================= Date: 04 Dec 2014 11:07:43 -0800 To: Subject: Christmas in the Stars! From: james_moleta@hotmail.com ================= Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 18:48:27 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Postwar regionals From: Andy A few odd and unusual for sale: 1950 V362 #42 Glynn $18 1958 Bond Bread Phillips $15 1961 7-11 Woodling (the blank back has writing and a pic of yogi Berra stuck to the back) $16 1960 National Bank of Washington Fisher (tape on back) $15 1964 Topps Stand Up group of 3 $12 ================= Date: 08 Dec 2014 15:29:37 -0800 To: Subject: 1952 Topps High Number From: thenamenotused@yahoo.com ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 07:48:58 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com, Subject: OBC Dealer Scum Group REQUEST FEEDBACK From: Larry Tipton The test period for our Dealer Scum group ends Dec 31. After that, based on feedback, the AC will evaluate the test and then vote whether to continue(as is or with modifications) or terminate this group. Please provide feedback at obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com or to OBC-AC@yahoogroups.com Here are the rules: "This is an official OBC email group. The OBC-AC recognizes that members periodically sell cards to fund other card purchases or for other non-card needs. Our goal is to provide a forum where members may sell their extra cards (see suggested card guidelines below) to other members in order to fulfill these needs. The group is strictly limited to OBC members ONLY, and any OBC member may opt-in or out of the group email at their discretion. Guidelines & rules for OBC-Dealer Scum are as follows: 1) Cards for sale must be pre-1981 and may not have originated as RAOKs. This is not Ebay; cards should be priced in the spirit that we are a community of collectors, and not trying to gouge each other. Individual Topps or Bowman commons, or similarly cheap cards that typically flow freely on waiver wires should not be listed. 2) Once an item is posted for sale, all further communication shall be via private e-mail messages between the seller and prospective buyers. 3) At the conclusion of a successful purchase, thanks should be done via private e-mail messages between buyer and seller; parties are asked NOT to post thanks on the OBC-DealerScum email group. In other words, the only postings to OBC-DealerScum should be items for sale. 4) In the event of a dispute, the parties should first try to resolve their issue among themselves. Any buyer may return an item for a full refundwith no questions asked within two weeks of purchase. If the parties are unable to settle a dispute and the buyer does not request a refund, they maytake their dispute to the AC. 5) Unless decided upon by the OBC-AC, NO AUCTIONS will be permitted on OBC-DealerScum. ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 08:18:04 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: feedback From: Larry Tipton And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we shouldmake: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the mail. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:02:44 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com, Subject: RAOK From: Larry Tipton I need to stem the tide of hate mail (just kidding). OBC is a collecting and trading club and of course so much more than that. How are most of the OBC trades accomplished? RAOK. I send you a RAOK, the card is yours and yoursto do with as you please, it's yours! What if I send you a RAOK and then next week see it on the dealer scum server or for sale on ebay? Number one, OBCers are not going to do that, and if someone did, see how many more RAOKI would send! If an OBC member needs to sell something (it happens) you can't go through your collection and pull out all the RAOK, I can't even remember who sent me a card last month! Cards obtained via OBC trades (RAOK) are yours to do with as you please, they are yours! ================= To: "'Larry Tipton'" , Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:18:47 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] RAOK From: "Bob Donaldson" I agree with Larry. The only caveat would be if someone seemed to be putting up RAOK for sale constantly or even worse was putting up a want list in order to sell RAOK received. I can't see anyone doing that and if they did ebay would probably be a more profitable venue to sell. In general, I don't see it as being an issue, and does not seem to be so far during the dealer scum trial. Bob Donaldson From: OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:03 AM To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com; OBC-Ramblings@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-DealerScum] RAOK I need to stem the tide of hate mail (just kidding). OBC is a collecting and trading club and of course so much more than that. How are most of the OBC trades accomplished? RAOK. I send you a RAOK, the card is yours and yours to do with as you please, it's yours! What if I send you a RAOK and then next week see it on the dealer scum server or for sale on ebay? Number one, OBCers are not going to do that, and if someone did, see how many more RAOK I would send! If an OBC member needs to sell something (it happens) you can't go through your collection and pull out all the RAOK, I can't even remember who sent me a card last month! Cards obtained via OBC trades (RAOK) are yours to do with as you please, they are yours! No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8705 - Release Date: 12/09/14 ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:22:56 -0500 To: Larry Tipton Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Jimi My thoughts: A) Agree on this...please see personal e-mail I sent to you on this, Guru. B) Agree on this as well. C) Agree....these items are for sale, right? Prices are a must! Not only that, pictures and a well thought out description of condition and numbers of cards, etc is needed as well unless the picture(s) give a good indication of the condition. D) Agree.....although I would argue that they already know they are Dealer Scum, so why change it? In all seriousness though, keeping that name may help to keep it light and fun. I would not be offended at all by "Dealer Scum". It comes with the territory. :) Sent from my iPad > On Dec 10, 2014, at 8:18 AM, Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum] wrote: > And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should > A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. > B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the > C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. > D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) > Guru ================= To: "'Larry Tipton'" , Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:28:48 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: "Matt Yudt" I've used this twice (with same seller) and was pleased and would like to see this continue. As for Larry's comment - I agree with it all - A) it is unlikely anyone is doing that, and B) if I found out, it certainly would temper the enthusiasm to send more. However - most of the RAOK's I send are worth a few bucks at most, so I don't see this as an issue. The high value cards I send, and I do try to send them, are very specific and usually trying to return generosity of similar kind, and very targeted to the want-list. But again - its their card. I would hope they would send it out as another RAOK rather then selling it, but its not mine to decide. Only one thing in this vein would piss me off - and that is if someone claimed a waiver wire and sold it - or even traded it, as it could have gone to a more worthy collection. But even there, I think a statute of limitations applies - after a year or so, collection objectives change and so does life situations, so it wouldn't bother me if someone did that with a waiver they got from me 2 or more years ago. Besides, I'd never know by then anyway. My 2 pennies. Matt Yudt From: OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 8:18 AM To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:00:27 -0600 To: "obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com" Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Steve Rittenberg Disagree with D (Dealer posting) for now. 1. They can set up their own mailing lists, like Mark Macrae 2. To me, the list was set up for OBCers to sell to OBCers. What if battersbox or Levi Bleam became certified dealers (I know it is unlikely) and decided to post their entire catalog on the server? 3. I don't like the possibility of a dealer looking at a lot (or even a card) for sale by us and buying it from one of us so that they can flip it. If I paid $25 for a '52 high number, I want to share that good fortune withOBC. I don't want it to go to a dealer who will remark it at $60. Steve Rittenberg Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: > And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should > A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. > B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the > C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. > D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) > Guru ================= To: Peter Mead , "obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 15:01:22 +0000 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Jo Meyer and John Gray My friends, Maybe Peter's excellent point could be addressed by having someone serve asDS liaison on a yearly basis, where THEY get emailed the offers from the dealers, and then post it onto the OBC DS server. This would prevent outside eyes from seeing our business. It would be extra work, but the liaison would have the benefit of seeing these offers first.... Be happy, John Scott Gray To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 08:49:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback I agree with A, B and C. I think we need to refine D, and I am all for some version of this. Maybe we set up another server for our dealer friends. I don't think we want them to read the other DS offers, or do we? I'm notcertain we want them to see the other dealer offerings either. Are they eligible to make purchases or just sell? I think OBC dealers might participate if it was easy for them to post cards/lots--and they actually realize card sales (which I think would take care of itself. We are essentially offering a clearing house for beaters and the unwanted--outside of the online sales sites (so no seller fees, etc.). more food for thought-- peter mead On 12/10/14, Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum] And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we shouldmake: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the mail. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) ================= To: "'Steve Rittenberg'" , Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:24:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: "Bob Donaldson" I think if we do D (Dealer posting) we would have to do it so that dealers could post only. They could not see what others post to the server From: OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rittenberg srittenberg@gmail.com [OBC-DealerScum] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:00 AM To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback Disagree with D (Dealer posting) for now. 1. They can set up their own mailing lists, like Mark Macrae 2. To me, the list was set up for OBCers to sell to OBCers. What if battersbox or Levi Bleam became certified dealers (I know it is unlikely) and decided to post their entire catalog on the server? 3. I don't like the possibility of a dealer looking at a lot (or even a card) for sale by us and buying it from one of us so that they can flip it. If I paid $25 for a '52 high number, I want to share that good fortune withOBC. I don't want it to go to a dealer who will remark it at $60. Steve Rittenberg Sent from my iPhone On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we shouldmake: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the mail. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8705 - Release Date: 12/09/14 ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:29:48 -0500 To: larrytipton@windstream.net, obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: smartalecx@aol.com Content-Language: en A. Agree B. Disagree. We should keep our noses out of it. Let the buyer and seller deal with it themselves. This should be a forum to facilitate sales between OBC members. OBC does not need to dictate every rule about every C. Disagree. If I want to sell something, I may want to sell it for the best offer I get. I could put $99 OBO, which is like not pricing it at all, or I could do nothing, and just ask for bids and see what happens. Why do we need to make a rule about that? Are we paying for the number of emails that go through the server? D. TOTALLY DISAGREE. I do not think that we should be sponsoring retail sales of outside dealers on our site. I would propose, as John Morrison used to do, that they be allowed to post something like "I am breaking up a 53 topps baseball set. You can see the items for sale at my website Again, my understanding is that we are trying to help facilitate sales between members for those who want to do so, not be a marketplace for folkswho run a dealer business. I guess I see a difference between us and them. Gary Mandell P.O. Box 180333 Chicago, IL 60618-0676 Member: OBC, OCT, DT, TB In a message dated 12/10/2014 7:18:28 A.M. Central Standard Time, OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com writes: And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:32:19 -0600 To: Jo Meyer and John Gray Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: MarkZ I like JSG approach to item D Sent from mark z ipod On Dec 10, 2014, at 9:01 AM, "Jo Meyer and John Gray meyergray@msn.com [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: > My friends, > Maybe Peter's excellent point could be addressed by having someone serve as DS liaison on a yearly basis, where THEY get emailed the offers from thedealers, and then post it onto the OBC DS server. This would prevent outside eyes from seeing our business. It would be extra work, but the liaisonwould have the benefit of seeing these offers first.... > Be happy, > JSG > John Scott Gray > To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com > From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 08:49:28 -0600 > Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback > Larry: > I agree with A, B and C. I think we need to refine D, and I am all for some version of this. Maybe we set up another server for our dealer friends. I don't think we want them to read the other DS offers, or do we? I'm not certain we want them to see the other dealer offerings either. Are they eligible to make purchases or just sell? > I think OBC dealers might participate if it was easy for them to post cards/lots--and they actually realize card sales (which I think would take care of itself. We are essentially offering a clearing house for beaters and the unwanted--outside of the online sales sites (so no seller fees, etc.). > more food for thought-- > peter mead > On 12/10/14, Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum] > And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should > A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. > B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the > C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. > D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) > Guru ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 12:40:56 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Jake Elwell I like this idea too too. A liaison would also provide a "filter" for our membership, preventing a dealer from posting spam, UV, overpriced stuff or aridiculously long list. On Dec 10, 2014, at 10:32 AM, MarkZ mzentko@yahoo.com [OBC-DealerScum] wrote: > I like JSG approach to item D > Sent from mark z ipod > On Dec 10, 2014, at 9:01 AM, "Jo Meyer and John Gray meyergray@msn.com [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: >> My friends, >> Maybe Peter's excellent point could be addressed by having someone serveas DS liaison on a yearly basis, where THEY get emailed the offers from the dealers, and then post it onto the OBC DS server. This would prevent outside eyes from seeing our business. It would be extra work, but the liaison would have the benefit of seeing these offers first.... >> Be happy, >> JSG >> John Scott Gray ================= To: Bob Donaldson , "obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:52:55 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Taylor Schock I agree with Bob in that they could POST only and not receive the email updates. Since responses to postings are supposed to be email-to-email betweenthe buyer-seller, there is no need for dealers to SEE the posting. So there is no "technical" reason they would need to see anything else being posted. The question simply is should dealers be allowed to offer items (through OBC servers) in the first place. Personally, I'm fine with that. To: srittenberg@gmail.com; obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:24:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback I think if we do D (Dealer posting) we would have to do it so that dealers could post only. They could not see what others post to the server From: OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rittenberg srittenberg@gmail.com [OBC-DealerScum] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:00 AM To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback Disagree with D (Dealer posting) for now. 1. They can set up their own mailing lists, like Mark Macrae2. To me, the list was set up for OBCers to sell to OBCers. What if battersbox or Levi Bleam became certified dealers (I know it is unlikely) and decided to post their entire catalog on the server?3. I don't like the possibility of a dealer looking at a lot (or even a card) for sale by us and buying it from one of us so that they can flip it. If I paid $25 for a '52 high number, I want to share that good fortune with OBC. I don't want it to go to adealer who will remark it at $60. Steve Rittenberg Sent from my iPhone On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should make: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the mail. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8705 - Release Date: 12/09/14 ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 12:58:44 -0600 To: Taylor Schock Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Bob Donaldson The only possible issue I see is that as a member of the dealer scum group, they would see everybody's initial posts. I wouldn't want that. I am leaning towards the liaison suggestion. On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Taylor Schock > I agree with Bob in that they could POST only and not receive the email > updates. Since responses to postings are supposed to be email-to-email > between the buyer-seller, there is no need for dealers to SEE the posting. > So there is no "technical" reason they would need to see anything else > being posted. > The question simply is should dealers be allowed to offer items (through > OBC servers) in the first place. > Personally, I'm fine with that. > Regards, > Taylor > ------------------------------ > To: srittenberg@gmail.com; obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com > From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:24:32 -0500 > Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback > I think if we do D (Dealer posting) we would have to do it so that dealers > could post *only*. They could not see what others post to the server > *From:* OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Rittenberg > srittenberg@gmail.com [OBC-DealerScum] > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:00 AM > *To:* obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback > Disagree with D (Dealer posting) for now. > 1. They can set up their own mailing lists, like Mark Macrae > 2. To me, the list was set up for OBCers to sell to OBCers. What if > battersbox or Levi Bleam became certified dealers (I know it is unlikely) > and decided to post their entire catalog on the server? > 3. I don't like the possibility of a dealer looking at a lot (or even a > card) for sale by us and buying it from one of us so that they can flip it. > If I paid $25 for a '52 high number, I want to share that good fortune > with OBC. I don't want it to go to a dealer who will remark it at $60. > Steve Rittenberg > Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net > [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: > And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we > should make: > A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a > RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. > B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the > mail. > C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. > D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this > may require a name change to the server) > Guru > ------------------------------ > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8705 - Release Date: 12/09/14 ================= To: "obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:16:41 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Taylor Schock A ) Agree. Obviously if someone starts "flipping" (implying near-immediate) RAOK and waiver-wire claims, that's an issue and will probably be addressed by the group noticing that and the RAOK and waiver-wire claims for that person dry up (as noted by others). I don't remember cards received from people last month, let alone last year, so that Kaline RC with the holes in it may get RAOK-ed, waiver-wired, or scummed if I upgrade, and that decision is mine alone. B ) Agree, sort of. In my view this is "a given" and need not be a rule, but for the purpose of clarity it should be stated as such. It is a "given" (to me anyway) when I trade, and would therefore be a "given" if I'm selling something. It's up to the seller how to "insure" that the package arrives or funds refunded. C ) Agree. Prices could also state OBO as well (to Gary's point). The point is that some "starting point" price should be provided by the SELLER. Whether it is bottom line price or starting point is up to the seller. D ) Agree, sort of (from another post). I think OBC dealers should be allow to POST but not allowed to SEE the postings. Not an email server expert, but if the access to the server is restricted to emails (for dealers), I think you can limit the email response back to dealers as none (or something like that). Essentially the can email TO the email server but based on their email address, not be allowed any responses BACK from the email server itself. That will prevent them from seeing any other activity other than there own, since they obviously know what they posted (through email) and subsequent responses (from buyers) would come directly to them (as noted in the rules already). Unless the servers are getting hit with email/post transaction costs, my email filter and delete keys work just fine to weed out stuff I don't want to waste time on, so I see no need to limit the small amount of email traffic through additional rules/limitations on who can post what. To: obcbobd@gmail.com; obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:52:55 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback I agree with Bob in that they could POST only and not receive the email updates. Since responses to postings are supposed to be email-to-email betweenthe buyer-seller, there is no need for dealers to SEE the posting. So there is no "technical" reason they would need to see anything else being posted. The question simply is should dealers be allowed to offer items (through OBC servers) in the first place. Personally, I'm fine with that. To: srittenberg@gmail.com; obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:24:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback I think if we do D (Dealer posting) we would have to do it so that dealers could post only. They could not see what others post to the server From: OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rittenberg srittenberg@gmail.com [OBC-DealerScum] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:00 AM To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback Disagree with D (Dealer posting) for now. 1. They can set up their own mailing lists, like Mark Macrae2. To me, the list was set up for OBCers to sell to OBCers. What if battersbox or Levi Bleam became certified dealers (I know it is unlikely) and decided to post their entire catalog on the server?3. I don't like the possibility of a dealer looking at a lot (or even a card) for sale by us and buying it from one of us so that they can flip it. If I paid $25 for a '52 high number, I want to share that good fortune with OBC. I don't want it to go to adealer who will remark it at $60. Steve Rittenberg Sent from my iPhone On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should make: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the mail. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8705 - Release Date: 12/09/14 ================= To: "obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com" Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:26:59 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: Taylor Schock OK, apparently on D you can't restrict this since it is through Yahoo groups. They just have POST privileges to group so you can't restrict them from viewing the group, as you might be able to through other methods. So bottomline is if they can post (email), they can view. To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:16:41 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback A ) Agree. Obviously if someone starts "flipping" (implying near-immediate) RAOK and waiver-wire claims, that's an issue and will probably be addressed by the group noticing that and the RAOK and waiver-wire claims for that person dry up (as noted by others). I don't remember cards received from people last month, let alone last year, so that Kaline RC with the holes in it may get RAOK-ed, waiver-wired, or scummed if I upgrade, and that decision is mine alone. B ) Agree, sort of. In my view this is "a given" and need not be a rule, but for the purpose of clarity it should be stated as such. It is a "given" (to me anyway) when I trade, and would therefore be a "given" if I'm selling something. It's up to the seller how to "insure" that the package arrives or funds refunded. C ) Agree. Prices could also state OBO as well (to Gary's point). The point is that some "starting point" price should be provided by the SELLER. Whether it is bottom line price or starting point is up to the seller. D ) Agree, sort of (from another post). I think OBC dealers should be allow to POST but not allowed to SEE the postings. Not an email server expert, but if the access to the server is restricted to emails (for dealers), I think you can limit the email response back to dealers as none (or something like that). Essentially the can email TO the email server but based on their email address, not be allowed any responses BACK from the email server itself. That will prevent them from seeing any other activity other than there own, since they obviously know what they posted (through email) and subsequent responses (from buyers) would come directly to them (as noted in the rules already). Unless the servers are getting hit with email/post transaction costs, my email filter and delete keys work just fine to weed out stuff I don't want to waste time on, so I see no need to limit the small amount of email traffic through additional rules/limitations on who can post what. To: obcbobd@gmail.com; obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:52:55 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback I agree with Bob in that they could POST only and not receive the email updates. Since responses to postings are supposed to be email-to-email betweenthe buyer-seller, there is no need for dealers to SEE the posting. So there is no "technical" reason they would need to see anything else being posted. The question simply is should dealers be allowed to offer items (through OBC servers) in the first place. Personally, I'm fine with that. To: srittenberg@gmail.com; obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com From: OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:24:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback I think if we do D (Dealer posting) we would have to do it so that dealers could post only. They could not see what others post to the server From: OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rittenberg srittenberg@gmail.com [OBC-DealerScum] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 10:00 AM To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback Disagree with D (Dealer posting) for now. 1. They can set up their own mailing lists, like Mark Macrae2. To me, the list was set up for OBCers to sell to OBCers. What if battersbox or Levi Bleam became certified dealers (I know it is unlikely) and decided to post their entire catalog on the server?3. I don't like the possibility of a dealer looking at a lot (or even a card) for sale by us and buying it from one of us so that they can flip it. If I paid $25 for a '52 high number, I want to share that good fortune with OBC. I don't want it to go to adealer who will remark it at $60. Steve Rittenberg Sent from my iPhone On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should make: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the mail. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8705 - Release Date: 12/09/14 ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 19:55:37 -0500 To: "obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com" , Subject: Dealer scum 1941 Double Play Singles From: Robert Fitts At the Philly Show last weekend I picked up a large stack of 1941 Double Play =93singles=94 that is the cards cut in half so that each player has hisown card. I have 52 doubles. Most are VG some a little worse. Many can be reunited with their partner with tape. These are all commons or very minor stars. If any body wants them at cost ($1.50 each) it would be $75 for the lot. please let me know rob fitts ================= To: hoot_owl1@verizon.net, obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 21:15:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: typecard@aol.com I agree with A, B, C (OBO fine for big stuff). For D, I think having dealers send deals through a central "clearinghouse/filter/liaison" who would post the deals on the the DS email list would be a good idea. There are a number of dealers who either have special OBC boxes behind their tables at shows, or have other history of offering special OBC deals (e.g., group lots ofbeaters from prewar or 50s sets) and this might facilitate the flow of ourtype of cards into the group. Whoever was interested would then respond directly to the dealer to consummate any transaction. -----Original Message----- From: hoot_owl1@verizon.net [OBC-DealerScum] To: obc-dealerscum Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 9:49 am Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback I agree with A, B and C. I think we need to refine D, and I am all for some version of this. Maybe we set up another server for our dealer friends. I don't think we want them to read the other DS offers, or do we? I'm notcertain we want them to see the other dealer offerings either. Are they eligible to make purchases or just sell? I think OBC dealers might participate if it was easy for them to post cards/lots--and they actually realize card sales (which I think would take care of itself. We are essentially offering a clearing house for beaters and the unwanted--outside of the online sales sites (so no seller fees, etc.). more food for thought-- peter mead On 12/10/14, Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum] And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we shouldmake: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the mail. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 21:19:24 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: ChicoD1@aol.com Content-Language: en I kinda like what's transpired so far. I see some happy activity from some of the guys, it enhances their collections, so this is a good thing. A- I think it was Matt who said about RAOKs. I feel similar, that a card sent is for the collection. Not to say that your needs/wants change, but I would hope someone would keep a card a while before posting it. In reality, don't think this will be much of a problem, except in the rare instance, mainly because the card was listed on a want list and it was sent to a person that needed the card in the first place. Every once in a while, someone may get a duplicate card in the mail. But if that was the case, I'm going to pay it forward, rather than post in this forum. B- Good arguments here. Maybe work out any issues among themselves, But the onus should be on the seller first. We can use the OBCAC as a point of arbitration, if it gets that bad. Truthfully, the way the guys in this group are, I really believe that any problems would be worked out. If you are selling a card that has that high a value, I suggest tracking for the extra cents or whatever it is. C- I don't think I have seen a post that didn't include the prices. Kind of common sense if you are selling a card, eh? D- Maybe not at the beginning, but we can let them post a card or three, say every month (Dealer Day) that anyone in the group can purchase. (We can do a 3 month trial of this and see how it goes. My belief is that most of the dealers won't remember to do this and we'll have maybe 2 or 3 who participate in the long term). They may only SELL cards, not purchase. We keep emails viewable to us only. John's "liaison" idea works well here. The dealer sends to that person their "cards of the month" and the liaison posts for the group. Make sure the dealers put their email addresses in there, so the prospective buyers will contact them directly for a purchase. If we go this route, the dealers should to be reminded the kind of group we are and posts cards accordingly. (They will probably post cards only we would love anyway). In the big picture, we can even make this a vote-able position during our annual OBCAC elections. Sal Domino OBC - 1992 In a message dated 12/10/2014 10:01:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com writes: Disagree with D (Dealer posting) for now. 1. They can set up their own mailing lists, like Mark Macrae 2. To me, the list was set up for OBCers to sell to OBCers. What if battersbox or Levi Bleam became certified dealers (I know it is unlikely) and decided to post their entire catalog on the server? 3. I don't like the possibility of a dealer looking at a lot (or even a card) for sale by us and buying it from one of us so that they can flip it. If I paid $25 for a '52 high number, I want to share that good fortune with OBC. I don't want it to go to a dealer who will remark it at $60. Steve Rittenberg Sent from my iPhone On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Larry Tipton _larrytipton@windstream.net_ (mailto:larrytipton@windstream.net) [OBC-DealerScum]" <_OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.co m_ (mailto:OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com) > wrote: And just to get things rolling, here are a couple changes I think we should make: A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) ================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 21:34:09 -0500 To: Robert Fitts Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] Dealer scum 1941 Double Play Singles ---- Follow From: Robert Fitts So, I=92ve had about 10 people asking IF I want to break i up then they would like =85 I really just want to get my money back by selling the lot but how about this, I will break up the lot and sell individuals at $5 each. That way, I can probably make my money back and you all can get the cards to want. please let me know if you are interested On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Robert Fitts robertfitts@verizon.net [OBC-DealerScum] wrote: > At the Philly Show last weekend I picked up a large stack of 1941 Double Play =93singles=94 that is the cards cut in half so that each player has his own card. I have 52 doubles. Most are VG some a little worse. Many canbe reunited with their partner with tape. These are all commons or very minor stars. If any body wants them at cost ($1.50 each) it would be $75 for the lot. please let me know > rob fitts > ------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------ > The OBC Dealer Scum server is to be used exclusively by OBC members to post vintage cards (1980 & earlier) for sale to other OBC members.Unless otherwise approved by the OBC-AC, auctions are not permitted. > OBC is governed by Rules of Conduct approved by the OBC Advisory Committee. The Rules of Conduct are available from a link on the home page or directly at www.oldbaseball.com/obcroc.html > ------------------------------------ > Yahoo Groups Links ================= Date: 11 Dec 2014 19:32:05 -0800 To: Subject: Feedback From: b_betza@yahoo.com ================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 00:22:43 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] feedback From: cardclctor@aol.com A. Eliminate all references that do not allow selling RAOK. If I send a RAOK the card is yours and yours to do with as you please. I agree with this, as I "send 'em and forget 'em" for the most part. HOWEVER, if I think you're taking advantage of my generosity or that of this group, it will be a cold day in Hades before you get another card from me. B. Specify that it is the sellers responsibility if an item is lost in the This should be between the two parties involved and the AC should only be involved in the rare instance of a dispute as already stated in the ROC. C. Require that prices be included with items for sale. Well, in my case, I'm only listing stuff at the price I paid - a 'best offer' would mean I lose money on the card. An auction or highest offer would conflict with my interpretation of what the spirit of OBC is all about. I'm not in this group to flip cards and make money off my friends. I'm just treating everyone how I'd like to be treated. When I'm at a show, I'm more likely to buy a card with the price sticker already on it than one where I have to wait to get the dealer's attention, ask about the card and wait again for him to pull out his newest edition of Buckett and quote me the near mint price on a VG or worse card. D. Allow our OBC Certified Dealers to post on the Dealer-Scum server (this may require a name change to the server) I'm on the fence with this a little. I like the idea of a liaison, but I'd like some kind of limit on what the dealers can post for sale. Ideally, I'd like to see either starter lots or just key cards/hard to find cards listed for sale. What I DON'T want to see listed are lists of <$5 single commons and/or minor stars... unless they're high number SP's or something you wouldn't ordinarily find in dollar or bargain bins very often. The dollar and bargain bin cards are what normally goes around in this group as RAOK, so I don't want to see that rehashed on the server. Ken M ================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:01:13 -0500 To: "obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com" Subject: re feedback From: Larry Tipton Listing a card for $50 OBO could also generate a higher price if several members wanted the card. "Well, in my case, I'm only listing stuff at the price I paid - a 'best offer' would mean I lose money on the card" Sent from my iPhone ================= To: "'Larry Tipton'" , Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 10:20:00 -0500 Subject: RE: [OBC-DealerScum] re feedback From: "Bob Donaldson" I'll go $45, no more J From: OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OBC-DealerScum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:01 AM To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [OBC-DealerScum] re feedback Listing a card for $50 OBO could also generate a higher price if several members wanted the card. "Well, in my case, I'm only listing stuff at the price I paid - a 'best offer' would mean I lose money on the card" Sent from my iPhone No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8717 - Release Date: 12/11/14 ================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 15:33:19 +0000 (UTC) To: OBC-DealerScum Subject: HUGE lot of t206s available....70 in all with HOFers, Hindu backs, From: Jim Thayer Hey guys, Today I'm offering up these T206 cards for sale to the OBC Brethren before they hit other venues. Some very tough cards in the mix with Hindu backs, Sovereigns, American Beauty, and lots of HOFers! I am working onscans right now so feel free to chime in with interest, and I'll send you a nice scan once I'm done. Sorry for no condition details below unless they were graded. I figured the scans will do better justice than my descriptions! All prices include shipping and I'll try and give group discounts, too, if you want more than one card. I'm really hoping to unload every card before 2015! :) For the non-T206 literates of the group, here is a key (ha!):P PiedmontSC Sweet CaporalPB Polar BearAB American BeautySov SovereignEPDG El Principe De GalesTolstoi TolstoiHindu Hindu Hopefully the chart below shows up. If not, let m know and I can try a different method. Thanks! | Card | Condition | Listing Price | | t206 Barry Sov350 | | $25.00 | | t206 Beck PB | | $24.00 | | t206 Bergen Batting EPDG | SGC 20 | $50.00 | | t206 Bergen Sov460 | | $22.00 | | t206 Bescher Sov350 | | $26.00 | | t206 Bresnahan Bat SC350 - 30 | | $90.00 | | t206 Burns Sov350 | SGC 30 | $58.00 | | t206 Chance Batting SC350-460 - 30 | SGC 35 | $90.00 | | t206 Chase Blue Portrait P350-460 - 25 | | $38.00 | | t206 Clarke Bat SC 150 - 30 | | $45.00 | | t206 Clarke Portrait SC150 - 30 | | $62.00 | | t206 Clarke Portrait SC150 - 30 | SGC 30 | $95.00 | | t206 Clarke Portrait Sovereign150 | | $90.00 | | t206 Cobb Bat On P350 - 25 | | $800.00 | | t206 Cravath PB | SGC 30 | $45.00 | | t206 Crawford w/ Bat SC350 - 30 | | $70.00 | | t206 Criger Portrait Sov 150 | | $20.00 | | t206 Criss Sov350 | PSA 3 | $48.00 | | t206 Davis H. Davis on Front Hindu | SGC 30 | $375.00 | | t206 Devore Double Factory! SC 350-460 - 42 & 30 | | $35.00 | | t206 Doc White Portrait Hindu | SGC 10 | $175.00 | | t206 Donlin Sov150 | | $19.00 | | t206 Dots Miller AB | GAI 1.5 | $65.00 | | t206 Duffy Batting Tolstoi | PSA 2 | $200.00 | | t206 Easterly Sov350 | | $35.00 | | t206 Evers Portrait P150 - 25 | | $60.00 | | t206 F. Smith Sov150 | | $38.00 | | t206 G. Davis P150 | | $25.00 | | t206 Gasper Tolstoi | | $28.00 | | t206 Griffith Portrait SC350 - 25 | SGC 30 | $90.00 | | t206 Griffith SC350-460 - 42 | | $30.00 | | t206 Hemphill Sov150 | | $26.00 | | t206 Huggins Hands On Mouth P350 - 25 | | $22.00 | | t206 Huggins Portrait P350 - 25 | | $90.00 | | t206 Jennings Hands Up P350 - 25 | | $38.00 | | t206 Jennings PB | | $45.00 | | t206 Keeler Portrait P150 - 25 | | $80.00 | | t206 Kelley P350 - 25 | | $35.00 | | t206 Kleinow Catching Sov350 Green Apple | | $32.00 | | t206 Lajoie Portrait P150 - 25 | | $90.00 | | t206 Lajoie Portrait P150 - 25 | SGC 40 | $350.00 | | t206 Marquard Hands On Thighs SC150 - 25 | | $40.00 | | t206 Mathewson Portrait P150 - 25 | | $250.00 | | t206 McElveen P350 - 25 | | $30.00 | | t206 McGinnity Throwing P350 - 25 | | $70.00 | | t206 McGinnity Throwing P350 - 25 | | $65.00 | | t206 McGraw Finger In Air SC350 - 30 | | $55.00 | | t206 McGraw Finger P150 | With another t206 glued to the back | $29.00 | | t206 McGraw Glove on Hip Sovereign460 | | $85.00 | | t206 McGraw Hat On P350-460 - 25 | =E2=9CWilliam Born=E2=9D | $90.00 | t206 McGraw Hat On SC350-460 - 30 | Printer=E2=99s Mark | $90.00 | | t206 Merkle SC350-460 - 30 | | $36.00 | | t206 Milligan Sov350 | | $36.00 | | t206 Myers Fielding P350 - 25 | SGC 30 - Name at Top and Bottom | $45.00 | | t206 Pastorius Sov150 | | $22.00 | | t206 Rhoades Tolstoi | | $55.00 | | t206 Ritchey Sov150 | | $25.00 | | t206 Ritter AB350 - 25 | | $39.00 | | t206 Sheckard P150 - 25 | | $28.00 | | t206 Street Catching P350 - 25 | SGC 45 | $55.00 | | t206 Sweeney Tolstoi | | $40.00 | | t206 Waddell Throwing P150 - 25 | | $34.00 | | t206 Wallace Portrait P350 - 25 | | $70.00 | | t206 Wallace Portrait SC150 - 30 | | $60.00 | | t206 Walsh Portrait P350 - 25 | PSA 3(MK) | $125.00 | | t206 White Sov350 Green Apple | | $24.00 | | t206 Wilhelm Batting SC350 - 30 | BVG 3.5 | $49.00 | | t206 Wilhelm P150 - 25 | | $40.00 | | t206 Willett AB350 - 25 | Looks trimmed, but measures correctly | $65.00 | | t206 Willis w/ Bat P350 - 25 | | $90.00 | ================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:26:05 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: For Sale vs. RAOK From: Larry Tipton Where do I get the RAOK cards I send out? The same place everyone else does, I buy them! Sometimes I=92ll buy a card for a specific OBC RAOK, many times I see a great deal on a card or a group of cards and I=92ll just buy them knowing I can send them out RAOK. But I always check to see if these are upgrades to what I already have in my collection (guru upgrades?). Sometimes I purchase a lot or collection of cards knowing I need some, and knowing that I=92ll be able to send the extras out RAOK. So for many of us (all of us?) these are the cards in our dupes box, and these are the cards that aretraded (via RAOK) within OBC, cards we have recently purchased! The only thing wrong with this, is that we all have a limit on how much money we can spend on baseball cards. And I have left MANY bargains behind because I simply can=92t afford to buy everything and send them out RAOK. So Ithink Dealer Scum might be a way to help each other out. Last month at ourlocal show there was a part time dealer set up who had a huge selection of1960s star cards for sale at a great price. But I had already spent most of what I had budgeted, and I could only purchase one card to send out RAOK.The card I bought was a 1966 Topps Pete Rose beautiful condition for $5. Well this card never made it to RAOK because someone else at the show offered me $10 for it and I sold it to him LOL! I=92ve never sold a card on the Dealer Scum server, and I don=92t know if Iever will. But last month at our local show I could have bought $200 worthof beautiful cheap 1960 star cards and put them up on the Dealer Scum server for what I paid for them. I don=92t go over my budget and I pass on the good deals to OBC members who would gladly pay $5 for a 1966 Topps Pete Rose I think one thing we need to be careful of, is to remember the foundation of OBC, trading through RAOK! And I=92ve seen this modeled by the guys who have posted cards for sale here on the dealer-scum server. Sure they are selling some cards, but I=92ve also seen their name mentioned on the =93ThanksServer=94 for a RAOK, and I=92ve also seen them post Waiver Wire cards on the =93Ramblings Server=94. ================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 22:32:44 -0600 To: Larry Tipton Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] For Sale vs. RAOK From: TJ Valacak I believe Guru says it best with this: "...to remember the foundation of OBC, trading through RAOK" I really don't think this will be an issue with our group. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 12, 2014, at 11:26 AM, "Larry Tipton larrytipton@windstream.net [OBC-DealerScum]" wrote: > Where do I get the RAOK cards I send out? The same place everyone else does, I buy them! Sometimes I=E2=99ll buy a card for a specific OBC RAOK, many times I see a great deal on a card or a group of cards and I=E2=99ll just buy them knowing I can send them out RAOK. But I always check to seeif these are upgrades to what I already have in my collection (guru upgrades?). Sometimes I purchase a lot or collection of cards knowing I need some, and knowing that I=E2=99ll be able to send the extras out RAOK. So formany of us (all of us?) these are the cards in our dupes box, and these are the cards that are traded (via RAOK) within OBC, cards we have recently purchased! > The only thing wrong with this, is that we all have a limit on how much money we can spend on baseball cards. And I have left MANY bargains behind because I simply can=E2=99t afford to buy everything and send them out RAOK. So I think Dealer Scum might be a way to help each other out. Last month at our local show there was a part time dealer set up who had a huge selection of 1960s star cards for sale at a great price. But I had already spent most of what I had budgeted, and I could only purchase one card to send out RAOK. The card I bought was a 1966 Topps Pete Rose beautiful condition for $5. Well this card never made it to RAOK because someone else at the show offered me $10 for it and I sold it to him LOL! > I=E2=99ve never sold a card on the Dealer Scum server, and I don=E2=99t know if I ever will. But last month at our local show I could have bought $200 worth of beautiful cheap 1960 star cards and put them up on the Dealer Scum server for what I paid for them. I don=E2=99t go over my budget and I pass on the good deals to OBC members who would gladly pay $5 for a1966 Topps Pete Rose card. > I think one thing we need to be careful of, is to remember the foundationof OBC, trading through RAOK! And I=E2=99ve seen this modeled by the guys who have posted cards for sale here on the dealer-scum server. Sure theyare selling some cards, but I=E2=99ve also seen their name mentioned onthe =E2=9CThanks Server=E2=9D for a RAOK, and I=E2=99ve also seenthem post Waiver Wire cards on the =E2=9CRamblings Server=E2=9D. > Guru ================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 23:32:50 -0500 To: obc-dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] For Sale vs. RAOK From: cardclctor@aol.com Content-Language: en One of the great things about OBC is that everyone participates on their own level. Some people don't have access to any local shows and/or have never attended a National Convention. This server is a great way for them to some of the great deals from the people that DO frequently attend shows and/or the National. How you determine what (if any) cards you send out as RAOK or what cards (if any) you'd want to buy/sell on here is entirely up to you... and your budget (if any). Sure it'd be great walking into a show the day after you hit Powerball and buying up all the OBC grade bargains and sending them out as RAOK... that's probably not going to happen (especially for me, as I haven't had abet in four years now). Spend whatever you're comfortable with on RAOK - if that's zero, I'm not going to chastise you or think any less of you just because you're not spending the same amount or percentage that I'M comfortable with. Everybody's situation is different - everybody's collections are different. I shouldn't expect someone who needs 10,000 cards to finish their Topps run to value, say, some 1955 high numbers the same as someone who has finished the run and is now working on variations, upgrades and second sets. When I first joined OBC, I sent out a lot of 52 and 53 Topps because I was "never going to work on *those* sets". Then my perception changed when I finally broke down and started the sets. Then it changed again to the point I'm at now, where if I see any commons for a couple bucks each (or high numbers for $25-30), I'm going to buy them, even though I don't need them - know I can pass them along to someone who does need them at my cost - or make someone's day for just a couple bucks... or whatever I feel comfortable with at the time. I think I've rambled on long enough. Thanks for reading, Ken M In a message dated 12/12/2014 12:26:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com writes: Where do I get the RAOK cards I send out? The same place everyone else does, I buy them! Sometimes I=E2=99ll buy a card for a specific OBC RAOK, times I see a great deal on a card or a group of cards and I=E2=99ll just buy them knowing I can send them out RAOK. But I always check to see if these are upgrades to what I already have in my collection (guru upgrades?). Sometimes purchase a lot or collection of cards knowing I need some, and knowing that I=E2=99ll be able to send the extras out RAOK. So for many of us (all of us?) these are the cards in our dupes box, and these are the cards that are traded (via RAOK) within OBC, cards we have recently purchased! The only thing wrong with this, is that we all have a limit on how much money we can spend on baseball cards. And I have left MANY bargains behind because I simply can=E2=99t afford to buy everything and send them out RAOK. So I think Dealer Scum might be a way to help each other out. Last month at our local show there was a part time dealer set up who had a huge selection of 1960s star cards for sale at a great price. But I had already spent most of what I had budgeted, and I could only purchase one card to send out RAOK. The card I bought was a 1966 Topps Pete Rose beautiful condition for $5. Well this card never made it to RAOK because someone else at the show offered me $10 for it and I sold it to him LOL! I=E2=99ve never sold a card on the Dealer Scum server, and I don=E2=99t know if I ever will. But last month at our local show I could have bought $200 worth of beautiful cheap 1960 star cards and put them up on the Dealer Scum server for what I paid for them. I don=E2=99t go over my budget and I pass on the deals to OBC members who would gladly pay $5 for a 1966 Topps Pete Rose I think one thing we need to be careful of, is to remember the foundation of OBC, trading through RAOK! And I=E2=99ve seen this modeled by the guys have posted cards for sale here on the dealer-scum server. Sure they are selling some cards, but I=E2=99ve also seen their name mentioned on the=E2=9CThanks Server=E2=9D for a RAOK, and I=E2=99ve also seen them post Waiver Wire cards on the =E2=9C Ramblings Server=E2=9D. ================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 07:44:28 -0800 To: "cardclctor@aol.com" Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] For Sale vs. RAOK From: Rick I was for the dealer scum from the beginning for some of these reasons. I get to go to one show a year here in the northwest and that's the only one we have. I think it was made clear from the beginning that the purpose of this was to sell cards to members for what you have in them to recoup some ofyour money or pass on good deals. If you want to make money on cards that's your choice but there are plenty of other places for that we don't need to create another one. As for the dealers posting as long as they know whatthe purpose is hopefully they will list only stuff that could be moved in this forum. I do believe they would buy from the postings if they think they could make a buck off it that their job how else do they get new inventory they buy then sell. I have bought from several people so far so I would like it to continue but I don't want it to get into top dollar prices for cards or auctions then I would probably start losing interest. Rick Sent from my iPad > On Dec 12, 2014, at 8:32 PM, cardclctor@aol.com [OBC-DealerScum] > One of the great things about OBC is that everyone participates on their own level. Some people don't have access to any local shows and/or have never attended a National Convention. This server is a great way for them toget some of the great deals from the people that DO frequently attend shows and/or the National. How you determine what (if any) cards you send out as RAOK or what cards (if any) you'd want to buy/sell on here is entirely upto you... and your budget (if any). > Sure it'd be great walking into a show the day after you hit Powerball and buying up all the OBC grade bargains and sending them out as RAOK... that's probably not going to happen (especially for me, as I haven't had a bet in four years now). Spend whatever you're comfortable with on RAOK - if that's zero, I'm not going to chastise you or think any less of you just because you're not spending the same amount or percentage that I'M comfortablewith. Everybody's situation is different - everybody's collections are different. I shouldn't expect someone who needs 10,000 cards to finish their Topps run to value, say, some 1955 high numbers the same as someone who has finished the run and is now working on variations, upgrades and second sets. When I first joined OBC, I sent out a lot of 52 and 53 Topps because I was "never going to work on *those* sets". Then my perception changed when I finally broke down and started the sets. Then it changed again to the pointI'm at now, where if I see any commons for a couple bucks each (or high numbers for $25-30), I'm going to buy them, even though I don't need them - Iknow I can pass them along to someone who does need them at my cost - or make someone's day for just a couple bucks... or whatever I feel comfortablewith at the time. I think I've rambled on long enough. Thanks for reading, > Ken M > In a message dated 12/12/2014 12:26:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com > Where do I get the RAOK cards I send out? The same place everyone else does, I buy them! Sometimes I=E2=99ll buy a card for a specific OBC RAOK, many times I see a great deal on a card or a group of cards and I=E2=99ll just buy them knowing I can send them out RAOK. But I always check to seeif these are upgrades to what I already have in my collection (guru upgrades?). Sometimes I purchase a lot or collection of cards knowing I need some, and knowing that I=E2=99ll be able to send the extras out RAOK. So formany of us (all of us?) these are the cards in our dupes box, and these are the cards that are traded (via RAOK) within OBC, cards we have recently purchased! > The only thing wrong with this, is that we all have a limit on how much money we can spend on baseball cards. And I have left MANY bargains behind because I simply can=E2=99t afford to buy everything and send them outRAOK. So I think Dealer Scum might be a way to help each other out. Last month at our local show there was a part time dealer set up who had a huge selection of 1960s star cards for sale at a great price. But I had already spent most of what I had budgeted, and I could only purchase one card to send out RAOK. The card I bought was a 1966 Topps Pete Rose beautiful condition for $5. Well this card never made it to RAOK because someone else at the show offered me $10 for it and I sold it to him LOL! > I=E2=99ve never sold a card on the Dealer Scum server, and I don=E2=99t know if I ever will. But last month at our local show I could have bought $200 worth of beautiful cheap 1960 star cards and put them up on the Dealer Scum server for what I paid for them. I don=E2=99t go over my budget and I pass on the good deals to OBC members who would gladly pay $5 for a1966 Topps Pete Rose card. > I think one thing we need to be careful of, is to remember the foundationof OBC, trading through RAOK! And I=E2=99ve seen this modeled by the guys who have posted cards for sale here on the dealer-scum server. Sure theyare selling some cards, but I=E2=99ve also seen their name mentioned onthe =E2=9CThanks Server=E2=9D for a RAOK, and I=E2=99ve also seenthem post Waiver Wire cards on the =E2=9CRamblings Server=E2=9D. > Guru ================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 21:57:43 -0500 To: OBC-Dealerscum@yahoogroups.com Subject: 1961 Topps near set, 77/78/79 sets From: Rob Bessette Hi all, I have some large sets for sale including a near complete 1961 Topps set. Also complete sets from 77. 78, and 79 1977 EX ($100) 1978 EXMT/NM ($100) 1979 NM ($125) Take all three for $300 77 and 78 have a couple of stragglers that need to be upgraded, but not many (maybe 10 per set). All the stars are in good shape. Here is the info on the 61 near set. Looking for $1500 A near complete set of the super tough 1961 Topps series. Only missing 25 cards. Average condition is low EX. Hardly any creases and lots of sharp corners. Includes lots of tough high numbers and stars! Missing cards are... 35 Ron Santo 44 AL Home Run Leaders Mantle/Maris/Colav 344 Sandy Koufax 388 Roberto Clemente 417 Juan Marichal 428 Ray Barker 472 Yogi Berra MVP 480 Roy Campanella MVP 498 Ray Herbert 528 Pedro Ramos 541 Rollie Sheldon 543 Roger Craig 549 Hal R. Smith 563 Bob Cerv 566 Paul Richards AS 571 Bill Mazeroski AS 572 Brooks Robinson AS 573 Ken Boyer AS 575 Ernie Banks AS 576 Roger Maris AS 578 Mickey Mantle AS 579 Willie Mays AS 580 Al Kaline AS 581 Frank Robinson AS 586 Whitey Ford AS ================= To: rick.lyons22@yahoo.com, cardclctor@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:39:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] For Sale vs. RAOK From: mikesportsfan@aol.com I finally had a chance to read through most of this thread tonite. As for allowing the dealers to post cards, I do not see this as an issue. How do we restrict them from purchasing cards, is to let everyone know that is a rule, except for possibly from other dealers. Anyone posting should know who is a member and who is a dealer. If contacted by a dealer to purchase a card you list, just do not sell it to them. We have no obligation to sell to them. If for some reason no one else contacts the seller and a dealer does, go ahead and sell it to them. I do not think a liaison is needed or to make this difficult. Mike Rich -----Original Message----- From: Rick rick.lyons22@yahoo.com [OBC-DealerScum] To: cardclctor Cc: obc-dealerscum Sent: Sat, Dec 13, 2014 10:44 am Subject: Re: [OBC-DealerScum] For Sale vs. RAOK I was for the dealer scum from the beginning for some of these reasons. I get to go to one show a year here in the northwest and that's the only one we have. I think it was made clear from the beginning that the purpose of this was to sell cards to members for what you have in them to recoup some ofyour money or pass on good deals. If you want to make money on cards that's your choice but there are plenty of other places for that we don't need to create another one. As for the dealers posting as long as they know whatthe purpose is hopefully they will list only stuff that could be moved in this forum. I do believe they would buy from the postings if they think they could make a buck off it that their job how else do they get new inventory they buy then sell. I have bought from several people so far so I would like it to continue but I don't want it to get into top dollar prices for cards or auctions then I would probably start losing interest. Rick Sent from my iPad On Dec 12, 2014, at 8:32 PM, cardclctor@aol.com [OBC-DealerScum] One of the great things about OBC is that everyone participates on their own level. Some people don't have access to any local shows and/or have never attended a National Convention. This server is a great way for them to get some of the great deals from the people that DO frequently attend shows and/or the National. How you determine what (if any) cards you send out as RAOK or what cards (if any) you'd want to buy/sell on here is entirely up to you... and your budget (if any). Sure it'd be great walking into a show the day after you hit Powerball and buying up all the OBC grade bargains and sending them out as RAOK... that's probably not going to happen (especially for me, as I haven't had a bet in four years now). Spend whatever you're comfortable with on RAOK - if that's zero, I'm not going to chastise you or think any less of you just because you're not spending the same amount or percentage that I'M comfortable with. Everybody's situation is different - everybody's collections are different. I shouldn't expect someone who needs 10,000 cards to finish their Topps run to value, say, some 1955 high numbers the same as someone who has finished the run and is now working on variations, upgrades and second sets. When I first joined OBC, I sent out a lot of 52 and 53 Topps because I was "never going to work on *those* sets". Then my perception changed when I finally broke down and started the sets. Then it changed again to the point I'm at now, where if I see any commons for a couple bucks each (or high numbers for $25-30), I'm going to buy them, even though I don't need them - I know I can pass them along to someone who does need them at my cost - or make someone's day for just a couple bucks... or whatever I feel comfortable with at the time. I think I've rambled on long enough. Thanks for reading, Ken M In a message dated 12/12/2014 12:26:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, OBC-DealerScum-noreply@yahoogroups.com Where do I get the RAOK cards I send out? The same place everyone else does, I buy them! Sometimes I=E2=99ll buy a card for a specific OBC RAOK, many times I see a great deal on a card or a group of cards and I=E2=99ll just buy them knowing I can send them out RAOK. But I always check to see if these are upgrades to what I already have in my collection (guru upgrades?). Sometimes I purchase a lot or collection of cards knowing Ineed some, and knowing that I=E2=99ll be able to send the extras out RAOK. So for many of us (all of us?) these are the cards in our dupes box, and these are the cards that are traded (via RAOK) within OBC, cards wehave recently purchased! The only thing wrong with this, is that we all have a limit on how much money we can spend on baseball cards. And I have left MANY bargains behindbecause I simply can=E2=99t afford to buy everything and send them out RAOK. So I think Dealer Scum might be a way to help each other out. Last month at our local show there was a part time dealer set up who had a huge selection of 1960s star cards for sale at a great price. But I had already spent most of what I had budgeted, and I could only purchase one card to send out RAOK. The card I bought was a 1966 Topps Pete Rose beautiful condition for $5. Well this card never made it to RAOK because someoneelse at the show offered me $10 for it and I sold it to him LOL! I=E2=99ve never sold a card on the Dealer Scum server, and I don=E2=99t know if I ever will. But last month at our local show I could have bought $200 worth of beautiful cheap 1960 star cards and put them up on the Dealer Scum server for what I paid for them. I don=E2=99t go over mybudget and I pass on the good deals to OBC members who would gladly pay $5 for a 1966 Topps Pete Rose card. I think one thing we need to be careful of, is to remember the foundationof OBC, trading through RAOK! And I=E2=99ve seen this modeled by the guys who have posted cards for sale here on the dealer-scum server. Sure they are selling some cards, but I=E2=99ve also seen their name mentioned on the =E2=9CThanks Server=E2=9D for a RAOK, and I=E2=99ve also seen them post Waiver Wire cards on the =E2=9CRamblings Server=E2=9D. ================= Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 19:05:32 +0000 (UTC) To: OBC-DealerScum Subject: 58 T206s still available for sale. From: Jim Thayer Hey guys, I still have 58 T206s available, and I'd love to see these go before the new year. I'll include a few scans in this e-mail as well. I havenow officially scanned all fronts AND backs of each card, so feel free to chime in. All prices below include shipping. LMK! Thanks! | Card | Condition | Listing Price | | t206 Barry Sov350 | | $25.00 | | t206 Beck PB | | $24.00 | | t206 Bergen Batting EPDG | SGC 20 | $50.00 | | t206 Bergen Sov460 | | $22.00 | | t206 Bescher Sov350 | | $26.00 | | t206 Bresnahan Bat SC350 - 30 | | $90.00 | | t206 Burns Sov350 | SGC 30 | $58.00 | | t206 Chase Blue Portrait P350-460 - 25 | | $38.00 | | t206 Clarke Bat SC 150 - 30 | | $45.00 | | t206 Clarke Portrait SC150 - 30 | | $62.00 | | t206 Clarke Portrait SC150 - 30 | SGC 30 | $95.00 | | t206 Clarke Portrait Sovereign150 | | $90.00 | | t206 Cravath PB | SGC 30 | $45.00 | | t206 Criss Sov350 | PSA 3 | $48.00 | | t206 Davis H. Davis on Front Hindu | SGC 30 | $375.00 | | t206 Devore Double Factory! SC 350-460 - 42 & 30 | | $35.00 | | t206 Doc White Portrait Hindu | SGC 10 | $175.00 | | t206 Donlin Sov150 | | $19.00 | | t206 Duffy Batting Tolstoi | PSA 2 | $200.00 | | t206 Easterly Sov350 | | $35.00 | | t206 F. Smith Sov150 | | $38.00 | | t206 Gasper Tolstoi | | $28.00 | | t206 Griffith Portrait SC350 - 25 | SGC 30 | $90.00 | | t206 Griffith SC350-460 - 42 | | $30.00 | | t206 Hemphill Sov150 | | $26.00 | | t206 Huggins Hands On Mouth P350 - 25 | | $22.00 | | t206 Huggins Portrait P350 - 25 | | $90.00 | | t206 Jennings PB | | $45.00 | | t206 Keeler Portrait P150 - 25 | | $80.00 | | t206 Kelley P350 - 25 | | $35.00 | | t206 Kleinow Catching Sov350 Green Apple | | $32.00 | | t206 Lajoie Portrait P150 - 25 | SGC 40 | $350.00 | | t206 Mathewson Portrait P150 - 25 | | $280.00 | | t206 McElveen P350 - 25 | | $30.00 | | t206 McGinnity Throwing P350 - 25 | | $70.00 | | t206 McGinnity Throwing P350 - 25 | | $65.00 | | t206 McGraw Finger In Air SC350 - 30 | | $55.00 | | t206 McGraw Finger P150 | With another t206 glued to the back | $29.00 | | t206 McGraw Glove on Hip Sovereign460 | | $85.00 | | t206 McGraw Hat On P350-460 - 25 | =E2=9CWilliam Born=E2=9D | $90.00 | t206 McGraw Hat On SC350-460 - 30 | Printer=E2=99s Mark | $90.00 | | t206 Merkle SC350-460 - 30 | | $36.00 | | t206 Milligan Sov350 | | $36.00 | | t206 Myers Fielding P350 - 25 | SGC 30 - Name at Top and Bottom | $45.00 | | t206 Pastorius Sov150 | | $22.00 | | t206 Rhoades Tolstoi | | $55.00 | | t206 Ritchey Sov150 | | $25.00 | | t206 Ritter AB350 - 25 | | $39.00 | | t206 Sheckard P150 - 25 | | $28.00 | | t206 Street Catching P350 - 25 | SGC 45 | $55.00 | | t206 Sweeney Tolstoi | | $40.00 | | t206 Waddell Throwing P150 - 25 | | $34.00 | | t206 Wallace Portrait SC150 - 30 | | $60.00 | | t206 Walsh Portrait P350 - 25 | PSA 3(MK) | $125.00 | | t206 White Sov350 Green Apple | | $24.00 | | t206 Wilhelm Batting SC350 - 30 | BVG 3.5 | $49.00 | | t206 Wilhelm P150 - 25 | | $40.00 | | t206 Willis w/ Bat P350 - 25 | | $90.00 |