) to have provided you with a complete (Walton would call it compleat) list of ALL issues of Chuck. I trust this clarifies things for you Earle. I am 99.9% sure what the consensus will be but here is my mini- As folks are probably aware from my wantlists, I collect Detroit cards and my HOM nominee is Charlie Maxwell. Now I believe that it is only appropriate that Smokey have his very own binder separate and from the other Tiger cards. That being said, I have anxiety attacks the thought of taking my Maxwells out of the Tigers binders. Once one has filled a hole in a binder I think it is un-natural to de-fill it. Therefore the answer seems to be simple: dupes. But then again dupes for trading or giving away! So, unless someone has some info on bi-location techniques, I need input. Do I leave my present Maxwells their respective Tiger Team binders and add those years to my Charlie Maxwell HOM wantlist, cognizant of the fact that I am seeking dupes? that legal in OBC? I may regret asking this but, what say you out We keep what we give away! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:50:51 -0800 To: Originaleek@webtv.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! From: Erik & Leticia Greenwood HOM is the one place where hording is acceptable. Originaleek@webtv.net wrote: > I am 99.9% sure what the consensus will be but here is my mini-dilemma: > As folks are probably aware from my wantlists, I collect Detroit Tigers > cards and my HOM nominee is Charlie Maxwell. Now I believe that it is > only appropriate that Smokey have his very own binder separate and apart > from the other Tiger cards. That being said, I have anxiety attacks with > the thought of taking my Maxwells out of the Tigers binders. Once one > has filled a hole in a binder I think it is un-natural to de-fill it. > Therefore the answer seems to be simple: dupes. But then again dupes are > for trading or giving away! So, unless someone has some info on > bi-location techniques, I need input. Do I leave my present Maxwells in > their respective Tiger Team binders and add those years to my Charlie > Maxwell HOM wantlist, cognizant of the fact that I am seeking dupes? Is > that legal in OBC? I may regret asking this but, what say you out there? > We keep what we give away! > EEK > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:43:38 EST Subject: Re: Input requested! To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:30:04, Originaleek@webtv.net writes: << Once one has filled a hole in a binder I think it is un-natural to de-fill it. Therefore the answer seems to be simple: dupes. But then again dupes are for trading or giving away! So, unless someone has some info on bi-location techniques, I need input. Do I leave my present Maxwells in their respective Tiger Team binders and add those years to my Charlie Maxwell HOM wantlist, cognizant of the fact that I am seeking dupes? Is that legal in OBC? I may regret asking this but, what say you out there? >> Let's see... how should I answer this one? Imagine collecting cards you already have in your collection. Hmmmm. Who would do such a ridiculous thing? I'll have to think about that one. Well, I don't want to deal with that right now. I'm busy looking for the last 60 high numbers from 1967. This will complete my run of Topps sets from 1966-1985 or so.... TWICE Ken M ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:42:22 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! To: , From: lzurawski@aol.com I collect Cubs team sets in addition to complete sets. For years where I'm working on a complete set, the Cubs sets take priority, so I fill those holes first, and in cases where I have 2 of a card, the Cubs team set gets the one in better condition. This adds to the challenge (not to mention the expense) of completing sets. For example, completing my 1962 set required acquiring two copies of the high-number Jim McKnight rookie, which is already especially tough to find because it's a multi-player card featuring players from several different teams, so it tends to get grabbed up by team set collectors. Larry Z ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:59:52 EST Subject: Home Made Cabinet Cards To: From: lzurawski@aol.com I've been playing around with my printer/scanner/copier and have managed to make some really nice looking, large-size repros of some cards. Have any of you tried anything like this? I scan both the front and back of the card, then print them using the "print on full sheet" option, setting the printer to the "highest quality" setting. I print the card back on regular paper, and the front on photo-quality paper. Then I paste them to a piece of cardboard, and viola, have a large (about 8x10) card that's perfect for displaying on a bookshelf or wherever. The resolution and detail are surprisingly good. In fact, I've noticed a lot of flaws on the blow ups that can't be seen on the original card. (And in case you're worried about the reproduction lacking the Tipton qualities of the original, rest assured that the creases show up quite nicely on the repro. You can also trim the corners to be consistent with the So far, my collection of "cabinet" cards includes the Sporting Life Frank Chance T-206 Walter Johnson 1934 Goudey Ki Ki Cuyler 1948 Bowman Bob Feller 1948-49 Bowman Basketball "Jumpin'" Joe Fulks 1956 Topps Hank Aaron 1959 Topps Roberto Clemente (looks _really_ sharp!) 1961-62 Fleer Basketball Wilt the Stilt 1962 Topps Mickey Mantle 1963 Topps Ernie Banks 1969 Topps NL Pitching Leaders (all HOFers) 1969-70 Topps Basketball Lew Alcindor 1972 Topps Pete Rose Larry Z. ================= To: obc-wantlist@yahoogroups.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Any Dodger fans out there? Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 11:35:45 -0500 From: "James Moleta" Linda may not be very interested in this lot, but any Dodger collectors into oddball might like these: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1048900188 If for some reason the link doesnt work, search ebay for lot# 1048900188. Happy Holidays! Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:29:15 -0500 (EST) To: Traderdoug@aol.com Subject: Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team From: keithsummers@webtv.net Rocker can play on my team any day. First Klesko then Rocker. I wish the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio Veras, Peso Borbon or Eddie Peerez. I'd also go to dinner at Rocker's house before I'd go to dinner at the house of one the people he mentioned on the 7 train. No offense to anyone on the list but I understand exactly what Rocker meant & he is one of my top 3 fav current players "now"! This is my dream current line up: 3B-Matt Williams/Glaus OF-Brian Giles OF-Eric Davis OF-Andrew Jones P-Randy J. P-Todd Jones Adam Dunn Rick Elder Marlon Byrd Note: I need some lefty SPs & some middlemen. These are not the best guys in MLB, but my favs. I'd pull a Charlie Finley & bring in a pinch runner specialist named Kevin Little (undoubtedly the World's Fastest White Man ever, with apologies to Don Bebee, Tim Dwight, Bobby Morrow, Brett Butler, Biggio & McCafferty). This guy won the World Indoor Championship in the 200 meter dash a few yrs back. Know of any other real fast white guys? Like I said, no offense to anyone but I prefer to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like Canseco, Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Hideous Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some of you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me. I'll trade you all the Albie Lopez cards I have for Rocker! ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:07:54 EST Subject: Fwd: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com In a message dated 12/21/01 12:31:17 PM Central Standard Time, keithsummers@webtv.net writes: > , no offense to anyone but I prefer > to watch & collect MAINLY white players > anyone else have a problem with this crap being sent to our group? ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 11:10:56 -0800 From: Steve Carter Probably all of us. Keith, was that a joke or were you serious? -----Original Message----- From: smartalecx@aol.com [mailto:smartalecx@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 1:08 PM To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fwd: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team In a message dated 12/21/01 12:31:17 PM Central Standard Time, keithsummers@webtv.net writes: , no offense to anyone but I prefer to watch & collect MAINLY white players anyone else have a problem with this crap being sent to our group? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor . ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:33:05 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team To: keithsummers@webtv.net, TraderDoug@aol.com From: Wite3@aol.com If this was not a joke, then i feel that you are a very small minded person. I identify with Bonds, AROD, and Nomo just fine. I grew up knowing nearly no white people and being the only white jewish basketball player in the neighborhood I had my share of teasing but not of racism. It was not until I got to high school and college where i really encountered racism, from the white people in my school who said all sorts of crap about my "non-white" friends...it was the best lesson in the world. I take nothing for granted and treat everyone as equal as i can...Rocker deserves all the crap he gets (other than violence), he is a hick and racist. And if you idolize that behaviour, I feel sorry for you. ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:07:41 -0500 To: keithsummers@webtv.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team From: Mark S Talbot Well Keith, I considered simply deleting this garbage and not acknowledging it with a reply but I just couldn't. To even make the insinuation that you relate to people based upon the color of their skin or their cultural heritage is bigoted, prejudicial and just plain ignorant. Keith - you have a right to your opinion - but if it is going to be as offensive as those opinions held by John Rocker and other less than educated folks could you please consider sharing it in another forum. I personally found your comments distasteful, upsetting and inappropriate for an OBC ramble. I don't want to make an enemy of you but I would ask you to kindly consider keeping these kinds of opinions to yourself. I am sorry if others do not agree with me but I think you were wrong to post this "stuff" on our group server Keith. I also believe that if I did not say something about it I would be just as wrong as you in my silence. Now that I have that off my chest I am ready to forgive and forget this incident Keith - but please the next time you feel the need to "spout off" please think about those of us that see the world as more than just black and white. That's my opinion and I guess that you are all welcome to it. I hope that it offends no one or that it only offended a few of you. BE WELL!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * keithsummers@webtv.net wrote: > Rocker can play on my team any day. First Klesko then Rocker. I wish > the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio Veras, Peso > Borbon or Eddie Peerez. I'd also go to dinner at Rocker's house before > I'd go to dinner at the house of one the people he mentioned on the 7 > train. No offense to anyone on the list but I understand exactly what > Rocker meant & he is one of my top 3 fav current players "now"! This > is my dream current line up: > C-Kendall > C-Fick > 1B-Bagwell > 1B-Klesko > 2B-Kent > SS-Chipper > 3B-Matt Williams/Glaus > OF-Drew > OF-Bonds > OF-Brian Giles > OF-Eric Davis > OF-Everett > OF-Ricky > OF-Floyd > OF-Andrew Jones > DH-Canseco > P-Benson > P-Clemens > P-Woods > P-Randy J. > P-Rocker > P-Hoffman > P-Todd Jones > P-Koch > Minors > -------- > Adam Dunn > Rick Elder > Marlon Byrd > ------------------ > Note: I need some lefty SPs & some middlemen. These are not the best > guys in MLB, but my favs. I'd pull a Charlie Finley & bring in a pinch > runner specialist named Kevin Little (undoubtedly the World's Fastest > White Man ever, with apologies to Don Bebee, Tim Dwight, Bobby Morrow, > Brett Butler, Biggio & McCafferty). This guy won the World Indoor > Championship in the 200 meter dash a few yrs back. Know of any other > real fast white guys? Like I said, no offense to anyone but I prefer > to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like Canseco, > Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Hideous > Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some of > you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me. I'll > trade you all the Albie Lopez cards I have for Rocker! > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:11:30 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team From: Neal Thomas I have a feeling that this is going to become the first "big issue" since I joined OBC almost two years ago, and it rightfully deserves to be so. But an interesting thought I had--aside from the dozen or so members I have met, I have no idea is any of you are white, black, yellow, green, or orange, and it shouldn't matter in the least! I was raised, and am raising my kids, that ANY type of prejudice and bigotry is absolutely wrong--no arguments, no questions--just plain wrong!. And I feel so strongly about this that I will not hesitate to tell my opinions on racism to anyone and at any time. I've lived in the rural northeast, the inner city of Philadelphia, the outskirts of Pittsburgh, and the deep south of South Carolina, and nowhere in this country (or world) should words or actions be taken against anyone because of their race, or religion. It is what makes this country great. OK, off my soapbox. But like Mark, I couldn't stay quiet about this ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Mark S Talbot Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team Date: 12/21/2001 04:07pm Well Keith, I considered simply deleting this garbage and not acknowledging it with a reply but I just couldn't. To even make the insinuation that you to people based upon the color of their skin or their cultural heritage is bigoted, prejudicial and just plain ignorant. Keith - you have a right to your opinion - but if it is going to be as offensive as those opinions held by John Rocker and other less than educated folks could you please sharing it in another forum. I personally found your comments upsetting and inappropriate for an OBC ramble. I don't want to make enemy of you but I would ask you to kindly consider keeping these kinds of opinions to yourself. I am sorry if others do not agree with me but I think you were wrong to post this "stuff" on our group server Keith. I also believe that if I did not say something about it I would be just as wrong as you in my Now that I have that off my chest I am ready to forgive and forget this incident Keith - but please the next time you feel the need to "spout please think about those of us that see the world as more than just and white. That's my opinion and I guess that you are all welcome to it. I that it offends no one or that it only offended a few of you. BE REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * keithsummers@webtv.net wrote: > Rocker can play on my team any day. First Klesko then Rocker. I > the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio Veras, > Borbon or Eddie Peerez. I'd also go to dinner at Rocker's house > I'd go to dinner at the house of one the people he mentioned on the > train. No offense to anyone on the list but I understand exactly > Rocker meant & he is one of my top 3 fav current players "now"! > is my dream current line up: > C-Kendall > C-Fick > 1B-Bagwell > 1B-Klesko > 2B-Kent > SS-Chipper > 3B-Matt Williams/Glaus > OF-Drew > OF-Bonds > OF-Brian Giles > OF-Eric Davis > OF-Everett > OF-Ricky > OF-Floyd > OF-Andrew Jones > DH-Canseco > P-Benson > P-Clemens > P-Woods > P-Randy J. > P-Rocker > P-Hoffman > P-Todd Jones > P-Koch > Minors > -------- > Adam Dunn > Rick Elder > Marlon Byrd > ------------------ > Note: I need some lefty SPs & some middlemen. These are not the > guys in MLB, but my favs. I'd pull a Charlie Finley & bring in a > runner specialist named Kevin Little (undoubtedly the World's > White Man ever, with apologies to Don Bebee, Tim Dwight, Bobby > Brett Butler, Biggio & McCafferty). This guy won the World Indoor > Championship in the 200 meter dash a few yrs back. Know of any > real fast white guys? Like I said, no offense to anyone but I > to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like > Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Hideous > Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some > you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me. > trade you all the Albie Lopez cards I have for Rocker! > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: More on the matter Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:43:38 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Neal just took the words out of my mouth....some of them at least. The thought has occurred to me in the past, that having met so FEW OBC'ers (much to my regret) I have no idea what race or religion or anything else might apply to about 98% of the group that I haven't met. I find that kind of neat. It's probably one of the reasons we don't call "The Draw" the Christmas Draw, or the Ramadan Draw, or the Hanukkah Draw. It is one thing for guys to yak one on one about what their feelings are about various issues, but I have never thought of OBC as a political forum at all. I wouldn't be here if it was. In my job, I have been involved in a lot of scraps over the years, won most, lost a couple too....but I can truthfully say that I never gonged anyone just because they were a different color than me, or had a different religion, or whatever. They got gonged because they were knobs, and the above descriptors really didn't enter into the equation. On the other hand, I have been attacked on occasion simply because I wore a uniform of authority, which is not really much of a change from attacking someone based on THEIR religion or color. Bottom line, my opinion is: Uncalled for, inappropriate, and totally unacceptable comments. Who needs ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:58:11 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team To: keithsummers@webtv.net, TraderDoug@aol.com From: tply@aol.com Keith - I guess you need to take me off your mailing list as I prefer not to hear from you again on any subject. I am well known in this group as a Joe Morgan fan and oh by the way he is black. It would probably be best for all if you found another group that fits you better. OBC is not and never will endorse John Rocker's racist attitude and I am comfortable saying that since I have met many of the members over the last 10+ years. It is to bad I had to return from Washington, DC after a long and hard detail only to be confronted with your racist email. While I was in Washington, DC doing my part to protect this country from terrorist from the likes of Afghanistan (one of the worst human rights offenders in the world, ask any woman) you thought to dampen the Holidays with a disgusting "Ramblings"! No need to respond to this message, just go away. Another Baseball Quote: "I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me....All I ask is that you respect me as a human being." --------Jackie Robinson Tripleplay (Rick) ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] More on the matter Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:57:29 -0500 From: "Bob Corvello" My opinion Quite frankly, I am shocked by all of this and left virtually speechless. I have been in this group since its inception and we have had some rough times, but I have never been so disappointed. Bob C. ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:19:20 -0500 (EST) To: keithsummers@webtv.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team From: Originaleek@webtv.net As a new OBC member I am appalled at the comments Keith made. His ideas do not represent what I believe OBC to be all about and I think it is reprehensible for him to assume that it would be OK to make such statements under the guise of OBC Ramblings. I trust and support the OBC governing body in whatever action they deem appropriate in addressing such class-less acts. We keep what we give away! ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 22:37:40 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Moving, sort of From: "jimbo777777" Howdy Folks, I'm happy to announced that high-speed internet has finally come to the hilltowns! I'm now in the process of phasing out my old Internet Service Provider, and switching over to the new. My new email address, effective immediately, is: My old jimbo@albany.net will work for awhile yet, but it's definitely on its way out. I've changed my yahoo groups info. For purposes of our want list access from the web page (Dan?), my own personal web page will be gone also. I don't have a new one yet. Can you change me over to the "old" way of keeping it right on the OBC page? And help me get changed on the OBC Directory? Jim Beauchemin ================= To: Subject: More.... Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:42:27 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" I just wanted to publicly support the comments made by Gary, Steve, Mark, Neal, and Bob. I sent a note earlier this afternoon to Keith and the OBCAC registering my unhappiness. I hope those of you who may not want to post public comments will air your feelings that way as well. Bigotry is not what our group stands for, and we can't let it pass uncontested. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark S Talbot To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team > Well Keith, > I considered simply deleting this garbage and not acknowledging it > a reply but I just couldn't. To even make the insinuation that you relate > to people based upon the color of their skin or their cultural heritage is > bigoted, prejudicial and just plain ignorant. Keith - you have a right to > your opinion - but if it is going to be as offensive as those opinions > by John Rocker and other less than educated folks could you please > sharing it in another forum. I personally found your comments > upsetting and inappropriate for an OBC ramble. I don't want to make an > enemy of you but I would ask you to kindly consider keeping these kinds of > opinions to yourself. > I am sorry if others do not agree with me but I think you were wrong > post this "stuff" on our group server Keith. I also believe that if I did > not say something about it I would be just as wrong as you in my silence. > Now that I have that off my chest I am ready to forgive and forget > incident Keith - but please the next time you feel the need to "spout off" > please think about those of us that see the world as more than just black > and white. > That's my opinion and I guess that you are all welcome to it. I hope > that it offends no one or that it only offended a few of you. BE WELL!! > REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK > "Live long and prosper" - Spock > ********************************* > * Mark S. Talbot * > * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * > * Sterling Heights, MI. * > * 48312-4604 * > * talbot1@home.com * > ********************************* > ***************************************************** > keithsummers@webtv.net wrote: > > Rocker can play on my team any day. First Klesko then Rocker. I wish > > the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio Veras, Peso > > Borbon or Eddie Peerez. I'd also go to dinner at Rocker's house before > > I'd go to dinner at the house of one the people he mentioned on the 7 > > train. No offense to anyone on the list but I understand exactly what > > Rocker meant & he is one of my top 3 fav current players "now"! This > > is my dream current line up: > > C-Kendall > > C-Fick > > 1B-Bagwell > > 1B-Klesko > > 2B-Kent > > SS-Chipper > > 3B-Matt Williams/Glaus > > OF-Drew > > OF-Bonds > > OF-Brian Giles > > OF-Eric Davis > > OF-Everett > > OF-Ricky > > OF-Floyd > > OF-Andrew Jones > > DH-Canseco > > P-Benson > > P-Clemens > > P-Woods > > P-Randy J. > > P-Rocker > > P-Hoffman > > P-Todd Jones > > P-Koch > > Minors > > -------- > > Adam Dunn > > Rick Elder > > Marlon Byrd > > ------------------ > > Note: I need some lefty SPs & some middlemen. These are not the best > > guys in MLB, but my favs. I'd pull a Charlie Finley & bring in a pinch > > runner specialist named Kevin Little (undoubtedly the World's Fastest > > White Man ever, with apologies to Don Bebee, Tim Dwight, Bobby Morrow, > > Brett Butler, Biggio & McCafferty). This guy won the World Indoor > > Championship in the 200 meter dash a few yrs back. Know of any other > > real fast white guys? Like I said, no offense to anyone but I prefer > > to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like Canseco, > > Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Hideous > > Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some of > > you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me. I'll > > trade you all the Albie Lopez cards I have for Rocker! > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:45:01 EST Subject: What do cleaning products and rookie cards have in common? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com I don't know either.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1050465807 Happy Holidays! ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:52:28 EST Subject: Fwd: Time to step up. To: keithsummers@webtv.net From: tply@aol.com Keith - I wanted you to know I sent this message to the AC. No need to reply my message is very clear. Rick Ellison ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:23:27 -0500 From: "John Collins" Keith - Wow. Wake up buddy. Sorry your thoughts couldn't have a more 21stcentury vibe to them...or 20th century for that matter. I'm sorry you like to collect mostly white players. I like to collect mostly GOOD players...and mediocre players, and poor players, since this is OBC and everybody is admired, both collectors and players alike, for all of their qualities. Sorry you won't be doing much more trading. But if you wouldn't mind, please send me any Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, Ernie Banks, or Roberto Clemente cards you may have accumulated. The list is much longer, but I don't have all day. From your comments, it seems obvious that you won't miss them. -- John ----- Original Message ----- From: tply@aol.com To: keithsummers@webtv.net ; TraderDoug@aol.com Cc: Malsman250@cs.com ; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team Keith - I guess you need to take me off your mailing list as I prefer notto hear from you again on any subject. I am well known in this group as a Joe Morgan fan and oh by the way he is black. It would probably be best for all if you found another group that fits you better. OBC is not and never will endorse John Rocker's racist attitude and I am comfortable saying that since I have met many of the members over the last 10+ years. It is to bad I had to return from Washington, DC after a long and hard detail only to be confronted with your racist email. While I was in Washington, DC doing my part to protect this country from terrorist from the likes of Afghanistan (one of the worst human rights offenders in the world, ask any woman) you thought to dampen the Holidays with a disgusting "Ramblings"! No need to respond to this message, just go away. Another Baseball Quote: "I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me....All I ask is that you respect me as a human being." --------Jackie Robinson Tripleplay (Rick) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:03:17 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi gang, Yes, I too am dismayed and disappointed by Keith's comments. He certainly is entitled to his opinion, but I do not want it foisted on me. Wish he'd have kept them to himself. I don't even know what prompted it; you can like Rocker as a player and that's fine. I personally think Rocker's beliefs and statements are narrow-minded and terribly racist. I was attending a debate seminar once at the University of Georgia, in 1974. I was on the bus riding across campus with two other guys, one from Georgia and one from Florida. The Florida guy made some kind of racist quip, and the guy from Georgia sort of lowered his head, shook it and said, "I thought that kind of thinking ended with my granddaddy." I was ashamed for the Florida guy. And I am ashamed that this country is still subjected to that kind of opinion. We haven't progressed much, I guess, and that is a shame. And let me blunt this point before it is raised: if you like to collect players on cards issued before 1947, that does not make you racist; those were the only cards offered. Wouldn't it have been cool if there were cards issued in the 1930s and '40s of Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, etc.? Anyway, I am hopeful Keith will respond to the ramblings group. He is entitled to his opinion, but I am entitled to mine -- I think his comments were awful. This is the season of giving and brotherhood (and sisterhood); this club has shown time and again its propensity for giving. And I think our camaraderie has been demonstrated many times over. This whole thing just makes me sad and angry. ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:19:24 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Maxwell dilemma. From: Originaleek@webtv.net Back to what we are all about! Thanks to all who provided such wise counsel in my hour of consternation. As suspected, the consensus is to utilize dupes for my Charlie Maxwell HOM tribute binder. Now, this is good news for us all. First, it affords me the opportunity to add a few cards to my wantlists which have been decimated lately and are in danger of extinction. Second, it gives everyone a greater opportunity to contribute to the Charlie Maxwell Hall of Mediocrity. Everybody wins! For this post only I have attached a revised edition of Smokey's HOM Page for your perusal. Thanks again for your wise counsel. We keep what we give away! http://community.webtv.net/OriginalEEK/CHARLIEMAXWELLHOM ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:30:22 EST Subject: Hey Keith--- i will still trade with you To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com i have a dup of a Cap Anson reprint card if you want it- Linda ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:55:40 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team To: talbot1@home.com, keithsummers@webtv.net From: jdelott@aol.com Before any further lambasting, has anyone determined if this was sarcasm? ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:00:16 EST Subject: Re: Keith's comments To: talbot1@home.com, keithsummers@webtv.net From: mikesportsfan@aol.com I too would hope that we are all color/religion/ehtnic blind. The reality is most of us are not, whether we like to admit it or not. As a member of a religious minority, I am Jewish, I have unfortunately on occasion faced discrimination, recrimination and hatred. I was shocked shortly after joining OBC in June 2000, while talking on the phone to an OBCer to hear him make what I felt was an anti-Semitic remark. The remark was, "You should see some of the OBCers negotiate at shows, they try and JEW the dealer down on the price." I was quite hurt and hoped it was from ignorance that the remark was made. I have subsequently met this OBCer in person and do not believe the comment reflects the person's feelings about Jews. I have continued to trade with the person on multiple occasions. I hope Keith reconsiders his viewpoint after these very pointed responses from many members of the group. Keith, live and let live. You are entitled to your views, but I am happy to way I do not share them and hope you will learn from this. FYI, my HOM is Willie Horton, in part because of his help in healing the city of Detroit in 1968, the year after the 1967 riots. And to the non-Jewish, but Christian member's of OBC Merry Christmas and Happy (and safe) Holidays! Mike Rich ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:20:04 -0500 (EST) To: jdelott@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team From: Originaleek@webtv.net Read it again! It's inappropriate and indefensible! ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:21:49 EST Subject: vacation To: Smartalecx@aol.com From: smartalecx@aol.com i will be gone until thursday, 12/27, so for all of you who are just dying to tell me about all the cards you have for me, i am afraid it will have to wait. i wish you all the happiest of holidays, and the gift of respect for all of our fellow man. gary mandell ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:24:43 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team To: nthomas@pol.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Ok a few words from a NYer... I actually deleted the message, thinking is was a joke or just ..whatever it was. When Rocker made the statements here, I was pissed at him, but I still would have taken his arm on the Mets. Yeah, he did say some stuff that some people would like to say, but have the smarts not to. The real problem is that he spoke about MY town. As was stated before, I've never met many of you (some I have) and the last image I get of anyone is their race, color etc. The closest I come to differentiating color is calling "shades" in a game of flipping cards. Rocker just doesn't get it. Killer is, take a look at this group over the years.... we have covered just about every facet of what America and especially NEW YORK is all about-- a great big melting pot. Without those variations in the group, I'm sure I would not be as well rounded a person as I am today (not to mention, I'd lose some really good trading partners- hence my collection would suffer). Sometimes crap happens in this city. Then again, we boast 8 million in NYC alone, another few mil on Long Island. You know when 9/11 happened, people around here actually forgot about the racial differences. We became NEW YORKERS... Sure we are different-- -color, race, religion, but when the chips are down, there is NO other group of people I'd rather share real estate with. NY,NY a helluva town. Oh, BTW, we have one of the lowest crime rates in the country now. Anyone wishing to come here, I'll get you a ride on the # 7 to Shea, a ride on the LIRR to Madison Square Garden, a bus ride up town to some of our famous museums... Rocker was OFF his rocker. I don't think anyone in this group would turn down a Jackie Robinson card . I really hope that the comments were misconstrued, a joke, something. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", but somehow I feel a sadness here. OBC has always stood for the things that are right and good, reaching out to others in need no matter who or what they are. We've had our differences of opinion, but this just made me uneasy. My dream team is made up of ballplayers (ok I do slant towards the Mets, don't crucify me for that :)). My memories are of guys like Luis Aparicio, Freddie Patek, Bud Harrelson, Maury Wills, Don Kessinger (yeah I know, vertically challenged shortstops like me). I've mediated some wild differences when I was one of the orginal AC guys way back when, but nothing like this... I will leave a solution in the able hands of our governing body. Geez, I never thought I would have to write a ramble like this in OBC .... Sal - The Italian New Yorker ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Would you like a Christmas gift from a cheapskate? Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 20:03:21 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" I meant to send out lots of cards so they'd arrive before Christmas but didnot. Feeling guilty. As an alternative, I offer to type up (or mail out) the checklist for any player that appears in the Alphabetic checklist book that I picked up a couple of weeks ago. I already know I need to makeone up for Charley Maxwell, Don Zimmer and Roy McMillan. Any one else? I don't have a flatbed scanner so either I'll type the list up or I'll goto Kinko's and copy it. Hope everyone has a great holiday. ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:53:20 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: My 2 cents worth From: "bobs7714" Good people of OBC: At first I thought Keith`s comments were an attempt at a twisted form of sarcasm. After seeing all the replies I now see the unfortunate reality of them. I origionally wanted to choose Vada Pinson as my HOM`er but he was already taken so I took Roy McMillan. Being from the Cincinnati area I grew up watching Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, Lee Maye, and Roy. They were ballplayers not profiled by race or nationality. Especially after 9/11 we are all Americans! Good grief Charlie Brown!!!!!!!!!! Happy Holidays to all! Bob Schaub ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: my 2 cents Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 02:17:19 From: "jeff sinclair" hey guys, by the way no offense to linda with my habitual greeting. i suppose i could start with hey guys and a gal but how many of our spouses read this too? then it could be hey guys and gals i guess. or hey white guys only maybe. with all the cardboard flying around lately mixed with wishes for happy holidays i too was a bit dismayed by keith's comments. do we not live in a world where people of any color or race are judged by their performance as human beings? i'm sure that the players on keith's dream team would gladly have their names removed from his list if they knew his viewpoints. i'm also wondering what sport or team keith watches that is filled with white guys only? maybe he turns off his set when griffey, bonds, or gonzalez steps to the plate. i guess i'm really in disbelief that a sports fan of any kind would make such a comment. the rumor in pittsburgh is that the pirates were the other team considering adding rocker to their roster. we discussed that at work only yesterday and the consensus was that a move of that nature would have been disasterous to our beloved franchise. one of ownerships goals with the new park was to increase the number of minority fans who come to the ballpark and signing rocker would have been a baaaaad move. when rocker made those comments people sort of wrote them off as coming from a person who quite simply is a jerk, but i think any team signing him will be reminded by their fans as to his comments and that today those words just aren't acceptable. as fans, as collectors, and as human beings, we should be unaccepting of these remarks being made by one of our own. i don't know any of you guys but i've come to feel like some of you are truly FRIENDS! wouldn't it just be terrible to run into a member of this group at a show and have them say.... oh, i thought you were white?? i know my 2 cents was more like a dime but being a fan and a father and a good person who judges others by what they DO!!! i needed to vent.. jeff sinclair I used to sit on the candy store steps with my friend Louis and i never noticed that we were different.. Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:18:31 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team From: Neal Thomas I thought of that at first (that it might have been a joke), but then I remembered on OBC poll a few months ago, about favorite teams and ballplayers, etc, and there were some pretty offensive choices there as well. But I wasn't smart enough to figure out who set up the poll, so I just ignored it. Can anyone figure out who set up those polls? It might be enlightening to see? ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: jdelott@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team Date: 12/21/2001 06:55pm Before any further lambasting, has anyone determined if this was ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:48:35 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1976 Hostess Question From: Neal Thomas Hi all- Quick question: I have some 1976 Hostess cards, and some of the cards have the backs written in black ink, and some have brown ink. I have some dupes where one is black and the other is brown. Any ideas on this? SCD doesn't list any back variations? ================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:15:32 -0600 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Input requested! From: Rick & Deb Earl...well I guess you've been straightened out! No more dilemma, huh? Player-collecting is cool...and dupes are not only legal, but required. All the reasons have been explained by the experts. Of course, you can take it further than "dupes" and go for "all-I-can-get" of key/favorite cards. Mark Talbot mentioned the 1964 Topps Giant Johnny...I have over 700. I also have several 9-card pages of the '59 Johnny RC, the '63 Fleer Johnny, and other favorite issues listed as "all-I-can-get" on my Callison wantlist. By the way, tomorrow (12/22) we leave for vacation to "The Land of Callison", and the Johnny Binder (merely a portion of the collection here at The KPPh) will make the trip. We'll be at Johnny's house on the 28th where the contents of the Binder will be offered for Callison-approval/perusal. I just have to watch out for his 3 daughters so they don't kick my ass and take my stuff! We'll be in Bethlehem, PA from Christmas Eve thru New Year's Day. We hope to visit The Grizzled One on the 28th. If any of you other PA-OBCers want to get together, I'd love it! I'll have my cell phone 316-648-1064. I'll be late with my OBC Christmas Thanks (..I got it, Bob). Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everybody!! Thanx...Rick Svetecz...The Biggest Phillies Fan in Kansas ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Offense Taken Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:59:00 -0600 From: "George Vrechek" Bad idea. ================= To: Subject: Give Him A Break Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 00:28:22 -0500 From: "galtemos" Before we take Keith Summers out and hang him from the highest tree, I would like to make a few observations. When the Yankees had Tony Lazzeri, Frank Crosetti and Joe DiMaggio, this was widely hailed as a wonderful thing, because it instilled great pride in the Italian population of New York. When Roberto Clemente played for the Pittsburgh Pirates, he was praised for his Puerto Rican identity, and because he was a great "role model" for Puerto Ricans. When Hank Greenberg played for the Tigers and Sandy Koufax pitched for the Dodgers, they attracted the interest of many Jews who previously had no interest whatsoever in baseball. Everyone thought this was marvelous…………and why not? In fact, there have been books written about Jews in sports, which many people find very interesting. When any Japanese ballplayer shows any significant success in the United States, his games are telecast back to Japan, and he becomes a national hero. Ichiro is the latest, but not the first, example of this. On the other hand, the Japanese league does not allow any team to have more than two American players on any team. (Can you imagine the outcry if American teams had similar restrictions?) There is no question that Japanese fans love their own players, and only grudgingly tolerate members of other But these things are only baseball. What about real life? My daughter's school recently celebrated "Black History Month." Among other things, they were told about the famous black scientist who invented the electric light bulb (and YOU probably thought it was Thomas Edison………) Jesse Jackson, who has literally never had a single good thing to say about America, has told us that there is no such thing as black racism………….blacks are not CAPABLE of racism. Black kids, Puerto Rican kids, "native American" kids, Hispanic kids, Pakistani kids, Middle Eastern kids, Japanese kids, Chinese kids……….all of these are taught to have pride in their own races, to emphasize the accomplishments of respected members of their own races, and to have role models of their own races. And, in American society, this is not considered "racist"…….it is considered necessary for healthy self-esteem and building character. What about collecting baseball cards? Some of us collect sets by years. Some of us collect favorite teams. Some of us collect "type cards." Some of us collect certain players. I would not be surprised if some of us collect Jewish players, or players who went to Notre Dame, or players from Kansas. So what? Who cares? It is all for fun, and we collect whatever we like. Now let us see what offense Keith Summers has committed. To the best of my knowledge, this is it: He wrote………. "I prefer to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Hideous Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some of you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me." If Keith happened to be Japanese, and said that he likes to watch and collect mainly Japanese players, there would have been no complaints, in my opinion. This would also be true if he were black, or Puerto Rican, or Hispanic, or any other race or religion………….with the exception of the race of which he happens to be a member. We have this amazing double standard in America, and this incredible fear of being branded with the dreaded "R word"…………racism!!! What did Keith do? Did he suggest that blacks should be banned from baseball? No. Did he suggest they should make less money? No. Did he suggest they should be forced to drink Gatorade out of separate cups? No. He said he prefers to watch and collect mainly white players (I presume Keith is white). Did he suggest what YOU should collect? No. This is America. Our Constitution and laws guarantee that every citizen has equal rights and equal opportunities. It does not require that we all love each other equally. If Keith Summers wants to collect cards of white players, or tall players, or short players, because he happens to be white, or tall, or short, and likes to identify with them, who am I to complain? Now, if he short-changes someone in a trade, that is a different matter entirely. But I have never heard that he did that. Give me a break. And give Keith a break, as well. ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:51:24 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com Hey all, If you are Keith Summers' secret Santa send him what he deserves... a lump of I attended high school in Colorado Springs at a school that probably had equal white and black populations. Some of my most memorable times in my life have to do with playing on teams with people of other colors and religions and pulling together on the court as well as in our social lives away from athletics. I attended a small college in Florida and was immediately exposed to quite a bit of racism. When our college track team traveled to meets, there were restaurants that would not serve the black members of our team. There were churches that would not let blacks into their house of worship. This was in the early 70s and I thought that we would have come a long way in the last 30 years, but it's comments like Keith's that turns my stomach. I have been a member of OBC for 7 years. While I am not the most active member (except for a weekend in May) I served two terms on the OBCAC. We had some ups and downs and made some decisions along the way. This situation certainly calls for action from the current AC, and I would hope that actions is taken quickly so we can get on with our lives, sans the racist remarks. Rest well, ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 02:18:20 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Give Him A Break To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com << a message dated 12/21/2001 10:24:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, galtemos@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: << Now let us see what offense Keith Summers has committed. To the best of knowledge, this is it: He wrote=85=85=85. "I prefer to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like Canseco, Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some of you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me." >> He also wrote : (emphasis mine) As you see I do like Canseco,Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Hideous Nomo & Ichiro, I wish the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio Veras, Borbon or Eddie Peerez. Yeah George, let's give him a break, a permanent break from OBC ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 08:44:46 EST Subject: Controversy To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: malsman250@cs.com Anybody up for a "cooling off" period until after Christmas? Just a thought........ ================= To: "OBCTHANKS" , Subject: COMPLETED (almost) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:48:45 -0600 From: "David Kolenda" A welcome e-mail arrived today. Bob Schaub says the hunt is over. Due to arrive in Chicago land is the 1963 # 324. This fills a very big hole. It not only completes the 63 set, it completes a run of topps sets from 1952to 1980 +. At one time I thought this was the impossible dream. Over thelast few years I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. 6 months ago when only a couple of dozen cards were needed with no real big ones, I knew the day was near. I need to thank all current and former members for making this possible. The road has been rather smooth. I started to collect in 1990, mainly because my son had taken an interest (short lived interest) in collecting. He wanted to set up at a show and sell some cards. I went along as a 14 year old has no way to get to and from a show. The following week I went to an estate auction and there was some baseball cards for sale. I bought a few lots, hoping I had made a good deal. Don't remember all that I bought, but afew that stand out are 54 topps #1 Williams nrmt for $30.00. A 56 checklist nrmt for $10.00. A pile of 56's was bought and I was hooked. Starteddoing shows myself, there had to be 10 a week to choose from around my area. Would buy packs, boxes, open them and sell off the hot stuff. IT was all hot back then. Get an easy $15.00 for a 91 stadium Plantier. Today youcan't get 5 cents for that card. A small sign that said BUYING brought a mass amount of cards to be looked at. More old stuff than you could shake a stick at. The early 90's boom in the new cards brought people out looking to basically dump old stuff that they had. late 92 and 93 saw a slow down in the card shows. Everything I had got put aside, soon to be forgotten.One day in 1995 while suffing the net, I came across the OBC site. Thinkthere was about 60 members at that time. A few e-mails and some guidance and suggestion from Trips I decided to give OBC a try. >From that day on it's been uphill. I've meet a number of members in person. There are many more to meet, some are now ex members but are high on the list of people I would like to meet someday. While the run of topps may be near completion,the run of new friends is only starting. Happy Holidays To All, It's on to working on the remaining Bowman and Pots David Kolenda I GOT UM, YOU NEED UM, YOU GET UM ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 08:58:43 EST Subject: Rocker, Summers, and Racism To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: WMDpks@aol.com As an implicit Atlanta Braves fan ("The enemy of my enemy is my friend") I had something of a unique perspective on John Rocker's comments: he couldn't possibly have been serious. Here was an overenthusiastic, wild but occasionally deadly effective, hyperemotional relief pitcher who suddenly felt the need to adopt a WWF-like "cartoon character" exaggerated media persona (i.e. Al Hrabosky?) of the bad guy in order to establish a rivalry with the Yankees and Mets that wasn't necessary to do, because enough of a rivalry already existed. So, he tried to make what he thought was a funny joke about the different races in New York (not the pennant races) and it completely blew up in his face. His awkward, forced apologies were foolish and offensive because obviously he was too embarrassed to admit his joke attempt utterly failed, so he deserved the heap of trouble he found himself in. As it played out, of course, it quickly became obvious this was no joke attempt. Rocker was racist to the core. If anything good came of the situation, it was to illustrate the destructive and divisive nature of such prejudices to a nation of baseball fans as well as to non-fan citizens. I have read the original note from Keith Summers, as well as each of the followup comments. (I am convinced that Rick Ellison and I are telepathically connected; when he hurts, I hurt.) I have my own position on the matter, which is irrelevant for now, and I'd like to make it clear that as chairman of OBCAC I have no vote, and no right to influence any decision (though I often violate the second rule). But as wrong as I was about Rocker, I'd like to believe that the original note was written by Keith in a failed attempt at humor, and that Keith isn't as racist as his note made him out to be. In a perfect situation, I would want a Christmas present: on or before December 25, I'd like to hear from Keith (responding to the whole group) with an explanation and/or apology (preferably both). And if Santa can't bring me that present, I'd like to extend it about a week, to New Year's Eve, figuring Keith may be too busy over the holidays to compose a proper follow-up note. If that time limit expires, I'll use my one vote as a regular OBC member to stand up and say that auld lang syne should NOT be forgot, and the distasteful prejudice of pure racism should ALWAYS be brought to mind, making a New Year's resolution to exclude people like that from one of the last few bastions of pure childhood joy we have. All the best for the holidays, Wayne, Kelly, Joe, and Lisa Delia Wayne M. Delia, WMDpks@aol.com Grand Delta, North Atlantic Region, Phi Kappa Sigma International Fraternity "To do what ought to be done, but would not be done unless I did it, I thought to be my duty." (Robert Morrison, 1849) ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 09:04:28 -0500 (EST) To: topgolf@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Give Him A Break From: Josephine Sue Young I think Mike pointed out what was truly offensive in Keith's ramble. Initially, I was bothered the "collect mainly white players" comment, but that comment is not nearly as offensive as the comment regarding Eddie Perez, Javy Lopez and Pedro Borbon. If Keith wants to collect white players, he is justified in doing so. He can collect whatever he wants to collect without judgement from me. However, he cannot mock 2 fine ball players and Quilvio Veres just because they are hispanic. I think there probably has been a touch of racism in some of Keith's posts before that we've all chosen to give him the benefit of the doubt on. There is no ambiguity in this post however. On Sat, 22 Dec 2001 topgolf@aol.com wrote: > << a message dated 12/21/2001 10:24:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, > galtemos@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: > << Now let us see what offense Keith Summers has committed. To the bestof > my > knowledge, this is it: He wrote=85=85=85. > "I prefer to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like > Canseco, Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like > Hideous > Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some of > you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me." >> > He also wrote : > (emphasis mine) > As you see I do like Canseco,Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids > in Japan like Hideous Nomo & Ichiro, > I wish the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio Veras, > Peso > Borbon or Eddie Peerez. > Yeah George, let's give him a break, a permanent break from OBC > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 14:38:24 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team From: "rbhankins" If you will forgive the new guy for chiming in, I'd like to echo Neal's and Mark's statements simply to ensure that silence is not construed as agreement with the original post. As much as I love collecting cards, I can't allow myself to be a part of any organization that marginalizes people because of the color of thier skin. People are entitled to hold whatever views they want, but there is nothing wrong with placing limits on thier expression, especially where others might take the one person's views as reflective of the entire group. I'm proud to be a part of OBC. --- In OBC-Ramblings@y..., Neal Thomas wrote: > All- > I have a feeling that this is going to become the first "big issue" > since I joined OBC almost two years ago, and it rightfully deserves > to be so. > But an interesting thought I had--aside from the dozen or so > I have met, I have no idea is any of you are white, black, yellow, > green, or orange, and it shouldn't matter in the least! I was > and am raising my kids, that ANY type of prejudice and bigotry is > absolutely wrong--no arguments, no questions--just plain wrong!. > I feel so strongly about this that I will not hesitate to tell my > opinions on racism to anyone and at any time. > I've lived in the rural northeast, the inner city of Philadelphia, > the outskirts of Pittsburgh, and the deep south of South Carolina, > and nowhere in this country (or world) should words or actions be > taken against anyone because of their race, or religion. It is > makes this country great. > OK, off my soapbox. But like Mark, I couldn't stay quiet about > issue. > Neal > ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- > Originally From: Mark S Talbot > Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Rocker/my 2002 MLB dream team > Date: 12/21/2001 04:07pm > Well Keith, > I considered simply deleting this garbage and not acknowledging > it with > a reply but I just couldn't. To even make the insinuation that you > relate > to people based upon the color of their skin or their cultural > heritage is > bigoted, prejudicial and just plain ignorant. Keith - you have a > right to > your opinion - but if it is going to be as offensive as those > opinions held > by John Rocker and other less than educated folks could you please > consider > sharing it in another forum. I personally found your comments > distasteful, > upsetting and inappropriate for an OBC ramble. I don't want to > an > enemy of you but I would ask you to kindly consider keeping these > kinds of > opinions to yourself. > I am sorry if others do not agree with me but I think you were > wrong to > post this "stuff" on our group server Keith. I also believe that > I did > not say something about it I would be just as wrong as you in my > silence. > Now that I have that off my chest I am ready to forgive and > forget this > incident Keith - but please the next time you feel the need to "spout > off" > please think about those of us that see the world as more than just > black > and white. > That's my opinion and I guess that you are all welcome to it. > hope > that it offends no one or that it only offended a few of you. BE > WELL!! > REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK > "Live long and prosper" - Spock > ********************************* > * Mark S. Talbot * > * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * > * Sterling Heights, MI. * > * 48312-4604 * > * talbot1@h... * > ********************************* > ***************************************************** > keithsummers@w... wrote: > > Rocker can play on my team any day. First Klesko then Rocker. I > wish > > the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio > Peso > > Borbon or Eddie Peerez. I'd also go to dinner at Rocker's house > before > > I'd go to dinner at the house of one the people he mentioned on > 7 > > train. No offense to anyone on the list but I understand > what > > Rocker meant & he is one of my top 3 fav current players "now"! > This > > is my dream current line up: > > C-Kendall > > C-Fick > > 1B-Bagwell > > 1B-Klesko > > 2B-Kent > > SS-Chipper > > 3B-Matt Williams/Glaus > > OF-Drew > > OF-Bonds > > OF-Brian Giles > > OF-Eric Davis > > OF-Everett > > OF-Ricky > > OF-Floyd > > OF-Andrew Jones > > DH-Canseco > > P-Benson > > P-Clemens > > P-Woods > > P-Randy J. > > P-Rocker > > P-Hoffman > > P-Todd Jones > > P-Koch > > Minors > > -------- > > Adam Dunn > > Rick Elder > > Marlon Byrd > > ------------------ > > Note: I need some lefty SPs & some middlemen. These are not > best > > guys in MLB, but my favs. I'd pull a Charlie Finley & bring in a > pinch > > runner specialist named Kevin Little (undoubtedly the World's > Fastest > > White Man ever, with apologies to Don Bebee, Tim Dwight, Bobby > Morrow, > > Brett Butler, Biggio & McCafferty). This guy won the World > > Championship in the 200 meter dash a few yrs back. Know of any > other > > real fast white guys? Like I said, no offense to anyone but I > prefer > > to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like > Canseco, > > Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like > > Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know > of > > you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me. > I'll > > trade you all the Albie Lopez cards I have for Rocker! > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------- > -> > Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! > Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! > Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@y... > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 09:59:09 EST Subject: need card description help To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com On the other thing, I echo Neal Thomas. I just bought a W521 Ruth on Ebay. W521s are mirror images of W519s Numbered. I know mine is a W521 because Mark Macrae compared its scan to the W519 Unnumbered Ruth he has and they're opposite. My Ruth is at http://members.aol.com/amcook93/wruth.jpg My question: I want to come up with a few word that describes this card so that if someone bought a W519 or W521 Ruth and read this description they would know, without comparing it to a W519 Unnumbered, which one they had. What's magic about W519 unnumbered is they are identical to W519 numbered so they're an instant check on which one you have. But if you don't have an unnumberd one handy for comparison.... About the only readily identifiable thing is how the shirt folds and is buttoned. Please submit your descriptions. The winning description will get a prize selected especially for you. Actually, all participants will get prizes. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: The world's worst baseball card Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 09:31:59 -0600 From: "George Vrechek" I have aquired what I belive to be the baseball card in the worst conditionin the world...and it is not even bent, written on or cut! I was playing touch football in Chicago last Sunday in the rain and looked down into the mud on the field we play on which is a school playground as well. Sometimes I find quarters and dimes but this time it was a real find...a 1989 Luis Rivera card. I wish my scanner worked so I could share it. It is good to know not all kids collecting today are condition sensistive. I think I will send it along in the next package I send out. If you get it,pass it on. I'm sure it will not be difficult for you to part with it. At least I've kept my record straight of never throwing out a baseball card. ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] need card description help Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:50:03 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Andy -- Did you ever see "Spinal Tap?" If so you could say a W521 "Is like a W519 man, except when you need that extra boost, it goes to W521 man..." OK, feeble attempt at humor... Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 6:59 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] need card description help > On the other thing, I echo Neal Thomas. > I just bought a W521 Ruth on Ebay. W521s are mirror images of W519s > Numbered. I know mine is a W521 because Mark Macrae compared its scan to > W519 Unnumbered Ruth he has and they're opposite. > My Ruth is at http://members.aol.com/amcook93/wruth.jpg > My question: > I want to come up with a few word that describes this card so that if > bought a W519 or W521 Ruth and read this description they would know, > comparing it to a W519 Unnumbered, which one they had. What's magic about > W519 unnumbered is they are identical to W519 numbered so they're an > check on which one you have. But if you don't have an unnumberd one handy > for comparison.... About the only readily identifiable thing is how the > folds and is buttoned. Please submit your descriptions. The winning > description will get a prize selected especially for you. Actually, all > participants will get prizes. > Thanks, > Andy > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 11:07:29 EST Subject: On the road... To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com From: XTrJmx@aol.com Hi all... Just a quick note to let you know I'm on the road until Jan 5. I'll have e-mail access in again in a couple days, as our family will be arriving in Maryland to spend the holidays with our inlaws (and especially looking forward to meeting with Steve R., Howard, and any others that may want to get together!). I'm *way* behind in thanks and even in opening mail, but I'm bringing a big box to sort through on vacation. I certainly hope to catch up and become more active (and responsible) in the New Year. Thanks a bunch for your patience and for being a great group of traders! Happy holidays to all... ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:05:48 EST Subject: Idiot awards To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: HMorgan707@aol.com - Idiot Awards #1 OBC: for letting this free for all to occur and continue! (Merry x-mas to all, including Keith.) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Idiot # 2 > Seems that a year ago, Boeing employees decided to steal a life raft > from > one of the 747s. They were successful getting it out of the plane and > home. > When they took it for a float on the river, a Coast Guard helicopter > surprised them. It turned out that the chopper was homing in on the > emergency locator beacon which activated when the raft was inflated. > They > are no longer employed at Boeing. Here's your sign guys. Don't get it > wet, > the paint might run. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Idiot # 3 > A true story out of San Francisco: A man, wanting to rob a Bank of > America, > walked into the branch and wrote "this iz a stikkup. Put all your muny > in > this bag." While standing in line, waiting to give his note to the > teller, > he began to worry that someone had seen him write the note and might > call > the police. So he left the Bank of America and crossed the street to > Wells > Fargo. After waiting a few minutes in line, he handed his note to the > Wells > Fargo teller. She read it and, surmising from his spelling errors that > he > wasn't the brightest light in the harbor, told him she couldn't accept > his > note because it was written on a Bank of America deposit slip and he > would > either have to fill out a Wells Fargo deposit slip or go back to Bank of > America. Looking somewhat defeated, the man said "OK" and left. He was > arrested a few minutes later, waiting in line at Bank of America. Don't > bother with this guy's sign. He probably couldn't read it anyway. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Idiot # 4 > A motorist was unknowingly caught in an automated speed trap that > measured > his speed using radar and photographed his car. He later received in the > mail a ticket for $40 and a photo of his car. Instead of payment, he > sent > the police department a photograph of $40. Several days later, he > received a > letter from the police with another picture, this time of handcuffs. He > immediately mailed in his $40. Another sign (though this guy might be > onto > something worth thinking about)! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Idiot # 5 > Guy walked into a little corner store with a shotgun and demanded all > the > cash from the cash drawer. After the cashier put the cash in a bag, the > robber saw a bottle of scotch that he wanted behind the counter on the > shelf. He told the cashier to put it in the bag as well, but he refused > and > said, "Because I don't believe you are over 21." The robber said he was, > but > the clerk still refused to give it to him because he didn't believe him. > At > this point the robber took his driver's license out of his wallet and > gave > it to the clerk. The clerk looked it > over, and agreed that the man was in fact over 21 and he put the scotch > in > the bag. The robber then ran from the store with his loot. The cashier > promptly called the police and gave the name and address of the robber > that > he got off the license. They arrested the robber two hours later. (Give > this > guy his!) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Idiot # 6 A pair of Michigan robbers entered a record shop nervously > waving > revolvers. The first one shouted, "Nobody move!" When his partner moved, > the > startled first bandit shot him. (This guy doesn't need a sign, he > probably > figured it out himself.) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Idiot # 7 > Arkansas: Seems this guy wanted some beer pretty badly. He decided that > he'd > just throw a cinder block through a liquor store window, grab some > booze, > and run. So he lifted the cinder block and heaved it over his head at > the > window. The cinder block bounced back and hit the would-be thief on the > head, knocking him unconscious. Seems the liquor store window was made > of > Plexiglas. The whole event was caught on videotape. (Give him his sign!) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Idiot # 8 > Ann Arbor: The Ann Arbor News crime column reported that a man walked > into a > Burger King in Ypsilanti at 12:50 am flashed a gun and demanded cash. > The > clerk turned him down because he said he couldn't open the cash register > without a food order. When the man ordered onion rings, the clerk said > they > weren't available for breakfast. The man, frustrated, walked away. > Idiot # 9 > A medical student doing a rotation in toxicology at the > poison control center. Today, this woman called in very upset because > she > caught her little daughter eating ants. She was quickly reassured that the > ants are not harmful and there would be no need to bring her daughter > into > the hospital. She calmed down, and at the end of the conversation > happened > to mention that she gave her daughter some ant poison to eat in order to > kill the ants. She was told that she better bring her daughter into the > emergency room right away. Here's your sign lady. Wear it with pride. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 14:37:18 -0500 To: galtemos Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Give Him A Break From: Mark S Talbot Your arguement is elequent and filled with factual content. I do not disagree with you that this is America and all of us have certain freedoms that are inalienable. That includes the freedom to think and speak as we choose; I have that right, as do you, as does Rick, Neal, Keith and all of us. Our own OBC forum is in a way a practice of the right of assembly, but isn't it much more than that. There are many actions that I believe speak to the spirit of what attracted me to this group, among them: * Dan Austin's yearly appeal to help the children of St. Louis at X-mas. * The way we "quietly" rally in for divine intecession for our ailing members, as well as former ballplayer who we have never met. * The support we share with members that are having a tough time, wheater it be losing a job, a spouse, a loved one or simply feeling lousey about someone else's misfortune. * The joy that each of you share with me each time you think enough to send me a letter, a puffy or box of something. * The personal conversations that I have had with a number of members either in person, by phone or email as we discuss our lives and loves beyond the realm of our cardboard idols. * The general "good natured" fellowship and camaraderie that we all usually share when we address each other on the group server. George, these are among the things that I treasure about OBC. I choose to stay on my soap box about this because it is my right to demand that OBC be true to itself and not accept comments like Keith made. I will "give him a break" if and when he offers us a public apology and keeps his offensive comments to himself. So Keith, if you even care, now is the time to explain yourself or as Rick suggest - pack up your cardboard and move to another George your arguement is pursuasive indeed but it still does not justify using our forum to spread hateful words. I respectfully disagree with you but appreciate your willingness to share your ideas in a non-offensive manner. Off my soap box for now - and thank you for listening!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * galtemos wrote: > Before we take Keith Summers out and hang him from the highest tree, I > would like to make a few observations. > When the Yankees had Tony Lazzeri, Frank Crosetti and Joe DiMaggio, this > was widely hailed as a wonderful thing, because it instilled great pride in > the Italian population of New York. > When Roberto Clemente played for the Pittsburgh Pirates, he was praised for > his Puerto Rican identity, and because he was a great "role model" for > Puerto Ricans. > When Hank Greenberg played for the Tigers and Sandy Koufax pitched for the > Dodgers, they attracted the interest of many Jews who previously had no > interest whatsoever in baseball. Everyone thought this was > marvelousÖÖÖÖand why not? In fact, there have been books written about > Jews in sports, which many people find very interesting. > When any Japanese ballplayer shows any significant success in the United > States, his games are telecast back to Japan, and he becomes a national > hero. Ichiro is the latest, but not the first, example of this. On the > other hand, the Japanese league does not allow any team to have more than > two American players on any team. (Can you imagine the outcry if American > teams had similar restrictions?) There is no question that Japanese fans > love their own players, and only grudgingly tolerate members of other > races. > But these things are only baseball. What about real life? > My daughter's school recently celebrated "Black History Month." Among > other things, they were told about the famous black scientist who invented > the electric light bulb (and YOU probably thought it was Thomas EdisonÖÖÖ) > Jesse Jackson, who has literally never had a single good thing to say about > America, has told us that there is no such thing as black racismÖÖÖÖ.blacks > are not CAPABLE of racism. > Black kids, Puerto Rican kids, "native American" kids, Hispanic kids, > Pakistani kids, Middle Eastern kids, Japanese kids, Chinese kidsÖÖÖ.all of > these are taught to have pride in their own races, to emphasize the > accomplishments of respected members of their own races, and to have role > models of their own races. And, in American society, this is not > considered "racist"ÖÖ.it is considered necessary for healthy self-esteem > and building character. > What about collecting baseball cards? Some of us collect sets by years. > Some of us collect favorite teams. Some of us collect "type cards." Some > of us collect certain players. I would not be surprised if some of us > collect Jewish players, or players who went to Notre Dame, or players from > Kansas. So what? Who cares? It is all for fun, and we collect whatever > we like. > Now let us see what offense Keith Summers has committed. To the best of my > knowledge, this is it: He wroteÖÖÖ. > "I prefer to watch & collect MAINLY white players. As you see I do like > Canseco, > Walker, Davis & Andrew but just like many kids in Japan like Hideous > Nomo & Ichiro, I prefer players I can identify with. I know some of > you wouldn't hire Rocker for even $1 a year & that's fine by me." > If Keith happened to be Japanese, and said that he likes to watch and > collect mainly Japanese players, there would have been no complaints, in my > opinion. This would also be true if he were black, or Puerto Rican, or > Hispanic, or any other race or religionÖÖÖÖ.with the exception of the race > of which he happens to be a member. > We have this amazing double standard in America, and this incredible fear > of being branded with the dreaded "R word"ÖÖÖÖracism!!! What did Keith do? > Did he suggest that blacks should be banned from baseball? No. Did he > suggest they should make less money? No. Did he suggest they should be > forced to drink Gatorade out of separate cups? No. He said he prefers to > watch and collect mainly white players (I presume Keith is white). Did he > suggest what YOU should collect? No. > This is America. Our Constitution and laws guarantee that every citizen > has equal rights and equal opportunities. It does not require that we all > love each other equally. If Keith Summers wants to collect cards of white > players, or tall players, or short players, because he happens to be white, > or tall, or short, and likes to identify with them, who am I to complain? > Now, if he short-changes someone in a trade, that is a different matter > entirely. But I have never heard that he did that. > Give me a break. And give Keith a break, as well. > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 15:35:15 -0500 To: malsman250@cs.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Controversy From: Mark S Talbot This sound reasonable to me Bill

    Happy Holiday's to all!!!

REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK

"Live long and prosper" - Spock
 *    Mark S. Talbot            
 *    34030 Chatsworth Drive    
 *    Sterling Heights, MI.      48312-4604   *
 *    talbot1@home.com          

malsman250@cs.com wrote:

 Anybody up for a "cooling off" period until after Christmas?

Just a thought........
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================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 16:55:18 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@YahooGroups.com Subject: double standards/OCD/Rocker From: keithsummers@webtv.net Part of it was a joke & an attempt at humor just like when I say SKANKEES instead of YANKEES, DEADS instead of REDS or SEACHICKENS instead of SEAHAWKS. As was mentioned, there's a double standard plus there's those that are quick to jump on the politically correct bandwagon. Reminds me of the saying: HYPOCRITES ARE IN CHURCH EVER SUNDAY. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder has a big role in my views also. Seems many overlooked the fact that if I was a true racist, why would I have BONDS, ANDRUW, EVERETT in my OF & CANSECO as my DH? If a racist judges based on race alone, why would these guys even be on my team? Also the main basketball guy I collect is DALE ELLIS! My all time fav owner is Bill Veeck, who signed Larry Doby the 1st black in the AL, right? Furthermore, even though Ty Cobb was from GA, I don't collect him. I mentioned NO OFFENSE in my message twice (not "many" times as was stated). Neal, in ref to the poll, it was me. But look at my votes. The facts are: I was born in the USA, I'm white, I was a RH pitcher & I was one of few fast white guys in my grade, so my collecting leans towards those things. If I was born in Cuba & said I collect MAINLY Cuban guys because I was born there & relate to them better, nobody would have Rocker is one of my fav players but I don't idolize him. I do feel he had the right to say what he did & there was too much backlash. I didn't use the standard negative slang terms you hear in the movies ("N" word etc).. I'll say it again (but this time without the humor attempt) I wish the Braves had kept Rocker & Klesko & traded away Veras, Perez or Borbon instead. There's nothing wrong with that. I never used the word Latino, Hispanic or any of them except white. Leno's joke a couple days ago about the new McDonalds sandwich & saying throw on a meatball to cover all the ethnic backgrounds probably got less controversy than my comment. As far as the queerio thing, well that was an attempt (feeble?) at humor but the definition of the word technically is: peculiar. BTW, my Uncle is gay & he's one of the nicest most trustful guys in the city. Calling Rocker a jerk is worse than saying someone is peculiar. Maybe I'm offended when you call Rocker a jerk? His Grandma lived 2 doors away from me. I helped her move her furniture when her family members refused. Funny thing is, he played pitch in the front yard with my ex neighbor who was born overseas. The guy is one of the nicest guys around, smart & rich so I don't judge people simply by race but yes I do stereotype some as almost all of you do to a certain Rick, you don't have to worry about hearing from me again as I prefer never to hear from you either. You & a few others sure are quick to judge & you don't even know me. This whole thing has pumped up my stress level which affects my blood sugar, anxiety & makes my OCD even worse. That combined with the regular stress of the holidays, being single & my favorite nephew, Luke, dying is his sleep 3 weeks ago just before his 2nd birthday, I was teary eyed about 2PM today. I feel sorry for his twin Jacob (bible names) that kept pointing at the empty crib until my brother had to take it down. I'm shaking now as I type this. I hope we can drop it now & concentrate on the holidays. If people weren't so concerned about being politically correct, maybe the terrorists would not have been able to come here so easily & train to fly a plane? (just a thought) In closing, I will put anyone who wishes not to be contacted by me directly, on the list with Rick if you desire (just let me know). Some of you commented very politely & intelligently (Wayne, Steve & George A. to name 3 I remember) but others need some work on your skills & not just on the golf course. So now that you have heard my side of the story & even though I sent my $10 in quickly, have traded with several of you & I keep my wantlist updated, kick me out if you like because I don't attend parties where I'm not welcome :-) Well, time for me to pop my Zoloft & Vistaril & try to look happy as I go to my brothers for the annual gift exchange. I promise to watch my comments more closely in the future & apologies to those who didn't get the humor or were offended. Last of all, thanks to Iggy for the 75 Hank Aaron card I requested! Aaron & Stargell are 2 of my all time fav HOFers. Did I mention I was the president of the Ollie Brown fan club ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Is this guy for real? Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:01:31 -0500 From: "James Moleta" The lot I have listed below looks real to me: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1051153932 However, when I looked at his feedback, the only 2 cards he has sold have received neutral & negative feedback, and he also happens to have a 40 PB Joe Jackson & a few Mantle RCs for sale (among other stuff)@ $39.99 minimum bids! Who's our undercover sleuth that exposes potential frauds? The Cobbs look real, but judging by the rest of this stuff, I'm not gonna bid. In case my link doesnt come thru, this guy can be found by searching for seller "sjmcards" Thanks to anyone for feedback, Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:22:54 -0500 (EST) To: James Moleta Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? From: Josephine Sue Young Head up to all here...first to James...psa1 is aka Jeff Sackmann. I know you wouldn't do that intentionally (like some other nameless obc'er who has outbid me about 50 times). I emailed jeff and told him to check his other auctions too. The t206 looks good, but some of his other stuff looks much worse. The 52 topps mantle doesn't look like it would fool Thanks for the heads up James. On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, James Moleta wrote: > The lot I have listed below looks real to me: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1051153932 > However, when I looked at his feedback, the only 2 cards he has sold have > received neutral & negative feedback, and he also happens to have a 40 PB > Joe Jackson & a few Mantle RCs for sale (among other stuff)@ $39.99 minimum > bids! Who's our undercover sleuth that exposes potential frauds? The Cobbs > look real, but judging by the rest of this stuff, I'm not gonna bid. In case > my link doesnt come thru, this guy can be found by searching for seller > "sjmcards" Thanks to anyone for feedback, > James > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:42:38 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? To: james_moleta@hotmail.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com In a message dated 12/22/2001 2:02:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, james_moleta@hotmail.com writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1051153932 one of the easiest ways to judge if something is legit is to ask the dealer how he got it....if he says "i don't remember" "attic find" or "I just bought this huge lot..." then i pass it up... although...looking at his feedback, he does mark things he is not sure about as reprints or copies and the two complaints were definitely marked "sold as a reprint" the e-card is hard to fake since they are harder to find good enough to scan and print. my two cents ================= To: jsyoung@emory.edu Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:57:25 -0500 From: "James Moleta" Mac - I thought "psa1" sounded familiar, but didnt realize it was an OBCer. Thanks for the heads-up - Go Sackmann! As far as the Cobbs go, you and Josh both agree that they look legit, so I guess Jeff can let us know if he remains hi bidder. Thanks for the feedback. >From: Josephine Sue Young >To: James Moleta >CC: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? >Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:22:54 -0500 (EST) >Head up to all here...first to James...psa1 is aka Jeff Sackmann. I know >you wouldn't do that intentionally (like some other nameless obc'er who >has outbid me about 50 times). I emailed jeff and told him to check his >other auctions too. The t206 looks good, but some of his other stuff >looks much worse. The 52 topps mantle doesn't look like it would fool >Thanks for the heads up James. >On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, James Moleta wrote: > > The lot I have listed below looks real to me: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1051153932 > > > > However, when I looked at his feedback, the only 2 cards he has sold > > received neutral & negative feedback, and he also happens to have a 40 > > Joe Jackson & a few Mantle RCs for sale (among other stuff)@ $39.99 > > bids! Who's our undercover sleuth that exposes potential frauds? The > > look real, but judging by the rest of this stuff, I'm not gonna bid. In > > my link doesnt come thru, this guy can be found by searching for seller > > "sjmcards" Thanks to anyone for feedback, > > > > James > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ================= To: "James Moleta" , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 15:32:09 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Mac and others -- I hope I'm not the nameless OBCer who outbids you! I have a bad habit of never looking at the bidder name when I bid. I bid against Spike the other day, thereby running up his price - oops. I need to pay more attention - maybe that will be a good New Year's Resolution. By the way, where is the list of Ebay callsigns? Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Sue Young" To: "James Moleta" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? > Head up to all here...first to James...psa1 is aka Jeff Sackmann. I know > you wouldn't do that intentionally (like some other nameless obc'er who > has outbid me about 50 times). I emailed jeff and told him to check his > other auctions too. The t206 looks good, but some of his other stuff > looks much worse. The 52 topps mantle doesn't look like it would fool > anybody. > Thanks for the heads up James. > Mac > On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, James Moleta wrote: > > The lot I have listed below looks real to me: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1051153932 > > > > However, when I looked at his feedback, the only 2 cards he has sold > > received neutral & negative feedback, and he also happens to have a 40 > > Joe Jackson & a few Mantle RCs for sale (among other stuff)@ $39.99 > > bids! Who's our undercover sleuth that exposes potential frauds? The > > look real, but judging by the rest of this stuff, I'm not gonna bid. In > > my link doesnt come thru, this guy can be found by searching for seller > > "sjmcards" Thanks to anyone for feedback, > > > > James > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 15:34:47 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Fellas -- The best thing about the "legit" Mantle card is how it fits in the card holder!! Maybe the card holder is not legit! Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Sue Young" To: "James Moleta" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Is this guy for real? > Head up to all here...first to James...psa1 is aka Jeff Sackmann. I know > you wouldn't do that intentionally (like some other nameless obc'er who > has outbid me about 50 times). I emailed jeff and told him to check his > other auctions too. The t206 looks good, but some of his other stuff > looks much worse. The 52 topps mantle doesn't look like it would fool > anybody. > Thanks for the heads up James. > Mac > On Sat, 22 Dec 2001, James Moleta wrote: > > The lot I have listed below looks real to me: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1051153932 > > > > However, when I looked at his feedback, the only 2 cards he has sold > > received neutral & negative feedback, and he also happens to have a 40 > > Joe Jackson & a few Mantle RCs for sale (among other stuff)@ $39.99 > > bids! Who's our undercover sleuth that exposes potential frauds? The > > look real, but judging by the rest of this stuff, I'm not gonna bid. In > > my link doesnt come thru, this guy can be found by searching for seller > > "sjmcards" Thanks to anyone for feedback, > > > > James > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 19:26:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] double standards/OCD/Rocker From: Mark S Talbot keithsummers@webtv.net wrote: >I promise to watch my comments more closely in the future & apologies >to those who didn't get the humor or were offended. Good Enough for me!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Santa visits MT Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:45:37 -0700 From: "Todd Knowles" My Santa package from Bob D'Angelo made it safely from sunny Tampa to snowy Great Falls Today. Can't wait til the 25th! Thanks Bob! ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 19:46:28 EST Subject: fair enough To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi Keith, >I promise to watch my comments more closely in the future & apologies to those who didn't get the humor or were offended.> Fair enough. Thanks for giving your side of the story. Perhaps all of us have learned a valuable lesson here. As an editor, I know that sarcasm or humor in person sometimes doesn't translate the same way into print. Words have a way of being harsher that one might want them to be when they are on a piece of paper. I certainly didn't see the humor but appreciate the explanation. You have my deepest sympathies regarding your nephew. Losing a child is awful to begin with, but around the holidays is even worse. Our prayers are with you and your family. Consider it dropped by me. OBC is like family to me, and families will squabble. Disdaining racism (whether perceived or not) is not a question of being politically correct. It is just the way I have always felt. P.S. -- My mother's cousin is gay also, works in Houston as a hairdresser (how's that for a stereotype) and is also a wonderful person. Throws the most entertaining parties this side of Mardi Gras. ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 20:44:24 -0500 Subject: Keith's comments To: OBC Ramblings From: Jimmy Parker Content-type: application/applefile; name="Holiday Wishes.jpg" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: attachment ================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 20:53:59 -0500 (EST) To: OBC Ramblings Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith's comments From: Neal Thomas I'll tell you what's offensive Catfish--that couch you are standing in front of in your Christmad picture--the only reason I know is because we had almost the same exact one when I was a kid, and we still kid my folks about it when we look at old pictures. Like Jimmy, I completely disagree with what Keith said. There is nothing about "political correctness", just respect for all people and decency towards each other. But I am willing to see this as a bad attempt at humor, and drop it in the face of Keith's apology. I hope others feel the same. ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Jimmy Parker Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith's comments Date: 12/22/2001 08:44pm ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: 1980-81 Topps Hockey Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 21:25:19 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" To me 1980-81 Hockey is still "vintage". Hopefully no one considers it "too new" to be discussed in ramblings. Does anyone remember buying these cards from packs? The Topps set comes with a the players name covered up, like a scratch off lottery ticket. I have a big pile of unscratched onesfrom last week at a show. I have a much smaller pile of scratched ones. Should I try to build a "master set" with a full set of scratched and afull set of unscratched? There are also some variations in the set, given to me by Ken. I found the "KM is #1", "Canucks Stink", and "KM is the greatest". Anyone have Bob Lemke's e-mail at SCD so I can let him know about these unlisted variations? ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1970 topps Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 04:17:45 From: "jeff sinclair" hey guys i received a lot of 70 topps i won on ebay today. 500 cards of which i needed 88 so i did okay. now i need to spread em around some. my outgoing mail is piling up and will remain until after Christmas so send me your 70 wantlists. i'll try to get through some lists on my own but...... there are quite a few nosebleeders in my dupe box. i also want to take this time to wish all of you and those you cherish a very safe and joyous holiday. i'm proud to be a member of this group without ever having personally met any of you. i can feel it in many of the posts i've read over the past six months that we have a lot of special people here. it's a warm feeling every time i see a familiar name on some mail. Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:21:56 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: fair enough From: "rbhankins" --- In OBC-Ramblings@y..., bdangelo@a... wrote: > Hi Keith, > >I promise to watch my comments more closely in the future & apologies to those who didn't get the humor or were offended.> > Fair enough. Thanks for giving your side of the story. Perhaps all of us have learned a valuable lesson here. As an editor, I know that sarcasm or humor in person sometimes doesn't translate the same way into print. Words have a way of being harsher that one might want them to be when they are on a piece of paper. I certainly didn't see the humor but appreciate the explanation. > being single & my favorite nephew, Luke, dying is his sleep 3 weeks ago just before his 2nd birthday ...> > You have my deepest sympathies regarding your nephew. Losing a child is awful to begin with, but around the holidays is even worse. Our prayers are with you and your family. > > Consider it dropped by me. OBC is like family to me, and families will squabble. Disdaining racism (whether perceived or not) is not a question of being politically correct. It is just the way I have always felt. > Bob > P.S. -- My mother's cousin is gay also, works in Houston as a hairdresser (how's that for a stereotype) and is also a wonderful person. Throws the most entertaining parties this side of Mardi Gras. ================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:36:26 -0500 To: chcaco@yahoogroups.com,obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fwd: Cards for Kids Report From: Dan Austin A short report from Dr. Manary on this year's "cards for kids" program, for those who are interested... >Christmas is upon us and so is Cards for Kids at St. Louis Children's >Hospital. This year I have received about 25,000 cards in donation, and >again from a wide range of generous people. More than half of the donors >are not VCT or OCT people. It is wonderful for me to broaden my >prespective beyond vintage baseball collectors. What I do with the cards >is quickly sort through them and pullout special cards and really special >cards. I include a special card and a really special card in each pack of >25 that we give away. Examples of special cards would be Tony Gwynn or >Charles Barclay or Bret Farve. Really special cards would be McGwire or >Shaq or any current Rams. Last weekend my children and I packaged up >11,000 into packs of 25 and Monday we began giving them away. I worked >Monday evening shift, and it wasn't long before I went into an exam room to >find a boy and his dad with about 50 cards spread out all over the bed. >This was a group of baseball minis from the mid 80s, and the players were >placed in a configuration as if they were on a baseball diamond. The dad was >telling the son how special this player and that were at that time. >Wednesday evening a couple of girls saw the cards in a box at the triage >desk. They meekly asked about them, and the EMT at the desk didn't pay >much attention. He was in the habit of offering them to boys. Then Mrs. >Hunt, a 46 veteran of our ER, offered them each a pack. Their faces broke >into a big smile. The girls actually took about 4 packs and offered some >to their sister with an ankle injury. These girls were quite >sophisticated, and began arguing whether Craig Biggio was better than Scott >Rolen. They also brought up the question as to if Kurt Shilling is such a >good pitcher why has he played for so many teams. Friday evening I saw the >same layout of cards on the floor as I did Monday. I guess I remember >doing that as well as a child. The real issue is that the cards gave >several children in St. Louis something other to think about than their >illness/ injury that brought them to the hospital. And for that bit of >Christmas joy the >kids and I thank you. >Mark Manary Dan Austin - dan@iamdanaustin.com Visit me at http://iamdanaustin.com "How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world." - William Shakespeare ================= Subject: OBC quality 60s star lot on eBay Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:05:35 -0500 To: "OBC Ramblings" From: Matthew Glidden Hey guys, Here's a lot I was high bidder on, but was just outbid at $16. There's a 61 Mays in here, as well as a 60 Killebrew, 59 Aparichio AS and 66 Gibson. http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1049472052 OBC: Because every card is "one of one" ================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 20:04:21 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Another Maxwell Update! From: Originaleek@webtv.net Thanks to one Steve Rittenberg I now have an extensive and comprehensive list of Charlie Maxwell cards on his HOM page. As a second time only offer I have added the address below for your perusal should you feel so inclined. Wishing all OBCer's and their families a happy and joyous Holiday no matter which you choose to observe! We keep what we give away! http://community.webtv.net/OriginalEEK/CHARLIEMAXWELLHOM ================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 20:11:33 EST Subject: Results of book poll To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi gang, About a month ago, I posed the question of what three books would you want in your possession if you were stranded on a deserted island. Here are the results, along with first-place votes: Ball Four --- 7 The Boys Of Summer -- 5 Total Baseball -- 5 The Glory of Their Times --- 4 The Baseball Sports Encyclopedia -- 4 The Fireside Book of Baseball ---- 2 The Unforgettable Season -------- 2 The Historical Baseball Abstract -- 2 The 2001 SCD Catalog -------- 2 Hit Em Where They Ain't ---- 2 Summer of '49 ------- 2 Why Time Begins On Opening Day -- 1 The Curse of Rocky Colavito --- 1 If I Never Get Back ----------- 1 It's Anybody's Ball Game ------- 1 Catcher In The Wry -------------- 1 Baseball Hall 0f Shame ----------- 1 Maybe I'll Pitch Forever----------1 My Favorite Summer 1956 ------- 1 The Babe Ruth Story ---------- 1 Babe --------------------- 1 The Amazing Mets ----------- 1 "The Book" (The Great American Card Collecting and Flipping ...) ------ 1 The Long Season --------- 1 The Jackie Robinson Story --- 1 Baseball ----------- 1 Men At Work -------- 1 Sadaharu Oh: A Zen Way of Baseball --- 1 Shoeless Joe ------------ 1 The Celebrant -------- 1 The Iowa Baseball Confederacy --- 1 Cobb --- 1 A Whole Different Ballgame --- 1 Topps Baseball Cards: Tigers ----- 1 Fear Strikes Out ------ 1 As you can see, quite a diverse selection. I think that would make one heck of a library. Thanks to the 21 OBCers who contributed their opinions. ================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:19:33 EST Subject: Keith To: pb1940@banet.net, jharrell001@sprintmail.com, Jocraig@aol.com, From: tply@aol.com All - I am not done with this. If Keith does not leave the group on his own power or be removed I will keep this going as long as it takes to insure he is removed! I have been a member of this group for over 10 years. I was one of the original members and we have always been about caring and sharing. Keith even in his apology was not. It is time for him to go! Another Baseball Quote: "There is no easy place for the old ball player in society." ------Jackie Robinson Tripleplay (Rick) ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 00:19:24 EST Subject: Fwd: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com I have plenty of answers for George, however I felt I needed everyone to see this and have a chance to reply, if you so use. ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 00:46:25 -0500 From: "galtemos" Hi Rick, I asked a very simple question. It does not call for "plenty of answers." I simply asked whether or not you would apply the same standards to other ethnic goups, as well. Or do you have different standards for different > From: tply@aol.com > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Fwd: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith > Date: Monday, December 24, 2001 12:19 AM > I have plenty of answers for George, however I felt I needed everyone to > this and have a chance to reply, if you so use. > Rick > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 02:38:33 -0500 (EST) To: galtemos Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith From: Josephine Sue Young George (and all), In my opinion (and I believe this opinion is shared), it doesn't matter what Keith collects. Keith is white, and he prefers to collect white players...I don't think that makes him a racist. However, lets look at the following comment... " First Klesko then Rocker. I wish the Braves would have kept them both & traded away Queerio Veras, Peso Borbon or Eddie Peerez." To me, this comment means Keith would rather have white players on the Braves team than hispanic players. If he had included some non-hispanic players, I'd probably be writing in defense of Keith. However, I can see no logical grouping of Veras, Borbon and Perez other than grouping them by race. In addition, he is either very ignorant of the proper spelling of names or he is making fun of them. If anybody else has an interpretation of this comment, I would like to hear it. Grouping people by race and making fun of them is pretty much the definition of racism is it not? I think that if we kicked Keith out for collecting white players, we could justly be criticized for bending to political correctness (which might or might not be a good thing). But I don't think that's why we're discussing it. Keith has repeatedly shown an insensitivity to potentially offensive remarks. This latest incident caused 50+ people to respond, virtually all denouncing the remarks of Keith. As a group, I think we are understanding and forgiving. To have that many people respond indicates that Keith crossed one of those lines that ought not to be crossed. If Keith said "I made some dumbass remarks which you will never hear me utter again" in his apology, again the issue would probably be dropped. But instead we got a justification for what he said. When you read Keith's response, I didn't feel as though Keith was asking forgiveness for what he said, but rather he was justifying his actions. I am not satisfied with that. One last quote from Keith's response... So now that you have heard my side of the story & even though I sent my $10 in quickly, have traded with several of you & I keep my wantlist updated, kick me out if you like because I don't attend parties where I'm not welcome :-) One question for you Keith...do you think that sending in your $10, trading with people and keeping your wantlist up to date makes you a good obc'er? If you do, I will join Rick in his pursuit to kick you out of the group. To paraphrase the great Dr. Suess on this Christmas Eve day...perhaps OBC means a little bit more. On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, galtemos wrote: > Hi Rick, > I asked a very simple question. It does not call for "plenty of answers." > I simply asked whether or not you would apply the same standards to other > ethnic goups, as well. Or do you have different standards for different > groups? > George > ---------- > > From: tply@aol.com > > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Fwd: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith > > Date: Monday, December 24, 2001 12:19 AM > > > > I have plenty of answers for George, however I felt I needed everyone to > see > > this and have a chance to reply, if you so use. > > > > Rick > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 09:19:06 -0500 (EST) To: jsyoung@emory.edu (Josephine Sue Young) Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith From: Originaleek@webtv.net Mac & all, I appreciate Mac's comments, they echo my sentiments and what I wanted to say but to date deferred to those who have been around longer. As the debate continues I feel a need to elaborate on my earlier comments. A preference for collecting certain players, regardless of the criteria used, is not at all the issue. The issue is trying to be clever or funny at the expense of others, as the C & W song goes "don't get your pleasure from my pain". What attracted me to this group was the kind and generous nature of those I came in contact with. When I recently became a member and gained access to Thanks, Ramblings, Announcements, etc. and read posts about the charitable nature of the group, I was even more Controversies such as this bring out strong emotion and people say additional things that are hurtful, ie a post inferring that many of us were idiots for airing our positions. Please, let us not allow one individuals insensitivity to divide us. We all have our likes and dislikes, but have a responsibility to avoid knowingly hurting our fellow man/woman. Recently I read a post from a member who was anticipating the anniversary of his daughters death, as painful as that was he dealt with it with dignity and without lashing out at others. I believe Keiths "apology" was more an explanation for his anger and hurt. We all hurt at times, it does not give us the right to ridicule others. Sorry I went on so long. We keep what we give away! ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:13:51 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Controversy From: "klsdad2000" For the good of the entire GROUP (which is after all what this is about right?) ............. ........... this whole thing calls for a 10 day cooling off period so we can all enjoy the holidays. Happy Holidays to all !!! ================= To: Subject: Merry Christmas! Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:42:28 -0600 From: "Randy G. Griffin" Hello All: Wanted to thank everyone in the group for a great year of generosity and good will! From my family to yours: MERRY CHRISTMAS! Thanks, OBC! Randy, Vicki and Kyle Griffin ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Split an ebay lot? Uncle Sam 1941 Gum Inc. War Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:48:07 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" eBay item 1051206242 (Ends Dec-27-01 095603 PST ) - Gee - I can't even think of anyone else who is working on this set. I'd buy it all myself but I just bought a 40 or 50 card starter set. Please getin touch ASAP if interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1051206242 ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Availables (for Tigers Fans) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:22:51 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" I picked up a bunch of cards at the National from the 1981 National Sports Collectors Convention set. This was a set of 32 cards, all pre-1950 Tigers. I have 25 left and its time to move them out!! I'd like to divide them up evenly between everyone who replies. I figure these should go primarily to Tiger fans but if you desperately want one for your type set collection, Here's who's here. Let me know if you have a prefence. Hughie Jennings Heinie Manush George Mullin Donie Bush Bobby Veach Wild Bill Donovan Harry Heilmann Sam Crawford Lu Blue Bob Fothergill Harry Coveleski Dale Alexander Charlie Gehringer Tommy Bridges Det Tigers 1935 World Champions Schoolboy Rowe Mickey Cochrane Gee Walker Marv Owen Barney McCosky Greenberg and Cobb were gone when I bought the set. ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:25:50 EST Subject: Happy Holidays To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com From: kwg0@aol.com To Everybody, Happy Holidays and a prayer from Kent, Harriet, and Kristy Goto. ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:55:53 EST Subject: Merry Christmas To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi gang, A very Merry Christmas and holiday season to all of you!! From the D'Angelo family Bob, Sandra, Stephen, Michael, Matthew, Alex and Haley. ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:38:14 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: It's just a matter of time? From: Originaleek@webtv.net OK all you OBC sages, I need the official word. If your not so secret santa is from some place far away in another time zone, let's say Scotland for instance! When can you legally open your package from them? I figure I have 8 hours (or less) til midnight, but I don't want to assume anything that would preclude my future participation in this marvelous tradition. Just so we have every variable accounted for here are the particulars. My large 12" X 17" package arrived about a half hour after Grant's wife provided us all with our Santa-ee. It sat next to my easy chair for about a year until the tree went up. Since that time it has been propped against Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer whispering my name each time I pass. It makes no noise when you shake it, and even the special light on my granddaughters fairy princes wand will not reveal it's contents. Being the type that can resist everything but temptation, I think I have demonstrated super-natural powers of restraint thus far. If there is a chance that Scotland is even 12 minutes ahead of our time and we utilize the Santa-ers time for opening our packages I need to know. However should Glasgow be behind our time: Never mind! I hope I didn't reveal Glen's identity with this post. Cheers! We keep what we give away! ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:15:23 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: It's just a matter of time? From: "catfishparker" Can't wait to open a present, huh? Just like a child. Which, come to think about it, is what our little group is all Happy Holidays all, Save the gum for me... --- In OBC-Ramblings@y..., Originaleek@w... wrote: > OK all you OBC sages, I need the official word. If your not so > santa is from some place far away in another time zone, let's > Scotland for instance! When can you legally open your package from them? > I figure I have 8 hours (or less) til midnight, but I don't want to > assume anything that would preclude my future participation in > marvelous tradition. > Just so we have every variable accounted for here are the > My large 12" X 17" package arrived about a half hour after Grant's wife > provided us all with our > Santa-ee. It sat next to my easy chair for about a year until the > went up. Since that time it has been propped against Rudolph the Red > Nose Reindeer whispering my name each time I pass. It makes no noise > when you shake it, and even the special light on my granddaughters fairy > princes wand will not > reveal it's contents. Being the type that can resist everything but > temptation, I think I have demonstrated super-natural powers > restraint thus far. If there is a chance that Scotland is even 12 > minutes ahead of our time and we utilize the Santa-ers time for > our packages I need to know. However should Glasgow be behind our time: > Never mind! > I hope I didn't reveal Glen's identity with this post. Cheers! > We keep what we give away! > EEK ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:30:06 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Keith From: "rayluurs" I recently wrote this to Rick but after reading responses felt maybe I should make my stand public too and why I waited so long to do so I am writing this but I am in a quandary on how to handle the situation. (hopefully I can convey this in the message). I am 100% behind OBC in what is said and done about Keith His response showed no remorse nor his reasoning any justification of his actions. However I feel by continuing to put this on the rambling we give him what he wants... a forum with his name out in front. I say this because I used to be a trivia host in grandstand, we then and now get people in there that would do or say outlandish things.......just start a fight with one person and then get the room in an uproar. Once that was accomplished he would have all the attention they wanted for that hour. What happened in my particular room was a sort of shunning. We plain and simply ignored him, he says something no response and in a matter of minutes he leave. He would try several time and when he didnt get a response he soon left room for good. As of now we have only one real trouble maker in the room, he is just like Keith in every way, but the only reason he is in there is his running battle with the main room supervisor who Gags him from the room. It is a running contest to see how long he can be in the room. I dont believe this to be right, that person in the room has violated TOS and should be terminated and I think that should be done with Keith. By continuing to reply to his remarks he gets his forum. Besides he just doesnt understand that we aren't upset with him about his collecting only white ballplayers, or for that matter wanting to get rid of certain players (even though they are all Hispanic) from his favorite team. Heck I am rejoicing that my Twins (if they even play next year) got rid of Hector Carrasco. Not because he is Hispanic, Black or whatever but because he couldn't find the plate with a road map. We are angry because of the slurs and innuendoes he put in their names and I like Mac think his isn't poor at spelling. I think that there should be a vote and quick. Until the mean time put a sanction on him and say dont trade with him. Although I think that may already occurring with most of us but not to give him his forum. I too paid my $10 (not quickly though) but I didnt read anywhere my $10 gave the right to put anything in rambling or my website that were viewed as racist. I dont know if he is or not but by his action I chose to ignore him all together. I hope by doing it this way I am not viewed as someone who avoids confrontation. I have a fourteen year old son who knows everything so confrontations are a daily chore:-). I did it this way to show support of OBC and what I feel it stands for and not give Keith a chance to stand on his soapbox. I feel a majority would agree and the one that doesnt is who we are talking about and doesnt make any difference to him Merry Christmas to you and your family ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:18:46 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Keith To: TPLY@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com I actually collect Jewish players but it does not give me the right to call other players names (Veras, Borbon, etc.)...it also does not allow me to give the appearence that I collect a player because he is promoting jewish only leauges, or believes jews are better than others (which rocker has said and implied often with white people). If a jewish player came out and said all that rocker did, i would burn his cards in a heart beat. ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:42:18 EST Subject: Ohio Seasons Greetings To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: malsman250@cs.com Its Christmas Eve in northern Ohio, but until the last few days the weather has seemed more like spring training. But today, we've seen the first flakes of snow, and it seems like it may really be the holidays. So, since some Christmas spirit is invading my soul at this late date, I wish you happiness and peace. Bill, Denise, Greg & Steve Malson ================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:12:14 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: apology/ FYI/ truce From: keithsummers@webtv.net Rick, I "also" was one of the original members of OBC as I was profiled in For Collectors Only newsletter #3 by Unk Phil. Secondly, for those that don't know, I believe Rick has a personal vendetta due to a Fantasy Baseball League event 2 yrs ago. I have emailed him several times & he has never replied since the league ended. Also twice he was sent 10% discounts on my behalf from Amazon (no reply) & once I commented I found an old copy of FCO where he was on the cover (no reply). I hate that this controversy is happening during Christmas but feel I had to reply ASAP after the note Rick sent to the group. BTW, I was involved in the Lynn Miller event by winning at least 1 of his auctions & offering anyone who signed up for PayPal a donation to Lynn's fund (the $5 referral fee I got + it gave them $5 for the cause if they chose). The two combined came to about $60 total if I remember correct. So I am well aware of OBC stuff other than cards & I think it's great. Note: I make less than $12K per yr so $60 to me is like $180 for someone making $36K a yr. I also was brought to tears when I read the email sent to me about Kevin who was dying of cancer if I remember correct & went to the post office & retrieved about 100 packages for him & his son to assemble a set. That is 2 great things OBC did to name a few. The Cards for kids is also a great thing. I have rcvd several supporting comments thru private email & I hope those people will email the OBCAC at least, if you don't want to reply to the group (unless Rick agrees to a truce). Once again I meant no offense to anyone in the group. As I said before, I WILL WATCH MY COMMENTS IN THE FUTURE & APOLOGIZE TO THOSE I OFFENDED. BTW, I wish the Braves had traded away Glavine, Weiss or anyone else almost, as Klesko was my fav Brave at the time. I was glad they got Reggie Sanders but he didn't display his power & speed like I hoped he would. Maybe a 2 week suspension of posting priviledges is in order? Also I wonder if Rick remembers I was obsessively trying to acquire Pudge from him. Yes, Ivan Rodriguez. I sent so many offers he got mad at me :-) That's OCD at work. But the vendetta I think is about when Rick tried to trade his stars to a fellow owner & I protested to the group saying it would make a mockery of the league (wasn't an even deal) & will have meant the others basically wasted 6 months of their time. Rick apologized & said he would do no trading to disrupt the league. Nobody else commented & all was forgotten, supposedly. Rick, you probably don't want to hear it but, I'll call a truce if you are willing. You have been a better asset to the group than me so far I admit :-) Hopefully I will be allowed to stay & make a better contribution in 2002. Happy Holidays gang! ================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:40:31 EST Subject: Site for the team collector.. To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com I came across this site and thought some of you boys might want to check it out. He catagorizes everything by team, has a number of sets available, and best of all, has a checklist for most sets by team... http://www.teamsets4u.com/ ================= To: "ramblings" Subject: Guru-Claus visits Andover Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:25:31 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" Believe it or not, I was up past midnight and able to resist the temptation to open my OBC Santa package from Mr. Tipton himself! That is probably because I'm nursing a cold and my kids would beat me if I opened it without them :) I saved it for last this morning and wasn't disappointed! I got a T.O. (Tipton Original) '61 post of Frank Malzone....the rare NPOF variation (No Picture On Front)! a great card! This card was created by 9-year-old Guru, while he was in the early stages of developing his now famous grading system. Along with the Tipton Malzone came a framed set of Mantle-Maris with the key stats of 54-61 clearly visible on the front! I guess the Mantle is from an SI, not an actual Post cereal package, but that does not diminish the total coolness of this gift. HomeRun Guru! Thanks a bunch. Now the best part is that my daughter has a digital camera, so you guys can check this nifty item out right now! "click" below.... http://people.ne.mediaone.net/seankatie/obcsanta.jpg Merry Christmas Everyone! ================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 16:47:40 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: My OBC Santa From: "larryobc" Bama (John Harrell) was my OBC Santa. This morning I opened up the puffy he sent me and found inside two unopened packs of 1980 Fleer World Series Trading Cards. So I really enjoyed opening up some wax packs for the first time since 1992! The card fronts are just like the 70 71 Fleer World Series Cards and the backs have team stickers. John did not have my wantlist to look at, but he could not have given me a nicer gift. John I will send a list of the cards I got so you can unload some of your extras on me! Thanks again John. Merry Christmas to all OBCers ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 01:24:39 +0800 Subject: Santa no-show From: " john harrell" With all his deliveries to be made last night I'm sure my OBC Santa took a wrong turn somewhere. If you happened to be my OBC Santa could you let me know, in case something was misplaced. I just don't remember receiving anything marked for Xmas. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 07:41:43 +0800 Subject: A belated tip of the From: " john harrell" OBC stocking cap to: Earl Kilbourn - who it turns out delivered a smashing OBC Xmas hit to my UV lists with close to 50 hits. Apparently my lust for cardboard overcame my visual awareness and I ignored clearly printed DO NOT OPEN TIL XMAS warnings. This was about 3 weeks ago. Not surprising that at my advanced age, the sensory processes are fading. Thanks again to Earl for a fabulous Xmas package that brings two sets much closer to completion and reminds me that the joy of cardboard goes far beyond the binders, to those random acts of kindness for which this group is famous. Have an error-free season. ================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 19:09:17 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Santa no-show To: jharrell001@sprintmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sweendoger@aol.com Same here. I figure the mail is slow and that Scrooge didn't intercept it. Merry X-mas Pat Sweeney. 0007 In a message dated 12/25/01 9:25:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, jharrell001@sprintmail.com writes: > Subj:[OBC-Ramblings] Santa no-show > Date:12/25/01 9:25:14 AM Pacific Standard Time > From:jharrell001@sprintmail.com > To:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Sent from the Internet > With all his deliveries to be made last night I'm sure my OBC Santa took a > wrong turn somewhere. If you happened to be my OBC Santa could you let me > know, in case something was misplaced. I just don't remember receiving > anything marked for Xmas. > Thanks ================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:28:07 EST Subject: looking for some particular cards To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, prewartraders@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com The big SCD lists three types of W516s. There are actually at least five different types, and maybe more. If anyone has any of the following cards, I'd really appreciate a color scan (prefer jpg format at least 150 pixels wide) to help me solve this mystery. W516-2-1 (reverse copyright sign and only red & blue colors used) any cards, but especially any of these: 1 George Burns 21 George Bancroft 25 M. Kelley 26 Clyde Milan 27 Christy Mathewson 28 Eddie Collins W516-2 (reverse copyright sign, full colors in the picture and caption name in blue ink, not the normal black) any cards ================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 01:44:04 -0500 To: Neal Thomas Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1976 Hostess Question From: Mark S Talbot Could it be sun faded ink Neal? I don't know if there is a brown ink variation. I do know that different products were used to market the cards, King Dongs, Ho-Ho's, Twinkees, etc... The difference could be from different products. Any other suggestions out there? How about Andy - he has some of these - maybe he knows!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * Neal Thomas wrote: > Hi all- > Quick question: I have some 1976 Hostess cards, and some of the > cards have the backs written in black ink, and some have brown ink. > I have some dupes where one is black and the other is brown. Any > ideas on this? SCD doesn't list any back variations? > Neal > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:51:37 EST Subject: On vacation To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Hey Gang! My plans for the next week or so have changed drastically, as my wife and I are taking a few days off for a vacation...to Bermuda!! We're leaving tomorrow morning and will be back on the 30th. Until then... Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:54:01 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1976 Hostess Question From: Neal Thomas These are obviously two different colors--not faded. The black writing seems a bit more "blurred" and the brown writing is sharper, and I have cards with both colors as well. Someone else mentioned Ho Hos and Ding Dong variations--sounds like a great OBC variation, huh? ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Mark S Talbot Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1976 Hostess Question Date: 12/26/2001 01:44am Could it be sun faded ink Neal? I don't know if there is a brown ink variation. I do know that different products were used to market the King Dongs, Ho-Ho's, Twinkees, etc... The difference could be from different products. Any other suggestions out there? How about Andy - he has some of these - maybe he knows!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * Neal Thomas wrote: > Hi all- > Quick question: I have some 1976 Hostess cards, and some of the > cards have the backs written in black ink, and some have brown ink. > I have some dupes where one is black and the other is brown. Any > ideas on this? SCD doesn't list any back variations? > Neal > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 12:11:22 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1976 Hostess Question To: talbot1@home.com, nthomas@pol.net From: Sweendoger@aol.com To add to the mystery... I spotted an "almost" trend. I only have about 80 cards, but all of the card numbers <91 are black and all the card numbers > 90 are brown. --> except for two cards, 125 and 126? Am I helping to solve the problem or making it more complex? In a message dated 12/25/01 10:44:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, talbot1@home.com writes: > Subj:Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1976 Hostess Question > Date:12/25/01 10:44:31 PM Pacific Standard Time > From:talbot1@home.com > To:nthomas@pol.net > CC:OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Sent from the Internet > Could it be sun faded ink Neal? I don't know if there is a brown ink > variation. I do know that different products were used to market the > cards, > King Dongs, Ho-Ho's, Twinkees, etc... The difference could be from > different products. Any other suggestions out there? How about Andy - he > has some of these - maybe he knows!!! > REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK > "Live long and prosper" - Spock > ********************************* > * Mark S. Talbot * > * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * > * Sterling Heights, MI. * > * 48312-4604 * > * talbot1@home.com * > ********************************* > ***************************************************** > Neal Thomas wrote: > > Hi all- > > > > Quick question: I have some 1976 Hostess cards, and some of the > > cards have the backs written in black ink, and some have brown ink. > > I have some dupes where one is black and the other is brown. Any > > ideas on this? SCD doesn't list any back variations? > > > > Neal ================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 12:21:59 EST Subject: Ebay question To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com An ebay seller refuses to disclose the shipping cost before the auction closes. Can he do that? ================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 12:37:36 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ebay question To: JDelott@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com In a message dated 12/26/2001 12:23:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, jdelott@aol.com writes: << An ebay seller refuses to disclose the shipping cost before the auction closes. Can he do that? >> I wouldn't deal with him. Sounds like a ripoff ready to happen. There was a guy recently who wanted to charge $7 for insured shipping via USPS for an item below $50. That should have cost $1.10 insurance + 1st class shipping total of probably around $2. ================= To: Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Santa no-show Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:45:49 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" Like Bama, I'm also in the position of not having received an envelope from the OBC Santa. I've received a number of packages over the past few weeks, none of which made mention of the OBC Xmas thingee. I know that overseas postal services seem to have been a little slower since Sept 11, so perhaps there's still something on the way. So if you were my OBC Santa, perhaps you could just drop me a quick line to let me know. Cheers for now! Glenn Codere Glasgow, Scotland -----Original Message----- From: john harrell [mailto:jharrell001@sprintmail.com] Sent: 25 December 2001 17:25 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Santa no-show With all his deliveries to be made last night I'm sure my OBC Santa took a wrong turn somewhere. If you happened to be my OBC Santa could you let me know, in case something was misplaced. I just don't remember receiving anything marked for Xmas. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Free web site options? Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:03:05 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Could I get some advice on where to get a free website? I've tried geocities.com with dismal results. I only need something simple, so that I canpost my lists and info and pictures about me. I prefer to create the html myself rather than use a wizard. My attempts with a wizard haven't endedup producing good results. I hope to hear from y'all soon. :-) ================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:49:06 EST Subject: A few availables To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: XDDX@aol.com Hey guys/gals- The following are available to whomever (whoever?) wants them. Also, Santa was gracious enough to bring me a new 2002 SCD Standard Catalog, making my 1999 version available as well to anyone who could put it to use .... FCFS. I was interested to compare the prices between the two catalogs, three years apart. Most of the stuff I collect (60s and 70s) have not really changed, although commons for alot of years edged up. I don't keep up with the new stuff at all, but would have guessed Griffey Jr had faded the last few years, and that Bonds would be real hot right now. However, for many of last years inserts the Griffey was listed 3 or 4 times higher than the Bonds. 1992 ZipLoc Nellie Fox 1958 Topps 286, 352, 389, 437, 483 1959 Topps 554 1960 Topps 5, 8, 15, 30, 53, 98, 110, 113,114, 115, 116,128, 132, 171, 177, 225, 238, 246, 268, 272, 339, 404 1961 Topps 27, 31, 36, 42, 61, 68, 72, 90, 93 98, 116, 225, 130, 145, 147, 201 1961 Post 76,173 1962 Post 135 1963 Post 1, 74 1961 Topps 199, 231 1965 Topps 558, 572 1966 Topps 99 1969 Topps Deckle 9, 23 1970 Topps 27, 28, 29, 30, 34, 37, 39, 40, 55, 56, 57, 64, 74, 347, 371, 376, 384, 477, 525, 552 1972 Topps 324, 332, 334, 335, 485, 486, 501, 552, 557, 569, 585, 586, 601, 1970 Topps Story Booklets: 2, 7, 16 1971 Scratch-offs: Allen, Aparicio, Osteen, Powell, Wynn 1975 Topps 6, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, 19, 22, 33, 98,104, 107, 110, 114, 128, 241, 244, 264, 383, 404, 455, 488, 492, 508, 509, 521,525, 563, 564, 630, 650, 658 ================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 00:43:34 EST Subject: Type Card Checklist Update To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: dsh46@aol.com Well gang, I'm cleaning up my original type card list for posting to the OBC website soon in anticipation of the work to come. Before I put it up, I wanted to give you a list of American Card Catalog (ACC) designations before the project begins. For those of you unfamiliar with this book, the American Card Catalog was first published in 1937 by Jefferson Burdick (yes, of the Burdick Collection of Baseball Cards at the Metropolitan Museum of Art) and greatly expanded over the next 23 years until the final edition came out in 1960. My copy is a reprint of the 1960 edition issued in 1988 by the Card Collector's Company, which was founded by Woody Gelman, the art director at Topps for many years, and later taken over by his son, Richard. The ACC is the foundation of all card collecting and was, of course, the forerunner of all the checklists and price guides that came after. When you hear tobacco cards referred to as "T Cards" or Caramel Cards referred to as "E Cards", it's because of the system developed by Burdick in the ACC. While these designations are really not used anymore for new issues, they are indispensable for anyone who collects cards issued prior to the 1960's. Some attempts were made by a few of the old hobby veterans to continue the use of the ACC system. Buck Barker issued updates to the ACC in the 1960's (in one of the hobby publications I think) and the Sports Collector's Bible tried to carry on the tradition, along with a few other enterprising souls in the 70's, but with the demise of the long-running hobby publication The Trader Speaks in the late 70's and the rise of SCD, the hobby has gone with using the manufacturer's name as the reference point for each set issued instead of the ACC designation. This is easier but, to me at least, it means that collectors lose a vital link to the history of the hobby. My checklist is arranged in ACC order, but with Topps shown first because that's just the way I set it up originally. I kept most of the ACC designations intact, with some exceptions, some not of my own volition: I created an "O" designation for oddball items and an "(SP)" designation for South American and Cuban cards. "N" cards, originally shown by Burdick as Central and South American cards are now shown as Nineteenth Century tobacco cards in accordance with prevailing hobby usage and nomenclature. There was actually no designation for Nineteenth Century cards in the ACC, just a number for each set. "WG" in the ACC stands for greeting cards, but hobby usage is now Game Cards. "ST" is shown a few times for stamps (like Topps issued) and "FC" for Canadian Food issues; they both came after the last ACC was issued. "PM", "PS", "PW", "PT" and "PPC" came later as well. The checklist has Postcard (PC) issues in it still, although I am thinking about taking them out as my research in this area is inadequate and there are other resources out there for Postcard issues, notably Dan Even who writes a sporadic column for SCD. Some "W" issues could really be called Postcards, but those will remain in the checklist. Items referred to by Burdick as inserts mean they were issued with another product (like bread), although his use of the term is inconsistent. I'm probably going to delete the TCMA minor league issues too. With the exception of Kellogg's cards (shown through 1983), I've used 1980 as the cutoff date. The Oddball listings are also incomplete, plus some items are not exactly cards in the true sense of the word, but I think worthy of the attention of this group. Not detailed are Cartes des Visite (CDV's) as these were essentially one-offs issued in the 1860's and 70's. Poorly detailed are cards from the W700's (see below). The checklist right now is in need of some serious revision. I haven't even updated the Topps listings yet, although I do have a separate database I keep for Topps and will include it in the updated list when it is ready. The major areas I need help on are back variations for various sets and issue dates. I guess the easiest way to go about handling corrections/updates is to have them e-mailed to me. I'll maintain a file and post the findings on a regular basis. I'll also post details of my reference library soon, to see if anybody has other sources that might be helpful. OK, here goes (designations marked with an * are not included in my checklist, as not all designations cover baseball cards). Remember, these are all primarily supposed to be paper products (and some pins and other trinkets), primarily used as advertising and some of the designations are pretty strange. The checklist should be up on the website soon, I'm just tidying it up. ACC Designations *(none) (Was Nineteenth Century, now unused) A Tobacco Albums B Blankets and Rugs *BC Cloth Items BF Felt Novelties C Canada Tobacco D Bakery Inserts *DC Canada Bakery E Early Candy & Gum *EN Central & South America Gums F Food Inserts *G (A catch-all category, including banners, posters, albums, movie stills, sheet music, calendars and cigar bands) H (Another catch-all, including Currier and Ives, advertising products and design sets) *HA Pre 1850 Advertising *HB Mechanical Banks *HC Clarks Threads *HD Advertising Design Group *HG Prang Advertising (Prang was a graphic artist) *HK Clipper Ships *HL Liebigs US (Some kind of meat extract) *HM M&M Cards (Metamorphic & Mechanical) *HN Central and South America Advertising *HP Advertising Product Groups *HS Advertising Service Groups *HX Local Stock Advertising *J Soda Cards *K Coffee Cards L Leathers M Periodicals N Nineteenth Century (was Central & South American Tobacco-see *NW Cuba Wrappers *NX Misc. Foreign P Tobacco Pin Buttons PC Postcards *PD Bakery Buttons PE Early Candy Pins PF Foods Buttons *PL Playing Cards PR Recent Gum Pins *PU Misc. Pins *PX Novelty Metals (includes plastic coins also) Q Stereoscope Cards R Gum Cards (R1-R346 are 1948 and earlier) S Silks *SC Canada Silks *SN Central & South American Silks T 20th Century US Tobacco *T400 US issued abroad (relates to British Export Firm called British American Tobacco Co. These cards are not US issues.) U Unclassified Folders *U301 Matchboxes UM Misc. Inserts UN Central & South American Misc. UO Gas & Oil Inserts UT Theatre Inserts (also ticket stubs) *UW Weighing Machine V Canada Candy W Album Cards (a catch-all again, although more defined than the G or H designations. W1-W252 are "early", W401-881 are 'recent", although the designation is basically for team issued Picture Packs) WG Game Cards (was Greeting Cards) *Y (yet another catch-all, this one includes rewards of merit, tokens of affection, calling cards, bible cards and scrap pictures) *Z Paper Dolls Added After Burdick FC Canadian Foods (I think this designation was created by Buck N Nineteenth Century (actually added due to hobby usage) O Oddball PA Pins Advertising (again, I think Buck Barker created this one) PB Pins Bakery (Barker) PM Ballpark Issue Pins 1950's (Barker) PPC Pencil Clips (Barker) PS Handheld Scorekeepers (Barker) PT Cuban Pins (Barker) PW Team Issued Pins/Recent Pins 1960's (Barker) (SP) South American and Cuban Cards ST Stamp Inserts (Barker) WG Game Cards (hobby usage) That's just the stuff with designations. There are numerous categories of paper collectibles Burdick just discusses generally as they could not in any way be catalogued properly, like "Containers, general" and "Baggage Labels". Each set has a small description in the ACC, it's not an individual set checklist but prices are generally listed: T206 commons at ten cents each, fifty bucks for the Wagner. Well, it's confusing! If you want in on the fun, send me an e-mail. This will get going in earnest in the new year. ================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:51:24 EST Subject: Re: 1976 Hostess Question To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: dsh46@aol.com hey ho: 1976 Hostess cards come in either brown or black ink variations. The brown ink is a little scarcer. ================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:00:00 EST Subject: New Year's Resolution -- Cards Available To: OCTraders@onelist.com, vct@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: brockhattox@cs.com I am determined to reduce the amount of cards I have in my collection during January. I have decided to only keep cards of a few stars and give the rest This means I will be offering almost complete sets of the major brands from 1981 and later. I will also send out 1500-2000 count boxes of stars and partial sets for the major brands. I don't have much in the way of commons except those in my sets. All I am asking in return is for the payment of the postage. The stars I have decided to keep are: Johnson, Maddux, Clemens, Ryan. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Griffey, Jr., Murray, and Jackson. Henderson, Gwynn, Ripken, Boggs, Rose, Ozzie. Rookie cards only of Conseco, Chipper, Andruw, Glavine, Smoltz, Jeter. I can't dig through these cards and find a particular player or team for you, so if you want a box of Topps covering 3-4 years, or Upper Deck or whatever, and are willing to pay the freight, just let me know. As we get into January, I will post available lots. In the meantime, let me know if there is a set or manufacturer you would like to have. Any unclaimed cards will go to Dr. Manary's Cards for Kids program for next year. Happy New Year, Brock H. ================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 21:43:17 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Wantlist@yahoogroups.com Subject: The Original Frank Thomas From: Originaleek@webtv.net sent a nice note to Original EEK. I wasn't sure where to post this so I'll do both. Actually since Frank was thanking me for some unmetionables I sent him, this could go to thanks too I suppose. At any rate Frank sent a wantlist, but I can't tell you it was for 2001T but I can tell you the ones left after I sent some more out. They are #407, 410, 413, 414, 424, 448, 452, 473, 478, 485, 491, 497, 503, 508, 516, 521, 545, 562, 580, 583, 584, 593, 596, 608, 609, 612, 616, 620, 621, 623, 626, 636, 643, 645, 650, 655, 660, 665, 669, 674, 675, 679, 688, 702, 706, 720, 726, 729, 732, 734, 735,737, 738, 741, 742, 747, 750, 783, 786 & 788. It's always a great feeling to send out cardboard to OBCer's but there is something special about sending cards to Frank (even if they are We keep what we give away! ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 00:46:23 EST Subject: Type Card Checklist Update #2 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: dsh46@aol.com Well, kids--phase 2. I'm listing below all the reference material I used to make up my type card checklist. I've also listed the materials i have for other sports and non-sports as I may post the Topps Checklist as well, although that would require a major cleanup of that checklist on my part. If anybody has reference materials not on my list that might be useful, please let me know. I'm hoping to send the baseball type card checklist itself to Dan Austin for posting on the website this week. Vertical File Collection (1500+ articles from various hobby pubs, 1981 to 1948 Through 1986 Unopened Baseball Wax Packs, Boxes and Wrappers Guide, 2nd ed. (Prince of Cards) American Card Catalog, reprint of 1960 ed. American Premium Guide to Baseball Cards (Erbe) Baseball Card Pricing Guide 1948-1975 Classic Baseball Cards (The Big Book) Complete Book of Baseball Cards Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards Vol. 1, 19th Century (Lipset) Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards Vol. 2, Early Gum & Candy Cards (Lipset) Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards Vol.3, Tobacco Cards (Lipset) Mickey Mantle Memorabilia (SCD) Mistake Manual, 2nd ed. (Nozaki) Old Judge, The First Four Years (Lipset) Old Judge Newsletters Sport Americana Baseball Card Alphabetical Checklist, 2nd ed. Sport Americana Baseball Card Price Guide, 3rd ed. (Beckett) Sport Americana Baseball Memorabilia and Autograph Price Guide, 1st ed. Sport Americana Team Baseball Card Checklist, 3rd ed. Sports Collectors Bible, 3rd ed. Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards, 1999 Sports Cards Presents The Comprehensive Guide to Fleer (Magazine) Sports Cards Presents The Comprehensive Guide to Topps (Magazine) T 206, The Monster Topps Baseball Cards (The Big Book) Topps, The Auction (Geurnsey's) Tuff Stuff Presents Topps (Magazine) Ultimate Insider's Guide to Baseball Cards World's Best Unopened Pack, Wrapper & Display Box Guide (Mark Murphy) The Baseball Encyclopedia, 4th ed. Sporting News Hall of Fame Fact Book, 1983 Sporting News Official Baseball Guides, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970 Other Sports Collector's Guide to Sports Illustrated and Sports Publications Modern Era 1951-1982 Hockey Card and Premium Price Guide Sport Americana Football, Hockey, Basketball and Boxing Card Price Guide, 2nd Sports Encyclopedia: Pro Football, 1982 Standard Catalog of Football, Basketball & Hockey Cards, 1st ed. American Tobacco Cards: Price Guide & Checklist Checklist and Prices of U.S. Non-Sports Wrappers (Neuner) Sport Americana Price Guide to the Non-Sports Cards, 2nd ed. (Benjamin) Sport Americana Price Guide to the Non-Sports Cards 1930-1960, 2nd ed. Sport Americana Price Guide to the Non-Sports Cards 1961-1992, 4th ed. Wacky Packages Handbook, 2nd ed. The Wrapper (Magazine) I can tell you, in addition to my vertical files, I use these the most and recommend them for various reasons: American Card Catalog, reprint of 1960 ed.-The grandaddy of them all. Unbelievably packed with info. American Premium Guide to Baseball Cards (Erbe)-The most comprehensive for Old judge and 19th Century cards. Long out of print though. Lipset Encyclopedias-Great for back variations and cross referencing sets. Sport Americana Baseball Card Price Guide, 3rd ed. (Beckett)-the second guide I ever bought and still one of the best. Sports Collectors Bible, 3rd ed.-Many obscure sets checklisted. Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards, 1999-Despite all the mistakes, still the The Baseball Encyclopedia, 4th ed.-This one has all time team rosters, needed to determine issue dates. Sporting News Official Baseball Guides, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970-Vital for determining Topps test, etc. issues. If you like Non-Sports, the Benjamin books are easily the best. Well, that's that, ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 01:16:19 EST Subject: A grand time! To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: XTrJmx@aol.com Hi all... Our family alternates spending the holidays with my folks up in northern Minnesota and my wife's folks, out here in Frederick, MD. This year, we are out east and I had the every-other-year pleasure of going over to Steve Rittenberg's house Wednesday evening. Now last time I went over to his place was 2 years ago and I'm *STILL* smiling every time I think of the '58 Mantle he handed me (my *first* -- and only -- Mantle regular issue) and the enjoyable afternoon we had shuffling through cards. Well folks... this year was even better than my last visit! Impossible? You haven't met Steve... For starters, when it was clear that I was going to be able to come on over, Steve also called Andy Cook, who decided to come over too. Within a few minutes of Andy arriving, we were digging through cards with stacks flying all over the place. While Andy and Steve were trading some awesome cards, I guess they didn't want me to feel out of place. Andy asked what years I was working on and when I didn't mention the '66 Topps set, he asked if I'd like to start it. I told him that I really didn't think it was a good idea to add yet another set to my wantlist and he seemed to be ok with that. However, a few minutes later, he hands me a HUGE stack of '66s and told me that he was tired of hauling them around with him and that now I *had* to start the '66 set. Well, OK... if you're going to twist my arm... ;-) Just as I was starting to get over the shock, Steve turns to me and says "Merry Christmas" and hands me five more '66s... MAYS, KILLEBREW, BILLY WILLIAMS, FRANK ROBINSON, AND... DRUM ROLL PLEASE... A JIM PALMER ROOKIE CARD!!!!!!!! Whoa!! See... I told you he outdid himself! But wait... that's not all! After another half hour, Andy and his dad had to leave. Steve continued to pull out oddball nonsport tobacco, bread, and confection cards, challenging me to identify them. Fortunately, I'd brought my American Card Catalog by Jefferson Burdick. Unfortunately, there were still a handful of issues that stumped me! I *will* identify them, Steve... just going to take more time (I love this type of thing! ). The kicker is that once I identified an issue, Steve asked if I had it in my nonsport typecard collection. Of course I didn't, in most cases. Guess what... now I do! Amazing... but still not After we had messed around with nonsports stuff for a while, I mentioned to him a UV-infected '86 Donruss I needed to finish the set. He led me upstairs and two minutes later, the set was complete. I've been working on that set since '86 and can't believe it's now finished. I know that a lot of you folks routinely finish stuff like Callahan sets, '68 Topps sets, and even an occassional T206, Goudey, or Playball which are all way out of my league. I rarely finish any sets and despite it being new and UV-infected, it was still a great thrill. In addition to finishing *my* set, he also handed over two boxes for my daughter's birthyear set. We'd completed the regular '92 Topps a couple years ago, but have been working slowly on the "parallel" Gold and Gold Winners sets. The Gold Winners are pretty tough, but the regular "gold" parallels are a bear. The box that Steve gave her had all but 151 of the REGULAR gold and a ton of the Gold Winners. Steve, I wish you could have seen her face when she opened the boxes up this evening. :-) In addition to the gold cards, Steve also gave Sarah some cards of Shawn Green and a way-cool 500 piece "Play Ball!" Jigsaw Puzzle. She loved 'em all!! Thanks from her (and me!!)... Once we'd finished mucking about with my UV stuff, I finally got Steve to start digging through some of the feeble fodder I'd brought and fortunately there was a little smattering of stuff that he could use, including a batch of relatively new Topps and OPC hockey cards. I reminded Steve that I wanted to buy $20 worth of '71-72 O-Pee-Chee cards from his dupes box, so he pulls out what he figured would be adequate... Let's see... hmmm... Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Phil Esposito, Brad Park, Gil Perrault, + a *bunch* more stars and toss in a 2nd series CL that books for $150 and that makes about $20 worth of cards. I'm glad he majored in economics, because it was nearly as confusing and exhilarating as Iggy's Mod 9 math! Once he'd gotten most of the stars taken care of for the '71-72 set, he dug out a hockey stamp booklet from the same vintage and asked if I liked them. When I said I thought they were cool, he reached in and pulled dang near a complete set of them and put them into my box, and then grabbed some of the Story Booklets and told me I had to take them too. Well, I was completely dazed by this point and didn't even see the next event coming. Earlier in the evening he had shown me some old Parkhursts and asked if I was collecting any of the old sets. I said that I had only considered doing the Topps and Parkhursts from '61-62, as they were from my birthyear ('61). Nothing more had been said about the old cards when Steve not-so-innocently walked back over and pulled out his binder to show me the '61-'62 Topps that he had put together. I was going through them, admiring the cool designs used in the set while Steve was back over by his computer. A moment later he comes back with a stack of cards in his hand and starts tossing 'em on the table... his dupes from the '61-62 Topps set! In all, he pulled 20 and handed 'em to me... folks, there's only 66 cards in the entire freakin' set!! WOW!!!! Steve topped off the evening by adding a couple more nonsport and a couple '60-61 Parkie dupes that he had. What can I say??? I'm humbled, almost embarrassed, and (obviously) on cloud nine. I've looked through the hockey cards four times today. I've checklisted them along with the new '66 Topps set. What a great way to spend a vacation. Thanks very, very much Steve! As much as I love the cards, your generousity and friendship were even more delightful. And another thanks to Andy Cook for the terrific starter of '66s... enjoyed meeting you, Andy! Now for the kicker... we're supposed to meet for a card show on Saturday. I can hardly wait! Take care... ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Split an ebay lot? Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 01:42:32 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Here's another one: TYPE CARD LOT: 70 Scarce American Tobacco/Trade Issues Of the 70 cards, it says that 32 are Lorillard Co. Polar Bear Tobacco Coupons and 26 other are "26 Anonymous Educational Pictures, Large Premiums showing famous U.S. Landmarks, etc. ". I'm not interested in these. But I am interested in the rest which are Philadelphia Caramel non-sport cards and Please get in touch if interested. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: low grade Hank Aaron RC on ebay Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:04:20 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" This one belongs in OBC, IMHO. Auction ends Sat 10:55pm PST. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1054545692 The best part about it is that it is listed under "hockey sets" ================= To: "ramblings" Subject: available oddball cards of your "favorite stars"? Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:33:28 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" Ken gave me this, and said it came from someone else. Check out the http://people.ne.mediaone.net/seankatie/sheet.JPG the players are: Joe Morgan, Johnny Callison, Gus Triandos, no wait, just kidding :) They really are: Steve Sax, Dale Murphy, Jody Davis, Bill Gullickson, Mike Scott, Roger McDowell, Steve Bedrosian, Johnny Ray, Ozzie Smith, Steve Garvey, Mike Krukow, Smokey Bear, Mike Fitzgerald. So, if you collect any of these guys or if you want the whole sheet, just let me know. These were printed in 1987. If you can't see the pic on the web and want a look, I will email you the picture. I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays! ================= To: "ramblings" Subject: odd balls Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:34:50 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" I forgot to mention that these cards measure approx 4" x 6" ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:07:27 EST Subject: Tply's Dupes Box 12/28/2001 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com All - I would like to do my part and get as many of the following cards out before I have to return to Washington, DC January 7, 2001. Please don't be TRIPS DUPES BOX AVAILABLE 12/26/2001 BASEBALL DUPES ***IMAGES AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST*** 1911 T206 (GOLD BORDERS) THOMAS E. DOWNEY REDS 1956 TOPPS 70 (2), 93 1958 TOPPS 1963 TOPPS 1965 TOPPS 1966 TOPPS 5, 21, 33, 49, 84, 96, 123, 189 1967 TOPPS 582 (2) 1970 TOPPS 4, 6, 13, 19 (2), 23, 24, 35, 37, 38, 41, 43, 44, 48, 54, 57 (2), 79 (2), 80, 91 (2), 92 (2), 93 (2), 103, 108, 111, 113 (2), 124, 126, 127 (2), 131 (2), 132 (2), 140, 266 (3), 268 (3), 274 (2), 277, 278 (4), 297, 303, 316, 322, 324 (2), 334 (3), 347, 349, 354 (2), 361 (2), 366, 367, 374, 391 (2), 392 (3), 393 (2), 395, 452 (2), 454 (2) 1971 TOPPS 2, 3 (2), 10, 11, 12, 16, 18, 27, 28, 41, 42 (2), 51, 52 (2), 57, 59 (2), 60, 73 (2), 77, 84, 89, 91, 102, 103, 105, 108 (2), 109, 110 (4), 113 (2), 114, 120, 121, 124 (2), 125, 128, 131, 132, 163, 223, 239, 240 (2), 242, 261, 274, 1972 TOPPS 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19 (2), 22 (2), 24, 27, 30 (2), 31, 35, 36, 39 (3), 40, 41, 43, 45, 48, 53, 54, 55, 56 (2), 57 (2), 58 (3), 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68, 71, 73 (3), 74, 75, 76, 77, 78 (2), 81, 83, 97, 98 (2), 99 (4), 103, 106, 108, 109, 110, 111, 115 (2), 116, 118 (3), 119, 121, 122, 124, 126, 129, 136, 146, 149 (2), 199 (3), 204, 207 (4), 211, 214, 231 (2), 238 (5), 242 (7), 246, 295, 311, 366, 374, 394 1973 TOPPS 11, 27, 40 (2), 96, 101, 118 (2), 161, 197, 211, 236, 290 1974 TOPPS 8 (5), 13 (2), 14 (3), 25, 59, 63, 67, 71, 76, 99 (2), 117, 119, 133, 137, 172 (2), 175, 176, 177, 189, 210, 213 (3), 221, 223, 228, 233, 247, 249, 256, 284, 294 (2), 295, 308 (2), 324, 328, 335 (2), 343, 354 (3), 370 (3), 405, 406, 411, 416 (2), 420, 442, 447, 449, 466 (2), 467, 482, 492, 493, 498, 506, 539 (2), 563, 617 1974 TOPPS TRADED 43T, 51T (3), 62T (2), 63T (2), 73T, 139T (2), 151T, 165T, 175T, 186T (6), 270T, 313T, 373T, 428T, 348T, 486T (2), 496T, 579T (2), 616T (2), 649T 1975 TOPPS 11, 31, 37, 53, 54 (2), 68, 78 (2), 92, 102, 107, 147, 162 (2), 214, 266, 271, 316 (3), 317, 323, 326 (2), 327, 329, 330, 332 (3), 347, 353, 366 (2), 401, 424, 451, 464, 467 (2), 468, 486, 490, 495, 536 (2), 626, 632 (2), 633, 1976 TOPPS 22, 26 (2), 27 (2), 29, 30 (2), 33 (3), 37 (2), 51, 52, 57, 110 (4), 112, 113, 116 (2), 122, 136 (2), 148, 153, 155 (3), 156, 162 (3), 164 (3), 171 (5), 181 (2), 182 (3), 183, 186 (2), 212 (6), 214, 220, 221, 224 (4), 225 (2), 231 (3), 232, 238 (3), 245, 247, 250, 256 (7), 263, 269, 271, 272, 273, 281, 282 (3), 283 (3), 287 (3), 290, 296, 297 (3), 298 (4), 301, 302 (5), 303, 306 (2), 309 (2), 311, 312 (5), 320, 321, 322, 327, 328, 332, 333, 334, 338, 352, 356, 364 (2), 383, 397, 398, 401, 403 (2), 404, 406, 409, 410, 413, 424, 428, 439, 446, 447, 478, 479, 484, 491, 492, 497 (2), 503, 509, 514, 516, 521 (2), 524, 536 (2), 544, 555, 571, 572 (4), 576 (4), 577 (2), 584, 601, 602, 607, 608, 615, 627, 629, 630, 634, 645, 648, 651, 652 (2) 1976 TOPPS TRADED 27T (19), 28t, 44T (12), 58T, 85T, 99T, 120T (12), 127T (14), 146T (15), 158T (16), 208T (19), 211T (14), 231T (16), 250T, 259T (10), 292T (11), 296T (15), 309T (17), 338T (11), 383T (14), 385T (14), 401T (17), 410T (14), 411 (17), 428T (10), 434T (15), 464T (18), 497T (15), 524T (17), 527T (14), 528T (16), 532T (15), 554T (10), 579T (13), 583T (15), 618T (14), 632T (17), 649T (17) CHECKLIST NO NUMBER (11) 1977 TOPPS 91, 97 (3), 195 (2), 200, 275, 291, 342, 401, 408 (2), 454, 511, 544, 569 1978 TOPPS 16, 24, 25, 29 (6), 32, 37, 38 (2), 43 (2), 47 (2), 51 (3), 53 (3), 56, 61, 64 (2), 67 (5), 68 (5), 77 (3), 78 (4), 79, 85 (3), 93 (6), 102 (2), 106, 109, 132, 135 (3), 147, 154 (3), 157 (3), 170, 177 (2), 186 (2), 187 (6), 190, 191, 194 (2), 197, 202 (2), 204 (3), 207 (3), 211 (4), 212, 216 (2), 217 (2), 219 (2), 221 (2), 224 (3), 225 (3), 228, 236, 242 (4), 246 (3), 247, 248 (5), 249 (2), 252 (2), 260 (2), 261 (3), 263, 265 (6), 266 (2), 268 (2), 269, 271 (2), 272, 273 (3), 276 (3), 281 (2), 284, 285 (4), 286, 290 (3), 296 (2), 297 (3), 298, 299, 306 (4), 307, 308 (2), 311 (5), 316, 322 (2), 323 (2), 326 (7), 327 (6), 330, 342 (2), 343 (5), 349 (4), 353, 354 (4), 364, 365, 366 (3), 372, 377 (2), 378, 384 (2), 388 (4), 389, 394, 396 (2), 401 (2), 403, 406 (4), 414 (3), 417, 425 (3), 428, 430, 436 (7), 437 (3), 438, 441 (2), 443, 445, 449 (4), 458 (2), 459, 461(4), 462, 472 (4), 475, 477 (2), 483, 486, 487 (5), 488, 496 (4), 497, 502 (2), 504, 507, 509, 511 (2), 518, 527 (2), 538 (3), 539, 541, 543 (2), 544 (2), 548 (5), 552, 554 (3), 555, 556, 557 (2), 559, 561 (6), 562, 576 (2), 578, 579, 581, 585 (2), 587 (2), 592, 604 (2), 611, 615, 617 (2), 619 (2), 621, 622 (2), 623, 624 (2), 625 (2), 626, 627, 632 (2), 633 (2), 634, 636, 638, 641 (3), 646 (5), 647, 650, 657 (2), 658 (3), 662 (3), 669, 679, 686, 692, 693, 699, 702, 703 (7), 711, 712, 724, 726 1979 TOPPS 1 (4), 4 (2), 20, 23, 29, 39 (2), 51 (2), 54 (9), 59, 63 (2), 67 (2), 68, 77, 78, 85, 97, 104 (2), 130 (2), 137, 154 (5), 179, 218, 241, 243 (2), 247 (6), 279, 303 (6), 327 (4),356, 405, 406, 408 (3), 418 (9), 429 (2), 455 (2), 461 (3), 468 (3), 470 (2), 528 (4), 531, 533, 564 (3), 580, 605 (16), 634, 642 (3), 645 (3), 653 (6), 656, 670 (2), 671 (3), 676, 683 (6), 684 (2), 686 (4), 691 (7), 710 (3) 1980 TOPPS 12 (36), 15 (7), 16 (2), 32 (2), 33, 34 (37), 35 (3), 36 (4), 47, 51 (6), 68, 72 (5), 76, 84 (2), 87 (2), 93 (3), 102 (5), 108, 114 (4), 138, 142, 145 (3), 158 (50), 174 (4), 179 (3), 183 (12), 184 (2), 211 (7), 246 (2), 255 (8), 263 (2), 264 (4), 271, 284 (41), 286, 314, 317 (4), 325 (3), 327 (5), 355 (2), 373 (5), 377, 379 (3), 387 (5), 390 (2), 394, 397, 399 (5), 412 (2), 418 (4), 425, 430 (9), 456, 459 (3), 462 (34), 469, 471 (2), 473, 480, 486 (3), 489 (5), 491 (3), 494, 502 (8), 504 (4), 513, 527 (13), 530 (3), 538, 541 (3), 549 (4), 558 (4), 566 (4), 572 (10), 575, 585 (2), 586 (2), 589, 597, 602, 603 (5), 606, 611, 614 (2), 618 (3), 621, 622, 623 (3), 624, 627, 628, 632, 634, 641, 642 (3), 649, 654 (2), 657, 665 (2), 666 (3), 670, 675 (3), 678 (3), 680, 687 (5), 692 (2), 695 (2), 711, 714 (2), 717 (44), 718 FOOTBALL DUPES: 1972 TOPPS 1, 2, 3, 5 (2), 9, 16, 23, 24, 25, 26, 32, 33, 44, 45, 47, 48, 50, 53, 54, 59, 64, 75, 76, 82, 87, 92, 94, 115, 118, 130, 149, 178, 223 1973 TOPPS 1976 TOPPS 21 (2), 32, 36, 37, 43 (2), 57, 79, 81, 112, 163, 165 (3), 189 (2), 263 (2), 276, 279, 280, 292 (2), 293 (2), 367 1977 TOPPS 25, 141, 157, 174, 200, 239, 246, 270, 275, 315, 336, 345, 412, 468, 525 1978 TOPPS 102, 122, 210, 251, 323, 347, 498 1979 TOPPS 68, 235, 490, 503, 505, 511, 512, 516, 526 ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Help needed completing a trade Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:16:05 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" I am trying to trade with someone who is looking for lots of Topps Team cards from the 70s. I only have a couple of these so I need more to meet my end of the deal. Please write me if you want the team names and I'll get back to you ASAP. Thanks! 1970-1 436 501 509 522 534 549 579 593 608 637 657 676 696 713 1971-1 268 289 308 336 354 386 402 442 482 543 624 641 652 674 698 722 742 1972-237 282 326 362 381 454 487 522 547 582 617 651 668 688 731 771 1973-7 127 191 316 347 481 521 556 576 596 629 641 654 1974-211 281 314 ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Big News.... Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:28:36 -0500 From: "Gonzalez, Ignacio Alberto" Howdy Gang, I have a very big announcement to make (at least its "big" for me)!!! No, No, it's not that I have a gay uncle/relative or anything like that ("not that there is anything wrong with it..."). But over the Xmas holidays, I joined the ranks of OBCers who pass the THRESHOLD. That's right, I finally went under the Topps 1952-1980 1,000 card to go threshold. Sensational news -- isn't it???? Obviously, I never thought I would make it this far (at least not in one lifetime). But here I stand, and can tell you, that I only have a measly/paltry 990 cards to go. When I first joined OBC, one of the first ramblings I remember reading was by Jeff Sackman (Mr. PSA1 to the ebay crowd). He waxed-eloquently about passing the threshold on that day. I looked at all the empty spots in my binders and my small collection of roughly 75 1952-59 Topps cards and said to self, "Mr Iggy, don't even dream about that milestone". But boys and girl --- dreams can come true... When I first passed the threshold, I called my wife over and tried (the best I could) to explain what an incredible achievement this was, but alas, I'm not quite sure she shared my enthusiasm. So that is where you guys and gal --- come in. I hereby raise a toast within OBCLand to my milestone, no explanation is needed to the significance, so here is my toast ---"To the countless OBCers who have helped along the way, THANK YOU!!! -- may the "gods of time and ebay" one day deliver you from the clushes of 4 digits (1000, 2000, 3000 to go) and into the realm of 3 digit improbability." One last ramble, before "enough is said". I do have one slight dilemma??? Who should ultimately get credit for bringing me under 1,000 cards???? Geno Wagner or Ed Schott??? On the 24th of Dec, I was exactly at 1,000 cards to go. On that date, I was nervously awaiting the mail, when lo-and-behold I received 2 envelopes, one from Geno and another from Ed. I opened Geno's cards first, so technically, once I had the cards in my sweaty hands, I knew I was under 1,000. But roughly 10 minutes later, I placed Ed's cards in the binder before Geno's, so for prosperity, at that very moment (10 minutes later) I was officially under 1,000. To complicate matters, both envelopes were post-marked Dec 17th, and for those that believe in numerology both Geno's and Ed's last name have 6 letters. Now, I know the simple answer is to give both guys credit. But then, I would still have to figure-out which one of them should get the asterick? And we all know that history has not been kind to Mr. Frick with his Maris - Ruth fiasco. So from my standpoint, giving both guys credit ultimately leaves me back to square one. There has to be a solution, there has to be a moment of exhilaration. So I now seek the wisdom of the tribe elders, who will hopefully enlighten me.... -Lovely Day, Iggy... -Lovely Day, Iggy... ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:42:25 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" Congrats on reaching triple digits. Isn't there some kind of MOD-9 formula you can use to break the tie between Geno and Ed? You could add up the number of letters in their names plus the digits of their zip codes plus the date the cards arrived....... -Bob R. p.s. I also went under the 1000 milestone earlier this month. My total is down to 959 so I'd like to thank all OBC'ers as well. Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 13:03:21 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" It looks like Iggy is just going to have to send out TWO '52 Mantles... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gonzalez, Ignacio Alberto" To: Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 12:28 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... > Howdy Gang, > I have a very big announcement to make (at least its "big" for me)!!! > No, No, it's not that I have a gay uncle/relative or anything like that > ("not that there is anything wrong with it..."). But over the Xmas > holidays, I joined the ranks of OBCers who pass the THRESHOLD. That's > right, I finally went under the Topps 1952-1980 1,000 card to go > Sensational news -- isn't it???? Obviously, I never thought I would make > this far (at least not in one lifetime). But here I stand, and can tell > you, that I only have a measly/paltry 990 cards to go. When I first > OBC, one of the first ramblings I remember reading was by Jeff Sackman > PSA1 to the ebay crowd). He waxed-eloquently about passing the threshold > that day. I looked at all the empty spots in my binders and my small > collection of roughly 75 1952-59 Topps cards and said to self, "Mr Iggy, > don't even dream about that milestone". But boys and girl --- dreams can > come true... > When I first passed the threshold, I called my wife over and tried > best I could) to explain what an incredible achievement this was, but > I'm not quite sure she shared my enthusiasm. So that is where you guys > gal --- come in. I hereby raise a toast within OBCLand to my milestone, > no explanation is needed to the significance, so here is my toast ---"To > countless OBCers who have helped along the way, THANK YOU!!! -- may the > "gods of time and ebay" one day deliver you from the clushes of 4 digits > (1000, 2000, 3000 to go) and into the realm of 3 digit improbability." > One last ramble, before "enough is said". I do have one slight > dilemma??? Who should ultimately get credit for bringing me under 1,000 > cards???? Geno Wagner or Ed Schott??? On the 24th of Dec, I was exactly > 1,000 cards to go. On that date, I was nervously awaiting the mail, when > lo-and-behold I received 2 envelopes, one from Geno and another from Ed. > opened Geno's cards first, so technically, once I had the cards in my > hands, I knew I was under 1,000. But roughly 10 minutes later, I placed > Ed's cards in the binder before Geno's, so for prosperity, at that very > moment (10 minutes later) I was officially under 1,000. To complicate > matters, both envelopes were post-marked Dec 17th, and for those that > believe in numerology both Geno's and Ed's last name have 6 letters. > Now, I know the simple answer is to give both guys credit. But then, > would still have to figure-out which one of them should get the asterick? > And we all know that history has not been kind to Mr. Frick with his Maris - > Ruth fiasco. So from my standpoint, giving both guys credit ultimately > leaves me back to square one. There has to be a solution, there has to be > moment of exhilaration. So I now seek the wisdom of the tribe elders, who > will hopefully enlighten me.... > -Lovely Day, Iggy... > -Lovely Day, Iggy... > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 16:34:23 EST Subject: Ref. Big News or one woman's determination To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- i read where some of you traders have less than 1,000 cards to complete your topps run of sets- my goal is a little simplier- and it is the same one as when i started collecting cards- Complete the 1952 topps Set-sure i have added a few other sets to my want list but these are just a diversion for me-my main set and the cards i love are 52 topps-and i don't care how long it takes me to complete the set by bidding on and buying low grade beaters- i'm gonna DO IT- it has gotten down to where i need these 4,370,373,376,377,381,382,383,384,385,387,389,390,391,395,397,398,403,and i know what is going to be that final card- # 407( i just know that one is going to be the last one in my quest!)it has taken me 16 years to get down to these..36 cards to go and thank god that 311 ISN"T ONE OF THEM_=yes i got that one- and it is always going to be my favorite baseball card- wasn't there a poll earlier- what's your favorite baseball card you own- that is an easy one for me - my creased beat up 311. Linda ================= To: "ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:26:10 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" I remember getting under 1000, and it was all OBC! When I started counting, I was over 3000! Today Steve R landed a whopper on me... a '66 G.Perry with corners that are pretty square, just really layered :) Anyway, I count my in units of 25 now, because I am so close, it takes forever to move down 100. Steve's generosity brings me to 274! (then, I actually discovered that I had one on short '66 list that wasn't marked off, so I'm really at 273, but Steve still gets the credit, as does all of OBC... hey, wait, I was in parens and I slipped out without closing them! Oh well. Thanks Steve, and enjoy your problem Iggy! At 1000, you would I could find a hit for you! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geno Wagner" To: ; "Gonzalez, Ignacio Alberto" Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... > It looks like Iggy is just going to have to send out TWO '52 Mantles... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gonzalez, Ignacio Alberto" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 12:28 PM > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... > > Howdy Gang, > > > > I have a very big announcement to make (at least its "big" for > > No, No, it's not that I have a gay uncle/relative or anything like that > > ("not that there is anything wrong with it..."). But over the Xmas > > holidays, I joined the ranks of OBCers who pass the THRESHOLD. That's > > right, I finally went under the Topps 1952-1980 1,000 card to go > threshold. > > Sensational news -- isn't it???? Obviously, I never thought I would > it > > this far (at least not in one lifetime). But here I stand, and can tell > > you, that I only have a measly/paltry 990 cards to go. When I first > joined > > OBC, one of the first ramblings I remember reading was by Jeff Sackman > (Mr. > > PSA1 to the ebay crowd). He waxed-eloquently about passing the > on > > that day. I looked at all the empty spots in my binders and my small > > collection of roughly 75 1952-59 Topps cards and said to self, "Mr Iggy, > > don't even dream about that milestone". But boys and girl --- dreams > > come true... > > > > When I first passed the threshold, I called my wife over and tried > (the > > best I could) to explain what an incredible achievement this was, but > alas, > > I'm not quite sure she shared my enthusiasm. So that is where you guys > and > > gal --- come in. I hereby raise a toast within OBCLand to my > > no explanation is needed to the significance, so here is my toast ---"To > the > > countless OBCers who have helped along the way, THANK YOU!!! -- may the > > "gods of time and ebay" one day deliver you from the clushes of 4 digits > > (1000, 2000, 3000 to go) and into the realm of 3 digit improbability." > > > > > > One last ramble, before "enough is said". I do have one slight > > dilemma??? Who should ultimately get credit for bringing me under 1,000 > > cards???? Geno Wagner or Ed Schott??? On the 24th of Dec, I was > at > > 1,000 cards to go. On that date, I was nervously awaiting the mail, > > lo-and-behold I received 2 envelopes, one from Geno and another from Ed. > I > > opened Geno's cards first, so technically, once I had the cards in my > sweaty > > hands, I knew I was under 1,000. But roughly 10 minutes later, I placed > > Ed's cards in the binder before Geno's, so for prosperity, at that very > > moment (10 minutes later) I was officially under 1,000. To complicate > > matters, both envelopes were post-marked Dec 17th, and for those that > > believe in numerology both Geno's and Ed's last name have 6 letters. > > > > Now, I know the simple answer is to give both guys credit. But > I > > would still have to figure-out which one of them should get the > > And we all know that history has not been kind to Mr. Frick with his > Maris - > > Ruth fiasco. So from my standpoint, giving both guys credit ultimately > > leaves me back to square one. There has to be a solution, there has to > a > > moment of exhilaration. So I now seek the wisdom of the tribe elders, > > will hopefully enlighten me.... > > > > -Lovely Day, Iggy... > > > > > > -Lovely Day, Iggy... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:38:47 EST Subject: pay pal novice To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com Over a year ago I used pay pal to pay a seller at an auction. I recently sold a card at an auction, and winning bidder says that he paid my pay pal account (which I had forgotten I had). Can somebody tell me how I can verify if my pay pal account received funds? ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:44:26 EST Subject: Bob Bard To: vct@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com Has anyone traded with Bob Bard? ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:39:23 -0500 (EST) To: jdelott@aol.com, vct@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Bob Bard From: Neal Thomas I have a few times (with a trade presently in the mail). Never had a problem at all. He seems to be a good trader. ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: jdelott@aol.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Bob Bard Date: 12/28/2001 05:44pm Has anyone traded with Bob Bard? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:05:55 EST Subject: ebay outbid blues To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- ever want some cards really bad on ebay and somebody keeps outbidding you to the point it is way more than the item is worth and you wonder WHY somebody keeps outbidding you- well it is happening to me- this is one of those oddball sets i would really like to have- Does anyone have any cards from this set- ?? ref ebay # 1053744033= i have never seen this set on ebay before or at any show or card shop- i can't even find this set in the big SCD book but this is sure one set of cards i would like to have.if that guy wants it i am going to bid him through the roof for it because i want it too- this is some card set- i may never see one for sale again- Linda ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:32:54 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] pay pal novice To: JDelott@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com You probably should have gotten an email from paypal notifying you that you received a payment. The only sure way is to go to the paypal website and on your main account page there will be a transaction record which should show ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] ebay outbid blues Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:27:21 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" My guess is that it was just distributed locally (minn). You might try asking the seller. He may even have more of these sets. I tride to look for the company on the web, but I gave up pretty quickly. You could try calling or emailing other dealers in the same area. You may well be able to find the set for next to nothing, rather than $2/card. If it was printed in 1987, ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] ebay outbid blues > hi- this is Linda- ever want some cards really bad on ebay and somebody > outbidding you to the point it is way more than the item is worth and you > wonder WHY somebody keeps outbidding you- well it is happening to me- this > one of those oddball sets i would really like to have- Does anyone have > cards from this set- ?? ref ebay # 1053744033= i have never seen this set > ebay before or at any show or card shop- i can't even find this set in the > big SCD book but this is sure one set of cards i would like to have.if > guy wants it i am going to bid him through the roof for it because i want > too- this is some card set- i may never see one for sale again- Linda > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:40:28 EST Subject: No Subject To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: XTrJmx@aol.com Hi all... having a fantastic Christmas break out east. Finally have a little time to catch up and get a few cards sent out. Unfortunately, I have very limited internet access, so I can't get out to folks' wantlists. Thus, I just want to offer up some cards to anyone who wants 'em. Take one or many... no reciprocation needed. An address would be appreciated, as it would help me immediately prepare mail-out. Take care and an early Happy New Year to all... Older cards--most in VG, some better, quite a few worse... just ask if you are condition-conscious: 1961 Topps: #163 (Sadowski, Angels) #183 (Andre Rodgers, Braves) #273(4th Series CL - marked) 1963 Topps: #86 (Charley Maxwell, White Sox -- severe back damage) 1964 Topps: #31 (Dave Nicholson, White Sox) #42 (Moe Drabowsky, A's) #68 (Willie Davis, Dodgers) #114 (Don Lock, Senators) 1965 Topps: #86 (Les Narum, Senators, x3) #87 (Nelson Mathews, A's, x3) 1966 Topps #43 (Don Landrum, Cubs) #52 (Power Plus, Wes Covington and Johnny Callison, Phillies) #101 (Second Series Checklist, x1 marked, x3 unmarked) #147 (Lum Harris, Astros) #183 (Third Series Checklist, x1 marked, x1 unmarked) #355 (Wade Blasingame, Braves) #476 (Bobby Bragan, Braves) 1967 Topps: #13 (Joe Sparma, Tigers) #278 (4th Series Checklist, marked -- has Jim Kaat of the Twins on front) 1968 Topps: #116 (Ken McMullen, Senators) 1969 Topps: #14 (Al McBean, Padres) #38 (Zoilo Versalles, Padres) #61 (Jimmie Hall, Indians) #74 (Preston Gomez, Padres) #92 (Jack Billingham, Expos) #412 (5th Series Checklist, Mantle on front) 1970 Topps: #345 (Al Ferrara, Padres, x2) 1971 Topps: #'s 9 (George Scott) 57 63 (AL RBI Ldrs Howard/Conigliaro/Powell, x2) 69 (AL Pitching Ldrs Cuellar/McNally/Perry, x2) 108(x3) 145(x2) 209 228 253 353 1972 Topps: #173 254 390 1973 Topps: #16 98 135 148(x4) 214 229 313 492 1975 Topps: #25 283(x2) 1976 Topps Traded: #74T 85T 338T(x2) 380T 410T(x2) 434T 1977 Topps: #505 (Oscar Gamble, Yankees) 1978 Topps: #231 244 248 249(x3) 250(Graig Nettles, Yankees) 500(George Foster, Reds) 1979 Topps: #77 ================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 00:30:08 -0500 To: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] ebay outbid blues From: Mark S Talbot I'd wait this one out Linda, Check with dealers Toudot or Henderson (not my favorite) - they are from that area and may have it - FOR A LOT LESS!!!! Be Well!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * jazzgirl1920s@aol.com wrote: > hi- this is Linda- ever want some cards really bad on ebay and somebody keeps > outbidding you to the point it is way more than the item is worth and you > wonder WHY somebody keeps outbidding you- well it is happening to me- this is > one of those oddball sets i would really like to have- Does anyone have any > cards from this set- ?? ref ebay # 1053744033= i have never seen this set on > ebay before or at any show or card shop- i can't even find this set in the > big SCD book but this is sure one set of cards i would like to have.if that > guy wants it i am going to bid him through the roof for it because i want it > too- this is some card set- i may never see one for sale again- Linda > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 01:47:20 -0500 To: dsh46@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: 1976 Hostess Question From: Mark S Talbot Thanks for the clarification Big Dave!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * dsh46@aol.com wrote: > hey ho: > 1976 Hostess cards come in either brown or black ink variations. The brown > ink is a little scarcer. > Dave > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:27:47 EST Subject: Re: Big News.... To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated 12/29/01 8:46:36 AM, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com writes: << There has to be a solution, there has to be a moment of exhilaration. So I now seek the wisdom of the tribe elders, who will hopefully enlighten me.... >> OK, I don't want to rain on Iggy's parade, but there IS a solution to the problem. He should consider the fact that technically he hasn't MADE IT to the 1000 card plateau - if you add in the 1951 Topps red and blue back sets. That's 104 more cards (or 106 if you add in the two variations like I did ) Perhaps the honor is back up in the air...? Ken M - now if only I can dig up 100 cards on Iggy's list right now... :-) ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: 1,000 Card Mark and Collecting Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:52:20 -0600 From: "George Vrechek" I enjoyed the recent ramblings regarding getting down to 1,000 cards. It isfun to collect and keep track of progress. However have you ever heard a collector say "I've completed collecting all the cards (stamps, coins, beer cans....) that I was looking for and now I am finished?" Not likely becausewe keep going - looking for more sets, obscure sets, variations or upgrades. For example I counted something like 850 variations and inserts just in the 1950s cards alone. (If you are interested in how I came up with this number, I have attached a story I wrote for SCD on the subject.) As Phil Jackson wrote in "Hoop Dreams" it is all about the journey of getting there. We should enjoy making the effort. Another random rambling: It is interesting that we are probably more familiar with our doubles than singles. If you "finish" a set, you aren't back very frequently looking at the set. Doubles you check frequently to see who may need them, etc. George Vrechek ================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 00:03:22 -0500 (EST) To: srittenberg66@earthlink.net Subject: Holiday thanks and a ramble From: Jerry Coker > Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:00:35 -0500 > From: "Steve Rittenberg" > Subject: Holiday thanks and a ramble > Actually as much "rambling" than "thanks" > I didn't participate in the OBC Santa swap but I've enjoyed reading >about those who did. To make up for my lack of participation, I figured >the best thing I could do was to send out cards to as many people as >possible. About 40 envelopes have gone out in the last couple of days. >I want to try to hit another 30 people by New Years. I'm not trying to Steve...anyone thats ever met you knows you don't gloat :) I remember when I first met you @ the Atlanta National (my first National). You started handing me cards from Bill Henderson's bargain bin that you had been pulling bc you knew they were good deals. And I know you were pulling them originally for yours and most likely someone elses list! > Though we are all > very > different, I hope that if everyone at least gets some cards in > the mail, > they will feel like they are "part of the family". Amen. I'm a hard person to get to know, but I am definately getting that 'family' feeling with OBC. I've been a member for 3 years now (I think ;). Sending all the cards I sent the last 2 months has made me feel real good. And I'm anxious to send some more real soon. And reading the 'Thanks' and 'Ramblings' makes me feel good too. The recent remarks that caused some controversy are rare, but those things happen. We are human beings. I haven't met many OBC'ers, but those that I have are real down-to-earth people. I think most of us share a few common things, which is a bit hard to describe. But I'll try. I think it is first, a common need/desire to remember our childhood, when we were young and carefree. Second, a love for remembering our first, and, the many other baseball games we saw and/or played in as youngsters. And third, a love for old things to remind us of those wonderful chilhood days...in our case baseball cards, memoribilia, etc. I might add that some of us dream of the what it must have been like to play or watch baseball in the many era's it has been played. Maybe I'm wrong about part of this. But that's the way *I* feel. Every time I get a baseball card from OBC it takes me back in time. I love that feeling. Particularly in these sometimes stressful days we live in. I need that > I've had an evolving goal over the past year or two to try to make OBC > a stronger community. I have my own ideas about what could be done > but I want to start polling others to find out how they can feel a > stronger connection. I'd like to hear your ideas! I'd me willing to share mine. > At this point in my life, contact with OBCers is > more or > less the only socialization in my life so I need to make sure OBC stays > strong and grows stronger. OBC is a very important part of my life as well. Particularly right now. In the past, I've tended to come and go as far as participation (throughout the year), but it is always only because of family and work committments. The work obgligations can really suck my time, but...I have to keep a roof over our heads (sheeze...that sounds so cliche'). Steve, I remember a while back you said something about being an OBC 'scout' or something. Scout for hire ;) Finding cards for people's wantlists for a living, I think. What a cool job that certainly would be :) > Thanks to everyone for being part of my OBC family. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Jerry Coker Computer Network Support Career Services Center University of Georgia ================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 09:56:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... From: Erik & Leticia Greenwood Congratulations. I am several thousand away from completing the run. Some point in the future I will reference the time Iggy broke the 1000 card barrier, and I will convey the same feeling of never believing I could get to that point. Out of curiosity, how would you say you accumulated your collection. OBC, dealers, shows, online auctions? Almost all of my collection has come from packs, OBC, and online auctions. I for one have been amazed at the generosity of my fellow OBC members. What a great group of people. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gonzalez, Ignacio Alberto" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 12:28 PM > > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Big News.... > > > > > > > Howdy Gang, > > > > > > I have a very big announcement to make (at least its "big" for > me)!!! > > > No, No, it's not that I have a gay uncle/relative or anything like that > > > ("not that there is anything wrong with it..."). But over the Xmas > > > holidays, I joined the ranks of OBCers who pass the THRESHOLD. That's > > > right, I finally went under the Topps 1952-1980 1,000 card to go > > threshold. > > > Sensational news -- isn't it???? Obviously, I never thought I would > make > > it > > > this far (at least not in one lifetime). But here I stand, and can tell > > > you, that I only have a measly/paltry 990 cards to go. When I first > > joined > > > OBC, one of the first ramblings I remember reading was by Jeff Sackman > > (Mr. > > > PSA1 to the ebay crowd). He waxed-eloquently about passing the > threshold > > on > > > that day. I looked at all the empty spots in my binders and my small > > > collection of roughly 75 1952-59 Topps cards and said to self, "Mr Iggy, > > > don't even dream about that milestone". But boys and girl --- dreams > can > > > come true... > > > > > > When I first passed the threshold, I called my wife over and tried > > (the > > > best I could) to explain what an incredible achievement this was, but > > alas, > > > I'm not quite sure she shared my enthusiasm. So that is where you guys > > and > > > gal --- come in. I hereby raise a toast within OBCLand to my > milestone, > > > no explanation is needed to the significance, so here is my toast ---"To > > the > > > countless OBCers who have helped along the way, THANK YOU!!! -- may the > > > "gods of time and ebay" one day deliver you from the clushes of 4 digits > > > (1000, 2000, 3000 to go) and into the realm of 3 digit improbability." > > > > > > > > > One last ramble, before "enough is said". I do have one slight > > > dilemma??? Who should ultimately get credit for bringing me under 1,000 > > > cards???? Geno Wagner or Ed Schott??? On the 24th of Dec, I was > exactly > > at > > > 1,000 cards to go. On that date, I was nervously awaiting the mail, > when > > > lo-and-behold I received 2 envelopes, one from Geno and another from Ed. > > I > > > opened Geno's cards first, so technically, once I had the cards in my > > sweaty > > > hands, I knew I was under 1,000. But roughly 10 minutes later, I placed > > > Ed's cards in the binder before Geno's, so for prosperity, at that very > > > moment (10 minutes later) I was officially under 1,000. To complicate > > > matters, both envelopes were post-marked Dec 17th, and for those that > > > believe in numerology both Geno's and Ed's last name have 6 letters. > > > > > > Now, I know the simple answer is to give both guys credit. But > then, > > I > > > would still have to figure-out which one of them should get the > asterick? > > > And we all know that history has not been kind to Mr. Frick with his > > Maris - > > > Ruth fiasco. So from my standpoint, giving both guys credit ultimately > > > leaves me back to square one. There has to be a solution, there has to > be > > a > > > moment of exhilaration. So I now seek the wisdom of the tribe elders, > who > > > will hopefully enlighten me.... > > > > > > -Lovely Day, Iggy... > > > > > > > > > -Lovely Day, Iggy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Fw: A few Yanks Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:49:53 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Fellas -- If you have any sixties Yankees in your dupes box, give Tiger Dave a jingle. I sent him a few extras a couple of weeks ago and got some nice cards inreturn. One is a Deckle-looking Boog Powell, but I'm not sure what it is.He said it is an OPC insert of some type - I'll have to pull out the Big Book and have a look. If you want to trade with him, click his name in themessage Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: tigerdave To: Geno Wagner Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: Re: A few Yanks I believe it is an OPC insert Canadian card. Geno. Happy new year to you and if you get time spread the word to other OBC members of my quest for older Yankees. thanks again. ----- Original Message ----- From: Geno Wagner To: tigerdave Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 1:08 PM Subject: Re: A few Yanks Dave -- Thanks - I got the cards today! I hope you were happy with yours. By the way, what is the Boog Powell with the scalloped edges? I have a few deckle edge cards, but they look different than this one. Thanks again! ----- Original Message ----- From: tigerdave To: Geno Wagner Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:36 PM Subject: Re: A few Yanks sounds great Geno. Let me know what you are interested in . And I will send something to you as well. My address is David Murray 711 Omineca Ave Port Coquitlam, B.C. V3B 7N9 thanks again and Merry Christmas ----- Original Message ----- From: Geno Wagner To: tigerdave@shaw.ca Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: A few Yanks Tiger Dave -- Hello! My name is Geno Wagner. I've been in OBC for about six yearsor so and have heard about you numerous times, always in a positive light.I saw that you were looking for a few Yankees, so I looked through my boxand found a few from 1965: 2 Jim Boutons 2 Tony Kubeks 1 Bouton World Series 1 Stottlemyre World Series If you are interested in them, I'll send them along. If you want to keep them you can just check out my list at the OBC website and send something in return. Let me know if you want me to send them and gve me your address... Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:41:58 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Antique/Card Shop From: "larryobc" Spent my birthday visiting antique shops in St Augustine today. Had a nice lunch and enjoyed a glorius day at the beach. One antique shop had some baseball cards including a handful of 1952 Topps cards for $1 each so I bought all of those. Pick up a few others to pass along. These cards are available please ask: 1951 Bowman #101 #114 #179 1951 Topps Blue back #42(Dodger Bruce Edwards) 1952 Topps #103 #134(Joe Tipton) #139 #143 #143 #148 #149 #237#246 1954 Bowman #61 #116 #194 1961 Topps #361 1962 Topps #558 #565 1964 Topps #580 1966 Topps #465 #482 #487 Gee, Guru has some doubles! ================= To: Subject: WEST COAST MEETING Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:12:40 -0600 From: "David Kolenda" A trip to LA this week, produced a west coast mini obc gathering. Got to see Peter Iversen, Geno Wagner, Josh Levine, and Ron Perry (who was also in town). These were members I meet up with before. Many of them a number of times. Pat Sweeney and Linda Fitak were also there. They increased the number of members I've meet to 43. We got to spend about 2 1/2 hours together. Swaped some cards, talked obc talk, and promised to do it again when the chance comes around. Need to thank all who found some cards off my list. It's off to the wantlist to knock a few off thanks to the guys and gal on the left side of the country. David K. I GOT UM, YOU NEED UM, YOU GET UM. ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Big News.... Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 22:54:16 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" What about the 16 '51 topps team cards? And what about the Connie Mac All-Stars? Where do you draw the line? Aren't there some baseball in that '48 set topps put out? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Big News.... > In a message dated 12/29/01 8:46:36 AM, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > << There has to be a solution, there has to be a > moment of exhilaration. So I now seek the wisdom of the tribe elders, who > will hopefully enlighten me.... >> > OK, I don't want to rain on Iggy's parade, but there IS a solution to the > problem. He should consider the fact that technically he hasn't MADE IT to > the 1000 card plateau - if you add in the 1951 Topps red and blue back > That's 104 more cards (or 106 if you add in the two variations like I did > ) Perhaps the honor is back up in the air...? > Ken M - now if only I can dig up 100 cards on Iggy's list right now... :-) > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:53:27 EST Subject: T-205 End of Year Back Stats To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, prewartraders@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com A little more research for you to ponder.... As I seem to be getting closer and closer to finishing my t-205 set (less than 33 to go now!) the research is getting more in depth (not to mention I have invested just over 5 years on the set. As most of you know I have been totally consumed by the backs of t-205s for some time now. In the last research notice I had recently talked to some prominent vintage dealers including tik and tik, kit young cards, and lew lipsett. Not to mention gathering some info from some older magazines and reports (including vbbc, encyclopedia of baseball cards, and back issues of scd). Not to mention just talking with other t-205 collectors and dealers. Here is the latest research... Some asides before the meaty stuff... There are NOT two colors of Polar Bear backs. There are two colors of American Beauty backs--green and black. The Joss comes in at least four backs...I had not seen a Piedmont Joss until this year...most were Polar Bear, Hassan, and Honest. Broadleaf does come in two colors--black and brown. The Moran with the stray line (which is the last line of type from the Mattern card) and the Gray with stats are incredibly tough to find and do not have a high enough premium as yet (although the Moran is close). The Ciccote is too darn expensive for what it is (I KNOW he was a black sox, but sheesh, his card should not be more than a Wheat or Tinker!!) First...let us look at my near complete set's back population report. ( It has changed only slightly since I only added 18 cards since my last research Piedmont 47 Polar Bear 35 Hassan 25 Honest Long Cut 22 Sweet Cap Red 21 Sweet Cap Black 18 Soverign 14 Cycle 5 American Beauty-green- 2 American Beauty-black-3 Broadleaf black 2 Broadleaf brown 1 Hindu 1 Drum 1 197 Total cards. Now this may be misleading...the t-205 set is rare in that certain cards only come with certain backs. All minor leaugers come only with a hassan or polar bear back. So, over the last year (12-25-2000 to 12-29-2001 I kept a tally of only common cards being sold on ebay, yahoo, shows and local shops and some of the more prominent online auctions (Mike Wheat, CSA, Mastro, etc.)...here is that population report. Remember...this does not include the rarer short prints or minor leaugers (Graham and Shean only come with two backs, Joss with four, among other odd back variations which will be discussed in another e-mail along with factory designations which I am working on as well). Only commons and common stars (meaning cards like Tinker, Evers, Wheat, Collins mouth closed, Breshnahan mouth closed, etc.---not the Collins mouth open, etc.) Piedmont 406 Sweet Cap Red 193 Polar Bear 191 Sweet Cap Black 187 Honest Long Cut 179 Hassan 111 Soverign 70 Cycle 31 American Beauty black 17 Broadleaf brown 9 American Beauty green 9 Broadleaf black 8 Hindu 5 Drum 1 Total 1417 common cards. I think this is more accurate. And a little disturbing when you look at price guides and dealer selling points. Most sources list Piedmont correctly as the most common. No arguments there. Then they list the Sweet Cap cards as second most but they do not split them into two colors (if they do not split them, Sweet Cap then takes over the second most common spot). But when you split them into the two distinct groups, something happens. The Honest Long Cut and Polar Bear backs jumps to third. Most dealers put a very small premium on the Honest back and a decent sized premium on the Polar Bear. I feel that this should not be the case. There is large problem with the price guides and dealers selling polar bear backs. In the T-205 set, Polar Bear is much more common than in the T-206 set. In fact most guides and dealers set a 10-30% premium on the T-205 Polar Bear Back. I think this is way off base. I would venture to say at most a 10% premium could be charged. Polar Bear is much more common than the other rare backs in the set. Hassan is tough to find. Commons are tough to find with this back. In my set, Soverign is more common but in the wider report, it seems that it is as rare as the guides and dealers think. Cycle and American Beauty are comparable. Both are rare. Both are tough. Although, again, if you split the American Beauty backs into colors, they become as rare as Broadleaf. Now the Broadleaf backs are fairly tough as well. There is a convention that the black one is slightly rarer but it seems from my set and report that they are about equal. Broadleaf often gets the same premium as a hindu but I feel that this should not happen. I have seen many broadleafs (at least 13) and nearly no Hindus. Speaking of Hindu, these are rarer than their t-206 counterparts. I have seen 100% premium charged for this and I think that is accurate and maybe a little conservative. In fact, only two Hindu commons have been on ebay in the last year, and only about six commons in the all the sales and auctions I have seen for the past two years. Now the Drum...up until 1984, Drum was theorized and rumored but was not truely found until 1985 when one went up for public auction. Even then, some people thought it a reprint or fake. In 1990, Drum brand backs were found in a very small stash in New York (less than 20). In late 1993 another small stash was found in the South (about 5). I have only seen one common Drum for sale in the last two years. A common (Tannehill if I recall) that actually went for about 7 times book value (700% markup). I actually feel that this is accurate and was a slight bargain. The card was beat to death and still drew four figures. Now, I am not professional researcher but I think the above is fairly accurate. Some cards get resold, or relisted if not sold, I try to make sure I am not listing cards twice and I think I do okay with this. BTW, for any one week during the year there are about 15-20 T-205s for sale on ebay. PS Just for fun...below is my current wantlist for T-205s (and I do have a Wiltse one ear variaiton--one of the toughest--for trade bait :-): T-205 NEEDS: Batch(ML), Bransfield, Breshnahan (mouth open,R,HOF), Chase(both ears,border stops at shoulders), Cicotte, E. Collins(mouth closed,HOF), Collins(ML), Dahlen(R), Donahue(R), Duffy(HOF), Elberfeld, Fisher, Ford(light cap,R), Grant(R), Gray(w/ stats), Hoblitzell(no stats,R!), Hoblitzell(no "Cin" after 1908), Hoffman, Jacklitsch, D. Jones, Kleinow, Leifield(just "A" on front), Nee(ML), Schmidt, Shean(Cubs,R), Simmons, Stanage, Turner(R), Vaughn(R), Wagner(R), Wallace(no cap,1 line 1910 stats,HOF,R!), Walsh(HOF), ================= To: "Thanks" , Subject: Show report / thanks again to Jim and Andy! Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 02:33:22 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" For the second time this week, I had the pleasure of seeing Andy Cook and Jim Wiehe. And again they were overly generous to me. I met Jim halfwaybetween our homes and drove him down to a small show in Virginia. As we were walking in, Andy Cook is walking out. He tells me that he's left a great non-sport card and a SCANNER for me with a dealer we know. And though Andy has other things to do, he brought one of his albums with him for Jim and me to peruse. I've never seen so many strip cards all in one place! Andy knew all about printing and color variations and the differences among all the sets. He even knew which players were missing from his binder, without even looking at a list. Amazing! After Andy left, Jim and I went into the show. An unscheduled guest was there, Chuck Foreman of the Vikings, Jim's favorite football team [ after Nebraska ;-) ]. Jim decided to get an autograph but wanted it on something more interesting than the usual 8x10 glossy photo. Alas, our area failed him. No dealer at the show and none of the 7 places we visited outsidethe show had any Vikings merchandise for Jim. We got back just in time for Jim to get an 8x10 auto. After the show, I thought about taking Jim to a nearby card shop. I got arecommendation for a much better one but it proved to be disappointing. When we were told that this was "an old-style card shop", little did we know that it meant it was full of junk, the guys working there ignored us and they overcharged for everything. I took Jim back to my place and we decided to try to hit some of his team set wantlists. Very disappointing results. I bragged about all the cards I had and then had very little to show for it. Eventually I got hungry and tired and cranky but Jim was very polite the whole time. I tried tomake up for it by offering to help build some wantlists for him, utilizingmy experience with spreadsheets. Pretty soon Jim pointed out a ton of ways to do things better. But Jim was still very gracious about it. And when our trip to Kinko's to xerox some articles from the Wrapper ended up in failure, he even lent me his binder full of magazines so I could read them on my own. The Wrapper is a great magazine (not a price guide) devoted to non-sports. I can't wait to start reading them. Thanks again guys. ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 09:34:26 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats To: Wite3@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, From: amcook93@aol.com Thanks for sending out this research. I find this stuff really interesting and I bet others do too. ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 07:30:38 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Nice work Josh! Very interesting stuff! Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: Wite3@aol.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; prewartraders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats A little more research for you to ponder.... As I seem to be getting closer and closer to finishing my t-205 set (less than 33 to go now!) the research is getting more in depth (not to mentionI have invested just over 5 years on the set. As most of you know I have been totally consumed by the backs of t-205s for some time now. In the last research notice I had recently talked to someprominent vintage dealers including tik and tik, kit young cards, and lew lipsett. Not to mention gathering some info from some older magazines and reports (including vbbc, encyclopedia of baseball cards, and back issues of scd). Not to mention just talking with other t-205 collectors and dealers. Here is the latest research... Some asides before the meaty stuff... There are NOT two colors of Polar Bear backs. There are two colors of American Beauty backs--green and black. The Joss comes in at least four backs...I had not seen a Piedmont Joss until this year...most were Polar Bear, Hassan, and Honest. Broadleaf does come in two colors--black and brown. The Moran with the stray line (which is the last line of type from the Mattern card) and the Gray with stats are incredibly tough to find and do nothave a high enough premium as yet (although the Moran is close). The Ciccote is too darn expensive for what it is (I KNOW he was a black sox, but sheesh, his card should not be more than a Wheat or Tinker!!) First...let us look at my near complete set's back population report. ( It has changed only slightly since I only added 18 cards since my last research Piedmont 47 Polar Bear 35 Hassan 25 Honest Long Cut 22 Sweet Cap Red 21 Sweet Cap Black 18 Soverign 14 Cycle 5 American Beauty-green- 2 American Beauty-black-3 Broadleaf black 2 Broadleaf brown 1 Hindu 1 Drum 1 197 Total cards. Now this may be misleading...the t-205 set is rare in that certain cards only come with certain backs. All minor leaugers come only with a hassan or polar bear back. So, over the last year (12-25-2000 to 12-29-2001 I kept a tally of only common cards being sold on ebay, yahoo, shows and local shops and some of the more prominent online auctions (Mike Wheat, CSA, Mastro, etc.)...here isthat population report. Remember...this does not include the rarer short prints or minor leaugers (Graham and Shean only come with two backs, Joss with four, among other odd back variations which will be discussed in anothere-mail along with factory designations which I am working on as well). Only commons and common stars (meaning cards like Tinker, Evers, Wheat, Collins mouth closed, Breshnahan mouth closed, etc.---not the Collins mouth open,etc.) Piedmont 406 Sweet Cap Red 193 Polar Bear 191 Sweet Cap Black 187 Honest Long Cut 179 Hassan 111 Soverign 70 Cycle 31 American Beauty black 17 Broadleaf brown 9 American Beauty green 9 Broadleaf black 8 Hindu 5 Drum 1 Total 1417 common cards. I think this is more accurate. And a little disturbing when you look at price guides and dealer selling points. Most sources list Piedmont correctly asthe most common. No arguments there. Then they list the Sweet Cap cards as second most but they do not split them into two colors (if they do not split them, Sweet Cap then takes over the second most common spot). But when you split them into the two distinct groups, something happens. The Honest Long Cut and PolarBear backs jumps to third. Most dealers put a very small premium on the Honest back and a decent sized premium on the Polar Bear. I feel that this should not be the case. There is large problem with the price guides and dealers selling polar bear backs.In the T-205 set, Polar Bear is much more common than in the T-206 set. In fact most guides and dealers set a 10-30% premium on the T-205 Polar Bear Back. think this is way off base. I would venture to say at most a 10% premium could be charged. Polar Bear is much more common than the other rare backs the set. Hassan is tough to find. Commons are tough to find with this back. In my set, Soverign is more common but in the wider report, it seems that it isas rare as the guides and dealers think. Cycle and American Beauty are comparable. Both are rare. Both are tough. Although, again, if you split the American Beauty backs into colors, they become as rare as Broadleaf. Now the Broadleaf backs are fairly tough as well. There is a convention that the black one is slightly rarer but it seems from my set and report that they are about equal. Broadleaf often gets the same premium as a hindu but I feel that this should not happen. I have seen many broadleafs (at least 13) and nearly no Hindus. Speaking of Hindu, these are rarer than their t-206 counterparts. I have seen 100% premium charged for this and I think that is accurate and maybe a little conservative. In fact, only two Hindu commons have been on ebay in the last year, and only about six commons in the all the sales and auctions I have seen for the past two years. Now the Drum...up until 1984, Drum was theorized and rumored but was not truely found until 1985 when one went up for public auction. Even then, some people thought it a reprint or fake. In 1990, Drum brand backswere in a very small stash in New York (less than 20). In late 1993 another small stash was found in the South (about 5). I have only seen one common Drum for sale in the last two years. A common(Tannehill if I recall) that actually went for about 7 times book value (700% markup). I actually feel that this is accurate and was a slight bargain. The card was beat to death and still drew four figures. Now, I am not professional researcher but I think the above is fairly accurate. Some cards get resold, or relisted if not sold, I try to make sure Iam not listing cards twice and I think I do okay with this. BTW, for any one week during the year there are about 15-20 T-205s for sale on ebay. PS Just for fun...below is my current wantlist for T-205s (and I do have a Wiltse one ear variaiton--one of the toughest--for trade bait :-): T-205 NEEDS: Batch(ML), Bransfield, Breshnahan (mouth open,R,HOF), Chase(both ears,border stops at shoulders), Cicotte, E. Collins(mouth closed,HOF), Collins(ML), Dahlen(R), Donahue(R), Duffy(HOF), Elberfeld, Fisher, Ford(light cap,R), Grant(R), Gray(w/ stats), Hoblitzell(no stats,R!), Hoblitzell(no "Cin" after 1908), Hoffman, Jacklitsch, D. Jones, Kleinow, Leifield(just "A" on front), Nee(ML), Schmidt, Shean(Cubs,R), Simmons, Stanage, Vaughn(R), Wagner(R), Wallace(no cap,1 line 1910 stats,HOF,R!), Walsh(HOF), Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:13:48 EST Subject: T-206 back help To: prewartraders@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com Today, at a local show, I picked up a t-206 Liebhardt, Cleveland. Nice vg-ex t-206. What interested me was the back...it is a Sweet Caporal 150 back with the factory overprint. I have seen several Sweet Cap 350 overprints but not a 150 back. What is the scarcity (if any) of this overprint? Any help would be ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:33:09 EST Subject: real nice website To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com this just answered my previous question...a truly impressive website with a cool openeing, pricing help, backs, variaitons...wish there was a similar one for t-205s. ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:22:28 EST Subject: T206 Collectors don't Miss This To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com If any of you missed Josh's mention of this site, it's great: - Doug ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 20:31:26 -0500 (EST) To: illini90@earthlink.net (Geno Wagner), Subject: T-205 End of Year Back Stats From: keithsummers@webtv.net To: From: "Geno Wagner" Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 07:30:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats Nice work Josh! Very interesting stuff! Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: Wite3@aol.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; prewartraders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats A little more research for you to ponder.... As I seem to be getting closer and closer to finishing my t-205 set (less than 33 to go now!) the research is getting more in depth (not to mentionI have invested just over 5 years on the set. As most of you know I have been totally consumed by the backs of t-205s for some time now. In the last research notice I had recently talked to someprominent vintage dealers including tik and tik, kit young cards, and lew lipsett. Not to mention gathering some info from some older magazines and reports (including vbbc, encyclopedia of baseball cards, and back issues of scd). Not to mention just talking with other t-205 collectors and dealers. Here is the latest research... Some asides before the meaty stuff... There are NOT two colors of Polar Bear backs. There are two colors of American Beauty backs--green and black. The Joss comes in at least four backs...I had not seen a Piedmont Joss until this year...most were Polar Bear, Hassan, and Honest. Broadleaf does come in two colors--black and brown. The Moran with the stray line (which is the last line of type from the Mattern card) and the Gray with stats are incredibly tough to find and do nothave a high enough premium as yet (although the Moran is close). The Ciccote is too darn expensive for what it is (I KNOW he was a black sox, but sheesh, his card should not be more than a Wheat or Tinker!!) First...let us look at my near complete set's back population report. ( It has changed only slightly since I only added 18 cards since my last research Piedmont 47 Polar Bear 35 Hassan 25 Honest Long Cut 22 Sweet Cap Red 21 Sweet Cap Black 18 Soverign 14 Cycle 5 American Beauty-green- 2 American Beauty-black-3 Broadleaf black 2 Broadleaf brown 1 Hindu 1 Drum 1 197 Total cards. Now this may be misleading...the t-205 set is rare in that certain cards only come with certain backs. All minor leaugers come only with a hassan or polar bear back. So, over the last year (12-25-2000 to 12-29-2001 I kept a tally of only common cards being sold on ebay, yahoo, shows and local shops and some of the more prominent online auctions (Mike Wheat, CSA, Mastro, etc.)...here isthat population report. Remember...this does not include the rarer short prints or minor leaugers (Graham and Shean only come with two backs, Joss with four, among other odd back variations which will be discussed in anothere-mail along with factory designations which I am working on as well). Only commons and common stars (meaning cards like Tinker, Evers, Wheat, Collins mouth closed, Breshnahan mouth closed, etc.---not the Collins mouth open,etc.) Piedmont 406 Sweet Cap Red 193 Polar Bear 191 Sweet Cap Black 187 Honest Long Cut 179 Hassan 111 Soverign 70 Cycle 31 American Beauty black 17 Broadleaf brown 9 American Beauty green 9 Broadleaf black 8 Hindu 5 Drum 1 Total 1417 common cards. I think this is more accurate. And a little disturbing when you look at price guides and dealer selling points. Most sources list Piedmont correctly asthe most common. No arguments there. Then they list the Sweet Cap cards as second most but they do not split them into two colors (if they do not split them, Sweet Cap then takes over the second most common spot). But when you split them into the two distinct groups, something happens. The Honest Long Cut and PolarBear backs jumps to third. Most dealers put a very small premium on the Honest back and a decent sized premium on the Polar Bear. I feel that this should not be the case. There is large problem with the price guides and dealers selling polar bear backs.In the T-205 set, Polar Bear is much more common than in the T-206 set. In fact most guides and dealers set a 10-30% premium on the T-205 Polar Bear Back. think this is way off base. I would venture to say at most a 10% premium could be charged. Polar Bear is much more common than the other rare backs the set. Hassan is tough to find. Commons are tough to find with this back. In my set, Soverign is more common but in the wider report, it seems that it isas rare as the guides and dealers think. Cycle and American Beauty are comparable. Both are rare. Both are tough. Although, again, if you split the American Beauty backs into colors, they become as rare as Broadleaf. Now the Broadleaf backs are fairly tough as well. There is a convention that the black one is slightly rarer but it seems from my set and report that they are about equal. Broadleaf often gets the same premium as a hindu but I feel that this should not happen. I have seen many broadleafs (at least 13) and nearly no Hindus. Speaking of Hindu, these are rarer than their t-206 counterparts. I have seen 100% premium charged for this and I think that is accurate and maybe a little conservative. In fact, only two Hindu commons have been on ebay in the last year, and only about six commons in the all the sales and auctions I have seen for the past two years. Now the Drum...up until 1984, Drum was theorized and rumored but was not truely found until 1985 when one went up for public auction. Even then, some people thought it a reprint or fake. In 1990, Drum brand backswere in a very small stash in New York (less than 20). In late 1993 another small stash was found in the South (about 5). I have only seen one common Drum for sale in the last two years. A common(Tannehill if I recall) that actually went for about 7 times book value (700% markup). I actually feel that this is accurate and was a slight bargain. The card was beat to death and still drew four figures. Now, I am not professional researcher but I think the above is fairly accurate. Some cards get resold, or relisted if not sold, I try to make sure Iam not listing cards twice and I think I do okay with this. BTW, for any one week during the year there are about 15-20 T-205s for sale on ebay. PS Just for fun...below is my current wantlist for T-205s (and I do have a Wiltse one ear variaiton--one of the toughest--for trade bait :-): T-205 NEEDS: Batch(ML), Bransfield, Breshnahan (mouth open,R,HOF), Chase(both ears,border stops at shoulders), Cicotte, E. Collins(mouth closed,HOF), Collins(ML), Dahlen(R), Donahue(R), Duffy(HOF), Elberfeld, Fisher, Ford(light cap,R), Grant(R), Gray(w/ stats), Hoblitzell(no stats,R!), Hoblitzell(no "Cin" after 1908), Hoffman, Jacklitsch, D. Jones, Kleinow, Leifield(just "A" on front), Nee(ML), Schmidt, Shean(Cubs,R), Simmons, Stanage, Vaughn(R), Wagner(R), Wallace(no cap,1 line 1910 stats,HOF,R!), Walsh(HOF), Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:01:44 +0800 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, Subject: I'm Baaaaacckk! From: Lynn Miller Hello to All My Old & New Friends, First, a Very Happy New Year to all from the Philippines. Secondly, many thanks to the OBC Advisory Council for accepting my application to rejoin OBC. And to the many well wishers who positively endorsed my request. For some, including moi, it doesn't seem that I have really been away. I have missed one important connection and that's the constant camaraderie on the Ramblings, Thanks etc wires. Some of you know why I left and my situation, not going to rehash that now. Simply want to thank the many of you that stood by me in those hard times. But life does go on and things do happen for a reason. I think I am much better off now and more at peace with myself than ever before. Don't misunderstand, there are still plenty of external problems, but they can be dealt with given time. I really look forward to mixing it up with you, my second family, again. I'll do my best to continue to be a good OBCer. However, as some of you know I do have financial limitations now, not to mention the logistical limitations of living in the Philippines. Someday, I promise, I will get to the States and be at one or as many of the shows together with you as I can. I have yet, in my whole life, had the opportunity to go to a large card show, and from all the wonderful happenings you have related over the years to me, my desire to be there has become insatiable. Not for just the chance to relish picking over old cardboard, but more importantly the chance to finally meet some really grand people. Since Mark put be in the Yahoogroups a day or so ago, it has been really fun to read about all the exploits going on again. I see that not much has changed and the old cardboard continues to sail around the world and give pleasure to so many. Reading these will become a bright spot of everyday for me again. Take care my friends, Lynn ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:18:43 EST Subject: Wayne Gretzky dups (inc UV infected) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ehpiii@aol.com I have picked up a couple lots full of great Gretzkys - a few of which I actually need ! The rest are available for the asking, so if you are a collector of the Great One, LMK and I can let you know what is available. ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:26:01 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: Lynn Miller/arena football in ATLANTA From: keithsummers@webtv.net Welcome back Lynn! You got my vote buddy & I can't imagine anyone not wanting you back. We were about to start an OBC Hall of Fame & make you the 1st member! BTW, thanks for the Christmas card & note :-) If you ever make it back to Atlanta let me know. Fulton County Stadium is gone but we are about to get arena football & former Marietta High & Univ of GA QB Eric Zeier will be lined up behind the center! Last I heard, the team had not been named (but I don't read the sports paper much). Happy New Year to all :-) ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:47:14 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Thanks] I'm Baaaaacckk! To: lynnm@piol.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, From: ChicoD1@aol.com Welcome back Lynn... not that you were ever really away ! You can take OBC out of your email box, but you can't take the kid out of OBC! Original Message Subj: [OBC-Thanks] I'm Baaaaacckk! Date: 12/30/01 9:00:04 PM Eastern Standard Time From: lynnm@piol.net (Lynn Miller) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, Hello to All My Old & New Friends, First, a Very Happy New Year to all from the Philippines. Secondly, many thanks to the OBC Advisory Council for accepting my application to rejoin OBC. And to the many well wishers who positively endorsed my request. For some, including moi, it doesn't seem that I have really been away. I have missed one important connection and that's the constant camaraderie on the Ramblings, Thanks etc wires. Some of you know why I left and my situation, not going to rehash that now. Simply want to thank the many of you that stood by me in those hard times. But life does go on and things do happen for a reason. I think I am much better off now and more at peace with myself than ever before. Don't misunderstand, there are still plenty of external problems, but they can be dealt with given time. I really look forward to mixing it up with you, my second family, again. I'll do my best to continue to be a good OBCer. However, as some of you know I do have financial limitations now, not to mention the logistical limitations of living in the Philippines. Someday, I promise, I will get to the States and be at one or as many of the shows together with you as I can. I have yet, in my whole life, had the opportunity to go to a large card show, and from all the wonderful happenings you have related over the years to me, my desire to be there has become insatiable. Not for just the chance to relish picking over old cardboard, but more importantly the chance to finally meet some really grand people. Since Mark put be in the Yahoogroups a day or so ago, it has been really fun to read about all the exploits going on again. I see that not much has changed and the old cardboard continues to sail around the world and give pleasure to so many. Reading these will become a bright spot of everyday for me again. Take care my friends, Lynn To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: < Received: from rly-za01.mx.aol.com (rly-za01.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.97]) air-za05.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINZA59-1230210004; Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:00:04 -0500 Received: from n31.groups.yahoo.com (n31.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.81]) by rly-za01.mx.aol.com (v83.18) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINZA19-1230205950; Sun, 30 Dec 2001 20:59:50 -0500 Received: from [216.115.97.164] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2001 01:59:13 -0000 X-Sender: lynnm@piol.net X-Apparently-To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 31 Dec 2001 01:59:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 5692 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2001 01:59:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2001 01:59:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hvisions.com) (66.110.58.199) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2001 01:59:11 -0000 Received: from piol.net (ocdialup5.piol.net [66.110.58.133]) by hvisions.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16530; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:12:41 +0800 (PHT) Message-ID: <3C2FC708.FAE5E5A8@piol.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com, From: Lynn Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com; contact Delivered-To: mailing list OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:01:44 +0800 Subject: [OBC-Thanks] I'm Baaaaacckk! ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 22:07:50 EST Subject: Do you know who I am? And an ebay question. To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: washalou@aol.com Hello OBC, I am an unknown to many of our newer members, mostly because I'm like a bear who only awakens from hibernation every once in a rare moon. But when I do, the cardboard really flies. Twenty-six cardboard "bombs" will depart in tomorrow's mail. For some, I've owed you for quite a while. For others, I just found something from your wantlist although we've never "traded" before. I'm suddenly headfirst into baseball cards again because I stumbled across first Yahoo auctions, than Ebay auctions. I'd never seen or fooled with them before but in the past month I've already blown a year's worth of baseball card money. Every time I go online, I find something I didn't know I wanted. I wondered if some of you auction veterans would mind sharing your tips and tricks with me? What are your strategies for using the auctions without continually going hog-wild? Who are some of the better sellers? How can we monitor the bidding so as to not bid against each other? (My ebay and yahoo name is Laughdrjr, btw.) BTW, an update on me. I am in my second year as an assistant principal at one of the finest high schools in the United States - duPont Manual High in Louisville. My sons are 5 1/2 (Jordan) and 3 1/2 (William) and we just had a great Christmas. I also have recently started a side business developing, writing, and creating ancillary material for my father to sell. He is a professional speaker, the Laugh Doctor, who speaks about humor and health. A psychiatrist who moonlighted as a stand-up comedian for years, he has always been active in adjunctive medicine, i.e. the use of laughter to manage chronic pain or illness. I look forward to "bombing" more of you soon. Happy New Years, Greg Kuhn ================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 22:20:38 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Thanks] I'm Baaaaacckk! To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Welcome back from all of us! ================= To: "Geno Wagner" , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 22:26:12 -0500 From: "galtemos" For whatever it's worth, attached is a list of the backs of my T205's and T206's. This is not a scientific analysis.........it is just what I have. This is also my wantlist for backs. I am trying to get at least one of each back for each set. If you have a back that I need, I am very interested in buying or trading for it. I will be out of town (in Las Vegas) for the next week. From: Geno Wagner To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats Date: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:30 AM Nice work Josh! Very interesting stuff! Take Care, Geno ----- Original Message ----- From: Wite3@aol.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; prewartraders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] T-205 End of Year Back Stats A little more research for you to ponder.... As I seem to be getting closer and closer to finishing my t-205 set (less than 33 to go now!) the research is getting more in depth (not to mention I have invested just over 5 years on the set. As most of you know I have been totally consumed by the backs of t-205s for some time now. In the last research notice I had recently talked to some prominent vintage dealers including tik and tik, kit young cards, and lew lipsett. Not to mention gathering some info from some older magazines and reports (including vbbc, encyclopedia of baseball cards, and back issues of scd). Not to mention just talking with other t-205 collectors and Here is the latest research... Some asides before the meaty stuff... There are NOT two colors of Polar Bear backs. There are two colors of American Beauty backs--green and black. The Joss comes in at least four backs...I had not seen a Piedmont Joss until this year...most were Polar Bear, Hassan, and Honest. Broadleaf does come in two colors--black and brown. The Moran with the stray line (which is the last line of type from the Mattern card) and the Gray with stats are incredibly tough to find and do not have a high enough premium as yet (although the Moran is close). The Ciccote is too darn expensive for what it is (I KNOW he was a black sox, but sheesh, his card should not be more than a Wheat or Tinker!!) First...let us look at my near complete set's back population report. ( It has changed only slightly since I only added 18 cards since my last research report) Piedmont 47 Polar Bear 35 Hassan 25 Honest Long Cut 22 Sweet Cap Red 21 Sweet Cap Black 18 Soverign 14 Cycle 5 American Beauty-green- 2 American Beauty-black-3 Broadleaf black 2 Broadleaf brown 1 Hindu 1 Drum 1 197 Total cards. Now this may be misleading...the t-205 set is rare in that certain cards come with certain backs. All minor leaugers come only with a hassan or polar bear back. So, over the last year (12-25-2000 to 12-29-2001 I kept a tally of only common cards being sold on ebay, yahoo, shows and local shops and some of the more prominent online auctions (Mike Wheat, CSA, Mastro, etc.)...here is that population report. Remember...this does not include the rarer short prints or minor leaugers (Graham and Shean only come with two backs, Joss with four, among other odd back variations which will be discussed in another e-mail along with factory designations which I am working on as well). Only commons and common stars (meaning cards like Tinker, Evers, Wheat, Collins mouth closed, Breshnahan mouth closed, etc.---not the Collins mouth open, etc.) Piedmont 406 Sweet Cap Red 193 Polar Bear 191 Sweet Cap Black 187 Honest Long Cut 179 Hassan 111 Soverign 70 Cycle 31 American Beauty black 17 Broadleaf brown 9 American Beauty green 9 Broadleaf black 8 Hindu 5 Drum 1 Total 1417 common cards. I think this is more accurate. And a little disturbing when you look at guides and dealer selling points. Most sources list Piedmont correctly as most common. No arguments there. Then they list the Sweet Cap cards as most but they do not split them into two colors (if they do not split Sweet Cap then takes over the second most common spot). But when you split them into the two distinct groups, something happens. The Honest Long Cut and Polar Bear backs jumps to third. Most dealers put a very small premium on the Honest back and a decent sized premium on the Polar Bear. I feel that this should not be the case. There is large problem with the price guides and dealers selling polar bear backs. the T-205 set, Polar Bear is much more common than in the T-206 set. In most guides and dealers set a 10-30% premium on the T-205 Polar Bear Back. I think this is way off base. I would venture to say at most a 10% premium could be charged. Polar Bear is much more common than the other rare backs in the set. Hassan is tough to find. Commons are tough to find with this back. In my set, Soverign is more common but in the wider report, it seems that it is rare as the guides and dealers think. Cycle and American Beauty are comparable. Both are rare. Both are tough. Although, again, if you split the American Beauty backs into colors, they become as rare as Broadleaf. Now the Broadleaf backs are fairly tough as well. There is a convention that the black one is slightly rarer but it seems from my set and report that they are about equal. Broadleaf often the same premium as a hindu but I feel that this should not happen. I seen many broadleafs (at least 13) and nearly no Hindus. Speaking of these are rarer than their t-206 counterparts. I have seen 100% premium charged for this and I think that is accurate and maybe a little conservative. In fact, only two Hindu commons have been on ebay in the last year, and only about six commons in the all the sales and auctions I have seen for the past two years. Now the Drum...up until 1984, Drum was theorized and rumored but was not truely found until 1985 when one went up for public auction. then, some people thought it a reprint or fake. In 1990, Drum brand backs were found in a very small stash in New York (less than 20). In late 1993 another small stash was found in the South (about 5). I have only seen one common Drum for sale in the last two years. A common (Tannehill if I recall) that actually went for about 7 times book value (700% markup). I actually feel that this is accurate and was a slight bargain. The card was beat to death and still drew four figures. Now, I am not professional researcher but I think the above is fairly accurate. Some cards get resold, or relisted if not sold, I try to make sure I am not listing cards twice and I think I do okay with this. BTW, for any one week during the year there are about 15-20 T-205s for sale on ebay. PS Just for fun...below is my current wantlist for T-205s (and I do have a Wiltse one ear variaiton--one of the toughest--for trade bait :-): T-205 NEEDS: Batch(ML), Bransfield, Breshnahan (mouth open,R,HOF), Chase(both ears,border stops at shoulders), Cicotte, E. Collins(mouth closed,HOF), Collins(ML), Dahlen(R), Donahue(R), Duffy(HOF), Elberfeld, Fisher, Ford(light cap,R), Grant(R), Gray(w/ stats), Hoblitzell(no Hoblitzell(no "Cin" after 1908), Hoffman, Jacklitsch, D. Jones, Kleinow, Leifield(just "A" on front), Nee(ML), Schmidt, Shean(Cubs,R), Simmons, Stanage, Turner(R), Vaughn(R), Wagner(R), Wallace(no cap,1 line 1910 stats,HOF,R!), Walsh(HOF), Wilhelm(R). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:57:46 EST Subject: An old idea revisited To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com All - First, Happy New Year to all of OBC! I spent the day searching wantlists and packing "Puffy's" for many of you. I couldn't get everyone (a goal many of us hope to accomplish) but, I tried. I will be busy mailing all the old cardboard tomorrow so, watch your mailboxes! While I was doing this I decided to use a tried and true method know by many OBCer's for years. I used old nine pockets sheets cut into threes each third has enough room to insert at least 12 cards and fits nicely in a business size envelope. I believe if you have 9 to 12 cards the envelope still only requires one stamp. I decided to use a sharpie and mark each of the sleeves with my screen name and the date I will be mailing them, I have often done this in the past. What I hope you will do is when you receive these sleeves recycle them when you send cards out to other OBCer's placing your screen name or email name in sharpie below mine or the person's name you receive it from. I am hoping we will see the recycled sleeves travel around OBC until we can't get another name and date on them which could take some time! I cannot recall who first started this but, I do like the idea! Of course no one is at all obligated to do this, I just thought it would be fun to see where the sleeves travel to and from over the course of time. Meanwhile I will be returning to Washington, DC on January 7th and will not have much time for cards until after the winter Olympics. This was another reason I spent so much time on the wantlist today. I look forward to seeing anyone in or near Washington or Salt Lake City during my details. I will have my laptop with me so I can stay in touch with the group. I will post a message with the details of where I will be staying and when later this week. Another Baseball Quote: "The fan is the one who suffers. He cheers a guy to a .350 season, then watches that player sign with another team. When you destroy fan loyalties, you destroy everything." -------Frank Robinson Tripleplay (Rick) ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T-206 back help Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 07:16:57 -0600 From: "David Kolenda" Josh, click on the following http://hometown.aol.com/dkolenda1/t206.html it gives a fairly accurate listing of the order of T-206 backs, with 1 being the hardest to find. There is always room for debate concerning the order, especially when you get down to the 30's. but 1 to ten are damm close. I feel the first 5 or so are dead on. 7 might be 8, and 8 might be 7 etc. All in all this list is fairly accurate. It list all KNOWN AND PROVENbacks. As you will see, I do not consider the old mill overprints as issued backs, only errors. I believe what you picked up is a SC 150 overprinted with 649. Ranks slightly tougher than the SC 350. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wite3@aol.com To: prewartraders@yahoogroups.com ; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 5:13 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] T-206 back help Today, at a local show, I picked up a t-206 Liebhardt, Cleveland. Nice vg-ex t-206. What interested me was the back...it is a Sweet Caporal 150 backwith the factory overprint. I have seen several Sweet Cap 350 overprints but not a 150 back. What is the scarcity (if any) of this overprint? Any help would be appreciated. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:40:12 EST Subject: Another T-206 question To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com Somewhere, long ago, I had an article about the T-206 set that showed which players were in which series. I just recieved a very poor (Tipton Mint) card of Al Burch, Brooklyn. The reason I bought it was that it had an American Beauty, no frame back and was wondering which series it was (I hope 460). I can't tell because the reason it is poor is the card is ripped where the series designation is. I can tell you it is Burch Fielding, and from Fac. 42 4th district NC Help? Thanks for the help on the other Sweet Cap card. ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:48:03 EST Subject: Web Update, Idea, and Happy new year To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: t206guy@aol.com Just to let everyone know... I FINALLY worked out the glitches in my web page poster and I have updated my web page (after 8 months) and it has several updates (and one dead link which I will fix) including new baseball recordings and a wantlist that contains about 5 new sets, all of which are either 69 or newer. They shouldn't be tough to hit. Plus I have most of the stars so they are mostly commons. I also started the 55 bowman since I have the major stars (aaron, mays, mantle) and some other odds and ends. Most of the stars are already in binders.. See if you can help out. OK.. Idea... I suggest that EVERYONE update your wantlist and Email it to begin the new year. That way we can start the year off on the right foot of packing each other's mail boxes. Anyone else like the idea? Mark T206Guy Atnip ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Urgent Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:48:55 -0500 From: "Bob Corvello" Please check this out carefully. I did find the virus mentioned on my hard drive. You may have it too. Bob C. Subj: Fwd: Re:virus that was sent to all in my address book Date: 12/31/2001 1:33:01 PM Eastern Standard Time From: prizmz@hotmail.com To: Friar4@aol.com, ydujnilved@yahoo.com, lindicor@excite.com, JFitz128@aol.com, jane.donn@snet.net, KCSPTA@aol.com, Eanosike@aol.com, emf958@yahoo.com, RSX278@Yahoo.com, FCronin@eosmith.org, DMF115@aol.com, eifinn@snet.net, Basieitte@aol.com, letitiag@excite.com, ARLENGUA@aol.com, NGreen2639@aol.com, T48haig@aol.com, BHines6335@aol.com, HAB860@AOL.com, hollyc@dornenburggroup.com, housatonic.youth.svc@snet.net, JBuck10259@aol.com, MAJMidwife@aol.com, janet@schwartzfam.org, billkawina@yahoo.com, jlang661@yahoo.com, SRSCAN1@Yahoo.com, lbuckle@hotmail.com, tdicor@excite.com, 8__ELockett@Fairfield.edu, GSLotreck@Yahoo.com, BMartin@Medspan.com, thomas.mcgovern@asu.edu, momma_kim@hotmail.com, Denitrice.Medina2@CIGNA.com, BAdMend@aol.com, j_obrien01@yahoo.com, lpaige99@yahoo.com, tpham@fau.edu, rcsantore@yahoo.com, rgengel@optonline.net, richnsally@netzero.net, fmruotolo@yahoo.com, janetsschwartz@yahoo.com, hphs@ntplx.net, strausberg@region12.org, sexyladytalabi@Hotmail.com, mwilbur51@Yahoo.com, Sent from the Internet (Details) >From: "Jerry L. Gilbert" >To: "Trent Smock" , "Tom Tinney" >, "Terri Jacobs" , >"Tamara Brown" , "Sue Ferry" , >"Sharon Warner" , "Robin Gilbert" >, "Robert Byrne" , "Paula >Shuffler" , "Pat Innocenti" , >"Pat Brothers" , "Mike Monts" , >"Mike Lundgren" , "Marianne Kyle" >, "Lisa Ann Oliveira" , "Judy >Duzan" , "Judy Andrews" , "Joe >Morgan" , "Jim Crampton" , "Jim & >Kathy Smith" , "Jack McClellan" >, "Holly & Dave Constantine" , >"Herb/Jennifer Goettelman" , "Herb Joyce" >, "Guy & Judy Fields" , "Greg S. >Gilbert" , "Gary Kollars" >, "Gail Baumkirchner" , >"Floyd Hamilton" , "Elaine Miencke" >, "Diana Wierman" , "Denny >Stewart" , "Dennis Monts" , >"Dave Schwarzlose" , "Carrie Sheidt" >, "Brandy" , >"bobbijeanne@charter.net" , "Bob Salerno" >, "Bob & Lesley Buckley" , >"Bill Archbold" , "Barb Spoerry" >, "Anthony Gilbert" >Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in my address book >Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 02:53:24 -0700 (US Mountain Standard Time) >-------Original Message------- >From: jamee stahl >Date: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:23:33 PM >To: Jerry Gilbert >Subject: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in my address book >--- Chip S wrote: > > Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 03:33:22 -0800 (PST) > > From: Chip S > > Subject: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in > > my address book > > To: Jamee Stahl > > > > > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > >> Subject: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in > > my address book > > Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 05:58:16 > > > > > > > > > > > >From Jay and Eileen Jenkins, we found this on > > our hard drive. > > > > To All in my Address Book: > > > > > > > > THIS IS FOR REAL AND YOU MUST TAKE ACTION! > > > > > > > > I may have inadvertently infected your computer > > iwth a virus without > > > > knowing it if I sent you an e-mail during the > > time my computer was > > > > infected. I received this warning from a friend > > and I searched and did > > > > find the virus sulfnbk.exe on my hard drive and > > have eliminated it and > > > > you need to do the same! > > > > > > > > YOU MAY HAVE HEARD OF A NEW VIRUS THAT TRANSMITS > > TO THE ENTIRE MAILING > > > > LIST. > > > > > > > > The virus talked about below did show up on my > > computer. Here are the > > > > directions for cleaning it up. YOU WILL NEED TO > > CLEAN IT UP BEFORE IT > > > > ACTS. YOU ARE ON MY MAILING LIST SO YOU SHOULD > > HAVETHE VIRUS. > > > > > > > > This nasty virus lies dormant for 14 days, then > > it kills your hard > > >drive. > > > > > > > > Here's how to stop it. > > > > > > > > IF YOU'VE GOT IT, PLEASE SEND THIS EMAIL TO > > EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS > > >BOOK > > > > ASAP! > > > > > > > > To remove: > > > > 1. Go to "start", then to "find" or "search" > > (depending on your > > > > computer). > > > > > > > > 2. In the "search for files or folders" type in > > "sulfnbk.exe" this is > > > > the virus name. > > > > > > > > 3. Make sure you search in drive "C" and any > > other hard drive. > > > > > > > > 4. Hit the search button (or find). > > > > > > > > 5. If this file shos us (it's an ugly blackish > > icon that will have the > > > > name sulfnbk.exe). DO NOT OPEN!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > 6. RIGHT click on the FILE - go down to delete > > and left click. > > > > > > > > 7. It will ask you if you want to send it to > > the recycle bin, say YES. > > > > > > > > 8. Go to the desktop, to your recycle bin and > > double click to open the > > > > bin. EMPTY the bin. > > > > > > > > IF YOU FIND THIS FILE ON YOUR "C" DRIVE, PLEASE > > SEND THIS EMAIL TO > > > > EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK BECAUSE THIS IS > > HOW IT TRANSFERS ITSELF. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > > http://messenger.msn.com > > >Do You Yahoo!? >Send your FREE holiday greetings online! >http://greetings.yahoo.com Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:48:51 -0500 (EST) To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Urgent From: Neal Thomas Bob and all- This is a hoax--this file is part of everyones windows directory-- there is a website (which I forgot to bookmark) that tells about this hoax, and how to re-install this file. ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: "Bob Corvello" Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Urgent Date: 12/31/2001 05:48pm Please check this out carefully. I did find the virus mentioned on my drive. You may have it too. Bob C. Subj: Fwd: Re:virus that was sent to all in my address book Date: 12/31/2001 1:33:01 PM Eastern Standard Time From: prizmz@hotmail.com To: Friar4@aol.com, ydujnilved@yahoo.com, lindicor@excite.com, JFitz128@aol.com, jane.donn@snet.net, KCSPTA@aol.com, emf958@yahoo.com, RSX278@Yahoo.com, FCronin@eosmith.org, eifinn@snet.net, Basieitte@aol.com, letitiag@excite.com, NGreen2639@aol.com, T48haig@aol.com, BHines6335@aol.com, hollyc@dornenburggroup.com, housatonic.youth.svc@snet.net, JBuck10259@aol.com, MAJMidwife@aol.com, janet@schwartzfam.org, billkawina@yahoo.com, jlang661@yahoo.com, SRSCAN1@Yahoo.com, lbuckle@hotmail.com, tdicor@excite.com, 8__ELockett@Fairfield.edu, GSLotreck@Yahoo.com, BMartin@Medspan.com, thomas.mcgovern@asu.edu, momma_kim@hotmail.com, Denitrice.Medina2@CIGNA.com, BAdMend@aol.com, j_obrien01@yahoo.com, lpaige99@yahoo.com, tpham@fau.edu, rcsantore@yahoo.com, rgengel@optonline.net, richnsally@netzero.net, fmruotolo@yahoo.com, janetsschwartz@yahoo.com, hphs@ntplx.net, strausberg@region12.org, sexyladytalabi@Hotmail.com, Sent from the Internet (Details) >From: "Jerry L. Gilbert" >To: "Trent Smock" , "Tom Tinney" >, "Terri Jacobs" >"Tamara Brown" , "Sue Ferry" , >"Sharon Warner" , "Robin Gilbert" >, "Robert Byrne" , "Paula >Shuffler" , "Pat Innocenti" >"Pat Brothers" , "Mike Monts" >"Mike Lundgren" , "Marianne Kyle" >, "Lisa Ann Oliveira" , "Judy >Duzan" , "Judy Andrews" , "Joe >Morgan" , "Jim Crampton" , "Jim & >Kathy Smith" , "Jack McClellan" >, "Holly & Dave Constantine" >"Herb/Jennifer Goettelman" , "Herb Joyce" >, "Guy & Judy Fields" , "Greg S. >Gilbert" , "Gary Kollars" >, "Gail Baumkirchner" >"Floyd Hamilton" , "Elaine Miencke" >, "Diana Wierman" , "Denny >Stewart" , "Dennis Monts" >"Dave Schwarzlose" , "Carrie Sheidt" >, "Brandy" , >"bobbijeanne@charter.net" , "Bob Salerno" >, "Bob & Lesley Buckley" >"Bill Archbold" , "Barb Spoerry" >, "Anthony Gilbert" >Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in my address >Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 02:53:24 -0700 (US Mountain Standard Time) >-------Original Message------- >From: jamee stahl >Date: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:23:33 PM >To: Jerry Gilbert >Subject: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in my address book >--- Chip S wrote: > > Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 03:33:22 -0800 (PST) > > From: Chip S > > Subject: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in > > my address book > > To: Jamee Stahl > > > > > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > > http://greetings.yahoo.com > >> Subject: Fwd: Fw: Re:virus that was sent to all in > > my address book > > Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 05:58:16 > > > > > > > > > > > >From Jay and Eileen Jenkins, we found this on > > our hard drive. > > > > To All in my Address Book: > > > > > > > > THIS IS FOR REAL AND YOU MUST TAKE ACTION! > > > > > > > > I may have inadvertently infected your computer > > iwth a virus without > > > > knowing it if I sent you an e-mail during the > > time my computer was > > > > infected. I received this warning from a friend > > and I searched and did > > > > find the virus sulfnbk.exe on my hard drive and > > have eliminated it and > > > > you need to do the same! > > > > > > > > YOU MAY HAVE HEARD OF A NEW VIRUS THAT TRANSMITS > > TO THE ENTIRE MAILING > > > > LIST. > > > > > > > > The virus talked about below did show up on my > > computer. Here are the > > > > directions for cleaning it up. YOU WILL NEED TO > > CLEAN IT UP BEFORE IT > > > > ACTS. YOU ARE ON MY MAILING LIST SO YOU SHOULD > > HAVETHE VIRUS. > > > > > > > > This nasty virus lies dormant for 14 days, then > > it kills your hard > > >drive. > > > > > > > > Here's how to stop it. > > > > > > > > IF YOU'VE GOT IT, PLEASE SEND THIS EMAIL TO > > EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS > > >BOOK > > > > ASAP! > > > > > > > > To remove: > > > > 1. Go to "start", then to "find" or "search" > > (depending on your > > > > computer). > > > > > > > > 2. In the "search for files or folders" type in > > "sulfnbk.exe" this is > > > > the virus name. > > > > > > > > 3. Make sure you search in drive "C" and any > > other hard drive. > > > > > > > > 4. Hit the search button (or find). > > > > > > > > 5. If this file shos us (it's an ugly blackish > > icon that will have the > > > > name sulfnbk.exe). DO NOT OPEN!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > 6. RIGHT click on the FILE - go down to delete > > and left click. > > > > > > > > 7. It will ask you if you want to send it to > > the recycle bin, say YES. > > > > > > > > 8. Go to the desktop, to your recycle bin and > > double click to open the > > > > bin. EMPTY the bin. > > > > > > > > IF YOU FIND THIS FILE ON YOUR "C" DRIVE, PLEASE > > SEND THIS EMAIL TO > > > > EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK BECAUSE THIS IS > > HOW IT TRANSFERS ITSELF. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > > http://messenger.msn.com > > >Do You Yahoo!? >Send your FREE holiday greetings online! >http://greetings.yahoo.com Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:39:42 -0600 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Urgent From: Gary Pearce At 04:48 PM 12/31/01, Neal Thomas wrote; >Bob and all- >[re: sulfnbk.exe] >This is a hoax--this file is part of everyones windows directory-- >there is a website (which I forgot to bookmark) that tells about this >hoax, and how to re-install this file. Is this the page you're looking for?? http://www.snopes2.com/computer/virus/sulfnbk.htm ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: outgoing Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:52:34 From: "jeff sinclair" hey guys, just want everybody that i promised 1970 and any other cards to that all packages will go out this week. also, i think it a good idea that all members get their lists updated for the new year. i know from searching lists that many of these haven't been updated for quite sometime. i feel this is a courtesy to the entire have a great 2002!!! do you remember the feel of the candy store steps? MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 19:54:54 EST Subject: scd editorial on card stores To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, prewartraders@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com SCD had an editorial in one of the last issues lamenting the decline in the number of neighborhood cardstores. While they said there were too many stores in the early 90s when you could find one in virtually every strip mall, so many have closed in the past three years that they are getting more and more scarce...too scarce for the future health of the hobby. Their premise is that a good card store provides collectors a place to go to talk cards, get packs, introduce kids to cards and generally give a personal touch to the hobby. Question #1 - Do you agree with SCD's premise that we'd be better served with more cardstores than currently exist (although probably not as many as were open 5-10 years ago)? I agree. Question #2 - What characteristics do you use to judge a cardstore when you visit? Personnally, I scan the cases to see if there are any cards older than my kids (oldest turns 4 tomorrow). I also want to see a little organization in the cases, i.e., like things grouped together. Third, I want a proprietor that knows more about cards than just the next Upper Deck release date. Fourth, fair prices. I'm interested in everyone's thoughts. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: This one should end up in an OBC binder! Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 19:53:37 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1055633520 ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 20:36:27 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Breaking the 1000 barrier! From: Dan Austin My opinion is to count the basic sets from 1951-1980. Sure, there are lots of oddball sets and insert sets that some of us collect as well, but I think the "core" sets are where the line is set. Although, not loved as much as their sophomore sibling, the '51 Red/Blue backs surely must be included! Viva la tiny cards! - Dan "635 to go" Austin ;-) At 10:54 PM 12/29/01, Sean McGowan wrote: >What about the 16 '51 topps team cards? And what about the Connie Mac >All-Stars? Where do you draw the line? Aren't there some baseball in that >'48 set topps put out? ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 21:30:52 EST Subject: My Last Thanks for 2001! To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com My sincere thanks out to Richard B. Hankins! Happy New Year OBC!!!!!!!! Richard surprised me on the last day of 2001 with three beautiful (they all are beautiful) 1953 Topps!!!! THANKS Richard for the grand old It is ironic the cards are younger than me yet probably older than most of the members of the OBC group! It is also ironic the cards traveled from my home state of Georgia! It is also ironic the cards came from another Richard (we can never get enough Richard's in this group)! Richard's note was also ironic and I quote: "Hi Rick, Hope you enjoy these. I'm having a blast with OBC." Richard that could have been a note I sent to several people such as Larry Tipton, Terry Woods, Josh Levine, Bob Corvello, George Moore, Bob Neill, and several others 10+ years ago! Welcome to the group and thanks again for the cards and especially the friendship and sheer enjoyment your note expressed! 10+ years ago when I happened upon this group it was a small group of less than a dozen traders! It has been a wonderful ride and hopefully will continue to be so for a long time to come! Once again Happy New Year OBC and to many years to come! Another Baseball Quote: "If I had one wish in the world today, it would be that Jackie Robinson could be here to see this happen." -------Frank Robinson on being made the first black manager 1974 Tripleplay (Rick) ================= To: , , Subject: Re: [OBC-Thanks] My Last Thanks for 2001! Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 21:45:12 -0500 From: "Bob Corvello" Rick's note made me reflect on so many things that have happened in the last decade. Most of all, I have enjoyed the brotherhood of a bunch of guys, many of whom I have never met in person. OBC is an amazing phenomenon. In retrospect, the odds against a group like this achieving what it has in a decade are beyond consideration. Yet, these things have happened and they happen with a consistency that defies normal human endeavour. I have come to respect so many people in the evolution of this group. Rick is one of the best examples. Although we have never met personally (almost happened in a trip my wife and I made to San Francisco many years ago, but not quite), I have come to respect and love the man for his values and his obvious character. Time after time he has stood tall when an issue has arisen and shown that character and courage have not gone out of style. Amazingly, he is not unusual in this group. I have always loved the definition of courage that describes it to be "grace under pressure." Somewhat surprisingly, the need for this kind of courage has occurred often in our decade of growth. Rick and many others have risen to the occasion, making this group something special and unusual. As we reflect on the past year and the tragedy that changed all of us, I would like to also remember one of the positive constants in my life over the last decade - OBC and the people who have lived its life. the olde Friar ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 21:57:34 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Thanks] My Last Thanks for 2001! To: friar4@mail1.nai.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, From: tply@aol.com Bob - I know many of you will not believe me when I say this but, I had tears in my eyes reading Bob's email. Rest well my friends and be safe! Another Baseball Quote: "The one change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen into a second-class immortal." ------Satchel Paige on his induction into the Hall of Fame, August 9, 1971 Tripleplay (Rick) ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:55:58 -0800 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] scd editorial on card stores From: Erik & Leticia Greenwood I can remember one of the highlights of my adolescence would be to go to the card shop (early 1980's). I would go to Wes' Hall of Fame in Paramount, CA and pick up some "old" cards. Wes would have bargain lots of 65's, 66's, etc. - 100 card bricks for five dollars. There were some stars, cards from every series. They would always be a welcome addition to my collection of 1978 - 1983 cards. I could also count on picking up some old Dodgers from Wes' hometown board. For $1-5, I could get a well loved Jackie Robinson, or Koufax or Snider. I stopped collecting when I joined the Navy in 1987, and did not start up again until 1995 or so. By that time, I was married, in graduate school and working full time. I enjoyed reading the SCD, and would pick up the occasional card through dealers from the magazine. I have managed to go to only about a half dozen stores over the last ten years, and I have not been impressed by any of them. The card shops I have visited sell primarily current year stuff, and their display cases show off memorabilia cards, and rookie cards of all of the current stars. The photography, stock etc. of UV cards spans the spectrum of gorgeous to gaudy, but they seem to lack the character of the more vintage stuff. I purchase nearly all of my cards via ebay, and was really naive about the current state of cards. I recently had to make a visit to one of our off-site facilities. I noticed a card shop on the way, and stopped by at lunch. I spoke with the owner for a little bit. He said that he sold all of his vintage stuff, and dealt exclusively with UV cards. A regular customer came in and they started talking about a $800 Ichiro card he purchased. He actually used the word "invested". I really felt bad for him. I just don't see how there could be any upside at $800. For $800, I prefer 3 Tipton T206 Cobbs thank you. While they were talking, I started looking at pack prices - $5, $10, $20 per pack! I was quite shocked. If the UV stuff keeps him in business, more power to him, but I long for the days of the dealers with bargain boxes. amcook93@aol.com wrote: > SCD had an editorial in one of the last issues lamenting the decline in the > number of neighborhood cardstores. While they said there were too many > stores in the early 90s when you could find one in virtually every strip > mall, so many have closed in the past three years that they are getting more > and more scarce...too scarce for the future health of the hobby. Their > premise is that a good card store provides collectors a place to go to talk > cards, get packs, introduce kids to cards and generally give a personal touch > to the hobby. > Question #1 - Do you agree with SCD's premise that we'd be better served with > more cardstores than currently exist (although probably not as many as were > open 5-10 years ago)? I agree. > Question #2 - What characteristics do you use to judge a cardstore when you > visit? Personnally, I scan the cases to see if there are any cards older than > my kids (oldest turns 4 tomorrow). I also want to see a little organization > in the cases, i.e., like things grouped together. Third, I want a proprietor > that knows more about cards than just the next Upper Deck release date. > Fourth, fair prices. > I'm interested in everyone's thoughts. > Andy > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 22:31:34 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] scd editorial on card stores To: AMCOOK93@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, From: mma3026559@aol.com Hi Andy & others, I live (& grew up) in a suburb of Oakland California with a population of 55,000 (6 million in the greater Bay Area now). The first (Exclusive) Sports card store opened here in 1976, with Dennis King opening his shop in Berkeley. His first store was the size of a broom closet (appx 8 feet by 12 feet) & featured a good mix of Vintage & Modern cards, although no current year unopened product. Within a few years, several other stores opened in our region (Sal Dichiera's Amazing Adventures in SF, Joe Colabella's Record King in San Rafael, Walter Abe's Peninsula Sports Cards to name but a few). In each case these were all independant minded businessmen seeing an opportunity to make a buck (a living it turns out) doing something that they enjoyed. During the 80's, literally hundreds of stores were active in the greater Bay Area. Some were worth the visit, others were like a trip to the dentist (Just an expression, I'm NOT an anti-dentite!!). Today the greater Bay Area still has several dozen active stores selling Sports Cards & Memorabilia, although most have now expanded into Comics, Magic,etc. We are very fortunate, in our area, to have a number of quality locations for collectors to choose from.In my hometown, the local paper ran a story on card shops about six months ago. I was surprised to learn that there were actually 5 stores in my town (I was aware of 3). From a collector's standpoint, this may appear to be utopia, but it all depends on what you collect. Clearly the need for Quality stores is there & it would be permanantly damaging to the local hobby if all of the stores shut down. I don't know if adding more stores would be beneficial. Shopowners clearly have a delicate tightrope to walk these days & have to be in tune with their clientele, while charging enough to insure that a profit is left after the expenses are paid. Bay Area rents (& cost of living) are among the highest in the country & many local consumers are spending online (Ebay,etc) to help stretch their dollars. Like it or not, pre 1980 cards cater to a small (albeit important) segment of the hobby; at least for NOW ! In terms of what I look for in a shop, I look for the following ....... 1) Organization : Baseball with baseball, chronologic order, however. Just ORGANIZE the store. 2) Helpful staff: I'm not talking about major a.. kissing, but a friendly greeting & if they offer to help you find something , all the better. Also knowing when to back off & let you browse. 3) Selection : I'm not talking cases filled with 55 Doubleheaders & T-206, but a little beyond 2001 Whoop-De-Doo Inserts & slabbed stuff. (Note: Several stores post notices that they have ACCESS to older cards/ memorabilia where potential customers can inquire) 4) Knowledge : Nobody knows it all, but if they go beyond the basics & know when to say "I Don't know" to an advanced question (Rather than filling in some BS) they get my nod. 5) Camaraderie : Hard to define, but when you walk into a store and it has that 'feel' you get a better sense of being there. 6) Fair/ Common sense Prices: I don't expect T-206's at a buck a piece, but marking a Fair-Good card " Top Book-$100, My price-$75" is wasting valuable space in the case & is insulting to the potential customer. To summarize & simplify, Mutual respect..!! ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] I'm Baaaaacckk! Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:02:23 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" Since you have never been to a real big show, you have to check out: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/seankatie/cleveland/index.htm and see shots from the national this past summer :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Miller" To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 9:01 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] I'm Baaaaacckk! > Hello to All My Old & New Friends, > First, a Very Happy New Year to all from the Philippines. Secondly, > many thanks to the OBC Advisory Council for accepting my application to > rejoin OBC. And to the many well wishers who positively endorsed my > request. For some, including moi, it doesn't seem that I have really > been away. I have missed one important connection and that's the > constant camaraderie on the Ramblings, Thanks etc wires. Some of you > know why I left and my situation, not going to rehash that now. Simply > want to thank the many of you that stood by me in those hard times. But > life does go on and things do happen for a reason. I think I am much > better off now and more at peace with myself than ever before. Don't > misunderstand, there are still plenty of external problems, but they can > be dealt with given time. > I really look forward to mixing it up with you, my second family, > again. I'll do my best to continue to be a good OBCer. However, as > some of you know I do have financial limitations now, not to mention > the logistical limitations of living in the Philippines. Someday, I > promise, I will get to the States and be at one or as many of the shows > together with you as I can. I have yet, in my whole life, had the > opportunity to go to a large card show, and from all the wonderful > happenings you have related over the years to me, my desire to be there > has become insatiable. Not for just the chance to relish picking over > old cardboard, but more importantly the chance to finally meet some > really grand people. > Since Mark put be in the Yahoogroups a day or so ago, it has been > really fun to read about all the exploits going on again. I see that > not much has changed and the old cardboard continues to sail around the > world and give pleasure to so many. Reading these will become a bright > spot of everyday for me again. > Take care my friends, Lynn > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:11:02 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: ebay vs Yahoo auctions /card shops From: keithsummers@webtv.net In my annual test of ebay vs Yahoo auctions (searching titles only) here are the results: Name ebay Yahoo "Wally Moon" 23 3 Veeck 4 0 "Wilmer Mizell" 5 0 "Jim Nash" 2 0 "Ollie Brown" 4 0 "Dale Ellis" 4 0 "Kris Benson" 20 0 "Bob Uecker" 35 4 "Oakland Raiders" 1291 32 Grand Totals 1388 39 I may have the 4 of Uecker wrong as it may have been Benson, but the grand totals are correct. If you do the test using stuff you mainly collect I bet you'll have similar results. Roughly speaking, in my test, ebay has 35.5 times more items in the titles :-) Andy, I agree with everything you said in ref to card shops. There use to be about 14 here in Marietta. The ones I remember are Marietta Cards & Coins, Coach Joe's, Card Board Dreams, Stan the Man's & Blue Gray had 2 shops. Blue Gray had one still open as of last month. Seems like there was one called the Card Shuffler also. I can't remember the names of the ones on Lower Roswell road near Sewell Park & the 120 loop, 1 at Old Canton Rd & Roswell Rd plus 1 at Town & Country. I just checked the Yellow Pages & only 6 are in Marietta now (Batter Up, All Star, B.P., Baseball Mania, Blue Gray, & The Fancy Flea. Sluggers use to be one of my favs (Chamblee?) as they had about 6 monster boxes of commons at only one cent each! I pulled out 100s of Dale Ellis, Champs, Esaskys & Dibbles along with my team sets. Ever now & then I'd see some 74s or 77s & such. There use to be 6 shops within 4 miles of me :-( The internet along with ebay & a saturated market wiped them out. Bye now. ================= Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 04:11:02 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: re: sdc editorial on card stores From: "rayluurs" My feeling toward the card show have pretty much been stated from previous rambling. I would prefer to go to card shows than the stores that we have in the Twin Cities. Mainly because the stores i have found in the twin cities deal only in new stuff and then their main business is dealing with Pokeman and Magic cards....They can't be bothered with old cards because as i was told there isnt a market in it. (apparently they havent been introduced to the 5 or so OBC memeber in the twin cities). For me I will do most of my dealing with local OBC dealer, Kurt Tourdot. His entusiastic manner toward not only his business but how he handles his customer makes you want to come back again and again. ================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:26:28 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] scd editorial on card stores To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hi- this is Linda- and here is my half cents worth(anyone i have sent cards to has sure noticed i like using old fractional demonination stamps on letters-i like giving the grossly overpaid post office employees a math lesson)-Observation #1-we need more stores like we could use more bank robbers-because all of the store owners i have observed with maybe one or 2 exceptons are highway robbers who lie, cheat ,and do any underhanded trick to buy the vintage cards for pennies then make 1000,s % profit on them when they re- sell- the extreme excessive greed of card shop owners really sickens me-i have seen a lot of them tell old people with boxes of cards to sell that these old cards nobody wants any more and offer them 5 cents a card for 52 topps, tobacco cards , old goudeys- they use the ruse that there are only new cards in their show cases and nobody is interested in old cards- i have in my 16 years of collecting cards seen dozens of dealers buy cards for pennies then mark a card $200, $300 even $500 or more when i see the same card in their cases-and have you ever seen a card shop owner who DOESN"T drive a new Lexus or Mercedes? i sure haven't- and the collectors like me have a beat up 85 chevette-NO, i am sure not financing the card shop dealers next monthly family carribean cruise vacation by buying cards he charges outrageous high prices for- i have never ever been in ANY card shop where the dealer charges a fair price for vintage cards- NEVER period.The only benefits i can see from a card shop is if they have a weekly bid board where the real value of cards is set by buyers and sellers- there the guides and hype go out the window- the value of any card is what a collector will pay for it- and i have gotten some good fair bargains for lower grade vintage cards on bid boards- i like the bid boards even better than ebay.Observation # 2 .- Don't try to win any popularity contests with dealers- if i am in a store and a guy comes in to sell and a dealer offers him pennies i make a counter offer- sure dealer tells me he pays rent on his store and for me not to conduct business by making counter offers and i tell him you are a dirty rotten thief and were to go then offer the seller to meet me outside for a fair offer- my favorite line to a card seller is "look at the shop owners car and look at my beat up 85 chevette , who do you think is going to try to make an excessive profit on your cards by paying you next to nothing and ripping you off- enough said. ================= Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 00:52:43 EST Subject: Fwd: [OBC-Ramblings] scd editorial on card stores To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM
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