================= Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:24:28 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Toronto Show; Hockey &OPC BB From: mikesportsfan@aol.com Reminder that November 9-11 is the Toronto card show. Ken Morganti is planning on joining me for an OBC assault (hopefully Carlos Alcazar, who lives in the host city will also join us)on our neighbors up north (note: I can drive south from Detroit to get to Windsor,, and plan on driving east to go through Port Huron, Michigan and Sarnia, Ontario to get to Toronto). If you have any Canadian issues you want us to look for, especially hockey, OPC BB, Parkurst, Canadian Post, etc., send me the wantlists by Tuesday, Nov. 6. OPC BB lists should be sent to Dan Austin as soon as possible so he may post on the OPCC site. Having 1 master list for OPC BB would be mush Mike Rich ================= Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 22:11:38 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: R423 survey From: nthomas@pol.net Well guys, with some responses already, I will use this as a reason to begin my quest. If anyone has any 1950 R423s, please let me know what you have, especially with regards to number (on the front) and back color. The reason I am doing this is that in SCD, the cards are listed as having orange or the more rare purple back, yet I have some with Green backs, which I can't find listed anywhere. Any help on determining more about this timy strip cards would be appreciated. A full report (for thos who care) will follow after I hear from you guys. ================= To: nthomas@pol.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] R423 survey Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:16:12 -0500 From: abaran@perriergroup.com If you ever come across #37 Sid Gordon, please let me know. It is one of the last Sid Gordon cards that I need to complete my collection. Thanks. Andy Baran Midwest Regional Sales Manager (203) 629-7449 (Office) (203) 915-1324 (Cell) (419) 715-2406 (Fax) -----Original Message----- From: nthomas@pol.net [mailto:nthomas@pol.net] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 5:12 PM To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] R423 survey Well guys, with some responses already, I will use this as a reason to begin my quest. If anyone has any 1950 R423s, please let me know what you have, especially with regards to number (on the front) and back color. The reason I am doing this is that in SCD, the cards are listed as having orange or the more rare purple back, yet I have some with Green backs, which I can't find listed anywhere. Any help on determining more about this timy strip cards would be appreciated. A full report (for thos who care) will follow after I hear from you guys. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:21:39 EST Subject: Wilmington Mass. Shriners show To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Greetings all, Here is the latest attendance roster I have for this weekend's show: Jim Hatch: Friday (tomorrow) and Saturday Steve Rittenberg: Friday and Saturday Spike Glidden: Friday and Saturday Rick Redpath: Friday Brett Domue: Saturday Bob Donaldson: Saturday I've also heard of some interest from other folks, too. Since Saturday seems to be the day people are interested in, I'll throw out a suggestion for a noon break at the entrance of the food area (this worked out pretty well last year). I'd love to meet anyone who drops in! This show is just in the nick of time...now that golf season is over, I gotta start buying some cards! Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 22:22:13 -0500 Subject: Test test From: Mark S Talbot John Collins LMK if you are now receiving the OBC Ramble? REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * ================= Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Wilmington Mass. Shriners show Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:59:25 -0500 To: "OBC Ramblings" From: Matthew Glidden On 11/1/01 5:21 PM, Jrhatchjr@aol.com said: >Jim Hatch: Friday (tomorrow) and Saturday >Steve Rittenberg: Friday and Saturday >Spike Glidden: Friday and Saturday >Rick Redpath: Friday >Brett Domue: Saturday >Bob Donaldson: Saturday I notice a distinct lack of McGowan on that list, either the OBC or MLB version ... will Sean be able to come at least as a last-second surprise I'll update my attendance to Saturday and perhaps also Sunday, as it turns out I won't be able to make it tomorrow. If anyone sees a 1969 Pilots team poster for small money, though (ha!), I'll pay you back! OBC: Because every card is "one of one" ================= Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 02:45:31 EST Subject: More from our heroes! To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: HMorgan707@aol.com Chicago Cubs outfielder Andre Dawson on being a role model: "I want all the kids to do what I do, to look up to me. I want all the kids to copulate me." New Orleans Saint RB George Rogers when asked about the upcoming season: "I want to rush for 1,000 or 1,500 yards, whichever comes first." Football commentator and former player Joe Theismann 1996: "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." Senior basketball player at the University of "I'm going to graduate on time, no matter how long it takes." Bill Peterson, a Florida State football coach: "You guys line up alphabetically by height." And "You guys pair up in groups of three, then line up in a circle." Stu Grimson, Chicago Blackhawks left wing, explaining why he keeps a color photo of himself above his locker: **** (My favorite) "That's so when I forget how to spell my name, I can still find my clothes." Shaquille O'Neal on whether he had visited the Parthenon during his visit to Greece: "I can't really remember the names of the clubs that we went to." Shaquille O'Neal, on his lack of championships: "I've won at every level, except college and pro." Lou Duva, veteran boxing trainer, on the Spartan training regime of heavyweight Andrew Golota: "He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is." Pat Williams, Orlando Magic general manager, on his team's 7-27 record in 1992: "We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. As general manager, I just can't figure out where else to play." Chuck Nevitt, North Carolina State basketball player, explaining to Coach Jim Valvano why he appeared nervous at practice: "My sister's expecting a baby, and I don't know if I'm going to be an uncle or an aunt." Jim Finks, New Orleans Saints General Manager, when asked after a loss what he thought of the refs: "I'm not allowed to comment on lousy no good officiating." Alan Kulwicki, stock car racer, on racing Saturday nights as opposed to Sunday afternoons: "It's basically the same, just darker." Torrin Polk, University of Houston receiver, on his coach, John Jenkins: "He treats us like men. He lets us wear Shelby Metcalf, basketball coach at Texas A&M, recounting what he told a player who received four F's and one D: "Son, looks to me like you're spending too much time on one And the Gem Oiler coach Bum Phillips when asked by Bob Costas why he takes his wife on all road trips, Phillips responded: "Because she is too damn ugly to kiss good bye. ================= Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:56:11 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Who is this guy? From: Josephine Sue Young http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1027113844 Although this card may be beautiful to us, very good looks to be quite a stretch...must not know how to grade...not your avg ebay overgrader though I guess...it's Bill Henderson. It seems like the two worst sellers I've ever seen on ebay are Bill Henderson and Kit Young. Aren't these guys supposed to know something about cards? Isn't he one of the OBC recommended dealers? Hate to recommend somebody who grossly overgrades cards. Anyone else have an opinion? ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who is this guy? Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 07:18:47 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" At least he put the picture up. I notice that cards posted without a picture rarely sell well. Most dealers overgrade their cards. That's not a defense of Henderson, but he is not unusual in that respect. I think I tolerate Henderson because he deals in commons and does not shy away from off-grade cards. Although I don't think he deals on eBay, my experience with Larry Fritch is even worse. Every card I have gotten from him has been worse than described. In his latest catalog he lists many Seattle Popcorn cards which are tough to find. When I find them around here I get them for about $15 if EX and $5 or under if they are beaters. Larry lists one as "Bill Kennedy (EX w/tape shn frt, w/punch hole $37.50). Let's see Bill Henderson topy that one. -Dave Fallen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josephine Sue Young" To: Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 6:56 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Who is this guy? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1027113844 > Although this card may be beautiful to us, very good looks to be quite a > stretch...must not know how to grade...not your avg ebay overgrader though > I guess...it's Bill Henderson. It seems like the two worst sellers I've > ever seen on ebay are Bill Henderson and Kit Young. Aren't these guys > supposed to know something about cards? Isn't he one of the OBC > recommended dealers? Hate to recommend somebody who grossly overgrades > cards. Anyone else have an opinion? > Mac > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Who is this guy? Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 07:59:44 -0800 From: "John Collins" Hi gang, This is John Collins, I am a new member, looking forward to enjoying all that is OBC. I had to kind of chuckle when I saw this post. From my experience also, most dealers do tend to overgrade slightly, but none worse than Bill Henderson. I have bought from Bill once in the past and was basically satisfied with the grading then (although the '56 Berra I got from him was delivered to me in a plain white envelope sticking more than halfway out of the top loader he had sent it in -- how the card didn't get damaged was a minor postal miracle). Here lately, though, I have run across several of his ebay listings where he always seems to be off by almost a whole grade. A card that I would call VG, he calls EX, a card I would call G, he calls VG-EX, so on and so forth. I have called him on it several times, and he will often e-mail me back and admit that he must have "missed that one" and will agree with my acessment of the grading. If you will notice, many of Bill's ebay cards have been listed, re-listed, and re-listed again without selling. The price is often as wrong as the grade. Unless I am missing something, he doesn't do terribly well off online sales. Bill is one of the older dealers who, like Kit Young and Larry Fritsch, have been around the hobby long before slabbing and the current UV /insert card craze, etc. and is kind of set in his ways. I would guess he still gets the majority of his business as the "King of Commons," selling lots of cards mail order and through his catalogs. Larry Fritsch is almost the same story. A couple of years ago I bought a '56 Whitey Ford from his "3-grade sale" that was advertised as VG-EX. Sometime more than 2 weeks after paying about $60 with a money order, the card arrived. When I saw it, VG-EX was a stretch. Weak VG would have been more appropriate. I soon realized that I had paid way too much. The card I received would be no more than a $25-30 card on ebay today, but that was before ebay was really established, and I hadn't yet bought anything online. I would guess some of these established dealers are still good resources for commons and large quantities of cards, but my advice for anything of star quality or large dollar is still to go to ebay. Shop around for a week or so and it has been my experience that you can find a bargain on almost anything (unless you were the person that bought that '52 Mantle that was torn in half for more than $1000.......) Just wanted to share a few experiences, I think I am going to like this OBC-Ramblings thing !!! (I can sure ramble....) >--- Original Message --- >From: Josephine Sue Young >To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Date: 11/2/01 4:56:11 AM >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1027113844 >Although this card may be beautiful to us, very good looks to be quite a >stretch...must not know how to grade...not your avg ebay overgrader >I guess...it's Bill Henderson.  It seems like the two worst sellers I've >ever seen on ebay are Bill Henderson and Kit Young.  Aren't these guys >supposed to know something about cards?  Isn't he one of the >recommended dealers?  Hate to recommend somebody who grossly >cards.  Anyone else have an opinion? > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Who is this guy? Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 12:29:09 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Yes, Bill's embarrassing himself with these Goudeys he's currently running. You'd think that when almost none of them sold, week after week after week, he'd realize that his prices and grading are out of line. Meanwhile he's paying more in ebay fees than he's making on these cards. Well, if he's that clueless, he deserves it. John's absolutely right about a lot of these old-style dealers. Sadly, Gar Miller is another. I know some OBCers are loyal to Gar, and I like him personally, but I've found he does a lousy job grading cards, and then protecting them from getting worse. Like most of us, I wish we were still in a hobby where condition didn't really matter, but that's just not the case. Competence with a top-loader and a padded envelope isn't much to ask from a dealer, if we're paying inflated post-1990 prices for our cards. Because these old-fashioned guys may be bad about contemporary protection technologies, but their prices certainly aren't stuck in 1985! A random ramble while I procrastinate writing what I hope is the last section of my book.... thanks for putting up with it. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Collins To: Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:59 AM Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Who is this guy? > Hi gang, > This is John Collins, I am a new member, looking forward to enjoying > all that is OBC. > I had to kind of chuckle when I saw this post. From my experience > also, most dealers do tend to overgrade slightly, but none worse > than Bill Henderson. I have bought from Bill once in the past > and was basically satisfied with the grading then (although the > '56 Berra I got from him was delivered to me in a plain white > envelope sticking more than halfway out of the top loader he > had sent it in -- how the card didn't get damaged was a minor > postal miracle). Here lately, though, I have run across several > of his ebay listings where he always seems to be off by almost > a whole grade. A card that I would call VG, he calls EX, a card > I would call G, he calls VG-EX, so on and so forth. I have called > him on it several times, and he will often e-mail me back and > admit that he must have "missed that one" and will agree with > my acessment of the grading. If you will notice, many of Bill's > ebay cards have been listed, re-listed, and re-listed again without > selling. The price is often as wrong as the grade. Unless I > am missing something, he doesn't do terribly well off online > sales. Bill is one of the older dealers who, like Kit Young > and Larry Fritsch, have been around the hobby long before slabbing > and the current UV /insert card craze, etc. and is kind of set > in his ways. I would guess he still gets the majority of his > business as the "King of Commons," selling lots of cards mail > order and through his catalogs. > Larry Fritsch is almost the same story. A couple of years ago > I bought a '56 Whitey Ford from his "3-grade sale" that was advertised > as VG-EX. Sometime more than 2 weeks after paying about $60 > with a money order, the card arrived. When I saw it, VG-EX was > a stretch. Weak VG would have been more appropriate. I soon > realized that I had paid way too much. The card I received would > be no more than a $25-30 card on ebay today, but that was before > ebay was really established, and I hadn't yet bought anything > online. I would guess some of these established dealers are > still good resources for commons and large quantities of cards, > but my advice for anything of star quality or large dollar is > still to go to ebay. Shop around for a week or so and it has > been my experience that you can find a bargain on almost anything > (unless you were the person that bought that '52 Mantle that > was torn in half for more than $1000.......) > Just wanted to share a few experiences, I think I am going to > like this OBC-Ramblings thing !!! (I can sure ramble....) > Regards, > John > >--- Original Message --- > >From: Josephine Sue Young > >To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com > >Date: 11/2/01 4:56:11 AM > > > > > >htt > > > > > > > >Although this card may be beautiful to us, very good looks to > be quite a > > > >stretch...must not know how to grade...not your avg ebay overgrader > though > > > >I guess...it's Bill Henderson. It seems like the two worst > sellers I've > > > >ever seen on ebay are Bill Henderson and Kit Young. Aren't > these guys > > > >supposed to know something about cards? Isn't he one of the > OBC > > > >recommended dealers? Hate to recommend somebody who grossly > overgrades > > > >cards. Anyone else have an opinion? > > > > > > > >Mac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: overgrading Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:28:45 -0800 From: "John Collins" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1025291460 Check this one out! "5-ENM at best." Yeah, the last time I checked, a large border tear on the top of a card still qualifies it for ex-mt condition. Why not near mint? It is Koufax, after all. Perhaps the grading has something to do with the fact that this seller has 20 negatives. ================= Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 15:34:54 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] overgrading To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com In a message dated 11/2/2001 2:31:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jcollins12@triad.rr.com writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1025291460 Hey John, I think this has something to do with his lack of good sales also: VERY VERY NICE 1957 TOPPS #302 SANDY KOUFAX HOF BASEBALL CARD LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD GRADE 5-ENM AT BEST... *** We will not accept bids from bidders with a zero rating. Bidders with a 1 - 9 rating please e-mail us at sales@ahcollect.com before bidding. We request you provide us with your name,address, and a reference. *** What the heck is the difference? You take a check, hold it until it clears or accept paypal. The buyer's rating should be of minimum importance! BTW, Welcome to OBC John...Laterland.. ================= Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:13:40 EST Subject: Fwd: Question for seller -- Item #1027113844 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com I emailed Bill Henderson to let him know guys were complaining about his grading ...particularly this card. His response follows: Hi Doug Thanks for the e mail. I was surprised to hear that. When I indicate what the grade is, I usually say that it appears to be Vg but has a major crease. I would think that would help to indicate the overall appearance except for the clarification that it has a crease. Once in awhile a crease may be overlooked when running as many as 1800 items at a time. Also 99% of the time, I have a scan so the bidder has an opportunity to see what it looks like anyway. I only recall maybe 5 or 6 people this year complaining about the condition. Considering that I average 1500 items running most of the time, that's not to bad. Also the feed back indicates that I'm not having any trouble with grading. When there is a problem, I always take care of the customer with what ever he wants, either refund, credit, or return with a future credit to compensate the customer for inconvenience. It also surprises me that some OBC people brought this up since they don't what the condition is, only the price. Over all OBC members are my favorite customers because their not condition conscious. I always take care of them with special breaks at card shows I set up at. I appreciate your participation in my e bay auctions. Remember always, you will be taken care of when dealing with me Take care ================= Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 21:18:59 EST Subject: 1970 & 1971 availables To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: malsman250@cs.com Did you ever go through a period of time where you just don't seem to be able to hit anybody's wantlists? Well, I'll try it this way - please help me out and find something you want from this small pile of "black beauties" from 1971. New guys, don't be shy.... 1970Topps Availables 34 434(Alou) 1971 Topps Availables 4 44 7173 92 94 96 101 108 127 261 367 481 429 533 602 ================= Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 02:48:15 -0500 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sanity??? From: Mark S Talbot Hello All, Howard keeps us smiling often with wonderful tid bits - I thought you might enjoy this bit of humor: How to put sanity back into your life: 1. At lunch time, sit in your parked car with sunglasses on and point a hair dryer at passing cars. See if they slow down. 2. Page yourself over the intercom. Don't disguise your voice. 3. Every time someone asks you to do something, ask if they want fries with that. 4. Put your garbage can on your desk and label it, In. 5. Put decaf in the coffee maker for 3 weeks. Once everyone has gotten over their caffeine addictions, switch to espresso. 6. In the memo field of all your checks write, "for sexual favors". 7. Finish all your sentences with "in accordance with the prophecy." 8. Don't use any punctuation marks 9. As often as possible, skip rather than walk. 10. Ask people what sex they are. Laugh hysterically after they answer. 11. Specify that your drive through order is "to 12. Sing along at the opera. 13. Go to a poetry recital and ask why the poems don't rhyme. 14. Put mosquito netting around your work area. Play a tape of jungle sounds all day. 15. Five days in advance, tell your friends you can't attend their party because you're not in the mood. 16. Have your coworkers address you by your wrestling name, Rock Hard Rob. 17. When the money comes out the ATM, scream "I won!", "I won!" "3rd time this week!!!!!" 18. When leaving the zoo, start running towards the parking lot, yelling "run for your lives, they're loose!!" 19. Tell your children over dinner. "due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you And the final way to keep a healthy level of 20. Send this e-mail to everyone in your address book, even if they sent it to you or asked you not to send them stuff like this. ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Wilmington Mass. Shriners show Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 07:08:14 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" I may make it this morning for a bit, maybe. My daughters game will probably be cancelled, but I still may have to leave at 10:45. If I make it you guys will find me :) Thanks for asking about me! > >Jim Hatch: Friday (tomorrow) and Saturday > >Steve Rittenberg: Friday and Saturday > >Spike Glidden: Friday and Saturday > >Rick Redpath: Friday > >Brett Domue: Saturday > >Bob Donaldson: Saturday > I notice a distinct lack of McGowan on that list, either the OBC or MLB > version ... will Sean be able to come at least as a last-second surprise > guest? > I'll update my attendance to Saturday and perhaps also Sunday, as it > turns out I won't be able to make it tomorrow. If anyone sees a 1969 > Pilots team poster for small money, though (ha!), I'll pay you back! > -- > Spike > OBC: Because every card is "one of one" > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 14:37:55 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Overgrading From: larry.tipton@netzero.net I just looked through my binders and came to realize all my cards are in EX-MINT condition! I am a millionaire! ================= To: Subject: bill henderson and over grading Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:52:15 -0500 From: "Robert Fitts" I have bought cards from Bill for about seven years. Although I think thathe is one of the nicest people in the hobby and a true gentleman, I too find most of his cards over-graded. When I buy from him, I assume that his EXs will really be VGs and the VGs may actual be G+. rob fitts http://www.robsjapanesecards.com ================= Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:13:03 EST Subject: Washington DC detail information To: autograph1@earthlink.net, chmielep@milwaukee.tec.wi.us, From: tply@aol.com All - Below is some information regarding my detail to Washington, DC. I will provide more information when I know more: Monday, November 5, 2001 American Airlines Flight 320 Depart Oakland, Ca. 07:48AM Arrive Dallas/F. Worth, TX 01:08PM Depart Dallas/F Worth, TX 02:19PM Arrive Washington/Natl, DC 05:58PM Friday, December 7, 2001 American Airlines Flight 1373 Depart Washington/Natl, DC 12:30PM Arrive Dallas/F. Worth 02:55PM Depart Dallas/F. Worth 04:02PM Arrive Oakland, Ca. 05:51PM I will be staying at: Marriott Residence Inn, Thomas Circle, Washington DC I will be working at: US Custom Headquarters Ronald Reagan Building Office of Border Security (I will provide a better address later) My cell phone number: 510-378-4666 Margaret's cell Phone: 510-386-7302 Margaret's work phone: 1-800-272-2155 Ext. 2718 or 925-454-2600 Ext. 2718 Margaret's email at work: Margaret_Kramer@csaa.com Margaret at home: 510-797-9220 I will have a laptop at the hotel and plan to have access to AOL. Please stay in touch by email or phone. I hope to be in South Carolina for the Thanksgiving weekend for a family reunion and I do not have any other plans for now. I do know that some shift work and possible long hours will be involved. I do expect to have some time off and hope to see family and friend when possible. If you are close to Washington, DC and would like to get together please let me know. ================= Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:21:32 EST Subject: Addresses needed To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com I just sent to envelopes, mostly to guys I have never sent to before. I need current addresses for Gary Mandell, John Collins, and Jimmy parker if anyone has them. Thanks. - Doug ================= Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 13:59:03 -0500 To: larry.tipton@netzero.net Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Overgrading From: Mark S Talbot That's Great Larry!!! Maybe Bill will buy them all back from you and have them all slabbed!!! I am a millionaire as well to such great laughs from you guys - we are all "rich" to have such camaraderie. BE WELL!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * larry.tipton@netzero.net wrote: > I just looked through my binders and came to realize all my cards are > in EX-MINT condition! I am a millionaire! > Guru > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:12:59 EST Subject: Shriner's Show in Mass. To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM Hello All, I did make it up to the BIG show but I was a little late for meeting my fellow OBC'ers. I had to take Danielle to get 2 teeth pulled (which didn't go well) and got to the show about noon. After getting parked and then finding the snack bar it was about 12:15. Junior had a slice and a Coke and then wanted to look for Pokemon cards. There were plenty of vintage cards to be bought but it's tough going through a wantlist with a 7 year old. I did manage to pick up a few Does everybody else get disgusted with "Dealer Scum" or am I the problem? I look for the bargain boxes that are marked $1.00 or 6/$5.00 and start to pull out a few cards. I picked out what I want regardless of what is marked on the plastic and go to hand over my hard earned $ and the guy says "Oh no not these just the ones that aren't marked." Why are they in the $1.00 box then? This happened twice today. Luckily there are some good dealers too. One had a binder full of 1975 minis and had it marked on front 3/$1.00. I looked through and asked does that mean ANY card in the binder. Sure he says. Picked up some L. L., W. S. and stars from him. I had to leave after only an hour to get back to RI to take my oldest to the doughnut hut where she works. I wish I had more time as this was the biggest vintage show I've ever attended. Take care. Robert Pigeon ================= To: Subject: New Member of HOM Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 18:21:26 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" We are pleased to announce the selection of Charlie "Smokie" Maxwell of the Detroit Tigers as the newest member of the HOM. Guy could only hit homers on Sundays. Smokie's sponsor is Earl Kilbourne...you know, the guy who doesn't have a wantlist up on the site. Welcome Smokie, Earl is going after all your issues, and demand for Smokie items is about to take off. Information has been sent to Dan for inclusion on the site. ================= Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 22:16:40 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: HOM Nomination From: Originaleek@webtv.net Thanks to Grant for the expeditious manner in which he propelled Charlie "Smokey" (Smokie in Canada) Maxwell into the HOM. As he mentioned I will be looking for all manner of Maxwell memorabilia. Three items for the record. 1)Kilbourn does not have an e on the end. (Although my Grandfather was French Canadian, he dropped the e when he came to the 2)I'm not sure why I don't have a wantlist posted, but my mentor, Randy Griffin is investigating, so not to worry. In the interim OBCers can access my wantlist via the address below. 3)In addition to my new membership in this most auspicious group I am also a long time friend of Bill W. I know there must be others in OBC so LMK. http://community.webtv.net/OriginalEEK/OriginalEEKsHomePage ================= Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 09:30:50 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Paw Paw From: Originaleek@webtv.net Good point Bill, with a population of 3,169 and consisting of 2.5 square miles, how many people period come from Paw Paw, let alone Major League ball players. ================= Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 14:03:42 EST Subject: covering all the bases To: chmielep@milwaukee.tec.wi.us, nerdmaker@naspa.netChmielewski, TWE3@aol.com, From: tply@aol.com I am just trying to cover all the bases regarding my trip to DC. I found additional information that may help you contact me if necessary as follows: The first two days (November 6&7) will be at the hotel for an orientation in the Washington-Jefferson Room Marriott Residence Inn 1199 Vermont Avenue NW Washington, DC 2005 http://www.residenceinn.com/dpp/PropertyPage.asp?MarshaCode=WASDC Phone: 202-898-1100 (different than the one for reservations) Fax: 202-898-1110 ================= Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 14:32:40 EST Subject: GBSCC Wlimington, Mass. Show Report and thanks (long) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com As I write this, the 16th annual GBSCC show is winding down. I didn't go today, but did go Friday and Saturday. Here's a report from north of the (Massachusetts) border... FRIDAY: Arrived for the opening bell at noon. I had never attended this show on a Friday, but since I had the day off (and really didn't want to rake leaves) I decided to see if I could beat some of the weekend crowds to the bargains. Beat the crowds? Yes...seemingly a busy day for a weekday (lots of people didn't want to rake leaves, I guess) and certainly less than any weekend day. Beat them to the bargains? Not a chance! Bargains were scarce on day one: "bargain boxes" offered no real bargains and beater pre-war was nonexistent. Best buy was some 1970 high numbers for .25 each and some cards from Ron Wheeler. Was I disappointed? Hell no! I met up with Steve Rittenberg and Rick Redpath at the show. The three of us wandered desperately to find some good cards all afternoon. Steve was staying the weekend with me, so after the show he followed me back to my place for some dinner and some card flipping. The version of this game is a little different than normal. You see, Steve will dig into his dupes box(es) and hand me piles of cards: 2 from 1967 including a Pete Rose, 4 from 1969 including a Kaline and a McCovey, two from the birthyear 1970 set and 8 from 1972 (one semi-high and 7 highs)!!! Once again, Steve is a one man wrecking crew demolishing my wantlists! Thanks Steve! I did a lot better AFTER the show :-) SATURDAY: Steve and I were at the front of the line and when the gates opened, we made a bee line to Ron Wheeler's table. He had some fresh material out, most of which I will try to find homes for soon. Did pick up a W516-1 Ray Schalk for short money, which may have been a sign of things to come. While wandering around, I bumped into Bob Donaldson and Spike Glidden. OK...there's four of us here. Then, while wandering around before lunch, I saw a pile of M.P.& Co. strip cards on a dealer's table. That certainly caught my eye and when I got to the table, who was already examining them but Brett Domue!! Brett really wasn't sure whether he wanted them or not, so I decided to be helpful and offered to split the lot with him. That was good enough for him and it certainly was good enough for me: the lot included almost a full set with a bunch of dupes. At noon lunch, Brett split them VERY generously in my favor. If that wasn't enough for him, he also gave me THREE E96 cards including a Fred Clarke! THANKS BRETT!! Bob Donaldson also gave me a stack of cardboard that included hits to my 1972 and 1973 lists. THANK YOU BOB!! Spike Glidden let me go through his dupes boxes and out of two boxes, I could only find one card on my list: a 1970 Nolan Ryan!!! If that's not an SCP, I don't know what is! THANKS SPIKE!! My only regret was not meeting up with Robert Pigeon, who did end up making the drive to the show. Damn...last year I missed meeting Andy Baran and this year Robert Pigeon. Robert sent a regret (of sorts) as for the second straight year, I had an OBC package waiting for me when I got home Saturday! Robert sent along a 1969 Deckle Edge Yaz! THANK YOU ROBERT!! The afternoon session led to some other good deals. I picked up some beater T218's and T220's for real short money. As I was leaving, I walked by Randy Kniffin's table who apparently just acquired some T and E cards. I searched through the small pile and found three Obaks! I rifled through my checklist and wouldn't you know that I needed one of them!! Unfortunately, I was a nice one and he was asking a little too much for my meager guideline. I asked if I upped the price a little if he would throw in any pre-war beater. He then produced a T206 Southern Leaguer! Yippee!! An Obak hit!! Saturday night, Steve and I started going through some wantlists while listening to the Yankees get torched by Arizona. Before we knew it, Pettitte was out of the game and the rout was on. We decided that this was too good to pass up, so we went to watch the game in the living room while I helped him sort out his dupes boxes. What a night...seeing the Yanks get their heads kicked in and sorting through all of Steve's neat cards! It was great seeing everyone at the show and a pleasure hosting Steve for the weekend. This is the one show I look forward to every year and it never disappoints. It's also a great place to meet up with other OBC'ers to swap cards and stories. Thanks gang!! Same time, next year? I'll be there, for Happy Collecting! ================= To: , Subject: GBSCC Show and Thanks Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:47:58 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" I spent this Saturday at the Shriners show in the company of Spike, Steve, Brett and Jim. The show was great with lots of old beatup cardboard. I was able to do some damage to many of my older sets. However, the best part of the show by far was saying hi to some OBC members. All of whom I owe a Jim Hatch - Gives my a pile of cards from my mid 60's and early 70's Spike Glidden - Thrusts his dup box at me from which I am able to do some damage to my 55 Bowman set. Brett Domue - asks if I'm working on any prewar sets, next thing I know I've three 41 Playballs including Red Ruffing and Dom Dimaggio along with a half dozen Diamond Stars. THANKS Brett!!!! Steve Rittenburg - Hands me a brick of cards, telling me he found a few things from my wantlist. He practically cut my wantlist in half! Too many cards to mention here but they included 36 Goudeys, some 65s, a 72 Kellogs Clemente, hockey cards, football cards and some 64 commons (named Aaron, Brock, Marichial, Maris, Cepeda, Drysdale). I'm dumbfounded! Thanks Steve. Quite a day, with some great cardboard and even greater people. Thanks Guys!!!! Thanks OBC!!!! ================= To: Subject: Yankee-bashing Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:40:35 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Man, I wouldn't want to be a Yankee fan meeting a bunch of OBC guys in a dark I'm a diehard Yankee-hater myself, who will certainly be rooting for Arizona tonight. But it did occur to me after Thursday's fiasco, in between some cursing and gnashing of teeth, that if ever the inhabitants of an American city deserved the really thrilling triumphs of Game 4 and 5, New Yorkersdo this fall. I can only imagine what they've been (and are still going) through -- So spare a kind thought for them if you can.... As at this time every year, I'm not looking forward to five months with no BB. ESPN Classic and NFL foosball just don't cut it somehow. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: clearing the dining room table Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 02:19:40 From: "jeff sinclair" Hey guys, At long last I have finished my searching of member wantlists and will begin stage one of my assault Monday. No less than 46 packages will be finding there way to their targets throughout the U.S. and Canada. If you don't receive a package, my apologies as well as my frustration, go out to those of you with the "TOUGH" lists. I'd like to suggest that some of you really should include an "UPDATED ?/?/?" to your pages. It seems to me you may receive even more cards if the membership knows your list is current instead of wondering if they previously sent you a card or cards on your list. I know I need to be more diligent in that regard as well. It's time to begin my mourning over the Steelers inability to kick a fieldgoal, or two, or three, or four. Go D'Backs! do you remember the feel of the candt store steps? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 22:53:59 EST Subject: Re: R423 survey To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: dsh46@aol.com I compiled a large type list about ten years ago and i have down there is also a "blue diamond' back. i've never seen it, so i can't be sure but i saw it in a checklist from the american card catalog. ================= Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 23:21:46 EST Subject: Yankees lose To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM SOMETIMES DREAMS DO COME TRUE! Robert Pigeon ================= To: Subject: The ex-Champs Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:36:31 -0500 From: "Rick Redpath" What a World Series! How could you not like this one, regardless of which team you like and which team you don't like, and which team you wanted to Maybe, just maybe, the defeat of the New York Yankees will put an end to this whole "Yankees Suck" mentality. In my own opinion this would be a good thing. Not to get too high and mighty about it, but I think it's time for this particular form of human existence to be naturally de-selected. If you want to find things in baseball that really suck, well, be my guest, it shouldn't be too hard. The Devil Rays, for example, although it's hardly necessary to point that out. Grandstand seats in sections 1 - 6 at Fenway Park for example. That's a great ballpark, but those seats do in fact suck, and as one wiseguy pointed out, the tickets should be clearly marked "This seat sucks" right on them. But "Yankees Suck" was (let's start using the past tense now...) stupid. Pointless. Meaningless. Did I mention stupid? Even in Boston. Even at a Yankees game. Not to mention embarassing. Yes, I am embarassed when I hear the chanting, at least at my hometown ballyard. We're supposed to be good fans, knowledgeable fans, who appreciate the game and who know its history. Back in the late 1980s, when I had season tickets in the bleachers, we had some good chants. When Jim Rice would come to bat, the clowns in Section 40 would shout "6 4 3... 6 4 3..." That was pretty funny without being stupid and obnoxious and puerile and idiotic (not to get too overly opinionated or anything). When the college kids acted out the "Tastes Great" "Less Filling" ad, for about the 2000th time, the wiseguys would counter with "It Just Doesn't Matter... It Just Doesn't Matter..." Another good one. But "Yankees Suck"? Sheesh. Enough. Can we get beyond this finally? Please? Rivalries are great and great for the game. Manny Ramirez ripping a single off Mariano Rivera in the bottom of the 9th to win the game (in April!) with the crowd going nuts is great. Wanting somebody else to win the World Series for a change is great, and it has finally happened. But come on, do (did) you really HATE the Yankees? Do you really hate any baseball team? (except for the 1986 Mets of course, they really were despicable, heh, heh, just kidding...) Time to move along, folks. Let's get the momentum started. I gotta go. - Rick ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:40:30 EST Subject: Ex-Champs redux To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: t206guy@aol.com You know what? Not only are we the true core of the greatest hobby in sports but when it comes down to it, we are also (in my opinion) a true reflection of what the baseball fan should be. Referencing Mr. Redpath I must state that he is 100% correct. The series was WONDERFUL, but the whole idea of the Yankees Suck is sad. First of all one has to admit that the Yankees in fact do not suck. Second, it is a shame that the average baseball fan can't think of something more substantial to say about a team they dislike. At least they shoud be required to reference a reason other than "they suck". Finally, whether you love them or don't quite love them (and I am not a yanks fan at all) the knowledgeable fan MUST concede the following. The Yankees shape baseball. It was an exciting world series. It might have even been a great world series. (the last three games were) but you must admit that part of the ledgend of this series will be the fact that the Yankees were participating. Like it or not, an identical series between the Diamondbacks and the A's would have been great, but not AS great. The Yankees made this series better simply by being in it. How many days until pitchers and catchers report? ================= To: Subject: Part II - Canada/WA Blitzkreig Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 11:58:46 -0800 From: "Diamanti" Well Guys: I know I said something like, "read Part II tomorrow" last Tuesday when I wrote Part I, but I am combining my Part II Canada report, with a fresh, up-to-the-minute, Tacoma Dome Show report. My wife works at home on Wednesdays, and it just isn't fair to wrestle the computer from her when she's earning money for the four Diamantis to live on. On Thursday I went to card shops in Tacoma and Kent. I then spent this past Friday evening and a good chunk of Saturday at the Tacoma Dome. I returned home late last night, my large black bag loaded with cards........ But now we must return to the previous Sunday morning, at the Rainsley home, as Grant and I prepared to assault the Big One -- the name given to this latest and largest of Canadian shows, not by us, modest as Grant and I are,but by the promoters of -- the BIG ONE. (Grant had clipped out the ad andI can verify that the heading said, "THE BIG ONE.") In anticipation of the BO (this stands for the Big One - just so I don't have to have that imageover and over when I type it out, fully), Grant and I piled into the Crimestoppers van and headed to Al's motel to pick him up. Grant had, the day before, explained to me the history of the current Crimestoppers van we were currently riding in. He had pointed out to me the various serious-looking advertisements plastered all over the van -- GPS Wireless Tech, for instance. That company, Grant told me, has installed GPS technology in the van so that, say, if there was a complicated chase going on, aka "COPS", the ever-alert technicians sitting in a crime-proof bunker somewhere, could follow Grant and the bad guys, ensuring that the precision-minded Canadian helicopters would track down BOTH Grant and the bad boys, bringing a swift end to any volatile situations. Actually, said Grant, the GPS technology is in case the van gets stolen. Oh.... OK. I politely dropped the subject as it's not a good idea to wonder out loud why, or how, even themost ardent criminal, could possibly get the drop on Grant and steal his brand, spanking new, Crimestoppers van....So Grant -- there's an advertisement for the drugstore company, London Drug, on the van. What did they contribute? The van. What? They bought the van, yeah, my bride has worked for London Drug for years and they........never mind, Grant. I'm sure it's all on the up and up. (Hmmm, Grant gets a Ford executive to donate a propane-powered Explorer to the Stanley Park cops -- Grant gets a shiny new Crimestoppers van donated by the London Drug company, where his wife works...so he can drive around handing out Crimestopper mugs and little handcuff lapel pins [more on the lapel pins later], say, this guy is persuasive! Not to mention cunning, crafty and conniving...Watch out, you Canadian criminals!!) As we near Al's motel, Grant plugs in his portable phone to a device on thedash and we call Al's room, just to make sure he's ready. It is now 9 AM. Ring, ring. the audio we get is: a dropped phone noise, then unintelligiblegibberrish that pretty much sounds like swearing and snoring, all at the same time. (Grant's phone device is now on speaker mode so we can both hearand yell at Al, who sounds like he has laid the phone next to his pillow.)Al is VERY rude to us as we have awakened him. (What? Isn't he full of coffee like Grant and I are? Isn't he wide awake in anticipation of the BO? What the hell is he doing sleeping?) Grant stays restrained and coolly informs Al that we are 10 minutes away and will pick him up for breakfast. Once in the motel hallway, we are confronted by a wet-headed Al who is none too friendly. We pack him into the Crimestoppers van and head for a nearby restaurant, where all three of us order large breakfasts. (In my case, steak andeggs, hashbrowns, toast - same for Al, same for Grant but sausage instead of steak.) We all notice the plain looking bottle of ketchup on the table, and all the other tables. They must have 55 gallon drums of the stuff, I say (notice here that I said this - Al made it sound in his report like HE had made this comment), and don't even bother with labeled ketchup. (Remember now, my 14 year old son Trent is still recovering from the traumatic discovery that Canadians drown everything in ketchup...) But Grant says he doesn't like the stuff and never goes near it. Go figure.. I dispatch my breakfast in short order, head to the men's room and pay the waitress for our food. As we come out the door, I notice that right NEXT DOOR, is an Italian Pasticerrie (bakery and pastry shop). Grant had said that we were in little Italy, the older part of Vancouver. Hold on, guys, I tell them, and dart into the bakery. OH MY GOD. I start having a serious flashback to my family's trip to Italy nearly two years ago. I used to go get my wife and myself, "duey espresso" and pastries first thing in the morning in Rome. I was back there! Nobody was speaking English, the men were crabby, the women were politely efficient, and the place smelled like heaven and was crammed with goodies. Four people were ahead of me and I just stood there, remembering how fabulous all the Italian bakeries were I had visited while overseas. I ordered some biscotti to take home (which I forgot in the Crimestoppers van, later) and ordered a cannoli. "These are my favorite," the woman waiting on me, said. No bleepin' kidding, I thought, as I took the first bite of that glorious dessert, even before I stepped back into the van. Grant and Al just laughed at me, but I was in a better place, I was floating, enjoying all the sensual pleasures of a great cannoli right after a steak and eggs breakfast. Good Gawd..... We arrive at the building where the show is being held -- the place from the outside looks like a combination of a mosque, a temple, and a Greek Orthodox church. I'm wondering about this place (there's going to be a card showin here, right?) as we step into the lobby. We have to wait in line 'causethey had some strange deal where the dealers could wander around to each other's tables before the PAYING customers could enter. So I'm standing in this rather large, airy lobby, when I spot this enormously huge (remember, we are at the BO) mural/painting which fills the main wall of the rather long, two-story open lobby. It seems to be depicting some dramatic moment in history, but I don't want to lose my place in line, so I don't go read the description of the painting. I do notice that we are in the Croatian Community Center. Wow! I've been to Elks' lodges and VFW halls - I've been to American Legion Posts and Masonic Temple buildings, but nobody has the Croatsbeat when it comes to having an interesting, history-rich community centerlike this one. It was different and strange and powerful-feeling. Once inside all was a flurry, a blur of cards, tightly packed tables, and Canadian accents filling the air with eye? at the end of almost every sentence. What I quickly noticed is the descending order of cards -- HOCKEY is not only King, but Emperor, Empire, Royalty, and everything else, all rolledinto one. Next comes CFL (Canadian Football League), then NFL, then, finally, baseball, with OPC first. Hey, there WAS enough good old American baseball cards there to satisfy most everyone, except Al, who kept grumbling. I made contacts with two really good dealers, jawed with lots of people, including the BMW card guy who was only there buying, and who eventually gaveGrant three Big Ones (as in Ben Franklins) for an oddball Mantle tattoo Grant had opened as a kid, then hung onto until this show! While taking a break at the food table (two older Croat ladies cooked burgers and sold otherstuff), I overheard an aging hockey star tell a Canadian pharmacist all about the Northern slope oil exploration going on that he was involved with, in joint operation with Enron and another huge oil company. "It's 11 million just for the seismic research, then another 10 million for the drilling, with no guarantees. But the potential return can be enormous," says this Canadian hockey guy (what was his name, Grant?) in between bites of his cheeseburger with fried onions. The Canadian hockey guy was the only autograph guest and everyone knew him by name and just chatted with him without 'show promoters' hustling the guests away after 3.5 minutes, like they do at all the other shows I've been to. Another REALLY old Canadian hockey player (what was HIS name, Grant?) who played for a champion NY Rangers team, circulated through the card show, wearing a Detroit Tigers ballcap. I was sittingin front of a dealer's table making BS when this great guy sauntered up and the dealer introduced us. (What the bleep was his name, Grant?) He put his hand on my shoulder while he was talking to me -- telling the dealer andmyself, that hockey today is pretty much ruined, it's just a lot of shoving, no REAL CHECKING going on. (I seem to recall that pre-1970 hockey players NEVER wore helmets, so maybe this guy took one too many to the noggin'.....) Eventually, after Grant had zeroed in on most of the cards he wanted, and Al was all grumbled out, the three of us sat in that great lobby restingour butts, and decided to meet at a pub for some card swapping and storiesand beer and iced tea, in my case. In the course of the afternoon I had met Tiger Dave, Grant's best Canadian card buddy (how much have you spent on his cards, Grant?), who had been to the show the day before and bought, no surprise here, lots of HOCKEY cards. Al had to go retrieve his family from the mall and said he would meet us at such and such a place. End Part II - Guess What? There's gonna be a Part III tomorrow! Mike Diamanti ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:38:23 EST Subject: Not hate the Yankees? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com Not hate the Yankees? Are you a communist or something? Hating the Yankees is as American as the Cubs fading late in the season. Yankees suck is not necessary, however. Obviously they don't or we wouldn't hate them. - Doug ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 15:49:55 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The ex-Champs To: rredpath@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: JEdward@aol.com In a message dated 11/05/2001 12:38:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, rredpath@hotmail.com writes: > What a World Series! How could you not like this one, regardless of which > team you like and which team you don't like, and which team you wanted to > win. Great WS! It went down to the bottom of the ninth of the seventh game. One thing I won't miss... Paul O'neil, throwing a temper tantrum at every called strike. ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:52:52 EST Subject: Opposite of Yankees suck... To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com is Yankees BLOW!! ================= Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:00:28 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The ex-Champs To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi guys, As a Yankees fan, I agree with most of what Rick had to say. It was a fabulous World Series, and even a Yankees fan has to admit that. The Yanks battled back against a superior team and even were two outs away from winning the whole thing. And although they lost, they went down with their best. There always have been Yankees haters, but this team does not deserve that. These are not the cocky Yanks of the Reggie era, or the haughty Yankees of the 1950s and '60s. These guys had class, winning or losing. Listening to them in the locker room revealed as much. Credit was given to the D'backs for a job well done, and no excuses were made. As a sports copy editor, watching games are my business (nice business,eh?). And I sit among other editors who root for other teams but all share the same mantra: "the Yankees suck.'' I have to believe they only hate the image and tradition -- they can't hate this group of players. They are professional and have class. And they didn't quit in games 4 and 5, even when down to their final out. Simply amazing. And the same goes for the Diamondbacks. Who wouldn't want a guy lie Curt Schilling pitching for them. The man is a gamer and a warrior. Same with Randy Johnson, who came out of the bullpen and held New York in check the night after starting and winning Game 6. That is the mark of a warrior and a gamer. Who couldn't be happier for a guy like Luis Gonzalez, a Tampa-born guy who is humble, talented and has a genuine love for family and the game? I know I am thrilled for him and even mentioned it on my Web site -- with so many chumps out there in pro sports, it is great to see players who truly love the game and show some genuine emotion. Arizona fans should be proud. So in my mind, this might have been the best World Series in more than a decade, possibly two. I always thought the '75 and '86 Series were classics, but those were series that had one memorable game. This year, I could point to five games (at least) that were truly classics; taut drama and unbelievable play. So I hope the Yankee haters will end the glee and the piling on, and give credit where it is due -- to the Diamondbacks, who are truly the best team in baseball. The only thing I differ with Rick is with the Devil Rays. Hey, the Rays don't suck -- but their management sure does!! They have some nice young players, but the front office has no vision and couldn't handle a payroll properly if you gave them a billion to work with. And, they saddled themselves with a baseball park that is nice, but is located in an area that is not conducive for drawing crowds or interest. I mean, when your fan base is drawn from the Gulf of Mexico, you can't expect a lot of fans. A lot of mullet perhaps, but not fans. Hopefully they won't be contracted. Enough babble for now. When do pitchers and catchers report? ================= To: "Ramblings \(OBC\)" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Not hate the Yankees? Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:57:21 -0800 From: "Geordie Calvert" <<>> I think I'm with Doug on this. What a great series! ----- Original Message ----- From: Traderdoug@aol.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 11:38 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Not hate the Yankees? Not hate the Yankees? Are you a communist or something? Hating the Yankees is as American as the Cubs fading late in the season. Yankees suck is not necessary, however. Obviously they don't or we wouldn't hate them. - Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:07:09 EST Subject: Obak set milestone To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com As some of you may know, I've been keeping track of my progress on the T212 Obak set for the last five years or so. Every so often, I'll check my wantlist and see how many I need in each series and figure out the percentages. Well, I've reached a milestone in a big way. With acquisitions in the last week or so, I've gone over 90% complete for the whole set: 387 out of 426 cards (not including the "150 subjects" variation in the 1910 series). Not only can I now see the light at the end of the tunnel after collecting these for the last 11 years, but I have the harder to get names out of the way. Last week I traded (outside OBC) for the key example in the Obak set: a 1909 Chick Gandil. I've seen five for sale in the last five years, two of which were included in large lots that I had no hope if getting. The next toughest card is the 1911 Buck Weaver which I've had in collection for a long time. Duffy Lewis (1909) and Roger Peckinpaugh (1911) are also fairly popular, but I managed to get those guys last year. Now,the challenge is to fill in with the players I need...at a price I want to pay :-) If anyone has any examples I need, I'd be glad to trade another Obak to replace your type card. Just thought I'd share my progress with the group. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program... Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:23:17 EST Subject: Hate the Yankees?--NO WAY!!- They are the GREATEST!! To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com this is Linda Fitak- the Yankees are my team and have been since i was a little girl growing up in Elmhurst, Queens NYC- i have rooted for them through the good years and the bad- and yes there have been bad years- contrary to what you guys think the Yankees don't win the World Series every year. Wouldn't baseball be a lot better if they did-? for me at least- if you guys hate the Yankees so much then you won't need any of your Mickey Mantle cards-you can send them all to me and be rid of them- and you can start with the 52 topps # 311-- by the way the Mick is my favorite player- one Mick 565 footer = 73 wimpy Bonds- or Big Mac or Sosa or any other pretender- be rid of your Mickey Mantle cards and send them to a real Yankees fan -ME--as they say in Brooklyn- Wait until next year--Yankees in 4 against the Diamond Backs or any other team that makes it to the series- here's your chance to stand beside your statements that the Yankees suck- send ME, a life long Yankees fan your Mickey Mantle cards- and don't forget that 52!= bye, Linda ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: In the words of Hank....... Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 00:50:48 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" ....Williams, that is... "Praise the Lord, I Saw the Light" Yes, friends, I saw the light when Luis Gonzalez hit that bloop single to beat the Yankees. Now, Bob, Linda, Rick, and the rest of you Yankees fans out there...please don't misinterpret this. I have never said the Yankees Suck. They don't. That's patently obvious. However.... They are the big boys on the playground...the bullies...the guys with all the money who throw their weight around....They are the corporate line...... They have been since 1920..they most likely always will be... That's why we hate them. Everyone in this group of ours is a knowledgeable baseball fan. "Yankees Suck" might be a bit of fun, but as a reason, on its own, for disliking the Yankees it doesn't cut it. Its not something anyone here in OBC believes, but it is something we'd love to see come true. I'd love to see the Yankees back in the position they found themselves in during the second half of the '60s. Trouble is, that situation only lasted half a The Yankees are an American success story, but to get where they are, they've trodden roughshod over every other team, player, and rule ever written - and gotten away with it! (Not convinced? Read "Those Damn Yankees" by Dean Chadwin.. you'll soon get the idea) No, we don't hate the Yankees because they suck...We hate the Yankees BECAUSE THEY ARE the Yankees. No other reason necessary. And as far as those Mantles are concerned, if it wasn't for the fact that OTHER people put so much monetary value on them, I'd gladly trade you a '52 Mantle for a '67 Norm Cash (my personal all-time favorite card) any time!! Glenn Codere Glasgow, Scotland ps Gee, I hope that this message won't stop you Yankees fans from trading cards with me ........ ================= Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 20:44:54 -0800 To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The ex-Champs From: Alcazar I agree with 99.9% of what you said Rick but I must say...... At 12:36 PM 11/5/01 -0500, Rick Redpath wrote: >But come on, do (did) you really HATE the Yankees? How could you even ask that question..... a resounding.... YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES ..... with a passion.. I feel better now... Thanks for posing the question.. I speak only for myself but I think I have clarified my stance on this issue, ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:28:08 EST Subject: And now a word from the Mets fan.... To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Well that WAS quite a series, I'll put it in place with 75 and 86. The pitching was terrific from Arizona, Anderson doesn't get enough credit. The thing I found tough was to really root for the Yanks. I kept hearing "oh, its good for NY if they win". Oh pleese, it would have been better for NY if the Mets won . After 9/11 Schilling wrote this great open letter and I gained the upmost respect for the man. (anyone have a copy?) I listened on interviews... how could you not love this guy? I love guys like Counsell. The Yanks played crappy D, Soriano has to be the worst 2B I've ever seen. Don't tell me about the diving plays, he can't pick up a ball hit right to him. If he wasn't so close to first, he'd have more errors. You have to respect Jeter, who I now consider a young veteran. The guys leaves it on the field every day. Tino is clutch, they don't need Giambi (the Mets do!). In the 9th inning, I kept thinking out loud, "This is where the Diamondbacks are going th pay back the Yanks...I just have a feeling. What I was really hoping for was a Gonzalez fly to mid right, Spencer throws out the runner at home, and the game goes 20 innings. (Oh BTW its about 102 days until pitchers and catchers report). All I wanted was a great series, and that is what I got. No tears for the Yanks, a good feeling for the D-backs. I'm gonna miss O'Neil. I want a guy with his intensity on my team anyday. And no, this team was not bought (as happened in the past). Yes they keep more of their players because of $$$, but everyone in the starting lineup came via trade or farm system. Only one is Mussina, I think. Cashman has done a great job here, I respect that. But, alas, there still is no joy in Met-ville. We've set up tee times for the Yanks starting Wed. :).... ================= Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 19:47:43 -0600 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: World Series From: Michael Wierzbicki Hats off to the D-Backs on a great win! Was this the best series since 1975? (Maybe this should be a new poll question). It certainly will be one that lives on in the memories of baseball fans. I rooted for the D-Backs (and would have rooted for anyone playing the Yanks). I have always liked Joe Torre (since his rookie days as a Brave) and must admit that the current Yankees are not as obnoxious as many of their teams of years past. Still, I have a hard time forgiving the Yankees for beating the 1958 Milwaukee Braves. How could the Braves lose that one, after being up 3-1? Oh, well. Hope the wait for Spring training isn't too long. ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:58:38 EST Subject: V 02 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com (Tentative) Plans for Vegas 02 are soon to be well under way, barring any We are looking at May 17-19 for the official (as it gets) activities with traditional yet unofficial activities on either end of it. We don't know yet if the 51s will be in town, but then again, we are not sure when Al will show up either : ) . As we talk some last year, Maragret is looking into a post V02 Cruise leaving from LA. It would be a 4 day cruise and go to ports in Mexico. You are certainly welcome to attend V02 without the cruise,but if you are interested in the cruise let me know so we can give Maragret some idea if there is an interest in it. This will be the 7th year for this event, and all are welcome! There will be the usual ribfest, trading session, baseball game, trip to the craps table, golf tourney, Holy Cow lunch , trip to the card shop and the newest of traditions, closing ceremonies at Hooters. Hope you all can attend, LMK if you have an interest. Rest well, ================= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 02:27:38 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Damnyankees From: bobs7714@aol.com Since I live seven miles south of the Cincinnati Reds ballpark I can say that I have had the pleasure to see the Yankees play in the series several times. The first time was in 1961 when the Yanks took the series in five games if I remember corerectly. I got to see Maris hit a homer off Bob Purkey, see Yogi play left field, and Gordy Coleman hit one of the few Reds` homers of the series. I was sixteen at the time. No need to mention what the "Big Red Machine" did to the Yanks in the 70`s. I`m glad the National League won the series this year. The DH just doesn`t seem like real baseball to me. I think we have all witnessed a once in a lifetime presentation from "The Boys of Summer". 102 days til spring training!!!!!!!! Bob Schaub ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The ex-Champs Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:16:39 -0700 From: "Todd Knowles" As a lifelong Red Sox fan, I have more trouble hating this version of the Yankees than any other (with the exception of Clemens, who truly does suck). Torre, Jeter, Bernie, Rivera are all class acts. I must say I was rooting for the D-Backs, but it was such a great series, it truly was a shame someone had to lose. Mike Morgan's name was brought up recently. After 22 years in the Majors he gets a World Series ring. Not quite Ray Bourque, but cool Only 3 1/2 months until....... Pitchers and Catchers Report!!!!! ================= Subject: Just HAD to post this one Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:32:45 -0500 To: "OBC Ramblings" From: Matthew Glidden I may be a Spike Owen collector, but I'm not THIS desperate: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1028001166 Of course, it IS a Gem-MT 10 from the legendary World Class Grading company. And Spike Owens(?) can dream about having the stats of Barry Bonds for a day! P.S. Just how much IS this guy paying in listing fees? Ouch! OBC: Because every card is "one of one" ================= Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:45:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Just HAD to post this one To: Matthew Glidden , From: Jimmy Parker Okay, whoever gets Spike in this year's OBC Secret Santa has a good idea of what to get him... Okay, seriously, as with the majority of OBC brethren, I couldn't care less about graded cards, BUT... it's pretty obvious from the photo that the front is off center, albeit slightly (but isn't that supposed to be the point of graded cards?) And even worse than that, the back is totally miscut! This World Class Grading sounds like a real winner... Later guys, Save the gum for me... > From: Matthew Glidden > Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:32:45 -0500 > To: "OBC Ramblings" > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Just HAD to post this one > I may be a Spike Owen collector, but I'm not THIS desperate: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1028001166 > Of course, it IS a Gem-MT 10 from the legendary World Class Grading > company. And Spike Owens(?) can dream about having the stats of Barry > Bonds for a day! > P.S. Just how much IS this guy paying in listing fees? Ouch! > -- > Spike > OBC: Because every card is "one of one" > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:40:26 -0500 (EST) To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Just HAD to post this one From: Neal Thomas I think you're smart to pass on this one, but if it was a HOT GEM MINT 11, you may need to rethink your investment strategies! On a more serious note, this type of UV grading stuff scares me! ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Matthew Glidden Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Just HAD to post this one Date: 11/05/2001 10:32pm I may be a Spike Owen collector, but I'm not THIS desperate: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1028001166 Of course, it IS a Gem-MT 10 from the legendary World Class Grading company. And Spike Owens(?) can dream about having the stats of Barry Bonds for a day! P.S. Just how much IS this guy paying in listing fees? Ouch! OBC: Because every card is "one of one" To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: I am not now, nor have I ever been... Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:10:20 -0500 From: "Rick Redpath" ... a Yankees Fan. Or a communist for that matter -- yikes, accused of bothin the same evening @:-). In the immortal words of Roger Clemens: "I've been I am however, a lifelong Red Sox fan. I think it's probably legally, morally, and biologically impossible for a Red Sox fan to be a Yankee fan too. But that doesn't mean I hate the Yanks. If I'm going to hate anyone it should be the Red Sox since they've caused me more grief, aggravation, heartache and heartburn over the last 35 years than the Yankees ever will in a lifetime. Only 102 days to go, eh? That sounds good. - Rick ================= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:20:10 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Not hate the Yankees? To: TraderDoug@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sweendoger@aol.com The beauty of this Series was that it allowed me to instill in my 9 year old son how fun it is to root against the Yanks.... Priceless. In a message dated 11/5/01 11:39:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, Traderdoug@aol.com writes: > Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] Not hate the Yankees? > Date: 11/5/01 11:39:46 AM Pacific Standard Time > From: Traderdoug@aol.com > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Not hate the Yankees? Are you a communist or something? Hating the > Yankees > is as American as the Cubs fading late in the season. Yankees suck is not > necessary, however. Obviously they don't or we wouldn't hate them. - Doug ================= To: Subject: A few topics Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:33:31 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" First, I repeat that I had sentimental feelings for New York this year, as I mentioned before. But I still hoped for the Angels. Maybe next year? The Yankees don't suck, but I still don't like them, and I am glad that Arizona was able to buy a Series away from them. I remember Maz hitting the dinger to win the Series in '60, but I think at least the last few games of this Series were the greatest I have ever seen. Almost down to 109 days. Linda, if I had a Mantle rookie, I would give thought to sending it to you...that's enough thought. Diamanti was really fairly accurate in his so far two part report about his trip to a foreign land to buy beaucoup cards. He hasn't even gotten to the part yet about how he managed to get all those babies past U.S. Customs, and I have the feeling he isn't done trashing Big Al yet. Great reports, Mike! Now I know what your interests really are, (food, food, and more Italian food), I promise to be a better tour guide on your next visit. We are gonna go to Nick's Spaghetti House for sure, and I have a great place in mind for This should go on the thanks page, but I feel pity for whoever gets Robert Pigeon in the Draw. Does this guy ever pack cards! Even Customs wouldn't spend the time to unpack one of Robert's offerings. If you get Robert in the Draw (Santa's Special Visit), it's likely to be well into 2002 when you get those suckers open. Note to Big Al: Al tried to send me an OPC Ozzie Smith rookie a couple of months ago, and it never made it here. I have also sent out a couple that never made it to their destinations. Today, the RCMP (yechhh...) here made a bust and arrested a couple of guys with post office box keys who have been stealing mail for months, and recovered over 10,000 pieces of stolen mail. With any luck, Al's and the ones I sent out are in there. Canada Post says the recovered pieces will be delivered, but they didn't say when.... In closing, it's great to see so much chatter again. I guess we have all been a little down recently, let's get back at it! ================= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:59:42 -0600 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Not hate the Yankees? From: Gary Pearce At 10:20 PM 11/5/01, Sweendoger@aol.com wrote; >The beauty of this Series was that it allowed me to instill in my 9 year old >son how fun it is to root against the Yanks.... Priceless. I start 'em even earlier than that. My boy is going to be born in about 3 weeks. Even in the womb, he certainly heard enough bile directed from me toward the Yankees and heard me explaining to my wife why my Yankee hatred is lifelong that he's going to want a Red Sox hat on his head when we leave the hospital! ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Not hate the Yankees? Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 05:44:07 -0800 From: "John Collins" In all fairness to the Yankee fans out there, there are several things worse than hearing that your team "sucks" occasionally every October. As has been pointed out before, they obviously don't or they wouldn't be consistent postseason performers. Besides, every Yankee fan that I know personally will get a huge proud smirk on their face every time they hear another fan say that their team "sucks." The point is, all Yankee fans know that their team does not suck, and most get giddy at the jealousy of other fans who root for teams that may be less successful, although they remind us more of what real life is like. Just my two cents. I admire the Yankee tradition and feel that their current cast of characters is a class act. It's certainly a far cry from the days of Reggie and Billy Martin fighting in the dugout, and Steinbrenner hiring the likes of Martin, Bob Lemon, and Santa Claus to manage the team all within a 3 month period. And although I wasn't around back then, I DO cherish the few Mantle cards I own simply because he was a fantastic ballplayer and those cards represent a period in time that I wish I could've seen. As far as my true baseball loyalties, however, I always have been and will remain a long-suffering fan of the Chicago Cubs (1908 World Champions, by the way). So Yankee fans, I don't want to hear any more whining about the word "sucks." 1945, 1969, 1984, 1989, 1998. Almost as many missed chances as my favorite American League team, the BOSOX. So who sucks? Yankee fans should know the answer to that question by now. Happy Trading, ================= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:57:12 EST Subject: No need for concern -- I am an OBC fan first! To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi guys, After my ramble yesterday, I got a few nnotes back that I need to address, even if the sentiments were sent in jest. We are having fun with the World Series stuff, but remember -- I am an OBC fan first! I would not stop trading with someone just because they ripped the Yanks. I love doing this too much for that. Friendship and cardboard first, then team loyalties. I, however, am less ambitious than Linda. If you hate the Yankees so much, then send me your Bobby Murcer or Horace Clarke cards LOL. I have lots of Mantles, though none before 1957. I loved Mantle and Murcer (Until I tried to interview him for a story once and he put me off -- I am better with him again now ...) Keep on trading. About 101 days until we start all over again with spring training. I can't wait. ================= To: Subject: Part III - Return from Canada/Blitzkreig Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:57:31 -0800 From: "Diamanti" Well Guys: When I left off in Part II, I was sitting in the Croatian Community Center,holding a box of cards as well as a big fat binder of cards on my lap. Grant and I made a plan with Al and Tiger Dave to meet at a pub. Dave left and Grant and I told Al to meet us just outside the parking lot as we were parked at opposite ends. We drove to Al's end - no Al. We cruised the busy parking lot (a wedding reception was filling things up) - no Al. Now Grant is starting to say bad words - I suggest we look on the street near where Alwas supposed to meet us, and there he is. ( Al must be a shape shifter or something - he pops in and out all the time! ). Grant gives him directions and off we go to the pub, where we hook up with Tiger Dave and his buddy, who collects non-sports cards. Drinks and nachos with jalapenos are ordered,and all the TVs have either hockey or football on. A bit about Tiger Daveis in order here. And Grant can correct me if I've muddied bits of it.... Tiger Dave is a bit younger than me, but his love of cards is enormous. When he talks about cards, he glows. His head is full of trivia, most learned from the BACKS of cards -- just browsing, just reading. He used to have a shop, and wants to set up another one, but mainly just so guys can come in and talk cards and pass around cards. The reason Dave hasn't had a shop for some time centers around two bad guys, who robbed Dave and his young son,around age 5, at gunpoint, back in 1991. When I say gunpoint, I mean it literally - - guns held to their heads, that is...Seems they had cased the place and demanded all the good stuff -- but some RCMPs were passing by when the call went out and immediately gave chase. 110 miles an hour, bullets flying, public endangerment, two idiots putting many people in harm's way. Result? One robber dead from lead poisoning, the other sent to jail. Overbaseball cards. Dave says CNN headlined the story -- bad guy killed over -- sportscards....So Dave is understandably reluctant to open another shop, but boy, does he ever love cards... Two hours quickly pass - cards are examined, discussed, beers and way too much iced tea is drunk. After five trips to the bathroom, I suggest to Grantthat we should maybe head to the train station. Farewells are said, we head up the stairs to the street, what the? Here's Al now, turning up, grumbling about the crappy directions and crazy streets of Vancouver. Grant checkshis watch, whoops! didn't set it back like the rest of the world did the previous night - he's an hour ahead of himself....Back to the table, more beers, more iced tea, more bathroom breaks, more farewells...eventually Grantgets me to the train station and the fun is over. Remember Crimestoppers? Grant gave me two cool Crimestoppers mugs and somelittle gold handcuffs --lapel pins. I put one set on my jacket where they could easily be noticed and also in the hopes that I might be mistaken as acop or at least a private investigator. So while my bag, which is crammedso full of cards I can hardly lift it, is being X-Rayed (that won't hurt the cards, will it?), the rather good-looking woman who is interviewing me (immigration), before I can safely board the train, says: What do you do back in the States? Oh, I, uh, I'm a Mr. Mom (good answer, Mike). I cook and chauffeur for two teen-age boys. Oh, she says. You sure you're not a cop? Huh?! Oh, the handcuffs ( I finally figure out what she is looking at ) - No, I say, a friend of mine is a Vancouver cop. Now I notice that she is smiling at me, in that knowing kind of way, with the arched eyebrow thing people do when they think you are into something that is a little too....all right then -- the machine is done with my bag and I'm gettin' on the train So I'm on the train and I'm looking through the binder of cards (that TigerDave coveted) and I'm starting to wonder about the border crossing. I fillout the customs form (you can declare up to $400 worth of bought goods from Canada). I know how much I paid for the 40 lbs. of cards in my black bag(those rigid holders weigh a LOT!) but will MY customs agent know their worth? Will he care? Will he run a card shop on the side and REALLY know what their value is? And what is value compared to "declared worth"? Hmm, sweating a little now....OK, let's think about this -- and I do -- for many slow train miles and what seems like hours but is only 30 minutes. OK, leave the binder on the seat next to me, stick with $200 declared on the form,and stick by my story that all those cards in my bag are only worth that much (to a Canadian, or to you, Mr. Diamanti?!) I mean come on, they were made in America, I'm just repatriating them, bringing them back to their Mama, that kind of thing. Canadians don't even give a damn about American cards, or baseball that much, unless they are CANADIAN cards, OPChee for God'ssake....Man, now the sweat is rolling down my ribs, better take this sweater off, no, he'll see all the sweat stains, leave it on. Make sure he can see the Crimestoppers lapel 'cuffs pinned to my windbreaker. Train stops. Another 5 minutes, or 5 hours, go by as they work their way through the train. Here he comes. I flip my passport up by my face, and hand him the customs form. Thank you, sir. It's over! He's done! He just wanted to match my ID to my face! I'm taking all these little Americans back to their home soil, where they belong! Wow, good thing I'm not really smuggling anything, I'd turn myself in, for cryin' out loud.... I would file a report on the Tacoma Dome Show, but I now realize that the report would be WAY too predictable compared with my Canadian adventures. The usual vendors were there, I had the usual conversations, and I bought cards. I also went to three card shops in Tacoma, Kent, and Seattle on Thursday and Friday. Did not see Dave Fallen at all, ran into Al briefly Saturday, at the Dome, and Al generously gave me some cards. So you see - the cards are fun, but it's the hunt, the fellowship, the unknown, that really makes baseball cards and all that go with them exciting -- especially in Canada. By the way, I'm crossing the border, in my own car, the weekend of Nov.17-18 for a smaller Canadian show. I just had way too much fun! Plus there are a LOT of Italian bakeries, bistros, and restaurants that need my attention and fussing over -- not to mention the Ramblings Reports for you all...Til then, Mike Diamanti ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: "The Book" Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:27:39 -0500 From: "John Collins" > Found this on ebay this morning: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1028546801 > Thought I would mention this to the group in case anyone is interested. "The Great American Baseball Card Flipping, Trading, and Bubble Gum Book," > which came out in the early 1970's when some people in the pre-UV hobby still saw it fit to view activities like trading and flipping fun. > I don't know how often these come up on ebay, but I figured it would probably be of interest to at least some of you. I am waiting on a copy > right now that I got through Amazon. > Regards, > John C. ================= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:21:34 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] "The Book" To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi guys, John is right about finding the book on eBay. I was fortunate enough to win one last week in an auction, and the book came yesterday and is simply wonderful. ================= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:34:42 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: New member - Al Crotte From: HeyAC@aol.com Hello OBC: This is my introductory message to the group. I'm psyched to start getting involved. I was going to wait until my wantlist link became active on the OBC web page, but I decided to go ahead and write this note first, and then wait just patiently for the link activation. I am located in Columbus, Ohio. For you Yankee fans, that's home of the Columbus Clippers (Yankee farm club). Drew Henson has been the star in Columbus ever since he played U of Michigan football (a dig on Ohio St. football, go Toledo Rockets!) and Henson played last year for the Clippers. Henson should be in the show next year. While I am not a Yankee fan, I do not HATE them, I just strongly dislike them. "Hate" is such a strong word. I am originally from Toledo, OH, home of the Toledo Mud Hens (my only fitted baseball cap by the way), I am 34 years old, and I am an attorney working in Family Law. I hope none of you will ever need me in that regard. : ) I am a season ticket holder for the Columbus Crew soccer team. They have a beautiful venue and its the best sports event for the ticket value. I am a strong supporter of Major League Soccer and the rest of the soccer community. I played college lacrosse at U of Toledo. My high school football team won the state championship (big school) in Ohio. I just tore my Achilles playing basketball a month ago and I am still in a cast. I get a walking boot around Thanksgiving and then rehab 6 weeks after that. It is very frustrating. As to my collecting desires, I have added my wantlist web address at the bottom of this note. I collect old football and basketball cards. I realize that I am a bit different in collecting desires from the rest of you, but I do have a great deal of old baseball to trade back to any of you. It was a relatively recent decision to collect only in the sports that I love. By that time, I had alrerady accumulated many older baseball cards. Bonus for all of you. I will take old baseball in trade back in case you do not have old basketball or football. See wantlist for more specifics. My favorite sports team is the Oakland Raiders. Actually, my dad has a wall of Raider memorabilia in his basemant that I have gotten him over the years. Lots of signed 5x7s and other championship plaques and such. Very cool. I am also a fan of the Cleveland Browns and got to go to 2 games this year before my injury. My sports hero is Julius Erving. I had a poster of him on my wall when I was growing up. A quality gentleman and what style on the basketball court! I wish I had hops like him. (Especially now.) My baseball likes: the Cleveland Indians and Latino baseball players such as Roberto Clemente, Sammy Sosa, and the like. I love the fact that there are over 30% Latinos in MLB. My parents are from Mexico. My baseball pet peeve is calling the championship "the World Series" without putting the actual championship on the line against other Dominican, Cuban, or Japanese clubs. Now that would be a world series. It would be such a money maker and it would market the sport In terms of world sport, basketball has pushed ahead of baseball in the eyes of the world, and it didn't have to be that way. If only MLB had the NBA's marketing machine. Even the BBC sent reporters to Michael Jordan's return game and showed that game live in England. (At a very odd hour.) I digress. Anyway, I would love to meet some of you at a show sometime. Ohio doesn't have great card shows, but I have been to 3 or 4 Nationals (Chicago, Cleveland) over my many years of collecting, and I would love to share my enjoyment of colleting with others that like that as well. Over time, I hope to meet and trade with everyone. I will stop now and ramble on later. Have a great day OBC! Al Crotte http ================= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:44:03 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Say it isn't so..... From: nthomas@pol.net Topps does it again: http://www.topps.com/enduringfreedom.html Suposedly there is a 90 card set with heroes and villians, including bin Laden! Wonder if they'll have "war-used" cards with pieces of turbins and parts of smart bombs in the cards. Wonder what a PSA 10 of Colin Powell will fetch on ebay? It's a scary world, guys! ================= Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:44:37 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Member - Al Crotte (addendum) From: HeyAC@aol.com Hello again: I noticed that my wed adress did not appear in the note. I will try again to add it here. My e-mail address is HeyAC@aol.com in case the web address does not come out in the message. I could send it on to whomever wants to take a look. Al Crot ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Say it isn't so..... Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:15:23 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Neal's right, it is a scary world, and Topps is one of the scarier elements in this part of it. Let's all boycott this set, shall we? (Shouldn't be too hard.) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 12:44 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Say it isn't so..... > Topps does it again: > http://www.topps.com/enduringfreedom.html > Suposedly there is a 90 card set with heroes and villians, including > bin Laden! Wonder if they'll have "war-used" cards with pieces of > turbins and parts of smart bombs in the cards. > Wonder what a PSA 10 of Colin Powell will fetch on ebay? > It's a scary world, guys! > Neal > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:18:58 EST Subject: Contraction? It's about time! To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: t206guy@aol.com Well, my friends, now that all the boredom and routine of the world series is over we get to what I hope will be the best part of the season. CONTRACTION! Baseball has always been a leader when it comes to other sports and now must be no different. It's time to contract! Allow me to offer a couple of options. In lieu of two eight team leagues which God intended, I would like to offer the following visionary predictions. First of all, apparently the Twinkies and the Expos are at the top of the chop block. Fortunately that information was available online since I had forgotten that Montreal was still a team. As for the Twins, I feel that the purist in me cannot allow them to be axed? Why? Because the Twins of Today are the Senators of yesterday and removing such a team from the league would mean one less patsy for the Indians to spank on a regular basis. (plus, of the teams that are on the chopping block, the Twins had the best year) I personally would like to see the Expos, Marlins and Jays removed and their talent spread over the league evenly, not unlike compost. And for goodness sakes, lets put the Brewers back in the AL. I am sorry but they just AREN'T the Mil Braves of the 50's. Those guys moved to Atlanta. Idea # 2. Move the contracted teams down to the minors. The players on those teams would either sign ML contracts with other teams or they belong in the minors to begin with. PLAYERS UNION - Although the players union has shown several times that they don't really give a rats rear about the players (or baseball's) best interests I get the feeling that the prospect of having 60 jobs chopped isn't going to make them happy. Before we remind them they turned down the chance to add a roster spot to each AL team a few years ago, (in exchange for dumping the DH) we should probably anticipate them reacting in typical fashion and throwing a fit. Out of this contraction talk will come a STRIKE. Bad news fans... Ripken is retired and Bonds has already broken the HR record. There isn't a savior this time. Because of the strike, (which will cancel the 2002 and the 2003 seasons) lesser teams will begin dropping out of the league at an alarming, but pleasing rate; further angering the MLBPA. Perhaps then they will realize that that the fans are, and have always been more interested in baseball than in collective bargaining agreements. They may also begin to understand that fans have been sick of the MLBPA since Andy Messersmith thought he was important. Most of all they can no longer empathize with supposedly oppressed millionaires that play a game for a In response to 2 years without baseball (or paychecks) They will disband the union, form a new but much weaker union and begin play in 2004 with the God approved 16 teams that managed to survive the madness. If things are truly the way they should be, there will also be a new and very tight restrictions on salary and free agency. Ah.. opening day 2004. I can't wait. At that time I will once again return to the church of baseball, pray and fast for 24 hours at the tomb of Walter Johnson, pee on Marvin Miller's grave and once again know that all is well with baseball. ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:31:43 EST Subject: The Great American Card Flipping Book To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda -i have that book-i still have my original paperback copy i bought in 1975 for $2.50 - Warner Paperback Library--but there is one book i would really like to have back which i loaned to another collector and he never gave it back- the title was something like "Investing in Baseball Cards for Fun and Profit" and the experts in the book recommended that collectors buy cards of white players because cards of black players aren't as popular and won't be worth as much- i would like to find that book again and name those "experts" who made a fool statement like that- i remember showing the book to a lot of my friends and them commenting ," i sure want nothing to do with baseball card collectors if they are racists like that" -it was the kind of book i would have expected to see written in the 20's or 30's if there was baseball card collecting then- but i remember the book was from the 80's i think- i had a lot of happy hours laughing at all the crap in that book- i would like to get a copy when i need a good laugh- bye, Linda ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:19:11 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! From: Neal Thomas Amen, brother. All I can say is: RED SOX IN 2004! ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: t206guy@aol.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! Date: 11/06/2001 02:18pm Well, my friends, now that all the boredom and routine of the world series is over we get to what I hope will be the best part of the season. Baseball has always been a leader when it comes to other sports and now must be no different. It's time to contract! Allow me to offer a couple of options. In lieu of two eight team which God intended, I would like to offer the following visionary predictions. First of all, apparently the Twinkies and the Expos are at the top of the chop block. Fortunately that information was available since I had forgotten that Montreal was still a team. As for the Twins, I feel that the purist in me cannot allow them to be axed? Why? Because the Twins of Today are the Senators of yesterday and such a team from the league would mean one less patsy for the Indians spank on a regular basis. (plus, of the teams that are on the chopping block, the Twins had the best year) I personally would like to see the Marlins and Jays removed and their talent spread over the league evenly, not unlike compost. And for goodness sakes, lets put the Brewers back in the AL. I am sorry but they just AREN'T the Mil Braves of the 50's. Those guys moved to Atlanta. Idea # 2. Move the contracted teams down to the minors. The players on those teams would either sign ML contracts with other teams or they belong in the minors to begin with. PLAYERS UNION - Although the players union has shown several times that they don't really give a rats rear about the players (or baseball's) best interests I get the feeling that the prospect of having 60 jobs chopped isn't going to make them happy. Before we remind them they turned down the to add a roster spot to each AL team a few years ago, (in exchange dumping the DH) we should probably anticipate them reacting in fashion and throwing a fit. Out of this contraction talk will come a Bad news fans... Ripken is retired and Bonds has already broken the record. There isn't a savior this time. Because of the strike, (which will cancel the 2002 and the 2003 seasons) lesser teams will begin dropping out of the league at an alarming, but pleasing rate; further angering the Perhaps then they will realize that that the fans are, and have always been more interested in baseball than in collective bargaining agreements. may also begin to understand that fans have been sick of the MLBPA since Andy Messersmith thought he was important. Most of all they can no longer empathize with supposedly oppressed millionaires that play a game for In response to 2 years without baseball (or paychecks) They will disband the union, form a new but much weaker union and begin play in 2004 with the God approved 16 teams that managed to survive the madness. If things are the way they should be, there will also be a new and very tight on salary and free agency. Ah.. opening day 2004. I can't wait. At that time I will once again return to the church of baseball, pray and fast for 24 hours at the tomb of Johnson, pee on Marvin Miller's grave and once again know that all is with baseball. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] The Great American Card Flipping Book Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:27:05 -0800 From: "John Collins" Linda, I believe I have the book you are talking about checked out from the local library right now. It is called "Making Money With Baseball Cards" by Paul Green and Donn Pearlman. Though it was written in 1989, (which may as well be the dark ages to us now considering the directions the hobby has taken since then), I did find the section on how racial bias has "kept down" the value of black star players cards to be a bit out of line, even for 1989. The book doesn't go so far as to recommend not investing in cards of black players, but does clearly state that their skin color is responsible for their cards not being more valuable, and also the fact that there "aren't many black card collectors." While card collecting may continue to be a hobby enjoyed mainly by white males (I haven't read any demographic studies lately....or ever for that matter), the idea that black star players are at all "unpopular" either then or now is clearly wrong. If that were the case, I would be trading Eli Grbas and Don Blasingames left and right for Aarons, Bankses and Mayses. The book implied that the main reason for the perceived bias at the time was that Mantle cards were valued on average 5 to 10 times more than Mays is in any given set. To me, even then it should have been clear that was mainly because Mantle was the most popular player on America's most popular team that went to the World Series (and won) almost every single year. Not just because Mays happens to be black. Think about it. What would have happened if Mantle played all his games for the Washington Senators and Minnesota Twins and Harmon Killebrew had spent 18 years in New York? Who do you think would have been remembered as more popular? Even now, Mays is much more popular than Killebrew. Just goes to show it could have been Mantle if fates were switched. I checked out the book mainly to see the differences in what was popular opinion in the hobby then vs. now. Though the book did predict things like professional grading for one, all of the racial nonsense was kind of a dissapointment to say the least. >--- Original Message --- >From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com >To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Date: 11/6/01 10:31:43 AM >hello- this is Linda -i have that book-i still have my original >copy i bought in 1975 for $2.50 - Warner Paperback Library--but there is one >book i would really like to have back which i loaned to another collector and >he never gave it back- the title was something like "Investing in Baseball  >Cards for Fun and Profit" and the experts in the book recommended >collectors buy cards of  white players because cards of black players aren't >as popular and won't be worth as much- i would like to find that book again >and name those "experts" who made a fool statement like that- i remember >showing the book to a lot of my friends and them commenting ," i  sure want >nothing to do with baseball card collectors if they are racists like that" >-it was the kind of book i would have expected to see written in the 20's or >30's if there was baseball card collecting then- but i remember the book was >from the 80's i think- i had a lot of happy hours laughing at all the crap in >that book- i would like to get a copy when i need a good laugh- bye, Linda >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:40:26 -0800 From: "John Collins" While I can't say that I am in favor of going back to the days of 8 teams in each league and flannel uniforms, I do agree with the "contraction" argument at least in the fact that baseball is getting too big for it's own good. 30 teams is fine and dandy if every one of them had the ability to be successful and draw fans (read = money). But when teams like Kansas City and Montreal are having trouble surviving, then it is time to do something. The Expos are a good example. Has anyone ever cared about that team? I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I've never met a single Expos fan in my life. When they started last season, they didn't even have a TV contract. It's time for them to go. >--- Original Message --- >From: Neal Thomas >To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Date: 11/6/01 11:19:11 AM >Amen, brother. >All I can say is: >RED SOX IN 2004! >------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- >Originally From: t206guy@aol.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! >Date: 11/06/2001 02:18pm >Well, my friends, now that all the boredom and routine of the >series is >over we get to what I hope will be the best part of the season.  >Baseball has always been a leader when it comes to other sports >now must >be no different.  It's time to contract! >Allow me to offer a couple of options.  In lieu of two eight >which God intended, I would like to offer the following visionary >predictions.  First of all, apparently the Twinkies and the Expos are >at the >top of the chop block.  Fortunately that information was available >since I had forgotten that Montreal was still a team. >As for the Twins, I feel that the purist in me cannot allow them to >be axed?  >Why?  Because the Twins of Today are the Senators of yesterday >such a team from the league would mean one less patsy for the >spank on a regular basis. (plus, of the teams that are on the >chopping block, >the Twins had the best year) I personally would like to see >Marlins and Jays removed and their talent spread over the league >evenly, not >unlike compost.  And for goodness sakes, lets put the Brewers back in >the AL. > I am sorry but they just AREN'T the Mil Braves of the 50's. >guys moved >to Atlanta. >Idea # 2.  Move the contracted teams down to the minors. The >on those >teams would either sign ML contracts with other teams or they >in the >minors to begin with.  >PLAYERS UNION - Although the players union has shown several >that they >don't really give a rats rear about the players (or baseball's) >interests I get the feeling that the prospect of having 60 jobs >chopped isn't >going to make them happy.  Before we remind them they turned down the >to add a roster spot to each AL team a few years ago, (in exchange >dumping the DH) we should probably anticipate them reacting >fashion and throwing a fit.  Out of this contraction talk will come a >Bad news fans... Ripken is retired and Bonds has already broken >record.  There isn't a savior this time.  Because of the strike, >(which will >cancel the 2002 and  the 2003 seasons) lesser teams will begin >dropping out >of the league at an alarming, but pleasing rate; further angering >Perhaps then they will realize that that the fans are, and have >always been >more interested in baseball than in collective bargaining agreements. >may also begin to understand that fans have been sick of the >since Andy >Messersmith thought he was important. Most of all they can no >empathize with supposedly oppressed millionaires that play a game for >In response to 2 years without baseball (or paychecks) They >disband the >union, form a new but much weaker union and begin play in 2004 >the God >approved 16 teams that managed to survive the madness.  If things >the way they should be, there will also be a new and very tight >on salary and free agency.  >Ah.. opening day 2004. I can't wait. At that time I will once >return to >the church of baseball, pray and fast for 24 hours at the tomb >Johnson, pee on Marvin Miller's grave and once again know that all is >with baseball.  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:33:32 -0700 From: "Todd Knowles" I wouldn't worry until the contractions are 5 minutes apart.......... ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:48:30 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Part II - Canada/WA Blitzkreig To: diamanti@whidbey.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com All - I made it to bWashington and finally got aol working. ================= To: Subject: Chicago show next weekend? Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:32:26 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Does anyone know details of the Chicago show November 16-18? Like where it is, how big, etc. If so, please LMK. Thanks, Tim ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Chicago show next weekend? Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:56:34 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Found the show info-- next question is, will anybody be going? I'll be there at least on Sunday. LMK ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:04:29 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Yankees From: Originaleek@webtv.net Hi all, Due to a technical difficulty with brain cell synapse and dendrites, I inadvertently sent my recent Ramblings to the wrong place. I'm having a rather lucid moment (or should I throw that out for vote after you read this) and will offer my commentary on the Yankees. First of all I am a Detroit Tigers fan...I know a team that sucks when I see it. Although I am a long time Yankee hater, they have a certain something that I would love to see in the Motor City. It's pride in their heritage and wearing the pinstripes. We used to have that with the "Old English D", but it left town when Phil Garner kicked Allan Trammell to the curb. Now he's done the same to Lance Parrish and there is no joy....... I have to admit, this Series was a lot more interesting with the Yankees involved. You love em or hate em but you can't ignore em. Oh yeah, did y'all hear, the Tigers have this Dumbrowski guy who has another 5 year plan. OK, cast your votes! ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:25:43 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com I say let them play next year, and the 2 (or 4) teams with the worst record (or perhaps worst attendance) are contracted. Rest well, ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:54:24 EST Subject: Contraction-- Get rid of the Dodgers!!! To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello this is Linda- the team i would get rid of first is the Dodgers- kick em' out - and give their money to other struggling teams- i hate the L.A. Dodgers - i was born in 1963 and i hope the Yankees fans never forget what those Dodgers did to us that year.Yes i was there at Dodger Stadium in the 70's when the Yankees got revenge in the World Series- But it took a long time-and the Dodgers are especially sickening to me because in 63 they beat a Mantle Yankees team- The Dodgers can go to the devil as far as i am concerned- and you know who the devil is don't you? some guy named Mazeroski! ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:14:47 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction-- Get rid of the Dodgers!!! From: Originaleek@webtv.net You got any Duke Snider or Sandy Kofax cards you want to get rid of? ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction-- Get rid of the Dodgers!!! Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:29:08 -0500 From: "John Collins" On the off chance that you were serious.... I believe that getting rid of the Dodgers would be a foolish thing for baseball to do in the realistic scheme of things. Forgetting for the moment the fact that they are one of the original 8 National League teams, and all of their great history, the Dodgers of today play in one of the biggest markets in the country and continue to have one of the largest fan and merchandising bases in all of sports. The object for baseball is to rid itself of the parts that don't work -- not parts that do work like the Dodgers. And Linda, I'm sure the '63 Dodgers did not feel sorry at all for beating the same Yankees who beat them in the Series at least 5 times during the previous 20 years. ----- Original Message ----- From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction-- Get rid of the Dodgers!!! hello this is Linda- the team i would get rid of first is the Dodgers- kick em' out - and give their money to other struggling teams- i hate the L.A. Dodgers - i was born in 1963 and i hope the Yankees fans never forget what those Dodgers did to us that year.Yes i was there at Dodger Stadium in the 70's when the Yankees got revenge in the World Series- But it took a long time-and the Dodgers are especially sickening to me because in 63 they beat Mantle Yankees team- The Dodgers can go to the devil as far as i am concerned- and you know who the devil is don't you? some guy named Mazeroski! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 03:00:48 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: What I did last summer From: alcattle@hotmail.com Being a card collector is not always easy. It can be tough to find things you want at aa price you want to pay. About 6 months ago I was spending a lot of time trolling Ebay looking for different lots. Most of which I did not collect but they were good for dups or might be something I would list and colect later. One day Dan asked why I was buying this "junk" and not working on my sets. Like lightning struck, I made a list of the 3 sets closest to being done, got prices of EX cards and put down my goal price of half that and started on the hunt. Last Saturday at the Tacoma Dome Show I found the last card from the last set on the list. 3 sets finished and I think under "book". The Stats: 1960 13 cards list price $907. 2 Mantles .... 1968 30 cards list price $457. nothing hard, just scarce it turned out. 1970 33 cards list price $241 again nothing over $50 Total 76 cards 1,605 I was a challange to find some without busting the budget and I couple of well timed hits fropm the OBC helped but 3 sets are put to bed. Now I head to 1962, the land of wood(ies) and Green (tints) Thanks, and can't wait for spring training. ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:26:11 EST Subject: re:contractions Get rid of the Dodgers To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: LUURSCJG@aol.com As a Twins fan, I find it funny that they want to get rid of my team because we aren't a viable area for revenue. What has lead them to their predicament was a failure to get their spending under control. So for the team that spends the most with the least to show for it i vote to contract the red sox :-) Sorry Neal ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:57:56 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] re:contractions Get rid of the Dodgers From: Neal Thomas We agree that the Twins should not even be considered to be part of this. They are a team with great history, a loyal fan base, and the smarts to put a decent run together despite a low budget. But I have to take issue with your Red Sox comment. What other team can you get a true-to-life soap opera, complete with love/hate relationships, team mutiny, constant back-stabbing, and a loving Nation of millions willing to follow them to the ends of the earth-- all for just over $100 million per year. Sounds like they would make the cut based on entertainment factor alone. Even in the off-season, for those of you fortunate enough to read Pedro's comments in today's Globe, they are constantly entertaining! ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: LUURSCJG@aol.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] re:contractions Get rid of the Dodgers Date: 11/06/2001 10:26pm As a Twins fan, I find it funny that they want to get rid of my team we aren't a viable area for revenue. What has lead them to their was a failure to get their spending under control. So for the team spends the most with the least to show for it i vote to contract the red sox :-) Sorry Neal ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] re:contractions Get rid of .... Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:06:08 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Ray makes a great point! Maybe we should do this: Compute the games each team has won over the past 15 years, giving bonus points for playoff wins, and a huge bonus for any World Series wins. Then divide that number by their total contract outlay over those same years. TheTwins would probably come out in the top ten by that standard. The Red Sox, Dodgers, and Rangers (take that dub-ya!!) might be in trouble :) I think it would be very unfortunate if any team that had ever won a World Series would be contracted (with the possible exception of Florida, which didn't deserve to win it). As Mark points out, the Twins are the Senators and go back all the way to the beginning of the American League. It would be a real shame to see a franchise with that kind of history disappear. I think the only thing that really makes sense is the "last in, first out" guideline. The loss of newer teams would wound baseball much less than oldteams. Arizona and Colorado are pretty strong, but the Florida expansion teams are dogs. It seems to me that Florida, Tampa Bay, and Montreal are the only sensible choices for downsizing. For what it's worth, I also think the Brewers belong in the American League. ----- Original Message ----- From: LUURSCJG@aol.com To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:26 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] re:contractions Get rid of the Dodgers As a Twins fan, I find it funny that they want to get rid of my team because we aren't a viable area for revenue. What has lead them to their predicament was a failure to get their spending under control. So for the team that spends the most with the least to show for it i vote to contract thered sox :-) Sorry Neal To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:50:16 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction-- Get rid of the Dodgers!!! To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sweendoger@aol.com Get rid of the Dodgers?....Blasphemer!! ... Only if that means Gary Sheffield is banished back to Florida. I think the real solution to baseball's problems as it relates to contraction is to disband the Brewers (instead of the Twins).... That way Bud Selig can hit the road along with his team. The guy is a disgrace to the game. Nice rug too! But then again, those billionaire owners would just prop up another yes-man that will not be impartial with the interest of "the game" at heart. ================= To: Subject: Sucks/Contraction Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:39:55 -0800 From: "yaz" I don't look at my email for one night and you guys, (and girl), go and have a 40-email discussion without me. Sheesh. I couldn't check my email yesterday because I was still celebrating the 'Oh, so sweet', defeat of the New York Yankees. Personally, I would never tell anyone, "The Yankees suck." because: 1.They don't. 2.This would give the Yankee fan I would be directing the remark to ammunition they don't need when referring to my favorite team, the Red Sox, who, by the way, do suck. I do not hate the Yankees. I do hate the fact that they almost always win, have since the 1920s, and do so largely with the help of unlimited money. A few other franchises have great gobs of money to spend for short amounts of time but not on a continued basis. Sure Mussina was the only big name they got this year but he was all they needed. Why get anyone else when you can nab the best free agent pitcher and put him with Clemens, (Trade?--come on...blackmail), Hernandez, (not exactly a farm product here $$$) and Pettitte, (Yes, a Yankee farm product from a truly great minor league system that wants for nothing because of plenty of $$$). The World Series showed that the Yankee hitting, while extremly clutch, is a big bopper or two short. Let's see who gets the best hitter available next year. It's not wrong for Steinbrenner to spend the big bucks to ensure a winner, heck, Mr. Yawkey spent tons of money himself for decades on Red Sox teams that still couldn't catch the Yanks, (until he died and the Red Sox were handled by clowns, buffoons and other assorted funny guys). No, it's not wrong, it's just too easy. Since Ruth's day it's been done this way, great players making there way to the Yankees through purchase or trade from lesser financially stable teams, (also by free agency, later). I'm glad the Yankees lost. I did not want them to even get to the World Series even in the wake of the horrendous tragedy of Sept. 11th, (we all lost that day, we all wept, we all grieve, not just the city of New York) Now, I don't weep for the Expos. The Montreal fans refuse to support them. The Twins on the other hand, have a long history in baseball that cannot be ignored. Before they were the Twins, with three WS appearences, two championships and a couple of division titles they were the Washington Senators (of Walter Johnson fame). How can Selig just disband this team when there are other cities crying for a chance? When Minnesota itself is begging for another chance? (Except for Jesse the Body, of course). Hmmmm. Hey!! I got it!! Let's contract the Yankees!!! Greg (yaz) ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:09:50 -0800 From: "Geordie Calvert" I remember when this line of thought originally started. A couple years back Mike flew into San Francisco to meet Rick & I for a Dodger/Giant game. During the game (which the the hated Giants won in the 12th on a Brian Johnson homer), Mike was nominated and elected baseball commissioner by Rick & I for the great idea of eliminating the team with that year's worst record for a series of years. Great idea then, great idea now!j ----- Original Message ----- From: topgolf@aol.com To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! I say let them play next year, and the 2 (or 4) teams with the worst record (or perhaps worst attendance) are contracted. Rest well, To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 05:25:56 EST Subject: anybody see this? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: HMorgan707@aol.com Shown only once during the pre-game ceremonies of a game pitched by the remarkable Diamondback Randy Johnson, was an enthusiastic fan's sign: 'IT TAKES MORE THAN NINE YANKS TO BEAT OUR JOHNSON' America, what a country. ================= Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:10:09 EST Subject: thanks to new guy To: , , From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi guys, A big thanks to new guy Gary Mandell, who sends along a 1968 Ray Crone and a '59 Steve Boros. Great stuff, thanks Gary!! ================= Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:08:43 EST Subject: Why i only collect reprints of Cap Anson To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda - i got an e-mail asking why i only collect reprints of Cap Anson- Why not originals?- check this out on ebay and you will know why- #1026589631--and why i collect Anson? A lot of OBC er's have esoteric reasons for collecting certain players- i collect Anson because he is the only player to have a petition circulated against to have his plaque removed from Baseball's Hall of Fame.He is the only one i know of with that honor ================= To: Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction? It's about time! Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:35:54 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" Rob Neyer at ESPN has a nice article on contraction. http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/42798.html Far as I can tell the main justifications for getting rid of the Twins seems to be to make more money for their billionaire owner. Also, this will increase the market of the Brewers, who are 35% owned by ...Bud Selig. Hmmmmm, something doesn't smell just right. ================= Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 20:04:45 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Contraction From: Originaleek@webtv.net I've been getting a little nervous with some of this contraction talk, especially the suggestions re: using the won lost records as a criteria. What would Detroit do with Comerica Park? First they take Nevin Field aka Briggs Stadium aka Tiger Stadium, now we get rumblings of a plot to take our team. Then again, perhaps we could sit out a year, then start a new franchise and 4 years later, win the World Series. I like that idea a heck of a lot better then Dumbrowski's 5 year plan. In the mean time I could root for the Indians down there with fellow OBC new- comer Gary Mandel. Gary, could we do something about that guy that beats that drum in the bleachers? ================= Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 20:25:14 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: topgolf@aol.com Okay, how 'bout this... We run a reverse lottery, ala the NBA. The Dbacks have one ball, Yankees 2 balls, all the way down to the at DRays (or the worst record) 30 balls. Hiz honor Bud draws two balls from the drum, and those 2 teams are gone. Rest well, ================= Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 19:30:15 -0600 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Contraction From: Gary Pearce At 07:04 PM 11/7/01, Originaleek@webtv.net wrote; >I've been getting a little nervous with some of this contraction talk, >especially the suggestions re: using the won lost records as a criteria. >What would Detroit do with Comerica Park? Don't worry. The Tigers aren't going anywhere.... they already have their spiffy taxpayer-supported stadium. The only places in danger of contraction are those where the owner has not been able to extort a shiny new mallpark from the local government. Based on record alone, Pittsburgh and (especially Perjurer Bud's own) Milwaukee are much better candidates to have go away. They have new parks though, so they aren't in any danger ================= Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 21:33:05 EST Subject: Card holders To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM Does anybody need some 3 X 4 toploaders? I have probably over 1000. Many are nice and clean. I've been cleaning up and need to get rid of them. FCFS there's plenty to go around. Robert Pigeon ================= To: "ramblings" Subject: I need help, anyone know a dealer they can trust? Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:44:28 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" I was about to interrupt the vintage talk with my "twice-a-year new product notification" when I got the news from my connection that the cost of a case is up $55! That is more than $4/box! That would make my delivered price to you guys $42/box. I need to know if this guy has gone money hungry on me, or if topps did, in fact, increase the price of a case by 15%. Any help will be greatly appreciated. On another note, moving the Expos to DC sounds like a great idea! The Baysox (my home town 20 mi outside of DC) are doing just great! ================= Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 03:44:01 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Christmas exchange From: bobs7714@aol.com Lady and gentlemen, Just wondering if anything has been done with the proposed Christmas exchange. I would personally like some "lead time" in case I get a hard to hit list. This would also give me time to get another part time job and/or sell my wife`s car. ;-) Bob Schaub ================= Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 03:49:22 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: TEST TEST TEST From: talbot1@home.com By request Gary Mandell has been added to the Rambles. eMail me Gary so that I am certain that you are with us!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * ================= To: bobs7714@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Christmas exchange Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 04:43:27 From: "Al Cummings" All I have heard is the Grant is running it. I know he will do a fine job again this year for the first time. I think we start out by sending Grant a private Email with our bank account number or something. Big Al in Seattle >From: bobs7714@aol.com >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Christmas exchange >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 03:44:01 -0000 >Lady and gentlemen, > Just wondering if anything has been done with the proposed >Christmas exchange. I would personally like some "lead time" >in case I get a hard to hit list. This would also give me time >to get another part time job and/or sell my wife`s car. ;-) >Bob Schaub >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= To: Subject: FW: callahan Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 20:53:28 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" -----Original Message----- From: Smartalecx@aol.com [mailto:Smartalecx@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 7:50 PM To: grains@dccnet.com Subject: callahan hello fellow obc'ers. i recently uncovered a set of callahan hall of fame minis which according to my mentor, grant rainsley, was first issued in 1950 and added to through 1956. sold at the hall of fame. i have none of the cards for those elected after 1951, am missing ty cobb, and appearantly there were 4 shots of the actual HoF bldg, of which i have 1. if any of you have this set, or know someone who might be willing to discuss it, i would appreciate your letting me know. i large stack of tiptons is being offered as a reward for valuable information. thanks, gary mandell grant: i cant send to the wantlist group since i am not a member... could you pass thos along for me? tnx ================= To: Subject: Xmas/Holiday/Justbecause Exchange Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 20:56:12 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Hey....I haven't been given the green light...I'm happy to do it if required, but I'd better know soon! (Unless you want me to start planning for next year!) ================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 06:02:50 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: "OLD" OBC list/ Wayne/ Linda/ Yankees/ Expos/ Blue Jays/ Sooners of OU From: keithsummers@webtv.net I am trying to get back on the OLD list which is: OBC_RAMBLINGS@YahooGroups.com so I can review old messages & polls. I sent a "subscribe" email plus tried it at the site. Dan & Mark say they are not moderators but apparently there are at least 2 moderators of that list. I believe Bill Wolpman is the owner, so he'd be one & I don't have his email addy. Will one of you 91 people that are still on the list, click on MEMBERS at the left side & tell me who the other moderator is. Or if you know it is you, please resubscribe me. Thanks goes out to Wayne for sending the CD I requested! I'm sure I will enjoy it when I get a reg computer but I'll stick with webtv for now (simple & no virus worries). Also to Linda who hits me with about 20 Braves & A's cards I did not have. There's at least 2 of us that have the Linda Fatik rookie card now! I have the GURU rookie (with self inflicted sandpaper scuffs) along with Pico, Grant & Pete Brito. No offense guys but Linda is the prettiest of the bunch by far! Pico (Grant's former Police Horse) takes second . Hope he is well! My 3 "least" fav A.L. teams are the Yankees, Blue Jays & the Mariners. Needless to say I was pulling for the A's in the playoffs (one of my 2 fav A.L. teams along w/W.Sox). The Braves (along with the Pirates) are my 2 fav N.L. teams so I wore the sad face again when the NL playoffs were over :-( The whole time I was thinking ANYBODY BUT THE YANKEES! It was a thrill to watch the results of game #7! As far as castoffs, I would vote for the Expos & Blue Jays but I bet several teams will be in line ahead of Toronto. Also, I would LOVE to see the World Series Champs play the Champs in Japan or any other country! Just as I would have loved to have seen the Sooners of Oklahoma play BYU in a one game playoff instead of that Co-National Championship krap a while back! I don't want to get off on a rant here Your Friend, Dennis Miller ================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 07:27:36 EST Subject: Getting a new piece of clothing tomorrow night To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: WMDpks@aol.com It's a belt. And it's black. At age 44, I actually completed a three-year karate program without any serious injuries. I made it through two forms - one was expected (the ranking black belt form) and the other one was picked at random just before the test, so I had to prepare for all of the lower rank forms. Then, two sparring matches: the first against a single opponent, the second against two opponents at the same time. That was unexpected, but the strategy was easy: just get one of the opponents in between me and the other opponent all the time, so I screened out the second opponent using the first opponent as the interference. Finally, I broke a board with a reverse punch (using the knuckles - ow) and followed that with an immediate 360-degree reverse side kick. Since it was a 360-degree kick, I made it look more impressive than it was by lining up both boards one behind the other. Luckily the first set of board-holders remembered to get out of the way. The pressure was on all through the test, because my 8-year-old son Joseph qualified for his black belt a half hour earlier in the kiddie division. Even more adorable, if possible, was 6-year-old daughter Lisa's test for 2nd degree brown belt - she's more of a ballerina than a karate fighter. We have a candlelight ceremony tomorrow evening. So, now that that's over with, I'll have more free time for card sending-out, CD improvements, and OBC/AC business that I've been missing for awhile. Wayne M. Delia, WMDpks@aol.com Grand Delta, North Atlantic Region, Phi Kappa Sigma International Fraternity "To do what ought to be done, but would not be done unless I did it, I thought to be my duty." (Robert Morrison, 1849) ================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 05:16:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Help To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: John Storman I RECENTLY TRIED TO UP-DATE MY WANTLIST ON OBC. I HADN'T DONE IT IN QUITE A WHILE AND THEN I REALIZED THAT I COULD NOT REMEMBER EITHER MY LOGIN NAME OR MY PASSWORD. I AM ABSENTMINDED JOHN STORMAN. CAN ANYONE OUT THERE HELP ME. THANKS, JOHN Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ================= To: Subject: IDhelp : Felt logo patches Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:21:24 -0500 From: "Chuck Paris" Does anyone know what the patches in the attached image are? http://members.home.net/cpfremont/patches.jpg Possibly the send-aways referred to on the insert card in the 1958 Topps set? Any help/info would be greatly appreciated. ================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:57:59 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Getting a new piece of clothing tomorrow night To: WMDpks@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Congratulations Grasshopper! Good work :), I'll be walking behind you in any dark alley's. ================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:20:28 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Share a southern league lot? From: Josephine Sue Young Fellow t206 collectors... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1029875657 33 southern leaguers with an opening bid of $700. 4 of the last 5 I need are here...Hooker, Hickman, Mullaney, Jordan. I was hoping to split the lot into 7...5 groups of 5 and two groups of 4. I'd be happy with my 4 for $100. Anybody want to share this one? If so, let me know... ================= Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:29:03 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: OBC Christmas Card Exchange From: larry.tipton@netzero.net Terry Woods began the OBC Christmas Card Exchange. Last year due to Terrys heart surgery I took it over. I just got off the phone with Terry and he is to busy to be involved right now. Grant if you want to coordinate this event I would contact OBC Facilitator Wayne Delia by email or telephone and get his ok to proceed! ================= To: Subject: Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because /Draw Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:43:43 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Okay gang, I have been given the green light to organize this. My bride says she has a program for random selection, so I will be enlisting her Two Rules: 1. No complaining to me about who you got in the draw. 2. No complaining to me about who you got in the draw. -Suggested value of package I think was $5-$10 or so, don't go crazy. -envelope to be marked clearly on the back "OBC Xmas". -no peeking until the 25th! -you MUST report your windfall to Ramblings, along with who drew your name. All you have to do, and SOON!: Choose yourself a four digit number, and send it to me. (Remember the In a few days, I will post a list: -Your number will be listed, along with the name of your victim that you are sending to. I can already tell this is going to be a lot of work, and am planning which day(s) to book off sick from work to handle this. Please let me know you are playing ASAP! And print this out so you don't forget rules 1 and 2. ================= Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 14:53:03 -0600 To: debrick@fn.net Subject: Letter from Santa From: Rick & Deb 'Hope it's okay that we sent this to everyone on our list. Thanx...Rick & Deb LETTER FROM SANTA TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, HE LIVED ALL ALONE, IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF PLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE, AND TO SEE JUST WHO IN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT, A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE, NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS, NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE, JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND, ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES OF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES, AWARDS OF ALL KINDS, A SOBER THOUGHT CAME THROUGH MY MIND. FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT, IT WAS DARK AND DREARY, I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER, ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING, SILENT, ALONE, CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE, THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER, NOT HOW I PICTURED A UNITED STATES SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HERO OF WHOM I'D JUST READ? CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, THE FLOOR FOR A BED? I REALIZED THE FAMILIES THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT, OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD, THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY, AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR, BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS, LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDER HOW MANY LAY ALONE, ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME. THE VERY THOUGHT BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE, I DROPPED TO MY KNEES AND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENED AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE, "SANTA DON'T CRY, THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, I DON'T ASK FOR MORE, MY LIFE IS MY GOD, MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP, I COULDN'T CONTROL IT, I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS, SO SILENT AND STILL AND WE BOTH SHIVERED FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT, THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR SO WILLING TO FIGHT. THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER, WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE, WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA, IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa, Japan. The following is his request. I think it is reasonable..... PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many people as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our U.S. service men and women for our being able to celebrate these festivities. Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Make people stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificed themselves for us. Please, do your small part to plant this small seed. VETERANS' DAY IS SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11th ================= To: Subject: Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw Update Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:33:13 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" You guys are awesome....thanks for the quick replies, and thanks for all the thanks for me doing this. My plan: Saturday afternoon or so, I will send out a group email on Ramblings and will simply list the numbers chosen as your secret identities. If your number is on there, do nothing, except for congratulating yourself for being so clever. If your number is NOT there, please email me with the number again and I will acknowledge you in a personal email, and advise you that you have been included in the draw. I hope we have everyone on board by then, and on Sunday, I will send out a list...your numbers will be on the left side, and there will be a name on the right side. Find your secret number, and the name to the right of it will be the person you will be sending to. I'm sure there will be some stragglers after Sunday...guys away from their machines, etc. I'll do my best to keep everyone happy. ================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:38:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw Update From: Neal Thomas Just to clarify: When can we start complainging about who we got in the draw? ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: "Grant Rainsley" Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw Update Date: 11/09/2001 01:33pm You guys are awesome....thanks for the quick replies, and thanks for all the thanks for me doing this. My plan: Saturday afternoon or so, I will send out a group email on Ramblings will simply list the numbers chosen as your secret identities. If your number is on there, do nothing, except for congratulating yourself for being so clever. If your number is NOT there, please email me with the again and I will acknowledge you in a personal email, and advise you you have been included in the draw. I hope we have everyone on board by then, and on Sunday, I will send out a list...your numbers will be on the left side, and there will be a name on the right side. Find your secret number, and the name to the right of will be the person you will be sending to. I'm sure there will be some stragglers after Sunday...guys away from machines, etc. I'll do my best to keep everyone happy. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/ltH6zA/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Pilots website Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:29:59 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" I came across this terrific website which I thought may be of some interest to OBCers. My fellow Tigers fans among you might be interested in particular in the J D McCarthy gallery (the photos were taken in Tiger Stadium) Glasgow, Scotland http://www.brandx.net/pilots/ ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was bad... Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:41:11 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" Check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1027634934 The description says Ex. Yeah, right! And if you use the buy it now option you're only pay 87.5% of book. What a deal! His other auctions are graded just as bad. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:50:34 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw From: Originaleek@webtv.net I'm sorry but I gotta ask.....what if you get a dupe number? ================= To: boreed@hotmail.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was bad... Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 22:57:16 From: "Al Cummings" It might be worth $4 but probably not, just because the guy is such a lying dealer scum. No offense to our own dealer scum of course. Big Al in Seattle >From: "Robert Reed" >To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was >Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:41:11 -0500 >Check this out: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1027634934 >The description says Ex. Yeah, right! And if you use the buy it now >you're only pay 87.5% of book. What a deal! His other auctions are graded >just as bad. >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was bad... Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:09:01 -0500 From: "John Collins" Still not that bad -- Bill Henderson would call it EX-MT. ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Cummings To: boreed@hotmail.com ; obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was bad... It might be worth $4 but probably not, just because the guy is such a lying dealer scum. No offense to our own dealer scum of course. Big Al in Seattle >From: "Robert Reed" >To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was >Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:41:11 -0500 >Check this out: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1027634934 >The description says Ex. Yeah, right! And if you use the buy it now >you're only pay 87.5% of book. What a deal! His other auctions are graded >just as bad. >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:39:29 EST Subject: J D McCarthy To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda- Glenn mentioned a site where there are photos by J D McCarthy- i would like to add i have a black plastic box with card set made from his photos- it is called " The Baseball Photographs of J D McCarthy"-- it is a 24 card set put out in 1984-Card # 4 has a neat pic of Mickey Mantle- my reason for buying the set- Linda ================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 19:43:52 EST Subject: A question for the more experienced (than me) \ Veteran members To: OBC-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello this is Linda- now that i have returned to OBC there is a question some of you old time experienced collectors might answer for me that has plagued me for a long time- i want to know why at the big shows there are all these guys with boxes of old cards to sell and they ONLY will sell them to dealers- i have approached them even when the dealers offer them an insult amount for their cards and no dealer is buying their cards and they STILL say they only sell to dealers- isn't the object to get the most money if you have cards to sell??? apparently not- an example -(i won't forget this and will never understand why the guy refused to sell me his cards) i was at a big local show and a guy had a shoe box full of cards . I have seen this guy at every show showing his cards to dealers- sometimes he sells a few- but ONLY to dealers- he had this box of old bowmans with a few of those 48-49 leaf cards- i watched him show the cards to several dealers who offered him a high of $50 for the entire box of cards-he declined their offers- i peered into the box when he was showing the dealers (to his and their visible annoyance) and noticed a couple of leaf short prints including the # 20 Sauer ( yes i know i am new to this with only 15 years of card collecting experience compared to you old timers but i am not dumb enough that i don't recognize some of the Leaf short prints) in probably VG condition AND i spotted a 51 Bowman Mantle !!!!! in creased and worn condition- there were hundreds of old Bowmans in that box-maybe 500 or more by my estimate-and some looked EX - After refusing the offers of all the dealers he showed the cards to i followed him into the parking lot- i approaced him and said i heard the best offer he got for the for ALL the cards in the box from a dealer was $50- i said i will give you 5 times that- $250 cash right now for the box- the guy without even looking at me said no thanks- i ONLY sell to dealers- and got in his car and drove away- i said to myself - then you can eat the damn ( excuse me) cards-WHY would anyone refuse an offer of 5 times what they were offered at a show by dealers which they turned down then tell me they only sell to dealers then drive away- am i living in a fantasy world where i believe people actually want to make money and will take the best offer- ??? Who are these guys i see again and again at shows who take insult offers from dealers and won't sell to the public under any circumstances?? What am i missing here??? please explainLinda ================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 20:12:01 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was bad... To: boreed@hotmail.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com It really gives us all hope that our collections are worth something monetarily ... I'm sending all my cards to Guru for official grading...I'm sure this is where he got his graded, yes that would be about a Tipton EX! In a message dated 11/9/01 5:43:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, boreed@hotmail.com writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 20:17:41 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A question for the more experienced (than me) \ Veteran m... To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com, OBC-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Some things are just inexplicable. My guess is that he is in a group like OBC and would rather trade with his friends than sell for profit :) ... I saw a guy who had an Aaron header card (from the UV infected Upper Deck set). I offered the guy like 2 bucks above "book" and I'd give him another header card for his display. I was flat out refused. Let him keep that stuff, there will come a time when that stuff will find its way to OBC... ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] And you guys thought Bill Henderson's grading was bad... Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:55:28 -0700 From: "Todd Knowles" But he says right in the description, YOU WILL LIKE. Sounds like a ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A question for the more experienced (than me) \ Veteran members Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:07:05 -0500 From: "galtemos" Possibly this is part of the guy's initiation rite, so that he can be inducted into the Dealer Gang. When a young disadvantaged lad applies for membership in a street gang, such as the Crips, or the Bloods, or the Latin Kings, he has to demonstrate his acceptability by performing an initiation rite. This often includes committing a crime against a victim, and may even require the prospect to draw blood. He is proving that he will be an enthusiastic member of their organization. Once he is accepted, he accrues all the rights and privileges of membership in that particular gang, including the right to wear their colors, and to tattoo himself with their symbols. You may have been one of the victims in this process. By demonstrating his disdain for a common collector (by this I mean that you are an ordinary person...........not a collector of "commons"), he shows his desired peers (the anointed dealers), that he is well-qualified to be accepted into their elite group. The next time you attend that show, you may find him on the other side of a > From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com > To: OBC-ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] A question for the more experienced (than me) \ Veteran members > Date: Friday, November 09, 2001 7:43 PM > hello this is Linda- now that i have returned to OBC there is a question > of you old time experienced collectors might answer for me that has > me for a long time- i want to know why at the big shows there are all > guys with boxes of old cards to sell and they ONLY will sell them to > i have approached them even when the dealers offer them an insult amount > their cards and no dealer is buying their cards and they STILL say they > sell to dealers- isn't the object to get the most money if you have cards > sell??? apparently not- an example -(i won't forget this and will never > understand why the guy refused to sell me his cards) i was at a big local > show and a guy had a shoe box full of cards . I have seen this guy at > show showing his cards to dealers- sometimes he sells a few- but ONLY to > dealers- he had this box of old bowmans with a few of those 48-49 leaf > i watched him show the cards to several dealers who offered him a high of > for the entire box of cards-he declined their offers- i peered into the > when he was showing the dealers (to his and their visible annoyance) and > noticed a couple of leaf short prints including the # 20 Sauer ( yes i know i > am new to this with only 15 years of card collecting experience compared > you old timers but i am not dumb enough that i don't recognize some of > Leaf short prints) in probably VG condition AND i spotted a 51 Bowman > !!!!! in creased and worn condition- there were hundreds of old Bowmans > that box-maybe 500 or more by my estimate-and some looked EX - After > the offers of all the dealers he showed the cards to i followed him into > parking lot- i approaced him and said i heard the best offer he got for > for ALL the cards in the box from a dealer was $50- i said i will give you 5 > times that- $250 cash right now for the box- the guy without even looking > me said no thanks- i ONLY sell to dealers- and got in his car and drove > i said to myself - then you can eat the damn ( excuse me) cards-WHY would > anyone refuse an offer of 5 times what they were offered at a show by > which they turned down then tell me they only sell to dealers then drive > away- am i living in a fantasy world where i believe people actually want > make money and will take the best offer- ??? Who are these guys i see > and again at shows who take insult offers from dealers and won't sell to > public under any circumstances?? What am i missing here??? please > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] A question for the more experienced (than me) \ Veteran members Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:17:01 -0500 From: "galtemos" Some dealers have a self-anointed aura of superiority about them............THEY have cards that you want, and they may or may not even be bothered to sell them to you. This guy may want to sort of "join the club" (the Dealer Club, that is), without actually becoming a dealer. So he ingratiates himself to the dealers by selling his cards ONLY to them, thereby demonstrating that he is very much like one of them. Possibly they reward him by occasionally giving him a jelly donut, which they always have in ample supply. When he refused to sell his cards to you, did he make sure that some "real dealers" were watching? > From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com > To: OBC-ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] A question for the more experienced (than me) \ Veteran members > Date: Friday, November 09, 2001 7:43 PM > hello this is Linda- now that i have returned to OBC there is a question > of you old time experienced collectors might answer for me that has > me for a long time- i want to know why at the big shows there are all > guys with boxes of old cards to sell and they ONLY will sell them to > i have approached them even when the dealers offer them an insult amount > their cards and no dealer is buying their cards and they STILL say they > sell to dealers- isn't the object to get the most money if you have cards > sell??? apparently not- an example -(i won't forget this and will never > understand why the guy refused to sell me his cards) i was at a big local > show and a guy had a shoe box full of cards . I have seen this guy at > show showing his cards to dealers- sometimes he sells a few- but ONLY to > dealers- he had this box of old bowmans with a few of those 48-49 leaf > i watched him show the cards to several dealers who offered him a high of > for the entire box of cards-he declined their offers- i peered into the > when he was showing the dealers (to his and their visible annoyance) and > noticed a couple of leaf short prints including the # 20 Sauer ( yes i know i > am new to this with only 15 years of card collecting experience compared > you old timers but i am not dumb enough that i don't recognize some of > Leaf short prints) in probably VG condition AND i spotted a 51 Bowman > !!!!! in creased and worn condition- there were hundreds of old Bowmans > that box-maybe 500 or more by my estimate-and some looked EX - After > the offers of all the dealers he showed the cards to i followed him into > parking lot- i approaced him and said i heard the best offer he got for > for ALL the cards in the box from a dealer was $50- i said i will give you 5 > times that- $250 cash right now for the box- the guy without even looking > me said no thanks- i ONLY sell to dealers- and got in his car and drove > i said to myself - then you can eat the damn ( excuse me) cards-WHY would > anyone refuse an offer of 5 times what they were offered at a show by > which they turned down then tell me they only sell to dealers then drive > away- am i living in a fantasy world where i believe people actually want > make money and will take the best offer- ??? Who are these guys i see > and again at shows who take insult offers from dealers and won't sell to > public under any circumstances?? What am i missing here??? please > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:26:23 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Toronto show From: mikesportsfan@aol.com Before I head off to the second day of the show (and hopefully meeting fellow OBCer Carlos Alcatraz)I wanted to check in with the group. As we have heard (and heard and heard) about the BO (the Big One) show, from Grant and Mike Diamanti (on multiple occassions). I do not know which show is bigger, but the Toronto show has approximately 368 dealer tables. I was not able to get to the show until 4:15 on Friday. The show ran until 10:00 Friday night. I am having a blast and there will be more details at a later time. I am having a decent show so far (picked up a few CFL Coke Caps, reduced the 1970 OPC BB list fromk 36 to 12; 1972 OPC down to 61, some 1962 Shirriff BB coins (identical to Salada), 1968-69 Shirriff Hockey coins, including a few shortprints and tons of trade material). Although I am having a decent show so far, certain people are having a great show. Mark talbot stopped by house Thursday night and gave me some spending money. Mark believe me the money was well spent. You will have lots to choose from, or trade for extras. I probably have around 500 cards from your OPC list; mainly 1972 & 1973. Neal Thomas, doesn't know it, but he is having an unbelieveable show. Other guys lists that will shrink include, Dan, Steve, Erik and Spike. In the 5 1/2 hours I was there yesterday, I made it through about 125 tables (of the 368). Got to go do some more searching. Today and tomorrow the show only runs 10-6. Stories of deals to follow. Mike Rich ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:43:34 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Toronto show From: Neal Thomas It always nice to know that I'm having a great show from a few hundred miles away--although I think that I am going to be up to my ears in debt to Mike when the dust clears! ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: mikesportsfan@aol.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Toronto show Date: 11/10/2001 02:26pm Before I head off to the second day of the show (and hopefully meeting fellow OBCer Carlos Alcatraz)I wanted to check in with the group. As we have heard (and heard and heard) about the BO (the Big One) show, from Grant and Mike Diamanti (on multiple occassions). I do not know which show is bigger, but the Toronto show has approximately 368 dealer tables. I was not able to get to the show until 4:15 on Friday. The show ran until 10:00 Friday night. I am having a blast and there will be more details at a later time. I am having a decent show so far (picked up a few CFL Coke Caps, reduced the 1970 OPC BB list fromk 36 to 12; 1972 OPC down to 61, some 1962 Shirriff BB coins (identical to Salada), 1968-69 Shirriff Hockey coins, including a few shortprints and tons of trade material). Although I am having a decent show so far, certain people are having a great show. Mark talbot stopped by house Thursday night and gave me some spending money. Mark believe me the money was well spent. You will have lots to choose from, or trade for extras. I probably have around 500 cards from your OPC list; mainly 1972 & 1973. Neal Thomas, doesn't know it, but he is having an unbelieveable show. Other guys lists that will shrink include, Dan, Steve, Erik and Spike. In the 5 1/2 hours I was there yesterday, I made it through about 125 tables (of the 368). Got to go do some more searching. Today and tomorrow the show only runs 10-6. Stories of deals to follow. Mike Rich To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:41:36 EST Subject: Some people just don't care (revisited) To: opc-central@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com The newest installment of our ongoing series takes us to the Great White http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1030046731 Gee, I thought I had stumbled upon something here ;-) Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:02:38 -0500 (EST) To: opc-central@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [opc-central] Some people just don't care (revisited) From: Neal Thomas Looks like I need to add a new set to my wantlists--the recently discoverd 1961 OPCs--anyone know how many are in the set--maybe it's just one? ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Subject: [opc-central] Some people just don't care (revisited) Date: 11/10/2001 11:41am The newest installment of our ongoing series takes us to the Great http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1030046731 Gee, I thought I had stumbled upon something here ;-) Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:27:33 EST Subject: I couldn't sit by... To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com So I wrote to that guy with the 61 OPC. (If you are going to BS, at least come up with something close..sheesh, check out the damn trademark date at the bottom of the card). Here's what I wrote: Please fix your ad, that card is from 1976. There is no such thing as a 1961 OPC card. Do not mislead some unsuspecting collector into believing this a "find". Thanks for taking care of this. Sometimes, its just our job as OBC members and protectors of the innocence of card collecting.... ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:14:40 EST Subject: 1944,1946,1947 Play Ball Cards???? To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda- i was at a local card show and a dealer claimed to have "some of the rarest cards ever made"--he had some Play Ball cards from 1944,1946 and 1947--i looked in Beckett and there are no cards listed from those years- the cards he was selling were #1 Don Gutteridge- 1944 Play Ball----#1 Dom Dimaggio 1946 Play Ball and # 1 Hal Wagner - 1947 Play Ball -- among others- he wanted $50 each for these cards but i suspect they are fake- the cards look like they were not made in the 1940's = the cardboard is not right -- also on the back of each card there is some writing scratched out-all in the same place in the lower part - when i asked the dealer about this he said some kid who previously owned the card in the 40's did it- but i pointed out that the writing was scratched out with a sharpie or felt tip pin- they didn't have those in the 40's -the cards feel like modern reprints- BUT what are they reprints of ?? if there were no Play Ball cards from those years--the cards don't say reprint on them- ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:15:19 EST Subject: Need help indentifying these To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM Hello All, I went out to the card shop today and bought a boxfull of beauties. In the box are a couple that I can't seem to find listed anywhere. They both measure 1 1/2" X 2 3/4". The first features Gant,3b,Phila. Nat'l on the front. The back top to bottom list Baseball Series 100 Subjects Baseball Caramels Mfg by American Caramel Co. The second card front Casey,3b Brooklyn Nat'l The back Base Ball Gum. This card is one of a set of 50 players and at the bottom Manufactured only by JOHN H. DOCKMAN & SONS Any help is appreciated and if you need/want them LMK. I was after the late 50s stuff in the box and don't think I want to start any new sets. Thanks. Robert Pigeon ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:39:22 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Need help indentifying these To: RWP521@aol.com, OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com The Gant is an E90-1 American Caramel from 1909-11 and the Casey is an E92 Dockman Gum from 1909 -- the funny part is there are 120 different E90-1s and only 40 different Dockmans so the backs are misleading.. Great finds! << The first features Gant,3b,Phila. Nat'l on the front. The back top to list Baseball Series 100 Subjects Baseball Caramels Mfg by American Caramel Co. The second card front Casey,3b Brooklyn Nat'l The back Base Ball Gum. This card is one of a set of 50 players and at the bottom Manufactured only by JOHN H. DOCKMAN & SONS >> ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:40:47 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] I couldn't sit by... To: ChicoD1@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com Please let us know if he responds. ================= To: Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] 1944,1946,1947 Play Ball Cards???? Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:42:08 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" TCMA issued Playball sets in the mid 80's. I have the 1942 set. On the bottom of the card it says 1983 TCMA Ltd. Sounds like that what the dealer scratched out. They aren't reprints, but they weren't printed in the 40's either. On the back page of the current VCBC Larry Fritsch is selling all four sets for 1943 to 1946 (180 cards) for $99.95. -----Original Message----- From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com [mailto:jazzgirl1920s@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 1:15 PM To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] 1944,1946,1947 Play Ball Cards???? hello- this is Linda- i was at a local card show and a dealer claimed to "some of the rarest cards ever made"--he had some Play Ball cards from 1944,1946 and 1947--i looked in Beckett and there are no cards listed from those years- the cards he was selling were #1 Don Gutteridge- 1944 Play Ball----#1 Dom Dimaggio 1946 Play Ball and # 1 Hal Wagner - 1947 Play Ball -- among others- he wanted $50 each for these cards but i suspect they are the cards look like they were not made in the 1940's = the cardboard is not right -- also on the back of each card there is some writing scratched out-all in the same place in the lower part - when i asked the dealer about this he said some kid who previously owned the card in the 40's did it- but pointed out that the writing was scratched out with a sharpie or felt tip pin- they didn't have those in the 40's -the cards feel like modern BUT what are they reprints of ?? if there were no Play Ball cards from those years--the cards don't say reprint on them- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1944,1946,1947 Play Ball Cards???? Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:21:41 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" Something ought to be done about this dealer! Maybe you could speak to the show organizer. Con men can't be doing the organizer any favors. As Bob Donaldson said, these cards were produced by TCMA in the 80's. They produced 8 sets between 1983 and 1985, each set covering one year from 1942 through 1949. All the sets are listed in the SCD Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards. If you can inexpensively acquire a copy of this catalog, it is much more comprehensive than Beckett, at least on the old cards. As Bob pointed out, Larry Fritsch sells the 1943 to 1946 sets for $99.95, but you know that even this price is sky-high. You can sometimes find these sets on eBay. I think I paid $10 for my 1945 set. The later years are harder to find. I've been looking for a card from the 1948 set for a couple of years without any luck. -Dave Fallen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] 1944,1946,1947 Play Ball Cards???? > hello- this is Linda- i was at a local card show and a dealer claimed to > "some of the rarest cards ever made"--he had some Play Ball cards from > 1944,1946 and 1947--i looked in Beckett and there are no cards listed from > those years- the cards he was selling were #1 Don Gutteridge- 1944 Play > Ball----#1 Dom Dimaggio 1946 Play Ball and # 1 Hal Wagner - 1947 Play Ball -- > among others- he wanted $50 each for these cards but i suspect they are > the cards look like they were not made in the 1940's = the cardboard is > right -- also on the back of each card there is some writing scratched > out-all in the same place in the lower part - when i asked the dealer > this he said some kid who previously owned the card in the 40's did it- but i > pointed out that the writing was scratched out with a sharpie or felt tip > pin- they didn't have those in the 40's -the cards feel like modern > BUT what are they reprints of ?? if there were no Play Ball cards from > years--the cards don't say reprint on them- > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:09:53 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Thanks] Thanks from central PA From: Originaleek@webtv.net Hey Neal, I'm just a rookie here remember. I have a sense that it takes months if not years to perfect the OBC vernacular & God knows how long to become proficient at the Tipton grading system. When you have been Beckettized as I have, it takes awhile. I need de-briefing time. ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:15:23 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Thanks] Thanks from central PA From: Originaleek@webtv.net From: "Grant Rainsley" To: Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [OBC-Thanks] Thanks from central PA Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:29:40 -0800 ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:55:50 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] I couldn't sit by... To: AMCOOK93@aol.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com I was thinking it may be a good idea if he doesnt respond, that we all respond for him ... "just doin' my job" ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] I couldn't sit by... Date: 11/10/01 2:40:47 PM Eastern Standard Time From: AMCOOK93 To: ChicoD1, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Please let us know if he responds. ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:07:58 EST Subject: Fwd: Question from eBay Member To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com From: Chicolini1@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:01:19 EST Subject: Fwd: Question from eBay Member To: ChicoD1@aol.com From: DCwiez@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:07:09 EST Subject: Re: Question from eBay Member To: Chicolini1@aol.com Thank you. I did not know that. I appreciate you pointing that out. I saw a "missing link? Jacques Plant represented as an actual 1950's card a couple of months ago. The bidding was at $50 or so. I did e-mail the high bidder so I'm glad there are other folks who do the same. If I get the Ted Williams card at a low price, I'll be happy but I certainly won't over do the bidding. Did you contact the seller to see what he'd say? Thanks again. In a message dated 11/10/2001 1:30:09 PM Atlantic Standard Time, chicolini1@aol.com writes: > Subj:Question from eBay Member > Date:11/10/2001 1:30:09 PM Atlantic Standard Time > From:chicolini1@aol.com > To:dcwiez@aol.com > Sent from the Internet > To member: dcwiez > From member: chicolini1@aol.com > -------------------- > I hope you do realize that the card you are bidding on is a 1976 card. The > ad is totally misrepresented. Just wanted to point it out. There is no > such thing as a 1961 OPC. Happy collecting! > (www.oldbaseball.com) ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:08:12 EST Subject: Fwd: Question from eBay Member To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com From: Chicolini1@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:05:13 EST Subject: Re: Question from eBay Member To: DCwiez@aol.com Hi DW, I have contacted the seller, and am waiting to hear from him. As a large group of collectors, we just felt it was our responsibility to let you know what we know. I'll let you know if I hear from him. You might want to contact him yourself also to express your concerns. If you ever have any questions regarding cards, check out our website www.oldbaseball.com and post a message, we'll be glad to help out! Happy collecting! Original Message Subj: Re: Question from eBay Member Date: 11/10/01 2:07:09 PM Eastern Standard Time From: DCwiez To: Chicolini1 Thank you. I did not know that. I appreciate you pointing that out. I saw a "missing link? Jacques Plant represented as an actual 1950's card a couple of months ago. The bidding was at $50 or so. I did e-mail the high bidder so I'm glad there are other folks who do the same. If I get the Ted Williams card at a low price, I'll be happy but I certainly won't over do the bidding. Did you contact the seller to see what he'd say? Thanks again. In a message dated 11/10/2001 1:30:09 PM Atlantic Standard Time, chicolini1@aol.com writes: > Subj:Question from eBay Member > Date:11/10/2001 1:30:09 PM Atlantic Standard Time > From:chicolini1@aol.com > To:dcwiez@aol.com > Sent from the Internet > To member: dcwiez > From member: chicolini1@aol.com > -------------------- > I hope you do realize that the card you are bidding on is a 1976 card.The > ad is totally misrepresented. Just wanted to point it out. There is no > such thing as a 1961 OPC. Happy collecting! > (www.oldbaseball.com) ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Some people just don't care (revisited) Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:39:26 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" In defense of the guy, I don't think he's intentionally trying to mislead anybody. I'm sure he looked at the stats on the back for Teddy and just added one to the last year that appeared to get 1961. Heck, if it was a Honus Wagner card from the same set he'd probably be selling a 1918 OPC Since I'm writing I'd like to add my thoughts on contraction. The Expos should definitely go. I don't think the Twins should. Too much history and a good young nucleus. Maybe Jeffrey Lourie (Expos owner) can buy the Twins. If he can't get the state to fund a new ball park maybe relocation is the answer. Possibly the Washington Senators again? Instead of eliminating a 2nd team how about merging the Devil Rays and the Marlins. The NHL did it in the 70's with the Cleveland Barons and the Minnesota North Stars. The FLORIDA DEVIL RAYS would have Tampa's ownership (enabling the Marlins owner to buy the Angels) and the Marlins management (because the Devil Rays management doesn't appear to have a clue what they're doing). Allow them to protect say 20 players from each team and the rest of the players would join the Expos players in a dispersal draft. Half of the home games would be played in Miami and the other half in Tampa. They should have a much better team and (theoretically) attendance would almost double because of the expanded fan base. I haven't heard anyone mention this possibility but I think it makes sense. >From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com >To: opc-central@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Some people just don't care (revisited) >Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:41:36 EST >The newest installment of our ongoing series takes us to the Great White >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1030046731 >Gee, I thought I had stumbled upon something here ;-) >Happy Collecting! Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:41:15 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: [opc-central] Some people just don't care (revisited) To: nthomas@pol.net, OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM In a message dated 11/10/01 12:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, nthomas@pol.net writes: << http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1030046731 >> That's the same card Neal sent me today. Except Neal's was the more common Topps variety. Too bad I wanted to start the RARE 61 OPC set. Grant is the fool in custody yet????? Robert Pigeon ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] I couldn't sit by... Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:17:13 -0700 From: "Todd Knowles" Damn! I was about to list my 49 Topps, 57 Bowman, and 64 Fleers on ebay. ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:23:51 EST Subject: Contraction, Relocation and that idiot Angelos To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com I believe two teams should be "contracted", and one of them should not be the Twins because of their Senators ancestry. I also believe Peter Angelos is unjustly denying a team to Northern Virginia. It is too big a pain in the a__ for people in Northern Virginia to go to Orioles games and it gets worse every year. It was hard enough before they built the Ravens stadium in the middle of the Orioles parking lot eliminating like 5,000 spaces. Most of my baseball friends in Virginia and I used to go to maybe 5-6 games a year up till about 95. With all the road construction, worsening traffic and shrinking parking -- the trip takes TWICE as long now as it did in 1995 and we end up parking a mile from the stadium somewhere in downtown Baltimore. If you've never been to Camden Yards, it's beautiful, it's the type of place where baseball was meant to be played. However, it's right on the edge of downtown Baltimore and that is not an area you want to be in after eight at night. Even my friends who live in Maryland who only have a 30 mile drive to Camden Yards go to half the number of games now that they did 6 years ago. I understand Angelos though. He knows that given the totally inferior brand of ball the O's play, and without Cal as a drawing card, attendence next season is going to be about half what it was this year and he's nervous. The fact is the DC metro area is significantly larger and wealthier now than when it lost the Senators in 1971, and this area is literally drooling for a team. Change the Marlins to the Crabs (keeping the seafood theme) and Let's Play ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:32:47 -0500 From: "John Collins" This is the reply I got from that ebay seller on the "1961 OPC" of Ted Williams when I asked him a question about it. I can't believe he is ----- Original Message ----- From: MUSTHAVIT To: Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 > Hi, we know in the latest baseball beckett, there is not listing for any > vintage O-Pee-Chee cards for baseball, but please check the Beckett > Of Baseball Cards And Collectibles, (the big thick becketts) for baseball > and you should find this card listed there. > Thanks > musthavitcollectibles. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 10:57 AM > Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 > > 1961 O-Pee-Chee huh? Then don't sell the card because you have a one of > kind item. It's probably worth millions, because there was no 1961 OPC. > > > > Have a good one, > > > > JC > > -------------------- > > > > > > Question from: topps56 > > Title of item: 1961 61 OPC O-PEE-CHEE TED WILLIAMS! LOOK! NR > > Seller: musthavitcollectibles > > Starts: Nov-07-01 17:14:33 PST > > Ends: Nov-14-01 17:14:33 PST > > Price: Currently $1.00 > > To view the item, go to: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1030046731 > > > > > > > > Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at > http://www.ebay.com > > ================= To: Subject: Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:57:08 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Here is the list of people (by 4-digit number) who have signed up for the OBC Christmas Draw. If you have already signed up, please check that your number is listed. If it is there, do nothing. If you're missing, please let me know, and I will respond with a personal email. You still have time to sign up if you want to join in the festivities. The final draw list goes out tomorrow at 6:00 pm PST. ================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:02:36 EST Subject: OBS To: OBC-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com All - I finally got through all the red tape and security issues here in Washington and actually started working today! I am now offically assigned to the U.S. Customs Office of Border Security (OBS)! I know a few folks in OBC that would fit well in OBS :-)! I will be working long hours and at least six days a week. If you are in the Washington area please call and leave me a meesage at my hotel or on my cell phone perhaps we can manage to get together for lunch or some other time. ================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 01:11:37 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] I couldn't sit by... To: tknowles@mocc.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com Heck, since I just finished my 50 topps, maybe i can sell the whole set. - ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: inactive status Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:08:18 From: "Brad Chambers" To members of the OBCAC: I am officially requesting to go inactive for a few months. I have been recalled to active duty and will be heading to EUCOM (European Command) in Stuttgart, Germany for at least 90 days beginning end of this month. Cheryl is kind of sad as you'd expect, and her Dutch Daulton posters can only give her so much comfort! I haven't been as active as I used to be or as I"d like to be due to more Navy requirements, and now I'll sure be out of the baseball card loop for a If I need to resign from OBC and ask for reinstatement at a later date I'll do so- whatever is best for the group. Someone let me know what I should do Take care and thanks again for all the support and friendship. CDR Brad Chambers, USNR Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= To: Subject: Any little goalies in the group? Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:03:38 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Fellas -- I found a few hockey cards mixed in with some football cards I was sorting.They are the UV variety (1990 I think), but they are all goalies (Hextall, Barraso, Casey, etc) and have some really nice photos. I thought they might be something neat for a kid's bulletin board or something, but my Nicholas is not a hockey fan. If anybody has a budding hockey goalie in the group, I'd love to send them along. I'll even throw in a goalie for dad too, a 75-76 Bernie Parent! Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:58:30 EST Subject: Tri-Star Show in Massachusetts Dec 14-16 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Greetings all, I cought wind of this show at the GBSCC show last week. I've never been to a Tri-Star show, nor have they ever promoted in New England. Here's the link... http://www.tristarproductions.com/shows/Bos1201/index.htm Anyone interested? I'll go for a day to check it out....or to buy something for the holiday swap :-) Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:50:12 -0500 (EST) To: kellysdad@hotmail.com (Brad Chambers), Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] inactive status From: Originaleek@webtv.net To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: "Brad Chambers" Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:08:18 Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] inactive status ================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:33:06 -0500 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Fwd: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731] From: Mark S Talbot I wrote the ebay seller also John. I think the guy finally got the message about the '61 OPC card. ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:24:36 -0500 From: "John Collins" Apparently they did list the item in good faith......... ----- Original Message ----- From: MUSTHAVIT To: John Collins Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 > Hi, sorry again, we have received couple of e-mails regarding that > auction. Auction has been killed off eBay already yesterday, it was a > customer's item and we just paid close attention to his words. From now > we'll double check in the beckett for sure info, we DO NOT try to fooled > anyone on eBay, please notify that, check our feedbacks/ratings.... we > do that kind of things. > Thanks > musthavitcollectibles. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Collins > To: MUSTHAVIT > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 > > The card you have is a 1976 Topps or OPC. Look IN THAT section of the > > catalog. You are trying to decieve ebay buyers and it won't fool the > > experienced collector, but is wrong just the same. 61 OPC, yeah right. > If > > there was a better business bureau for ebay, you should be reported. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: MUSTHAVIT > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 8:50 PM > > Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 > > > > > > > Hi, we know in the latest baseball beckett, there is not listing for > > > vintage O-Pee-Chee cards for baseball, but please check the Beckett > > Almanac > > > Of Baseball Cards And Collectibles, (the big thick becketts) for > baseball > > > and you should find this card listed there. > > > > > > Thanks > > > musthavitcollectibles. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 10:57 AM > > > Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1030046731 > > > > > > > > > > 1961 O-Pee-Chee huh? Then don't sell the card because you have a > of > > a > > > kind item. It's probably worth millions, because there was no 1961 > > > > > > > > Have a good one, > > > > > > > > JC > > > > -------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > Question from: topps56 > > > > Title of item: 1961 61 OPC O-PEE-CHEE TED WILLIAMS! LOOK! > > > > Seller: musthavitcollectibles > > > > Starts: Nov-07-01 17:14:33 PST > > > > Ends: Nov-14-01 17:14:33 PST > > > > Price: Currently $1.00 > > > > To view the item, go to: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1030046731 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at > > > http://www.ebay.com > > > > > > > > > > > ================= To: Subject: 1961 OPC Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:01:25 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" I agree the seller was acting in good faith...outstanding feedback record, just really dumb. Happens to be from Vancouver.....hmmmmm....wan't me, I ================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:37:20 -0500 Subject: Only sell to dealers??? Here's another story!!! From: Mark S Talbot Hi All, Linda wrote us about the guy who would only sell to dealers. Now here's a twist to the story. I met a collector friend that "likes to downgrade" his sets. He is a "ORKIN MAN" by day and in the winter he can be seen at the local card show because he is not as busy. Well once he set up the show and I cleaned him out and we had a long conversation. From that on the ORKIN MAN (as he is known at the show) calls me a few days before he going to a show and tells me he is bringing a box of cards to the show FOR ME!!!! That's right Linda the guy will only sell the box to me. Its kind of interesting to see the look on the dealer scum faces as they usually drool the boxes that Rob brings and usually sells to me at the price that they pat for them or below. Last Wednesday our collector friendly dealer at the - let's call him Harold (because that's his name - I've introduced Mike Rich him), even held the box that Rob brought in for me till I could get there. I rifled through about 400 cards from `55 to `74 Topps handed Rob $35 - he the $35 to Harold who hand him a stack of 100 or so '53 - `60 assorted stuff. Rob then whiffed through his stack pulled another 35 cards that "were just good to downgrade" and sold then to me for $4. I don't even have to look at stuff - at 8¢ a card who cares what they were. Rob and I have done this a dozen times in the last year or so - its an interesting story that shows us if we connect with the right folks we can beat the dealers at there own game. Thought you would enjoy hearing since we were on the subject. BE WELL!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 01:21:25 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1951 Topps Redback available From: jimbo@albany.net Anybody else working on the '51 Topps Redbacks? I have an extra Larry Jansen, #21, available to a good home. Some creases, a stain or two, but like Charlie Brown's Christmas Tree, not a bad card, really, it just needs a little love. ================= To: Subject: Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:20:11 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Okay guys, thanks to my wife, I am now really confused about Excel and other programs. I hope you all remember your numbers that you sent me. Look it up, and send to the name on the right of your number. If you have forgotten, I now have a file with all your secret stuff, so just beg me. This is by no means the end of the draw, but these numbers and names are carved in stone. Please make sure your name and number are on the list....gee, sometimes email gets lost too ya know! We double-checked everything, and it looks okay. If you aren't on the list and want to play, send me your secret four-digit number. (If you want to send me the PIN for your bank card, that's fine too.) There is still room for more players! If more players come in, a separate list will go out next Sunday. Please remember the rules, there were only two, and they were the same...no Remember to mark your envelope on the back "OBC Xmas" No peeking, or you only get a lump of coal in your stocking...or worse. 2001 OBC Christmas Draw List Sender # Recipient 0007 David Kolenda 0115 Wayne Delia 0217 Brock Hattox 0318 Bill Malson 0614 Gary Mandell 0825 Bob Donaldson 0831 Bob Reed 0895 Doug Dejong 0917 Bob Schaub 1007 Linda Fitak 1015 Andy Cook 1025 Carl Mura 1087 Bob Saxton 1433 Al Crotte 1492 Dan Austin 1552 Doug Smith 1717 Geordie Calvert 1895 Erik Greenwood 1916 Bob D'Angelo 1918 Geno Wagner 1968 Earl Kilbourn 1974 George Moore 2112 Jeff Sinclair 2130 Glenn Codere 2146 Josh Levine 2269 Grant Rainsley 2277 Howard Morgan 2327 James Moleta 2527 Mac Wubben 2613 Jim Hatch 2822 Jim Wiehe 2944 Peter Iverson 3021 John Harrell 3223 Greg Conway 3232 Ken Morganti 3423 George Vrechek 4443 Larry Tipton 4444 Brett Domue 4864 John Collins 4988 Mark Talbot 5217 Sal Domino 5366 Mike Diamanti 5367 Rick Redpath 6216 Mike Wierzbicki 6543 Neal Thomas 6969 Pat Sweeney 7212 Kevin Martens 7222 Randy Griffin 7272 Mike Hair 7714 Rick Svetecz 7771 Todd Knowles 7787 Ron Perry 7867 Matt Shirley 8285 Sean McGowan 8830 Tim Newcomb 8888 Robert Pigeon 9124 Al Cummings ================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:42:25 -0500 (EST) To: grains@dccnet.com (Grant Rainsley), OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw From: Originaleek@webtv.net Great Job Grant! I got just who I wanted, that spouse of yours is a smart lady. ================= To: Subject: some 1965s up for grabs Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:22:18 -0500 From: "Robert Fitts" Here are some spare 1965s for anybody who needs them. Just ask:. Rob Fitts 41, 58,, 70, 17 9 89 35 26 85 81 89 127 178 109 175 196 140 135 106 186 208215 231 234 253 280 235 206 239 275 307 328 382 403 414 458 430 445 420 541 578 586 545 http://www.robsjapanesecards.com ================= To: Subject: Veterans Day Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:29:47 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Fellas -- I don't know how many of you guys watched Saving Private Ryan tonight, or how many of you have seen it before, but it is perhaps the most powerful movie I have ever seen. I've watched it numerous times and everytime I end upwith tears in my eyes. My grandfather died earlier this year - he was a flying crew chief on a C-49 GooneyBird during the war (the planes that flew the gliders in on D-Day, although he was actually on a medevac crew in the states). My grandmother's brothers served in the other forces on boats miles away from home. It took a lot of guts for ABC to air it in its entiretytonight since it is a very graphic movie, but it is the truth and it portays the men who won the war. My grandfather and your grandfathers and fathers were the greatest generation that ever lived and if you don't believe it, watch the movie again. Those guys were schoolteachers, bakers, mechanics, and bankers but they dropped it all and came together to ensure the freedom of an entire continent. If you have never been to Arlington National Cemetery and seen the graves that stretch for miles, you have never seen the greatness that we call the USA. I hope to have the honor of being buried there someday among the greatest people who have ever served their country. If you ever get the chance to vist Arlington, or the cemetery at Normandy, please take a few minutes to do so. For that matter, visit the Vietnam Wall in DC or the Korean War Monument, they are all awe-inspiring. It is too bad that kids today don't know the history of their country like they should. I stand in line at the pharmacy on base with a 75 year old man in front of me and hear people say stuff like "These old guys take forever to get their prescriptions." If they saw Ryan, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to judge and might actually say "Thank you," like they should. Not everybody thinks they way I do, but they are free to voice thier opinion only because of the heroes from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, and now Afganistan, not to mention all the other conflicts in between like Somalia, Bosnia, and Iran. When I was in college, I didn't mind the kids who heckled us in our ROTC uniforms because I knew good people died to give them that Please take a few minutes of your day today to say a prayer for the fathers, mothers, and kids that are fighting terrorists in Afganistan today. Also, take some time to tell your children about the folks who died to make this country what it is today, because I'm not sure that it is being done in schools these days. Kids today can learn a lot from those that went before,but only if they are told of these soldier's stories. Good Night, ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:02:47 EST Subject: Re - Veterans Day To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: MatShirley@aol.com I could not add any better words or phrase to what Geno has penned, and I whole-heartedly agree with all he said. On a more personal note, my family somehow slipped through most of the horrors of the last century. My grandfathers were too old for WWII and my father was too young for Korea. I did however have an uncle who served two tours in Vietnam as a Marine Infantry Officer. One as a platoon commander and the second as a company commander. It is because of him that I am a Marine Officer today. Although he made it through safely, he reminds me often that many did not. On his Company Command tour he returned a year later with only 35 of the original 250 or so that he started with. I have chosen this man as my military role model. Somehow he survived Vietnam with only minimal mental scars. This alone is quite an accomplishment based on what he experienced. Many don't think about this side of war. The unspeakable things that many saw and did and therefore must live with for the rest of their lives. Our Veterans, all of them, are special folks. So please shake a hand or say a prayer for one today if you get the opportunity. Semper Fidelis, Major USMC ================= To: Subject: 1965 topps all gone Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:10:17 -0500 From: "Robert Fitts" I'm glad to have help several of you, but the 1965s are all spoken for now http://www.robsjapanesecards.com ================= To: Subject: yankees cards wanted Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:22:11 -0500 From: "Robert Fitts" Surprisingly, after the Yankees loss, I have become an even bigger Yankees fan. Although I truly enjoy this particular group of players, seeing them lose just endeared them more to me. So, I've decided to start of sub-collection of Yankees cards. If any of you many Yankee-haters out there have some to spare, I'd really appreciate them. Rob Fitts 200 East End Ave #2M New York NY 10128 http://www.robsjapanesecards.com ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:51:32 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Veterans Day To: illini90@earthlink.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: tply@aol.com Geno - Well said and I couldn't agree more! As I sit here in my hotel room in Washington D.C. watching yet another plane crash in New York unfold on TV I feel the need to do more than I am doing to combat the terrorist. I just pray this latest plane crash was not the result of yet another attack by those terrorist bastards. As for Memorial Day I always call my brother who is two years my senior and was a helicopter gunner in Viet Nam. This year I have the honor of serving our country in Washington D.C. I will be working today and believe me my efforts to weed out possible terrorists will be stepped up on this important day. Both my children (now grown 24 and 21) are well aware what this day is all about and have always shown the respect due to all that have served. Thank you Geno for giving me a chance to speak out on a day I feel great sorrow as I prepare for work, watching with uncertainty the latest tragedy of a plane crash in New York. Another Quote: "Let's Roll!" ------Victim of Terrorist on one of the flights talking on a cell phone Tripleplay (Rick) ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:46:18 EST Subject: (no subject) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com, yukchow@yahoo.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM Yuk please let us know all is O.K. Robert Pigeon ================= To: Subject: Remembrance Day Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:24:19 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" I agree with Geno and Matt. I have never been in the Services, but 27 years of police work certainly has given me some glimpses of what our people have gone through.Thought I would share a story. My grandfather passed away in 1950, when I was 9. I never met him, as he was in England. The day he died, my father said nothing after recieving the phone call, just got into a suit and left the house. We found out later he went to church (unlike him) and then to the Legion. I found out many years later that my grandfather was in the Royal Navy during WW1. In 1916, his ship was torpedoed and went down. All hands were declared lost at sea, funerals were held, and obituaries were printed in the Two weeks later, my grandfather and two of his shipmates were found clinging to debris in the North Atlantic, very near death. This in the days long before survival suits were even thought of. They were rescued by a passing freighter, and after several months of recuperation and some amputations, survived. Among the few things that I have that belonged to my grandfather are the watch that he had with him at the time...rustier than hell of course, the newspaper article about the rescue,and his service medals. Dad says he NEVER spoke of his experience. Many a time when I was riding that cranky old police horse in the freezing rain and snow I felt pretty sorry for myself. I had no reason. My Dad was in the RAF during WW11. Not a pilot, but in some ways even more important...ground crew and fire brigade. I have a very few pictures of my Dad during these years, and I treasure them more than any baseball card. Dad is still around, he's 84 now, and he NEVER speaks of his experiences. I wasn't there, but I DO remember. ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:32:10 EST Subject: History Search Question To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com I very much appreciated reading Geno's, Matt's and Grant's ramblings today. One of my relatives flew B-24s and B-29s in the Pacific and I remember when I was young he showed me on a globe the Islands he was based on, and the Islands he bombed. Family rumor has it that he flew one of the planes in one of the two flights that dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I'm not sure of the source of the rumor. He passed away a couple of years ago. Does anyone know of an online resource to look up the names of those crew members so we can confirm the rumor? ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: availables Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:49:09 -0500 From: "Bob" Three nice 58 Topps to a good OBC home: 432 Powers, 439 Narleski, 442 Paine. Help yourself! ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:02:59 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] History Search Question To: AMCOOK93@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com The plane that dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima was the Enola Gay, a b-29 bomber that was originally stationed in utah as part of the 509th training wing out of Wendover Army Air Field but actually departed from Tinian Island in the Marianis group of islands. It was commanded by Col. Tibbets. The flight crew includes: Navy Capt. William "Deak" Parsons, Manhattan Project Scientist Sgt. Joseph S. Stiborik, radar operator S/Sgt. George R. Caron, tail gunner Pfc. Richard H. Nelson, radio operator Sgt. Robert H. Shumard, assistant engineer S/Sgt. Wyatt E. Duzenbury, flight engineer Capt. Theodore J. Van Kirk, navigator Maj. Thomas W. Ferebee, bombardier Col. Paul W. Tibbets, 509th Group CO and pilot Capt. Robert A. Lewis, co-pilot Lt. Jacob Beser, radar countermeasure officer Lt. Morris R. Jeppson, bomb electronics test officer The bomber that attacked Nagasaki, another b-29 nicknamed Bockscar, was commanded/piloted by Major Charles Sweeney. The rest of the crew included: Lt. Cmdr. Frederick L. Ashworth, U.S. Navy, the weaponeer in charge of the bomb; Lieutenant Phillip M. Barnes; radar-countermeasures specialist, Lieutenant Jacob Beser. Captain Charles D. Albury was the copilot; Lieutenant Frederick J. Olivi, a third pilot; Captain James F. Van Pelt, Jr., navigator; Captain Kermit Beahan, bombardier; Staff Sgt. Abe M. Spitzer, radioman; Staff Sgt. Edward K. Buckley, radar operator; Staff Sgt. Albert T. DeHart, central fire control gunner; Master Sgt. John D. Kuharek, flight engineer; and Staff Sgt. Raymond G. Gallagher, mechanic/gunner. Beser was the only man who flew on both atomic bomb missions as a member of the crew of the strike aircraft. Of course these are just the two flight crews of the actual bombers that dropped the atomic bombs...each group had several bombers and fighters in Andy hope this helps.. ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: dealer-scum Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:09:45 -0500 From: "John Collins" Hi everybody, Thought I would give you all an update on my latest find in the world of "dealer-scum," or at least what passes for it here in central North Carolina,where both card shows and card shops have become almost a total thing of the I was spending part of this Veterans Day holiday at the mall with my wife (the newlyweds manual decrees that there must be at least a 2 hour trip to the local mall on any weekday work holiday) when I ran across a new store, "Sports Memories" in the upper level of Hanes Mall here in Winston-Salem. Upon first perusal, it was your normal mall sports memorabilia store. I think this one is even part of a chain. There were the usual autographed ball and picture sets from all sports, the obligatory "Nolan knows Bo" displaythat I think is a requirement for these stores (an autographed Ryan ball with that picture of Nolan and his bloody lip after Jackson hit that comebacker to the mound) as well as various and sundry jerseys, caps, etc. Beingas I am not an autograph collector, I didn't notice the prices on these items. Then in the display case next to the cash register, I noticed some things that caught my eye. There were several 50's and 60's cards, all in "Tipton"condition or pretty close to it. I immediately noticed a 1957 Topps Mantle #95 that was in just the "right" condition for me. Probably would havegraded fair, extremely rounded corners, notching, heavy print marks, and Ibelieve a few stray creases. I remembered however, that this was a sterotypical mall sports shop, and I braced myself as I asked the guy behind thecounter "What would you want on this '57 Mantle?" "Well," came the reply, "that one books right at a thousand. In that kind of condition though, we would take $600 for it." I knew I was turning red as I immediately recognized the guy's voice from a similar shop that had been in the same mall earlier....a shop with the same price philosophy, I might add. I looked up and no, it was not a joke. The guy was dead serious. He had to have $600 if he was going to let that fair condition (but no doubt beautiful..more so to him than me) '57 Mickey walk out the door. I nodded and turned away, pretending to peruse more of the no doubt overpriced jerseys and plaques on the wall. "So," he said, "shall I wrap that up for you?" I tried not to laugh and told him that was perhaps a $80-100 card on ebay, no more. He then said (again with a straight face) "yeah, but you never know what youare getting on ebay." I thought to myself that getting what he had at his price would be exactly what I was afraid of getting on ebay. I didn't continue what was already a huge argument in my head any further, but it just goes to show that dealer-scum are still alive and well. Clearly the guy was not a complete novice on vintage cards, he quoted me the Beckett price on the Mantle without even having to look it up. There should be a hobby crash course for individuals such as these entitled "Using price and condition guides together." But I'm sure he will be content to wait until someday when an unassuming wife or mother walks in looking for a Mantle card for the hubby or son for Christmas, and rip the person up one leg and down the other for that beat up '57. In the mean time, I will stay on ebay where I don't have to pay 60% of book value for F/P condition cards. And I won't worry about "what I am getting" there either. Have a good week, John C. Collins ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: more availables Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:09:45 -0500 From: "Bob" Hey, there sports fans! I'm running real short on time to check wantlists these days, but have the following available for anyone who can use them. Condition 59 Topps 278, 487 60Topps 140 61 Post: 79 klaus 61 Topps: 50, 82, 225, 235, 241, 242, 346, 366, 367, 368, 382, 395, 448, 449 62 Topps: 34, 41, 69, 87, 92, 98, 101, 102, 107, 126, 179, 260 63 Topps 42 63 Fleer: 1, 33 66 Topps 53 68 Topps 276 (corner missing) 69 Topps 143 70 Topps: 81, 169 73 Topps: 67, 160 Jim Palmer (glue on back) , 330 Rod Carew (miscut), 550 Davey 76 Topps 400 Carew ================= To: "VCT" , Subject: various available Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:32:49 -0500 From: "John Collins" I have checked a few wantlists and didn't find homes for these, so I figured I would just offer them up to the group. First come, first serve, pleaselet me know if you need any of these. 1955 Topps - 61(g) 1963 Topps - 17(exmt) 1964 Topps - 173 (nm) 1969 Topps - 350 (Allen, vg) 513 (Pascual, vgex) 1970 Topps - 67 (NL ERA Ldrs, Marichal, Carlton, Gibson, vg) 449 (Palmer, vgex) 1971 Topps - high # 657, ex 1972 Topps - 445 (Seaver, vg) 465 (Hodges, ex) 480 (L. May, ex) 1973 Topps - 123 (Alomar, ex) 180 (Jenkins, ex) John C. Collins ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:33:57 EST Subject: my version of dealer scum To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda- everyone in these on line trading clubs knows by now i have been a Yankee fan since i was a little girl growing up in Elmhurst, Queens NYC- my version of dealer scum is when i pick out a few Yankee commons and the dealer says, " Oh , those are Yankees you picked out - i charge 2X book for Yankees and Dogders cards"- I then put the cards down and utter my four letter word (heck) at the dealer and walk away- -- another version of dealer scum is dealers who suddenly identifes some common card as a "star" and charges more even if i point out the player is not listed in Beckett- i say if the player is not listed how can he be a "star" you are trying to gouge more money out of me for?- the dealer grabs the card away from me and he gets the four letter word from me (Heck!!!)- you have any favorite four letter words for dealer scum??? bye, Linda ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] my version of dealer scum Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:42:49 -0500 From: "John Collins" I have a good local dealer who is 99.44% free of the dealer scum mentality.However your version of the Yankee-Dodger problem here is "local stars." I picked a 55 Topps of Brooklyn Dodger backup catcher Rube Walker out of the commons bin some time ago and was told by him that there is a "premium" on the late great Rube Walker's cards because he is from Lenoir, NC (about 2hours west of here). I don't know if I buy that or not. Rube may have been one of 'dem Bums, but nobody will ever confuse him with Campanella. ----- Original Message ----- From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:33 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] my version of dealer scum hello- this is Linda- everyone in these on line trading clubs knows by now have been a Yankee fan since i was a little girl growing up in Elmhurst, Queens NYC- my version of dealer scum is when i pick out a few Yankee commons and the dealer says, " Oh , those are Yankees you picked out - i charge 2X book for Yankees and Dogders cards"- I then put the cards down and utter my four letter word (heck) at the dealer and walk away- -- another version of dealer scum is dealers who suddenly identifes some common card as a "star" and charges more even if i point out the player is not listed in Beckett-i say if the player is not listed how can he be a "star" you are trying to gouge more money out of me for?- the dealer grabs the card away from me and he gets the four letter word from me (Heck!!!)- you have any favorite four letter words for dealer scum??? bye, Linda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Joe Shlabotnik Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:38:46 -0500 From: "John Collins" Ran across these cartoons in an old baseball card book. Some of you may have seen them before, but they are still entertaining. I bet a lot of us still feel like Charlie Brown when trying to complete sets !! John C. Collins ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:00:50 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Toronto show To: nthomas@pol.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: mikesportsfan@aol.com I am still sorting through everything, but can really nail your OPC BB lists. 100+ each 1970 & 1971, plus numerous others. Most of the 1971s are really sharp. LMK just how badly to bury you. It will probably take the rest of the week to finish sorting everything out, or I can just send you cards from the years I have already finished. Still lots more work to do on 1970, 1972, 1973 & 1974. Mike Rich ================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:03:49 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] my version of dealer scum To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Yeah, but JC, he WAS the pitching coach of the Miracle Mets...that HAS to count for something... well it does to this Mets fan! ================= To: Subject: 1979 topps availables Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:23:05 -0600 From: "Mark Zentkovich" anyone building this set? I can try to hit your list from a stack of extras I have....markz ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: non-sports Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:15:55 -0500 From: "Bob" If anyone collects 56 Topps presidents, or 52 Topps Look n See (famous people) I have some dupes available. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Availables Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:21:04 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" 1957 Topps (Trimmed) 119 105 106 102 131 137 139 167 169 176 13 3 37 44 47 1957 Topps 221 1960 Topps 195 231 1965 Topps 48 51 66 75 80 86 96 1968 Topps Game 23 1969 Topps Deckle Freehan 1970 Topps Storybooks 4 11 12 14 16 1970 Fleer W/S (Blue Back) 31 32 1970/71 Scratchoff Beckett McCarver Jones 1971 Fleer W/S (Black Back) 6 1979 Topps 670 Hunter 1979 Kellogs 41 1980 600 Reggie 1982 Kellogs 4 42 1968 Topps 20 58 96 1974 Topps 505 1975 Topps 430 ================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:14:54 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: All is OK From: yukchow@yahoo.com Thanks for the concern, Robert. Monday I was off and was working on my wife's car and other chores around the house. I was totally in the dark about the plane crash until my brother from LA called about 1 pm. Another tragic event that makes you appreciate life that much more. Life can end just like that. Of course, later I heard stories of people stuck in traffic (bridge was close for awhile) and airports. But one thing about New Yorkers (and I believe all Americans), we are copers. It comes from the old pioneering I'm kind of out of touch as I lost my internet access at home. I've been using free ISP's but they been disappearing. Guess I'll eventually have to pay for access. I'm still debating paying $45 for cable modem or $10 for something like Netzero. --- In OBC-Ramblings@y..., RWP521@A... wrote: > Yuk please let us know all is O.K. > Robert Pigeon > OBC-rookie ================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:05:18 EST Subject: Help needed To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jocraig@aol.com Last week I met a man named Terry Hughes, who teaches high school in Spartanburg, SC. It turns out that Terry had a brief stint in the majors (1973-1975), but has neither of his two baseball cards. The two cards are 1973, Number 603, and 1975, Number 612. Does anyone have an extra of either or both cards? I'll be happy to pay for them (since apparently the cost won't break my bank). Let me know. Thanks, y'all. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Availables Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:45:41 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Here's what's left from the dupes box Chuck Paris asked me to distribute atthe TCMA 1983 Redwood Pioneers team set (Angels system) w/ Kirk McCaskill Baseball Immortals Josh Gibson (2) Donruss Hall of Fame Heroes Josh Gibson (2) 1972-2 Topps Basketball #31 Calvin Murphy 1971-2 Topps Basketball #197 Jim Eakins 1979 Topps Football #415, #108 1980 Topps Football #400 Franco Harris 1961 Post #99, #124, #152, #153, #155 1963 Post #93 Discs: Isaly, Cranes, others: Griffey (Reds), Lolich (Mets), Zisk (Pirates), Seaver (Mets), Tiant (Red Sox), Gullett (Reds) 1959 Topps #22, #277, #449 1960 Topps #107, #128, #129, #140 1962 Topps #42, #182, #476 1968 Topps Game card #22 Scott, #13 Peters 1969 Topps #44, #57, #61, #91, #177, #342 1970 Topps #52 1971 Topps #123, #161 1979 Topps #700 If someone wants them all, that's even better. ================= To: Subject: OBC Xmas/Holiday/Winter Solstice/Just Because Draw Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:42:38 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Hi guys....those that signed up before Sunday at 6pm should have their victim's name in their possession. If for some reason you didn't get it, please email me, and I'll re-send. Now the REAL IMPORTANT PART!!!!!! The Draw is NOT, I repeat NOT closed. The final list will go out next Sunday afternoon for those that were unable to make the first round. Five more have come along since Sunday's posting, and there is NO problem adding 5, 10, or 15 more. If you haven't done it, just hit the Reply button and send me your four digit number. We probably have around 70 guys playing so far, and I'd like to beat Barry Bonds' record please. And please remember Rules 1 and 2. ================= To: Subject: Set finished Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:10:34 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" I know all my friends will be thrilled to know I've finished the 1953 Bowman color set, with the arrival of a none-too-beautiful Duke Snider from ebay. Set was started in February 1999, just after I came back to the hobby. A purchase of about 90 cards from Solomon Cramer's Vintage Cards got me going. Thanks to several OBC guys for help with it at various times. If anyone's going to be at the Chicago show this weekend, let me know-- ================= Subject: Thanks and mucho late show report Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:03:25 -0500 To: "OBC Ramblings" From: Matthew Glidden Hey all, I attended last week's Wilmington, MA show with those who've already posted reports (Jim H, Steve R, Brett D, but missed Ken M by a day) ... I don't have much new to add, so I'll at least post thanks for cards Steve Rittenberg came through with a mighty pile o cards as seems to be his habit, including a large pile of 53 hi#s and a variety of other years, including another chip off the 71 OPC llist, which is hard for us Yanks to hit (have to make that Toronto show sometime). Aside from show hits, Jim Hatch sent along a SCP today, a 53T Feller! Oy! Brett hit me with ... argh ... something good, that unfortunately slips my mind at this moment. Anyway, if it's from Brett, you know it's good! Another envelope of cards from the show must have been from Bob D, if I remember correctly. 65 hi#s, gotta love 'em! Thanks for all the cards, guys! Still trying to figure out if I can get to Ft. Washington or not ... OBC: Because every card is "one of one" ================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:13:25 EST Subject: 2nd bad (good) experience on ebay To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com I am having my second bad experiece with an ebayer. I think I told Erik and Peter about the start of it. I won an item (eBay End of Auction - Item # 1019880276 (1923-24 EXHIBIT CARD OF J.H. SAND VG+)) for 6.99 shipped from about 45 minutes away from my house. Waited two weeks and no item...as i was about to e-mail the guy, i get a non-paying bidder notice from ebay he put in. I check my online bank (wells fargo rules) and notice that he cashed my check already. I told him he already cashed my check and he was in fear of not only getting negative feedback but a visit from the local authorities concerning mail fraud. He e-mails and said that my letter slipped under a pile of stuff, blah blah blah...he will send it out asap. Another two weeks and i finally got package today...of course he sent the wrong thing. Now here is the twist. The exhibit I got was a '28 Postcard back Harriss, worth about $10 more than the Sand (condition is nicer than the sand)...I told the guy that if i did not have sand in hand (1st grade teacher always loves rhymes) by saturday, i would sell the harriss to recoup my losses. we shall see what ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Mantle Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:09:49 -0500 From: "John Collins" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1032693114 Somebody actually bid $50 on this and the reserve isn't met? I think the seller must really believe he has an original card. John C. Collins ================= Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:16:31 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Mantle To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Date: 11/14/01 12:10:54 AM Eastern Standard Time To: "OBC Ramblings" From: "John Collins" Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:09:49 -0500 Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Mantle ================= Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:15:38 EST Subject: Anyone want some crummy old '54 Bowmans? To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jocraig@aol.com I've picked up a few extra '54 Bowmans in the last few months and would like to find them some good homes. If you want any of these, please let me know. FCFS. Thanks. 4*, 26, 27, 46*, 99, 115*, 168, 183, and 211. Those with an asterisk after them are actually in pretty good shape. ================= To: Subject: anybody heard of this guy? Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:52:45 -0500 From: "Robert Fitts" Has anybody heard of Alex manning 246 woodland cr ocean springs ms 39564 He contacted me about selling cards from my OBC wantlist. I purchased a few 2 plus weeks ago and haven't heard from him. I began to worry when he also contacted my Japanese card email address offing me Japanese cards from my rob fitts http://www.robsjapanesecards.com ================= Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:34:24 EST Subject: enduring freedom cards To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi guys, Listening to the talk last week about the Enduring Freedom cards put out by Topps got my brain to thinking, and it developed into my first bylined story at the Tampa Tribune sports section in about 3 years (moat of my bylines are in the book section, reviewing books. Mostly I work the desk and write headlines and read stories. But once a week we have a forum called "Fanatics," and this week they turned it over to me. So forgive the shameless plug, but here is what appeared in the Nov. 14 edition of the Trib. Topps was kind enough to send me a picture of the George Bush card that graces the story. Here is the link: http://tampatrib.com/Sports/MGAZQMKB0UC.html or just http://tampatrib.com and go to sports. Let me know what you think. ================= Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:17:29 EST Subject: My first rave To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com hi there! Not sure if i am allowed to do this after only 2 weeks of official membership in the group, so please let me know if this is inappropriate. i received a bunch of cards today that were part of a trade. (i only mention trade because i dont want to sound like an ingrate complaining about a gift.) some of the cards were from the early 50s, which i consider to be valuable. one of the cards was in a top loader, which apparently had tape residue on it, because another card was stuck up against it. there was no way, despite carefully removing that card from up against the top loader, that part of the backing wasn't going to rip off. if the card is sent as a tipton, that's fine. but to turn it into a tipton because of carelessness, that's another so if i might make three suggestions: if you must use tape, if at all possible, use masking tape, since that has the best chance of not causing damage. provide protection to all the cards you are sending, either individually using sleeves or top loaders (hopefully clean ones), or in groups (cut up sheets or plastic cases if a lot of cards). finally, please pay attention to what and how you are packing the cards. i have received about 2 dozen packages over the past few months from various card groups, and only 2 or 3 had this kind of problem. so i pass this along only as a reminder, and appreciate your taking the time to read this. thanks, gary mandell ================= Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:03:28 EST Subject: 1961 traders? To: vct@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com I just bought a couple of 1961 starter sets from a local dealer. Adding those to the cards that I previously had from 1961 motivated me to add the 1961 set to my wantlist. I have about 50 dupes, the majority of which are EX. On a somewhat related note, I recently won an auction of over 100 cards from 1965 in hopes of doing some upgrading, and I expect to receive those cards ================= To: Subject: 1998 SCD "big book' available Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:22:03 -0600 From: "Mark Zentkovich" I just upgraded to an 01 version, this one is up for grabs...this one list most of the oddball stuff that is out there.. ================= Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:51:09 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Digest Number 189 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated 11/15/01 6:53:46 AM, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com writes: << one of the cards was in a top loader, which apparently had tape residue on it, because another card was stuck up against it. there was no way, despite carefully removing that card from up against the top loader, that part of the backing wasn't going to rip off. if the card is sent as a tipton, that's fine. but to turn it into a tipton because of carelessness, that's another so if i might make three suggestions: if you must use tape, if at all possible, use masking tape, since that has the best chance of not causing damage. provide protection to all the cards you are sending, either individually using sleeves or top loaders (hopefully clean ones), or in groups (cut up sheets or plastic cases if a lot of cards). finally, please pay attention to what and how you are packing the cards. ...guess that puts a damper on me sending a bunch with just an elastic band around them Ken M ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: 1964 Cards Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:05:16 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" I've just picked up a low grade lot of 1964s on Ebay (135 diff G-VG). Unfortunately, the dealer doesn't do overseas shipping, so I'm in need of some help. So here's the deal. If you're working on 1964's, I'd like to arrange for the dealer to send the cards to you. Once you receive the cards, check my WL and pull out all of those that I need. Of the cards that are left over, keep whatever you need, then send the leftovers along with my cards to me here in It's a bit of a crap shoot, since I don't know what numbers are in the lot. Still, I would expect to pick up about 80-90 hits on my list, which doesn't leave an awful lot to pick over. Are you a gambler? Let me know if you can help me out, so that I can fire payment off to the guy tomorrow (Friday). Cheers for now! Glenn Codere Glasgow, Scotland ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: More on 1964s Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:25:19 -0000 From: "Glenn Codere" Bob Donaldson immediately stepped up and volunteered to take delivery of the 1964 lot for me. Whadda guy! ================= Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:04:00 -0500 (EST) To: grains@dccnet.com (Grant Rainsley), OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Thanks] Great Canadian Thanks From: Originaleek@webtv.net To: From: "Grant Rainsley" Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:31:30 -0800 Subject: [OBC-Thanks] Great Canadian Thanks ================= To: Subject: FW: [OBC-Ramblings] Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:22:22 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" That's right Earl, application into the Billy Hoeft Fan Club is not a cinch. So far, it has been extremely exclusive. Expansion will take some thought, especially if it means doubling the Membership overnight. Just imagine the hidden costs involved...double the postage for example. And that's just the beginning. Why, once word gets out, there will be a rush on Billy's house, the police will be called out on their days off to offer protection, (at double time, I might add), and the Post Office will likely have to hire extra staff just to handle the added volume. And you think this can just simply HAPPEN. You just have to look at the BIG picture here. And leave Montreal out of this, we are talking about Canada here. This is Earl with a u no e Kilbourn. I just read the attached and am having an anxiety attack. Grant writes "if Earl gets in". What do it mean "if"? Did my membership have to go to committee? Did my background check cause concern? Contrary to reports at the time, I did not start that fight at that Montreal ice arena, I was merely cheering for my son's team. Besides if it was so bad, why would Vancouver have a team called Canucks? And I promise, the next time I'm in Canada I'll pay that To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:42:01 -0500 To: cardclctor@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Digest Number 189 From: Mark S Talbot You can send them to me with a rubber band around them Ken. I still have gobs of cards held together by "Vintage Rubber", classic OBC stuff. So ship them out they will always get classic treatment in Southeastern Michigan!!! BE WELL!!! REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK "Live long and prosper" - Spock * Mark S. Talbot * * 34030 Chatsworth Drive * * Sterling Heights, MI. * * 48312-4604 * * talbot1@home.com * cardclctor@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/15/01 6:53:46 AM, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com writes: > << one of the cards was in a top loader, which apparently had tape residue on > it, because another card was stuck up against it. there was no way, despite > carefully removing that card from up against the top loader, that part of the > backing wasn't going to rip off. if the card is sent as a tipton, that's > fine. but to turn it into a tipton because of carelessness, that's another > issue. > so if i might make three suggestions: if you must use tape, if at all > possible, use masking tape, since that has the best chance of not causing > damage. provide protection to all the cards you are sending, either > individually using sleeves or top loaders (hopefully clean ones), or in > groups (cut up sheets or plastic cases if a lot of cards). finally, please > pay attention to what and how you are packing the cards. > >> > ...guess that puts a damper on me sending a bunch with just an elastic band > around them > Ken M > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:52:02 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: FW: [OBC-Ramblings] From: Originaleek@webtv.net Thanks for the reply, at least my app. has not been rejected. If it's true what Big Al says, I should expect my offical notice and my "Billy" secret de-coder ring (left handed of course) in the mail next week? Does this mean I don't have to pay that ticket? http://community.webtv.net/OriginalEEK/OriginalEEKsHomePage ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: price guide question Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:23:34 -0500 From: "John Collins" Can any of you out there with an SCD "big book" look something up for me? What are the various values for a 1933 Goudey Sport Kings Ty Cobb in the 3 different grade columns? Thanks guys, John C. Collins ================= To: Subject: Ft. Washington Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:22:29 -0500 From: "Chuck Paris" Thinking about making the trip. Is anybody organizing a swap session? Anybody need a roomy? ================= To: "Ramblings \(OBC\)" Subject: Maury Wills Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:25:19 -0800 From: "Geordie Calvert" Greetings all! I had the pleasure today of attending a luncheon where Maury Wills was the featured speaker. What a class guy - very witty, well-spoken, with a great message (overcoming alcoholism and drug addiction following his short stint as manager of the Mariners). He spoke for close to 90 minutes, sharing some truly wonderful and sometimes hilarious baseball stores about Bob Gibson, Joe Torre and Gaylord Perry among others. He mentioned playing againstthe Phoenix Giants in AAA ball, and receiving a note from a fan attending the game who commented that he "liked the way that kid slides." The note was from Ty Cobb. Turned out they had the same sliding style. He spoke of the men who changed his life. One was Jerry Priddy of the local Washingtone Senators (Wills grew up in the projects of DC). Priddy conducted a clinic in his neighborhood when Wills was nine (1941). Not only wasWills inpressed that a white ballplayer had taken the time to spend time in a black neighborhood, but that his uniform matched perfectly (unlike the local semipro team's unis) and that he didn't have a half pint of whisky inhis back pocket (again unlike the local semipro players). It was Priddy that inspired Wills to be a pro ballplayer. Another early influence was Jackie Robinson. It was Robinson's breaking ofthe color barrier in '47 that gave Wills the dream of playing for the Dodgers. After signing his first contract in 1950, his goal was to play alongside Robinson within two years. His inability to hit the curve changed those dreams quite a bit! After eight & a half years in the minors, his next big influence was Bobby Bragan, the new manager of the Spokane Indians, a AAA team in the PCL. Bragan as a player refused to take the field when Jackie was on it, but this was now the late 50s and times & attitudes had changed a bit, to say the least. Bragan convince Wills to learn how to switch hit so he could get a different look at righthanders' curve balls. First two times he batted from the left side, he saw first pitch fastballs and swung - trying to hit the ball to deep short, where he could beat out the hit with his speed. Both times, he hit the top half of the ball, hitting it off the plate about 50 feetin the air. By the time the ball came back down, he was standing on first. Both times, he stole 2nd and 3rd, and then scored. >From there, his career took off. He was soon called up to the Dodgers, replacing an injured Don Zimmer in '59. Pete Reiser, the long time Dodger player and coach, constantly worked with Wills to keep his swing smooth. I could go on & on. Delightful guy. Loved to play against the Giants. I could listen to guys like him all day long, reminiscing about their playingdays, telling stories about my boyhood heroes, many of whom are nothing but stories to me. 69 years old, but a warm & firm handshake. Looked me right in the eye after he had signed a card for me (psycho '72) and had a short chat with me. Clean & sober since August 12, 1989. Of all of his tremendous accomplishments, that is the biggest. Again, a great afternoon. Didn't think I was going to be gone from work three hours, but it was worth it!. I've now met Don Newcombe, Carl Erskine, Johnny Podres, Gino Cimolli and Maury Wills. Didn't talk to Podres much, but the other four ex-Dodgers were absolute delights. Can't wait to meet more! ================= To: Subject: Minor League Research Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:32:01 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" Is anyone familiar with the Professional Baseball Players Database? -Dave Fallen ================= Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:24:30 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Email problems From: nthomas@pol.net Hi all- Once again, my email is down. I am sending this through the Yahoo groups website. I will return any emails when the server is back up. Sorry. ================= To: Subject: OBC Holiday Draw-----Last Call!!!! Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:14:47 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Still time to get in on the festivities! All you have to do is send me the four digit number of your choice, if you haven't already done so. The supplemental list goes out on Sunday! ================= To: Subject: Curse of Savary Island (cont'd) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:44:24 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Okay, new rules, you don't even have to be on the island, or even planning a trip for the curse to get you. I had to go in this morning for a short meeting, even though it's my day off. After the meeting, I offered a Board member a lift back to his office. As I was backing out of the the tight parking in the lane downtown, convinced that it was clear, the guy says "what a waste of time that was, I'd rather be on Savary." I of course glanced at him, because obviously he had my interest. I then backed into a three foot long fence extension, pretty harmless, made of wood, about 4" X 4", which was just low enough that I couldn't see it out the rear window of the van. Man, when a rear window of a Crime Stoppers van explodes, it can be very unsettling. My first "non-planned" accident in 27 years on the job. I have been in lots that were planned, but that's different. Mike, when you get up here tomorrow, I'll introduce you to Canadian-style Does ANYBODY want to buy some nice property on Savary? Thinking of selling it real cheap! ================= Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:31:50 EST Subject: Fwd: Little Ray To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: GHAY1@aol.com From: "Donald Fong" To: "George Hay" Subject: Little Ray Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 04:43:27 -0800 November 14, 2001 Ray Kelly, Babe Ruth's Little Pal, Dies at 83 By RICHARD GOLDSTEIN ay Kelly, who fulfilled the fantasy of every American boy when he became Babe Ruth's mascot and sat in the Yankees' dugout in a pinstripe uniform when Murderers' Row ruled the baseball world, died Sunday at his home in Valley Cottage, N.Y. He was 83. The cause was a heart attack, his family said. It all began with a chance meeting of neighbors on the Upper West Side of Manhattan one day in 1921, when the Yankees were sharing the Polo Grounds with the Giants. "I was having a catch with my father in a park along Riverside Drive and the Babe lived around the corner and stopped to watch," Mr. Kelly recalled. "I was a pretty good player for age 3, and Babe told my dad: `I'm taking Little Ray with me to the Polo Grounds tomorrow. He's going to be my mascot.' Over the next decade, the boy sat alongside the Babe and the future Hall of Famers Lou Gehrig, Tony Lazzeri, Bill Dickey, Waite Hoyt, Herb Pennock and Manager Miller Huggins. He was a good-luck charm at many home games in the Polo Grounds and at Yankee Stadium and was also Ruth's guest on someroad trips, sharing a hotel room with Eddie Bennett, the Yankees' adult bat boy. "I was just there to sit on the bench and look cute," Mr. Kelly oncesaid. He was in the dugout at Yankee Stadium when it opened, on April 18, 1923, with Ruth hitting a three-run homer that lifted the Yankees to a 4-1 victory over the Boston Red Sox. But Little Ray, as Ruth always called him, was not at the Stadium on Sept. 30, 1927, when Ruth hit his 60th home run of the season. "He was veryhonest about that," said Marty Appel, a former Yankee public relations director and longtime friend. "He said, `Nope, I was in school that day.' " At age 13, Little Ray retired from the Yankees because his school obligations intervened. But Ruth had the boy and his father as his guests at the 1932 World Series, and they sat in a box seat next to the Yankees' dugout when Ruth hit his famed "called shot" home run in Game 3 at Wrigley Fieldoff the Chicago Cubs' Charlie Root. Mr. Kelly maintained long afterward that Ruth did indeed point to thecenter-field bleachers before hitting the ball there. "He absolutely did it," he said. "I was right there. Never in doubt." After leaving the Yankees behind him in the early 1930's, he graduated from high school, then served as a sergeant in the Army Air Forces duringWorld War II. Mr. Kelly later graduated from Pace University and worked asan accountant for Mobil Oil. He was rediscovered by the baseball world in 1995 when he spoke at a Hofstra University symposium marking the centennial of Ruth's birth, was interviewed for an HBO documentary on Ruth in 1998 and was a guest of the Postal Service at the issuance of a stamp honoring Ruth that year. Mr. Kelly is survived by his wife, Josephine; three sons, Ray Jr. of Albany, Michael of Hawaii, and Terrence of Pearl River, N.Y.; two daughters, Barbara Jean Ensminger of Columbia, S.C., and Theresa Meyer of Johnson City, Tenn.; 13 grandchildren; and 3 great-grandchildren. Asked once if the Yankees had watched their language on the bench with a child sitting among them, Mr. Kelly replied: "Are you kidding? Where doyou think I learned to swear?" Whatever the Yankees' manners, Mr. Kelly always revered Ruth. As he put it: "He was like a second father to me. He treated me like the son he never had. Babe was idolized by everyone, particularly kids. He treated children with a great deal of respect, and adults appreciated that." How did he think the Babe would have fared in the modern game? "If hewas alive today," Mr. Kelly told an interviewer in 1998, "he'd hit 100 home ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:26:05 +0800 Subject: availables From: " john harrell" Been a while since I posted any availables so here goes. Not a lot but as always FCFS. Also have about 20 or so packages going out this weekend. 54 Bowman: 2 3 51 55 60 63 85 93 98 102 109 116 119 54 Topps: 101 109 148 178 248 76 Topps: 347 (Williams) ================= Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:33:42 EST Subject: Re: Super Star of The Day To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:13:30 "Rick Redpath" writes: <> In a message dated 11/17/01 7:09:37 AM, nthomas@pol.net writes: << Once again, my email is down. I am sending this through the Yahoo groups website. I will return any emails when the server is back up. Sorry. >> I have a theory on how you got that 56 Koufax delivered to you. Obviously Neal has been having communication problems, so he may have previously sent a message that went out as something like: "Send him about 5 or 6 shoddy looking cards and forward some thx to the server". Apparently some of the words were lost or jumbled in the transmission and John read it as: "Send him a 56 Koufax for he deserves it". It's just a theory though, Ken M ================= Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:27:48 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Super Star of The Day From: Neal Thomas Ok, all, no that my email is working, I can defend myself! I personally tutored John in depth on the Tipton grading system. I went as far as to send him some true Tipton Mint 10 gems from my personal collection. I therefore have a clear conscience and can no longer take responsibility for any cards that John sends that have the following: sharp corners, no writing, no creases, no trimming! Please accept my apologies in advance for any further rookie mistakes John makes! ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: cardclctor@aol.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Super Star of The Day Date: 11/17/2001 08:33am In a message dated Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:13:30 "Rick Redpath" writes: <> In a message dated 11/17/01 7:09:37 AM, nthomas@pol.net writes: << Once again, my email is down. I am sending this through the Yahoo groups website. I will return any emails when the server is back up. Sorry. >> I have a theory on how you got that 56 Koufax delivered to you. Neal has been having communication problems, so he may have previously sent a message that went out as something like: "Send him about 5 or 6 looking cards and forward some thx to the server". Apparently some of words were lost or jumbled in the transmission and John read it as: "Send him a 56 Koufax for he deserves it". It's just a theory though, Ken M ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/ltH6zA/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:32:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Ft. Washington From: Neal Thomas I am going to try and run over for the say on Saturday--is anyone else going to be there on Saturday? ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: "Chuck Paris" Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Ft. Washington Date: 11/15/2001 09:22pm Thinking about making the trip. Is anybody organizing a swap session? Anybody need a roomy? ================= Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:33:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Oldie but a goodie From: Neal Thomas Earl and Charlie were lifelong buddies, and they were two of the biggest baseball fans in the world. They grew up together, played Little League together, and for every year of their lives, they spent the winter talking about baseball and the summer going to all the games and going over every box score. Well, they were getting on in years, and they made a pact that whichever of the two died first would try to come back and tell the other about if there was baseball in heaven. One summer night, Charlie passed away peacefully in his sleep after he and Earl had returned from a game and said good-night. A few nights later, Earl awoke in the middle of the night to the sound of Charlie's voice coming from the great beyond. "Charlie, is that you?" asked Earl. "Of course it is," said Charlie. "We made a promise, didn't we?" "This is unbelievable!" exclaimed Earl. "So tell me, buddy, is there baseball in heaven?" "Well," said Charlie's voice, "I got some good news and some bad news. Which do you want to hear first?" "The good news, I guess," said Earl. Charlie said, "Well, the good news is, yes, there is baseball in heaven. They play every night, and all the big names are here! Why, I watched Babe Ruth hit a home run last night." "That's great!", Earl said. "So what could possibly be the bad news?" Charlie said, "You're pitching tomorrow night!" ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: In my defense (& Neal's) ...... Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:39:08 -0500 From: "John Collins" My friend and mentor Neal Thomas has been getting some bad press lately fornot teaching me the true definition of a Tipton. I beg to differ, I DO know what at Tipton is! Please see the following one I currently have a bid on: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1033112592&r0&t0&showTutorial0&ed1006136679&indexURL0&rd1 Now that is Tipton Mint !!! I would be dishonest if I didn't disclose that I also own an ex-mt copy of this card, but dammit, I want a Tipton to prove that I passed that class !! Sorry I don't have enough Koufax's to go around, but it is apparent that Rick is happy with his even if it is not a true Tipton. Hope everybody has a good weekend, John C. Collins ================= Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:32:32 EST Subject: Vintage gum? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1033317457 ================= Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:08:30 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Good News! From: Originaleek@webtv.net Hi guys and doll, I'm sure you've done that song & dance huh, Linda? Well, I thought folks would like to know that Ernie "the voice of summer" Harwell will be back next spring to broadcast his 43rd year of Tiger's Baseball. That is indeed a bright spot in an otherwise bleak picture for Tiger fans. When questioned about continuing to call games for the down trodden Tigers, Ernie reminds us that it is the love of the game that is important. Winning and, in the case of the Tigers, losing are secondary. What a soon to be 84 year old inspiration he is. Why, with his return we may not give up on a winning season for the Tigers until the end of May this coming season. Earl ================= To: Subject: OBC Holiday Draw- Supplemental Draw Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:42:46 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Here is the list of guys who weren't included in last weeks posting. If you have sent me your four digit number and haven't received a victim, please let me know, and I will rectify the situation. Your victim is to the right of the number you selected. 0951 Rex Stahlman 1390 Terry Dietrick 1529 Jimmy Parker 1622 James Cooper 2323 Yuk Chow 2472 Spike Glidden 3541 Tom Williams 4974 Don Metz 5050 Dave Skoglund 5539 Chuck Paris 7112 Roger Raum ================= Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:32:51 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1977 Hostess/Twinkie Question From: Neal Thomas Hi all- Sat down today to sort through some food issue cards I have. I am confused by the 1977 Hostess and Twinkie cards, since I have three diferent types. SCD says that the Twinkie cards have the black line on the back, and the pic shows that black line outside what would be the trimmed card (2 1/4 x 3 1/4), and I have a few of these, but if the card is trimmed to that size, and the black line is trimmed off, is there any other way to tell the difference. Also, I have a Phil Niekro card, where the writing on the back is smaller, and the black line is on the card after it was trimmed to 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. Is the Nierko the only twinkies card I have and the picute in SCD is wrong, or am I really mixed up? Thanks for the help. ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: rejection from Tipton Grading Services Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:08:05 -0500 From: "John Collins" If Larry Tipton ever set up a formal grading business, I believe this card would probably be a reject: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1030546176 By the way, this is not the card I sent Rick. John C. Collins ================= Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:21:16 EST Subject: A day of Firsts To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com A great day today. Went to my first major card show, here in Chicago. Beats the ten table shows I've seen at the suburban Holiday Inn. And met my first OBCer, Tim Newcomb, who made the trip up from U of IL. Tim handed my a couple dozen hits to my late 50s and 60s want lists, and gave me some great veteran advice on the inner workings of OBC. He also introduced me to some very OBC-friendly dealers, who were very accommodating in the discounts for some bulk purchases, I suspect a lot of my want lists have been whittled significantly, and will have hours of fun going through the treasure. Picked up the Cobb from the Callahan set, so the pre-52 set is complete. No DiMaggio was available though. And then I watched my first place Bears beat the Bucs after the powerhouse Falcons knocked off Green Bay at home (that's football for those who don't know). Am already looking forward to the national convention in Chicago next year. I was really impressed how well known and well respected OBC is among the dealers, and am proud to be a part of the group. Gary Mandell ================= Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:29:46 EST Subject: Ramadan To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com To celebrate the holy month of Ramadan, here are some holey 1965 availables: 71, 125, 69, 299, 278, 216, 123, 352, 310, 147, 322, 13, 70, 328, 313, 180, 184, 296, 22, 302, 186, 197, 168, 35, 240, 324, 140. ================= Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:14:23 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1983 Orioles & One Hit Wonders From: jimbo@albany.net I'm playing a stratomatic tournament this winter, using 64 World Championship teams from the past. While preparing for the '83 Orioles - '84 Tigers series, I ran across an interesting oddity. At least I think it's odd. As was the custom back then, strat gave the '83 O's only 24 carded players. So, I was going to create a card for their 25th player. Turns out there were two fairly significant uncarded players. Allan Ramirez and Dan Morogiello. Ramirez made 10 starts, going 4-4 with a 3.47 ERA, only 46 hits allowed in 57 innings. Morogiello made 22 appearances as a short lefty reliever, posting a 2.39 era in 38 innings. Either performance would qualify for a million dollar contract these days. As part of my research, I checked out their career historical "card", and their career records. I was fairly amazed to find that neither one ever threw a major league pitch in any other year EXCEPT 1983. For the purposes of my project, that's perfect. I can just use their Career Historical "card" exactly as is. I wondered, though - WHY did neither of these guys ever get another shot, after making nice contributions to a World Championship team? And, I wondered, was this as unusual as I perceived it to be? Ken Hunt of the '61 Reds and Jim Barbieri of the '66 Dodgers were others I immediately thought of as players whose only year was on a world series team. Any of you Orioles fans out there know what the scoop was on these two guys? ================= Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 05:24:31 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: itradecards.com From: coop951@optonline.net Hi All Got the link for this group itradecards.com as Im sure that you all did.Sounded good until I saw the price. $143.00 per year or $600.00 for life. Is anybody really going to sign up for this for life...and of course most important for us is the SGC slabbing service ( one free slab per membership). What do you guys think...should be some laughs out there on this one.It does make me realize how special this group really is.And all for $10.00 per year. ================= Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:29:37 EST Subject: Still available To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com The following 1965 Topps remain available: 324, 313, 302, 240, 197, 186, 180, 168, 140, 123, 89, 35, 22. Many aren't bad looking, and only have two tiny staple holes. If concerned about their condition, feel free to ask for details, and I'll even try to send a scan. ================= Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:25:56 EST Subject: web message board question To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com Does anyone know where I can get a free message board I can add to my AOL ================= Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:09:07 -0500 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fwd: nu-card hi-lites checklist From: Dan Austin Can anyone help here? >X-From_: MARJOCAT@aol.com Fri Nov 16 17:51:41 2001 >From: MARJOCAT@aol.com >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:51:16 EST >Subject: nu-card hi-lites checklist >To: webmaster@oldbaseball.com >X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP US sub 50 >X-Loop-Detect: 1 >Dear Webmaster, I am looking for a checklist of the 1960 Topps nu-card >hi-lites cards.Your site has the 1961 Topps nu scoops,but the 1960 set had >larger cards that I am looking for.Thanks so much,John. Dan Austin - dan@iamdanaustin.com Visit me at http://iamdanaustin.com "How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world." - William Shakespeare ================= Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:39:33 -0500 To: Dan Austin , Subject: 1960 nu-card hi-lites checklist From: Mark S Talbot Hello John and OBC,

    From my research there are 72 cards in the set with plenty of interesting stuff.  The cards measure 3 1/4" by 5 3/8" - about the size of a three by five card.  I could list what's in there if you want to know about them.  Lots of HOF stuff - Ruth, Aaron, Mantle, Cobb, DiMaggio, Williams, Hubbell, Dean, Kaline and even and Eddie Gaedel card.  LMK if you require more detailed info.

REGARDS --------------------------------- MARK

"Live long and prosper" - Spock
 *    Mark S. Talbot            
 *    34030 Chatsworth Drive    
 *    Sterling Heights, MI.      48312-4604   *
 *    talbot1@home.com          

Dan Austin wrote:

 Can anyone help here?
X-From_: MARJOCAT@aol.com  Fri Nov 16 17:51:41 2001
From: MARJOCAT@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:51:16 EST
Subject: nu-card hi-lites checklist
To: webmaster@oldbaseball.com
X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP US sub 50
X-Loop-Detect: 1

Dear Webmaster, I am looking for a checklist of the 1960 Topps nu-card hi-lites cards.Your site has the 1961 Topps nu scoops,but the 1960 set had larger cards that I am looking for.Thanks so much,John.


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Dan Austin - dan@iamdanaustin.com
Visit me at http://iamdanaustin.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
"How far that little candle throws his beams!
So shines a good deed in a naughty world."
                          - William Shakespeare
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================= To: "OBC_Ramblings" Subject: T206 Booklet on Ebay Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:09:42 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" I've noticed a T206 booklet on ebay for quite some time. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1034918936 Looks interesting. Has anybody bought this and if so would you recommend it. ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: MVP Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:50:12 -0800 From: "John Collins" Well, Barry Bonds has won a record 4th MVP award. Everybody knew it was coming. From his on field accomplishments, I can certainly say that he deserved it. 73 home runs? Who in their right mind thought we would ever see that? He also broke the Babe's record for highest slugging pct. in a season and the most walks. And though only a handful of men (all Hall of Famers) ever won as many as 3 MVP awards, you knew it was only a matter of time before somebody won 4. Steve Carlton started the trend with the Cy Young Award, winning 4, and now Clemens has 6. I wonder if he has enough wall space at home. I must say though, that the announcement of the award, while no surprise, didn't make me the least bit happy for Bonds. Bonds is the ultimate "modern" player. He argues with the press, is a jerk to the fans, and holds out for more and more millions. But this is nothing new. That brings up images of Ted Williams jawing with writers and spitting or lining baseballs at booing Fenway fans. But there is some element of Bonds' play that has brought baseball to a new level of arrogance. When Roger Maris hit number 61, he ran around the bases like always with his head down and had to be forced to take a curtain call by his teammates who wouldn't let him sit down when he got to the bench. McGwire pumped his fist in genuine thrill when he hit number 62, but was in such a dreamland that he missed first base and had to go back and tag it. People were truly thrillled for him. Was anybody really happy for Bonds? Barry, not just with homer number 70, or 71, but with every single one he hits, it seems, will stand and watch the ball go out like he is God's ulitmate gift to the game. He no doubt makes his distant cousin Reggie Jackson proud by doing this (another that I can't stand). Does anybody else have any light to shed on why Bonds is the way he is? He is certainly is one of if not the best player of his generation and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But he is not now, and has never been terribly popular. 3-time MVP award winners include names like Musial, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra, Schmidt. Barry has won 4, but I still don't associate him anywhere close to the category I put those players in. I hope I'm not offending any Giants or Pirates fans, but just wanted to share an opinion and see if anyone would like to share Happy Thanksgiving, ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: MVP Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:50:15 -0800 From: "John Collins" Well, Barry Bonds has won a record 4th MVP award. Everybody knew it was coming. From his on field accomplishments, I can certainly say that he deserved it. 73 home runs? Who in their right mind thought we would ever see that? He also broke the Babe's record for highest slugging pct. in a season and the most walks. And though only a handful of men (all Hall of Famers) ever won as many as 3 MVP awards, you knew it was only a matter of time before somebody won 4. Steve Carlton started the trend with the Cy Young Award, winning 4, and now Clemens has 6. I wonder if he has enough wall space at home. I must say though, that the announcement of the award, while no surprise, didn't make me the least bit happy for Bonds. Bonds is the ultimate "modern" player. He argues with the press, is a jerk to the fans, and holds out for more and more millions. But this is nothing new. That brings up images of Ted Williams jawing with writers and spitting or lining baseballs at booing Fenway fans. But there is some element of Bonds' play that has brought baseball to a new level of arrogance. When Roger Maris hit number 61, he ran around the bases like always with his head down and had to be forced to take a curtain call by his teammates who wouldn't let him sit down when he got to the bench. McGwire pumped his fist in genuine thrill when he hit number 62, but was in such a dreamland that he missed first base and had to go back and tag it. People were truly thrillled for him. Was anybody really happy for Bonds? Barry, not just with homer number 70, or 71, but with every single one he hits, it seems, will stand and watch the ball go out like he is God's ulitmate gift to the game. He no doubt makes his distant cousin Reggie Jackson proud by doing this (another that I can't stand). Does anybody else have any light to shed on why Bonds is the way he is? He is certainly is one of if not the best player of his generation and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But he is not now, and has never been terribly popular. 3-time MVP award winners include names like Musial, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra, Schmidt. Barry has won 4, but I still don't associate him anywhere close to the category I put those players in. I hope I'm not offending any Giants or Pirates fans, but just wanted to share an opinion and see if anyone would like to share Happy Thanksgiving, ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:36:56 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T206 Booklet on Ebay To: bdonaldson@callisma.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com In a message dated 11/20/2001 7:15:29 AM Central Standard Time, bdonaldson@callisma.com writes: I've noticed a T206 booklet on ebay for quite some time. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1034918936 Looks interesting. Has anybody bought this and if so would you recommend it. I bought one and its well worth $6.00 - Doug ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:13:53 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1977 Hostess/Twinkie Question To: nthomas@pol.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sweendoger@aol.com For what it is worth.... The only difference that I can tell between a black lined card and a panel card (on some of my cards) is that that the font "justification" seems to be more spread out. That is - the point size of the characters are the same, but farther away from each other. In a message dated 11/18/01 12:40:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, nthomas@pol.net writes: > Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] 1977 Hostess/Twinkie Question > Date: 11/18/01 12:40:44 PM Pacific Standard Time > From: nthomas@pol.net (Neal Thomas) > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Hi all- > Sat down today to sort through some food issue cards I have. I am > confused by the 1977 Hostess and Twinkie cards, since I have three > diferent types. SCD says that the Twinkie cards have the black line > on the back, and the pic shows that black line outside what would be > the trimmed card (2 1/4 x 3 1/4), and I have a few of these, but if > the card is trimmed to that size, and the black line is trimmed off, > is there any other way to tell the difference. Also, I have a Phil > Niekro card, where the writing on the back is smaller, and the black > line is on the card after it was trimmed to 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. Is the > Nierko the only twinkies card I have and the picute in SCD is wrong, > or am I really mixed up? Thanks for the help. > Neal ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:37:01 EST Subject: TWICE IN ONE WEEK--ebay fun To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com So, last week i got the wrong card from a dealer and it turns out that tim newcomb had my card and i had his...yesterday, i open ebay package and pull decent t-205 clarke and wonder why it is not the griffith i won...turns out that he sent me the wrong card and that John Harrell won the Clarke. Two ebay obc mistakes in one week! What are the odds on that....John, your card will be going out sometime this week. Take care- ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:44:26 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sweendoger@aol.com By opinion is that he just has A-hole in his genes. Second (and third) generation major leaguers come along with different "previews" of the major leagues. They witnessed the behind the scenes (press/club house/fans) reality of the game at a younger age. They say that Ken Griffey grew up around the hype of the Big Red Machine - thus the pressure of being a big leaguer seems more natural, plus his Dad seemed like a guy with his head on his shoulders. Although I am starting to wonder about a guy like Griffey having to be talked into attending the homerun derby at the allstar game each year. However, wasn't Bobby Bonds known for being a big jerk?... Barry probably saw this as a kid and thought to himself. Look at all of these (white) press writers, fans, and owners giving my dad a hard time and no respect. I think that Barry came into the league with this chip on his shoulder. The fact that he does a Reggie times 10 at the plate stems from the fact that he has no respect for the game's history. He watched it as a business as a kid not a cherished game, whereas guys like McGuire watched the built up glory of its event at ballparks or listening to Joe Garagiola and Tony Kubek on NBC's Game of the Week. My $0.02, Pat Sweeney In a message dated 11/20/01 5:52:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, jcollins12@triad.rr.com writes: > Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP > Date: 11/20/01 5:52:16 AM Pacific Standard Time > From: jcollins12@triad.rr.com (John Collins) > To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Well, Barry Bonds has won a record 4th MVP award. Everybody > knew it was coming. From his on field accomplishments, I can > certainly say that he deserved it. 73 home runs? Who in their > right mind thought we would ever see that? He also broke the > Babe's record for highest slugging pct. in a season and the most > walks. And though only a handful of men (all Hall of Famers) > ever won as many as 3 MVP awards, you knew it was only a matter > of time before somebody won 4. Steve Carlton started the trend > with the Cy Young Award, winning 4, and now Clemens has 6. I > wonder if he has enough wall space at home. > I must say though, that the announcement of the award, while > no surprise, didn't make me the least bit happy for Bonds. > Bonds is the ultimate "modern" player. He argues with the press, > is a jerk to the fans, and holds out for more and more millions. > But this is nothing new. That brings up images of Ted Williams > jawing with writers and spitting or lining baseballs at booing > Fenway fans. But there is some element of Bonds' play that has > brought baseball to a new level of arrogance. When Roger Maris > hit number 61, he ran around the bases like always with his head > down and had to be forced to take a curtain call by his teammates > who wouldn't let him sit down when he got to the bench. McGwire > pumped his fist in genuine thrill when he hit number 62, but > was in such a dreamland that he missed first base and had to > go back and tag it. People were truly thrillled for him. Was > anybody really happy for Bonds? Barry, not just with homer number > 70, or 71, but with every single one he hits, it seems, will > stand and watch the ball go out like he is God's ulitmate gift > to the game. He no doubt makes his distant cousin Reggie Jackson > proud by doing this (another that I can't stand). > Does anybody else have any light to shed on why Bonds is the > way he is? He is certainly is one of if not the best player > of his generation and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But he is > not now, and has never been terribly popular. 3-time MVP award > winners include names like Musial, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra, Schmidt. > Barry has won 4, but I still don't associate him anywhere close > to the category I put those players in. > I hope I'm not offending any Giants or Pirates fans, but just > wanted to share an opinion and see if anyone would like to share > theirs. > Happy Thanksgiving, > John ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] T206 Booklet on Ebay Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:06:55 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Hi Bob and others-- it left me wanting more info, but as Doug says, it's worth $6-- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Donaldson To: OBC_Ramblings Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 7:09 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] T206 Booklet on Ebay > I've noticed a T206 booklet on ebay for quite some time. > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1034918936 Looks > interesting. Has anybody bought this and if so would you recommend it. > thanks > Bob > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Warped Card Workshop Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:25:26 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Sitting at home with the flu, in need of a project. I'm sure there is a lot of knowledge in this group about this topic. Quite a number of cards in my collection suffer from heavy warping, likely from having a bath somewhere along the line. (I know, unusual having cards in that condition in THIS group!) Ken M. will no doubt suggest that I immerse the rest of my cards, so that they ALL match. However, I suspect it will cut down on the workload if I just try to "straighten out" a few cards with varying degrees of I'd like to get a few of these puppies up to at least a PSA 2 Fair. Any ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:15:37 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1977 Hostess/Twinkie Question From: Neal Thomas Thanks for the info, Pat--I still have no idea what this Niekro card is then. The font size is about 4 points smaller than all the other, and the stats only cover about 60% of the back of the card (already trimmed to the dotted lines on the front. The rest of the back has a thick black line, but it is not the same as the picture in SCD. Anyone else have any idea about these? ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Sweendoger@aol.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1977 Hostess/Twinkie Question Date: 11/20/2001 11:13am For what it is worth.... The only difference that I can tell between a black lined card and a panel card (on some of my cards) is that that the "justification" seems to be more spread out. That is - the point size of the characters are the same, but farther away from each other. In a message dated 11/18/01 12:40:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, nthomas@pol.net writes: > Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] 1977 Hostess/Twinkie Question > Date: 11/18/01 12:40:44 PM Pacific Standard Time > From: nthomas@pol.net (Neal Thomas) > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Hi all- > Sat down today to sort through some food issue cards I have. I am > confused by the 1977 Hostess and Twinkie cards, since I have three > diferent types. SCD says that the Twinkie cards have the black > on the back, and the pic shows that black line outside what would > the trimmed card (2 1/4 x 3 1/4), and I have a few of these, but > the card is trimmed to that size, and the black line is trimmed > is there any other way to tell the difference. Also, I have a > Niekro card, where the writing on the back is smaller, and the > line is on the card after it was trimmed to 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. Is the > Nierko the only twinkies card I have and the picute in SCD is > or am I really mixed up? Thanks for the help. > Neal ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Warped Card Workshop Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:35:37 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" Simplicity itself, Grant. Merely send the card in for grading. It will come back in a nice plastic slab which will hold the card perfectly flat. -Dave Fallen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Rainsley" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Warped Card Workshop > Sitting at home with the flu, in need of a project. I'm sure there is a > of knowledge in this group about this topic. > Quite a number of cards in my collection suffer from heavy warping, likely > from having a bath somewhere along the line. (I know, unusual having cards > in that condition in THIS group!) > Ken M. will no doubt suggest that I immerse the rest of my cards, so that > they ALL match. However, I suspect it will cut down on the workload if I > just try to "straighten out" a few cards with varying degrees of > undulations. > I'd like to get a few of these puppies up to at least a PSA 2 Fair. Any > suggestions? > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:12:58 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1951 Topps Redback - Available From: jimbo@albany.net Whitey Lockman, #41 in a series of 52, looking for a good home. A speedy NY Giant flychaser, Whitey stands 6'1' and weighs 190. Last year, he batted at a .295 clip. ================= To: grains@dccnet.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Warped Card Workshop Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:16:55 -0500 From: abaran@perriergroup.com I remember when I was a kid, I put the cards on my mom's ironing board, covered them with a towel, and put a hot iron on them for a while. If I remember correctly, it worked pretty well. But don't take my advise and try this on any important cards until you've tested it for yourself. My method was hardly scientific. Andy Baran Midwest Regional Sales Manager (203) 629-7449 (Office) (203) 915-1324 (Cell) (419) 715-2406 (Fax) -----Original Message----- From: Grant Rainsley [mailto:grains@dccnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:25 PM To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Warped Card Workshop Sitting at home with the flu, in need of a project. I'm sure there is a lot of knowledge in this group about this topic. Quite a number of cards in my collection suffer from heavy warping, likely from having a bath somewhere along the line. (I know, unusual having cards in that condition in THIS group!) Ken M. will no doubt suggest that I immerse the rest of my cards, so that they ALL match. However, I suspect it will cut down on the workload if I just try to "straighten out" a few cards with varying degrees of I'd like to get a few of these puppies up to at least a PSA 2 Fair. Any To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:19:45 EST Subject: Here's a Koufax.. To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com 65 OPC... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1033576309 ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:28:37 EST Subject: Book survey To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi all, Just taking an informal survey: If you were stranded on a deserted island and were allowed just three baseball books to read, what would they be? For example, I would choose, in order: 1. Ball Four, by Jim Bouton; 2. The Glory of Their Times, by Lawrence Ritter; 3. Total Baseball, by John Thorn, Pete Palmer, et. al There are others I would want to take, but hey, I set the guidelines so I guess I have to follow them. e-mail me at BDAngelo@aol.com, and I will publish the results in a week or so. ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:36:49 -0500 To: vct@yahoogroups.com,octraders@yahoogroups.com, Subject: "Cards for Kids" 2001 From: Dan Austin For the past few years, members from many of the web's top notch baseball card trading groups have gotten together and given up some of their sports cards in order to make a donation to St. Louis Children's Hospital. Our intent has been to lift the spirits of some kids who probably didn't want to be there, while at the same time providing them with some goodies in the hopes of spreading the joy of trading cards. It was all a very simple effort but one that we hoped would add a few smiles to some young faces and provide the children with a little something they may not otherwise have had. The project has been a huge success with great participation across many card groups, and we have collected 10's of thousands of cards during this time along with card supplies, various toys, ball caps, ball gloves, etc. As it so happens, the pediatrician who hands out the cards is a baseball card fan as well and has generously agreed to head up the effort again this year. (edited from last year's message) Dr. Mark Manary: "I am a pediatrician in the St. Louis Children's Hospital emergency room. Last Christmas we had something special to give our young visitors on the days around Christmas. There were some donated baseball cards from a trading card group, I was told. Neatly boxed, we offered them to boys and girls of school age. The response was magnificent. Squeals of delight as they recognized current and recent Cardinals (St. Louis is a baseball town). Whether the trip to the ER was for something simple like stitches or something serious like a systemic infection, the cards did bring joy to these young hearts. For our very young visitors another group donated stuffed animals, so it was nice to have the cards to offer the older kids. It was a great way to bring a some cheer at Christmas time, a superb service project. I would be eager to see baseball card collectors do it again. Members could send me their donated cards and I would package them in envelopes and distribute them at Christmas at the hospital to our young This is a great opportunity to spread some good cheer and to clear out some extra cards at the same time. Got a ton of dupes you don't know what to do with? Send em! New cards? Old Cards? Football? Basketball? Baseball? Hockey? NASCAR? Send em! Whatever you have to send would be great. Since this will be targeted at kids in the St. Louis area, Cardinals/Rams cards, or cards of Cards stars from the past or present would probably be especially prized. A Mark McGwire or Albert Pujols card here and there would probably make some kid's week. But, whether you are simply clearing out some dupes or unwanted cards, or selecting a few "treasures" from your collection, please know that any effort on your part will be greatly appreciated by these children. In the past, various trading card organizations have spearheaded this effort, but I believe it has grown well beyond any single group. Its a powerful effort of good will that we all can participate in. Dr. Manary again has graciously offered to be the point of contact for the donations this year. You can send donations of all shapes and sizes to him at the following address: "Cards for Kids" c/o Dr. Mark Manary 7435 Flora Avenue St. Louis. MO 63143 Mark notes that "It would be great to receive tons of cards (of all kinds)", so fire away! Pass the word to your collecting buddies! Thanks for your support! Thanks for reading to the end, and may God bless you and yours during this holiday season. - Dan Austin ================= To: ChicoD1@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Here's a Koufax.. Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:46:56 From: "Al Cummings" That took almost 20 minutes. What happened Dan? Big Al in Seattle >From: ChicoD1@aol.com >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Here's a Koufax.. >Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:19:45 EST >65 OPC... >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1033576309 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:57:38 EST Subject: Survey on Deserted island books- my 2 cents or 3 worth To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda- here are my 3 books i would bring with me 1. Maybe I'll Pitch Forever- by Satchel Paige 2. My Favorite Summer 1956- by Mickey Mantle 3.The Babe Ruth Story- by Babe Ruth Hornorable mention- Blackball Stars -Negro League Pioneers by John B. ================= To: , "Grant Rainsley" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Warped Card Workshop Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:01:36 -0500 From: "galtemos" I would go to Afghanistan, and find a nice flat rock near a cave where Osama bin Laden is likely to be hiding. Then I would tape the card against the face of the rock, using as little tape as possible. Within a very short time, either a Bunker Buster (5,000 pounds) or a Daisy Cutter (15,000 pounds) will come floating down from the sky. The ensuing explosion will be guaranteed to produce the flattest card since the days of Jefferson Burdick. As an added bonus, the card will now even be slightly oversized. You can therefore trim it to restore it to its original dimensions, with razor sharp Gem Mint 10 corners. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to ask. > From: Grant Rainsley > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Warped Card Workshop > Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:25 PM > Sitting at home with the flu, in need of a project. I'm sure there is a > of knowledge in this group about this topic. > Quite a number of cards in my collection suffer from heavy warping, > from having a bath somewhere along the line. (I know, unusual having > in that condition in THIS group!) > Ken M. will no doubt suggest that I immerse the rest of my cards, so that > they ALL match. However, I suspect it will cut down on the workload if I > just try to "straighten out" a few cards with varying degrees of > undulations. > I'd like to get a few of these puppies up to at least a PSA 2 Fair. Any > suggestions? > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Any 1934 Goudey guys? Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:10:14 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Hi guys-- I picked up a few extra 1934 Goudey high numbers-- I'd love to trade them for my high number needs I need: 79, 82, 83, 86, 87, 89, 95 I have: 76, 78, 80, 91, 93 Condition in the Good range overall. Let me know if you can help. Tim Newcomb ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:20:03 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Here's a Koufax.. To: alcattle@hotmail.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com Geez, Remind me to move my fingers away from the mouth quicker, I alomst lost a finger ! I wonder if that guy pays a commission! Original Message Subj: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Here's a Koufax.. Date: 11/20/01 8:47:22 PM Eastern Standard Time From: alcattle@hotmail.com (Al Cummings) To: ChicoD1@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com That took almost 20 minutes. What happened Dan? Big Al in Seattle >From: ChicoD1@aol.com >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Here's a Koufax.. >Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:19:45 EST >65 OPC... >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item1033576309 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-xc04.mx.aol.com (rly-xc04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.137]) by air-xc05.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINXC54-1120204722; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:47:22 -0500 Received: from hotmail.com (f77.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.237.77]) by rly-xc04.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXC43-1120204658; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:46:58 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:46:57 -0800 Received: from 12.13.226.14 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:46:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.13.226.14] From: "Al Cummings" To: ChicoD1@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Here's a Koufax.. Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:46:56 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2001 01:46:57.0277 (UTC) ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:23:39 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Book survey To: BDAngelo@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com 1) Ball Four- Bouton 2) The Boys of Summer- Roger Kahn 3)The Amazing Mets- Maury Allen 3a) Can't anybody here play this game? - Jimmy Breslin Original Message Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] Book survey Date: 11/20/01 8:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time From: bdangelo@aol.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Hi all, Just taking an informal survey: If you were stranded on a deserted island and were allowed just three baseball books to read, what would they be? For example, I would choose, in order: 1. Ball Four, by Jim Bouton; 2. The Glory of Their Times, by Lawrence Ritter; 3. Total Baseball, by John Thorn, Pete Palmer, et. al There are others I would want to take, but hey, I set the guidelines so I guess I have to follow them. e-mail me at BDAngelo@aol.com, and I will publish the results in a week or so. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: < Received: from rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (rly-yb02.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.2]) air-yb02.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINYB28-1120203243; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:32:43 -0500 Received: from n28.groups.yahoo.com (n28.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.78]) by rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYB22-1120203233; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:32:33 -0500 Received: from [10.1.1.222] by n28.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Nov 2001 01:28:45 -0000 X-Sender: BDAngelo@aol.com X-Apparently-To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 21 Nov 2001 01:28:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 29159 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 01:28:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2001 01:28:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m01.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.4) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 01:28:43 -0000 Received: from BDAngelo@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id r.79.1e70bd0a (15902) for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:28:37 -0500 Received: from web40.aolmail.aol.com (web40.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.1]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID95-1120202837; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:28:37 -0500 To: X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <79.1e70bd0a.292c5d45@aol.com> From: bdangelo@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com; contact Delivered-To: mailing list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:28:37 EST Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Book survey ================= To: , "John Collins" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:31:26 -0500 From: "galtemos" I agree with your assessment of Bonds, but I think it is a bad rap to put the great Ted Williams in the same category. Teddy Ballgame was a two-time war hero, and gave unselfishly to the Jimmy Fund in Boston. He was treated most unfairly by some terrible Boston writers, most notably Dave Egan and Bill Cunningham. There is an excellent recounting of some of this in Elden Auker's new book, "Sleeper Cars and Flannel Uniforms." And Ted's teammates revered him..........which cannot be said about Bonds. > From: John Collins > To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP > Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:50 AM > Well, Barry Bonds has won a record 4th MVP award. Everybody > knew it was coming. From his on field accomplishments, I can > certainly say that he deserved it. 73 home runs? Who in their > right mind thought we would ever see that? He also broke the > Babe's record for highest slugging pct. in a season and the most > walks. And though only a handful of men (all Hall of Famers) > ever won as many as 3 MVP awards, you knew it was only a matter > of time before somebody won 4. Steve Carlton started the trend > with the Cy Young Award, winning 4, and now Clemens has 6. I > wonder if he has enough wall space at home. > I must say though, that the announcement of the award, while > no surprise, didn't make me the least bit happy for Bonds. > Bonds is the ultimate "modern" player. He argues with the press, > is a jerk to the fans, and holds out for more and more millions. > But this is nothing new. That brings up images of Ted Williams > jawing with writers and spitting or lining baseballs at booing > Fenway fans. But there is some element of Bonds' play that has > brought baseball to a new level of arrogance. When Roger Maris > hit number 61, he ran around the bases like always with his head > down and had to be forced to take a curtain call by his teammates > who wouldn't let him sit down when he got to the bench. McGwire > pumped his fist in genuine thrill when he hit number 62, but > was in such a dreamland that he missed first base and had to > go back and tag it. People were truly thrillled for him. Was > anybody really happy for Bonds? Barry, not just with homer number > 70, or 71, but with every single one he hits, it seems, will > stand and watch the ball go out like he is God's ulitmate gift > to the game. He no doubt makes his distant cousin Reggie Jackson > proud by doing this (another that I can't stand). > Does anybody else have any light to shed on why Bonds is the > way he is? He is certainly is one of if not the best player > of his generation and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But he is > not now, and has never been terribly popular. 3-time MVP award > winners include names like Musial, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra, Schmidt. > Barry has won 4, but I still don't associate him anywhere close > to the category I put those players in. > I hope I'm not offending any Giants or Pirates fans, but just > wanted to share an opinion and see if anyone would like to share > theirs. > Happy Thanksgiving, > John > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: , Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Book survey Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:38:22 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" 1. Fireside Book of Baseball Vol 1, edited by Charles Einstein 2. Babe, Robert Creamer 3. Historical Baseball Abstract, Bill James ================= To: "galtemos" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:23:25 -0500 From: "John Collins" Just FYI........... I did not mean to suggest anything derogatory about the Splendid Splinter Williams in my first e-mail. Bonds may have 4 MVPs, but anyone with 2 Triple Crowns and a .344 lifetime batting average could clearly mop the floor with him. Williams is one of my all time favorites, and I agree, he faced some very evil writers, especially Egan. Ted's support of charities, and particularly the Jimmy Fund was huge, and yes, he was a 2 time war hero on top of all of that. Certainly did not mean to downgrade Williams to the Bonds category........ ----- Original Message ----- From: galtemos To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com ; John Collins Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP I agree with your assessment of Bonds, but I think it is a bad rap to put the great Ted Williams in the same category. Teddy Ballgame was a two-time war hero, and gave unselfishly to the Jimmy Fund in Boston. He was treated most unfairly by some terrible Boston writers, most notably Dave Egan and Bill Cunningham. There is an excellent recounting of some of this in Elden Auker's new book, "Sleeper Cars and Flannel Uniforms." And Ted's teammates revered him..........which cannot be said about Bonds. > From: John Collins > To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP > Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:50 AM > Well, Barry Bonds has won a record 4th MVP award. Everybody > knew it was coming. From his on field accomplishments, I can > certainly say that he deserved it. 73 home runs? Who in their > right mind thought we would ever see that? He also broke the > Babe's record for highest slugging pct. in a season and the most > walks. And though only a handful of men (all Hall of Famers) > ever won as many as 3 MVP awards, you knew it was only a matter > of time before somebody won 4. Steve Carlton started the trend > with the Cy Young Award, winning 4, and now Clemens has 6. I > wonder if he has enough wall space at home. > I must say though, that the announcement of the award, while > no surprise, didn't make me the least bit happy for Bonds. > Bonds is the ultimate "modern" player. He argues with the press, > is a jerk to the fans, and holds out for more and more millions. > But this is nothing new. That brings up images of Ted Williams > jawing with writers and spitting or lining baseballs at booing > Fenway fans. But there is some element of Bonds' play that has > brought baseball to a new level of arrogance. When Roger Maris > hit number 61, he ran around the bases like always with his head > down and had to be forced to take a curtain call by his teammates > who wouldn't let him sit down when he got to the bench. McGwire > pumped his fist in genuine thrill when he hit number 62, but > was in such a dreamland that he missed first base and had to > go back and tag it. People were truly thrillled for him. Was > anybody really happy for Bonds? Barry, not just with homer number > 70, or 71, but with every single one he hits, it seems, will > stand and watch the ball go out like he is God's ulitmate gift > to the game. He no doubt makes his distant cousin Reggie Jackson > proud by doing this (another that I can't stand). > Does anybody else have any light to shed on why Bonds is the > way he is? He is certainly is one of if not the best player > of his generation and a first ballot Hall of Famer. But he is > not now, and has never been terribly popular. 3-time MVP award > winners include names like Musial, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra, Schmidt. > Barry has won 4, but I still don't associate him anywhere close > to the category I put those players in. > I hope I'm not offending any Giants or Pirates fans, but just > wanted to share an opinion and see if anyone would like to share > theirs. > Happy Thanksgiving, > John > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: Subject: Book survey Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:31:54 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" I'm assuming you can't take your cards with you, so: 1. "The Book"-to remind you that there IS a good reason to get rescued (you know, The Great American Card Flipping etc...) 2. "The Long Season"-Jim Brosnan-wonderful insight into '50's and '60's 3. "The Jackie Robinson Story"-just for inspiration. Hi all, Just taking an informal survey: If you were stranded on a deserted island and were allowed just three baseball books to read, what would they be? For example, I would choose, in order: 1. Ball Four, by Jim Bouton; 2. The Glory of Their Times, by Lawrence Ritter; 3. Total Baseball, by John Thorn, Pete Palmer, et. al There are others I would want to take, but hey, I set the guidelines so I guess I have to follow them. e-mail me at BDAngelo@aol.com, and I will publish the results in a week or To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:33:35 EST Subject: 73 - 74 availables To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: XDDX@aol.com Hey guys- I picked up a box of junk from a local dealer which contained a bunch of 73s and 74s that need homes. I have a lot of company coming for Thanksgiving, so I don't have time to go through wantlists, but I do want them to find nice homes as soon as possible. Don't be shy! 73 Topps .... 74 Topps .... 74 Topps Traded ... 23T/43/51/59/62/63/73/139/269/348/428/458/485/534/544/612/618/630 Checklist ================= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:36:48 -0600 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] MVP From: Gary Pearce At 07:50 AM 11/20/01, John Collins wrote; >Well, Barry Bonds has won a record 4th MVP award. Everybody >knew it was coming. I wasn't so sure. I'm surprised Bonds won by the margin he did. For the last decade or so, NL MVP voting has been pretty decent but the AL voters have just flat fumbled the ball. It wouldn't have surprised me for the NL voters to bypass an overwhelming favorite for the 10th or 15th or 30th best candidate (Suzuki???) like the AL voters routinely do of late. >Bonds is the ultimate "modern" player. He argues with the press, >is a jerk to the fans, and holds out for more and more millions. As someone else noted, his opinion of sportswriters may well be shaped by his perceptions of the way his father was treated by writers. ISTR Bobby being portrayed as another in the long line of star "malcontent" Black players who don't kiss up to the almighty media. But my point is when has Bonds ever held out for more money or in any way failed to honor the terms of his contracts? By the last few years of his contract he was clearly a tremendous bargain for the Giants, but Bonds never asked for more money, asked to renegotiate his contract, held out, got caught smoking crack in a hotel room, or anything like that. All he's done is go from being "just" a Hall of Famer to either the #1 or #2 LF on the All-Time Team..... all the while saying the home runs don't matter, the walks don't matter, the steals don't matter.... all that matters is winning. >Was anybody really happy for Bonds? >Barry, not just with homer number 70, or 71, but with every single one he >hits, it seems, will stand and watch the ball go out like he is God's >ulitmate gift >to the game. Yeah, but it's a good thing Bonds doesn't have some camera-friendly choreographed "hop" when he thinks he's hit a homer or a set of rehearsed hand signals for the camera when he returns to the dugout? What kind of self-centered arrogant jerk would stoop to that level of trying to show up the opponent and promoting himself over his team? ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:19:25 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Book survey From: Jerry Coker > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:28:37 EST > From: bdangelo@aol.com > Subject: Book survey > Hi all, > Just taking an informal survey: If you were stranded on a deserted > island and were allowed just three baseball books to read, what would > they be? 1. Ball Four - Jim Bouton 2. The Boys of Summer - Roger Kahn 3. The Unforgettable Season - G.H. Fleming (I like this one because it covers the 1908 season, thus, seems to make my T206 cards become more alive ;) Jerry Coker Computer Network Support Career Services Center University of Georgia ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:12:05 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Book survey To: BDAngelo@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com 1. The Celebrant (Love Matty and Fiction) 2. Shoeless Joe 3. Baseball Encyclopedia -- on a desert isle you will have a lot of time for fantasy baseball :) ================= To: Subject: More Books Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:31:03 -0500 From: "Rick Redpath" - Baseball Cards of the Fifties: The Complete Topps Cards 1950 - 1959 (If I can't have the cards this is the next best thing. Includes the 1950s Bowman cards too.) - Baseball Encyclopedia (Got lots of time to kill and this will help in adding to the all-time Desert Island Team, with guys like Heinie Sand, Paul LaPalme, Salty Now for the 3 books :-) - The Glory of Their Times, by the other Larry Ritter, for the older days. - The Boys of Summer, for the '50s era - Any Collection by Roger Angell for some more recent stories. Do I get a comfy chair too? ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:37:35 -0500 Subject: Question for all you gamers out there To: OBC Ramblings From: Jimmy Parker Okay, here's the deal: I have a step-brother who is 12. Every time I visit, he whoops my butt in MLB on Playstation. Yeah, my hand-eye coordination ain't what it used to be, if it was Pac-Man on Atari, I'd win every time hands down.. Anyway, I've been trying to teach him some of the finer points of the game as well as some of the strategies. So, I was thinking about getting him some type of baseball simulation game for Christmas. I was just wondering which one, APBA or Strat-O-Matic seem to be the big 2, but are there others? Could any of you who play give me a brief overview of the games, and your preference. Please note I'd rather not get a "computer game" so it would need to be a good "table" game. Any help is appreciated. Save the gum for me... ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: MVP discussion clarifications Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 05:52:21 -0800 From: "John Collins" Hi all, I did not mean to suggest that Barry Bonds was not deserving of the MVP award, nor that he is the only player in the history of the game to have attitude and a slight chip on his shoulder. I only meant to suggest that "Gee wouldn't it be nice..." if the game's greatest players, heroes, and 4-time MVP winners could also be the game's most well respected and humble players. Players like Ryan, Ripken and McGwire make me proud of the National Pastime and the way it is represented. Bonds, for several reasons mentioned before, does not. I have the recurring image that he would be better suited to doing end-zone dances in the NFL. Hope everybody has a Happy Thanksgiving, ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: The Hall of Fame........ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:05:54 -0800 From: "John Collins" Given the level of feedback I received on my "Bonds bashing" series of e-mails, I thought it would be fun to start another little holiday debate. (Okay, so I am a little bored, too). These are all probably questions that we have debated with each other at least a couple of times before, but I thought it would be fun to see some discussion again: 1. Does Roger Maris belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not? Will the new Veterans Committee rules help him out? 2. Does Gil Hodges belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not? 3. (What may still be the biggest debate....) Do Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe belong in the Hall of Fame (yet....or ever?) It would be fun to get a little group feedback going.....perhaps I could take a poll and publish the results if we get enough. ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:04:03 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The Hall of Fame........ To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi guys, Here are my thoughts: <<1. Does Roger Maris belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not?>> Roger Maris was a fine player, and for three years -- 1960-61-62 -- he was a dominant hitting star. But Hall of Fame? No. He hit 275 homers and had 851 RBIs. Led the AL in RBIs in 1960-61 (142 in '61). Only topped 30 homers one other time, in 1962, and had 100 RBIs in 1962. He was a decent fielder with a strong arm. His throw in Game 7 of the 1962 World Series in the bottom of the ninth perhaps saved the Series for the Yanks, forcing the Giants to hold the tying run at third. Then McCovey lined out to end it. But over the course of his career, he did not maintain consistent numbers to be considered a Hall of Famer. I'm a Yankee fan, but whenever I hear the Maris candidacy brought up in the media, it invariably comes from the New York media. I suspect some of the old-time writers, who bashed Maris unmercifully during the 1960s, feel a twinge of guilt about it and perhaps want to make things "right.'' Good player. Not great. Fine man, too. <> I think it will. The fact that he played on seven World Series teams cannot be ignored. <<2. Does Gil Hodges belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not?>> Hodges I believe does belong. 375 homers and 1,274 RBIs; homers and lifetime average are comparable to Tony Perez. Same time of personality -- quiet guy on a flashy team. Topped 100 RBIs seven times. Played on six World Series teams and managed the 69 MEts to a WS title. Led his league in fielding three times. Played 150 or more games in a season eight times. I think Veterans committee will get him in. <<3. (What may still be the biggest debate....) Do Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe belong in the Hall of Fame (yet....or ever?)>> Both men have the numnbers. Not sure if Joe Jackson really carried through on the fix. I just can't see it right now. Perhaps someday. I know Ted Williams has championed Jackson's cause, even has him in his Hitter's Hall of Fame. But he certainly does not think Rose belongs, judging by the answers I got up there when I asked some of the caretakers. The taint of gambling really makes it hard to say yes to either. I have to believe if Rose hadn't done this as a manager and got found out, he would have a plaque in Cooperstown right now. But if Bud Selig relents and lets either or both come off the non-eligible list, they probably will be inducted. And when that happens, perhaps a descendant of Hal Chase can do their introductions. Just my thoughts. ================= To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The Hall of Fame........ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:22:25 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" >1. Does Roger Maris belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not? > Will the new Veterans Committee rules help him out? No. One excellent season should not be enough for the Hall of Fame. >2. Does Gil Hodges belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not? Yes. His accomplishments as a player were border line but the fact that he defied the odds in leading the Mets to the Championship in 1969 puts him over the top. >3. (What may still be the biggest debate....) Do Pete Rose and >Shoeless Joe belong in the Hall of Fame (yet....or ever?) Pete, no. Joe, yes. They were both banned from baseball for life. Pete's still alive and Joe is not. Therefore Joe's ban should be lifted. Just my opinions. -Bob Reed Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:27:05 -0500 (EST) To: Tradingbases@yahoogroups.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, Subject: Donate Soup For Free Please Do Not Delete From: Neal Thomas From: Jonjoles@aol.com To: nthomas@pol.net Subject: Fwd: Donate Soup For Free Please Do Not Delete Date: 11/21/2001 08:33am From: Ccddkr@cs.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:52:04 EST Subject: Donate Soup For Free Please Do Not Delete To: TeacherSB@aol.com, Cscook@upath.com, Curls712@aol.com, Bigashsis@aol.com, From: C9d5k2@cs.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:57:45 EST Subject: Fwd: Donate Soup For Free Please Do Not Delete To: Ccddkr@cs.com From: MzMol32@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:54:34 EST Subject: Fwd: Donate Soup For Free Please Do Not Delete To: Bulbman2@aol.com, MMuffy67@aol.com, SD1DIVER@aol.com, BigJimBo1300@aol.com, From: Beerdrinker17219@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:24:51 EST Subject: Fwd: Donate Soup For Free Please Do Not Delete To: MzMol32@aol.com ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:36:38 EST Subject: Response to the Hall of Fame questions To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda- these are my responses to John Collins Hall of Fame questions: 1. Of course Maris belongs in the Hall of Fame because he is a Yankee 2.Hodges- NO --anyone who has played on a team that beat the Yankees in a World Series (1955) is automatically disqualified. 3.Rose and Shoeless Joe- Yes, but if they have done something bad against the game of baseball put their plaques in the men's bathroom at Cooperstown. ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:56:31 EST Subject: And you think mail delivery is bad right now- wait until Christmas time To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- This is Linda- i have the usual gripes that i have been seeing on the posts to the e-mail group about slow mail delivery and lost packages by the post office- but my biggest gripe about postal service is about the terribly long wait to get service to mail packages at my local post office near Christmas time- i live in a small city with only 1 post office and near Christmas there are long lines at that post office with people mailing packages-sometimes the line is so long it takes over an hour to get up to the front of the line- AND that was in normal times- i am afraid to think of what the wait is going to be this year- ( can't they make an exception and have a special window just for people mailing baseball cards to on line groups?- i have made that suggestion to the manager at the post office and for some reason he gets a good laugh out of it)- i am telling you guys one thing- if i owe you cards in a trade you are waiting until lines thin out at the post office after Christmas until i mail out your cards because i am NOT standing in line for 2 hours just to mail a package- and i notice service is getting poorer and poorer at the post office even though the price of mailing a letter goes up and up- they seem to have fewer and fewer people serving customers behind the counter at the post office and the wait in line for service is getting to be ridiculous. i mean i actually waited over an hour in line last Christmas because of the long lines in my one post office little horse hick town i live in.Northridge- bye, Linda ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: re: Hall of Fame..... Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:23:33 -0800 From: "John Collins" Okay, after reading the first few responses, I will put my 2 cents in on my own poll: First of all, Roger Maris: Thank you, Linda for being the first yes vote, though your sole reason that "he's a Yankee" probably won't fly even with the new veterans committee. True enough, Roger had only 275 career home runs despite his 61 in '61. True enough, his career batting average was only .260 But I was surprised to find that the "only had 1 good year" sentiment still exists out there among some of you seasoned baseball fans. Let's not forget that Roger won the MVP award back to back in '60 and '61. Of all the men who won back to back MVP's, and all except Dale Murphy who has won the award more than once, Roger is still the only one eligible not enshrined in Cooperstown. Roger had only 4 100+ RBI seasons in 12 years in the bigs. Well, Mantle only had 5 in 18 big league seasons. People point at the fielding record and say well, he was good, had a strong arm and made that throw in the '62 series, but he only won 1 gold glove. Guess how many Mantle won? 1. People also often point to flashier fielders of the day, Mays, Aaron, Clemente. Well guess what outfielder has a higher fielding percentage than any of them? Roger Maris. I realize I am not using the "traditional" Hall of Fame standards for outfielders in making my argument here, those being career batting average and home runs. But look at it, I don't think anyone would make the argument that Roger is not deserving had he batted .290 instead of .260, or if he had 400 homers instead of 275. After all, Killebrew had a queasy .256 lifetime average, but the strength of his almost 600 homers gave him no problems in HOF consideration. There has to be some middle ground between these 2 considerations, and I believe that middle ground for Maris is the '61 season, the Yankees that went to the WS 7 times with him, and the back to back MVP's. Clearly, this "middle ground" consideration does not exist for outfielders yet. But think about it, it clearly exists for infielders. Though granted, their fielding work is harder, does anyone believe Mazeroski is in the hall on the basis of his .260 average and 138 career home runs? No, he is not. Is Pee Wee Reese in for his .269 average and 126 homers? No, he is in for his leadership of pennant winning teams, good fielding, and even on his HOF plaque, it says "for helping to ease Jackie Robinson's enterance into the majors." Well if Reese can be in for helping out Robinson, then why does everybody try to ignore the home run record when looking at Maris? Remember the record that Roger broke was without a doubt the most cherished record in the baseball establishment in 1961. Ruth's career home run record wasn't even near being challenged at that point in time. Then Maris' record stood for longer than Ruth's had. Sorry folks, but that has to count for something. One final point: if Roger Maris doesn't deserve to be in, then why does the Hall of Fame have "Why is Roger Maris not in the Hall of Fame?" listed as one of the most frequently asked questions on their website? Clearly, most serious baseball fans think he should be in, and many so-so fans think that he is already in. Hank Aaron was recently quoted as saying he thinks Maris should be in, and of course Mantle said that he's a hall of famer in his book. The time has come.... Veterans Committee for Maris in 2003 ! I'm out of time....whoops, I only wrote about Maris. Will try to get to the others in a later post. ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: oh yeah... Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:47:37 -0800 From: "John Collins" Messed up a couple of numbers. Mantle had 4 100 RBI seasons, Maris 3. Also forgot to mention that Maris was a 4 time All-Star (but he only had 1 good season). ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Shill for Kevin Savage Auctions Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:54:03 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Kevin Savage runs auctions in SCD each week. He'll also e-mail or snail mail you the auction notices so you don't have to subscribe. In the auction ending next Wednesday, he has a 1953 Topps Mantle and Mays, both in OBC condition. Call him at (866)861-2330 for details. End of shill. ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:08:56 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The Hall of Fame........ To: From: lzurawski@aol.com Maris - no. He had a very short (3 year) peak, and a short career, and didn't put up the numbers to justify it. There are a lot of players better than Maris who are not in and who will never get in. I believe the hall of fame guidelines indicate that a player should not be elected based on a single achievement. Maybe there should be a separate category for players like Maris, Don Larsen, etc. Hodges - Based just on his playing career, I would say no. (I also don't think Perez should be in). But, taking his managing into consideration moves him up to a borderline case. Rose/Shoeless Joe - I could argue this both ways. However, I think the Hall of Fame's policy of making a player on baseball's ineligible list ineligible for the Hall is a cop out. Let the voters decide. Larry Z. ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] re: Hall of Fame..... Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:42:40 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" You make some very strong points for Roger's case. However I still don't think he's HOF material. You mentioned Dale Murphy. Murphy's totals are much better than Roger's yet Murphy is a border line candidate at best. Maris : 275 HR, 851 RBI, .260 Ave, 4 time All Star. Murphy: 398 HR, 1266 RBI, .265 Ave, 7 time All Star. By the way Murphy's fielding PCT was the same as Roger's...982. I tried to find a player from the same era of Maris' that put up similiar type numbers and the closest I could come was Bob Allison. Here's the Maris 5101 AB 826 Runs 1325 Hits 275 HR 851 RBI .260 Ave Allison 5032 AB 811 Runs 1281 Hits 256 HR 796 RBI .255 Ave Now nobody would ever consider Allison has a HOFer (although he'd make a great HOMer). Therefore I think Roger definitely deserves a "great achievment" award but not a plaque. -Bob R. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:26:47 EST Subject: lynn miller? To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi all, Does anyone have Lynn Miller's most recent e-mail? I'd like to thank him for a card he sent. ================= To: Subject: Lynn Miller Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:40:45 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Might as well all take note of this, sounds like Mr. Miller is making the ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:31:59 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The Hall of Fame........ To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com 1) unfortunately Maris is not a hall of famer. His lifetime average is weak for an outfielder of his time. He had really about 3 good years, not enough for me. 2) Yes for Hodges. From everything I hear and read, he was an outstanding 1b, and I think his managerial skills are something that has to be taken into consideration. He was overshadowed by some of the other players on his team. 3) Absolutely for both Rose and Jackson. Two of the greatest hitters of their times. Whatever Rose did, it had no effect on his playing ability. Based on 8 men out, Jackson gets too much blame for the 1919 scandal. ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Book survey Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:37:19 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" 1. Ball Four, by Jim Bouton; 2. Where They Ain't, Burt Solomon I only need two becaue I read so slow! ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:05:01 EST Subject: Lynn Miller & a short ramble To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: malsman250@cs.com Add my name to the Lynn Miller list - for you new guys, Lynn is a former member that, unlike Mr. Maris, is a sure bet if we ever established an OBC Hall of Fame. And, speaking of Mr. Maris - HOF, book, and MVP discussions are (excuse the geezer-like rambling), much like the "old days" of OBC - and I hope it keeps going for a while. ================= To: Subject: Lynn Miller Story-for the new kids Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:20:45 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Lynn wasn't in OBC for all that long, maybe a couple of years. But boy, did he make an impression. I'd be surprised if there is anybody who doesn't feel that Lynn is right up there on their "owe" list. He's sure on mine. Lynn was in the Navy for his career....hence his Ebay name of bubble-head. Yep, a submariner. Tough life, lot of time away from home, etc. When Lynn retired from the Navy, he eventually took up a position with the Navy Federal Credit Union. Where? Diego Garcia, a small island in the Indian Ocean. All this time he was supporting a wife and several (5?) kids in the For a while there was an unsubstantiated rumour that there was a Diego Garcia Printing Press running amok, because there seemed to be no end of cardboard coming out of that atoll. There has never been a more generous or caring member of OBC than Lynn. Lynn had some family problems a while back, had to give up Diego Garcia, and return to the Phillipines. I believe he now has two of his sons starting in the Navy, just like dear old Dad. Lynn made the decision to put the cardboard away, so he could concentrate on what is really important. He made a fine choice, and he'll always be one of my OBC Heroes. Yes, a shoe-in for the OBC HOF, if there ever was one. P.S. Don't tell him I said nice things about him, he would be embarrassed, that's the kind of guy he is. ================= To: "ramblings" Subject: I met 2 MLB players the other day.... Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:24:10 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" Jason Bere (pitcher, Cubs) and Walt Hriniak (former BoSox and ChiSox hitting coach) and they were both very polite and easy to talk to. This was at a church breakfast for Dads and their children who play sports. My son William had them both autograph his program after the breakfast, and got to shake both their hands. Then we went home and found a Jason Bere card and a card of Walt and I'm going to frame them with the program. William thinks it is pretty We had chance to ask questions (there were only about 200 people there) and Jason got most of the questions. When they said they would take one more, I got up and asked Walt to talk about the toughest pitcher he ever faced. He rattled off all the big names you would expect, then told a little story about facing Juan Marichal one day... 2 singles in his first 2 at bats, both with bases empty. Then 2 k's in his next two atbats, both with the bases loaded! "That is how good those guys were" was Walt's quote. Then he said, the toughest pitcher he ever faced was.....(drum roll please...) Fred Norman!!! He also said "is a guy you never heard of", and I corrected him on that one ('70 topps #427 ). The reason he gave was simply that he couldn't hit him. Struck out 4 times in one game against him. I thought that was a great I hope you are still reading, because we got another really cool story for a local TV reporter who covers the sox... short version... his wife was having a baby, they had the game on in the delivery room... baby comes out, dad looks at tv to see luis Alicea rounding the bases... He homered just as the baby was born. just a couple days later, reporter catches up to Alicea in the club house and tells him about it... Luis says "I have that ball", goes and gets it, signs and dates it and gives it to the guy!!! This was about 6 years ago (I can tell because the boy was there). I thought that was a really neat-o starry. I think I'm going to put Alicea in my "stars" book. Anyone with one of those checklist programs tell me all his topps card OBC Sean The only one ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:20:18 -0600 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The Hall of Fame........ From: Gary Pearce At 10:05 AM 11/21/01, John Collins wrote; >Given the level of feedback I received on my "Bonds bashing" >series of e-mails, I thought it would be fun to start another >little holiday debate. (Okay, so I am a little bored, too). At the risk of unleashing another firestorm of "feedback," I'll take the plunge here too... >1. Does Roger Maris belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not? No. Peak was too short and his off-peak value was extremely low. His entire candidacy basically boils down to "well he hit 61 HR in 1961, so there." Using Bill James Similarity Scores, the 10 hitters with most similar career totals to Maris include no Hall of Famers. The top 5 comps are Bob Allison, Hank Sauer, Jay Buhner, Jesse Barfield, and Tony Armas. That seems reasonable and none of these guys have ever received nor will receive substantial HoF support. > Will the new Veterans Committee rules help him out? Too soon to tell. >2. Does Gil Hodges belong in the Hall of Fame? Why or why not? I'll say no again here too. His top 5 career comps are Norm Cash, George Foster, Jack Clark, Boog Powell, and Joe Adcock. Fine players all, but not HoFers.... and there aren't any HoFers in his top 6-10 comps either. >3. (What may still be the biggest debate....) Do Pete Rose and >Shoeless Joe belong in the Hall of Fame (yet....or ever?) As historical exhibitions, sure. Pictured will Hal Chase and the rest of the Black Sox in a "Just Say No to Gambling on Baseball" ad, sure. As inductees, never... well unless Rose agrees to allow MLB to formally reopen their investigation of his gambling and is subsequently exonerated. Then I'd say he should go. Jackson though gave sworn testimony in court that he received money from gamblers in exchange for conspiring to throw the 1919 World Series. His own words say more than anything else I could add. ================= To: "ramblings" Subject: and another thing... :) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:29:06 -0500 From: "Sean McGowan" I forgot to ask... I don't have any dupes of Walt! anyone have a '70 #392 or #427 or any Hrinaik to spare? ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:36:22 EST Subject: Football anyone? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com 1977 Brian Kelley #414 1979 Dan Doornink #492 Also, Tipton specials: 1967 Mike Cuellar #97 1970 Checklist #244 ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:23:13 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: HOF? From: Originaleek@webtv.net Lot's of good arguments and much to think about. Personally, like the very game of Baseball, it comes down to emotions for me. I like and respect guys like Maris and Hodges who worked as hard as an HOFer and added dignity and respect to the game. I won't argue if they "should" be in the HOF, but I would like to see them in. Pete Rose, again it's feelings that won't bring me to support his entry to the HOF. I believe he brought disgrace to the game and remains defiant to this I actually could support Shoeless Joe's induction before Rose's. People make mistakes, Joe admitted his Rose will not. I believe Joe experienced tremendous guilt and shame over what he did and paid a very heavy price for his indiscretion, the same cannot be said for Rose. ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:30:33 -0600 To: 0ramblings Subject: Re: Hall of Fame..... From: Rick & Deb OBC Friends...Roger Maris and Johnny Callison were both rightfielders.... AVG-.260 HR-275 RBI-851 H-1325 2B-195 3B-42 FIELDING AVG-.982 AVG-.264 HR-226 RBI-840 H-1757 2B-321 3B-89 FIELDING AVG-.984 'Looks comparable. You could probably pick it apart (both ways) from other angles and using other numbers, but it's still close enough...and even though I'm Johnny's biggest fan, I'll be the first to tell you that he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. The second to tell you would be Johnny himself. Oh, and speaking of fielding (1.000 in 1968...Maris never 1.000), Johnny led the league in RF assists (career 175...Maris 76) 4 years in a row, but all those Gold Gloves went to Clemente. Oh, and Johnny's MVP award went to Boyer in '64 because of the Phillies' historic collapse. Oh, and Johnny's my pal. Hodges, no. Jackson, yes. Rose, yes (if he'll 'fess up...soon). Book: "The Johnny Callison Story" (out of print) Thanx...Rick Svetecz...looky here: http-> //home.fn.net/~debrick/favorite.htm ================= Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:46:41 -0600 To: 0ramblings Subject: Re: Hall of Fame..... From: Rick & Deb OBC Friends...Roger Maris and Johnny Callison were both rightfielders.... AVG-.260 HR-275 RBI-851 H-1325 2B-195 3B-42 FIELDING AVG-.982 AVG-.264 HR-226 RBI-840 H-1757 2B-321 3B-89 FIELDING AVG-.984 'Looks comparable. You could probably pick it apart (both ways) from other angles and using other numbers, but it's still close enough...and even though I'm Johnny's biggest fan, I'll be the first to tell you that he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. The second to tell you would be Johnny himself. Oh, and speaking of fielding (1.000 in 1968...Maris never 1.000), Johnny led the league in RF assists (career 175...Maris 76) 4 years in a row, but all those Gold Gloves went to Clemente. Oh, and Johnny's MVP award went to Boyer in '64 because of the Phillies' historic collapse. Oh, and Johnny's my pal. Hodges, no. Jackson, yes. Rose, yes (if he'll 'fess up...soon). Book: "The Johnny Callison Story" (out of print) Thanx...Rick Svetecz...looky here-> http://home.fn.net/~debrick/favorite.htm ================= Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:18:24 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF? To: Originaleek@webtv.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com I really can't see an arguement for why Rose is not in the hall. During his playing days (and really that is the crux of induction), he was an exemplary ballplayer, who played the game with a heart and desire that very few play with today. Besides being an all star at 5 postions (2b,3b,lf,rf,1b), he did accomplish a few minor feats (44 game hitting streak)...oh yeah... he demolished the all time hit record. So he became an ass while he managed. I have more of a problem with Fergie Jenkins getting caught with drugs (and he totally deserved his induction) than Rose betting. Growing up, everyone wanted to play 1/2 as hard as Charlie Hustle. There are more players that put a black eye on the game of baseball than Rose could ever do. (ie Steve Howe, Strawberry, etc.). Now despite the fact that Jim Rice and Eddie Murray acted as morons, should they not be allowed entrance? Carlton got in... all because of what they did ON the field. I have only seen a handful of players who had a magic stick like Rose (besides being <--getting long ladder and climbing off the Rose bandwagon... Original Message Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF? Date: 11/21/01 10:24:53 PM Eastern Standard Time From: Originaleek@webtv.net To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Lot's of good arguments and much to think about. Personally, like the very game of Baseball, it comes down to emotions for me. I like and respect guys like Maris and Hodges who worked as hard as an HOFer and added dignity and respect to the game. I won't argue if they "should" be in the HOF, but I would like to see them in. Pete Rose, again it's feelings that won't bring me to support his entry to the HOF. I believe he brought disgrace to the game and remains defiant to this I actually could support Shoeless Joe's induction before Rose's. People make mistakes, Joe admitted his Rose will not. I believe Joe experienced tremendous guilt and shame over what he did and paid a very heavy price for his indiscretion, the same cannot be said for Rose. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: < Received: from rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINYC11-1121222453; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:24:53 -0500 Received: from n1.groups.yahoo.com (n1.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.51])by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC31-1121222448; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:24:48 -0500 Received: from [10.1.4.52] by n1.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Nov 2001 03:23:19 -0000 X-Sender: OriginalEEK@webtv.net X-Apparently-To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 22 Nov 2001 03:23:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 47950 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 03:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2001 03:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 03:23:17 -0000 Received: from storefull-116.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-116.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.86]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTPid for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:23:17 -0800 Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull-116.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA24685; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:23:13 -0800 X-WebTV-Signature: 1 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20443-3BFC6FA1-177@storefull-116.iap.bryant.webtv.net> X-eGroups-From: OriginalEEK@webtv.net (Earl Kilbourn) From: Originaleek@webtv.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com; contact Delivered-To: mailing list OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:23:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF? ================= Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:22:16 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Better late....? From: Originaleek@webtv.net Favorite Baseball books 1.) Topps Baseball Cards: Detroit Tigers -Great pics of Topps Detroit Tigers cards from 1952 to 1988. Stats & info. 2.) Fear Strikes Out -Checked it out of Civic Park Library 4 times, did 2 written & 1 oral book reports. Got A's on 3.) Ball Four -Love a good expose'. Good night & have a great Thanksgiving! ================= To: Subject: OBC, OTR, and Christmas Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:49:43 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" Some of you are already aware that my other love (besides old baseball cards) is old radio programs (Old-Time Radio, OTR). I have blended the two andI have produced a CD that I think you may like. The CD contains 12 baseball games (or parts thereof) from 1934 to 1964. Inaddition, the CD contains 31 radio programs with a baseball theme, programs like Fibber McGee and Molly, Gunsmoke, and Ozzie and Harriett. All-in-all, I figure there is about 42 hours of pure listening pleasure on this one CD. This CD is free to any OBC member who requests it. It is my Christmas present to all. Please let me know if you want a copy, and provide me with your current mailing address. All of the games and programs are in MP3 format, which is why all of this can fit onto one CD. DO NOT TRY TO PLAY THE CD IN AN AUDIO CD PLAYER! Mostof you have a MP3 player installed on your computer already (even if you don't know it), but in case you don't I have included a free player right onthe CD itself so you can play the programs without any hassle. For those of you with portable MP3-CD players, you will be pleased to know that I resampled all the files to 32 kbit, 41.1kHz so these files will indeed play quite nicely on one of these devices. I will send an instruction sheet along with the CD and will provide free tech support via email. -Dave Fallen P.S., here is the complete listing: BASEBALL GAMES YEAR NY Yankees vs Detroit Tigers Baseball Cubs Vs White Sox WS Giants Vs Yankees G3 Indians vs Senators WS G5 Bos v Cle Red Sox Vs Yankees WS G3 Yankees vs Dodgers WS Game 4 Yankees Dodgers Chicago At Bklyn Ny Yankees At Boston Ny Mets Vs Cardinals St Louis Cardinals 1964 WS Games are split into multiple files (usually 4 files per game). Some games are not complete. You get what I got. SHOWS WITH A BASEBALL THEME PROGRAM Abbott and Costello 1947 Baseball Player 29:24 The Aldrich Family Henry the Shortstop The Adventures of Babe Ruth Dusty Collins The Adventures of Babe Ruth Dutch Reaver The Adventures of Babe Ruth Harry the Hat The Adventures of Babe Ruth Sweet William The Adventures of Babe Ruth Chick Foster The Adventures of Babe Ruth The Adventures of Babe Ruth Bobby Lee The Adventures of Babe Ruth There are no bad kids Boston Blackie Baseball Player Murder Boston Blackie Baseball and Gambling Columbia Workshop The Day Baseball Died Ellery Queen The World Series Crime Fibber McGee and Molly Fireball McGee Baseball Pro Fibber McGee and Molly Baseball Cologne Fred Allen Scalping Baseball Tickets The Great Gildersleeve Baseball Season Begins Ball Nine Take Your Base Information Please Moe Berg Information Please Moe Berg Information Please Moe Berg Jack Benny Ronald Coleman Leo Durocher Jack Benny At The Baseball Game The Joe Dimaggio Show The Joe Dimaggio Show The Life of Riley Juniors Baseball Univorm My Favorite Husband Our Miss Brooks Baseball GameTeam Uniforms Ozzie and Harriett Baseball Manager Radio Theater The Baseball Announcer The Saint Baseball Murder ================= To: Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] HOF? Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:09:25 -0500 From: "Bob Donaldson" 1. Hodges. Probably not, a very good player but not exactly HOF material. Looking at the BB Encyclopedia, he never once led his league in any offensive category. I don't buy the argument that one excellent year of managing should get him in either. 2. Maris, no. Previous posts have spelled this out better than I could, but he was only one of the top players in the game for a few years. 3. Rose, no. What he did was despicable and he shouldn't even be considered until he comes clean. 4. Jackson, no. He conspired to throw a World Series. Check out his testimony to the grand jury. ================= To: Subject: Re: The Hall of Fame Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:21:15 -0500 From: "Chuck Paris" For those of you who have never been, the Hall is much more than the room with the plaques !! Pete Rose is prominently featureds throughout the exhibits even though he is banned from election as a HOFer. If he is guilty of off the field shenanigans (and I'm sure he is) and if off the field activity is a worthy consideration (I'd consider it very lightly in relation to on the field activity myself), then his penalty is actually less than you might think. It's not like his career has been wiped from the history books or the Hall completely. Just my two cents, ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 00:12:06 +0800 Subject: HOFers From: " john harrell" In trying to resolve the issue of Hodges or Maris for the HOF, I thought of their contemporaries and the standards of the era in which they played and found this. 1. Hodges drove in 100 runs for 7 consecutive seasons and hit 30 or more homers 7 times. He was consistently in the top five in homers, RBI, slugging, and total bases through 1956. 2. His closest competition from exclusive 1st basemen was Big Klu, who put up some spectacular numbers but not for as long as Hodges. 3. Musial's numbers were higher overall but he was not exclusively a 1st baseman until late in his career. 4. Hodges 370 homers and 1200+ RBI put him ahead of any other 1st baseman of the 50's. 5. He was a genuinely nice guy and a great ambassador for the game. Because of his overall contribution to the game I feel Hodges is a viable candidate for the Hall. 1. By most of the standards that I applied to Hodges, Maris comes up short, sometimes far short. 2. While the back-to-back MVP's are impressive, the HOF does demand accomplishment over a substantial period of time. 3. Looking at the other back-to-back MVP non-HOFer, Murphy sustained excellence over a full decade and,in my opinion, was one of the clearly dominant players of his era, much more so than Maris. While noteworthy, I don't feel Maris's career accomplishments warrant HOF election. As for Jackson and Rose, they broke the cardinal rule of baseball. In Jackson's defense, you could argue that in his era, gambling on games was not uncommon among players and two of the greatest members of the HOF were undoubtedly guilty of fixing games (Cobb and Speaker). Rose has no such defense. My two cents worth. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 00:21:19 +0800 Subject: Books for the island From: " john harrell" My reading selections for the deserted island would be: 1. the latest edition of Total Baseball 2. Cobb: A Biography by Al Stump 3. A Whole Different Ball Game by Marvin Miller Alternate selection: America's Pastime by Donald Honig ================= Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:02:04 EST Subject: My question is more a Hall of "Shame" not Fame To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com hello- this is Linda- if i could ask the group any question this is it- Go back and look at your fliers for baseball card shows (i save mine) to help you answer this question- my question - What sports figure has charged the most for his in person autograph at a baseball show- i have fliers going back to 1989 advertising shows and the winner is basketball player Bill Russell- At the Southern California Sports Card & Collectables Expo Fall 2000 at Hollywood Park Convention Center which i attended --- his fees were as follows- $179 sm.flat, $239 lg. flat, $339 Ball/Art, $479 Jersey Equipment-- He may not have been the best basketball player but i am certain he is the SMARTEST- Bill Russell during his playing days and long after consistently refused to sign any autographs- I am sure this was a carefully planned strategy on his part carried out over decades to increase the demand for his autograph to the point where people who wanted his autograph would pay just about anything for it-Create enough demand and you can have the biggest if not the last laugh going to the bank at the expense of the fans--- i have a suggestion for the black activists demanding "reparations" -- tell them to collect the money from the autograph fees Bill Russell charges! ================= Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 03:53:30 EST Subject: A good article to help fuel some debates!! To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Glk@aol.com I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!! I read this article from the USA Today web site and thought I would share it with you. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2001-11-21/2001-11-21-cover.htm ================= Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:33:53 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Post Thanksgiving Thanks From: Originaleek@webtv.net A grateful thank-you to my neighbor to the north, Chuck Paris for a foursome of 1970 Tigers including 2 of my all time favorites Cash & McAuliffe (both batted from the proper side of the plate ya know.) The invite to get together sometime was as welcome as the cardboard. Thanks Chuck, let me know if you're in the Grand Blanc area. And from the south comes my new oldest Tiger card and first 50 Bowman, and what a beaut it is too. A big Thanks to Lorin Anderson for another southpaw, Ted Gray. I continue to be amazed at the number of hits to my pre-1980 wantlist since I joined OBC. Suppose there's a connection? My webtv is telling me that the Wings will be coming on in 30 seconds, later. ================= Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:47:34 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Little Help--Pre War question From: Neal Thomas Hi guys- I bought a few pre-war cards off this guy, and came up with a card that I need som help identifying. Here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? It's too small for a T205 or T206, and doesn't seem to look like a cut piece of T202. ANy help? Thanks, Neal (pre-war novice at best!) ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:01:45 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com Subject: incoming thanks *AND many availables* From: Jerry Coker Sorry for the cross post, but I have some availables listed at the end of this email. Thanks to: 'Bama' - for (3) higher # hits to my 70 set. Thank you Bama...much Lynn Miller - for a thoughtful Christmas card and letter, with a 52 Topps Bob Elliot (Boston Brave) slipped inside. Thank you Lynn! I don't think I can add much more than everyone else has already related about Lynn, but I will try :) I joined OBC not long after Lynn joined, made my first big OBC trade with Lynn, got my lists hammered by Lynn while I tried desperately to keep up with his relentless packages (as I believe everyone else did ;), and shared Braves stories with Lynn, as we are both big Braves fans (and Aaron fans)! So, I really felt Lynn's presence in ths group (and still do) Miss you Lynn! So thank you 'Bama', thank you Lynn, and thanks OBC!!! Below are the availables. I will send first to those I owe, but I owe so many people, plus, some cards often go unclaimed, thus don't be shy :) 1958 - 469 1959 - 389 1961 - 5 13 31 39 46 54 55 60 69 72 73 74 82 195 1962 - 78 1964 - 111 1966 - 2 3 5 6 8 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 20 21 24 25 26 29 31 32 34 35 37 38 39 40 41 42 45 46 47 48 49 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 60 61 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 71 73 74 77 78 79 81 82 83 85 87 88 89 90 93 95 96 97 98 102 103 105 107 108 109 111 112 114 115 116 118 119 121 123 128 129 130 131 133 134 135 136 138 140 141 142 143 145 146 147 148 149 152 154 158 159 161 162 164 165 166 168 169 170 171 173 174 175 178 180 182 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 197 204 207 211 213 228 231 235 236 237 240 242 243 244 248 252 256 257 260 262 268 274 277 287 290 294 304 353 377 383 401 403 418 1967 - 1 15 17 18 19 24 29 32 38 42 46 47 51 52 56 59 61 62 66 67 75 76 77 80 81 87 89 94 95 101 102 104 109 122 134 138 141 144 152 157 161 164 195 196 197 199 206 207 208 209 214 218 229 248 253 256 271 275 277 279 281 288 327 347 370 372 384 405 424 1969 - 11 14 19 44 57 58 78 79 88 89 97 118 177 316 333 376 384 463 469 1970 - 3 4 6 7 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 23 27 28 29 30 32 34 35 39 40 41 42 43 44 46 49 51 52 53 55 59 60 62 63 70 71 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 83 84 86 90 94 98 99 101 106 108 109 110 111 112 114 1971 - 6 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 21 24 25 27 28 32 33 36 38 39 41 42 43 44 46 48 49 51 52 56 57 59 62 63 65 67 69 71 73 74 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 85 86 88 89 91 92 93 94 95 96 98 101 102 103 104 106 107 111 113 114 115 116 119 121 122 123 124 125 126 129 130 132 134 142 146 147148 151 153 1972 - 2 5 12 13 18 19 20 29 55 57 59 64 69 71 74 76 78 82 83 84 97 103 110 122 123 124 136 144 146 166 190 191 193 194 202 204 212 215 248 254 Jerry Coker Computer Network Support Career Services Center University of Georgia ================= Date: 24 Nov 2001 07:56:58 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for OBC-Ramblings Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the OBC-Ramblings group: Does Roger Maris belong in the Hall of Fame? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Email votes can NOT be added. o NO! o probably not o not sure o probably so o YES! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. ================= Date: 24 Nov 2001 08:17:45 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for OBC-Ramblings Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the OBC-Ramblings group: Does Pete Rose belong in the HOF? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. o YES! His off-field activities don't matter! o Yes, if he apologizes. o Yes, but only if he is exonerated. o Not sure o No, even if he apologizes. o NO! Even if he is exonerated I say NO! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. ================= Date: 24 Nov 2001 08:34:32 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for OBC-Ramblings Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the OBC-Ramblings group: Does Gil Hodges belong in the HOF? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. o NO! o probably not o not sure o probably so o YES! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 04:18:42 EST Subject: anybody heard of?? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: HMorgan707@aol.com Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving. We had some friends in last night to whom I showed my b-ball card collection. The young lady was very interested as she works for St. Mary's College in She claims that they have some records showing St. Mary's has some pictures of their ball teams as early as the 1850s. They are probably not photos as we know them. Anybody ever hear of St. Mary's College re. a baseball team back then? It was a few years before my time! ================= Date: 24 Nov 2001 09:20:12 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for OBC-Ramblings Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the OBC-Ramblings group: Which of these current A.L. teams is your least fav? Vote by Dec 6th, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. Pick up to 3 teams. o Yankees o Mariners o Blue Jays o Tigers o Royals o White Sox o A's o Rangers o Angels o Devil Rays o Red Sox o Twins o Indians o Orioles To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. ================= Date: 24 Nov 2001 09:56:04 -0000 From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for OBC-Ramblings Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the OBC-Ramblings group: Which of these current N.L. teams is your least fav? Vote by Dec 1st, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. Pick up to 4 this time. o Mets o Expos o Phillies o Reds o Cards o Braves o Pirates o Diamondbacks o Padres o Giants o Rockies o Marlins o Dodgers o Astros o Cubs o Brewers o I pick the Mets again! o I pick the Expos again! o Yankees :-P o Team with the most non-USA born players. o Team with the most blacks. o Any team with John Rocker. o Any team with Al Belle. o Any team with Ichiro. o Any team with Roberto Alomar. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 07:38:02 EST Subject: Re: Little Help--Pre War question To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:47:34, Neal Thomas <> Since none of the 'real' authorities on pre-war have answered yet, I'll give you my opinion. It does look like the end panel of a T202. There is a card in the set depicting Summers (Stanage - Crawford about to Smash One - Summers) and they're often found in pieces from 90 years of folding. The border on the front appears to have been white at one time and not gold, so I don't think it's a T205 either. The edges (especially on the back) look like they may have been separated. Of course, I could be completely wrong Ken M ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:51:46 EST Subject: I'm back online To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM Did you miss me? Yes I blew the computer up AGAIN! It seems like a long time but it was only about 10 days ago. I brought the dinosaur to the repair shop and after a week the dude says " Sir, It's really not worth putting the money into this old machine." If he thinks less than 3 years is old he should she the cardboard we collect. Cocky 18 year old kid. My wife had been noticing my recent irratibility and said "Go ahead and get a new one." Now I have one that actually says Pentium on it. I had to work last night so Carol went and picked it up. She left it for me to hook up.I finally got in at 2AM kissed the wife checked on the kids and then ran downstairs to hook it up. I'm now back on line and faced with 452 emails to get through.Of course I lost all my addresses and links so please be patient with me.I had many OBC incomings during my down time and as soon as I get organized and find my web page I'll get to them all. For now let me just say Thanks OBC and I hope everyone had a good holiday. Robert Pigeon ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:21:58 EST Subject: Summers end piece To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com Neal - I agree with Ken M's response to your question about the Hasson card. >>>Since none of the 'real' authorities on pre-war have answered yet, I'll give you my opinion. It does look like the end panel of a T202<<< The T-202 pics came in several varieties the same as the T-205's. Ken's identification is almost certainly correct. - Doug ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:22:41 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Summers end piece From: Neal Thomas Thanks to seven quick responses, it is a consensus that I have a T202 end piece. Thanks for the info, guys. No another non-sports question. I picked up another pre-war card since they were cheap, and it is my first boxing card--can anyone identify this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1029084887 ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: Traderdoug@aol.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Summers end piece Date: 11/24/2001 10:21am Neal - I agree with Ken M's response to your question about the Hasson card. >>>Since none of the 'real' authorities on pre-war have answered yet, I'll give you my opinion. It does look like the end panel of a T202<<< The T-202 pics came in several varieties the same as the T-205's. identification is almost certainly correct. - Doug ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- Need new boots for winter? Looking for a perfect gift for your shoe loving friends? Zappos.com is the perfect fit for all your shoe needs! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3wM6yD/QrSDAA/ySSFAA/QBiolB/TM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:36:26 EST Subject: skeds available To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Every time I see pocket schedules, I grab a few. The net effect of this is that I have little piles of schedules all over my den. If anyone wants some, here's what I have: 1998 Lowell Spinners (A - Red Sox) 2000 Pawtucket Red Sox (AAA - Red Sox) 2000 Boston Red Sox (w/Pedro on front) 2000 Boston Red Sox (w/Jimy Williams on front) 2000 Boston Red Sox second half home schedule (put out by USPS with Legends stamps on front) 2000 Baltimore Orioles (w/Cal on front) 2000 Aberdeen Arsenal (? league) 2001 New York Yankees 1999 Nashua Pride (Independent Atlantic League) 2000 Nashua Pride (w/ Butch Hobson on front) 2000-01 Boston Bruins 2001-2002 Manchester Monarchs (AHL) Happy Collecting! ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:19:57 EST Subject: are there 34G back design variations? To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: amcook93@aol.com I looked at the two 34 Goudeys Tim Newcomb sent me today. They have different back formats. #20 has a line across the top "No. 20 -- 1934 Series", while #33 has the card number and 1934 Series in smaller font in the top left corner and the player's name across the top on the back. Hmmm. Are these all available just one way? Does anyone have a different configuration for either of these two cards? ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:28:05 EST Subject: (no subject) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com Andy - from the look of my incomplete set, it appears that 1-24 use the first format, and 25 and up the second. - Doug >>>I looked at the two 34 Goudeys Tim Newcomb sent me today. They have different back formats. #20 has a line across the top "No. 20 -- 1934 Series", while #33 has the card number and 1934 Series in smaller font in the top left corner and the player's name across the top on the back. Hmmm. Are these all available just one way? Does anyone have a different configuration for either of these two cards? ================= Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:04:13 EST Subject: A real scare To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com I was high bidder a couple weeks ago in five beautiful mello-mints. You seldom see mello-mints in better than vg condition because they were frequently folded before they put them in with the gum. Well these are beauties, but I paid way more than I should have. Well the cards arrived Friday and was I surprised when I opened them up and found 1989 Fleers in beautiful screw downs. No stars, 5 commons. Where were my mello-mints? To say the least I was very upset and emailed the dealer immediately ..not expecting to hear anything until monday, if then. Well he emailed me back today and told me the mello mints were packed in between the fleers for safety. And sure enough they were. Best packing job I've ever seen. Prompt shipment, too. Wish he'd warned me. The dealer was comic-keys. Very impressive. - Doug ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:19:31 -0500 From: "galtemos" No. He just was not good enough, over a long period of time. > From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings > Date: Saturday, November 24, 2001 2:56 AM > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > OBC-Ramblings group: > Does Roger Maris belong in the Hall of Fame? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Email votes can NOT be added. > o NO! > o probably not > o not sure > o probably so > o YES! > To vote, please visit the following web page: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/polls > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > Thanks! > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:21:40 -0500 From: "galtemos" No. He has been officially declared ineligible. And I have no sympathy for him, because he is a very bad person, and has absolutely no class. > From: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] New poll for OBC-Ramblings > Date: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:17 AM > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > OBC-Ramblings group: > Does Pete Rose belong in the HOF? Vote by Dec 8th, 2001. Votes by email can NOT be added. > o YES! His off-field activities don't matter! > o Yes, if he apologizes. > o Yes, but only if he is exonerated. > o Not sure > o No, even if he apologizes. > o NO! Even if he is exonerated I say NO! > To vote, please visit the following web page: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OBC-Ramblings/polls > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > Thanks! > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: virginia members Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 02:23:28 From: "jeff sinclair" hey guys, this is almost hard to believe but such is the world we live in. my wife got a call from an elderly neighbor who lives on the street down from us today. it seems that she received a piece of our mail from an address in virginia. she described this package as being a flat, hard piece of mail with a bulge in it. my neighbor became suspicious and notified the post office that she suspected the letter of containing anthrax before notifying my wife. my guess is that the letter contained cardboard of some sort that now is under investigation by who knows who. i half expect the f.b.i. to be on my front porch at any minute but hope my mail will be in my hands on monday. i just know it was that 54 bowman of williams. in other news i too received the message about a shortage in membership dues being paid to date. and yes, i am among the guilty parties. i suggest that any of you who have not yet paid their dues get up from your computer, find the checkbook and an envelope, write the check, address the envelope, and try to remember to find the time to get it stamped and in the mail. i've managed to write the check and envelope. remembering to take it out the door on monday morning is another story. do you remember the feel of the candy store steps? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 02:58:45 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: 1912 T202 Hassan Triple Folder/ Dave Kingman From: keithsummers@webtv.net ================= Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 06:44:50 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: Yahoo IDs/Polls From: keithsummers@webtv.net ================= Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:21:39 PST To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Yahoo! Sports: MLB - Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles From: Yahoo! Sports Grant (grains@dccnet.com) has sent you a news article Personal message: An HOM type if ever there was one! Yahoo! Sports: MLB - Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20011124/ap-obit-belinsky.html
src="http://adserver.yahoo.com/a?f=27428587&p=news&l=N&c=hs&bg=ffffff" marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 hspace=0 vspace=0 width=470 height frameborder=0 scrolling=no> src="http://adserver.yahoo.com/a?f=27428587&p=news&l=N&c=hs&bg=ffffff" bgcolor="#ffffff" width=470 height> Yahoo! Sports: MLB - Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles
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Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles

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Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles
November 24, 2001

LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Former major league pitcher Bo Belinsky, known as much for his colorful personality as his baseball career, has died of an apparent heart attack at his home in Las Vegas.

He died Friday at 64.

The left-hander pitched a nine-strikeout, four-walk no-hitter as a rookie for the Los Angeles Angels against the Baltimore Orioles at Dodger Stadium in 1962, the first major league no-hitter on the West Coast.

But Belinsky gained as much notoriety for dating movie stars such as Mamie Van Doren, Ann-Margret, Tina Louise, Juliet Prowse and Connie Stevens.

Selected out of the Baltimore Orioles' system by the Angels in 1961 expansion draft, Belinsky won his first three decisions.

On May 5, 1962, the 25-year-old Belinsky had a live, riding fastball, a hard curve and baffling screwball, according to Bob ``Buck'' Rodgers, who caught the no-hitter.

Rodgers, who later managed the Milwaukee Brewers, Montreal Expos and Angels, said Belinsky had overpowering stuff on the night of the no-hitter.

``He could challenge anybody with that fastball,'' Rodgers, who managed the Milwaukee Brewers, Montreal Expos and Angels. ``He got the screwball over early, but the fastball set up everything.

``Even on the last out, it was a 3-1 fastball to Dave Nicholson and Bo threw him a fastball right down Broadway. He fouled out to third. When Bo was on, he had that electric kind of stuff.''

Shortly after the no-hitter, Belinsky became part of the Hollywood scene, developing a reputation as a pool-hustling, heavy-drinking playboy.

Belinsky had a much-publicized romance with Van Doren.

``We've had a love affair that's continued a long time,'' Van Doren told The Associated Press on Saturday. ``I lost someone that was a very special part of my life. This is very sad for me.

``Our life was a circus. We were engaged on April Fools Day and broke the engagement on Halloween. It just broke my heart, and his, too. It was a wild ride, but a lot of fun.''

Belinsky finished 10-11 his rookie season, his finest in the majors.

Belinsky was 28-51 with 476 strikeouts and an ERA of 4.10 in an eight-year career that included stints with the Angels, Philadelphia Phillies, Houston Astros, Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds.

``You know, I've probably gotten more mileage winning 28 games in the majors than most guys who've won 200,'' Belinsky told the Las Vegas Review-Journal last summer before the minor league Las Vegas 51s hosted ``Bo Belinsky Night.''

After retiring from baseball in 1970, Belinsky married and divorced Playboy Playmate centerfold Jo Collins. He also married and divorced paper heiress Janie Weyerhaeuser, with whom he had twin daughters.

Belinsky, who had bladder cancer, worked in customer relations for the Findlay Automotive Group for nearly 10 years. He was sober for the final 25 years of his life, was a born-again Christian and was active in his church, the Trinity Life Center.

Belinsky loved to rhapsodize about the old times, but developed a deep religious belief, which former Angels teammate Dean Chance said allowed him to accept his fate.

``Bo was a one-of-a-kind guy and there won't be another one like him,'' Chance, a Cy Young winner and close friend of Belinsky told the Review-Journal. ``He was full of cancer, his heart was bad and his hip was hurting him terribly at the end.

``He had slipped and fallen, and it was really tough on him. But he had made his peace with the Lord and he is probably better off today than he was last week. He's not suffering terribly any more.''

Belinsky was born in New York in 1936 and began hanging out in New Jersey pool halls at the age of 14.

Belinsky was estranged from his daughters for more than 20 years.

Funeral arrangements are pending, according to Davis Funeral Home in Las Vegas.

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updated at Sat Nov 24 19:22:18 2001 PT

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================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:49:25 +0800 Subject: 1934 Goudeys From: " john harrell" What Doug says is correct. 1-24 have the year at the top middle with lines and 25-96 have the date at the upper left corner. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 03:01:46 +0800 Subject: 1934 Canadian Goudeys From: " john harrell" About a year ago I speculated on Ramblings that the SCD and Beckett catalogs incorrectly listed the 1934 Canadian Goudey set with both all English and French/English back variations. I still have not run across an example of the all English back and I've contacted a number of Canadian dealers who confirm that they have never seen an all English back. Someone in OBC, last year, said they had an example of a 34 Can. Goudey with the all English back. Would that person please send me a scan of the card back. All 34 Can. Goudeys say "1934 series" across the top of the back although half the set (1-48) are the 1933 Goudey design while the other half (49-96) are the 1934 Goudey design. If such cards exist they must be among the scarcest issues of the prewar era. Thanks for any help. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 03:04:42 +0800 Subject: 1934 Canadian Goudeys From: " john harrell" About a year ago I speculated on Ramblings that the SCD and Beckett catalogs incorrectly listed the 1934 Canadian Goudey set with both all English and French/English back variations. I still have not run across an example of the all English back and I've contacted a number of Canadian dealers who confirm that they have never seen an all English back. Someone in OBC, last year, said they had an example of a 34 Can. Goudey with the all English back. Would that person please send me a scan of the card back. All 34 Can. Goudeys say "1934 series" across the top of the back although half the set (1-48) are the 1933 Goudey design while the other half (49-96) are the 1934 Goudey design. If such cards exist they must be among the scarcest issues of the prewar era. Thanks for any help. ================= To: , Subject: Overflowing FOOTBALL dupes box Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:26:25 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Is there anyone who'd like to start up (or complete) a football set from 1969 - 1980? I am sick of looking at my huge dupes box. ================= Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:49:47 -0500 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Fwd: OLD CIGAR CARD>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Dan Austin Can anyone ID this? >X-From_: leelee627@hotmail.com Thu Nov 22 13:35:23 2001 >X-Originating-IP: [141.139.110.162] >From: "L.L. Sherer" >Subject: OLD CIGAR CARD>>>>>>>>>>>> >Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:32:22 -0500 >X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1700 >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2001 21:35:04.0196 (UTC) >To: webmaster@oldbaseball.com >X-Loop-Detect: 1 >Dear Sirs, About three years ago I found this 2 7/8" by 4" by 3/32" thick >old cigar card. I have no idea what this is worth, but I would like to >sell it. If you could give me some idea, I would be very grateful...The >back of the card is plain...Thank You Sincerely Lee ================= Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:27:18 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1912 T202 Hassan Triple Folder/ Dave Kingman To: keithsummers@webtv.net, OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com ok..regarding Kingman... here's a story for you... A young radio reporter is covering the Mets v. Giants at Shea. Frank Robinson, Joe Morgan, Jason Thompson, Mookie Wilson, among others are very cordial answering questions. Then comes this exchange with the Met.. "hey Dave, can I ask you a couple of quick questions?" Kingman : "nope, that quick Another: A future reporter is at a game at Shea V. Cubs. Luck would have it, John Pacella would lose his cap 32 times that day and the future reporter would lose his car (yes I said CAR, as in stolen). Said Mets fan goes under the stands to the police station. In the runway, a youngster is there looking for autographs. The kid asks Ivan DeJesus and the guy was terrific to the kid. Kingman comes by and the kid asks him for an autograph. Kingman says "what the hell are you doing in here, you're not supposed to be in here!". Thank God that kid will remember DeJesus! I know it was said tongue in cheek, but as for Kingman, Thank God he didn't hit 500 HRs... BTW, in case you haven't figured it out, I was the young reporter and I DID have my car stolen from Shea :)... ================= To: "OBC Ramblings" Subject: Kingman Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:03:54 -0500 From: "John Collins" In light of the recent opinions that have been going around about Maris' HOF consideration (the consensus of which I now believe to be correct, by theway) Dave Kingman and his .236 lifetime average would not merit consideration EVEN IF he did have 500 homers. My $0.02. John C. Collins ================= Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:03:51 EST Subject: Question for the boys... To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: ChicoD1@aol.com I have been to every book store on Long Island, and I cannot find any kind of book or magazine that deals in non-sport cards. As you know, I collect batman, and am thinking of starting a beatles set. Does anyone know where the heck I can find a listing? I'd like to see what the Batman/Beatles cards are going for, as I walk into a show blind. HELP! I need some body....o/~ I've also been toying with a Goudey set, any suggestions? ================= To: "VCT" , Subject: sunday night availables Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:25:32 -0500 From: "John Collins" Gentlemen (& Linda): I have the following available: 1963 Topps #17 - Duren - exmt 1964 Topps #173 - Duren - nm 1972 Topps #465 - Hodges - ex 1973 Topps: #123 - Alomar - ex #180 - Jenkins - ex #193 - Fisk - ex and last but certainly not least........definitely NOT a Hall of Famer as recent discussions have proved.......but still a great guy (better than DaveKingman 1961 Topps #2, Roger Maris in solid ex condition. I will be happy to send these out "FCFS" except for the Maris, which I would prefer to work a trade out for beforehand. I would be looking for VG or better stars from my wantlist of comparable value. Will be checking the waiver wire soon, John C. Collins ================= Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:45:07 EST Subject: a little non-baseball help from the san fran. crowd To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Wite3@aol.com A little over a year ago, i met a girl at a friend's wedding. (peter, erik, and a few others might know the story) and she has become my best friend. for christmas she asked me if i might be going to berkely any time soon. she wants a t-shirt from a coffee shop in berkley (a long story involved here) but that is what she wants. I said i would try. So, do any of the San. Fran. guys ever get over to berekly? I know Rick is in D.C. but hopefully someone else can help. let me know and i will send you all the details on the shop and shirt. thanks- ================= To: grains@dccnet.com Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:48:53 -0800 Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Yahoo! Sports: MLB - Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles From: Peter M Iversen There was a big article on Bo in the LA TIMES sport section today - also many quotes from his buddy DEAN CHANCE (doesn't someone collect him...??) - I have an extra copy of the sports page if anyone wants it. On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:21:39 PST Yahoo! Sports Grant (grains@dccnet.com) has sent you a news article Personal message: An HOM type if ever there was one! Yahoo! Sports: MLB - Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20011124/ap-obit-belinsky.html Nov 25, 2001 TopNFLNBANHLMLBNCAA FootballNCAA HoopsGolfTennisNASCARWorld Soccermore Major League BaseballFront - Standings - Scoreboard - Stats - Teams - More MLB News Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles Jilted Anderson wants to be wanted Elster sued by flight attendant Report: Henry selling Marlins; team to remain in South Florida Selig term extension possible when owners meet Tuesday Bo Belinsky threw first no-hitter in Los Angeles November 24, 2001 LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Former major league pitcher Bo Belinsky, known as much for his colorful personality as his baseball career, has died of an apparent heart attack at his home in Las Vegas. He died Friday at 64. The left-hander pitched a nine-strikeout, four-walk no-hitter as a rookie for the Los Angeles Angels against the Baltimore Orioles at Dodger Stadium in 1962, the first major league no-hitter on the West Coast. But Belinsky gained as much notoriety for dating movie stars such as Mamie Van Doren, Ann-Margret, Tina Louise, Juliet Prowse and Connie Selected out of the Baltimore Orioles' system by the Angels in 1961 expansion draft, Belinsky won his first three decisions. On May 5, 1962, the 25-year-old Belinsky had a live, riding fastball, a hard curve and baffling screwball, according to Bob ``Buck'' Rodgers, who caught the no-hitter. Rodgers, who later managed the Milwaukee Brewers, Montreal Expos and Angels, said Belinsky had overpowering stuff on the night of the ``He could challenge anybody with that fastball,'' Rodgers, who managed the Milwaukee Brewers, Montreal Expos and Angels. ``He got the screwball over early, but the fastball set up everything. ``Even on the last out, it was a 3-1 fastball to Dave Nicholson and Bo threw him a fastball right down Broadway. He fouled out to third. When Bo was on, he had that electric kind of stuff.'' Shortly after the no-hitter, Belinsky became part of the Hollywood scene, developing a reputation as a pool-hustling, heavy-drinking playboy. Belinsky had a much-publicized romance with Van Doren. ``We've had a love affair that's continued a long time,'' Van Doren told The Associated Press on Saturday. ``I lost someone that was a very special part of my life. This is very sad for me. ``Our life was a circus. We were engaged on April Fools Day and broke the engagement on Halloween. It just broke my heart, and his, too. It was a wild ride, but a lot of fun.'' Belinsky finished 10-11 his rookie season, his finest in the majors. Belinsky was 28-51 with 476 strikeouts and an ERA of 4.10 in an eight-year career that included stints with the Angels, Philadelphia Phillies, Houston Astros, Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds. ``You know, I've probably gotten more mileage winning 28 games in the majors than most guys who've won 200,'' Belinsky told the Las Vegas Review-Journal last summer before the minor league Las Vegas 51s hosted ``Bo Belinsky Night.'' After retiring from baseball in 1970, Belinsky married and divorced Playboy Playmate centerfold Jo Collins. He also married and divorced paper heiress Janie Weyerhaeuser, with whom he had twin daughters. Belinsky, who had bladder cancer, worked in customer relations for the Findlay Automotive Group for nearly 10 years. He was sober for the final 25 years of his life, was a born-again Christian and was active in his church, the Trinity Life Center. Belinsky loved to rhapsodize about the old times, but developed a deep religious belief, which former Angels teammate Dean Chance said allowed him to accept his fate. ``Bo was a one-of-a-kind guy and there won't be another one like him,'' Chance, a Cy Young winner and close friend of Belinsky told the Review-Journal. ``He was full of cancer, his heart was bad and his hip was hurting him terribly at the end. ``He had slipped and fallen, and it was really tough on him. But he had made his peace with the Lord and he is probably better off today than he was last week. He's not suffering terribly any more.'' Belinsky was born in New York in 1936 and began hanging out in New Jersey pool halls at the age of 14. Belinsky was estranged from his daughters for more than 20 years. Funeral arrangements are pending, according to Davis Funeral Home in Las Email this story - (View most popular) updated at Sat Nov 24 19:22:18 2001 PT Copyright © 2001 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Help Copyright © 2001 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: , "Dan Austin" Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Fwd: OLD CIGAR CARD>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:50:58 -0500 From: "galtemos" Hi Dan, That is not a "card," in the usual sense. It is the lid from a cigar box. I have a few cigar box labels, and I know that collecting them is a separate hobby in its own right. There are very few baseball-related labels. The only one I have is Harry Pulliam, who was president of the National League in 1908, at the time of the Merkle Bonehead play, and killed himself as a result. A scan of this label is attached. I do not know of anyone who collects complete cigar boxes, or even cigar box lids. But any Honus (or Hans) Wagner item has got to be worth something. My suggestion would be either to put it up for auction on ebay, or contact Barry Sloate in Brooklyn. > From: Dan Austin > To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Fwd: OLD CIGAR CARD>>>>>>>>>>>> > Date: Sunday, November 25, 2001 4:49 PM Can anyone ID this? >X-From_: leelee627@hotmail.com Thu Nov 22 13:35:23 2001 >X-Originating-IP: [141.139.110.162] >From: "L.L. Sherer" >Subject: OLD CIGAR CARD>>>>>>>>>>>> >Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:32:22 -0500 >X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1700 >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2001 21:35:04.0196 (UTC) >To: webmaster@oldbaseball.com >X-Loop-Detect: 1 >Dear Sirs, About three years ago I found this 2 7/8" by 4" by 3/32" thick >old cigar card. I have no idea what this is worth, but I would like to >sell it. If you could give me some idea, I would be very grateful...The >back of the card is plain...Thank You Sincerely Lee ================= To: , , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1912 T202 Hassan Triple Folder/ Dave Kingman Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:59:15 -0500 From: "galtemos" Based on what I have heard, those stories are typical of Dave Kingman. However, he was always very polite and cordial for interviews with Ralph Kiner. And he was certainly no dummy. In his last year, 1986, he hit 35 home runs and batted .210. The following year, no one wanted him. I think that, if he wants to go to the Hall of Fame, he should stand in line, with Pete Rose, and buy a ticket. > From: ChicoD1@aol.com > To: keithsummers@webtv.net; OBC-RAMBLINGS@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] 1912 T202 Hassan Triple Folder/ Dave Kingman > Date: Sunday, November 25, 2001 5:27 PM ok..regarding Kingman... here's a story for you... A young radio reporter is covering the Mets v. Giants at Shea. Frank Robinson, Joe Morgan, Jason Thompson, Mookie Wilson, among others are very cordial answering questions. Then comes this exchange with the Met.. "hey Dave, can I ask you a couple of quick questions?" Kingman : "nope, that Another: A future reporter is at a game at Shea V. Cubs. Luck would have it, John Pacella would lose his cap 32 times that day and the future would lose his car (yes I said CAR, as in stolen). Said Mets fan goes the stands to the police station. In the runway, a youngster is there looking for autographs. The kid asks Ivan DeJesus and the guy was terrific to the kid. Kingman comes by and the kid asks him for an autograph. says "what the hell are you doing in here, you're not supposed to be in here!". Thank God that kid will remember DeJesus! I know it was said in cheek, but as for Kingman, Thank God he didn't hit 500 HRs... BTW, in case you haven't figured it out, I was the young reporter and I DID have my car stolen from Shea :)... ================= Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:26:38 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: Kingman/ Kaline/ Murphy From: keithsummers@webtv.net ================= To: Subject: Lynn Miller Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:40:04 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Is anyone game for an OBC-Style assault on Mr. Miller? I thought if we got even half the group to send him a card, it would make his day, and maybe even season, to know he hasn't been forgotten. New kids too! I have tried to get Lynn to send me his wantlist, and he's being a bit on the coy side. Just like him. My thought was that if a bunch of us sent even one card each, he'd be thrilled. We don't have a wantlist to work on, but we happen to know he was partial to the '50's and into the '60's. I'm thinking that if we were all to post at once, it could be a fairly impressive load for him to pick up. I suggest if this is going to happen, we look at next Monday for post day, that will give everyone lots of time to pick something, tuck it in a Season's Greeting card, and have it ready to go. If we are game, I can send out a reminder on the weekend. What do you guys ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:47:25 -0900 From: "TnB Williams" I am all for it. Lynn is a great person who did wonders in OBC. I'm in. Tom W ----- Original Message ----- From: Grant Rainsley To: Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller > Is anyone game for an OBC-Style assault on Mr. Miller? I thought if we got > even half the group to send him a card, it would make his day, and maybe > even season, to know he hasn't been forgotten. New kids too! > I have tried to get Lynn to send me his wantlist, and he's being a bit on > the coy side. Just like him. My thought was that if a bunch of us sent > one card each, he'd be thrilled. We don't have a wantlist to work on, but > happen to know he was partial to the '50's and into the '60's. I'm > that if we were all to post at once, it could be a fairly impressive load > for him to pick up. I suggest if this is going to happen, we look at next > Monday for post day, that will give everyone lots of time to pick > tuck it in a Season's Greeting card, and have it ready to go. > If we are game, I can send out a reminder on the weekend. What do you guys > think? > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > OBC-Ramblings-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: "VCT" , Subject: ebay warning Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:24:20 -0500 From: "John Collins" Just wanted to take a minute to warn all of you not to buy from an ebay seller that goes by the name "CardsoneVintage" or "JCRCARDS." I recently spent about $150 on one of the last major cards I needed for one of my sets. Thought the seller was a midsize guy, turns out they are a large corporation with several ebay names, the "JCRCARDS" one having negative feedback in the 90's. The name I bought from "CardsoneVintage," had no negatives when I won the card, but now has 6. Found a phone number from their website and called them up, where it took a somewhat confused clerk about 15 minutes to inform me that "it looks like" my card should have shipped by now. Needless to say the card should have been here by now and I don't have it. Hoping by some chance to get it later this week, but if not, hopefully I can get a refund. Beware of the Big Boys !! Makes you realize how safe and beneficial our trading groups are. Have a good one, John C. Collins ================= To: Subject: Fw: Very Old cards Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:56:16 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Can anybody help this fellow out? I don't recognize these cards of his. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick Prystasz To: apspr@email.msn.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: Very Old cards I am a card collector aswell and I'm wondering if you could give me any information that would help me determine the value and any other information about these cards. I attached a file with a couple of pictures for you to look at! ( Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb) My gradfather passed away and these cards were handed down to me. I am very excited about these cards and any info youcould give would be great! These cards were printed somewhere between 1918- 1926. I am a collector and have no intrest in selling these. I'm just trying to do as mush research as possible. Thanks in advance for any help you may give. ================= Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:21:52 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] a little non-baseball help from the san fran. crowd To: Wite3@aol.com, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Sweendoger@aol.com I've got a Giants shirt that I use to check the oil level on my truck if your In a message dated 11/25/01 4:45:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, Wite3@aol.com > Subj: [OBC-Ramblings] a little non-baseball help from the san fran. crowd > Date: 11/25/01 4:45:48 PM Pacific Standard Time > From: Wite3@aol.com > To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com > A little over a year ago, i met a girl at a friend's wedding. (peter, erik, > and a few others might know the story) and she has become my best friend. > for > christmas she asked me if i might be going to berkely any time soon. she > wants a t-shirt from a coffee shop in berkley (a long story involved here) > but that is what she wants. I said i would try. > So, do any of the San. Fran. guys ever get over to berekly? I know Rick is > in > D.C. but hopefully someone else can help. let me know and i will send you > all > the details on the shop and shirt. thanks- > joshua ================= Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:55:08 EST Subject: Fort Washington Show To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: RWP521@AOL.COM OK guys. I have the baby-sitter for the girls and made the hotel reservation. Carol and I will be leaving early Saturday to try and make it down by noon. I don't want to miss everybody again so let me know if there is a plan to meet. I'm staying at the Holiday Inn in Ft. Washington. I'll be the one with the Red Sox jacket. How many Sox fans can there be in Philly? LMK who's going so I can pack up my dupes box accordingly. Hope to meet some of you. ================= Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:30:58 EST Subject: Cardsone vintage To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com I just bought some cards ..nothing specual ..from CardsoneVintage. When they arrived one was missing, along with a form letter saying they had sold the card twice. They did refund my money, and sent a $1 discount on my next order (whooopie). Sounds like trouble to me. - Doug ================= Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:12:34 -0500 (EST) To: alcattle@hotmail.com (Al Cummings), OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Canadian influence From: Originaleek@webtv.net No redemption is needed, the opportunity to get another jab at Grant was worth it. However, we both know he will not take this sitting down, so be on the alert as am I. ================= To: "'Grant Rainsley'" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:05:37 -0500 From: "Hitzeman, Steven A." Sounds like a great idea -----Original Message----- From: Grant Rainsley [mailto:grains@dccnet.com] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 7:40 PM To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Is anyone game for an OBC-Style assault on Mr. Miller? I thought if we got even half the group to send him a card, it would make his day, and maybe even season, to know he hasn't been forgotten. New kids too! I have tried to get Lynn to send me his wantlist, and he's being a bit on the coy side. Just like him. My thought was that if a bunch of us sent even one card each, he'd be thrilled. We don't have a wantlist to work on, but we happen to know he was partial to the '50's and into the '60's. I'm thinking that if we were all to post at once, it could be a fairly impressive load for him to pick up. I suggest if this is going to happen, we look at next Monday for post day, that will give everyone lots of time to pick something, tuck it in a Season's Greeting card, and have it ready to go. If we are game, I can send out a reminder on the weekend. What do you guys To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:59:56 EST Subject: football To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com, vct@yahoogroups.com From: smartalecx@aol.com hi all: hope everyone had a nice holiday. as long as my profile says i am trying to complete my 64-68 football card sets, i thought i would at least have the wantlist on my webpage. so it can now be viewed at: http://gmcards.homestead.com/mywebpage.html tnx, gm ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:39:41 -0500 From: "Robert Reed" Since we can't get a copy of his wantlist we could always do an eBay search for bubble-head. Set INCLUDE COMPLETED ITEMS to YES and make sure EVEN IF NOT HIGH BIDDER is set to yes. Then we could send him the cards he bid on but didn't win. Here's a link that may or may not work: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&userid=bubble-head&completed=1&sort=3&all=1&rows0 Sound like a plan? >From: "Hitzeman, Steven A." >To: "'Grant Rainsley'" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:05:37 -0500 >Sounds like a great idea >-----Original Message----- >From: Grant Rainsley [mailto:grains@dccnet.com] >Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 7:40 PM >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller >Is anyone game for an OBC-Style assault on Mr. Miller? I thought if we got >even half the group to send him a card, it would make his day, and maybe >even season, to know he hasn't been forgotten. New kids too! >I have tried to get Lynn to send me his wantlist, and he's being a bit on >the coy side. Just like him. My thought was that if a bunch of us sent even >one card each, he'd be thrilled. We don't have a wantlist to work on, but >happen to know he was partial to the '50's and into the '60's. I'm >that if we were all to post at once, it could be a fairly impressive load >for him to pick up. I suggest if this is going to happen, we look at next >Monday for post day, that will give everyone lots of time to pick >tuck it in a Season's Greeting card, and have it ready to go. >If we are game, I can send out a reminder on the weekend. What do you guys >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:41:53 -0800 From: Steve Carter If you click on the "About Me" page for him it has a short wantlist there. Crafty folk, we are. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Reed [mailto:boreed@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:40 AM To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Since we can't get a copy of his wantlist we could always do an eBay search for bubble-head. Set INCLUDE COMPLETED ITEMS to YES and make sure EVEN IF NOT HIGH BIDDER is set to yes. Then we could send him the cards he bid on but didn't win. Here's a link that may or may not work: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBidItems&useri Sound like a plan? >From: "Hitzeman, Steven A." >To: "'Grant Rainsley'" , OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:05:37 -0500 >Sounds like a great idea >-----Original Message----- >From: Grant Rainsley [mailto:grains@dccnet.com] >Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 7:40 PM >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller >Is anyone game for an OBC-Style assault on Mr. Miller? I thought if we got >even half the group to send him a card, it would make his day, and maybe >even season, to know he hasn't been forgotten. New kids too! >I have tried to get Lynn to send me his wantlist, and he's being a bit on >the coy side. Just like him. My thought was that if a bunch of us sent even >one card each, he'd be thrilled. We don't have a wantlist to work on, but >happen to know he was partial to the '50's and into the '60's. I'm >that if we were all to post at once, it could be a fairly impressive load >for him to pick up. I suggest if this is going to happen, we look at next >Monday for post day, that will give everyone lots of time to pick >tuck it in a Season's Greeting card, and have it ready to go. >If we are game, I can send out a reminder on the weekend. What do you guys >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Fort Washington Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:39:39 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" Looks like I am available to go to the show. Who else is going? I planon going up Friday and coming back Saturday. Maybe if there is an OBC swap Saturday night, I will stay (and crash on the floor in my sleeping bag). If you are going, let me know so I can pull some cards for you in advance of the show. ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Polls Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:17:08 -0800 From: "John Collins" Since I am the troublemaker who started all of the debate on Maris, Hodges, Jackson, and Rose, I figured I would try to wrap things up a bit now that most of us are done rambling about them. Thanks to whoever tried to set up the formal poll through Yahoogroups, unfortunately my e-mail account is not linked and I am too lazy to learn how to do it. Briefly, here is a informal synopsis of the results: Maris: A resounding no for the HOF. Initially Linda and myself were the only yes votes. And sorry Linda, but I will have to admit that the rest of the group convinced me otherwise. The kicker was the comparison to the outfielder that most closely resembled Maris career stat-wise, and that was Bob Allison. As many of you pointed out, an excellent HOM candidate, but pretty safe to say nobody will be badgering the Veterans Committee about Allison's election anytime soon. The group was pretty consistent in their opinions that Maris will long be remembered for the original home run race and being a great guy without being enshrined in Cooperstown. Hodges: I didn't keep formal count, but this one seemed to be split down the middle. Many of you felt that he should be in the Hall based on career homers and RBI's, as well as being constantly among the top performers in NL batting stats over the peak years of his career. His leadership of the Mets to the '69 WS Championship also carried more favor with most of you that I would have thought. But Hodges never was the top man in any single category, never won an MVP award, had a lifetime BA in the low .270's and in the end about half of you seemed to think he was still below Shoeless Joe: I still saw a couple of no votes, but I believe the overall consensus was that he should be in the Hall. 3rd highest lifetime batting average in history, generally regarded as one of the best hitters of all time, and who knows what his lifetime numbers would have been had he been allowed to play after the 1920 season. Also it should be pointed out that he admitted what he did, and he felt awful about it afterwards as it pretty much ruined his life (unlike the next person on the discussion list) and as many of you said, come on, it has been 80 years already. Let Joe in the Hall. Rose: This one also was a resounding no. There is no denying Rose's greatness as a ballplayer, but as the writer Thomas Boswell pointed out "we want our heroes to be good at life too." Maybe that is asking too much. But Rose has apparently left the same impression on OBC that he has the rest of the world: he is haughty, arrogant, believes he did nothing wrong, and is determined not to give an inch on any of his beliefs. The evidence against him is overwhelming, and I'm sure if he admitted what he did, many of us would forgive him like the rest of the world would. But in addition to being a compulsive gambler and womanizer, Rose is also a compulsive liar.....so the day when he admits anything may still be far off. Until that day, I like Linda's suggestion best...if he somehow gets in, hang his plaque in the men's room. Thanks for all of your input on the poll. Hope nobody minded me starting it. As a new guy, I can tell you that I found it very interesting. And I am also finding OBC to be wonderful. ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: what's going on with me Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:02:58 -0500 From: "Steve Rittenberg" By now I had hoped to tell everyone that I found a temporary job as a USAIDcontractor in Kosovo. At best, that opportunity is on hold. Seems they think someone in that part of the world can do the job much cheaper than I could. May yet get to go to Botswana early next year. There's little else going on in my job search. Since I left my company nearly 10 months ago, I've been living on savings and selling off parts of mycollection I had little interest in. Its all been very stressful. Oneway I cope with stress is to buy more cards. That's not a smart way to cope with financial stress, is it? Just being in OBC fuels my craving for cards, so I took a few months off after the National in July. I've kind of jumped back in. I need to end the isolation but figure out how to spendsanely. I didn't lose my head at the Fort Washington show in September or the Wilmington show in November. As long as I remember not to buy cards for others (or to just stick in my dupes box), I should be ok. I know my list is tough. Eventually I will make a list of the nastiest cards in my sets that can use upgrading. If anyone has non-sports cards, let me know. I've expanded way beyond baseball just so that I'd have something to look for on ebay and at shows. Its not all bad -- I can get cards from 1910 for $1. Try that with T206s! I've also expanded into football / hockey / basketball and stuff from 80s & 90s. I'm also starting the 1970 Kelloggs set. Knowing me, it won't be long before I work onALL the Kelloggs sets. But I have never been a cereal eater so my "appetite" for Kelloggs isn't huge. (no pun intended). I wish I could find a job. It won't solve all my problems but I feel likeit would. If anyone knows about an opportunity for an economist and/or someone with a combination of great analytical, programming and language skills, let me know. The past two months I haven't really even been looking or answering any ads. I hope some switch inside me will turn on and I will at least start actively looking again. Well, I hope to see some of you at Fort Washington. Someday I hope to be finished collecting and then hire myself out as a "card sleuth". I'd go to shows with YOUR list and find your cards. I suppose I could start that now. Anyone know what I should charge for my services? Haha. Thanks for listening. ================= To: Subject: Lynn Miller Time Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:20:24 -0800 From: "Grant Rainsley" Judging by the number of responses I have received to the suggestion of an OBC-style assault on Lynn, I think it is safe to say it's a go! The message was clear, it was a resounding YES! We'll go with next Monday for shipping cards out, and I'll drop a reminder on the weekend. There were a couple of clues about what he likes, but knowing Lynn, the cards won't make the impression, the assault will, and the fact is he remains an OBC treasure. At least we can help him stock up his dupes box. Here is Lynn's address: Lynn Miller PSC517 Box RS FPO AP ================= Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:09:50 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Digest Number 203 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Jrhatchjr@aol.com Tim and all, This gentleman also e-mailed me. Here's the response I sent to him... Hi Mick, Thanks for sharing your cards with me! Although I'm no expert, I believe what you have is an issue known as V122, circa 1930. The "V122" is a nomenclature known in card collecting circles assigned many years ago in the American Card Catalog. The "V" designates a Canadian issue, although I do not know what entity manufactured these. The "122" is simply a numerical designation assigned to each card set. My reference point is a matching photo of the Ruth card in a book called "The American Guide to Premium Baseball Cards" published more than 20 years ago! As for value, I really haven't a clue. These cards are pretty scarce and yours seem to be in great shape. My very rough guess is that they would be valued at least in the hundreds of dollars each. To get a better idea of value, you could find a recent copy of "The Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards" put out by Krause Publications. The 2001 edition just came out and can be found at a local bookstore. My 1995 edition doesn't even list these Congratulations on your cards! Jim Hatch In a message dated 11/27/01 7:29:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:56:16 -0600 > From: "tim newcomb" > Subject: Fw: Very Old cards > Can anybody help this fellow out? I don't recognize these cards of his. > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mick Prystasz > To: apspr@email.msn.com > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 6:49 PM > Subject: Very Old cards > Hello, > I am a card collector aswell and I'm wondering if you could give me any > information that would help me determine the value and any other > information about these cards. I attached a file with a couple of pictures > for you to look at! ( Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb) My gradfather passed away and > these cards were handed down to me. I am very excited about these cards and > any info you could give would be great! These cards were printed somewhere > between 1918 - 1926. I am a collector and have no intrest in selling these. > I'm just trying to do as mush research as possible. > Thanks in advance for any help you may give. > Mick ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:44:34 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Lynn Miller's wantlist from his ebay page From: yukchow@yahoo.com I copied Lynn's wantlist from his ebay "About Me" page. It's a pretty tough list but at least provides a reference. My Interests I collect Topps regular series only baseball cards. If you really want to hook up with a great group of vintage card collectors go to http://www.oldbaseball.com Here's the cards I am looking for. I really prefer them off-grade, so if you want to work a deal, please contact me. Lynn Miller PSC 517 Box RS FPO AP 96517-1000 (Regular U.S. Postage for this) lynnm@piol.net Topps Wantlist 1952 - 181 188 272 289 311 317 318 320 322 324 326 329 330 331 332 333 337 338 339 340 341 344 346 348 350 352 353 354 356 359 362 363 370 375 376 378 380 381 382 384 385 386 390 391 392 393 394 395 397 398 399 401 402 403 404 405 1953 - 027 086 1954 - 239 1955 - 166 187 193 198 1957 - 302 328 407 CL2/3 CL3/4 CL4/5 NNO5 NNO6 NNO7 NNO8 NNO9 1958 - 001 047 1959 - 514 564 1960 - 350 563 1961 - 344 402 405 425 472 482 524 528 531 535 545 547 548 551 553 562 563 565 566 568 570 572 574 576 578 579 580 581 582 585 1962 - 425 471 513 552 575 591 592 593 594 598 1963 - 380 394 398 412 415 440 446 500 507 525 537 553 556 1964 - 125 440 541 1966 - 469 526 540 543 545 547 552 559 566 570 578 589 590 1967 - 535 536 540 542 546 552 553 558 560 567 568 569 572 574 575 576 580 581 583 585 586 587 588 590 592 594 598 600 603 605 606 609 ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:09:48 EST Subject: V-122 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com The cards the gentlemanwas trying to identify are 1924 Willards chocolates. I emailed him also. Very nice. I wish I had the Cobb ..i've only seen one before. - Doug ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:22:40 EST Subject: Lynn Miller To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: Traderdoug@aol.com I'm with Al Cummings on this one. I don;t think Lynn would want us to bombard him with cards. He just did a very nice thing. Let it be. If you have something from his short wantlist it would be fine to send it, but dont bombard him with stuff. Lynn left OBC for a very good reason. And I think you can assume those cards Lynn has been bidding on are the ones he sent to us. - Doug ================= To: Subject: Lynn Miller Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:59:20 -0800 From: "Dave Fallen" I've been torn on the issue of bombarding Lynn Miller with cards next Monday. After a lot of self-debate, I have to come to agreement with Big Al andDoug. No one likes and is grateful to Lynn Miller than I. I would just LOVE to do something really nice for him, but I think unsolicited cardboard isn't it. When Lynn had a want list, you may remember that he clearly stated he did not want any cards sent to him that were not on his list. He was serious. Lynn and I had many long email conversations, and I remember talking to him specifically on this point. He really felt such cardboard was a nuisance, and much preferred that we sent them to folks who wanted them. To sendhim cards that he would have to, in turn, send to someone else was to him a sort of imposition. Instead, I would suggest that each of us who wish to remember Lynn, send him a Christmas card and perhaps a personal note expressing our appreciation of At least, that's what I am going to do. -Dave Fallen ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:19:40 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" I think Dave is right-- if you have something from Lynn's short wantlist, send it to him-- otherwise, a card and nice message is the thing to do-- hislife is complicated enough without a hundred envelopes of unwanted cardboard thumping down on his doorstep. Best, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Fallen To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:59 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller I've been torn on the issue of bombarding Lynn Miller with cards next Monday. After a lot of self-debate, I have to come to agreement with Big Al and No one likes and is grateful to Lynn Miller than I. I would just LOVE todo something really nice for him, but I think unsolicited cardboard isn't it. When Lynn had a want list, you may remember that he clearly stated he did not want any cards sent to him that were not on his list. He was serious. Lynn and I had many long email conversations, and I remember talking to him specifically on this point. He really felt such cardboard was a nuisance, and much preferred that we sent them to folks who wanted them. To send him cards that he would have to, in turn, send to someone else was to him a sort of imposition. Instead, I would suggest that each of us who wish to remember Lynn, send him a Christmas card and perhaps a personal note expressing our appreciation of him. At least, that's what I am going to do. -Dave Fallen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:03:30 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-RAMBLINGS@Yahoogroups.com Subject: Lynn Miller/Amazon From: keithsummers@webtv.net I'm with Al, Doug, Dave & Tim. BTW, I never heard a final tally on the amount we raised for him during his family crisis. I know it went over $2000 but never heard the final total ($3800?). He left in part due to lack of time so 89 packages in 2 days would be a burden, to a certain extent, in my opinion. It was a nice thought Grant but after reading Dave's note, I too think a nice Christmas card with a note is best. Lynn Miller makes OBCs HOF on the first ballot :-) Amazon has free shipping thru 12-4-01 on lots of stuff, when orders go over $99. Go to: www.Amazon.com to see. I'm about to order the 2002 baseball ($27.96), 2001 basketball ($16.06) & 2001 football ($15.36) big SCDs which covers about $60 of the $99 needed. I think CDs are included too so it may be time for me to get that CARS anthology double CD :-) ================= To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:22:03 -0500 From: "Jim Beauchemin" I've been very torn on this one also. But thanks to Yuk, I'm off the hook.I checked over Lynn's list, and I actually do have one he needs. One thing I learned about Lynn is, as someone pointed out, when he said notto send him anything not on his list, he really was serious. Knowing how he loved the old Braves, I sent him a Post Cereal Eddie Mathews at one point, thinking certainly, he'd make an exception for that. He didn't, immediately sending it off to someone else, although he graciously and diplomatically thanked me. Everyone's heart is in the right place, even Grizzled Old Grant, (luv ya buddy!), but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do this time. Anyway, I got a much-loved '52 Topps #390 headed his way, so cross that offhis ----- Original Message ----- From: Traderdoug@aol.com To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:22 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Lynn Miller I'm with Al Cummings on this one. I don;t think Lynn would want us to bombard him with cards. He just did a very nice thing. Let it be. If you have something from his short wantlist it would be fine to send it, but dont bombard him with stuff. Lynn left OBC for a very good reason. And I think you can assume those cards Lynn has been bidding on are the ones he sent to us. - Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ================= To: Subject: New member application Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 05:36:01 -0800 From: "Geno Wagner" Fellas -- I'm about to pass my new member duties over to Bob D'Angelo, so I thought Ibetter give him a clean plate to work with. We have one prospective member, Richard Hankins. I personally have traded with him and would recommend him. If anybody else has anything to add, please do so this week so we canvote on Richard's application. Take Care, Geno ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:49:27 EST Subject: Re: Lynn Miller To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: cardclctor@aol.com In a message dated Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:03:30, keithsummers@webtv.net writes: << I'm with Al, Doug, Dave & Tim. BTW, I never heard a final tally on the amount we raised for him during his family crisis. I know it went over $2000 but never heard the final total ($3800?). He left in part due to lack of time so 89 packages in 2 days would be a burden, to a certain extent, in my opinion. It was a nice thought Grant but after reading Dave's note, I too think a nice Christmas card with a note is best. Lynn Miller makes OBCs HOF on the first ballot :-) >> I think the total on the money orders was $2100 or so. That doesn't include the total from bidding on some of the most expensive beat up commons ever put on eBay. I'd guess the figure Keith mentioned is pretty close though. If someone still has access to the old server (I don't any more), they might be able to see some of the messages from back then to confirm it. Ken M ================= To: , Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Lynn Miller Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:01:54 -0500 From: "Rick Redpath" From July 5, 2000 in a piece entitled "Unexploded Fireworks" by Ken Morganti "...Congratulations to those of you who won some of Lynn's auctions. You boost his total to $3818.18 for the 150 lots he had on eBay. I think I counted only 28 lots that DIDN'T go to OBC'ers - most of these were single cards that ended up going to people who overpaid for them. Incredible is an understatement. Add that to the $2080 I'm sending him in money orders and we came up with almost $6000 to help out.... that's some kinda help!! WOW!! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:49 AM Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] Re: Lynn Miller > I think the total on the money orders was $2100 or so. That doesn't > the total from bidding on some of the most expensive beat up commons ever > on eBay. I'd guess the figure Keith mentioned is pretty close though. > someone still has access to the old server (I don't any more), they might > able to see some of the messages from back then to confirm it. > Ken M ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:10:03 EST Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] New member application To: From: bdangelo@aol.com Hi guys, I also have traded with Richard Hankins, and I highly recommend him. He blew my doors off with the first trade I did with him, sending lots of old stuff that he thought was in "bad" shape (oh boy, wonder what his idea of mint was, these cards were sharp). He definitely has the philosophy we share about giving adn receiving cards, so he would get my vote. ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:16:55 EST Subject: Lynn Miller To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jdelott@aol.com To avoid any potential nuisance to Lynn, rather than bombarding him with dupe baseball cards or Christmas Cards, what about considering chipping in to send Lynn a group OBC Christmas card enclosing an expensive hit on his WL? ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:43:34 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] New member application From: Neal Thomas Hi all- I have what seems to be a contiunous flow of card to and from Richard, and he will no doubt be a huge addition to OBC. He works near Brock, and they (as well as Mac, I think) have swapped and shopped together. I hope to help welcome Richard to OBC soon. ------------------ Reply Separator -------------------- Originally From: "Geno Wagner" Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] New member application Date: 11/28/2001 05:36am Fellas -- I'm about to pass my new member duties over to Bob D'Angelo, so I thought I better give him a clean plate to work with. We have one prospective member, Richard Hankins. I personally have traded with him and would recommend him. If anybody else has anything to add, please do so this week so we can vote on Richard's application. Take Care, Geno ================= To: Subject: New Member Application Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:53:00 -0600 From: "Randy G. Griffin" Hello All: A "big" thumbs up for Richard Hankins. He might even be able to give us some legal advice! Take Care, ================= To: "Ramblings" Subject: Fw: Thanks!! Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:09:46 -0500 From: "Bob" I tried sending this to the Thanks, but it wouldn't go through for some reason -----Original Message----- From: Bob To: OBC-Thanks@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:07 AM Subject: Thanks!! On arriving home after a thoroughly delightful Thanksgiving week on Cape Cod with our son and daughter-in-law, I found a stack of OBC incomings to acknowledge: from Bama, a pair of 54 Bowmans, Ellis Kinder and Earl Torgeson; from Gary Mandell, fourteen beautiful 73 Topps to push that set real close to from Lynn Miller, a 53 Bowman black & white of Duane Pillette, and two envelopes from Jeff Delott; the first with a half-dozen 61 Topps and a single 62 woodie, and the other containing five cards from the 65 Topps set. Thanks a million,guys!! Bob Saxton ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:15:03 -0500 (EST) To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Oddball available From: Neal Thomas Hi all- I came across a card I had never seen before plugged in between some Topps 66's in a recent ebay lot I won. It is a true Tipton mint 1962 "Bell Brand" of Jim Gilliam, #19. Neat card-with the 1962 Dodgers schedule on the back. This card is well-loved, but if anyone collects these, let me know and it is yours. ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:03:18 -0500 (EST) To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: The Lynn Miller Question From: Originaleek@webtv.net As a new member I will defer to group wisdom regarding sending him cards. I did however find a 61T #547 Leon Wagner from his wantlist I'm sending him. Just an F.Y.I. to avoid dupes. I continue to be impressed with the kindness, generosity and thoughtfulness of this group. I am proud to be a member, whatever my name is. ================= To: Originaleek@webtv.net, OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] The Lynn Miller Question Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:22:23 From: "Al Cummings" Erik, you and your half brother Earl are very welcome Big Al in Seattle >From: Originaleek@webtv.net >To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [OBC-Ramblings] The Lynn Miller Question >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:03:18 -0500 (EST) >As a new member I will defer to group wisdom regarding sending him >cards. I did however find a 61T #547 Leon Wagner from his wantlist I'm >sending him. Just an F.Y.I. to avoid dupes. >I continue to be impressed with the kindness, generosity and >thoughtfulness of this group. I am proud to be a member, whatever my >name is. >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:57:25 -0500 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Ebetts Field From: Dan Austin I know some of you will get a kick out of this site: http://www.ebbets-field.com/ Dan Austin - dan@iamdanaustin.com Visit me at http://iamdanaustin.com "How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world." - William Shakespeare ================= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:10:11 -0500 Subject: Interesting article To: OBC Ramblings From: Jimmy Parker Thought you guys may enjoy this article on baseball's contraction and the renewal of King Bud's contract: http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/caple_jim/1285944.html ================= Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 04:06:47 -0000 To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: offline From: alcattle@hotmail.com I turned off most of the servers so my mailbox will be be full but not way past the limit of any person ability to read Email. I will not be on-line for a couple months, except for occasional howdy. I am going in for Surgury on Monday Dec 3rd. They are going to repair/replace a valve in my heart. The problem is finding my heart first of all. But this is the second valve they will work on, the last one was 10 years ago. I should be better than ever in 8 weeks. I wanted to put it off until after the holidays but figured I better get it done so I can get in shape for spring training. (A trip to Reno to prepare for V'02). During my recovery, I will be mailing out packages, trying to catch up with all the great members who have given my cards this year. I owe a lot and I have full dup boxes aimed at quite a few at you. I will tell Dottie to call a couple of people to keep everyone updated on the results and I will be back to torture you with my sometimes witty mail before you miss me. See ya, Go M's Big Al in Seattle ================= Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:14:43 EST Subject: UCLA College Baseball-1928 To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com From: jazzgirl1920s@aol.com Hello- this is Linda- I have a photographic record of a major college baseball team from 1928 to share- I recently visited my college alma mater- UCLA_ - while there i visited the library and came across a 1928 yearbook- They had a scanner in the library so i scanned the page with the picture of the baseball team- i don't recognize any of the players names BUT a more expert OBCer might- if you want a scan to possibly identify some of these players as future major leaguers request it to me by e-mail and i will attach the picture to a return e-mail to you- also the picture of the team is interesting to see their uniforms from 1928 and a written description of their "preliminary" games whatever they are> bye, Linda ================= To: obc-ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: bill henderson Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:50:41 -0800 From: "John Collins" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1039575131 I don't see how Bill makes any money on ebay. This card has been up on the block for probably 2 months now. He keeps re-listing it without changing the minimum bid. What gives? ================= To: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com Subject: RE: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] bill henderson- and dealer price fixing Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:52:22 -0800 From: "John Collins" I believe Linda is correct on the "don't have to sell" attitude from the larger dealers. It is all too typical. Awhile back, I offered Bill Henderson $50 for that same '56 Clemente in my earlier post. He wrote back saying that he couldn't accept that low of a price because the card obviously displayed so much better than the condition it was technically in. He did offer to sell it to me for $80 though, which was slightly below what his opening bid now is. I said no thanks. It is really a shame that Beckett is the established standard instead of a more moderate, middle of the road price guide like SCD. With all due respect to Dr. Buckett and his statistics degree, the folks at SCD have been around the hobby a lot longer and seem to be a lot more knowledgeable about vintage cards. Beckett's biggest problem is the "range" in their price guides, supposedly for NM cards. What range? When was the last time you heard a dealer quote you a "low" Beckett price on a card, or say that this card lists for "between" price A and price B. That simply doesn't happen, and in that respect the price guide is being badly misused. High beckett for a '56 Topps Koufax is $350. The last PSA 7 example of that card that sold on ebay went for $212. Clearly the "high beckett" is more of an extreme case than the norm. But the average dealer treats it just the I believe that deep down Bill Henderson has to know what he is doing. (and he still has not learned his lesson about overgrading, if you ask me). He has been around too long. But with the ungraded vintage cards, Beckett makes it too easy for dealers to look at a card that is in the EX-MT range and immediately slap a high-beckett NM price tag on it and be done with it. This creates the problems at shows that Linda was talking about. Most old cards (particularly of stars) that I see outside of ebay in either shops or shows are grossly overpriced. An extreme example is the blockhead I mentioned to you all earlier in my local mall who puts prices on f/g range 50's stars that I would think were outrageous for EX-MT condition. And that is why they sit there for so long. They can deny it, but Beckett is a large part of why this happens. Beckett is to the card collecting hobby what Microsoft is to the computer world. They have improved things to a certain extent, but one could not necessarily prove that the world is better off because of them. Just my $0.02... >--- Original Message --- >From: Jazzgirl1920s@aol.com >To: jcollins12@triad.rr.com, Smartalecx@aol.com >Date: 11/29/01 9:29:35 AM >hi this is Linda- i tell you what gives- these greedy dealers won't lower >their prices no matter what- this post of yours reminds me of 90 % of the >dealers i encounter at shows-heck- you mention Henderson hasn't changed the >minimum in 2 months even if the card hasn't sold- i HAVE SEEN cards at shows >overpriced the same for years!! and no one buys them at show after show and >when i point it out the dealer says "i don't have too sell this stuff i have >other income"-( then i say stay home then and give up your table to somebody >who DOES want to sell cards at reasonable prices-) a lot of the dealers >apparently refuse to lower their prices because apparently they don't need >the money anyway- they appear to be independantly wealthy or something- or i >always hear when i ask for a discount on an outrageously overpriced card- i >can't i have too much into it- or i won't sell it at a loss- if i keep >reading in the paper the economy is so bad and so many people are out of >work then WHY doesn't the prices of these cards go down??- i thought prices >went down when when people stop spending because of a bad economy- >not with cards- also the biggest enemy of card collectors is that darn >Beckett price guy.that lousy piece of crap that comes out every month and is >the dealers "bible" which sets the prices of cards outrageously high- and >keeps them there- i don't believe for one minute their susposed >explanation of a sampling of what a card is going for- i think the beckett >guide is a price fixing crooked sham that a bunch of big dealers fix to keep >the prices of cards high- because of that darn Beckett junk you can't bargain >-prices are set artifically high and stay there- i want to see the day when >the economy gets so bad there is NO beckett price guide or any other phony >price fixing guide which are nothing but puppets of dealers in collusion to >fix prices- bye, Lind ================= To: Subject: Yes Gary, it's another scandalous trade request -- 1939 Play Ball / and Lynn Miller Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:44:53 -0600 From: "tim newcomb" Hi-- does anyone have extras of the following 1939 Play Balls ? 116-Desautels 121-Posedel 128-Bowman 130-Brubaker 135-Owen 136-Bell 141-Coscarart 145-Mulcahy 146-Sunkel 152-Weatherly (They're all commons.) I will soon have several 1939 high numbers I could trade for any of these. If you can help, let me know. I also found a card from Lynn's secret list (1966 Topps #588) if anyone'skeeping track. I'm sending it to him. ================= To: OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-Ramblings] Digest Number 201 Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:18:36 +0000 From: "George Vrechek"